Building the Seplos Mason 280L Vertical DIY Battery Kit. PERFECT!!! Wait... it's not.
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 лют 2024
- We're back! Back into the DIY battery build. Oh, yeah, today we will have a look at this #Seplos box sitting in my garage for over 6 months. In fact, it is the Seplos #MASON 280L Vertical DIY Kit. We have seen (and build) the Seplos Mason batteries before on this channel and I loved it, so hopefully a vertical MASON box will be the same experience.
These MASON battery boxes come with all the accessories to fully assemble your battery. You just need to bring your own batteries of choice and your are set. BMS with display, cables, terminals, bus bars... EVERYTHING is simply here and you have your battery build within 2-3h. And, my people, this Seplos MASON vertical kit looks good. Aesthetically, it is one of the best I have ever seen, very high quality and material choices, beautiful workmanship, great design. Everything fits together as designed.
BUT!
The kit is not perfect. Oh, boy, the manual for example, is totally outdated, parts do not fit where they are shown on the photos. All photos have been taken from the top down, so in the manual, it looks like the whole box is upside down. Some of the stuff explained, you just have to figure out yourself. It's not a big deal, but Seplos has done much better jobs in previous builds of this MASON kit and had the perfect manual you just followed to built your battery. So, I used the online only manual only as a guide and did some modifications along the way to improve the box and design right away. I also didn't like the cell compression mechanic they designed here. It is a step back from what they had in the horizontal MASON Kits. So, I hope for a V2 which has a better design in this perspective. I also could not get the LED strip on the back of the battery to work even all cables are correctly connected.
Overall, the Seplos MASON 280L DIY Kit is extremely well build and putting everything together is a lot of fun. The high quality of the BMS, material choices and accessories satisfies while building this battery. Thumbs up for this box!
Seplos MASON 280L Vertical Battery Kit, all info, prices and where to buy:
off-grid-garage.com/diy-kits/
Gobelpower EVE LF280K cells I have used for this project:
off-grid-garage.com/batteries/
Review and test video of these great batteries: • Gobelpower EVE LF280K ...
Digital Torque Adapter:
off-grid-garage.com/measureme...
Precharge Resistors for connecting any low voltage equipment or capacitive loads like inverters:
off-grid-garage.com/inverters/
Seplos MASON Battery Box Build:
• Building the SEPLOS MA...
Please subscribe and join me on my journey of the Off-Grid Garage!
For more information, please check out my website with links to all the batteries, materials, devices and products I have used in my videos: off-grid-garage.com
The 'Buy me a Beer🍻'-link is here (on the website, scroll all the way down):
off-grid-garage.com Thank you for your support!
You can also click on the Thanks button under the video to support the channel. Thank you, if you have already!
T-Shirts, caps, mugs and more in our merch-shop:
off-grid-garage.com/merch
**** These are the batteries you are looking for ****
🔋➡EVE LF280/304 LiFePO4 cells 3.2V/280+304Ah: off-grid-garage.com/batteries/
🌞➡Solar charge Controllers, Inverters and accessories: off-grid-garage.com/solar-cha...
🔧➡Tools, Analysers and Testers: off-grid-garage.com/equipment/
📈➡ Battery Tests and Results: off-grid-garage.com/battery-d...
🔌➡Batteries, charger and accessories: off-grid-garage.com/batteries-3/
⚡➡Cables, Inverters and Electronics: off-grid-garage.com/electronics/
The Sunfunkit DIY battery. Great product to build your own 12V battery. Use OGGA at checkout to get 6% off. More info here: off-grid-garage.com/diy-kits/
Video review: • The Sun Fun Kit Experi...
Best prices for Victron gear in Australia: Auto Parts Co has you covered.
www.autopartsco.com.au/?pd_pr...
(they have 4WD parts and accessories too)
Take a live sneak peek at the Off-Grid-Garage in the Victron VRM World (link at top of the page):
off-grid-garage.com/victron-c...
Here is my Tesla referral link, if you want to buy any Tesla accessories or even order a vehicle. This is a great way to support my channel. Thanks a lot to everyone who have used it so far 🙏 www.tesla.com/en_au/referral/...
My other (German) UA-cam channels:
/ offgridgarageaustralia
Please don't leave any links in your reply. UA-cam will not publish your comment in this case.
If you decide to send me an email, I really appreciate your time and effort for doing this. However, please consider leaving a comment under my videos instead as I may not be able to reply to your email due to the sheer number of messages I'm receiving. - Наука та технологія
I must admit, that Seplos has send me this box 6 months ago but due to lack of time, I only got to it now. So obviously, Seplos has changed the design with this MASON Vertical DIY KIT in the meantime and the manual is now reflecting this new design. It highlights again, that it is important to include a printed manual in the box. A 1-page manual as they did with the horizontal MASON battery for example.
So, no change in rating of this box.
I wish I found this video a few weeks ago or the directions online for that matter...old coffee maker parts :)
Hello. I received a box of these about a month ago. The design has been improved. The bottom is no longer hollow (no need for the aluminum plate), and the battery area is divided in half with an iron plate to facilitate compression.
Came with alluminium flexible busbars.
Mine came with BMS version 3.0, version 200A.
Well done.
I'm missing the best settings...
...no Manual Also... But he is also updated on site ... Search on downloads , seplos 200(L) installation guide.
Keep The good work.
@@nunoganhoThanks for sharing. I have put a pinned comment at the top with an explanation.
So, does the new version have internal cells in vertical position?
Who could have imagined that Andy would one day be a huge fan of compression
Wasn't he always just fine with compression, just that it wasn't necessary because it doesn't make enough of a difference? I may have come in too late.
I was thinking the same. Andy why did your opinion on compression change? and are the strips to make sure the weight of the top battery's will not push to hard on the bottom ones, maybe there is something in the battery that is more sturdy on the side?
Hmm I was given the idea that if your load is above .5C it is generally advised to compress. Of not above .5C , then you don't need to compress. Maybe advise had changed from factory (EVE)?
I believe that if you spend the money on the steel box, you will expect that does the complete job including compression... it doesnt just because of bad desing, it woudnt be any more expensive if it did... with the cell prices today the box will easily be about a third of the cost of the whole battery
Yeah he's gone from no compression to trying to squeeze the living lithium out of them! Way too much which is why he's bent and ruined the cabinet!
Many thanks, really helpful seeing all your Seplos videos ... and indeed other videos. Was thinking about the horizontal and vertical boxes and its really great to see hear your detailed thinking and indeed seeing what feels like upgrades done by the company as a result of your comments. Brilliant!
I have exactly the same kit. I had a 40 x 40 sheet of 3mm mild steel. So cut the baseplate as per the video. I also cut another, larger 40 x 20 plate for the top (with 6 holes) to brace the top panel, no bending 😀. 17:03
Hi Andy,
I have two of those Seplos Standing kit with each 16x 304ah batteries.
Yours is different, because I do not have the LED on the back (Yes just checked) on both of them.
Both came with the Seplos BMS 10e (V2).
I really love those kits, easy to build and looks amazing.
I have used the UA-cam video, that is a better and newer explanation of the build.
I have used on both ends also the sticky pads and then compress it. That is much better and the metal did not bent.
Really nice video and I have enjoyed, Thank you Andy.
Kind regards
Thanks a lot for sharing. I like these DIY kits as well and Seplos is doing a good job with them. The BMS would not be my choice in the first place, but I wanted to test it out with other Seplos BMS...
Regarding the PC spacers. I came up with a similar design for my 2p4s build a couple of years ago. These cells are basically pouch cells in a thin sheet aluminum case. I am a structural engineer by trade so everything I look at is from a structural perspective.
Given the thickness of the aluminum sheeting, the only place on the case that has any strength in compression is the corners due to the 90º bends. Think of them as a stack of cardboard boxes. If the top and bottom are taped shut and you stack the same size of boxes, you can go quite high with the corner carry the load even if the boxes are not full to the top. The same is true for our cases. I printed up some corner brackets that have a 1.5mm spacer between the cells so that the only place I have contact is 2" along each corner in both directions. These spacers also have a hole to carry a 1/4" rod to the end board. When I tighten the rods all of the corners are pulled together and there is not movement in the pack. It is firm enough that I can lift all eight cells by lifting the end boards. I then have the silicone sheets between to prevent shorting the cells to each other.
These cells do not contain pouch cells! That is wrong information out there. The first LiFePO4 batteries had pouch cells inside, but this is a very very long time ago. Nowadays, all of these prismatic cells have coiled layers of electrodes pressed on a film with electrolyte in between.
Have a look at this video snippet here (even it is in German):
ua-cam.com/video/BOsJHzqcjoU/v-deo.html
Grande Andy, bravo 👏.
Kit Seplos ottimo 👍
The can to can device is nice thanks for sharing and looking forward to the review.
I forgot to tell you, I love your reviews. You put these things in a new perspective and help us understand that energy storage systems is not magic but just a matter of engineering... 😊
Thanks for your kind words, Niclas.
Hi Andy
just received my Seplos kit 2 days ago. I still need to work on it as I'm a bit lost with some wires, and definitely not helped at all by the very poor manual found online. It's a newer design (and the manual you've found is for this newer design)
An intermediate plate now exists to avoid the half bottom cells to support all the weight of the above ones (maybe also for compression - I'll see when I'll build it), and there is a full plate for the lower cells as well. It is provided with the active balancer, rollers are already installed, busbars are flexible.
The new case can be found on latest assembly video on Seplos UA-cam channel.
Good luck with the build process. It should be fine for you as you already have the newer box.
Andy, you're the Best!!
Thank you, my friend!
THank You for this very good video, I learnt a lot! I look forward to the sequel ;-)
Hi, thanks for sharing. I just build the same battery, but there is a difference between your box and mine. I had the seperator between the cells. Also mine came with the flexible orange bushbars which you didn't have, I've used those. Also the connectors/bushbarals of your BMS are different. It seems there are multiple versions out there
J'ai commandé mes cellules il me reste justement à commander un boitier avec le bms, impeccable, cette vidéo tombe à pic, mais pas ce boitier! merci. 👍👍👍
Nice job Andy.
Thank you.
Great content as usual thanks
Thank you!
V3 case has a full metal baseplate and a mid-pack compression plate. Along with a v3 bms and their active balancer. Built one a few months ago, seems OK so far
I ended up with about 6mm of compression when I bolted my mid plate and top plate down… just an fyi. The foam took up most of it as the foam was thicker than the polycarbonate strips.
OK, thanks for sharing. As I said, I had this case for over 6 months sitting here so, they may have changed the design in the meanwhile. The manual showed their active balancer.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I would be most concerned by the full metal baseplate that is missing in your 'old' version. The bottom cells seem not lay on a flat surface in the video you showed, and I'm concerned that the uneven pressure on the surface of the cells, which support 8 cells in total, would disform them. I believe you had a similar issue with an earlier EEL or Mason case that you resolved, but I believe that was a horizontal case. The new v3 version of the 280L both has a flat base, and a middle plate, which would both seem to lead to a more uniform pressure on the cells. Seplos probably made this change due 'user feedback' aka 'unfortunate incidents'.
Dear Andy:
You now have cells at the bottom with 39.2kg/86.4lbs. (7 cell weight) of "static" weight on top of them, then you added even more pressure by adding that plate and "crushing" them together with the top-plate.
The PolyCarb Spacers with foam in between IS to allow for the cells to expand & contract normally through their cycles. You have effectively removed that buffer space.
Please PAY ATTENTION to other Standing Cases & other Side Mounted Battery Cases. Look at all the GSL Wall Mount Cases that are leaking because the cells where over compressed and "squooshed". GSL also supplied several VARS with rebaged Wall Mount LFP Packs - all suffering the same issues.
That's not how it works. The optional 300kgf EVE and other prismatic cell manufacturer offer usually don't need any sort of foam or PC stripes in between. A simple epoxy sheet is enough here.
Thanks Andy
The LEDs on the back are not connected in the wiring harness. I have the same cabinet (2x) but without the LEDs on the back of the Battery Queen brand. Btw the Neey 4A balancer on its side fits perfectly to the left of the seplos BMS. Nice video!
Come on Andi you keep showing me the weather I want to see a kangaroo man.😂
Hahaha, yeah ok, Kangaroos, Koalas and sharks, right?
I really like these units. I use foam from the packing material for compression. I put foam on the bottom cavity and on the top of cells 1 & 16. The weight of the cells mostly compresses the bottom foam and the bolts and plate compress the top section of foam. Works amazingly well. I add the good ole NEEEEEY 4A balancers on the packs. The only thing I don’t like about the seplos units is the non-intuitive comms config.
I have used this foam as well and it compresses a lot. I mean, over time it will be thin as paper, so keep this mind.
The Spelos BMS has an awful lot of settings and parameters to set. Some of them are still a mystery to me... They have, however, updated the coms manual and it is now very easy to make several packs work.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I’ll have to check out the revised manual. I found that you pretty much have to construct your own cables to use with the rs485 and CAN communication. Once I figured out the pinouts, I was able to solve 90% of my issues. As for the foam, I just use it for extra support on the bottom (compresses only about 30-40% with about 90 lbs of weight on it.). I use the same for the top - again, only compressing about 30-40%. I also used the stick-on foam on the cells with the poly strips/spacers. I know the reason for this method is to give the cell some very minimal room to expand during worst case scenarios - without changing the cell-to cell distance and preventing the bus bars from side-loading the terminals and potentially cracking/damaging the terminal area.
Anyhow- I love watching your channel. I install solar as my small business and enjoy your reviews/overviews of various BMS units and there features, good/bad points, and overall impressions.
Take care!
I built this box a year ago. At the time, they didn't have the plastic strips on the sides of the foam between each cell. I think the intent there is that the plastic strips maintain a minimum distance between the cells, while the foam allows for expansion into that space.
You have more batteries than anyone I know! More power to you🤣🤣
All for testing purposes at the moment.
I have 2 of these in my garage and must say that they fir exactly and are compressed as should be. The difference is that my cells are EVE 304Ah ones. Maybe they are a little bigger then the 280Ah
Hi Andy, greetings from Finland! We had 30 centimeters more snow last night. It's always nice to watch your videos from sunny hot Australia. Where is Mister Frog? Br, Eeli
I don't really miss the snow, I must admit. But winter has other benefits, so yeah, sometimes miss the cold season.
Frogs are all gone. When I started the channel, we had so many of them around. A big disease hit them here in Australia and now there are only a few around. I guess it's this native regulation of population...
totally agree - have done the same and struggled at all the points mentioned even though in a different order cause I had started with the BMS cables first which was a lot of work. The creme white is really creme white and the quality of the metal case is superb, really excellent from a german point of view. Unquestionable good craftmanship, looks and feels like a furniture or sculpture and your finger like to touch it and move along.
But the manual and instructions that can be found are terrible, not matching the production version and what not. There are a lot of details that need an improvement like the compression top which is a shame cause they must know the specs provided by eve for the cells and the pressure we should apply.
I also suggest an active balancer preparation for the whole battery like an optional NEEY 4 active balancer to get that right instead of struggling with the tiny onboard balancers that are usually more or less crap.
And finally I would have loved to see bigger busbars considering that EVE cells are rated for 0,5 C or 140 A and the BMS with 200A , also there might be questions about these orange connection bars and their rating cause they looked not really much better except those were from copper.
I personally do not have to care that much about this topic cause my inverter is limiting the whole setup to about 3000W or roughly 60 A / peak 66A.
But I bet the connections / busbars look too weak for a BMS that claims to be a 200A BMS which means constant 200A !
Overall the 3 frogs are a charming verdict cause a lot of details are missing and the 3 frogs are only right if you emphasize on the outlook what could have been achieved easily and the built quality of the case (beyond missing foundation plate on the bottom and a reinfocring crossbar on the top and bottom, not much metal or work). I am still torn about the whole battery, one side says beautifull and the other knocks on the table so much has been overlooked or ignored that it is not good. But not good does not mean crap and among the mediocre cases other have delivered this gives at least a bit of hope and for sure the hope that SEPLOS will add an upgrade kit for small amount of money for the early adaptors that took all the risk.
I miss these plates in the bottom and the reinforced bar on the top to achieve a real compression according to the EVE requirements.
And ANDY is totally right about the whole case and manual / or rather no manual and diy requirements.
One page of printed manual in this box and everything would be OK. They did this with the other MASON DIY Kits we have built before. It was perfect.
there is already an updated version of Mason DIY kit available. with chassis improvements and BMS V3 installed. the review by Seplos also available
The manual I looked at showed the balancer installation already. The active balancer they install sucks though.
Andy it is a cherrypicker you have,,, as we called it when we yanked out a nice stout engine from a crashed car in the junkyard usually destined for our own old cars a ford taunus in my case a p7b 26M remember them? they were common in Germany and we skandinavians loved those cars
It's a battery crane! 🏗️
@Off-Grid Garage Andy u use manuall from 3.0 version , and you have 2.0 version , 3.0 have active balance and get oher stuff ;)
Exactly. And the new version also has a flat plate at the bottom, instead of only supporting the cells partly, and an extra compression plate in the middle.
It is unfortunate reviewing a 6 month old product, that has been improved on substantially in the period since then. To be clear, I really appreciate Andy's videos, but the circumstances don't help the usefulness of the review in this case.
@@ntram2 no, this is not true. Here we got the same case and design delivered about November or December 2023.
I had the same issues with the cable mess and no manual, nothing. Paper must be expensive to print and ship.
@@typxxilps yes, you also received the old model. New models were produced end of 2023, only arriving start of 2024. However, manual on site has already been updated to new model, leading to confusion. Problem would indeed be solved if case would include manual. However, I think they are afraid of new insights arising and the paper manual being out of date.
I used the manual which also showed the installation of the active balancer. I believe, there is only one manual for this case on their website. But outdated...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia That seems to be the manual for the 3.0 (Y) version, so it is not outdated because that is the newest version. Seplos should keep the old versions of manuals available too. Without that dangerous situations can occur.
Nice build just need to chuck in a JK-bms🤙
Does the new JK inverter style BMS fit in this case?
Heya, overall it looks pretty furm but lets wait till the 1st test will be done lol
I just cant believe you have to walk to the house to calibrate a Spat? Definitely need a little off grid fridge in the garage😂
Yeah, because I'm constantly drinking, right?!😆
hello Andy
I built two of these seplos (with 200A BMS).
I don't have the LEDs on the back
what I noticed is
If you connect the PC to the Seplos RS485 to USB on port 1, it works with a baud rate of 19200, but on port 2 I only get a connection with a baud rate of 9600
nice greetings from cold, snowy Austria
Thanks Werner. I never noticed that and have used both ports for the communication. The software always sits on 19200Bd. I'll pay some attention to that next time. What version of BMS do you have?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Model. 48200-1101-10E-SP118-16S Software Version V16.6
Wish I could show you the basen diy upright one I done for my neighbour, it’s such great quality. I keep telling them to send you one 😂. Their BMS isn’t as good as a jk but I made a jkbms fit just fine
I've been looking forward to this install after spotting the box in the background some time ago. I have to say, I'm a little disappointed to see that assembly was not as straight forward / well documented as it could/should be. Fogstar in the UK are doing a 15.5kWh battery ( available end Feb), which might be a better proposition for myself. They supply the 280L as kits already.
I think I must admit that Seplos has changed their battery case design in the meantime and the manual is now reflecting the actual box if you buy one right now.
Andy I really like your videos and I learnt a lot. I would sugest to use all this storage to increase inverting power mounting a 3 phase system also insrall victro EV charger to charge faster the tesla.
Why should I charge the Tesla faster??? It has all night long to charge.
Prost, Andy! Some s.p.a.t's are sponsored from me now!
Greetings from rainy Germany! 😢🤗
Thak you very much!🍺
Ich vermute mal, du hast eine neuere Bedienungsanleitung zu der Box genommen.
Dann würde ich das Loch unter deiner aluplatte auffüllen, wenn oben die bms Platte schon so eine Bogen macht beim verpressen, hast du das unten auch.
Ansonsten find ich die Kiste echt sauber verarbeitet und wenn der Preis von 440€ passt, ist die ja fast geschenkt.
There is only one manual on their page. They didn't bother leaving the old one on there.
Yeah, box quality, design and accessories are all great.
Hey Andy add the batt to the charger then the BMS leds may fire up...BTW its been too long between Beers for us!
Helllooo my friend from the outback! Yes, definitely too long in between beers!
I have the battery connected for a few days now and nothing lights up at the back. All LEDs seem to be not working. I'll see what Seplos has to say...
Andy , you need a much bigger garage! You can move the Tesla outside and take that space. The Tesla is not as important as your battery racks and all the test equipment and testing you do. Well maybe not the Heltec tester, you can put that outside with the Tesla. Looking forward to the new improved 'Up-grade Garage'.
Hahaha, ok, great suggestion. More space for batteries. I definitely have not enough storage😄
I had bought one last october in a pre sale from a german vendor for 470€ incl battery cable and shipping.
Arrived in December and was a great choice.
But: there is a key question still unanswered
Are the EVE cells designed and allowed to be used in this horizontal position and not vertical ?
EVE germany does not mention that in the specs, but Markus, the german LFP specialist, mentioned that on the channel zero brain in his latest interview where he had opened such a battery and pulled the 2 cells out of the canister and showed that built.
It was like an unusual one which meant rolled like on a spool, not folded where he mentioned that this was a surprise and would have an impact on the way how to use that.
Maybe you will get a reply from Seplos mason that and why EVE can be used this way.
EVE has confirmed that their cells can be used in all directions but upside down. It's on the German channel "Der Kanal"
Wow you’re breaking 80k nice 👍
Oh, yes. OMG!
Thanks Andy, as always, great stuff, always interesting and always very professional.
Q. I was wondering, what do EVE say about having the cells placed horizontally vs standing upright?
P.S. With all that solar and storage, when are you opening a Supercharger out the front? 😊
Thanks Dave. The cells can be placed in any direction but upside down due to the safety valve. It is recommended to compress them if not standing up, so the gas bubbles can be pushed out sideways.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks again for that Andy, much appreciated. 👍
Do you have plans to test any boxes, equipped with jk BMS?
Yes, EEL has got them now and I have linked them on my website already.
off-grid-garage.com/diy-kits/
EVERYONE - Keep in mind that the Prismatic Cell cases are NOT Any thicker than a soda pop can ! They have No Structural Strength AT ALL !
1 EVE 280AH cell weighs 5.6Kg /12.3 Lbs.
7 Cells weigh 39.2kg/86.4lbs and you are putting THAT weight on top of the bottom cell. (without extra compression).
LFP cells will always expand & contract a little bit due to the chemical interactions, temperatures etc. They require a small amount of space to be able to do so, hence the Seplos Foam Inserts & PolyCaronate Spacers . The PolyCarb spacers also being on the "edge" of the cells provides a bit of extra support along the cell sides (strongest part of cell case).
Seplos, while not the greatest at communications & documentation, they do not go out of their way to add parts & components for no good reason, they are also learning lessons as products roll out and issues are raised.... Their product "evolution" is the evidence that shows they are improving over time from Lessons Learned.
Exactly. I hope Andy publishes a new video soon showing the great improvements in that area in the 3.0 version of this case!
Why is your link the most expensive? There are some other suppliers that are over $100 cheaper! The delivery driver at the Grove must love you! 😁
Also if you look closely at the Seplos assembly video when they turn on the battery at the end the LEDs on the back don't come on either!
Funny that you keep saying they need to update their manual when you're building the old version of the case. Guess you've had it sat in the back waiting to get build while all the latest versions have the fixes.
For reference, I got my case in May last year, and it's the same as yours.
And??? Where is the manual for this particular case???
@@OffGridGarageAustralia It's on their site. I would link it, but youtube keeps removing it.
Go to the blog section on their site and it's the 1st article. No idea why it's in the blog section, but that's where it is.
My point was that you were saying they need to update their manual, and they have, it's you that has the old version. But thank you for adding a pinned comment to clarify this point :).
Hello Andy! Bus bar 20x2 Cu it is 219A for long time. It is from electrical book.
Yes and no,
yes according to the specs, but also the cables he had shown with those orange plastic wrap have smaller dimensions too, at least ours from november, which means built somewhere in the autumn or summer of 2023.
So, all the bus bar calculators online are wrong?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I don’t know why calculators are wrong) I can give tables for electrical buses. where should I put them?
This is for a dog treat for the pooch. Do not spend it on lunch time beer.
Thanks a lot, Joe. It will go 100% to the dog!
that was before i saw the cat, so they each get $2.50 towards a treat. i dont think that will buy much of a treat. i guess you will have to pay for the rest.
Could this be modified to accept 304ah cells and add a breaker? I guess you’d need different bus bars for the increase in amperage? And maybe change the BMS? Please Let me know. Great stuff as always Andy.
Great for taking time to do this review, yes myself prefer a circuit breaker
A 400A fuse but the buss bars are rated at 52A, something does not add up, magic smoke could be released before the fuse blows.
I guess Seplos has this way of protection.
Two protections has to be in place:
Short circuit: Fuse (last for milisecounds if its high enough, the fuse just has to be weaker than busbars/cables)
Overload: BMS
The bridges can handle way more current. The only smoke may come from the fuse.
I would not trust the online busbar calculator Andy uses. Only 1,2 amp per square millimeter copper - that's not true. At this small dimension the rail has a relative big surface.
For example according to DIN 43671 a 2x20mm copper rail can carry 162 amps constant current while not overcome 65°C.
@@Juergen_Miessmer
By my aircraft wiring single conductor in free air table with a 2*20mm bus bare = 1awg wire. At 300A there will be a 100degC temp rise, 400A is off the table but it looks like 175degC temp rise. Copper wire resistance increases 0.3% per degC. The 400A fuse will hold 400A long term. I would replace the fuse with a 100A, if this was my build. A 100A circuit breaker would be a better with a 52 trip curve.
@@universeisundernoobligatio3283
No, these fuses do melt at the rated amperage within a few seconds. They dont have a characteristic simular to MCCBs. You can not really run this fuse with 400A. It is not made for this.
The BMS and the rest of the battery is made for 200A and this 400A fuse will already get hot and to its limits at 200A current.
This fuse is only there as last instance in case of a short of the BMS. All other protections are covered by the BMS.
My reading of the Victron-little-fuse Mega fuses is that the Amp rating is stated for cold temp, and at normal room temp they are already much de-rated from what is stated on the label. It helps to look up the data sheet to get to know the nuances of the fuse behaviour.
Hello Andy, thanks for the video, interesting comparing my experience building the Seplos Mason 206Ah to this Vertical design. It seems they are taking some short cuts on the design compared to the Mason, as I see that central bar is missing. Q&C on screws and fixings are erratic as I had to buy some screws that where missing from my 3 Mason kits. Don't like that compression bar design at the top. I have in the pass offered to redo their manuals in proper English but they declined. I have been using the Mason batteries all over winter here in sunny UK. lol as individual battery packs, but decided the other weekend to connect 2 of them together. Big mistake! I connected the batteries and selected the DIP switches as per Seplos diagram and got confirmation that they were correctly assigned and that the top row represented the master. I have the Growatt SPF 5000 ES Inverters connect using the CAN protocol configure in the Seplos BMS software as 'Growatt'. I made sure they were balance to under 100 Milliamps before powering up with the Inverter. All seem OK the Inverter was reporting back the right voltage etc. So we carry on as normal doing house hold chores until all went black. It had powered down, and an alarm was sounding. To cut a long storey short, I've ended up with 2 Growatt Inverters and 2 Selpos batteries not talking to one another. Hoping to get some answers from Selpos, suppler of Growatt does not want to know!!
I hope you will get some cause meanwhile SEPLOS has removed Growatt from the compliance list for some system or even all. I had bought one when the website said Growatt and even mentioned SPH but this part has been removed meanwhile. I know your SPF5000 should be an offgrid I bet, but not sure if that is still on the list of supported inverters. The change had happened in October or November cause I had preordered one and meanwhile the changes had been made.
That's a bit weird. The master slave config should work the exact way as one battery alone.
Set the master to 5 and the slave to 1 and the inverter will see only one battery. The master is aggregating all data and send it combined to your inverter.
Wheels at the top is because you are down under....🐸
Ahhhhh 😄
Overall a very bad battery design 🙈
Stiff aluminium busbars, no physical breaker, no fixation, unfortunate cell orientation...no gas bubbles can escape to the side or top of the cell.
But for me that is good ... I am working together with 6 manufacturers (to find the best) and bring my own product on the market this year.
Once I am done, it should have everything we need with the JK Inverter BMS.
Thank you Andy for making the JK Inverter BMS great again!
Most LiFePo4 cells are rated to be installed sideways by the manufacturer
These cells are filled under partial vaccum. After filling, there is still some gas between the layers. If this gas can not escape to the side or top of the cells stack, during the first cycles, the usable capacity will be decreased. The chemistry changes at the spots with the gas bubbles and is not usable for Ion exchange.
If a over preassure vent opens up due to a fault, the electrolyte spills out.
That is why the over presassure vent should always face to the top. @@niktak1114
If they lay on a side (either way) they need proper compression for the bubbles to escape. Do we get such compression with this case?
The strip of plastic allows the cell to expand just a bit.
Otherwise, you just compress the foam and leave no room at all for expansion. Maybe they believe that it's good to have a little space.
And the lack if compression might be due to their change of design, they removed the middle separation but might have forgotten to reduce the compartment length.
Yeah, something is not great with this design or design change they did. I don't like having just these plastic stripes left and right between the cells.
Hi Andy,
you get an old Version of DIY 280L
Because, current version got a new footplate to prevent bloating. No more LEDs on the backplate.
Additional Topplate for the middle section. And last but not least flexible busbars.
Your documents are younger than your DIY Box.
Seems not a fault by seplos... You should talk with the person, which sent this box to you. 😊
Can we get in Contact, to combine our evidences?
Kind wierd to have Manual switching to get active Balancing. Because active balancing is provided by an additional PCB.
I'm on the way to build my recently received case. There is a poorly (I would say "not") documented wiring between the active balancer and the BMS v3 boards that allows the active balancer to automatically start its work. It relies on connecting the very badly named "dry contact interfaces" with 4 pins cables. Its behaviour is shown in video "Seplos 280L(3.0Y) when charging with Seplos BMS3.0 and active balance board's efficiency" on Seplos UA-cam channel.
@@matthieusevestre6401 well it looks more and more to a Community Battery Box, than a DIY :-). My boxes are on the way. I am excited about my customs reaction..."???WTF... Does it have a CE Sign???"
To Seplos' defence, they send me this box around 6 months ago. I just didn't have time to look at it. The DIY Kit may have changed now and the manual is now showing the new box.
Hi Andy. Very nice box.I need a vertical position for my needs. But i have some doubt about lifepo4 cell positioning. I know that cells must be positioned in vertical . In this box, they are on their side. Can it be an issue, for battery life?
I looks like seplos is one step before JK! If I may suggest an idea for a video, could you check heating pads for the inverter jk BMS? Maybe isn't the best idea for sunny, hot Australia, though.
I would not say Seplos is that close to JK, the Pace BMS is actually closer...
Yeah, heating is not really on my list but I will look into it...
Hi Andy, tks for your video. What about the version 3 with 2a actif balancer. Is it the same box? Have a good day
Yes, same box just with their active balancer mounted under the Coms PCB in the back.
Hi Andy,
I have got the same battery type, with the same version BMS. I found out that when you turn off the BMS when parralelling two or three battery's, and charge one of them, the BMS of the other two will also boot up and start charging.
Can you test this? It seems to me that this behaviour is not right, because the BMS of the two battery's has been turned off, to stop charging/charging, but they will turn on on themselves.
Yes, that is correct, they even do this if they have no communication cables connected. As soon as they detect a higher voltage, they turn on and start charging. That is even when the 'power switch' is turned off. Super annoying and a big design flaw!
Hi Andy, I also bought a diy SEPLOS 280L with Hithium batteries. When I turned it ON after assembling, it won't open, nothing happens. I checked the battery pack voltage , before BMS, it's 51.1V but in the P+P- of the battery terminal I got 44.43V . Is BMS defective or just sleeping? If sleeping, what's the best way to wake it up. Thank Andy hope you'll notice my concern. God Bless.
Hi Andy! Great video once again! You mention connecting two Seplos batteries in parallell. How many BMS batteries can be connected together in one? Is there a limit? Any difference if using a JK BMS instead? Thank you!
I think you can connect up to 16 batteries banks in parallel. That applies to most of these BMS, Seplos, Pace, JK...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thank you Andy! Lots of possibilities to expand then.
No active balancer still. EELS have neeeeeeey!
EELS have the JK BMS now as an option for their cases. I have linked that on my website already:
off-grid-garage.com/diy-kits/
Seplos has them on this model now, 280L version 3. However, this is the same Seplos active balancer that Andy tested earlier and is not very happy about.
The most interesting question is: can I put the New JK Inverter BMS into this Box? 😂
Hi Andy, I thought you didn't want to make any more videos about Seplos. But the housing still looks very good. But I agree with you, in the previous versions of Seplos there was an additional metal frame in the middle between the two rows of cells. But the BMS is a different hardware version, or am I seeing it wrong. All the connectors for the connections to the other boxes are separate and no longer on the board itself.
Let me ask you a question. Could the new JK BMS be installed there in terms of the dimensions? Well, the front panel might not fit, but will the screw connections of the BMS itself fit?
In any case, an interesting DIY pack and a great video from you. A little addendum. The Peter board is not the only board that connects different BMS systems. The BSC (Battery Safety Controler) also does this. It can also connect JK BMS, Seplos BMS and also JBD without any problems, monitor them and then control your inverters. Victron is included, Deye is included and a few other inverters. In any case, it speaks CAN or RS485 with the inverter as well as with the BMS systems. But does not control a BMS. The BSC does not do that. The Peter Board has an advantage with JK BMS. Have a look at it. Otherwise nice video. Looking forward to part 2.
No more Seplos videos? I didn't say that. I think they have great products... with some improvement potential😉
The JK will not fit into the Seplos box as per the mounting points. I will make an adapter plate with the 3D printer. Also, the display would need a larger cutout and the communication PCB will not fit any more.
It's much easier to replace the PACE BMS with a JK as I have shown here:
ua-cam.com/video/LDXcx5CunP0/v-deo.html
Andy I bought something similar and all I got was the shell case, the BMS, bus bars, Ballance cables.
I got No:
Bus bar
Off cuts of some 3M insulation doesn't make sense 😢.
Still waiting for the supplier to send / tell me how to configure the BMS. I had paid for the BMS to be configured as 😊.
Anyway they locked the 200Amp BMS. As I didn't realise I would need a USB to RS232 to communicate with the BMS.
Last time I saw you use RS485 to USB for the Comms. Spend days trying to do it but I can't. I had 300AH cells and the BMS is locked to 200Ah. They told me to just use it as is😮, I told them know. They then promised to get it fixed.
Still waiting.
Any ideas
You didn't tell us what BMS you bought with your case...
I been looking for a battery box but I don't see many 24v versions
Seplos has also 24V boxes:
off-grid-garage.com/diy-kits/
The Fuse Holder: Shouldn't the flexible bus bar be first put on the fuse holder bolt, then the fuse added afterwards (etc), not before as you have done. This would make changing the fuse much easier - not that I think it will ever blow.
Seplos horizontal box assembly manual (vertical one does not have this details - again, their crappy unconsistant manuals) shows (from bottom to up): bolt/washer/bus bar/fuse/washer/cut washer/bolt
From a contact perspective, it does not matter which order the bus bar and fuse is connected. I would hope you will never ever have to replace this fuse!
Hi, do anyone knows how thick those epoxy sheets are? looks quite thin. Is it 1 or 0,5 mm? can't be thicker than that.
They are 0.3mm thick from memory.
Question. I have a seplos with a passive balancer. How long does this passive balancer take to balance 280 ah cells. i have been waiting 20 hours and they are still not balanced. Should the balancer have time to balance the cells before the next start of battery discharge?
If those aluminum battery bus bars are only good for 56 amps does that mean that’s the max the 48v pack can output overall is 56a so: 2688 watts?
In theory, yes.
Why is the case not connected to battery ground? In case of a electrical fault the case could be a the battery voltage without BMS of fuse protection, not a desirable condition.
A ground connection would make no difference, absolutely no difference.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia
In my DIY solar system all metal work is grounded the battery negative and earth ground. My home made BMS has it charge and discharge Hexfets in the battery plus after the circuit breaker. Easy to use N Channel Hexfets in the plus side with photo voltaic optical couplers.
@@universeisundernoobligatio3283 I don't have any battery side grounded. There is no reason to do so in a stationary installation.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia
You are OK with the failure mode where the case can be a battery positive voltage?
@@universeisundernoobligatio3283 the cells are fully isolated against the metal case with epoxy all around. There is literally no way, the battery will move that much that it rubs through the blue heat shrink and the epoxy in one location and also penetrates the paint of the case. Impossible!
Like# 11
You did it!🥇
does seplos aligned that polycarbonated stics exhactly at the electrodes outplaces from the cells so they compresed physicaly or i m wrong ? ? i m almost sure those 3M stics compres the electrodes only ... and let the center expand and belly on foam!!!!
btw I m sure the busbars of the manual are laser welded and thats why are flexible.. couldnt figure out NUTS on em
No, it does not seem so, they place them further out, away from the electrodes.
I have 2 bms from seplos but I wasn't able to make the power switch work. No reaction whatso ever.
It needs to be turned on in the settings under function switches.
Andy 6Nm very little. You will have high internal resistance . I do 10Nm.
Nope no resistance. With these studded terminals, the contact area is very small so 6Nm is more than enough. Even 4Nm is fine. Tested here on the channel. ua-cam.com/video/EjBqng70ORc/v-deo.html
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I got the same M6 terminal. I first tried with 12Nm it was a little bit risky :D. I stopped at 10Nm it on an edge... Had and have 2 paralleled batteries. Internal resistance was about 6 and 9. The current was quite different. I disabled the 9miliom battery and did 10Nm. The battery resistance jumped from 9 to 5.5miliohms. I measured resistance between the centre busbar and terminals to be sure all terminal-busbar had the same resistance. After that, the currents became very close to both of the batteries.
Andy, you have to pay more attention to every connection, crimping etc... Resistance isn't a friend. Australia is a hot country.
Btw 3.65v is only if you want to disbalance the battery. I doing the test (3rd week)with the best control of balancing and charging. I think I found the way... The swamp is above the 3.45v. I would say a passive balancer is better. Can't say exactly coz don t have it. I would explain more, but... My communication skills aren't good and English very basic.
I could send you a screenshot of JK BMS . You would say you are crazy :D
Isn't it an issue that all of these dyi-cases come without any ventilation? I would expect some gaps for air to flow through.
There is no airflow needed. The batteries don't get warm unless you charge them with 0.5C or more for a long time. The case is big enough to act as a heat sink in most designs.
Genau das gleiche Problem mit der fehlenden Platte und der "Klemmung" der Zellen ist es beim normalen Gehäuse (Letzte Woche montiert 14.2.2024)
Exactly the same problem with the missing plate and the "clamping" of the cells is with the normal housing (assembled last week February 14, 2024)
Andy is using the 280L V3 version manual (production starting date approximately 12/2023) for a V2 version that is from Q2 or Q3 2023. Newest version of 280L does have the missing plate, and includes great improvements on the bottom support too. As you can see in the video, the V2 bottom plate (not compression plate, but true bottom plate) was irresponsible compression wise, with pressure only on outside parts of bottom cells. I hope Andy corrects this, because Seplos probably did not make this improvement without reason.
Thanks Andy just a shame you dibt build it 6 months ago when it was the current model
It's a shame, they did not include the manual back then.
What is the ideal force to compress. Does exist any data sheet for that?
Datasheet of LF280k tells 300 kgf.
please if you can deye inverters??
Morning Andy, beautiful day down here today. Did your son lose his power down toward Geelong? Like you showed the weather. Must get two Peters soon.
He kept his connection and had no power loss. He's getting solar soon and is thinking about a battery as well...
Rain has stopped up here so we can keep mowing... and mowing... and
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I know the feeling with the mowing.
🐸🐸🐸
🥈
Three point five Kg of compression? What manufacture specifies that please? That is the same torque applied to a Porsche 911 cylinder head, it sound a lot for some poor Ev cells 🤔
EVE specifies 300kgf of compression to get 6000 cycles.
I was actually thinking of just using spacers between my cells at the edges instead of actually compressing them in their area of expansion. If they want to expand just let them. Adding foam in the middle could be an extra precaution for anti rubbing. Expanding is not a bad thing, I think that preventing them from expanding might cause an issue in the long run.
But that is just my thoughts, and maybe seplos as well...
The cell manufacturer recommends compression
@@niktak1114 I know...
My guess is that the electrical energy of each charging cycle converts to some mechanical pressure in the cells. Some back/counter pressure from foam sprung compression may help limit the ability of cell chemistry to convert electric energy mechanical energy, but not entirely, so over time the effect builds up..just using my imagination not having a lab or done any further digging. If battery cases and cell manufacturers are doing this then possibly they know something I don't. If the electric charge can raise internal pressure of cells, then back pressure from compression may stop volume expansion, this lessened expansion may then prevent the amount of chemical reaction that is causing the pressure build up. That is, the electric-chemical-mechanical process is slowed down???
@niktak1114 it's not a recommendation, it's an option.
could have gone wrong (+) and (-) @24:50 🤞
Not connected at bottom yet, so no issue. Andy does this last, I assume deliberately.
I always leave on busbar off the battery. In this case it was the bottom link.
I am understanding the cells should not be place on their wide side? What gives?
They can be placed in any direction but upside down.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thank you. However, my EVE supplier said wide side down as last resort and they would not recommend as the electrolyte does not cover the internals properly. What say you?
Husk at dele de kolde øller med din kone Hi-HI Hernrik
Plan to stick with the passive balancer, or add the Seplos active balancer board? I've got 2 of these and not had much luck with passive balancer, even if I increase DVCC charge voltage (I havn't increased victron absorption voltage above 55.2v though).
I will build the battery as it comes without any modification to show what you get. We will see how the BMS performs and I also want to test them in parallel for a while.
Andy, did you lose all your Germanness?
Changing any part of a certified device will definitely void any certification. So according to the TüV it will most certainly burn down your house.
They told me this when they (the certified electrician) saw I filed openings on the busbar cover, so it could actually fit cables going in or fit back on when cables are connected.
If only other Germans would trust common sense a bit.
Things would be even nicer here.
Thanks for the video!
It soothes my ego a bit that a professional is also struggling with the Seplos manuals.
What certification?
pecebebee
Battery cells should not lie on the side. The vertical format boxes are not good in regd. to possible leaking etc. Battery cells should always point upwards.
Not true. Cells can be mounted in any direction but upside down. Over time, there will be no liquid electrolyte inside anymore as it is all absorbed by the separator inside. When the cells are new and you shake them, you can hear some splashing inside.
Seplos... 🙈
SEXLOS battery box
not good
What is not good?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia seplos missing compression feature ;-)
ridiculous expensive
Don't know what this guy is talking about...
Well, Seplos itself does not always offer terrific prices on their cases, due to high shipping cost when ordering individual cases. When shipped to Europe, in practice you pay $799 in total, while others offer local stock shipped for under $599. Seplos itself only becomes attractive price wise when four units are ordered, as I understand. Seplos should just refer to their local resellers. Now they lose market share to EEL (that does carry local EU stock), when comparing pricing on their own site versus Seplos' site.
@@ntram2 so it depends where you order from. Nothing new, you always have to compare prices. It's good to have some variety and options in the market now.