for the case of AK-74. Spetsnaz, initially did not use AK-74 for 2 reasons: 1. The AK-74 at the start of its production did not have the sub-sonic ammunition needed by special forces to carry out their missions. 2. Because the Soviet enemy, namely the Mujaheeden, used AK-47/AKM, for special forces who would carry out missions behind enemy lines, it would be better to use AKM/AKMS which use the same magazine and ammunition as the enemy, so they can use enemy ammunition, if their initial ammunition supply runs out.
Couple reasons for that. One was so they can use the existing PBS-1 suppressor thst works well for 7.62 but not so well with 5.45. Second, Spetnaz operate covertly behind enemy lines with no guaranteed logisticsl backup for resupply. Meaning they have to scavenge the enemys weapons and ammo. The mujahadeen use 7.62 ammo for their AKMs. Spetznaz can simply pick them up from killed enemies.
The burst mode was a ridiculous addition. I also never understood why the gas tube was permanently welded to the rifle. This is a nightmare for cleaning the rifle, especially if using corrosive ammunition.
AN-94 was better and had undergone full USSR testing, which used to be hardcore, unlike Russian. AN-94 was also ready to be produced. They added 2-burst to eliminate talk that AN-94 can do things AK-12 can’t. “See, we also have 2-burst! Your AN-94 ain’t shit”. And even if AK-12’s burst is crap, that’s how logic of Russian Corruption works.
@@CallOfCutie69 Both are correct. If I was in Russian procurement and politics weren't a thing I would have just adopted something akin to an ACR or an MCX but in 5.45. The AK isn't horrible as a platform but there are many ways to improve the design.
@@CallOfCutie69 As an infantry rifle? Fuck nah lmao. Grunts will always find a way to break things. I don't care if they made the AN-94 never need cleaning, never jam, and never need to be taken apart, grunts will still find a way to lose half those little parts. IMO spending the money just making better triggers and just firing semi auto is far easier. Especially when it ruins the entire easy to use safety
@BadBomb555 to start the Finns rear sight is soldier proof, rear flip. Two ranges and a third with the night sight. Not this adjustable ranges for meat that can neither read nor count. Every country tries to make their gear soldier proof, cause if it can be broken it will be broken through sheer stupidity. Unless you're the US Marines, its just what they do. Take a Russian conscript and expect him to know how or have the capacity to learn how to work an adjustable peep sight is just asking to much.
Yeah but what about the child of an officer that was given a job! Won't you think of the useless zits of society you could be creating nothing jobs to waste money on?!
Yeah, I read a Russian soldier's opinion of the AK-12 on Telegram. He said his weapon of choice was a modernized AK-105 with zenitco handguard and red dot.
I remember examining an AK-12 at the "Army 2021" expo in Moscow a few month before the events in Ukraine unfolded. The instructor seemed to hate it; claimed the whole thing was wobbly (the stock and handguard especially) and that the picatinny mounts on the receiver cover were more of a gimmick as they weren't stable enough to reliably mount decent optics without having to readjust them after removing the cover to clean the weapon, for instance. The picatinny rails on the handguard were useless for mounting anything besides flashlights. When the gun first came out, the military hated it and called it "an attempt to turn the good old Kalashnikov into an "M-series" (slang for Western assault rifles)". I think politics were largely to blame as the Izhmash plant (now the Kalashnikov concern) faced bankruptcy in the early 2010s, and the government basically kept them afloat until they got their business model in order by ordering batches of AK-12s. To be fair though, most of the concerns voiced by soldiers were addressed in the AK-12 rifles that were produced after 2023, but I still think the MoD should go with another rifle in the future (ideally an AEK-971/Kord derivative, or the AKV-521 if they insist on sticking with the Kalashnikov pattern).
@@Imperial_Lizardgirl you've got a problem with the term? I mean they are called a lot of things; SMO, war, invasion, conflict, crisis... plus the virtue-signalling terms much overused by Western talking heads and MSM.
It depends on which AK-12 he had experience with. For instance if he had original rifle that was introduced in 2018, then it was indeed not fully resolved. Criticism of a wobbly stock is a bit silly since it's impossible to make it perfectly stiff and at the same time easy to adjust. Handguard is only wobbly if someone had utterly destroyed the pin retention. SUre, one can DEFLECT the handguard with pressure, but how hard does one have to press? Initial top cover release was a bit of a problem since people needed to rotate the lever to be able to pull it out which wore the pin hole more, and also were not seating the cover fully forward and used the pin to "drive" it fully home, which added to the wear. Also if we look at the AK tangent sight, it also wobbles when shooting. Noone seems to complain. COncerns were about rifles made BEFORE 2023 you mean? Because 2023 rifle had made a lot of changes to address the issues you listing here. One thing about A545 KORD was that it needed a new production line set up, and rifle cost a LOT more than AK-12. In fact AK-12 uses a lot of original tooling that was used to make AK-74M. In making AK-12, they've kept manufacturing process changes to the minimum required. Just to be fair, the A545 KORD is worth 3 AK-12s, while giving a rather similar accuracy performance, both in single and in burst fire. Which is kudos to Kalashnikov. AKV_521 is a purely-civilian firearm, and it seems that Russians may not even send it into production, and Mr Vlasenko is no longer an employee of KK, so there is that.
@@Imperial_Lizardgirl well, the guy worked for (or with) the Sputnik news agency. Expecting him to call this _a war_ would be too much. Doesn't make his comment wrong in any way though.
All of these short comings were fixed with the gen 3. The rough list is this. They started using glass filled nylon for the plastic, stiffened the dust cover rail, redesigned the ergonomics completely based on soldier input, removed the burst, improved qc, and fixed various little problems like the fire selector going too far. Its widely used in the spetsnaz now, given that they were the ones who test the gen 3 first of course.
@@yarnickgoovaerts the AK200 is optics/accessory ready and covered with picatinny that actually holds zero. The AK74M may not have accessory mounts (with exception of dovetail optics mount) in factory configuration, but it can easily be outfitted with furniture that allows it.
@@yarnickgoovaerts No. the AK200 is based on the AK74M rifle, and uses the same barrel, bolt carrier, trunnion and handguard retention system. The main difference is the hinged dust cover that holds zero and a slightly different folding stock latch.
I think it’s just the fact that the older models already have a lot of parts kits to iron out and customize the weapon exactly to how the operator wants it. While the new guns are meant for the grunts with basic upgrades over the older standard issue rifle. The upgrade from akm to ak74 meant a lot less recoil for grunts due to the 5.45. While the upgrade from ak-74 to ak-12 meant grunts can now more easily add attachments/scopes to their rifles without having to go through the whole parts kits process. In due time the ak-12 will be completely ironed out and this early period will be regarded as the same as the problems the early ar-15 pattern of rifles had.
I heard that the older vision of the AK-12 was a lot different, but the government kept removing features until it became a normal AK with rails. But if that's the case, why don't they take the Zenitco alpha rails? It's already there, and it is high quality.
The early Zlobin prototypes were actually closer to the AK74M than the current AK12, and I would argue that's why they were better. The primary changes were in handling, like placement of the charging handle and selector switch, and rails were integrated without completely changing the handguard/gas tube/dust cover mounting. In other words, it didn't try "fixing" things that weren't broken to begin with, and focused on modernizing in ways that actually mattered. As for why they didn't just use zenitco? It's kind of a band-aid solution. It's all milled aluminum, and adding that weight on top of a rifle that's already significantly heavier than an AR adds up to a lot. This isn't just for people flexing on guntube, this is for soldiers who need to be able to walk for miles without rest carrying a full combat load.
Government didn't remove any features. AK-12 tested originally had all the good things, but only on paper. The safety-selector had too narrow a range of angles in which it worked, the position of it also was not comfortable. The charging handle was hitting peoples thumbs so they mostly left it on the right side, where it always is. Stock was weak and broke after a single GP-25 shot. Railed dust cover was full-length and had uneven thermal expansion and resultant POI shifts. Soft recoil was achieved by lightening the bolt carrier which caused it to be insufficiently robust for a service rifle. Also overall the rifle was not going to use ANY of the existing manufacturing base which would have required a full manufacturing "rearmament" of the factories which would have taken absolute ages to do and cost an utter bomb. Russian MOD simply said "NOPE" to the utterly undercooked weapon. Zenitco simply isn't big enough to make the required amounts of furniture at a sufficient speed. If you are aware of the Accuracy International rifle used by British MOD, it was designed and developed by just a 3-man workshop, which ended up having to sell the design to an established manufacturer for it to proceed: they simply didn't have the means to make them in required volume.
@@cherenkov_blue Original AK-12 was FAR from AK-74. There was no ability to interchange anything, they shared no parts and required a whole new production line. That AK-12 had spectacularly failed the trials on reliability. Also all the cool things were rather poorly implemented. For the full story, google Vladimir Onokoy story on AK-12. So no, it was not better than AK-12 that Russians ended up with. AK-12 today is ACTUALLY the AK-74 with reworked mounting of dust cover, new furniture and barrel.
*Back then* Soviet Army Soldier: Wow, we got those brand new AK-74’s I really love them! Soviet Spetsnaz Soldier: I hate it, prefer old AKM’s or AKMS’. *Now* Russian Army Soldier: Wow, we got those brand new AK-12’s I really love them! Russian Spetsnaz Operator: I hate it, prefer old AK-74M’s.
@@rocky-zx6kq No like he said it was true of everything from the first ak47 to the first AR15 they were literal dogshite when first issued. The free floating barrel and optics readiness is all the AKM platform needed the selector can be easily changed out the only real problem I see with the design is that gas ring.
This, it was basically not optimized, its kinks will be fixed in time making a cheaper but modern ak variant able to fit stuff on, it was never meant to be a elite specialized rifle
@@off6848The M16 wasn't even that bad. Bad ammunition and the troops thinking it didn't need to be cleaned where bigger problems than the rifle itself.
The current 3rd iteration of the AK-12 and AK-15 are pretty decent and most of the kinks have been ironed out and burst is gone from the fire control. The flimsy and shaky stock is gone and a solid folding stock with adjustable length of pull is fitted to 3rd generation rifles. Parts breakage and cracking is apparently fixed too. The major reason that special forces prefer to use the AK-74M and other 100 series rifles is that there is an abundance of after market parts for them. The AK-12 can also only use the suppressor that is designed for it as it fits on the muzzle break or the mount depending on which model. There are very few of them in circulation too. The 100 series rifles do not have this issue and there is a large choice of option to suppress them which is one of the main reasons they are preferred. The fixed gas tube is not really an issue as you can clean it fitted by opening the end of it. The handguard is still a small problem as it is not as solid as something like a Zenit Co B19 or B30 handguard but really it is only a small issue. It is fine for mounting a light or even a laser. You wont get the as solid zero hold on the laser but with most of the after market handguards you cant mount a GP-25 or GP-30
Your comment about many of the AK12's "innovations" being based on video game logic is funny and accurate. There's also a large historical precedent for it, particularly in American arms development. We've tested out crazy ideas like "what if every soldier carried a high-tech grenade launcher that was integrated into their rifle?" or "What if we increase hit probability by using burst-firing hypervelocity flechette rifles?", among many other ideas that were seen as stupid by anyone with actual combat experience. I think it's rather likely that this sort of weird experimentation was a motivating factor for Project Abakan, and later Project Ratnik in the wake of the AN94's failure.
Yes, I didn't even have to think about it. I have been following the military sphere and civilian shooting fashion for quite a long time. I look at this quick-release AK-12 mount and realize that someone was literally saying "We saw American special forces quickly put suppressors on their rifles, let's do something like that" or "Oh, they have a Magpul! It's super cool, let's make the same stocks" ))
@@casperarmsEveryone is chasing modularity because its a force multiplier. Russia seems to have dropped the ball on field testing while the west spend loads of money on it. Magpul is popular because its good and even the no-nonsense SOF guys are using it. Yes, the west tests some weird stuff because if it works then it might be a major advantage. All rifles with a grenade launcher sounds awesome if feasible. But it wasn't feasible so the project was dropped. Flechette ammo? You mean potentially lighter ammo with similar or better ballistics than a regular bullet? Great! Except it didn't pan out. Never trust the fudds who aren't willing to test and accept new technologies. They're the same fools that think the M14 is an actual good rifle and would have us re-adopt it as a standard rifle.
I heard western gun experts preaching these while calling AKs "inferior". I just never understood, why one has to adapt western standards that doesn't add functionality and doesn't fits towards the objective one is pursuing.
@@aniksamiurrahman6365 to some extent it's just pressure to "keep up". The AK74M is a reliable weapon that (as shown by its use by both sides in Ukraine) is perfectly viable in modern combat. But it's not the flashy new thing.
@@brainplay8060 There has to be a balance between crazy experimental innovation and a sense of realism. I mean come on, a laser targeted grenade launcher where each individual cartridge has a microchip in it? Ridiculous, and the XM25 grenade launcher derived from the project proves that the idea is infeasible even when scaled back. It's heavy, expensive, and unable to fire if the computer in the weapon itself or the ammunition malfunctions. In the meantime, the project cost millions that ultimately went nowhere (not to mention the XM8 that also got canned). No country has an infinite defense budget, not even the US.
The ak 12 is not a failure, it is good for what it was designed for. It was designed to give the standard soldier an ability to mount attachments easily and cheaper, especially thermo or night sight and suppressors, ak 12 is much lighter and cheaper than ak km. Also ak 12 is still evolving and it is stupid not to agree that it is modernised and standardised old school ak and this is why it’s good. Speznaz usually prefer something more customisable, but they usually don’t use their weapon for a long period of time because old school ak in furniture are heavy, but usual grunt will gladly take ak12 and forget all of the f@ckery with attachments on old school aks. So this video is based on more of a video game logic and he does not know how and why certain weapon choices are made. For government ak 12 is a major win in terms of supplies of attachments needed, because everything is standardised and they do not need to ask the soldiers what mount they use, and grunts do not complain all good for them)
Just the prototype of Zlobin was really a well-developed model in many ways, and he impressed many. But when even the fans saw the model of the AK-12 version of Dolganov (as far as I understand, he is the lead designer of the AK-12 version after Zlobin), people were simply disappointed
@@casperarms Zlobin's project was shit, no matter how you look at it. Zlobin's team had shooting athletes who strongly influenced the development of weapons. Do I need to explain how sports weapons differ from military ones? AK zlobin did not pass the state tests, which is not surprising. Its cost was too high. The receiver cover was very difficult to manufacture and cost as a separate rifle.
@Yevgeny_N It wasn't shit, it was just expensive. These are different things, and this is a question for those who talked about "fifth-generation weapons that are 2 times more effective than the AK-74," but in the end they just released a crappy tuned AK-74
@@casperarms Zlobin's AK-12 was shit! I repeat once again, he did not pass the state tests. During the tests, his bolt carrier broke. The 2016 AK-12 was also crap. But the soldiers praise the AK-12 of 2020. The AK-12 2023 changes took into account the experience of the war in Ukraine.
Some of the mentioned problems were fixed in later iterations: they get rid of 2-round burst, changed plastic of handguard, changed fire selector (you showed it)
I dont see how you can fuck up a ak but leave it to Russia they either make some of the best weapons or worst this one seems like it was made by a guy who plays cod all day
@@casperarmsBro if the information you present has been outdated for 2 YEARS IT IS NOT HATE. And it is publicly avalable. And ta "talk in full" argument is like mentionaing reliability isshues of the M16A1 when talking about the M16A4
To be fair, a free floating handguard isn't inherently bad for military use. Many militaries have shown that if you do it right it's there's pretty much no point in not having it. The Block II, URGI, MCX family, 716i, the KS1, and modern 416's that use free floated rails just to name a few have been exceptional rifles. But like you said the flexing is an issue. Any laser mounted to that will have no hope of holding a zero.
@@Led.... They used glass-filled polyamide for decades. AK-74 from mid-80s with plum furniture for instance is that. It shown to be a good material that was sufficiently rugged. The issue was that on AK-12 they didn't brace the mounting at the front, which is why it flexed as much as it did.
AK-74M is good, it works perfectly. Old things are more reliable cause they stood the test of time. No one should ever think that new stuff is always better.
The main reason is that 5.45x39 for the AK-74 is a small round that relies on hitting super fast to penetrate armor/cause larger wounds inside the body from pressure/frag. Mainly it was Spetsnaz or whatever other SOF equivalent they put in Afghanistan who disliked the 74, as they couldn't get subsonic rounds to use with suppressors. Remember, a suppressor doesn't do much without a bullet that's subsonic. Another benefit was that they probably had situations where they couldn't resupply for a bit, so being able to use the same 7.62x39 that their enemy's used in AK-47s/Ms and SKSs was probably a lifesaver
AKM is flimsier than milled but is still grunt-proof, i am sure everyone was happy to drop a kilo off their shoulders. AK-74 is better across the board but 5.45 subsonic flat out sucks and would suck even if the bullet was made out of DU. AK-12 is just sheer corruption and incompetence, worse in every respect than an AKS-74N with 200$ worth of aftermarket parts. I am almost thankful MTK doesn't see this.
@@scheie5268 He gave his blessing and the name is in his honor. Also he understands as good as anyone that when something is re-designed with new design decisions, they take time to iron out the kinks. For instance original AK-47 prototype was stamped and riveted, while what ended up being introduced to the Soviet Army was using milled receiver. AKM was a rather significant redesign of the AK. And there were many different design adjustments during the production. Same goes for AK-74. He understood that some things need to be tested in real combat to be understood that what works on paper and in peace time, is useless in war. For instance Russian military had adopted many small, at first insignificant things, while utterly removing and retiring things that appeared to be very promising as a result of experience in Syria. Generals often aren't convinced by new stuff until war happens, people die, troops crack the shits to the extent large enough for higher-ups to finally take notice, and ONLY THEN does the fat overweight machine that is military top brass gets its ass moving about changing things. And even then they don't introduce everything soldiers in the trenches ask for.
I believe they addressed all of the issues in the latest gen. But, are the calibers on the 12, 15 and 19 interchangeable now that they're using the same parts? That would be pretty cool.
As one friend of mine in Ukranian Army, who had a chance to hold a trophy AK-12, once said, "AK-12 is a shitty AK-74, but with cheap chineese accessories". For the record, he prefers AK over AR.
@@grindcoreninja6527 Well, AK does achieve it's goals -- what's the sence of optics in 100m warfare? Iron sights are enough for 100m. 2nd reason, is more regional -- in Ukraine we have 5.45mm ammo cases literally in any trench. If you are in a assault squad and you happen to have an AR-platform riffle -- you have only ammo, that you have on yourself. If you have 10 mags and some ammo boxes in your bagpack -- this is your only ammo. But with 5.45 you can easily use friendly or Russian mags.
there's so much features the ak 12 could've taken concept and design from already proven from working platform altho the reason to make more ak 12 and not modernize remaining ak 74 was due to both keeping the military industry alive and getting newer rifles they could've made it more well thought out. the dust cover could've been based on the krinkov ( even zenitco had a dust cover mount similar in concept) and the hand guard could've been torx screw mounted for extra stability, and the stock could've been any ar15 buffer tube stock that is common even in Russia.
Unpopular opinion but I think the outdated AKs like the AK47s or AKM are the best because they’re more powerful and durable, other than the 74s and AK 100 variants.
Objectively false. AK47 had terrible trigger reliability isshues and it was expensive to produce. The AKM solved thoes problems but it still used an unnecesarely powerfull bullet and had excessive recoil
@@LovelyHavocFor the same reasons the US switched to 556 -The same amount of ammo takes less space is lighter and cheaper to make. -The bullet is faster so AP variants penetrate more easily armor and they are more accurate -The bullet has a smaller chance to kill so by shooting 1 soldier you take out of the fight 2 ore more because he will need medical attention or med evac. Wich leads me to my 4th point -Less shot soldiers will die so after the war economies will be less affected by the sharp drop in the workforce
Its not more powerful though the 7.62 was similar ballistics to .300bo a dogshite cartridge. 5.45 is a laser under 200 yards and tumbles better than 5.56 go look at any gel wound channel demonstrations
Another reason why AK74 or AKM is preferred because there are vast quantities of after market parts, some cheap, some premium but definitely better quality than the standard mil-spec. SOF units typically can buy or use their own if required. But AK12 is new and the barrel change means it is very difficult to get after market suppressors too.
great video man, i have a question about the bayonets so the AK-74M has a standard bayonet thread or mount like those in m16s and the ak-12s has a clip on bayonet mount? like those in british rifles?
What do you think AK-12 is? If you look at it, it's same AK-74 at the core and in principle. It was simply de-designed in different areas to be able to mount optics and accessories more securely and from the factory floor. It also had to satisfy military WEIGHT requirements. AK-200 didn't, nor did KM-AK kit which made AK-74 bloat beyond military weight requirements. Original 2016 AK-12 used the leftover KM-AK grips and stocks that military refused to use so as not to waste them.
@@stavros6969 Russia really shot themselves in the foot with this ak-12 program. If in the end the AK-12, which they have been developing for almost 8 years (development started in 2010 & adopted in 2018), only produces an AK with burst fire which is not at all as reliable as its predecessor, the AK-74. If this is the case, it is better from the start that they just adopt the AK-KM program (AK-74, with additional Picitany rail accessories from either Zenitco or Kalashnikov Consern) and avoid failure and embarrassment.
The idea of improving service rifles with a small third-party parts manufacturer with low supply capacity is only useful on a small scale of use, such as for special forces. Rifles for conventional units are mass-produced and specifications must be standardized. Cost reduction is also required.
The Russians had it right the first time! They must not be familiar with that old saying, if it ain't broke,don't fix it! Some people can't resist trying to reinvent the wheel!
So true, even if the newest 2023 AK12 is a little bit better, this rifle is SHIT. I prefer to take a classic Plum AK74 rather than the AK12! Verygood content, as always
@@casperarms The AK74 is a classic, i have an Izmash AK74 (with no side rail) with plum furnitures and some Molto RPK74 mags and it’s so nice to shoot with, so simple, so effective, i love it! I shoot with iron sight only, and it’s quite easy to make hits at 300m with the classic "belt buckle" method, once again it’s simple, effective nothing fancy just the essential. I have nothing agasint modernised AK’s but i don’t feel the need for a Red Dot or a PERST-4, sometimes a light installed on a barrel mount I really don’t know why Kalashnikov Concern did it, so much design flaws. I shot the AK12 civilian version (AK TR3) and i remember that the rear sight was moving side to side, (and the peep sight was too small) the fire selector was a pain to move, the stock was so big, so heavy, the handguard was moving a little bit, the quality of the polymer was poor, and clean the rifle at the end of the day...pain in the ass, especially the gas tube area. When i see the excellent quality of manufacturing on my AK's (AK74 with plum furnitures/AKS74U/AK74 with wood furnitures) which were made more than 20 years ago, i don’t understand why Kalashnikov Concern did this AK12 with this poor general quality. I had a FAMAS during my military service, not the same rifle of course because it’s a bullpup, but so accurate, compact, it had some design flaws like all assault rifles but it’s a very cool gun, more original than our new HK416F in service in the French Army now ; very effective, modular (but very heavy for what it is!) but...boring, so boring :/ I hope you enjoyed your AK during your service ;)
@@Droid_Behaviour you must have been born brainless. Rifle wasn't broke, but it was no longer catering to ever-changing military requirements. AK-12 was the response to those requirements. Initially an under-developed response. War evolved it. It's good now. Oh and at the core it's still the same design: operating system was unchanged, bolt carrier, locking surfaces, gas system is still the same as it was designed in 1974. What changed was furniture and its mounting. What is being improved is manufacturing process, which is outside the design of the original weapon. AK-74M was suffering from defects in the barrel chroming process for many years, just so you know
The AK12 has almost a west European or northern European rifle design.Having a front sight post like Finnish/Valmet RK62(or Israeli Galil)and rear peep sight towards the end of receiver cover.And also the side foldable stock has a western appearance.But also that new Chinese assault rifle,QBZ 191,has a US or western European appearance.
The Ak-12 was more or less the cheaper options as zennit parts are more expensive and the Ak74 is pretty worn, with worn barrels, peened bolts and worn out springs being an issue to replacement. Mass producing a new rifle makes sense, it's just they went with the Ak-12 as it was a lot cheaper than trying to mass issue Aek-971's or AN-94's or the like. Even the Ak-100 series.
Kinda like spetnaz units in the afghan war. They didnt like the 74, and prefered AKMs, most likely due to blending in , but probably what theyve trained and familiarized with
From what I understand too the ak-12 is super hard to suppress and from what I know of Russian special forces is that they love suppressed rifle. To the point where they carried ak-ms into combat with a 74 just so they could have a suppressed rifle in Afghanistan.
Fun fact, spetsnaz are so undertrained with there rifle, there was this green beret that was in Africa with them, and had a shooting competition for fun, and they didn’t even know how to zero there rifle
@@tanaziolopez1936 the green beret in Africa is My grand father and told me when he went to the range with them, that’s just eye witness, however you can try to find some articles but idk if there is any
I see soldiers, on both sides, carry 3-4 AKs in the trenches since they do not handle the mud very well. Switching from one rifle to the next as they jam. 🤠
I think part of the annoyance with the AK 12 comes from the fact that everything the AK 12 was hoping to do was already done by other modernization kits that could be attached to a standard AK74M, and can do them better and cheaper, with perhaps the only exception being the weight
As a tarkov guy i can agree with spetsnaz. Ak 12 is trash, espessially that dioptr sight which is useless when you shooting at moving targets. Dioptr is good for long ranges, but for long ranges you need a scope and not this shit. Standart ак 74 ironsights are perfect for close combat.
IMHO, China actually have much better new Assault Rifle. because, you can see, the upgrade that QBZ191 bring, over it's predessor actually working, and feedback from the operator actually positive.
QBZ-191 did suffered some issues initially but so far it seems fine, also it's a new design and not QBZ-03 with changes rather than the AK-12 half-assed "new"
@@fedrickosamuelshidarta970 I agree. The QBZ191 is not innovative but just combines the best of all rifles into one package. Gun innovation has plateaued I think.
All those 'problems' are workable fixes, I don't see any show stoppers. Every new firearm is a work-in-process and will have 'bugs' they need to work out. The next version of the AK-12 will be better.
I mean, There's already an M (modernized) and an M-1 version, and he said they still have most of those problems. Although i don't think a non removable muzzle device would be a big problem for an avarage infantry grunt, and on the M-1 version they removed the two round burst that was causing problems. But when you compare to the fact that the first AK was immediately pretty much perfect, the AK-12 needing 2 modernizations in a single decade, or less, is pretty crazy. I blame capitalism. The original AK was designed by a working class soldier in the Soviet Union in a time when it was still a properly communist country, who was attempting to fix what he deemed a major problem in his country's military for the good of his brothers in arms in a country that was founded that way, while the AK-12 was designed by a for-profit corporation in a capitalist dictatorship
When you find out that the plastic handguard splits and the metal front sight breaks, you realize that this is not just a mistake. In a country where they learned how to make unkillable weapons half a century ago, such failures are something beyond the bounds
@@casperarmssame as Sig Sauer and their new pistol came out for the US, so his point still stands. Doesnt matter if you are a reknown manufacturer, errors are bound to happen
They should have done what the Soviets intended to do, plastic top cover and a rail over the top, that could've been done pinning the rail on the trunnions, other than that the Galil ACE reciprocating dust cover would be better than the old one too.
In the 2000's when the US Army wanted a more 'modern' rifle, we explored new guns entirely and the closest to adoption, the XM8, was deemed not worth it...but then we just got SOPMOD Block upgrades (block 1, block 2, etc...) that were basically just furniture/rail upgrades and completely succeeded in modernization. They were first used by spec ops, proven to be grunt proof, and then applied to standard rifles. Russia already got EXACTLY the same option, up to the point of years of proven use by spec ops with Zenitco's kits, and they are clearly superior to the AK12 (just like an M4 SOPMOD was superior to an XM8 for example). Should have just got Zenitco kits for everyone, no need for decades of separate R n D
the special forces across the world do this, when the M9 was distributed the Special forces kept the M1911. they also dont like it when infantry uses the same guns as them.
Like if they have choice or much to choose from. AK-74 still dominant by the numbers, while seeing a platoon of AK-12 riflemen would be like seeing a unicorn. SOF need fancy things and its common, infantry is not lucky in that matter. AK105, AK200 with custom modifications are likely to be operated by SOF. It's not like they can't modify the 74, but its easier with all the factory railings.
The ak12 looks good on paper to keep up with the modularity of the ar platform but in doing so the ak loses what makes it great, its simplicity and easy maintenance, how ever after market zentico parts have been used for years by russuan special forces and perhaps some of those parts should be prioritized especially for optics mounting weapon lights, lazers, ect.
Ak12 shouldn't exist, their is already better option than it i.e. modernized AK74M and the whole family Ak10x the final and one of the greatest homologation of AK, created by Mikhail Kalashnikov. The whole AK10x is eventually modernized like AK74M and is offered as AK20x. If they wanted to go for a new design they could have gone for AEK family, MA dragnov derivative or limited service A-91/ADS system. All three of them bring something new to the table. Even their own civilian offering AKV521 is much better.
Same in WW2 where germans Loved pph41s because of their reliability and massive drum and the russians loved mp40s because of their compact size and ergonomics. I say the average soldier doesnt care about tactical advantage and practicality, atleast with conscripts like in Ukraine. They just think :"New rifle is good" and then use it.
@@iammrbadguy9706No they absolutely care about tactical advantage and practicality. Unless they never see any other weapon then they might not think about it. Once they've used western weapons, understand they're reliable, and offer tactical advantages, they all scramble to get their hands on them. There is a reason why the AK-74 is continually dumped by Ukrainian troops when they can swap out for M16 pattern rifles. There's plenty of ammo and parts for the 74's but few want them unless its all they can get. Ukraine has been a big eye opener and killed a few sacred cows/myths about the AK weapons.
You can't imagine how much they love Western modernization. Especially in the special forces. They never talk about it directly, but they are very jealous of the West and the technologies that the West has. Fans of the old AK without tuning are looked at as ancient people. They usually promote the theme that "we don't need anything modern, because our fathers and grandfathers fought without it". Most thinking people have nothing but laughter and a desire to get away from these crazy people
Most of the "improvements" on the AK12 were Good Idea Fairy things that were poorly executed. For example, free floaring handguards with mount options (Picatinny rail, MLok, etc.) are excellent for mounting accessories, especially ones youbwant to retain zero (like, say, IR frequency laser modules for use with night vision goggles), but only if they are *rigid* . If you can't get them rigid, you might as well have retained the older system with them mounted to the barrel group - your zero shift will still be about the same, but at least rhey wont break. The 2 round burst *sounds* like a good idea, but rhe reason they work for the AN94 and the HK G11 was those rifles fire the burst rate at an insanely high cyclic rate with an action that reciprocstes within a chassis, so both rounds exit before the recoil from the first shot is transmitted to the soldier. Even then, the value of "hyperfire" is debateable. With the AK12's rate of fire, it's not debateable - it's just a stupid idea to add a burst mechanism, that complicates rhe mechansim withiutnoffering any advantage. And in the case of the AK12, as you point out, the additional swing of the selector lever required to get to semiautomatic is bad. The non-removeable gas tube with the gap you cannot get into to clean is absolutely unacceptable in a combat rifle, *particularly* one where most of rhe ammunition stocks for the military is still corrosive primed - that's a failure point that will deadline rifles very quickly, and likelt cause the entire rifle to have to be replaced when corrosion gets unsafe. I understand why they wanted a QD muzzle device - to enable easy transition to suppressors and such, in keeping with the idea that they will become more commonly used in the near term. However, wither do it well (as other designers, including on the AN94, have done, as well as various Western suppressor companies) or just stick with the proven AK74 muzzle mount system - it's slower than a good bayonet mount, sure, bht its also way better overall than a poor bayonet mount system. All in all, id have to say rhe AK12 was (as we say in American baseball) "a swing and a miss", much like the US M14, rhe initial batches of US M16s in Vietnam, the UK L85, or the first generation AK rifles (the original stamped ones before the milled receivers or stamped AKM). (Not anywhere near as bad as the Indian INSAS rifle, but that is faint praise indeed. 😂 ) Now, not everything is horrible about rhe AK12. Provided it holds zero (especially after repeated disassembly of the dust cover for cleaning), the rear sight looks like a definate improvement. From what I understand, the new muzzle device is better than the AK74 muzzle device. But other than that, the AK74M is superior. [Edit to add - using the collapseable "M4 style" stock ia an improvement, too. But that is probably the *easiest* AK12 upgrade to backfit to existing AK74 rifles.]
Also the more complex iron sights are fairly useless, most modern armies provide their soldiers with optics. The marines still train iron sight shooting as a backup, but every marine gets a sight, they don't really use the iron sights anymore. Now considering that the Spetsnaz is basically the russian equivalent of the SEALs I seriously doubt they care about the iron sights, they all use optics and in case they wan't iron sights they'll prly just mount a separate set at an angle as backup
what can I say really. People who recently joined the army calmly fight with the AK12, and those who served for several years with the AK74 prefer it. A year ago, I, together with a friend who is 4 years younger than me, met the AK12, I didn’t like it much, but on the contrary, he liked the AK12 more than the AK74 and M4.
AN-94 is an engineering masterpiece and maintenance nightmare. The AEK counter-weight recoil system just can't be made to last and it does add weight. 6mm sounds perfect before you think about it as a FOURTH assault rifle cartridge in the system. From a blank slate i'd probably nominate AM (that AR-18esque Dragunov's avtomat they dug out recently) in 6x41 and 9x39.
@@Klovaneer Who told you that A545 balanced gas system doesn't last? Who said that it can't be made to last? Does it add weight? For sure, that's how it's designed to work. If you REMOVE weight from bolt carrier you'll ruin the reliability. A545 rifle only recently entered production, and it's being made for Special Forces issue. AM-17 does exist in full-length version, but noone is going to replace AK-12 with it. 6.02x41 is a cartridge that may well replace both 5.45 and 7.62.
Why is Russia so die hard on trying to modernize the AK platform rather than just making a new modern rifle from the ground up, or outsourcing the manufacture to companies willing to bid on a service weapon contract?
Why is the US so die hard on trying to modernize the AR-15 platform all the time instead of just making a new modern rifle from the ground up? Don't fix what ain't broken
@ghilliem.g.5824 difference is the AR takes very nicely to modernizing. The AK doesn't and they've been struggling with it since the inception of modern accessories. As it stands now the AR is a modern rifle and the AK is a gun pretending to be one.
decades of infrastructure and spare parts accumulation. Same reason the Prototype AK12 had a last round bolt hold open and release yet it was one of the first things cut, it prevented backwards compatability with the 40 years of AK74 mags that have been accumulateing in warehouses every day since the 70s
@@BreadPittAAAAHHHH also true I didn't mean sorry should have clarified more well rare the spec ops still do use the an 94 being like it a lot but a very small amount use them but you are correct ak 100s are more out there and very popular version of those like the contractor assault rifle aka the ak 107 is very popular amoung pmcs and special forces widely used but not sure the numbers
The AK-200 would have been the ideal AK-12 and retain more commonality with the AK-74M (which is really the surrogate AK-100). The 2-shot burst is useless, and the only real change that the AK-200M (yes, they could do more) is improve the fire selector, and perhaps put the charging handle on the left side (a la AKV-521) to ensure extra protection, but beyond that, and perhaps the foregrip there is no real need to innovate the AK-200-design since it already has the right rails.
To those who want the quicker answer, AK-12 has bad quality, but it is standard issue so the army is forced into using it, AK-74 is good quality, but isn't standard issue, so only special forces such as Spetsnaz can get their hands on it
Short answer: because the army gets what’s new and the grunts tested out in the fields. Special forces already know how the older models work and they don’t want to be bothered with the guess work of a new model. Same happened with the AK74 , special forces hated it and kept using AKMs while the Soviet army and the paratroopers were all given AK74s in Afghanistan
What russian specnaz are you specifically talking about? There are at least 6 different departments that have them and some of them have different branches of specnaz, with specific tasks. And the army also has its own branch of specnaz...
Reminds me of the fact that When AK74 was adopted, Spetsnaz continued using AKMs for some time.
Well that was due to the ammo availability
for the case of AK-74. Spetsnaz, initially did not use AK-74 for 2 reasons:
1. The AK-74 at the start of its production did not have the sub-sonic ammunition needed by special forces to carry out their missions.
2. Because the Soviet enemy, namely the Mujaheeden, used AK-47/AKM, for special forces who would carry out missions behind enemy lines, it would be better to use AKM/AKMS which use the same magazine and ammunition as the enemy, so they can use enemy ammunition, if their initial ammunition supply runs out.
Only the AK-74 didn't have such dumb flaws
Couple reasons for that. One was so they can use the existing PBS-1 suppressor thst works well for 7.62 but not so well with 5.45. Second, Spetnaz operate covertly behind enemy lines with no guaranteed logisticsl backup for resupply. Meaning they have to scavenge the enemys weapons and ammo. The mujahadeen use 7.62 ammo for their AKMs. Spetznaz can simply pick them up from killed enemies.
it was bc the ak 74 didnt have a suppressor and akm did
The burst mode was a ridiculous addition. I also never understood why the gas tube was permanently welded to the rifle. This is a nightmare for cleaning the rifle, especially if using corrosive ammunition.
AN-94 was better and had undergone full USSR testing, which used to be hardcore, unlike Russian. AN-94 was also ready to be produced. They added 2-burst to eliminate talk that AN-94 can do things AK-12 can’t. “See, we also have 2-burst! Your AN-94 ain’t shit”. And even if AK-12’s burst is crap, that’s how logic of Russian Corruption works.
@@CallOfCutie69 Honestly the an94 was just too expensive and complex for a general issue rifle.
@@matteusvirtanen392 and AK-12 is too unreliable for a general issue rifle, but here we are
@@CallOfCutie69 Both are correct. If I was in Russian procurement and politics weren't a thing I would have just adopted something akin to an ACR or an MCX but in 5.45. The AK isn't horrible as a platform but there are many ways to improve the design.
@@CallOfCutie69 As an infantry rifle? Fuck nah lmao. Grunts will always find a way to break things. I don't care if they made the AN-94 never need cleaning, never jam, and never need to be taken apart, grunts will still find a way to lose half those little parts. IMO spending the money just making better triggers and just firing semi auto is far easier. Especially when it ruins the entire easy to use safety
To be such an unpopular weapon, it sure is a sexy thing.
No, no it's not.
@@mikeblair2594it is
The prototype version was more sexier
@@The_Courier1998 finally someone has common sense
@@The_Courier1998true
For instance, Finland just choose to modernize their old RK62 to RK62M. It was cheap and practical solution.
@BadBomb555 to start the Finns rear sight is soldier proof, rear flip. Two ranges and a third with the night sight. Not this adjustable ranges for meat that can neither read nor count. Every country tries to make their gear soldier proof, cause if it can be broken it will be broken through sheer stupidity. Unless you're the US Marines, its just what they do. Take a Russian conscript and expect him to know how or have the capacity to learn how to work an adjustable peep sight is just asking to much.
Thats a hell of a rifle. Not much to improve there.
Yeah but what about the child of an officer that was given a job! Won't you think of the useless zits of society you could be creating nothing jobs to waste money on?!
@@PugilistCactus lol, you really think you're right.
have you ever heard of an ak-74m?...
Yeah, I read a Russian soldier's opinion of the AK-12 on Telegram. He said his weapon of choice was a modernized AK-105 with zenitco handguard and red dot.
@pissedpajamas5718 On COD you will.
Ah yes, The Activist. Where are you on other invasions across the globe before? No words? Hmm? A bot indeed @pissedpajamas5718
@Velikan5.45x39mm slava ukraini
@Velikan5.45x39mm Slava Cocaini
@@planetcaravan2925 Salo uronili! HEroyam v sralo!
I remember examining an AK-12 at the "Army 2021" expo in Moscow a few month before the events in Ukraine unfolded. The instructor seemed to hate it; claimed the whole thing was wobbly (the stock and handguard especially) and that the picatinny mounts on the receiver cover were more of a gimmick as they weren't stable enough to reliably mount decent optics without having to readjust them after removing the cover to clean the weapon, for instance. The picatinny rails on the handguard were useless for mounting anything besides flashlights.
When the gun first came out, the military hated it and called it "an attempt to turn the good old Kalashnikov into an "M-series" (slang for Western assault rifles)". I think politics were largely to blame as the Izhmash plant (now the Kalashnikov concern) faced bankruptcy in the early 2010s, and the government basically kept them afloat until they got their business model in order by ordering batches of AK-12s.
To be fair though, most of the concerns voiced by soldiers were addressed in the AK-12 rifles that were produced after 2023, but I still think the MoD should go with another rifle in the future (ideally an AEK-971/Kord derivative, or the AKV-521 if they insist on sticking with the Kalashnikov pattern).
"Events in Ukraine" Yeah right...
@@Imperial_Lizardgirl you've got a problem with the term? I mean they are called a lot of things; SMO, war, invasion, conflict, crisis... plus the virtue-signalling terms much overused by Western talking heads and MSM.
It depends on which AK-12 he had experience with. For instance if he had original rifle that was introduced in 2018, then it was indeed not fully resolved. Criticism of a wobbly stock is a bit silly since it's impossible to make it perfectly stiff and at the same time easy to adjust. Handguard is only wobbly if someone had utterly destroyed the pin retention. SUre, one can DEFLECT the handguard with pressure, but how hard does one have to press?
Initial top cover release was a bit of a problem since people needed to rotate the lever to be able to pull it out which wore the pin hole more, and also were not seating the cover fully forward and used the pin to "drive" it fully home, which added to the wear. Also if we look at the AK tangent sight, it also wobbles when shooting. Noone seems to complain.
COncerns were about rifles made BEFORE 2023 you mean? Because 2023 rifle had made a lot of changes to address the issues you listing here.
One thing about A545 KORD was that it needed a new production line set up, and rifle cost a LOT more than AK-12. In fact AK-12 uses a lot of original tooling that was used to make AK-74M. In making AK-12, they've kept manufacturing process changes to the minimum required. Just to be fair, the A545 KORD is worth 3 AK-12s, while giving a rather similar accuracy performance, both in single and in burst fire. Which is kudos to Kalashnikov.
AKV_521 is a purely-civilian firearm, and it seems that Russians may not even send it into production, and Mr Vlasenko is no longer an employee of KK, so there is that.
@@Imperial_Lizardgirlwhat's the issue with that?
@@Imperial_Lizardgirl well, the guy worked for (or with) the Sputnik news agency. Expecting him to call this _a war_ would be too much. Doesn't make his comment wrong in any way though.
All of these short comings were fixed with the gen 3. The rough list is this. They started using glass filled nylon for the plastic, stiffened the dust cover rail, redesigned the ergonomics completely based on soldier input, removed the burst, improved qc, and fixed various little problems like the fire selector going too far. Its widely used in the spetsnaz now, given that they were the ones who test the gen 3 first of course.
AK74M/AK200 just makes more sense overall.
But it can’t mount scopes or laser attachments like the AK-12
@@yarnickgoovaerts the AK200 is optics/accessory ready and covered with picatinny that actually holds zero. The AK74M may not have accessory mounts (with exception of dovetail optics mount) in factory configuration, but it can easily be outfitted with furniture that allows it.
@@johnthomson2377 I thought the AK-200 was just the export version of the AK-12
@@yarnickgoovaerts No. the AK200 is based on the AK74M rifle, and uses the same barrel, bolt carrier, trunnion and handguard retention system. The main difference is the hinged dust cover that holds zero and a slightly different folding stock latch.
@@yarnickgoovaerts replace with piccaninny rail for AKM would fix that
70s-80s: army uses new ak74 while spetsnaz uses akm
2020s: army uses new ak12 while spetsnaz uses ak74
I think it’s just the fact that the older models already have a lot of parts kits to iron out and customize the weapon exactly to how the operator wants it. While the new guns are meant for the grunts with basic upgrades over the older standard issue rifle. The upgrade from akm to ak74 meant a lot less recoil for grunts due to the 5.45. While the upgrade from ak-74 to ak-12 meant grunts can now more easily add attachments/scopes to their rifles without having to go through the whole parts kits process. In due time the ak-12 will be completely ironed out and this early period will be regarded as the same as the problems the early ar-15 pattern of rifles had.
I heard that the older vision of the AK-12 was a lot different, but the government kept removing features until it became a normal AK with rails. But if that's the case, why don't they take the Zenitco alpha rails? It's already there, and it is high quality.
The early Zlobin prototypes were actually closer to the AK74M than the current AK12, and I would argue that's why they were better. The primary changes were in handling, like placement of the charging handle and selector switch, and rails were integrated without completely changing the handguard/gas tube/dust cover mounting.
In other words, it didn't try "fixing" things that weren't broken to begin with, and focused on modernizing in ways that actually mattered.
As for why they didn't just use zenitco? It's kind of a band-aid solution. It's all milled aluminum, and adding that weight on top of a rifle that's already significantly heavier than an AR adds up to a lot. This isn't just for people flexing on guntube, this is for soldiers who need to be able to walk for miles without rest carrying a full combat load.
@@cherenkov_bluealso costs
Government didn't remove any features. AK-12 tested originally had all the good things, but only on paper. The safety-selector had too narrow a range of angles in which it worked, the position of it also was not comfortable. The charging handle was hitting peoples thumbs so they mostly left it on the right side, where it always is. Stock was weak and broke after a single GP-25 shot. Railed dust cover was full-length and had uneven thermal expansion and resultant POI shifts. Soft recoil was achieved by lightening the bolt carrier which caused it to be insufficiently robust for a service rifle. Also overall the rifle was not going to use ANY of the existing manufacturing base which would have required a full manufacturing "rearmament" of the factories which would have taken absolute ages to do and cost an utter bomb. Russian MOD simply said "NOPE" to the utterly undercooked weapon.
Zenitco simply isn't big enough to make the required amounts of furniture at a sufficient speed. If you are aware of the Accuracy International rifle used by British MOD, it was designed and developed by just a 3-man workshop, which ended up having to sell the design to an established manufacturer for it to proceed: they simply didn't have the means to make them in required volume.
@@cherenkov_blue Original AK-12 was FAR from AK-74. There was no ability to interchange anything, they shared no parts and required a whole new production line. That AK-12 had spectacularly failed the trials on reliability. Also all the cool things were rather poorly implemented. For the full story, google Vladimir Onokoy story on AK-12. So no, it was not better than AK-12 that Russians ended up with. AK-12 today is ACTUALLY the AK-74 with reworked mounting of dust cover, new furniture and barrel.
*Back then*
Soviet Army Soldier: Wow, we got those brand new AK-74’s I really love them!
Soviet Spetsnaz Soldier: I hate it, prefer old AKM’s or AKMS’.
*Now*
Russian Army Soldier: Wow, we got those brand new AK-12’s I really love them!
Russian Spetsnaz Operator: I hate it, prefer old AK-74M’s.
Russian army in future: wow, we got those brand new ak-28's, I rly love them
Spetsnaz: Ak-12 is better
All new issued rifles have growing pains when they’re first introduced.
But this was is basically a pain, it supposed to be an improvement but they butchered it to the point the original is better
@@rocky-zx6kq No like he said it was true of everything from the first ak47 to the first AR15 they were literal dogshite when first issued.
The free floating barrel and optics readiness is all the AKM platform needed the selector can be easily changed out the only real problem I see with the design is that gas ring.
This, it was basically not optimized, its kinks will be fixed in time making a cheaper but modern ak variant able to fit stuff on, it was never meant to be a elite specialized rifle
@@magnem1043 the Ak-12 rifles manufactured after 2023 featured a number of improvements compared to the ones made before. Still far from ideal though
@@off6848The M16 wasn't even that bad. Bad ammunition and the troops thinking it didn't need to be cleaned where bigger problems than the rifle itself.
The current 3rd iteration of the AK-12 and AK-15 are pretty decent and most of the kinks have been ironed out and burst is gone from the fire control. The flimsy and shaky stock is gone and a solid folding stock with adjustable length of pull is fitted to 3rd generation rifles. Parts breakage and cracking is apparently fixed too. The major reason that special forces prefer to use the AK-74M and other 100 series rifles is that there is an abundance of after market parts for them. The AK-12 can also only use the suppressor that is designed for it as it fits on the muzzle break or the mount depending on which model. There are very few of them in circulation too. The 100 series rifles do not have this issue and there is a large choice of option to suppress them which is one of the main reasons they are preferred. The fixed gas tube is not really an issue as you can clean it fitted by opening the end of it. The handguard is still a small problem as it is not as solid as something like a Zenit Co B19 or B30 handguard but really it is only a small issue. It is fine for mounting a light or even a laser. You wont get the as solid zero hold on the laser but with most of the after market handguards you cant mount a GP-25 or GP-30
YOu think the russians think that much about it? The simple answer is the ak 105 is cute. Burly men like cute things too!
Your comment about many of the AK12's "innovations" being based on video game logic is funny and accurate.
There's also a large historical precedent for it, particularly in American arms development. We've tested out crazy ideas like "what if every soldier carried a high-tech grenade launcher that was integrated into their rifle?" or "What if we increase hit probability by using burst-firing hypervelocity flechette rifles?", among many other ideas that were seen as stupid by anyone with actual combat experience.
I think it's rather likely that this sort of weird experimentation was a motivating factor for Project Abakan, and later Project Ratnik in the wake of the AN94's failure.
Yes, I didn't even have to think about it. I have been following the military sphere and civilian shooting fashion for quite a long time. I look at this quick-release AK-12 mount and realize that someone was literally saying "We saw American special forces quickly put suppressors on their rifles, let's do something like that" or "Oh, they have a Magpul! It's super cool, let's make the same stocks" ))
@@casperarmsEveryone is chasing modularity because its a force multiplier. Russia seems to have dropped the ball on field testing while the west spend loads of money on it. Magpul is popular because its good and even the no-nonsense SOF guys are using it. Yes, the west tests some weird stuff because if it works then it might be a major advantage. All rifles with a grenade launcher sounds awesome if feasible. But it wasn't feasible so the project was dropped. Flechette ammo? You mean potentially lighter ammo with similar or better ballistics than a regular bullet? Great! Except it didn't pan out.
Never trust the fudds who aren't willing to test and accept new technologies. They're the same fools that think the M14 is an actual good rifle and would have us re-adopt it as a standard rifle.
I heard western gun experts preaching these while calling AKs "inferior". I just never understood, why one has to adapt western standards that doesn't add functionality and doesn't fits towards the objective one is pursuing.
@@aniksamiurrahman6365 to some extent it's just pressure to "keep up". The AK74M is a reliable weapon that (as shown by its use by both sides in Ukraine) is perfectly viable in modern combat. But it's not the flashy new thing.
@@brainplay8060 There has to be a balance between crazy experimental innovation and a sense of realism. I mean come on, a laser targeted grenade launcher where each individual cartridge has a microchip in it? Ridiculous, and the XM25 grenade launcher derived from the project proves that the idea is infeasible even when scaled back. It's heavy, expensive, and unable to fire if the computer in the weapon itself or the ammunition malfunctions. In the meantime, the project cost millions that ultimately went nowhere (not to mention the XM8 that also got canned). No country has an infinite defense budget, not even the US.
The left right Ak selector switch is really cool
The ak 12 is not a failure, it is good for what it was designed for. It was designed to give the standard soldier an ability to mount attachments easily and cheaper, especially thermo or night sight and suppressors, ak 12 is much lighter and cheaper than ak km. Also ak 12 is still evolving and it is stupid not to agree that it is modernised and standardised old school ak and this is why it’s good. Speznaz usually prefer something more customisable, but they usually don’t use their weapon for a long period of time because old school ak in furniture are heavy, but usual grunt will gladly take ak12 and forget all of the f@ckery with attachments on old school aks. So this video is based on more of a video game logic and he does not know how and why certain weapon choices are made. For government ak 12 is a major win in terms of supplies of attachments needed, because everything is standardised and they do not need to ask the soldiers what mount they use, and grunts do not complain all good for them)
This is a real commentary
Ты правильно, брат 🤙🏼👌🏼🇷🇺✊🏼
Thank you, a breath of fresh air among these armchair experts
Nice to see someone with a common sense here.
Dont ask the MOD where AK12 disappeared after kyiv failure.
This is what zlobin's prototype was ditched for...
yeah, really sad reality for AK lover.
Just the prototype of Zlobin was really a well-developed model in many ways, and he impressed many. But when even the fans saw the model of the AK-12 version of Dolganov (as far as I understand, he is the lead designer of the AK-12 version after Zlobin), people were simply disappointed
@@casperarms Zlobin's project was shit, no matter how you look at it. Zlobin's team had shooting athletes who strongly influenced the development of weapons. Do I need to explain how sports weapons differ from military ones? AK zlobin did not pass the state tests, which is not surprising. Its cost was too high. The receiver cover was very difficult to manufacture and cost as a separate rifle.
@Yevgeny_N It wasn't shit, it was just expensive. These are different things, and this is a question for those who talked about "fifth-generation weapons that are 2 times more effective than the AK-74," but in the end they just released a crappy tuned AK-74
@@casperarms Zlobin's AK-12 was shit! I repeat once again, he did not pass the state tests. During the tests, his bolt carrier broke. The 2016 AK-12 was also crap. But the soldiers praise the AK-12 of 2020. The AK-12 2023 changes took into account the experience of the war in Ukraine.
Some of the mentioned problems were fixed in later iterations: they get rid of 2-round burst, changed plastic of handguard, changed fire selector (you showed it)
I dont see how you can fuck up a ak but leave it to Russia they either make some of the best weapons or worst this one seems like it was made by a guy who plays cod all day
1:57 oh god no-one on the internet knows that ak 12 is evolving and 2 round burst is removed for almost 2 years
Dude, when I pick up a topic, I talk about it in full. I can't just pull out individual pieces that are known to a wide range of people, understand me
@@casperarms no hate
A lot of AK-12s in Ukraine still have the 2 round burst. Ideal and realistic are different
@@y0h0p38 i am not talking about ideal situation, this video just trashed ak 12 and i disagree
@@casperarmsBro if the information you present has been outdated for 2 YEARS IT IS NOT HATE. And it is publicly avalable.
And ta "talk in full" argument is like mentionaing reliability isshues of the M16A1 when talking about the M16A4
This is why I think the ak200 series was so much better. All of the positives without any of the negatives. Between the ak74m and the ak12
To be fair, a free floating handguard isn't inherently bad for military use. Many militaries have shown that if you do it right it's there's pretty much no point in not having it. The Block II, URGI, MCX family, 716i, the KS1, and modern 416's that use free floated rails just to name a few have been exceptional rifles. But like you said the flexing is an issue. Any laser mounted to that will have no hope of holding a zero.
I know. Better accuracy is inherently good. Kalashnikov concern was just stupid and thought that plastic was a good handguard material.
@@tylersmith3139 Exactly! I wonder what drove them to use plastic. Although it probably is the simple answer, money.
@@tylersmith3139 It IS a good material. The issue was that they simply didn't brace it well enough.
@@Led.... They used glass-filled polyamide for decades. AK-74 from mid-80s with plum furniture for instance is that. It shown to be a good material that was sufficiently rugged. The issue was that on AK-12 they didn't brace the mounting at the front, which is why it flexed as much as it did.
most or all of these problems have been fixed with the most recent iteration of the AK12
AK-74M is good, it works perfectly.
Old things are more reliable cause they stood the test of time.
No one should ever think that new stuff is always better.
wasnt it the same thing with the AKM and the AK74?
No, the reasons are different
He made a Video about it 3 months ago
@@casperarmsok
The main reason is that 5.45x39 for the AK-74 is a small round that relies on hitting super fast to penetrate armor/cause larger wounds inside the body from pressure/frag. Mainly it was Spetsnaz or whatever other SOF equivalent they put in Afghanistan who disliked the 74, as they couldn't get subsonic rounds to use with suppressors. Remember, a suppressor doesn't do much without a bullet that's subsonic. Another benefit was that they probably had situations where they couldn't resupply for a bit, so being able to use the same 7.62x39 that their enemy's used in AK-47s/Ms and SKSs was probably a lifesaver
AKM is flimsier than milled but is still grunt-proof, i am sure everyone was happy to drop a kilo off their shoulders.
AK-74 is better across the board but 5.45 subsonic flat out sucks and would suck even if the bullet was made out of DU.
AK-12 is just sheer corruption and incompetence, worse in every respect than an AKS-74N with 200$ worth of aftermarket parts. I am almost thankful MTK doesn't see this.
your video's are excellent. Very informative and your english is great.
He sounds like AI
Mikhail Kalashnikov is probably fuming rn looking at the ak 12
He wouldn't be. It's not even his rifle any more.
@@Max_Da_G the group is named after him, and it's a descendant of his creation
@@scheie5268 He gave his blessing and the name is in his honor. Also he understands as good as anyone that when something is re-designed with new design decisions, they take time to iron out the kinks. For instance original AK-47 prototype was stamped and riveted, while what ended up being introduced to the Soviet Army was using milled receiver. AKM was a rather significant redesign of the AK. And there were many different design adjustments during the production. Same goes for AK-74. He understood that some things need to be tested in real combat to be understood that what works on paper and in peace time, is useless in war. For instance Russian military had adopted many small, at first insignificant things, while utterly removing and retiring things that appeared to be very promising as a result of experience in Syria.
Generals often aren't convinced by new stuff until war happens, people die, troops crack the shits to the extent large enough for higher-ups to finally take notice, and ONLY THEN does the fat overweight machine that is military top brass gets its ass moving about changing things. And even then they don't introduce everything soldiers in the trenches ask for.
very interesting. thank you for the vid
Also wish for video about AEK-971 soon
I also hate this new "Diopter Sights", the old one where better to get a quick aim.....
"😠✋🏻NJET! RIFLE IS FINE" -Spetsnaz
It’s net
@thepowellfamily8430 Right yeah don't take it too seriously lol
I'm glad that my country chose Galil Ace to make our own variation STV instead of AK 15
I believe they addressed all of the issues in the latest gen. But, are the calibers on the 12, 15 and 19 interchangeable now that they're using the same parts? That would be pretty cool.
As one friend of mine in Ukranian Army, who had a chance to hold a trophy AK-12, once said, "AK-12 is a shitty AK-74, but with cheap chineese accessories". For the record, he prefers AK over AR.
Why does he prefer the AK platform?
I'm just curious.
@@grindcoreninja6527 Well, AK does achieve it's goals -- what's the sence of optics in 100m warfare? Iron sights are enough for 100m. 2nd reason, is more regional -- in Ukraine we have 5.45mm ammo cases literally in any trench. If you are in a assault squad and you happen to have an AR-platform riffle -- you have only ammo, that you have on yourself. If you have 10 mags and some ammo boxes in your bagpack -- this is your only ammo. But with 5.45 you can easily use friendly or Russian mags.
there's so much features the ak 12 could've taken concept and design from already proven from working platform altho the reason to make more ak 12 and not modernize remaining ak 74 was due to both keeping the military industry alive and getting newer rifles they could've made it more well thought out. the dust cover could've been based on the krinkov ( even zenitco had a dust cover mount similar in concept) and the hand guard could've been torx screw mounted for extra stability, and the stock could've been any ar15 buffer tube stock that is common even in Russia.
most army do that when a new rifle is distributed the special force reject it for years
Unpopular opinion but I think the outdated AKs like the AK47s or AKM are the best because they’re more powerful and durable, other than the 74s and AK 100 variants.
they changed to 5.45 for a reason
Objectively false. AK47 had terrible trigger reliability isshues and it was expensive to produce.
The AKM solved thoes problems but it still used an unnecesarely powerfull bullet and had excessive recoil
@@LovelyHavocFor the same reasons the US switched to 556
-The same amount of ammo takes less space is lighter and cheaper to make.
-The bullet is faster so AP variants penetrate more easily armor and they are more accurate
-The bullet has a smaller chance to kill so by shooting 1 soldier you take out of the fight 2 ore more because he will need medical attention or med evac. Wich leads me to my 4th point
-Less shot soldiers will die so after the war economies will be less affected by the sharp drop in the workforce
@@StevieTheBush man, i was replying to the OP, i know why they switched 😂
Its not more powerful though the 7.62 was similar ballistics to .300bo a dogshite cartridge. 5.45 is a laser under 200 yards and tumbles better than 5.56 go look at any gel wound channel demonstrations
Another reason why AK74 or AKM is preferred because there are vast quantities of after market parts, some cheap, some premium but definitely better quality than the standard mil-spec.
SOF units typically can buy or use their own if required.
But AK12 is new and the barrel change means it is very difficult to get after market suppressors too.
great video man, i have a question about the bayonets so the AK-74M has a standard bayonet thread or mount like those in m16s and the ak-12s has a clip on bayonet mount? like those in british rifles?
All they had to do was make a RIS standard issue on the AK-74M. The original AK-200 was just an AK-74M with rails.
What do you think AK-12 is? If you look at it, it's same AK-74 at the core and in principle. It was simply de-designed in different areas to be able to mount optics and accessories more securely and from the factory floor. It also had to satisfy military WEIGHT requirements. AK-200 didn't, nor did KM-AK kit which made AK-74 bloat beyond military weight requirements. Original 2016 AK-12 used the leftover KM-AK grips and stocks that military refused to use so as not to waste them.
Mom, I want AR-15!
Niet Vasilly, we have AR-15 at home!
AR-15 at home:
1:40 this firemode was deleted in AK-12 2023
I think these problems have been mostly fixed in the latest version of the AK-12 though.
they are , they just end up removing the whole burst fire mode at the end
@@stavros6969 Russia really shot themselves in the foot with this ak-12 program. If in the end the AK-12, which they have been developing for almost 8 years (development started in 2010 & adopted in 2018), only produces an AK with burst fire which is not at all as reliable as its predecessor, the AK-74. If this is the case, it is better from the start that they just adopt the AK-KM program (AK-74, with additional Picitany rail accessories from either Zenitco or Kalashnikov Consern) and avoid failure and embarrassment.
@@fedrickosamuelshidarta970 Can't remember 100%, but wasn't that the project that ended up costing far more than new rifles due to corruption issues?
@@y0h0p38 That's just the way things work in Russia. You figure in the graft into end total amount.
Basically, Russians keep forgetting, "rifle is fine".
The idea of improving service rifles with a small third-party parts manufacturer with low supply capacity is only useful on a small scale of use, such as for special forces.
Rifles for conventional units are mass-produced and specifications must be standardized. Cost reduction is also required.
Same like usa army what different? 0:27
Wut
Make NVG holder for helmets. And make separate NVG scopes
The Russians had it right the first time! They must not be familiar with that old saying, if it ain't broke,don't fix it! Some people can't resist trying to reinvent the wheel!
Maybe they should try doing a featureless stock for the ak12
So true, even if the newest 2023 AK12 is a little bit better, this rifle is SHIT.
I prefer to take a classic Plum AK74 rather than the AK12!
Verygood content, as always
Thanks!) I agree with you. My preference is an AK-74 in black plastic. I had one during my service many years ago, but in wooden fittings
@@casperarms The AK74 is a classic, i have an Izmash AK74 (with no side rail) with plum furnitures and some Molto RPK74 mags and it’s so nice to shoot with, so simple, so effective, i love it!
I shoot with iron sight only, and it’s quite easy to make hits at 300m with the classic "belt buckle" method, once again it’s simple, effective nothing fancy just the essential.
I have nothing agasint modernised AK’s but i don’t feel the need for a Red Dot or a PERST-4, sometimes a light installed on a barrel mount
I really don’t know why Kalashnikov Concern did it, so much design flaws.
I shot the AK12 civilian version (AK TR3) and i remember that the rear sight was moving side to side, (and the peep sight was too small) the fire selector was a pain to move, the stock was so big, so heavy, the handguard was moving a little bit, the quality of the polymer was poor, and clean the rifle at the end of the day...pain in the ass, especially the gas tube area.
When i see the excellent quality of manufacturing on my AK's (AK74 with plum furnitures/AKS74U/AK74 with wood furnitures) which were made more than 20 years ago, i don’t understand why Kalashnikov Concern did this AK12 with this poor general quality.
I had a FAMAS during my military service, not the same rifle of course because it’s a bullpup, but so accurate, compact, it had some design flaws like all assault rifles but it’s a very cool gun, more original than our new HK416F in service in the French Army now ; very effective, modular (but very heavy for what it is!) but...boring, so boring :/
I hope you enjoyed your AK during your service ;)
Plum is the most beautiful color for an AK-74
@@Droid_Behaviour you must have been born brainless. Rifle wasn't broke, but it was no longer catering to ever-changing military requirements. AK-12 was the response to those requirements. Initially an under-developed response. War evolved it. It's good now. Oh and at the core it's still the same design: operating system was unchanged, bolt carrier, locking surfaces, gas system is still the same as it was designed in 1974. What changed was furniture and its mounting. What is being improved is manufacturing process, which is outside the design of the original weapon. AK-74M was suffering from defects in the barrel chroming process for many years, just so you know
The AK12 has almost a west European or northern European rifle design.Having a front sight post like Finnish/Valmet RK62(or Israeli Galil)and rear peep sight towards the end of receiver cover.And also the side foldable stock has a western appearance.But also that new Chinese assault rifle,QBZ 191,has a US or western European appearance.
The Ak-12 was more or less the cheaper options as zennit parts are more expensive and the Ak74 is pretty worn, with worn barrels, peened bolts and worn out springs being an issue to replacement. Mass producing a new rifle makes sense, it's just they went with the Ak-12 as it was a lot cheaper than trying to mass issue Aek-971's or AN-94's or the like. Even the Ak-100 series.
Currently the AK-12 is a very good rifle that even Ukrainians seek to obtain them
Kinda like spetnaz units in the afghan war. They didnt like the 74, and prefered AKMs, most likely due to blending in , but probably what theyve trained and familiarized with
From what I understand too the ak-12 is super hard to suppress and from what I know of Russian special forces is that they love suppressed rifle. To the point where they carried ak-ms into combat with a 74 just so they could have a suppressed rifle in Afghanistan.
Fun fact, spetsnaz are so undertrained with there rifle, there was this green beret that was in Africa with them, and had a shooting competition for fun, and they didn’t even know how to zero there rifle
I'm no pro Russian but that seems fake, can i get a source or anything?
@@tanaziolopez1936 the green beret in Africa is My grand father and told me when he went to the range with them, that’s just eye witness, however you can try to find some articles but idk if there is any
@@jackiepwn You are so full of shit dude lol
Despite all this i love the AK-12. I currently own one and its my most accurate AK. Still everything said in this video is true. Great video
AK-12 is just such a sexy gun :>... however i got myself an AKM
I see soldiers, on both sides, carry 3-4 AKs in the trenches since they do not handle the mud very well. Switching from one rifle to the next as they jam. 🤠
Spentsnaz has left the building.
I think part of the annoyance with the AK 12 comes from the fact that everything the AK 12 was hoping to do was already done by other modernization kits that could be attached to a standard AK74M, and can do them better and cheaper, with perhaps the only exception being the weight
This feels like someone made it in mansion not in field.
I wonder if the new AK-22 is an AK-12M1 with 6.02x41
yeah that new 6mm is supposed to be a beast similar ballistics as 6mm arc
As a tarkov guy i can agree with spetsnaz. Ak 12 is trash, espessially that dioptr sight which is useless when you shooting at moving targets. Dioptr is good for long ranges, but for long ranges you need a scope and not this shit. Standart ак 74 ironsights are perfect for close combat.
How does it compare to the QBZ191 ??
IMHO, China actually have much better new Assault Rifle. because, you can see, the upgrade that QBZ191 bring, over it's predessor actually working, and feedback from the operator actually positive.
QBZ-191 did suffered some issues initially but so far it seems fine, also it's a new design and not QBZ-03 with changes rather than the AK-12 half-assed "new"
@@fedrickosamuelshidarta970 I agree. The QBZ191 is not innovative but just combines the best of all rifles into one package. Gun innovation has plateaued I think.
I mean military weapons can have a free floating barrel, but you can't do it cheap.
Can you do a comparison with the extinct VDV gear?
All those 'problems' are workable fixes, I don't see any show stoppers. Every new firearm is a work-in-process and will have 'bugs' they need to work out. The next version of the AK-12 will be better.
I mean, There's already an M (modernized) and an M-1 version, and he said they still have most of those problems. Although i don't think a non removable muzzle device would be a big problem for an avarage infantry grunt, and on the M-1 version they removed the two round burst that was causing problems. But when you compare to the fact that the first AK was immediately pretty much perfect, the AK-12 needing 2 modernizations in a single decade, or less, is pretty crazy. I blame capitalism. The original AK was designed by a working class soldier in the Soviet Union in a time when it was still a properly communist country, who was attempting to fix what he deemed a major problem in his country's military for the good of his brothers in arms in a country that was founded that way, while the AK-12 was designed by a for-profit corporation in a capitalist dictatorship
When you find out that the plastic handguard splits and the metal front sight breaks, you realize that this is not just a mistake. In a country where they learned how to make unkillable weapons half a century ago, such failures are something beyond the bounds
@@ghilliem.g.5824the very first production AKs weren't perfect, suffered from fragile receivers
@@casperarmssame as Sig Sauer and their new pistol came out for the US, so his point still stands. Doesnt matter if you are a reknown manufacturer, errors are bound to happen
@@AZNinsomnia02 What's wrong with the new Sig?
They should have done what the Soviets intended to do, plastic top cover and a rail over the top, that could've been done pinning the rail on the trunnions, other than that the Galil ACE reciprocating dust cover would be better than the old one too.
In the 2000's when the US Army wanted a more 'modern' rifle, we explored new guns entirely and the closest to adoption, the XM8, was deemed not worth it...but then we just got SOPMOD Block upgrades (block 1, block 2, etc...) that were basically just furniture/rail upgrades and completely succeeded in modernization. They were first used by spec ops, proven to be grunt proof, and then applied to standard rifles.
Russia already got EXACTLY the same option, up to the point of years of proven use by spec ops with Zenitco's kits, and they are clearly superior to the AK12 (just like an M4 SOPMOD was superior to an XM8 for example).
Should have just got Zenitco kits for everyone, no need for decades of separate R n D
Did I get that correctly that newer models have muzzle device non-removable? So how are they attaching suppressors?
right on top of the muzzle device
The bayonet barrel mount reminds me of nerf guns😂
the special forces across the world do this, when the M9 was distributed the Special forces kept the M1911. they also dont like it when infantry uses the same guns as them.
Like if they have choice or much to choose from. AK-74 still dominant by the numbers, while seeing a platoon of AK-12 riflemen would be like seeing a unicorn. SOF need fancy things and its common, infantry is not lucky in that matter. AK105, AK200 with custom modifications are likely to be operated by SOF. It's not like they can't modify the 74, but its easier with all the factory railings.
What happened to "Nyet,rifle is fine"?
Plastic on a gun makes me nervous.
How did they manage to fuck up the AK?
some guys from Sri lanka who went to fight for Russia were all given brand new AK 12's without any optics or anything
The ak12 looks good on paper to keep up with the modularity of the ar platform but in doing so the ak loses what makes it great, its simplicity and easy maintenance, how ever after market zentico parts have been used for years by russuan special forces and perhaps some of those parts should be prioritized especially for optics mounting weapon lights, lazers, ect.
Ak12 shouldn't exist, their is already better option than it i.e. modernized AK74M and the whole family Ak10x the final and one of the greatest homologation of AK, created by Mikhail Kalashnikov. The whole AK10x is eventually modernized like AK74M and is offered as AK20x. If they wanted to go for a new design they could have gone for AEK family, MA dragnov derivative or limited service A-91/ADS system. All three of them bring something new to the table. Even their own civilian offering AKV521 is much better.
In scifi elite troops gets newest tech. In reality they keep older weapons :D
funny thing is their many elite scouts still using this
on M1 they finally throw out that ridiculous 2 burst lmao
I missed the original design of the ak12
Great insights.
Watching interviews with dudes fighting in Ukraine love the battlefield pick up
Yh that why I’m confused. People issued it hate it, but people who capture it love and use it.
@@yaboyed5779War trophies. They love it but they don't use them. And when they do that luster wears off.
Same in WW2 where germans Loved pph41s because of their reliability and massive drum and the russians loved mp40s because of their compact size and ergonomics.
I say the average soldier doesnt care about tactical advantage and practicality, atleast with conscripts like in Ukraine.
They just think :"New rifle is good" and then use it.
@@iammrbadguy9706No they absolutely care about tactical advantage and practicality. Unless they never see any other weapon then they might not think about it. Once they've used western weapons, understand they're reliable, and offer tactical advantages, they all scramble to get their hands on them. There is a reason why the AK-74 is continually dumped by Ukrainian troops when they can swap out for M16 pattern rifles. There's plenty of ammo and parts for the 74's but few want them unless its all they can get.
Ukraine has been a big eye opener and killed a few sacred cows/myths about the AK weapons.
All very good points gentleman 🫡
Maybe they hate it because the 12 looks like a western gun lol and the AK74 is the stronk motherland symbol
You can't imagine how much they love Western modernization. Especially in the special forces. They never talk about it directly, but they are very jealous of the West and the technologies that the West has. Fans of the old AK without tuning are looked at as ancient people. They usually promote the theme that "we don't need anything modern, because our fathers and grandfathers fought without it". Most thinking people have nothing but laughter and a desire to get away from these crazy people
@@casperarms Hows that Ukraine conflict going nafo bot?
@@off6848easy boris
Drink some vodka
@@casperarms technologies lol they are using robots on the frontline... ua-cam.com/video/jsNIwPoMdXg/v-deo.html
Most of the "improvements" on the AK12 were Good Idea Fairy things that were poorly executed.
For example, free floaring handguards with mount options (Picatinny rail, MLok, etc.) are excellent for mounting accessories, especially ones youbwant to retain zero (like, say, IR frequency laser modules for use with night vision goggles), but only if they are *rigid* . If you can't get them rigid, you might as well have retained the older system with them mounted to the barrel group - your zero shift will still be about the same, but at least rhey wont break.
The 2 round burst *sounds* like a good idea, but rhe reason they work for the AN94 and the HK G11 was those rifles fire the burst rate at an insanely high cyclic rate with an action that reciprocstes within a chassis, so both rounds exit before the recoil from the first shot is transmitted to the soldier. Even then, the value of "hyperfire" is debateable. With the AK12's rate of fire, it's not debateable - it's just a stupid idea to add a burst mechanism, that complicates rhe mechansim withiutnoffering any advantage. And in the case of the AK12, as you point out, the additional swing of the selector lever required to get to semiautomatic is bad.
The non-removeable gas tube with the gap you cannot get into to clean is absolutely unacceptable in a combat rifle, *particularly* one where most of rhe ammunition stocks for the military is still corrosive primed - that's a failure point that will deadline rifles very quickly, and likelt cause the entire rifle to have to be replaced when corrosion gets unsafe.
I understand why they wanted a QD muzzle device - to enable easy transition to suppressors and such, in keeping with the idea that they will become more commonly used in the near term. However, wither do it well (as other designers, including on the AN94, have done, as well as various Western suppressor companies) or just stick with the proven AK74 muzzle mount system - it's slower than a good bayonet mount, sure, bht its also way better overall than a poor bayonet mount system.
All in all, id have to say rhe AK12 was (as we say in American baseball) "a swing and a miss", much like the US M14, rhe initial batches of US M16s in Vietnam, the UK L85, or the first generation AK rifles (the original stamped ones before the milled receivers or stamped AKM). (Not anywhere near as bad as the Indian INSAS rifle, but that is faint praise indeed. 😂 )
Now, not everything is horrible about rhe AK12. Provided it holds zero (especially after repeated disassembly of the dust cover for cleaning), the rear sight looks like a definate improvement. From what I understand, the new muzzle device is better than the AK74 muzzle device. But other than that, the AK74M is superior.
[Edit to add - using the collapseable "M4 style" stock ia an improvement, too. But that is probably the *easiest* AK12 upgrade to backfit to existing AK74 rifles.]
Us Slavs, at least the old Slavs, hate the new. We want the old stuff that we know works.
Their Zlobin protoype was by far a better upgrade than their curremt AK-12
Also the more complex iron sights are fairly useless, most modern armies provide their soldiers with optics. The marines still train iron sight shooting as a backup, but every marine gets a sight, they don't really use the iron sights anymore. Now considering that the Spetsnaz is basically the russian equivalent of the SEALs I seriously doubt they care about the iron sights, they all use optics and in case they wan't iron sights they'll prly just mount a separate set at an angle as backup
what can I say really. People who recently joined the army calmly fight with the AK12, and those who served for several years with the AK74 prefer it. A year ago, I, together with a friend who is 4 years younger than me, met the AK12, I didn’t like it much, but on the contrary, he liked the AK12 more than the AK74 and M4.
What about the AN 94 and the newer AEK 545? Also they are developing new 6mm cartridges
AN-94 is an engineering masterpiece and maintenance nightmare. The AEK counter-weight recoil system just can't be made to last and it does add weight. 6mm sounds perfect before you think about it as a FOURTH assault rifle cartridge in the system.
From a blank slate i'd probably nominate AM (that AR-18esque Dragunov's avtomat they dug out recently) in 6x41 and 9x39.
@@Klovaneer Who told you that A545 balanced gas system doesn't last? Who said that it can't be made to last? Does it add weight? For sure, that's how it's designed to work. If you REMOVE weight from bolt carrier you'll ruin the reliability.
A545 rifle only recently entered production, and it's being made for Special Forces issue.
AM-17 does exist in full-length version, but noone is going to replace AK-12 with it.
6.02x41 is a cartridge that may well replace both 5.45 and 7.62.
Why is Russia so die hard on trying to modernize the AK platform rather than just making a new modern rifle from the ground up, or outsourcing the manufacture to companies willing to bid on a service weapon contract?
Because the AK is adequate and cost effective.
Why is the US so die hard on trying to modernize the AR-15 platform all the time instead of just making a new modern rifle from the ground up?
Don't fix what ain't broken
@ghilliem.g.5824 difference is the AR takes very nicely to modernizing. The AK doesn't and they've been struggling with it since the inception of modern accessories. As it stands now the AR is a modern rifle and the AK is a gun pretending to be one.
It’s the same reason the US just constantly uses the M16, M4 platform, it’s because they are time proven effective firearms
decades of infrastructure and spare parts accumulation. Same reason the Prototype AK12 had a last round bolt hold open and release yet it was one of the first things cut, it prevented backwards compatability with the 40 years of AK74 mags that have been accumulateing in warehouses every day since the 70s
Even some of the spetsnaz use some an94 very popular among special forces
well although the maintenance part is painful, the AN-94 is still a very good and reliable rifle
Not really, An-94 is extremely rare, spec ops usually use Ak-100 series the most
@@BreadPittAAAAHHHH also true I didn't mean sorry should have clarified more well rare the spec ops still do use the an 94 being like it a lot but a very small amount use them but you are correct ak 100s are more out there and very popular version of those like the contractor assault rifle aka the ak 107 is very popular amoung pmcs and special forces widely used but not sure the numbers
The problem of the grip affects the zeroing of the sights as well.
The AK-200 would have been the ideal AK-12 and retain more commonality with the AK-74M (which is really the surrogate AK-100). The 2-shot burst is useless, and the only real change that the AK-200M (yes, they could do more) is improve the fire selector, and perhaps put the charging handle on the left side (a la AKV-521) to ensure extra protection, but beyond that, and perhaps the foregrip there is no real need to innovate the AK-200-design since it already has the right rails.
To those who want the quicker answer, AK-12 has bad quality, but it is standard issue so the army is forced into using it, AK-74 is good quality, but isn't standard issue, so only special forces such as Spetsnaz can get their hands on it
Short answer: because the army gets what’s new and the grunts tested out in the fields. Special forces already know how the older models work and they don’t want to be bothered with the guess work of a new model. Same happened with the AK74 , special forces hated it and kept using AKMs while the Soviet army and the paratroopers were all given AK74s in Afghanistan
What russian specnaz are you specifically talking about? There are at least 6 different departments that have them and some of them have different branches of specnaz, with specific tasks. And the army also has its own branch of specnaz...
Mine doesn’t use AK at all. He uses AS VAL