I have always thought of Tirpitz as an underdog story myself. Most who aren't naval warfare enthusiasts or historians don't even know Bismarck had a sister ship. And because Tirpitz never fought a surface engagement she is often treated as a footnote. Yet she probably had a bigger impact on the war than Bismarck (as a force in being), while surviving numerous attacks, and frequently taking a toll on attacking planes. Her gunnery during the Spitzbergen bombardment was described as fast and deadly efficient. Her story was one of a powerful and interesting ship that survived numerous attacks, and yet still rather tragic in that her navy never utilized her tremendous potential. Underdog indeed!
I love it when a guest knows his subject and launches into a wonderful account such as Chris has. He goes straight on, much like the attacks of the HMS Ardent and HMS Acasta . I was spellbound from start to finish and know more than ever I did about this naval operation. Thank you for a very entertaining hour!
I read about this battle quite recently in a book called Destroyer Actions 1939-40. According to Leading Seaman Carter , before the final engagement , Acasta’s captain , Commander Glasfurd , addressed the ships company over the PA system : “ You may think we are running away , but we are not . The Navy never does . Glorious is sinking and our chummy ship Ardent has sunk . The least we can do is put on a good show . Good luck to you all . May God be with us . “
Great to have you back Paul, a brilliant presentation by Chris something yet again I knew nothing about. It was a fascinating subject, have Chris on again, thank you both 👍
The shipping of Iron ore from Sweden via Luleå was exposed to British submarines even if they where not in the Baltic. When Germany pressured Sweden to use Swedish ships for the Iron ore deliveries they switched the delivery port to Rotterdam and the entrance to the Rhine saved the germans the trouble of transporting the ore by rail. This caused more shipping losses but the Germans didn't care as it wasn't their ships being sunk.
fascinating show with lots of information that doesn't receive much coverage in ww2 history. Chris is very knowledgeable speaker and his slides in this show are super helpful. As always, ww2tv brings us A+ content and speakers. Just sorry that I missed watching this show live, as the sidebar comments are always enlightening and engaging. Well done, fellas!
Great stuff, we could do we some more on Norway 1940! The fact parts of the campaign were concurrent with the Battle of France is a pretty amazing fact that's always overlooked
7:46 - Anglo-French-Polish troops, to be exact. Two French Half-Brigades (13th Foreign Legion, 27th Alpine), British 24th Guards and Polish Independent Highland Brigade. Plus elements of Norwegian 6th Infantry Division were also strongly involved.
Another great show.....Nice to hear stories and details I've not heard before....looking forward to this series of battles from the German point of view 👍
I believe sailors since antiquity were of the opinion that ships "personalities" were so mysterious and enigmatic that they likened them to a woman, or perhaps more accurately a mistress. The ship's particular moniker was of no consequence to this tradition.
Paul, an excellent presentation and discussion, loved the good humour on the gender identity of ships and the very commonsense approach by going with the German designation of battleships. The lack of clarity, and conflicting orders/ priorities demanding Marschall be all things to all men. The lack of local security on the part of the British was in hindsight a big mistake, sacking Marschall was a hard judgment, and Lutjens taking his place. "The make more U Boat" thing - that does not really hold realistic water, Hitler and Raeder were both "big ship men", the national prestige which reflected on Hitler really put submarine production on the back burner, the blundering into war in 1939 left the Kriegsmarine in an impossible position as Norway would in time show. Raeder was all for acquiring Norway as it would give him an extended coastline and bases, both the Navy and Airforce never really possessed nor could deploy the resources which could exploit this gain and others that would come in 1940. The telling comment was that of German disorganisation at all levels both in the OKW and through the chaotic governance of the NSDAP, the public perception of a mighty and invincible Germany which it took "half the world to defeat" ( the internet legend) is more a sign that you need to watch less second class intent posts and do some informative reading. ( Sorry I really don't mean to be judgemental).
Fantastic topic. I really enjoyed this talk. The Norway campaign (about which I'm no expert) is one of the relatively few major campaigns of WW2 that could have gone either way. Due to it being the only possible route for their iron ore imports from Sweden, the Germans needed Norway more than the Allies did at the time, and that priority might be a major reason why they wound up conquering the country, sadly. Yet it was a difficult victory that cost them many of the ships they'd planned to base in Norway. Later in the war, the Germans had many troops there on garrison duty that might have been better used elsewhere. For all that Norway cost the Germans, I can't help but wonder, if the Allies had saved Norway, driven the Germans out, and cut off their iron ore supply, well, we'll never know. Much like the French failure to really hit the Germans hard when the vast majority of their forces were busy invading Poland in 1939, this was probably a huge missed opportunity that might, might, have saved the lives of millions.
If you want to do aggressive surface warfare against convoys the Germans should have used a fast jeep carrier concept. This would be more cost effective as all you need is a fast hull a flight deck and some torpedo planes, even if they don't hit anything they'll provide massive situational awareness to the submarines and they can operate in the air gap out of range of Allied fighters.
Aww shucks am still out of sync with the live shows atm. Would have had two questions: 1) Would Chris have any ideas on why the after action reports and enquiry files written by the Royal Navy are the only WW2 files to STILL remain closed under the Official Secrets Act. They were classified as to be withheld for 100 years and have never been made available even after official periodic reviews. This obviously fuels the conspiracy theories that Glorious was sacrificed for Norwegian gold or Royalty etc. 2) Would Chris agree that the German Naval campaign in Norway was a disaster for them that is usually completely forgotten. All of their capital ships were damaged, their heavy and light cruiser fleet was half-sunk, and their destroyer fleet almost wiped out. At the end of it they only had two serviceable light cruisers and a tiny handful of destroyers left. All of those destroyed ships would have been vital for any invasion of the UK and the Norwegian naval disaster is what made the Kriegsmarine dead-set against Operation Sealion. Great show as ever WW2TV.
Afraid I'm not sure why the Glorious files are still sealed. Last I heard anything about them there was the argument that putting them in the public sphere would not be in the public interest which does send up red flags for people. Then again they had the same thing with the Shingle Street issue which turned out to be nothing. I fear that there isn't that much that would change the issue. To be fair the Devonshire would not have been a match for the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau had she diverted to answer the SOS. I absolutely agree that Wesseraubung was an absolute disaster for the German Navy and saw the decimation of their surface fleet. It was definitely a major factor in the KM not wanting Operation Seelowe but there were other issues as well such as man shortages for the barges, the length of the front they would be attacking on and my favourite - a shortage of life jackets for the sailors and soldiers manning the barges. The Norway campaign does need a good naval review at some point. Glad you enjoyed it
@@jerijerod14 Thanks for the responses Chris! Very much appreciated. Part of me thinks the Glorious files could well be a complete flop, but then I can't help but wonder that if they've opened up about Enigma (and even having foreknowledge that the Coventry raid was going to happen etc) then how much more profound could the Glorious files possibly be!
The captain and wing commander on board did not get on, and the captain had the wing commander up on charges of court martial.... And that was the reason the carrier was there.... It should not have been alone... So I would say with the captain having no confidence in the wing commander ( unfairly) that was why there was no planes up.... The carrier captain was not a carrier captain previously, he had no real experience, see Drachinifels video on the Glorious controversy. Very interesting
I believe the comments of Admiral Raeder not being a good people manager was spot on as to his relationships with his various Fleet Commanders over the years was not good. I believe that Admiral Marshall was correct in his decision to remain at sea and the success of Operation Juno speaks for itself. It is ironic that prior to Admiral Lutjens departing for Operation Rheinubung he visited with Admiral Marshall and Marshall told Lutjens not to feel too constrained by his written orders from Berlin and advocated for the Fleet Commander's on scene freedom of action. Rather than agreeing with Marshall Lutjens told him he did not wish to be the third Fleet Commander relieved by Admiral Raeder and would follow their orders to the letter which had fatal consequences for the new Battleship Bismarck and Lutjens himself.
I don't know that this was standard in the Kriegsmarine....simply that the commander of Bismarck instructed his particular crew to refer to Bismarck as "He", because no ship so "powerful could be female".
A great intro to a campaign that I find fascinating but don’t know enough about and that is often overlooked, as you say. The gratuitous trans jibe wasn’t a welcome inclusion though :-/
I have always thought of Tirpitz as an underdog story myself. Most who aren't naval warfare enthusiasts or historians don't even know Bismarck had a sister ship. And because Tirpitz never fought a surface engagement she is often treated as a footnote. Yet she probably had a bigger impact on the war than Bismarck (as a force in being), while surviving numerous attacks, and frequently taking a toll on attacking planes. Her gunnery during the Spitzbergen bombardment was described as fast and deadly efficient. Her story was one of a powerful and interesting ship that survived numerous attacks, and yet still rather tragic in that her navy never utilized her tremendous potential. Underdog indeed!
Chris gives an excellent presentation on the naval actions during the Norwegian campaign!
I love it when a guest knows his subject and launches into a wonderful account such as Chris has. He goes straight on, much like the attacks of the HMS Ardent and HMS Acasta . I was spellbound from start to finish and know more than ever I did about this naval operation. Thank you for a very entertaining hour!
Paul,
Thanks to you and Chris for this interesting talk on early war naval engagements in Norway.
I read about this battle quite recently in a book called Destroyer Actions 1939-40. According to Leading Seaman Carter , before the final engagement , Acasta’s captain , Commander Glasfurd , addressed the ships company over the PA system :
“ You may think we are running away , but we are not . The Navy never does . Glorious is sinking and our chummy ship Ardent has sunk . The least we can do is put on a good show . Good luck to you all . May God be with us . “
Great to have you back Paul, a brilliant presentation by Chris something yet again I knew nothing about. It was a fascinating subject, have Chris on again, thank you both 👍
Glad you enjoyed it
Don't know how I missed the original showing. Granted I am also a Chris Sams fan. Brilliant stuff.
Paul/Chris, Thanks for a great presentation! Much better to hear the dubject than reading a book!
Bob
The shipping of Iron ore from Sweden via Luleå was exposed to British submarines even if they where not in the Baltic.
When Germany pressured Sweden to use Swedish ships for the Iron ore deliveries they switched the delivery port to Rotterdam and the entrance to the Rhine saved the germans the trouble of transporting the ore by rail.
This caused more shipping losses but the Germans didn't care as it wasn't their ships being sunk.
Another fantastic show.
Fascinating presentation of a little known naval operation. Great detail and slides. Many thanks. Look forward to hearing more from Chris
Hello folks. Great show on the naval aspect of the Norway campaign from an expert. Outstanding presentation, well explained.
Many thanks!
the lovely Chris!
fascinating show with lots of information that doesn't receive much coverage in ww2 history. Chris is very knowledgeable speaker and his slides in this show are super helpful. As always, ww2tv brings us A+ content and speakers. Just sorry that I missed watching this show live, as the sidebar comments are always enlightening and engaging. Well done, fellas!
Great stuff, we could do we some more on Norway 1940! The fact parts of the campaign were concurrent with the Battle of France is a pretty amazing fact that's always overlooked
I second this. Norway 1940 is an interesting campaign from start to finish.
7:46 - Anglo-French-Polish troops, to be exact. Two French Half-Brigades (13th Foreign Legion, 27th Alpine), British 24th Guards and Polish Independent Highland Brigade.
Plus elements of Norwegian 6th Infantry Division were also strongly involved.
Another great show.....Nice to hear stories and details I've not heard before....looking forward to this series of battles from the German point of view 👍
Glad you enjoyed it
I believe sailors since antiquity were of the opinion that ships "personalities" were so mysterious and enigmatic that they likened them to a woman, or perhaps more accurately a mistress.
The ship's particular moniker was of no consequence to this tradition.
Great commentary, so matter of fact but really knows his stuff!
when do you sleep..? :) :)
Paul, an excellent presentation and discussion, loved the good humour on the gender identity of ships and the very commonsense approach by going with the German designation of battleships. The lack of clarity, and conflicting orders/ priorities demanding Marschall be all things to all men.
The lack of local security on the part of the British was in hindsight a big mistake, sacking Marschall was a hard judgment, and Lutjens taking his place.
"The make more U Boat" thing - that does not really hold realistic water, Hitler and Raeder were both "big ship men", the national prestige which reflected on Hitler really put submarine production on the back burner, the blundering into war in 1939 left the Kriegsmarine in an impossible position as Norway would in time show.
Raeder was all for acquiring Norway as it would give him an extended coastline and bases, both the Navy and Airforce never really possessed nor could deploy the resources which could exploit this gain and others that would come in 1940.
The telling comment was that of German disorganisation at all levels both in the OKW and through the chaotic governance of the NSDAP, the public perception of a mighty and invincible Germany which it took "half the world to defeat" ( the internet legend) is more a sign that you need to watch less second class intent posts and do some informative reading. ( Sorry I really don't mean to be judgemental).
Fantastic topic. I really enjoyed this talk.
The Norway campaign (about which I'm no expert) is one of the relatively few major campaigns of WW2 that could have gone either way. Due to it being the only possible route for their iron ore imports from Sweden, the Germans needed Norway more than the Allies did at the time, and that priority might be a major reason why they wound up conquering the country, sadly. Yet it was a difficult victory that cost them many of the ships they'd planned to base in Norway. Later in the war, the Germans had many troops there on garrison duty that might have been better used elsewhere.
For all that Norway cost the Germans, I can't help but wonder, if the Allies had saved Norway, driven the Germans out, and cut off their iron ore supply, well, we'll never know. Much like the French failure to really hit the Germans hard when the vast majority of their forces were busy invading Poland in 1939, this was probably a huge missed opportunity that might, might, have saved the lives of millions.
minor grumble : Hipper had 12 x 105mm guns, not 12 x 10.5" guns.
Sorry, my fault - I mis read my notes when I was writing the slides, whoops!
Sounds like the Norwegians were suffering from the same naivete that gripped Stalin
If you want to do aggressive surface warfare against convoys the Germans should have used a fast jeep carrier concept.
This would be more cost effective as all you need is a fast hull a flight deck and some torpedo planes, even if they don't hit anything they'll provide massive situational awareness to the submarines and they can operate in the air gap out of range of Allied fighters.
Aww shucks am still out of sync with the live shows atm. Would have had two questions: 1) Would Chris have any ideas on why the after action reports and enquiry files written by the Royal Navy are the only WW2 files to STILL remain closed under the Official Secrets Act. They were classified as to be withheld for 100 years and have never been made available even after official periodic reviews. This obviously fuels the conspiracy theories that Glorious was sacrificed for Norwegian gold or Royalty etc.
2) Would Chris agree that the German Naval campaign in Norway was a disaster for them that is usually completely forgotten. All of their capital ships were damaged, their heavy and light cruiser fleet was half-sunk, and their destroyer fleet almost wiped out. At the end of it they only had two serviceable light cruisers and a tiny handful of destroyers left. All of those destroyed ships would have been vital for any invasion of the UK and the Norwegian naval disaster is what made the Kriegsmarine dead-set against Operation Sealion.
Great show as ever WW2TV.
Afraid I'm not sure why the Glorious files are still sealed. Last I heard anything about them there was the argument that putting them in the public sphere would not be in the public interest which does send up red flags for people. Then again they had the same thing with the Shingle Street issue which turned out to be nothing. I fear that there isn't that much that would change the issue. To be fair the Devonshire would not have been a match for the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau had she diverted to answer the SOS.
I absolutely agree that Wesseraubung was an absolute disaster for the German Navy and saw the decimation of their surface fleet. It was definitely a major factor in the KM not wanting Operation Seelowe but there were other issues as well such as man shortages for the barges, the length of the front they would be attacking on and my favourite - a shortage of life jackets for the sailors and soldiers manning the barges. The Norway campaign does need a good naval review at some point.
Glad you enjoyed it
@@jerijerod14 Thanks for the responses Chris! Very much appreciated. Part of me thinks the Glorious files could well be a complete flop, but then I can't help but wonder that if they've opened up about Enigma (and even having foreknowledge that the Coventry raid was going to happen etc) then how much more profound could the Glorious files possibly be!
The captain and wing commander on board did not get on, and the captain had the wing commander up on charges of court martial.... And that was the reason the carrier was there.... It should not have been alone... So I would say with the captain having no confidence in the wing commander ( unfairly) that was why there was no planes up.... The carrier captain was not a carrier captain previously, he had no real experience, see Drachinifels video on the Glorious controversy. Very interesting
I believe the comments of Admiral Raeder not being a good people manager was spot on as to his relationships with his various Fleet Commanders over the years was not good. I believe that Admiral Marshall was correct in his decision to remain at sea and the success of Operation Juno speaks for itself. It is ironic that prior to Admiral Lutjens departing for Operation Rheinubung he visited with Admiral Marshall and Marshall told Lutjens not to feel too constrained by his written orders from Berlin and advocated for the Fleet Commander's on scene freedom of action. Rather than agreeing with Marshall Lutjens told him he did not wish to be the third Fleet Commander relieved by Admiral Raeder and would follow their orders to the letter which had fatal consequences for the new Battleship Bismarck and Lutjens himself.
Surprising they couldn't outrun them..... Interesting. She was (if i remember right) Trying to pull out Aircraft from Norway bringing them home.
Yeap and 43 begins the end
Don't ever try and understand a man riddled with syphilis......
Battle cruiser 100%
It would be very nice if people who know so much about a topic would at least once try to find out how German Words like Weseruebung are pronounced.
Germans referred to their ships as a 'he'
I don't know that this was standard in the Kriegsmarine....simply that the commander of Bismarck instructed his particular crew to refer to Bismarck as "He", because no ship so "powerful could be female".
It's more British tradition to refer to ships as a she
A great intro to a campaign that I find fascinating but don’t know enough about and that is often overlooked, as you say. The gratuitous trans jibe wasn’t a welcome inclusion though :-/