The yelling is for desensitization, both to feelings (hurt feelings don't matter when people are trying to kill you) and to external stimuli (war zones are loud, messy places). It is also designed to curb a recruit's sense of self importance. This is all reinforced with other aspects of training, but definitely has a specific purpose. EDIT: Cassie literally asked why he was yelling. I helpfully explained. So far a dozen people have told me to leave her alone. SMDH.
"This is an exaggeration, right?" No. The boot camp portion of this movie was 99% accurate." This from a Marine 1979-85. The only inaccuracy is that rifles are kept locked up when not in use.
@@jakester455 I had four years of military school before the Marines. On the advice of my recruiter, I kept that to myself, until my senior DI wanted to know why I was drawing corporal's pay and he outed me in front of everyone. My DI's didn't faze me, I'd seen worse and they knew that, so they enlisted a DI from the adjacent platoon who looked and sounded like the original Frankenstein monster (minus the green skin). This man came over several times a week and just messed with me. I'd taken martial arts and there was a possibility I might have been able to take him, but I didn't want to risk that, or the repercussions.
Can confirm, for the most part. Marine from 01-05 but at that point the physical violence from Drill Instructors was no longer allowed. Still had the insults which really helped pass the time. Everything that happens at Boot Camp is 100% necessary.
The only thing in the boot camp part that was different from my recruit training is that none of us shot our Drill Instructor. Otherwise, it was like seeing flashbacks of MCRD San Diego.
@@SirWilliamsHand _"Everything that happens at Boot Camp is 100% necessary."_ You know who else said something along those same lines? Members of Charles Manson's cult who were pissed on, publicly raped and otherwise broken and humiliated, only to be "built back up" with the cult as the only support structure. It's "necessary" to ensure absolute loyalty and obedience... right? Sorry, you are very likely unable to see it, but your mind has been messed with horribly, just as the minds of those cult members. Which may actually be the bigger tragedy... 😢
@@lessankey5287 I mean that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.. but I think this is a great film about a horrible war!! Yes it's hard to watch.... as it should be!!! but overrated it's not.
This movie tears at the soul and gives nothing in return. Not what I'd call a great film. I watched it many times(back when movie channels were limited) and hated it as a kid. Couldn't understand why everyone wanted to watch it all of the time after we graduated boot camp. The same "fans" never mentioned an interest in it again after 9/11.
R. Lee Ermey was a really nice person. He used to shoot with us at our monthly (civilian operated) rifle matches at MCB Camp Pendleton in the 2000's and was approachable by all. RIP Ermey.
@@tbirdUCW6ReAJ A big reason why that Texas Chainsaw remake is my favorite version is because of R. Lee Ermey's performance. Edit: It would absolutely traumatize PIB badly.
A close friend of mine, who was a Marine in the Vietnam war, said this movie was the most realistic rendition of what he experienced going through bootcamp as well as his time spent in Vietnam.
“I could have a private who can do nine pull-ups and damn it, when I'm through talking to him, he can do 12. Why? Because I've intimidated this private so severely that I've convinced him that he can do 12 or he's going to die. That's why.” - R. Lee Ermey
28:33, my dad was a Ranger in Vietnam and it really messed him up. Some of the stories Dad told me of what he saw over there were seriously shocking. I used to think he was telling tall tails. When my father passed away a few years ago, three men from his unit came to the funeral. I met them and they told me about who he was in the war. One of these men let me know that my dad wasn't exaggerating and my father had saved his life.
I had two uncles in Vietnam. Both of them were never quite the same after it. One uncle ended up eventually drinking himself to death. (And he was a mean damn drunk). We used to share stories after I got out of the Marines. I think I was one of the very few people he would talk about his time in nam with.(and he was one of the few people who understood why i would wake up in the middle of the night and couldn't go back to sleep till I checked the house and yard, and I mean I was still doing it damn near a decade after I got out of the military) The other uncle spent about the next 25 years high as a kite till the cops told him If he got busted again he was gonna spend serious time behind bars....so he switched to drinking. He makes some damn good wine but I honestly liked him better high than drunk.
More often than not, people say that they much prefer the first half of the film over the second. I myself love both halves about equally, but I get why people favor the first half, especially seeing as that contains the phenomenal performances of R. Lee Ermey and Vincent D’Onofrio as Gunnery Sergeant Hartman and Private Pyle respectively.
The movie was meant to smear the USA, a nation of liberators. Ermey was so good, as he did it for a living, it stole the show. And everyone that has gone to South Carolina or Georgia knows why recruits are treated that way. And it did not reflect poorly like Kubrick wanted. I'm stating my convinced opinion, as Kubrick nor any of them in Hollywood will admit it.
I think everyone should watch this movie even though it's hard to watch. As someone that served 20 years in the military, I believe the media, politicians, hollywood, etc tend to romanticize war. Hope this makes people understand how horrific war is before deciding to send young men and women off to war. I also served as a drill sergeant for 3 years and can explain to you the "why" behind some of the things the DI was doing if you'd like.
Probably the most surreal movie watching experience of my life was in 2006 when I was sent to Iraq as a civilian contractor. There I was, embedded with the Marines at Al Asad Airbase in western Iraq, and they pull out this movie. They could recite every word from the film.
Hollywood has to cater to the D.O.D.'s requests before they get cooperation and equipment. So I think a lot of the "romance" is at the D.O.D.'s insistence to prevent people from *not* enlisting. I knew before SAVING PRIVATE RYAN from reading veteran memoirs that my clumsy ass had no place in the armed services and war should be avoided at most costs.
Appreciate your service. I did twenty-eight years myself (plus time downrange as a contractor), and I appreciate that the film gives a glimpse at how basic training had been once upon a time. When I returned from the First Gulf War in '91, I visited my high school history teacher, with whom I'd maintained a friendship since I graduated ten years prior. He invited me to speak to a couple of his classes about the war, which I did. I'd gone into Kuwait during the ground war. I described in graphic detail what it was like walking through a field littered with destroyed Iraqi bodies - a torso here, a leg and head over there - as well as the smell of rotting corpses. With the country having been shown CNN footage of the precision munitions hitting radar sites, bridges, and buildings, I wanted the high school kids to understand that for all the hi-tech marvels of stand off weapons, there is a gritty and horrific side to war that many people don't see/hear about.
Retired Marine and Drill Instructor here. Gunny Ermy was a well respected Marine. This is the most accurate depiction of Marine Boot camp that civilians are alowed to see. Especially when I went through and when I was a hat. We will never show you everything, nor can you ever experience it without actually being there. This is Hollywood, but a well made and authentic movie. Semper FI
@@chappy48i remember when people were getting chewed out they would have 3 DI’s in their face and only one of them would actually be speaking words and the others were just straight up screaming in their face for the sake of causing chaos🤣
I was army Airborne Ranger then tier 1 operator went in in 86" They could still hit you back then and they did. We had the confidence course at ranger RIP they used to throw the company mascot sherman shepards cleaned up dog shit into the low crawl water mud pit I always wondered what was hitting my face crawling through it..until one day I saw a guy picking up the dog shit and dumping it in the Gig pit. lol
Parris Island grad here. 100% agree. My only nitpick about its depiction are the knots in those damn ropes. Ain't no damn knots...those were there because the actors couldn't complete the obstacle without them.
@@Apfelkind4000 As a person who has gone through both Basic Training and been in combat, what are you basing your opinion on? I am asking because Basic Training is essential to be horrible and cruel. It is meant to prepare you for combat. Think about it this way. If you are weak and so soft you can't take a little pain and people yelling at you while calling you names, you are DEFINITELY too soft to be my battle buddy when my life is on the line in a hot AO. I would rather find out you can't hack it in Basic than in combat. Edit: Instead of punching recruits, they now make them do pushups and flutter kicks which actually makes the recruits stronger while inflicting physical pain.
When a drill Sergeant spots a weak link in the recruits they double down extra hard. Believe it or not it's actually compassion. If the weak link washes out of basic training because "they can't take it" then the drill sergeant has saved their life. If the weak link makes it through basic training then they are no longer a weak link. And are ready to have the back of their brothers on the battlefield.
Hartman was a sadist and a racist and he drove Pyle to murder-suicide. Amazing all these commentors are taken in by Sgt. Hartmans obscene humor, he lacked the necessary insight to see that Pyle was out of shape and too immature for service. He should have been given a general discharge under honorable conditions.
The problem is I think Pyle was there as part of McNamara's Project 100,000 program so he couldn't wash out. Otherwise, Pyle would've been thrown out on his ass by the entire company. Hartman would've gone to his superiors and expressed how necessary it was to get him out of there.
That's about how it was. I served 20 years in the Marine Corp and two combat tours in Vietnam. The first tour as a machine gunner (0331) in 1965-66 and the second as a Platoon commander (0369) in 1970-71. I retired after 20 years and had a 30 year career as a California police officer ( Marin County). What I learned in the Marine Corps has helped me all my life. I highly recommend it to anyone needing direction and wishing to learn self discipline . Tom Boyte GySgt. USMC, retired Bronze Star, Purple Heart
Thanks for your service and your reply here. My dad served too (USMC ‘67-‘71). He didn’t do so well following his experiences. He wouldn’t, and perhaps couldn’t,watch this movie. Too hard.
It was wayyyy more complicated than just “north communists, south not, send help USA.” The country had been invaded and occupied and existed in a state of war for many decades before we ever got there. Ken Burns’ documentary about it is incredible if you’re curious.
I'll second the recommendation of Ken Burns' Vietnam Documentary and, although it doesn't directly cover the Vietnam War, I also recommend Oliver Stones' "Untold History of the United States for some true US History.
Vincent D'Onofrio does such a great job as Private Pyle. The way he goes from innocent, to emotionless, to talking to himself and finally to crazy scary is... Scary.
I was in boot camp in 1967. This was almost exactly like what I experienced including the blanket party.. 2 guys just kept fucking us all over by not being able to hack it.
I knew a Vietnam veteran, a former friend of my dad's. He saw action, was permanently disfigured from a grenade. I asked him once which movie was the most realistic version of his experiences and he named this film as well.
(1:29) Yes, this is required. It’s called the Induction Cut, or Induction Haircut. Originally one of the reasons for this haircut was to reduce the chances of diseases like head lice spreading among recruits in close quarters. The induction cut also serves a psychological purpose as it strips away the individuality of the recruits, promoting the mentality that they are all part of the same team. This haircut is usually performed within minutes or hours after arriving at boot camp, so it’s widely seen as a rite of passage for male recruits during basic military training. (9:41) Do you remember Hacksaw Ridge? The Captain of that unit mentioned Section 8, “psychiatric discharge.” This was a practice of discharging personnel from the US Armed Forces who were deemed mentally unfit for service. (11:00) Fire Watch simply put is Guard Duty. You work in shifts making sure that everything is secure, everyone is accounted for, and you often conduct chores and administrative tasks for the unit. (13:24-13:51) You remember back at book camp, Joker was assigned to be a military journalist as his occupational speciality. Now he’s in Vietnam working as combat correspondent with the Marine Corps. They are just like regular journalists, except they are members of the US Armed Forces. The job of a correspondent is to provide a fresh, up-close, and personal account to what’s happening in the field. So here they are discussing their news coverage of the war in Vietnam. When the Lieutenant talks about a “Search & Destroy” Mission, those were common operations carried out by US and Allied troops to seek out and destroy communist forces in South Vietnam. The idea was to use overwhelming firepower to kill as many enemy as possible to the point where the Vietcong and NVA would be unable to continue fighting the war. Basically what the Lieutenant is talking about here, is the public relations effort to help win the war. (15:06) It’s a slang term. The Americans called the Vietcong “Charlie.” The Vietcong or VC were a communist guerrilla movement in South Vietnam that was being supported by North Vietnam with the ultimate goal of uniting the entire country under communist rule. Fighting alongside the Vietcong in this war were the North Vietnamese Army or NVA (16:52). These were professional soldiers from the standing army of North Vietnam sent down to help the Vietcong drive out the Americans and overthrow the government of South Vietnam. 1968 represented the peak of the American war effort in Vietnam. For both sides the war had become a bloody stalemate, leading to the signing of the Paris Peace Accord on January 27, 1973. While this brought an end to American military involvement in Vietnam, it didn’t stop the fighting. In the spring of 1975, the NVA and VC launched a full scale offensive which conquered all of South Vietnam.
@Daniel Ramos You forgot another aspect of the cut. It saves the government money, since they literally charge recruits for the cut and deduct it from their pay. At least they did in the Army.
Small correction: the VietCong never actually existed except in propaganda. It was completely integrated into the North Vietnamese military and controlled from Hanoi.
Having served myself domestically and in combat zones within the last 15 years, the reason you treat new recruits like 'maggots', as he put it, is to breakdown any and all of the ego they came into the service with. People come from all walks of life, often with misguided notions about what it takes to be a U.S. serviceman. The idea is that by making everyone equally worthless and open to ridicule, you break down who they were before they came in and build them back up by teaching them that on a battlefield, each and every one of them is equal--metaphorically (rank still exists). The man to your left and to your right is your brother, regardless of any past prejudices or notions you might have had about them. You eat together, you train together, you sleep together and you suffer together until a bond forms that teaches you to willingly give your life for the man next to you if necessary. Unfortunately, sitting people down in a room and trying to get them to harmonize under normal circumstances just doesn't work. You can look at the state of the world and how people treat each other to get a notion of how well that would go over. By inducing stress and shining a light on the reality of what they're entering into, you get people to look past the superficial and work together to come back home safe. It's a necessary evil. Any dead weight or anyone who doesn't comply to this new way of life is likely to be the guy that gets you or someone you know killed when it counts most.
Scoop out the brains and identity. Fill the vacuum with patriotism and propaganda. A necessary evil indeed. Makes for good soldiers, which is the goal of this machine.
@@cristianbuttafuoco9876 The horrible misconception is that US soldiers fight for country. They don't. We fought for our brothers, even those we could not stand. "I'll screw with my little brother as hard as I want...You?...You keep your filthy hands to yourself or you deal with me..."
Another way to call this is conditioning - break someone down, and then form him or her into the machine you want to get out of this training. In the end it is not about ideals, but about a militray machine that relies on orders and discipline - the definition of unquestioned hierachy. The machine has to work, so cogs have to be produced that fit in that machine. This conditioning produces not "better" men, but just functioning ones for the purpose of the military. Everything else spun around this method is maybe good for morale, or self worth - but in the end fiction.
Most of the drill sergeants at the time had to look at casualty reports from Vietnam. They were used to seeing recruits that they trained on those killed in action lists.. They were hard on them in an effort to save their lives.
My dad was a Marine in Vietnam. He told me this was accurate, but the most accurate movie he had seen about the war was Hamburger Hill. RIP Dad. 1946-2021.
My uncle was a Gunnery Sergeant in the Marines who served multi tours in Vietnam and also said the same about Hamburger Hill, and my uncle was also a DI and he spoke to us just like R.Lee, in fact my uncle would’ve busted me down just for calling the Gunny by his name “That’s Gunnery Sergeant Ermey, Numbnuts”
My dad was airborne in Vietnam. He too thought boot camp was accurate as well as the movie Hamburger Hill. He died before We Were Soldiers came out- Would’ve loved to know his opinion on that movie. He was very particular on movies about Vietnam. Especially with uniforms and if patches, ribbons, etc were authentic. Even the landscape had to be accurate.
The Hamburger Hill scenario was not typical for the average Vietnam experience of the regular US soldier. It feels more like Korea War or even World War I, except they didn't have all that air support in those wars. And that is why they didn't have as many friendly fire incidents. To me, Platoon gives a better view of what the average combat soldier experienced day by day. Not saying the big battle at the end was experienced by every US soldier but the part of trudging through the jungle, setting up ambushes, going into suspected villages, searching for weapons and VC, etc.
My dad was a dust off medic in Vietnam and he wouldnt watch this movie past the boot camp portion. He said that portion was hard enough for him to remember and that the second half of the movie brought back too many bad memories and he would prefer not to remember. He said this movie was too accurate
I’m also a veteran. I felt so bad watching your reaction to this film. You have a very kind heart but like they said “The Marine Corp. doesn’t want robots. The Marine Corps wants killers. The Marine Corp. wants indestructible men, men without fear.”
I get the notion, but I've always been a bit confused as to why someone would willfully subject themselves to that in order to become something so simple and single-mindedly devoted to their efficiency at committing acts of extreme violence. Maybe, MAYBE I could see it if you were fighting for a government whose motivations are clear and noble, but our own government's motivations are a very far cry from either of those two things. I know that a lot of people join up because of a vague notion of glory, duty or patriotism and I get that, but if such is the case it seems like you have a lot more work to do in figuring out who you are and where you should stand on the geopolitical issues of the world before you make such a commitment.
@@jackrussell1232 You are so right, this is a book written by a retired U.S. Marines general,: ua-cam.com/video/ej7FdCDmW6A/v-deo.html it speaks the cold facts and makes for very interesting reading. I mysel am an honorable A ndischarged U.S. Army veteran deported to Mexico since 1997, one last thing I would like to mention that the Government turns you into a klling machine to serve their purpos, but after the war the NEVER provide any assistance ro guidance as to adapt to returning to civilian life after the war!!! And I would like to commend you on speaking your piece of mind God knows that takes a lot of courage!!!
The first part, Basic Training is to show you HOW they train and condition recruits to handle such horrific stress. The system weeds out the weak. Combat is the ULTIMATE stress, IF you can't handle basic training stress, you'll NEVER handle real combat.
Kubrick was one of the few film makers to have the guts to make a film like this. Marines are wired very differently from from normal people. That rewiring is not an easy process, and it’s more difficult to rework. Btw, the boot camp scenes are very close to the real thing. Today, DIs can’t legally strike a recruit. But accidents happen.
I think its necessary to change normal boys to this kind of Men for to survive in a War. In that way the Gunnery saves the lifes of many young Soldiers.
@@drhkleinert8241 yeah but still, you turning men into mindless robots. At my time in the German army, we worked with stationed American soldiers, and they were behaving like little dogs. They did nothing without command. It was creepy to see
I had the pleasure of meeting R. Lee Ermey twice. The first time he sat with me and a few other Airmen in a bar in Omaha for about an hour telling us stories about shooting the movie. The second time was a year later in the Kansas City airport. Both times he was kind and generous with his time. He loved his fans and couldn't have been nicer. RIP Gunny
Anyone I know who met him at gun shows, on the street, restaurants, etc- everyone of them say he was the sweetest person you’d ever meet and very humble/appreciative of his fame and fans. I won’t rehash how he got the part- But find it amazing how he could flip the switch and get in Marine mode. Many of those people begged him to “be a drill instructor for a moment”- and have him put them down with a line or two so they could say “Gunny ripped me a new one”. But all of them I know said he super kind at all other moments.
There's just something about watching one of the sweetest women in the world (you're in direct competition with your sister) watch Full Metal Jacket. It's almost heartbreaking.
Vincent D'Onofrio (Private Pyle) is such an underrated actor, in my opinion. He is a method actor, and his preparation and immersion qualify him to be mentioned in the same breath as Cruise, Pitt, and del Toro. I just love him, he is 100% convincing in every role I ever saw him act.
My recently deceased Great Uncle was a Marine. His drill instructor was literally R. Lee Ermey. Glad to say my Great Uncle Jim was an extremely sweet, good natured man.
Even R. Lee wasn't as bad as he portrayed himself in this movie. He was an actual Drill Instructor that they brought in to be a consultant and eventually they decided he was a better fit for the role than the guy they had gotten to do the character originally. I think even back then if a Drill Instructor got signs that someone was going to become a Section 8 they would have booted them once they broke down enough.
Oh yes, Gunny was a D.I. for a time. A few Marines who went thru Parris Island while he was there were asked if R. Lee Ermey was actually like that in real life. To a man, they said: "Nope.... he was WORSE."
I knew this movie would be difficult for you to watch because you're a kind and sensitive soul, but I appreciate you going through it. Sometimes we need to go outside of our comfort zones. Your reactions are always genuine and I appreciate that.
I agree. Also, I don't think Kubrick is an exploitative film-maker. But I like how delicate and decent Cassie is and I don't want her to ever lose that.
One tiny detail really drives home the duality of man that Joker represented. Look back at the scene when Joker shoots the sniper. As he points his pistol he turns very slowly and, as he turns, the peace symbol is eclipsed by the collar of his uniform. As the peace symbol disappears, the duality also disappears, leaving only "Born to Kill" on his helmet. It is at the very instant the peace symbol is completely hidden that Joker fires, killing the sniper. After the killing, the peace symbol returns along with a good man that is now deeply damaged by the war... Kubrick was the man.
My dad was a instructor in the Marine Corps. He was just as brutal to the recruits that's in the movie. their jobs to break them down, build them up and hope they come back home alive. If you thought he was tough on those guys, you should've been a only son, he expect the same for me. My dad was in the Korean war and He went straight to Vietnam. He always said he would served four Tours in Vietnam from one in Korean War.
Matthew Modine (Joker) is also in a WWII movie, The Memphis Belle. I'm not on your Patreon, but I am confident you'll be glad you watched it. It is very inspirational, and it is a true story. My grandfather was a mechanic at the airfield where the story takes place and he remembered the plane.
Great film, one of my favourites, as it uses actual planes and practical effects instead of cgi, and it also includes a young Sean astin (Sam from LOTR) too alongside other great actors !
And ironically, the airfield the Memphis belle bomber flew out of in England was bassingbourn which turned into a British military camp after the war, and was also the camp they filmed the basic training at in full metal jacket.
The guy playing the drill sergeant is R Lee Ermey, he was an actual Marine drill sergeant during the Vietnam War. He was just supposed to be a military advisor on set but he was so good they decided to cast him in the role of drill sergeant. I think he made up a lot of his lines on the spot.
My uncle served in the army at Vietnam. He couldn’t watch this movie all the way through. One thing that is very true is that stare. I asked him once about the war when I was little. He talked for a little bit and then just started staring into space. Freaked me out. Can’t imagine what he really went through. I never asked him again. RIP uncle Joe
My dad was in the Marines during Vietnam and when he seen this movie I asked him why they treated the new recruits like that. His reply was they not want to only make them physically tough but mentally.
Your reaction is exactly what Kubrick was going for. He wanted to make a movie that demonstrated the dehumanization of war, and show all of the contradictions encountered by those who fight in it.
Well said. The fact that Cassie felt uncomfortable with most of this movie is exactly why it's so good. There is nothing good about war. It's a dirty, terrifying business.
For me the first part is what works best, in the part, after the chilling bathroom scene, I already lose interest in the movie a bit, this is ok it is the second part in the war, but there are much better second movies to show The war part is better.
Sergeant Hartman's job is to make sure that when his recruits get to Vietnam they remember their training and employ that training without a second thought. His methods are brutal, but the lessons he teaches can determine whether or not any of the recruits come back home alive.
I spent 12 years in the Army and i was also in the Gulf War. Yes you are right. A drill instructor´s job is to get the Men trained and back home alive.
The German army, during World War I, followed the Prussian military doctrine. They believed that soldiers should be more afraid of their own officers than of the enemy. This caused a lot of 'fragging' incidents on the German side, long before fragging was made fashionable by the US armed forces in Vietnam.
Considering they had cut training time down to 90 days, there was no time to be nice. These guys would be in combat. Without their training they would come home in a coffin.
I agree. for the time period. True for the 90s as well, except for maybe the corporal punishment. D.I.s aren't allowed to strike recruits. That being said, I'd rather have taken a beating now and then than to have spent 30 minutes on the quarter deck with a D.I. in my face. my heart about to burst, screaming about how I'm not running in place fast enough.
@@captzero007 quarter deck sucked, but the sand pit was hell. I remember having sand in my ears for days before feeling clean again only to do it again.
@Penderyn Granted, there are many aspects of the armed forces that are cult-like. But the biggest hallmarks of what makes a cult aren't present. Namely... 1. You're not ostracised from your family 2. You're not forced to stay once your contract is fulfilled.
I'm two years late in finding this video I was on active duty for 13 years, and only went on three combat deployments. Watching FMJ again, after my time, I get the sense that Kubrick was trying to show the raw humanity, and human cost, of war with Vietnam as a set piece. Life in a combat zone has a lot of whiplash moments. The strange placement of popular music is just like war. When you're not out in the suck, music is a popular refuge. I don't know about anyone else, but all of my deployments were long stretches of boredom punctuated by some very acute events. War is ugly, and there are a wide range of reactions to contact. This movie does a damn-fine job of giving a view from the ground. I think you're *supposed* to be unsettled by this movie. Bottom line is war is a job, an ugly job. There are days, as a civilian again, that I miss the camaraderie, crude humor, and simplicity of being deployed with my Brothers and Sisters.
My Grandfather was in Vietnam. He never talked about it and I knew better than to ask. He's 87 now, and I can't even begin to imagine what he seen and went through.
My Uncle(Army infantry)was in Vietnam, and my father(Navy SeaBees) was among the first boots on the ground after Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Neither one would talked about what they saw, and we all knew better than to ask as well. And I still shutter to think about what they went through to get back to us!
There is a UA-cam channel: "Memoirs of WWII" that has short interviews of WWII veterans. Your Grandfather's story is important too and shouldn't be lost.
@@rana1561very true, they may "spread democracy" but the children were still killed, and more recently an Iraqi family killed 19 year ago by Marines surfaced.
My dad is a Marine Vietnam vet. We've watched this movie together. He told me that this was exact experience. This is a rough movie to watch but also an important movie to watch. Thanks for this.
The first time my father and I discussed this movie he pulled out his photo album. The city in this movie (destroyed) was a near match for the photos in his album. Great movie, but the sets are what makes it for me.
Gotta say, I never expected this movie to show up here. Every reaction was pretty much what I thought it would be though, and they're genuine too. Never change hon, never change.
Yeah the reaction felt pretty close to what I expected.This movie though is quite out of a lot of peoples comfort zone if they aren’t used to war movies. This shows the more honest cruel truth of what training used to be like in the US Army. At least that’s what I’ve learned as someone from the UK.
Welcome to the next edition of "Let's traumatise Cassie!" But seriously, I really appreciate your willingness to open yourself up to movies that can be difficult to watch.
The drill sergeant is R. Lee Ermey, who was a real life sergeant who served in the Vietnam war. He improvised over half of all his lines, so the shock on the recruits faces were real reactions lol. He may seem like a heartless person in the movie, but he was a kind man in real life. So sad that he passed away a few year ago :(
If I remember correctly he wasn’t the first choice for drill. The first guys lines were all scripted but it just didn’t flow right so that’s when he came in.
I served in the Marines early 2000s. Boot camp was no joke. Even today, Marine boot camp has kept its standard as being the toughest basic training in our military. The actor who played the drill instructor. R. Lee Ermy, was a real Drill Instructor, hence the amazing performance he died in 2018. Most respected Marine of our time
I think Chesty Puller's fame exceeds "gunny". Then again - Puller was the kind of man, that when shown a flamethrower for the first time, he asked "where do you mount the bayonet".
I dunno--I think that whole "it's the hardest" is mostly hype nowadays. Sure you guys do water training, but other than that, your boot really isn't that much different from ours (Army).
@@coqueslammwell6198 I'd say it's moderately harder...you guys don't get slayed or hazed quite like we did. But bootcamp is easy anyways. Recon school was several times harder (more comparable to RASP)
Regarding why the initial training scenes were so brutal, as you said: they’re being prepared to go into the worst situations they will hopefully ever experience. Subjecting them to stress of any kind will help to prepare them- if they can find ways to push past it in training they will be better prepared to push past it in combat. Ok the flip side, if they cannot push past it, it would be better if they break in training then if they break in combat. Well… most of the time, anyways.
That’s right, and also, during this time period of the Vietnam war, the drill instructors were given a VERY shot window to train the men that were drafted..they had to squeeze 12 weeks of training into 8 weeks…(I’m just a civilian 🤷🏾♂️.. correct me if I’m wrong) 8 weeks isn’t enough time to get a soldier ready for war
That's totally what they thought. But it turns out that it's a shitty way to prepare people and you end up with worse soldiers than if you'd skipped all the sadism and screaming.
Originally, the actor who played the gunman in the helicopter was to play Hartman. R. Lee Ermey was a technical advisor. Kubrick was so impressed with how Ermey was with the other actors in rehearsal that he asked Ermey to play the part.
Ermey was in a bad car accident during filming and stayed at Kubrick's house while he was recuperating where Ermey worked on his Dialogue for the movie
Actually Ermey was there on the set to help out with the army stuff to make sure the actors where on the right path, and suddenly he thought i want the drill instructor part and went to the producer and said to him that he wanted that part. i saw that in a intervieuw somewhere.
I was a drill sergeant from 2013-2019 in the Army Reserves. I have 13 complete BCT cycles, including 2 complete years on the trail from 2016-2019. The majority of my time as a Drill Sergeant was spent at Fort Leonard Wood. A lot has changed since the 1960’s, but this movie is not far off. I could have a VERY long discussion about the why and how of Basic Combat Training. And you would be surprised at how effective our tactics are in training recruits. Fun Fact, Lee was a family friend for years. My family worked on his show Mail Call through its entire run, and later on Gunny Approves.
I was a Drill Sergeant at Fort Leonard Wood from 1989-1992 with B & C Companies 87th Engineer Battalion. I remember getting troops ready for Gulf War 1 in 1991. When a cycle graduated separated the Active Duty personnel and marched them to their waiting buses with them all knowing where they were heading to. Guard and Reserve separated into another section and getting on buses to go home and telling them that they will be in the Gulf soon enough. Repeat for next cycle. I went through Basic in 1981 and Drills were doing their best to keep from smacking trainees up side the head but - yep - it DID happen. Fortunately I did not get smacked.
Two points about the training sequence. The Drill Instructors had an incredible responsibility preparing young men for combat. Anyone not properly trained would not only run a higher risk of getting themselves killed, but their mistakes would get other killed around them. This was made abundantly clear during the Vietnam War when Defense Secretary Robert McNamara lowered military recruiting standards as part of a program called Project 100,000. Its goal was to recruit 100,000 men each year who were otherwise mentally, physically or psychologically under-qualified for service. From the Project’s launch in 1966, through its termination in 1971, it allowed 354,000 previously ineligible men into the military. These young men who should have never been pressed into service suffered disproportionately heavy combat losses combat In Vietnam.
Well, we know McNamara was a war criminal and he as much admits it in his book. Some one tried to throw him off the Marthas. Vineyard ferry in the early 70s but he fought the guy off, I met McNamara on his book tour in '95, he gave off a palpable strong but evil vibe, I was shocked. His kids really suffered because they were in college at the time.
I read about McNamara seeing things about the after effects. The 'morons' as they were called said the training helped but the statistics say otherwise when compared to likewise low IQ civilians. Then the questions becomes how do normal IQ civilians compare to war vets who end up dead, make it home with PTSD and drug use and homelessness? Would those civilians likewise be better off it not more so than an average war vet from Nam, especially with those ratios of McNamara types in comparison? Because the way the statistics are always twisted when asking a base question you have to be sure what is compared and who asked it. Compare ratio to ratio to see what the outcome really is. Still 'wrong' since nobody had a choice in the matter, to be pressed into service. Draft is still there for emergency use but we see how 'emergency' always gets abused. But science is science and has nothing to do with morality.
The actor playing the drill Instructor was actually a drill instructor during Vietnam all of his dialogue was add libbed every bit of it was stuff he said to recruits when he was a DI
The guy who was the gunner in the helicopter was originally cast to be the drill instructor with R. Lee Ermey only working as a technical advisor, but he couldn't pull off the speed of duologue, so Ermey took over the role and turned in a truly masterful performance.
Kubrick had never heard the term 'reach around' which Ermey used in one of his many diatribes to the men. A crew member had to explain its meaning to the celebrated director.
Yes, some were draftees. Boot camp was 89 days and if you could not pass the midpoint physical, you were given the option of a medical discharge or go back to day one and start over. The three I knew, started over. The object of boot camp was to tear you down mentally and physically, then they rebuilt you to the image of the Corps. I seemed cruel, but it was effective.
I went thru Parris Island in the 80's (Plt 3037 Lima Co 3rd BN) and this movie comes closer to showing what it was actually like than anything I've ever seen. Semper Fidelis on Memorial day to all my Marine Corps brothers!!!!!
As a Marine Veteran with service in Iraq, I usually tear up along with you and some of these movies you react to like The Patriot and LOTR. This was one of the few times I was laughing uncontrollably at your reactions (bootcamp, not Vietnam). It did give me a different perspective and set me back a little though. Like maybe I shouldn't be laughing at these bootcamp scenes. I also got the chance to meet and talk with R. Lee Ermey in Okinawa. He's a good actor, not a real jerk. "It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it" ~General Robert E. Lee
My Grandpa got drafted and was sent over seas a week after my mom was born. My grandma said it changed him. And would have flash backs. I appreciate how much you honor your audience by sitting through this movie. Your reaction said it all. And you forced your way through it. I give you serious props. I love this movie. I always picture grandpa somewhere in these Vietnam movies.
At the end of the movie, when they are singing the Mickey Mouse song, it shows you how young these marines were and what they all had in common and hanging on to as kids...thats a great move by the director...It was meant to say that the soldiers in Vietnam were mostly just kids who werent supposed to be there to begin with
It's not like he wants to say "these poor kids!". Kubrick has always been consistent and crystal clear of what he had to say about men's evil desires, from Paths to Glory, to Clockwork Orange, The Shining, and then to Full Metal Jacket. It's to show how naive being an immature manchild(ren) and wanting to subjugate others leads to devastation of themselves and people around them. Good example: They get wrecked by a child and a literal bunnie toy.
As a former active duty Marine myself, I can tell you the first half of the film centered around Basic Training was likely a tame version of what happened in the 1960's at Parris Island. One thing all new recruits go through is shaving the head. It serves several purposes, from being easier to clean for hygiene purposes, to uniformity. There is a saying in the Corps that there are no individuals, everyone is "green", just varying shades of it. Having gone through boot camp in the 1980's for 12 weeks, it was a non-stop mind game of yelling in your face, physical punishment in the form of PIT time (Platoon/Personal Incentive Training), and given impossible tasks that could not be completed resulting in more verbal abuse and punishment. But there is a reason for this: battlefields or chaotic by nature, and if you can't take someone screaming at you, you're going to panic under fire which is bad, and is going to get others killed. The 2nd half of the film centered on the Battle for Hue City. Kubrick took a lot of creative liberty and tossed in lots of stereotypes of Marines. But Hue was unique for the Marines because they hadn't been trained in urban city fighting, so casualties were high. It's a misconception that the US did poorly, or "lost" in Vietnam. They won every battle they fought against the NVA or the VC. But politicians controlled every aspect of the war, limiting which targets could be hit, tying units down into static positions only to win the objective and leave for it to be re-occupied by the NVA/VC, so it had to be re-taken again. When the US casualty count began to rise, politicians feared for losing support from their constituents, and the decision was made to pull the US out of Vietnam leaving the ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam) to stand against the North. They were overrun and surrendered. Oh, and in to clear up some confusion about who or what "Charlie" is, its a military adaptation of the phonetic alphabet. Viet Cong forces were called VC, or Victor Charles, shortened to just "Charlie".
And as the Charlie thing my dad did 2 tours in Vietnam with the 1st inf division and the 9th inf. And he didn't call them Charlie he called them gooks.
First up the US lost In Vietnam. We have the film of helicopters lifting US personnel off the roof of the US embassy in Ho Chi Min City to prove it. The pictures of US helicopters being pushed off carrier flight decks to make room for more evacuees also show just how humiliating the defeat was. The defeat occurred on the battlefield not in the US. The US army in Vietnam got its arse kicked repeatedly. By 1967 it was obvious that the war was lost and could not be won. The claim that the US army never lost an engagement is just bullshit. It lost repeatedly from Khe San down to he Mekong delta. For most of the war the US was occupying beleaguered garrisons that could just about hold the ground they stood on and their current field of fire but held nothing else. When and where US forces could identify PAVN or irregular units and use either artillery or air power to attack them they could inflict terrible casualties. However when the Vietnamese got them by the “belt buckle” and prevented the use of artillery and air power US forces got roughly handled. Often losing. The typical engagement was a close in ambush of a US patrol. When cowboy says they are being set up for an ambush it is because he has been ambushed repeatedly in similar circumstances. Contact would be initiated by the Vietnamese typically at very close range, typically 5 to 10m away inflicting immediate and substantial losses. The fire fight would continue while the Vietnamese thought they were inflicting damage and end with the Vietnamese withdrawing in good order and the patrol badly mauled. The US forces would claim victory in such engagements by claiming to have killed more enemy than they lost. However many of these Vietnamese losses were imaginary, like the deaths Joker is ordered to fabricate. Many Vietnamese losses where people were actually killed were in fact south Vietnamese civilians and many of their friends and relatives would either join or support irregular units afterwards. When the door gunner says “if they run they are VC” he is quoting actual rules of engagement issued to US forces in areas thought to have irregular forces present. The purpose of the abuse isn’t to stress proof the training. That can be done without inflicting psychological trauma. The psychological trauma has a different purpose it is to dehumanise the recruits, to remove their innate sense of self and sense of morality. So that when they shoot at women and children they don’t lead them so much. Or don’t bat an eyelid when ordered to lie in the gutter taking photos up Ayn Rand’s skirt as Raptorman is.
R. Lee Ermey, who plays GSgt. Hartman, was a real life drill instructor. He improvised his entire performance with the exception of a few scripted lines. He should have won the Oscar for best supporting actor.
As many Marines will tell you. It's pretty accurate, at least for its time. Nowadays the drill instructors can't really touch you, but there's just as much yelling, name calling, and of course being worked into the ground everyday for 3 months.
I did the 13 week "Summer of Love" in 1991. They were phasing out "hands-on correction" but there were a few Drill Instructors that hadn't read the R&I board for that just yet. Good times.
MCRD SD 1984 - DI's could not touch you then (at least not with malice) , but it certainly happened when no officers were looking. Every character in this movie had a counterpart in real life for me with Pyle being a composite of everyone's foul-ups in one character. One recruit messed up his request to use the head by saying "Sir, private requests head sir" rather than saying head call. The boot camp segment is very accurate and fact one could say partly toned down. I saw guys piss themselves in fear, on more than one occasion. The DI's were brutal, but they have to distress the recruits so they learn to function under duress. Push them past their own perception of physical limits but also to not exceed them and instill self confidence.
@@michaelwoods9005 I never got head-butt, but I had the brim of the Smokey hit me on the bridge of my nose several times. Felt like it was reinforced with metal. Very effective "no touching" technique.
I was an Infantry Drill Sergeant for 3 years in the Army. There are instructional and psychological reasons for the cruelty. Helps to quickly break down who they were and try to replace it with a different value system where they might have to follow an order that could lead to their death without hesitation.
@@Warentester it is. Hesitation in combat leads to not only you being possibly killed or injured but those around you as well. The difference between now and then is the draft. Our Army, including combat arms, is entirely volunteer, so no one has been forced into a combat heavy field in over four decades. If you feel the training is cruel or unnecessary simply don't walk into your local recruiting station, problem solved.
@@Warentester Thats what soldiers are made to unfortunately, they go to kill and die, world saw what happened in WWI and they realized that you need senseless killing machines to fight a proper war, most people would never go to war if they weren't brainwasher by some shit power hungry government
@@Warentester, good, bad, or indifferent, it had to be done in order to get people in a state of mind that would raise their chances of survival in high pressure situations.
I like that you don't try to make any analysis or something like that, you just experience the movie and voice your thoughts to us. Very, very refreshing content you are making.
My dad was Navy, on a Destroyer in Nam, he said for people that could not cut it, they got the bar... The instructors were tough on these guys, because the environment they were going into was worse. I will forever love all those folks, all Branches of the US Military for doing what a lot of people don't have the brass to do... 🇺🇸
The training has to be brutal so that they can learn to function in extremely brutal and stressful situations. He is so mean to Pyle because he knows that in battle, he could be a liability to the rest of his platoon. Also, his treatment teaches the other privates to work together. If Pyle can't pull his own weight, people can die. If the team can't help him pull his own weight, people die. But if they can all learn to work together, they can learn to survive.
Exactly! Look at what our military pumps out now. It's pretty embarrassing compared to just 10 years ago. I have respect for our soldiers. They go through hell to fight for our freedoms. But the soldiers these days aren't even familiarized with our constitution or rights! They're becoming as bad as... Well I won't go there. I respect our military err I mean our soldiers. Not all but most of our soldier of today... Lol nevermind.
It has to be brutal because that's what's required for the brainwashing to set in. There's little difference between boot camp and a cult, except boot camp works faster.
The thing about the movie is that everything in that war was pointless. There was no stragety for winning, and it left the troops not feeling that they were there to do nothing more than to kill. It wasn't a war the politicians & high command were trying to really win, they were there just to stay and fight and keep the fighting going. If they were trying to win, they'd have pushed into North Vietnam, but they didn't. So there was no chance to defeat the enemy, but just to keep fighting them. We like to think that in wars we were fighting for our freedom. For the most part that's been true, but it wasn't in Vietnam. Vietnam was a war for the sake of having a war. People will argue the point of that war for years, and nobody will come up with a good answer.
The strategy for "winning" was to kill the enemy at a rate of 12 to 1, and teenagers were used to do that killing. Vietnam veterans were then scapegoated and America washed its hands of all responsibility. The point was to stop communism from succeeding in Vietnam, the Vietnamese fought to get foreigners out of their country. We killed them at a 12 to 1 ratio but they didn't quit. This war was planned by WW2 veterans, the so-called "greatest generation".
Any drugs involved to support Vietnam war for guns from either side?… like South America and Central America. CIA was letting cocaine move in USA sold it to gangs in LA-made crackCocain, money converted into guns for rebels to fight “communism” civilians caught in between fled towards USA and once those that had supported from USA abandon them(like Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan) escaped towards gang infested LA..fueled street war Bill Clinton deported gang immigrants back.. fueled violence in a weak government than more migrants come to USA to flee a torn country seeking asylum….
If there was one movie I could ever see on this channel for the sincere, gut wrenching reaction so sympathetic to the experiences conveyed, it is this one. Rest In Peace Dad (1949-2020, USMC ‘67-‘71).
Vietnam is a graveyard of Empires like Afghanistan. In Vietnam there were the Japanese, the Chinese, the French and the US. No one could win there. Why? Because the Vietnamese never used real Army. In a real Army vs Army like Korea or WW1 and 2 Vietnam had no chance. And in fact: Think about the Vietnam War if the VC dont get the help from China and NorthVietnam.
@@drhkleinert8241 Interesting, and true. I think even Alexander the Great got bogged down in conflict in the mountains of Afghanistan. I’d have to double check the history through.
NO this was NOT an exageration, in fact, the boot camp scenes may have been portrayed significantly gentler than they actually were back in those days, the point is to teach out a lot of things that you have already learned that can be detrimental to the mission, and teach other things to be second nature that can help you survive combat, but mainly boot camp teaches you to not be stingy and self centered and to think of your brothers and your unit before yourself.
When I was in basic training, my TI's said all the things R Lee Ermey said. My reaction up to the last scene in the latrine was humor, I laughed throughout remembering my days. Funniest thing I heard while our heads were being buzzed, one of the barbers asked the guy next to me if he wanted to keep his sideburns. Of course he said yes, the barber then handed him a mess of his hair and laughed. And as a sidenote, R Lees opening dialog is the longest ad lib scene in movie history. As a longtime resident here in the Antelope Valley, R Lee was a great human devoted to the veteran community. He is missed.
My dad fought for the US army in Vietnam. I'm not going to relay to you the stories he's told about his time there. I personally chose to go into the Navy. I've seen lots of depictions of boot camp, but this was by far the most accurate. We had at least two people like Pyle in our division. We all tried to help them along, but would often be punished for their shortcomings. I went onto submarines. That was some of the worst times of my life. Yes, there were people who killed themselves because the pressure is immense. You're in a metal tube in the ocean. The lives of over a hundred other people rely on how well you do your job. Learning how to fight fire and flooding was essential. Learning how to apprehend intruders was important. Weapons combat was learned for when we're pierside during refit, in case terrorists attempt to board the vessel to steal intel. I had a Secret clearance, which was necessary because I was surrounded by information that could jeopardize the security of our country if it fell into the wrong hands. Part of getting my Secret clearance involved revoking my dual citizenship with South Korea. Yes, this film is difficult to watch, but not because it's surprising. Because it's real. I've known people like every single one of those characters. Like them or not, I had their backs, and they had mine. We were all we had.
I got my draft notice in 1971. I figured four years in the Navy doing a tech job was better than two years playing grunt. I had a lot of choices. I'd scored 100 on the Armed Forces Qualification Test at the recruiters. Then scored high on everything else later. A SEAL came to see me and I said no. Then they wanted me as a Communications Technician (it had four components then) I said no. Operations Specialist. No. I had no objections to the choices except that they all required a six year commitment. My intent all along was to do four and go bac to my job at the telephone company. It didn't have to let me back after four years. So I was made a Construction Electrician in the Seabees. It worked out alright. I was still mostly in my field working in the telephone exchanges. After that I went to a public works. I learned building maintenance, scheduling, manpower management and various trades. When Ma Bell laid me off in1985 I was ready to start a business. The four years wasn't a waste of time. If I hadn't had the job to go back to I could have stayed. I made E-5 in four years. I was offered a $30K reenlistment bonus and 105 week school with the Army Signal Corps. But I turned it down for the phone company job. I have some regrets. The job had turned shitty and after AT&T was broken up I was laid off. But I kept on keeping on. You do what it takes to move on.
My dad served two tours in Vietnam and he didn't want me following his footsteps and enlisting in the army so instead I enlisted in the marine corps lol
I'm a Marine from 1984-1988, close enough to the war that most of my Staff NCO's and Field Grade Officers had one or more tours in Vietnam. Most of them were still sore about how it all went down. I can tell you that the boot camp footage was almost 100% accurate. Very, very accurate indeed. I believe the combat and in-country footage was made to be as "real" as possible so that people could appreciate the price that our veterans pay for all of our freedom. I believe you are a good hearted, intelligent young woman and I could see how confusing and hurtful all of this was for you to watch. It is important and meaningful that you made that effort to see, feel, and understand this. The simple truth for everyone who has served, in any branch at any time in war or in peace is that none of us are unscathed by our service. All have given some...and some have given all.
Having been through Marine Basic Training in 1969 at MCRD Parris Island, SC I can tell you with authority that, in 1969 this was the program that I went through. This is by far the most accurate depiction of Marine Basic Training I have ever seen! The ONLY exception is that it is virtually impossible to sneak live ammo from the rifle range! When shooting, we are issued X number of rounds for that firing line and must return the same number of empty cartridges to the NCO in charge. Failure to do that and the entire range is locked down until the missing brass is recovered. The reason for the harsh treatment is simple and effective. At that time the Marine Corp felt that if they could break down an individual in a safe environment then that individual would most likely crack under the stress of combat, getting himself killed and probably some of his buddies as well. Yes, there were a lot of head games, a lot of physical abuse as well. Every single recruit in my platoon got hit at least once, some more than others. It taught us self discipline and pride that we could take what ever the DI through at us! When we graduated and were called "Marines" for the first time we felt like there was no power on earth that could hold us back, except for a Drill Instructor!
As A VN vet, and a USMC vet, all that you see was more than dramatization, it was real life. I lived thru many of the events portrayed in the movie. From Boot Camp, to be in-country. This movie and Platoon were as close to being there as you might want to get. A round from a vc rifle, after 8 brief 8 months. But I did get 17 confirmed kills, a fact that at age 69, I am not proud of
I think it is a "refreshing" experience after the WW2 movies. The thing is: WW2 is regarded as one of the big heroic wars of the US, so therefore it is heavily romanticized, while the 'Nam war had a very negative press at its time and even today. It is generally regarded as a senseless war fought to serve US political and military, and weapon industry interests. Regardless whether these portrayals are accurate or not, it is how they were seen in the bigger public. So in WW2 movies you can see big heroic epic, and in Vietman films (like Apocalypse Now, Deer Hunter, Platoon) you will see a senseless crippling war. Also WW2 was fought by a traditional generation with a sense of duty (and even with a bit of naivety) and the Nam war by a more cynical generation who grew up with Sex, Booze, and Rock and Roll, so you will see quite different soldier personalities in those eras.
@@attieschutte7116 Although by some definition a German soldier may be described as brave, the fact the German war effort was basically crimes against humanity, it would be unlikely any one of them would be honored with that term.
@@stevenmeyer9674 I don't care about ideology, or war effort or results. I am talking about a or any individual event that went the other way around raping Americans being hunted down by brave German soldier - now there is a movie. It has reached a point anyway where viewers are suppose to be scared of vampires, zombies and Nazis. It is not a political ideology it is mythology by now.
Well with WW2 there was a clear line with clear enemies who could easily be called "bad actors", "aggressors", etc. There was a multi-national alliance operating in multiple theaters and the service men and women clearly believed they were saving the world from something evil. Vietnam had NONE of that, it was sketchy from the get-go and quickly fell apart from a conventional war into chaos, with guerrilla fighters fighting under the guise of civilians to help paint the US troops as civilian-killing monsters. So you had an elusive enemy, a very intimidating neighbor who was friends with the enemy (China) watching closely, and an unsupportive public back home shitting on troops many of whom were drafted and didn't ask to go, and Jane. Fucking. Fonda. It wasn't just "sex booze and rock n' roll" that broke our troops. Communism was a threat but it wasn't the balls-out blitzkrieg threat that Nazi Germany and Japan were, and it just didn't feel worth it.
My army training was exactly like this. I was 17 when I joined. You ask "why treat them like this ?". It's to break you down first to rebuild you as a soldier. And a soldier that can function in a unit. We also had a guy like Pvt Pile who shot himself. This movie very closely resembles my army training. Even the shouting.
He visited us on the line in 2003 for Mail Call and during one of the breaks he did the intro speech line-for-line. It was chilling. He did an autograph session afterward. I still have the camelbak he signed. He wouldn't do anything other than "Semper Fi! R. Lee Ermy" and that was great. A couple of our mechanics were in line giggling the whole time. They got up there and the next the we heard was "HO-LY Shi7! Saving SILVERMAN!" I love being a Marine.
@@angelfontanez9936 The actor that Ermey replaced later was used in the chopper gunner scene. I think it was best he was replaced, he was better as that nutty fucker on the gun than as Hartman.
I went thru Paris Island in the early 1970’s, the Vietnam War was just winding down. It may be very hard for you to grasp, but for most of us it was an amazing experience. By then we were transitioning to an all volunteer force, and actually being struck by a drill instructor was less common than depicted here. Like virtually everyone in my platoon, I was a volunteer. It was brutally hard, but very carefully monitored. The single most unrealistic was the unsupervised recruit with a weapon, that just did not happen when I was a boot. The language in the first week was astounding, the stress was incredible, but within days we could spot who among us was worth fighting along side. This training is primarily designed to create a bond between you. From the time of Sparta, the Concept of bonding two, then 5 soldiers together in a very small team that will not desert each other has been how armies have avoided the disaster of units breaking in combat. Believe it or not, by the forth week, there were reactions between the DI’s and boots that were hilarious, and although they happened to me almost 50 years ago, guys from that time period still will laugh about them.
I got my butt kicked the night before graduation while I was firewatch by a drunken DI from another platoon. He came into my squadbay by mistake and thought I was in the wrong one. My SDI came out and put a stop to it. He took me inside the DI hut...which I had never been in...and asked if I wanted to press charges. I said, "No sir!, This recruit wants to graduate tomorrow and be a Marine." He sent me back to my rack like nothing happened. I told my Mom the bruise on my forehead was an accident on the confidence course. Was it tough? Yes...especially since I was at Parris Island from June through August. But I don't regret a second of it.
@@kennieharris327 Semper Fi! And sorry that happened to you but most of my platoon would have done the same as you. I was lucky, my Drill instructor was a short, powerfully built man of unbelievable composure and discipline. He looked every bit the Drill of legend, but was promoted in the middle of our cycle, and was replaced by a tall lanky marine with a bit of a pot belly, and spoke softly. As a platoon we were disappointed, he just did not at first glance measure up. We quickly learned that soft spoken and not ram rod posture ready Marine Sergeants could be hard and relentless task masters. Learned a lot I will never forget from both those men.
The reason for the verbal and physical treatment that begins immediately in boot camp is the beginning of prolonged stress inoculation. They purposefully create a "hostile" environment to cause stress and trigger a person's fight or flight reaction to weed out those that can't function in that environment. War is 24/7 stress and if you can't handle it for long periods, then you become a dangerous liability to your teammates. They all get their heads shaved to put them on the same level regardless of who they were in society and those marching chants are for rhythm (so they can march longer) as well as cohesion and comradery -- to rely on each other in a crappy situation, which is what they have to do on the battlefield. There is no "nice way" to prepare the average citizen for war because of the relatively short amount of time to train them. The fight or flight response requires you to actually think you're in danger, so, it is what it is.
@@derworfnet I’m pretty sure Hartman and Leonard followed what was written in the script for dramatic effect. No one is forced to stay in boot camp, you can be discharged.
It's not (only) stress inoculation, it's a process of mental and physical abuse to break you, and "build you back up" with the group as the only support structure, so that you will be absolutely loyal and obedient. It's _precisely_ what a lot of cults have done and still do, and the members do the exact same thing you're doing here - find excuses for the abuse they went through, declare it as "necessary" and all that bullshit. Sure, it "works" for the purpose it's designed for, but it's demonstrably not necessary. Not to mention that it changes your personality to what the "instructors" want. Don't US Americans value their freedom and individuality...? I thought I heard something about that... must have misheard...
My brother completed Basic Training in 1991. He said this movie was shockingly realistic to his experience. He brought home a 'yearbook' of sorts that had the enlistment photo of his entire barracks. He asked me to look at the pictures and see if I could find which ones 'washed out'... it was surprisingly easy. There were three that looked frightened or empty or naive in their pictures. One specifically reminded me of Lawrence. They did not complete Basic.
When I saw you were going to watch this, my first thought was "oh, she's not going to like that..." Definitely an uncomfortable movie, but you pulled through it with flying colors. Thanks for sharing!
In regards to Pvt 'Pyle', during the vietnam war there was something called 'Project 100,000' (also informally known as McNamera's Morons). The idea was to take men who had lower IQs and mental deficiencies who NEVER would have been able to meet the military's standards, and subsequently draft them. The official reasoning was that they'd take these 'low functioning' low IQ men and give them life skills through the service. But the sad reality was they were basically to be used as cannon fodder. The majority of the 'morons' were sent to the frontline infantry and a good percentage would never come home... Leonard 'Gomer Pyle' Lawrence really had no business being in the Marines, but was likely drafted as part of the project.
The marine corps even in Vietnam was volunteer only nobody was drafted into the marine Corps they might have to joined the Corps to avoid being drafted into the Army.
@@CenlaSelfDefenseConcepts Nobody was directly drafted into the Marines like they were into the Army, but in times of recruitment shortages; they would often divert draftees from the Army to the USMC. Also, the Marines were the branch most people were trying to avoid as they had the highest death and injury rate of any of the armed forces in the conflict.
Having gone through it, that was boot camp. It worked as long as you realize that it is not personal. Everyone had to endure it and if you could do that it was actually kind of fun. Remember that they are preparing you to travel the world, meet interesting people and kill them. In that context it works
@@skylinerunner1695 American and maybe brit humour is going around the world and killing people of developing countries to become "men" and feeling bad about it later on. Arrogant.
This movie was one of the reasons my dad joined the Marines in the late 80s. He went to Camp Pendelton for bootcamp and he told me it was exactly like this movie only they didn't use racial slurs nor were the DIs allowed to hit them and such. If my dad didn't join the Corps I wouldn't exist since it's how he met my mom who was in the Navy. Anyway I followed my moms path by joining the Navy in 2018 and currently still serving!
@@vidarvaggen Actually it was a combination of this movie and his boss at the print shop he worked at. His bosses son had joined the Marines and my dad was 27 with no life direction. His boss told him how his son was doing great in the Marines and my dad wanted to leave small town Missouri and do something with his life. He only saw this movie after that and it sorts encouraged him. My dad was in a typical poor working class lifestyle so it was only natural. He'd either stay in the trailer park or go out and become something from the military.
R. Lee Ermey, who played the Drill Instructor, was a real life DI who replaced the original casting, He was one of the only Actors to work with Stanley Kubrick and actually improvise his lines. Something Kubrick was known to never allow.
The song "The Bird" refers to the helicopter. It was a big hit back in the day. In the army, you want someone who is mentally, physically and emotionally strong to have your back. Not someone who is sensitive or weak. That's why they break you down in training. To rebuild you!
The guy in the chopper, shooting at the civilians, initially would play the drill sergeant. Lee Ermy outdid him in an audition (from his own experience) and got the part, 'becoming' the first half of the movie.
Next, you should definitely look at Barry Lyndon from 1975. It’s one of the most amazing Kubrick films I’ve ever seen and also far too criminally underrated masterpiece.
@@georgesykes394 No, it's not. Eyes Wide Shut and 2001 are his greatest artistic achievements. Not to take away anything from Barry Lyndon which is also a masterpiece. But Eyes Wide Shut allowed Kubrick to express himself more than anything he ever done and, by his own admission, it's his greatest contribution to art. Story and writing wise, Barry Lyndon is less impactful and relevant. In terms of craft, his core films are all on the same level.
@@FuzzyDlop That's your opinion Barry Lyndon in my opinion is his best work. The lighting in the scenes are phenomenal each set looks like a Oil painting the plot was interesting the score marvelous. The attention to detail in the movie is extremely well done. Especially when you look at the back story on how he actually went to NASA to get the cameras and lens to film the movie. Even before Ryan O Neal was cast in the movie he did wardrobe fitting over 6 months before production. And then sent him to Fencing school in preparation for those scenes in the movie.
Ermey had mentioned in an interview that they were much more brutal during this time, because they reduced the time in basic training. The DIs felt it was important to help reduce the chances of them getting killed in Vietnam.
The movie is about man’s inhumanity to his fellow man wether it’s from the boot camp scenes to the war. I was on the Island in 93 and our DI’s always said that each recruit came down with his mom on one hand and a senator on the other hand were the DI’s mean absolutely but that was to prepare you for the horrors of war
Cassie, I had a feeling this film would be too harsh for you. There are other films about that war which may be a little easier to digest. I would highly recommend Robin Williams in "Good Morning, Viet Nam". It's a true story about an Army Radio DJ who helped lift the troops spirits during the war. It's more of a comedy but it also has a lot of realism and some battle conflict scenes. You should watch that film, to offset the "burn" of the Stanley Kubrick film.
@@BuccWylde you could be right. Sorry for the oversight. I just assumed it would be the Army running the radio station, based on nothing at all. Bad guess.
This movie has always been polarizing and based on a lot of the comments, I see things haven't changed. This channel is centered around Cassie's reactions to these movies, not around the way we think she should react. She chose to watch a war movie for Memorial Day; for that I give her two thumbs up! No two people are ever going to react to any given situation exactly the same, so being critical of someone's reaction is asinine. If a person has not been through basic training, then no , you can not expect them to understand basic training. Movies are glorified entertainment and rarely ever come close to what real life situations truly entail, but they evoke emotions and reactions just the same. Not everyone jumps at every jump scare..... are they wrong? Of course not. Cassie has stated on numerous occasions that many of these movies will be hard for her because she has either avoided these types of movies up til now or they might be about subject matter that she is not comfortable with seeing or experiencing. Criticizing her reactions seems strange when I feel it would be a great time to say " Hey Cassie, good job. At least you gave it a try ". Even if she chose to never watch another war movie, she still has this one under her belt for reference. I'm sure this left her with lots of questions...which is the beginning of learning. Sorry for the long post.
Cassie has a tender heart and she is a lady. I am glad she choose to watch a Vietnam era movie, but it hurt my heart to watch how painful it was for her. The language alone is extremely vulgar and she is a lady and I don't approve of subjecting her to this. I guess I'll agree to disagree with you.
Outstanding and perfectly worded. This film is a very tough watch for many folks and based upon what we know about Cassie, (who is by all evidence, an incredibly sweet person) nobody should be surprised by her difficulty viewing this one. Personally, I think Full Metal Jacket is an incredible movie with iconic performances from very gifted actors. I also get why quite a few people I know don't appreciate it in it's entirety.
Man, when she immediately seemed bummed about them losing their hair... I knew it was going to be a hard one for her to experience.
so when did you receive your military haircut?
I was actually worried about her when I saw she watched this movie.
@@davisworth5114 January 4th, 2001. I remember like it was yesterday. 6 swipes and they were done.
@@davisworth5114 March 2nd, 1996. There was a lice outbreak in my school. Cried like a child.
@@davisworth5114 July 5th 2011... Legend has it that the great lakes dragon lady who cut my hair in a matter on seconds is still there to this day
The yelling is for desensitization, both to feelings (hurt feelings don't matter when people are trying to kill you) and to external stimuli (war zones are loud, messy places). It is also designed to curb a recruit's sense of self importance. This is all reinforced with other aspects of training, but definitely has a specific purpose.
EDIT: Cassie literally asked why he was yelling. I helpfully explained. So far a dozen people have told me to leave her alone. SMDH.
You forgot the most important part. By making them hate him, he is making them bond. Team building
I was called a waste of oxygen, and choked out as part of a demonstration on how to do it correctly.
@@godmagnus Never met anyone who has served that regrets what they learned in basic training.
@@CarbonPixel78 Truth
@@godmagnus It's a movie big guy.
"This is an exaggeration, right?" No. The boot camp portion of this movie was 99% accurate." This from a Marine 1979-85. The only inaccuracy is that rifles are kept locked up when not in use.
I read a comment under a video of the boot camp portion, it said something like "It was pretty accurate but the drill instructor was too nice."
@@jakester455 I had four years of military school before the Marines. On the advice of my recruiter, I kept that to myself, until my senior DI wanted to know why I was drawing corporal's pay and he outed me in front of everyone. My DI's didn't faze me, I'd seen worse and they knew that, so they enlisted a DI from the adjacent platoon who looked and sounded like the original Frankenstein monster (minus the green skin). This man came over several times a week and just messed with me. I'd taken martial arts and there was a possibility I might have been able to take him, but I didn't want to risk that, or the repercussions.
Can confirm, for the most part. Marine from 01-05 but at that point the physical violence from Drill Instructors was no longer allowed. Still had the insults which really helped pass the time. Everything that happens at Boot Camp is 100% necessary.
The only thing in the boot camp part that was different from my recruit training is that none of us shot our Drill Instructor. Otherwise, it was like seeing flashbacks of MCRD San Diego.
@@SirWilliamsHand _"Everything that happens at Boot Camp is 100% necessary."_
You know who else said something along those same lines? Members of Charles Manson's cult who were pissed on, publicly raped and otherwise broken and humiliated, only to be "built back up" with the cult as the only support structure. It's "necessary" to ensure absolute loyalty and obedience... right?
Sorry, you are very likely unable to see it, but your mind has been messed with horribly, just as the minds of those cult members. Which may actually be the bigger tragedy... 😢
Your reaction is exactly why this is such a great film. It makes you feel icky because war is horrible and disgusting. That's the whole point.
super overrated movie
@@lessankey5287 I mean that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.. but I think this is a great film about a horrible war!! Yes it's hard to watch.... as it should be!!! but overrated it's not.
@@lessankey5287wrong
Definitely not...
@@lessankey5287
This movie tears at the soul and gives nothing in return. Not what I'd call a great film. I watched it many times(back when movie channels were limited) and hated it as a kid. Couldn't understand why everyone wanted to watch it all of the time after we graduated boot camp. The same "fans" never mentioned an interest in it again after 9/11.
That opening barracks scene is legendary, never gets old.
R. Lee Ermey was a really nice person. He used to shoot with us at our monthly (civilian operated) rifle matches at MCB Camp Pendleton in the 2000's and was approachable by all. RIP Ermey.
Ever watch Mail Call and Texas Chainsaw?
He definitely was not anything like his movie portrayals. Always enjoyed spending time with him.
His grandson was in my bootcamp platoon. He was at my graduation. Super cool dude
@@tbirdUCW6ReAJ A big reason why that Texas Chainsaw remake is my favorite version is because of R. Lee Ermey's performance. Edit: It would absolutely traumatize PIB badly.
They renamed Ave. N in Palmdale, CA to R Lee Ermey Ave.
A close friend of mine, who was a Marine in the Vietnam war, said this movie was the most realistic rendition of what he experienced going through bootcamp as well as his time spent in Vietnam.
well the guy was a real drill instructor
He sure was, and it shows.
Crazy my father said the opposite and he was in the battle.
I went to Parris Island in 91 and when I finally saw this movie, I SWORE that someone bought a camera to Bootcamp.....realism 100%🎯
“I could have a private who can do nine pull-ups and damn it, when I'm through talking to him, he can do 12. Why? Because I've intimidated this private so severely that I've convinced him that he can do 12 or he's going to die. That's why.” - R. Lee Ermey
28:33, my dad was a Ranger in Vietnam and it really messed him up. Some of the stories Dad told me of what he saw over there were seriously shocking. I used to think he was telling tall tails.
When my father passed away a few years ago, three men from his unit came to the funeral. I met them and they told me about who he was in the war. One of these men let me know that my dad wasn't exaggerating and my father had saved his life.
I had two uncles in Vietnam. Both of them were never quite the same after it. One uncle ended up eventually drinking himself to death. (And he was a mean damn drunk). We used to share stories after I got out of the Marines. I think I was one of the very few people he would talk about his time in nam with.(and he was one of the few people who understood why i would wake up in the middle of the night and couldn't go back to sleep till I checked the house and yard, and I mean I was still doing it damn near a decade after I got out of the military) The other uncle spent about the next 25 years high as a kite till the cops told him If he got busted again he was gonna spend serious time behind bars....so he switched to drinking. He makes some damn good wine but I honestly liked him better high than drunk.
More often than not, people say that they much prefer the first half of the film over the second. I myself love both halves about equally, but I get why people favor the first half, especially seeing as that contains the phenomenal performances of R. Lee Ermey and Vincent D’Onofrio as Gunnery Sergeant Hartman and Private Pyle respectively.
The movie was meant to smear the USA, a nation of liberators. Ermey was so good, as he did it for a living, it stole the show. And everyone that has gone to South Carolina or Georgia knows why recruits are treated that way. And it did not reflect poorly like Kubrick wanted. I'm stating my convinced opinion, as Kubrick nor any of them in Hollywood will admit it.
I'm similar I liked how different both parts were and I enjoyed it as a whole.
/\ what you said 👌
R. Lee Ermey actually was a drill instructor before his acting career
Yeah, I'm of the opinion that the first half is almost perfect. I think it could have been perfect if the whole movie was just boot camp.
I think everyone should watch this movie even though it's hard to watch. As someone that served 20 years in the military, I believe the media, politicians, hollywood, etc tend to romanticize war. Hope this makes people understand how horrific war is before deciding to send young men and women off to war. I also served as a drill sergeant for 3 years and can explain to you the "why" behind some of the things the DI was doing if you'd like.
Probably the most surreal movie watching experience of my life was in 2006 when I was sent to Iraq as a civilian contractor. There I was, embedded with the Marines at Al Asad Airbase in western Iraq, and they pull out this movie. They could recite every word from the film.
Hollywood has to cater to the D.O.D.'s requests before they get cooperation and equipment. So I think a lot of the "romance" is at the D.O.D.'s insistence to prevent people from *not* enlisting. I knew before SAVING PRIVATE RYAN from reading veteran memoirs that my clumsy ass had no place in the armed services and war should be avoided at most costs.
I highly recommend to watch 1985 'Come and see'. One of the scariest war movies ever.
I've never served, but I 100% agree with your sentiment.
Appreciate your service. I did twenty-eight years myself (plus time downrange as a contractor), and I appreciate that the film gives a glimpse at how basic training had been once upon a time.
When I returned from the First Gulf War in '91, I visited my high school history teacher, with whom I'd maintained a friendship since I graduated ten years prior. He invited me to speak to a couple of his classes about the war, which I did.
I'd gone into Kuwait during the ground war. I described in graphic detail what it was like walking through a field littered with destroyed Iraqi bodies - a torso here, a leg and head over there - as well as the smell of rotting corpses.
With the country having been shown CNN footage of the precision munitions hitting radar sites, bridges, and buildings, I wanted the high school kids to understand that for all the hi-tech marvels of stand off weapons, there is a gritty and horrific side to war that many people don't see/hear about.
Retired Marine and Drill Instructor here. Gunny Ermy was a well respected Marine. This is the most accurate depiction of Marine Boot camp that civilians are alowed to see. Especially when I went through and when I was a hat. We will never show you everything, nor can you ever experience it without actually being there. This is Hollywood, but a well made and authentic movie. Semper FI
It’s based on a very very good book, the Short timers.
Written by a Marine based on his experiences, intense book.
I'd say the movie stepped back from the intensity a bit as there were not 2 or 3 other DI's in their face at the same time.
@@chappy48i remember when people were getting chewed out they would have 3 DI’s in their face and only one of them would actually be speaking words and the others were just straight up screaming in their face for the sake of causing chaos🤣
I was army Airborne Ranger then tier 1 operator went in in 86" They could still hit you back then and they did. We had the confidence course at ranger RIP they used to throw the company mascot sherman shepards cleaned up dog shit into the low crawl water mud pit I always wondered what was hitting my face crawling through it..until one day I saw a guy picking up the dog shit and dumping it in the Gig pit. lol
Parris Island grad here. 100% agree. My only nitpick about its depiction are the knots in those damn ropes. Ain't no damn knots...those were there because the actors couldn't complete the obstacle without them.
“Why do you have to be so cruel? So horrible?”
They’re going to see their best friend’s guts. Mean words is the least of their worries.
This chick is clueless lol, she lives in a world of rainbows and unicorns
Mean words and abusive superiors won’t help them either.
@@Apfelkind4000 As a person who has gone through both Basic Training and been in combat, what are you basing your opinion on? I am asking because Basic Training is essential to be horrible and cruel. It is meant to prepare you for combat. Think about it this way. If you are weak and so soft you can't take a little pain and people yelling at you while calling you names, you are DEFINITELY too soft to be my battle buddy when my life is on the line in a hot AO. I would rather find out you can't hack it in Basic than in combat.
Edit: Instead of punching recruits, they now make them do pushups and flutter kicks which actually makes the recruits stronger while inflicting physical pain.
@@brianeleighton
My opinion is based on 12 years experience as an army officer.
@@Apfelkind4000 Ah yes, an officer. The perfect person to teach enlisted men. Sergeants run the military.
When a drill Sergeant spots a weak link in the recruits they double down extra hard.
Believe it or not it's actually compassion. If the weak link washes out of basic training because "they can't take it" then the drill sergeant has saved their life.
If the weak link makes it through basic training then they are no longer a weak link. And are ready to have the back of their brothers on the battlefield.
Hartman was a sadist and a racist and he drove Pyle to murder-suicide. Amazing all these commentors are taken in by Sgt. Hartmans obscene humor, he lacked the necessary insight to see that Pyle was out of shape and too immature for service. He should have been given a general discharge under honorable conditions.
The problem is I think Pyle was there as part of McNamara's Project 100,000 program so he couldn't wash out. Otherwise, Pyle would've been thrown out on his ass by the entire company. Hartman would've gone to his superiors and expressed how necessary it was to get him out of there.
The Tet offensive was kinda like Washington crossing the delaware at Christmas.
That's about how it was. I served 20 years in the Marine Corp and two combat tours in Vietnam. The first tour as a machine gunner (0331) in 1965-66 and the second as a Platoon commander (0369) in 1970-71. I retired after 20 years and had a 30 year career as a California police officer ( Marin County). What I learned in the Marine Corps has helped me all my life. I highly recommend it to anyone needing direction and wishing to learn self discipline .
Tom Boyte
GySgt. USMC, retired
Bronze Star, Purple Heart
Rahhhhh
Thanks for your service and your reply here. My dad served too (USMC ‘67-‘71). He didn’t do so well following his experiences. He wouldn’t, and perhaps couldn’t,watch this movie. Too hard.
Semper Fi Devil Dog.
Thank you sir for your service to our country and your incredible bravery and medals ( Wow) we salute you . 🙏❤️👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
🙏 TY for your service sir 🙏
It was wayyyy more complicated than just “north communists, south not, send help USA.” The country had been invaded and occupied and existed in a state of war for many decades before we ever got there. Ken Burns’ documentary about it is incredible if you’re curious.
Damn that’s right! Didn’t Vietnam ask Woodrow Wilson for help?
Actually, when people do their research, you can thank the french for getting us involved in Vietnam.
I'll second the recommendation of Ken Burns' Vietnam Documentary and, although it doesn't directly cover the Vietnam War, I also recommend Oliver Stones' "Untold History of the United States for some true US History.
Vietnam will always have my respect
They fought off China, France, and the United States.
No one is taking that country
The Vietnam Wars, 1945-1990 by Marilyn B. Young is an informative read. Really depressing though.
Vincent D'Onofrio does such a great job as Private Pyle. The way he goes from innocent, to emotionless, to talking to himself and finally to crazy scary is... Scary.
he actually gained 80lbs for the role as well, it still might be the record
My father was a Marine at boot camp in the 60's. He said this was absolutely the most realistic depiction he has ever seen.
1984 here...I'll agree!
I was in boot camp in 1967. This was almost exactly like what I experienced including the blanket party.. 2 guys just kept fucking us all over by not being able to hack it.
My dad told me the same thing when he went to Parris Island
I went to military school for high school and even there we mimicked many of the things from this movie, including the occasional blanket party.
I knew a Vietnam veteran, a former friend of my dad's. He saw action, was permanently disfigured from a grenade. I asked him once which movie was the most realistic version of his experiences and he named this film as well.
(1:29) Yes, this is required. It’s called the Induction Cut, or Induction Haircut. Originally one of the reasons for this haircut was to reduce the chances of diseases like head lice spreading among recruits in close quarters. The induction cut also serves a psychological purpose as it strips away the individuality of the recruits, promoting the mentality that they are all part of the same team. This haircut is usually performed within minutes or hours after arriving at boot camp, so it’s widely seen as a rite of passage for male recruits during basic military training.
(9:41) Do you remember Hacksaw Ridge? The Captain of that unit mentioned Section 8, “psychiatric discharge.” This was a practice of discharging personnel from the US Armed Forces who were deemed mentally unfit for service.
(11:00) Fire Watch simply put is Guard Duty. You work in shifts making sure that everything is secure, everyone is accounted for, and you often conduct chores and administrative tasks for the unit.
(13:24-13:51) You remember back at book camp, Joker was assigned to be a military journalist as his occupational speciality. Now he’s in Vietnam working as combat correspondent with the Marine Corps. They are just like regular journalists, except they are members of the US Armed Forces. The job of a correspondent is to provide a fresh, up-close, and personal account to what’s happening in the field. So here they are discussing their news coverage of the war in Vietnam. When the Lieutenant talks about a “Search & Destroy” Mission, those were common operations carried out by US and Allied troops to seek out and destroy communist forces in South Vietnam. The idea was to use overwhelming firepower to kill as many enemy as possible to the point where the Vietcong and NVA would be unable to continue fighting the war. Basically what the Lieutenant is talking about here, is the public relations effort to help win the war.
(15:06) It’s a slang term. The Americans called the Vietcong “Charlie.” The Vietcong or VC were a communist guerrilla movement in South Vietnam that was being supported by North Vietnam with the ultimate goal of uniting the entire country under communist rule. Fighting alongside the Vietcong in this war were the North Vietnamese Army or NVA (16:52). These were professional soldiers from the standing army of North Vietnam sent down to help the Vietcong drive out the Americans and overthrow the government of South Vietnam.
1968 represented the peak of the American war effort in Vietnam. For both sides the war had become a bloody stalemate, leading to the signing of the Paris Peace Accord on January 27, 1973. While this brought an end to American military involvement in Vietnam, it didn’t stop the fighting. In the spring of 1975, the NVA and VC launched a full scale offensive which conquered all of South Vietnam.
@Daniel Ramos You forgot another aspect of the cut. It saves the government money, since they literally charge recruits for the cut and deduct it from their pay. At least they did in the Army.
@@jippy8976 Yep When I went into the army in the 00s it was $7 for that haircut
Small correction: the VietCong never actually existed except in propaganda. It was completely integrated into the North Vietnamese military and controlled from Hanoi.
Simply put, the United States of America absolutely lost the Vietnam war.
Having served myself domestically and in combat zones within the last 15 years, the reason you treat new recruits like 'maggots', as he put it, is to breakdown any and all of the ego they came into the service with. People come from all walks of life, often with misguided notions about what it takes to be a U.S. serviceman. The idea is that by making everyone equally worthless and open to ridicule, you break down who they were before they came in and build them back up by teaching them that on a battlefield, each and every one of them is equal--metaphorically (rank still exists). The man to your left and to your right is your brother, regardless of any past prejudices or notions you might have had about them. You eat together, you train together, you sleep together and you suffer together until a bond forms that teaches you to willingly give your life for the man next to you if necessary.
Unfortunately, sitting people down in a room and trying to get them to harmonize under normal circumstances just doesn't work. You can look at the state of the world and how people treat each other to get a notion of how well that would go over. By inducing stress and shining a light on the reality of what they're entering into, you get people to look past the superficial and work together to come back home safe. It's a necessary evil. Any dead weight or anyone who doesn't comply to this new way of life is likely to be the guy that gets you or someone you know killed when it counts most.
Scoop out the brains and identity. Fill the vacuum with patriotism and propaganda.
A necessary evil indeed. Makes for good soldiers, which is the goal of this machine.
This
Yes is exactly like this and in only one word it is called CAMARADERIE
@@cristianbuttafuoco9876 The horrible misconception is that US soldiers fight for country. They don't. We fought for our brothers, even those we could not stand. "I'll screw with my little brother as hard as I want...You?...You keep your filthy hands to yourself or you deal with me..."
Another way to call this is conditioning - break someone down, and then form him or her into the machine you want to get out of this training. In the end it is not about ideals, but about a militray machine that relies on orders and discipline - the definition of unquestioned hierachy. The machine has to work, so cogs have to be produced that fit in that machine. This conditioning produces not "better" men, but just functioning ones for the purpose of the military. Everything else spun around this method is maybe good for morale, or self worth - but in the end fiction.
Most of the drill sergeants at the time had to look at casualty reports from Vietnam. They were used to seeing recruits that they trained on those killed in action lists.. They were hard on them in an effort to save their lives.
My dad was a Marine in Vietnam. He told me this was accurate, but the most accurate movie he had seen about the war was Hamburger Hill. RIP Dad. 1946-2021.
My respects to your dad. And Hamburger Hill was a brutal depiction.
My uncle was a Gunnery Sergeant in the Marines who served multi tours in Vietnam and also said the same about Hamburger Hill, and my uncle was also a DI and he spoke to us just like R.Lee, in fact my uncle would’ve busted me down just for calling the Gunny by his name “That’s Gunnery Sergeant Ermey, Numbnuts”
My dad was airborne in Vietnam. He too thought boot camp was accurate as well as the movie Hamburger Hill. He died before We Were Soldiers came out- Would’ve loved to know his opinion on that movie. He was very particular on movies about Vietnam. Especially with uniforms and if patches, ribbons, etc were authentic. Even the landscape had to be accurate.
The Hamburger Hill scenario was not typical for the average Vietnam experience of the regular US soldier.
It feels more like Korea War or even World War I, except they didn't have all that air support in those wars.
And that is why they didn't have as many friendly fire incidents.
To me, Platoon gives a better view of what the average combat soldier experienced day by day.
Not saying the big battle at the end was experienced by every US soldier but the part of trudging through the jungle, setting up ambushes, going into suspected villages, searching for weapons and VC, etc.
Semper Fi.
My dad was a dust off medic in Vietnam and he wouldnt watch this movie past the boot camp portion. He said that portion was hard enough for him to remember and that the second half of the movie brought back too many bad memories and he would prefer not to remember. He said this movie was too accurate
I’m also a veteran. I felt so bad watching your reaction to this film. You have a very kind heart but like they said “The Marine Corp. doesn’t want robots. The Marine Corps wants killers. The Marine Corp. wants indestructible men, men without fear.”
@@darthorion2002 da marin crops
'the marine corp wants killers' , person with legal record of killing applies and will get immediately turned down .
Doesn't make much sense when you realize robots are all of the above honestly
I get the notion, but I've always been a bit confused as to why someone would willfully subject themselves to that in order to become something so simple and single-mindedly devoted to their efficiency at committing acts of extreme violence. Maybe, MAYBE I could see it if you were fighting for a government whose motivations are clear and noble, but our own government's motivations are a very far cry from either of those two things. I know that a lot of people join up because of a vague notion of glory, duty or patriotism and I get that, but if such is the case it seems like you have a lot more work to do in figuring out who you are and where you should stand on the geopolitical issues of the world before you make such a commitment.
@@jackrussell1232 You are so right, this is a book written by a retired U.S. Marines general,: ua-cam.com/video/ej7FdCDmW6A/v-deo.html it speaks the cold facts and makes for very interesting reading. I mysel am an honorable A ndischarged U.S. Army veteran deported to Mexico since 1997, one last thing I would like to mention that the Government turns you into a klling machine to serve their purpos, but after the war the NEVER provide any assistance ro guidance as to adapt to returning to civilian life after the war!!! And I would like to commend you on speaking your piece of mind God knows that takes a lot of courage!!!
The first part, Basic Training is to show you HOW they train and condition recruits to handle such horrific stress. The system weeds out the weak. Combat is the ULTIMATE stress, IF you can't handle basic training stress, you'll NEVER handle real combat.
Kubrick was one of the few film makers to have the guts to make a film like this. Marines are wired very differently from from normal people. That rewiring is not an easy process, and it’s more difficult to rework.
Btw, the boot camp scenes are very close to the real thing. Today, DIs can’t legally strike a recruit. But accidents happen.
I couldn’t agree more with you. My dad (USMC ‘67-‘71) was wired very differently from anyone else I’ve ever really known.
I think its necessary to change normal boys to this kind of Men for to survive in a War. In that way the Gunnery saves the lifes of many young Soldiers.
@@drhkleinert8241 yeah but still, you turning men into mindless robots. At my time in the German army, we worked with stationed American soldiers, and they were behaving like little dogs. They did nothing without command. It was creepy to see
@@iamthewalrus4998 That may be. Your soldiers lost to our soldiers...TWICE...so there is that...
Rewiring, otherwise known as brainwashing. Yes, it is likely necessary but let’s call a thing what it is.
I had the pleasure of meeting R. Lee Ermey twice. The first time he sat with me and a few other Airmen in a bar in Omaha for about an hour telling us stories about shooting the movie. The second time was a year later in the Kansas City airport. Both times he was kind and generous with his time. He loved his fans and couldn't have been nicer.
RIP Gunny
Good to know.
Anyone I know who met him at gun shows, on the street, restaurants, etc- everyone of them say he was the sweetest person you’d ever meet and very humble/appreciative of his fame and fans. I won’t rehash how he got the part- But find it amazing how he could flip the switch and get in Marine mode. Many of those people begged him to “be a drill instructor for a moment”- and have him put them down with a line or two so they could say “Gunny ripped me a new one”. But all of them I know said he super kind at all other moments.
There's just something about watching one of the sweetest women in the world (you're in direct competition with your sister) watch Full Metal Jacket. It's almost heartbreaking.
It kind of reminds me of Leeloo in 'The Fifth Element' learning about war.
As much as you hated watching it we loved watching you hate watching it.
It's why I hope she never watches We Were Soldiers. It would destroy her
No it’s annoying as hell.
@@wayfarer4578 Why is it annoying?
Vincent D'Onofrio (Private Pyle) is such an underrated actor, in my opinion. He is a method actor, and his preparation and immersion qualify him to be mentioned in the same breath as Cruise, Pitt, and del Toro. I just love him, he is 100% convincing in every role I ever saw him act.
I'm meeting him in a few months at a con in Vancouver Canada and I'm so excited I've heard from people who've worked with him that he's super funny.
My recently deceased Great Uncle was a Marine. His drill instructor was literally R. Lee Ermey. Glad to say my Great Uncle Jim was an extremely sweet, good natured man.
R.I.P. sorry for your loss 😢❤️🙏. I Thank him for his service
Even R. Lee wasn't as bad as he portrayed himself in this movie. He was an actual Drill Instructor that they brought in to be a consultant and eventually they decided he was a better fit for the role than the guy they had gotten to do the character originally. I think even back then if a Drill Instructor got signs that someone was going to become a Section 8 they would have booted them once they broke down enough.
"...literally R. Lee Ermey"? Like LITERALLY literally?
@@jscan4442 It's possible, Ermey was an actual drill instructor once.
Oh yes, Gunny was a D.I. for a time.
A few Marines who went thru Parris Island while he was there were asked if R. Lee Ermey was actually like that in real life.
To a man, they said: "Nope.... he was WORSE."
I knew this movie would be difficult for you to watch because you're a kind and sensitive soul, but I appreciate you going through it. Sometimes we need to go outside of our comfort zones. Your reactions are always genuine and I appreciate that.
.
" " Sometimes we need to go
outside our comfort zones . " "
.
-- Indeed . Amen .
.
I agree. Also, I don't think Kubrick is an exploitative film-maker. But I like how delicate and decent Cassie is and I don't want her to ever lose that.
@@chubbrubb72 do you think kubrick or tarantino films are darker
@@harveybeck8452 I'd never considered that question. Now that I have I can't decide.
@@chubbrubb72 sorry I know is six months ago like a few days ago we think like kubrick just like dark sex and horror then tarantino
One tiny detail really drives home the duality of man that Joker represented. Look back at the scene when Joker shoots the sniper. As he points his pistol he turns very slowly and, as he turns, the peace symbol is eclipsed by the collar of his uniform. As the peace symbol disappears, the duality also disappears, leaving only "Born to Kill" on his helmet. It is at the very instant the peace symbol is completely hidden that Joker fires, killing the sniper. After the killing, the peace symbol returns along with a good man that is now deeply damaged by the war... Kubrick was the man.
My dad was a instructor in the Marine Corps. He was just as brutal to the recruits that's in the movie. their jobs to break them down, build them up and hope they come back home alive. If you thought he was tough on those guys, you should've been a only son, he expect the same for me. My dad was in the Korean war and He went straight to Vietnam. He always said he would served four Tours in Vietnam from one in Korean War.
Matthew Modine (Joker) is also in a WWII movie, The Memphis Belle. I'm not on your Patreon, but I am confident you'll be glad you watched it. It is very inspirational, and it is a true story. My grandfather was a mechanic at the airfield where the story takes place and he remembered the plane.
Oh yeah thats a good movie!
Great film, one of my favourites, as it uses actual planes and practical effects instead of cgi, and it also includes a young Sean astin (Sam from LOTR) too alongside other great actors !
And ironically, the airfield the Memphis belle bomber flew out of in England was bassingbourn which turned into a British military camp after the war, and was also the camp they filmed the basic training at in full metal jacket.
It's been a while since I've watched Memphis Belle. Good movie! 👍
I love that movie!
The guy playing the drill sergeant is R Lee Ermey, he was an actual Marine drill sergeant during the Vietnam War. He was just supposed to be a military advisor on set but he was so good they decided to cast him in the role of drill sergeant. I think he made up a lot of his lines on the spot.
was not playing a drill sergeant. nor was he a real drill sergeant...what an insult!! he was a Drill Instructor! Get it right maggot!
My uncle served in the army at Vietnam. He couldn’t watch this movie all the way through. One thing that is very true is that stare. I asked him once about the war when I was little. He talked for a little bit and then just started staring into space. Freaked me out. Can’t imagine what he really went through. I never asked him again. RIP uncle Joe
Fascinating story.
Maybe some things are better left unknown
My dad was in the Marines during Vietnam and when he seen this movie I asked him why they treated the new recruits like that. His reply was they not want to only make them physically tough but mentally.
Your reaction is exactly what Kubrick was going for. He wanted to make a movie that demonstrated the dehumanization of war, and show all of the contradictions encountered by those who fight in it.
You couldn't explain the Vietnam War if your life depended on it.
@@davisworth5114 are you volunteering to explain the Vietnam war? If you can, the floor is yours
Well said. The fact that Cassie felt uncomfortable with most of this movie is exactly why it's so good. There is nothing good about war. It's a dirty, terrifying business.
For me the first part is what works best, in the part, after the chilling bathroom scene, I already lose interest in the movie a bit, this is ok it is the second part in the war, but there are much better second movies to show The war part is better.
@@davisworth5114 Go on then. Back up your unnecessary negative comment and blow our minds with education and humility....I'll wait.
Sergeant Hartman's job is to make sure that when his recruits get to Vietnam they remember their training and employ that training without a second thought. His methods are brutal, but the lessons he teaches can determine whether or not any of the recruits come back home alive.
Sure enough.
I spent 12 years in the Army and i was also in the Gulf War. Yes you are right. A drill instructor´s job is to get the Men trained and back home alive.
The German army, during World War I, followed the Prussian military doctrine.
They believed that soldiers should be more afraid of their own officers than of the enemy.
This caused a lot of 'fragging' incidents on the German side, long before fragging was made fashionable by the US armed forces in Vietnam.
Average drill sergeant.
Considering they had cut training time down to 90 days, there was no time to be nice. These guys would be in combat. Without their training they would come home in a coffin.
Former Marine here. I can confirm that this is the most realistic reenactment of Marine Corps boot camp I've ever seen.
I agree. for the time period. True for the 90s as well, except for maybe the corporal punishment. D.I.s aren't allowed to strike recruits. That being said, I'd rather have taken a beating now and then than to have spent 30 minutes on the quarter deck with a D.I. in my face. my heart about to burst, screaming about how I'm not running in place fast enough.
@@captzero007 quarter deck sucked, but the sand pit was hell. I remember having sand in my ears for days before feeling clean again only to do it again.
what year though?
When I watched this movie for the first time I laughed uncontrollably at the boot camp scenes. I had just finished basic and I was on boot leave.
@Penderyn
Granted, there are many aspects of the armed forces that are cult-like. But the biggest hallmarks of what makes a cult aren't present.
Namely...
1. You're not ostracised from your family
2. You're not forced to stay once your contract is fulfilled.
I'm two years late in finding this video
I was on active duty for 13 years, and only went on three combat deployments. Watching FMJ again, after my time, I get the sense that Kubrick was trying to show the raw humanity, and human cost, of war with Vietnam as a set piece. Life in a combat zone has a lot of whiplash moments.
The strange placement of popular music is just like war. When you're not out in the suck, music is a popular refuge. I don't know about anyone else, but all of my deployments were long stretches of boredom punctuated by some very acute events.
War is ugly, and there are a wide range of reactions to contact. This movie does a damn-fine job of giving a view from the ground. I think you're *supposed* to be unsettled by this movie.
Bottom line is war is a job, an ugly job. There are days, as a civilian again, that I miss the camaraderie, crude humor, and simplicity of being deployed with my Brothers and Sisters.
My Grandfather was in Vietnam. He never talked about it and I knew better than to ask. He's 87 now, and I can't even begin to imagine what he seen and went through.
My Uncle(Army infantry)was in Vietnam, and my father(Navy SeaBees) was among the first boots on the ground after Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Neither one would talked about what they saw, and we all knew better than to ask as well. And I still shutter to think about what they went through to get back to us!
Not just what they went through, but also the things they did.
There is a UA-cam channel: "Memoirs of WWII" that has short interviews of WWII veterans.
Your Grandfather's story is important too and shouldn't be lost.
Definitely good of you not to ask. I’m sure that was a 100% negative experience.
@@rana1561very true, they may "spread democracy" but the children were still killed, and more recently an Iraqi family killed 19 year ago by Marines surfaced.
My dad is a Marine Vietnam vet. We've watched this movie together. He told me that this was exact experience. This is a rough movie to watch but also an important movie to watch. Thanks for this.
My buddy was a sniper in Iraq, then assigned to
Guantanamo Bay and said the same thing.
@JoKeS Why are you saying that? You know that isn't what he meant.
Because the guy was lying or exaggerating
The first time my father and I discussed this movie he pulled out his photo album. The city in this movie (destroyed) was a near match for the photos in his album. Great movie, but the sets are what makes it for me.
@@docsavage8640 What was your experience in the USMC?
Gotta say, I never expected this movie to show up here. Every reaction was pretty much what I thought it would be though, and they're genuine too. Never change hon, never change.
I think they're trying to break her. At least start out with some of the softer stuff before going FMJ.
@@Jsingle911 she's seen Schindler's list so where's the in-between she should start out with lol
Yeah the reaction felt pretty close to what I expected.This movie though is quite out of a lot of peoples comfort zone if they aren’t used to war movies. This shows the more honest cruel truth of what training used to be like in the US Army. At least that’s what I’ve learned as someone from the UK.
Nah, she does need to change. She's so soft a table corner could pop her.
@@kevinbaconwasntinfootloose1742 Well you've got me there lol
1st 50 min of that movie is just epic and the best part most of this was not scripted, R Lee did an amazing job with this one . R.I.P R Lee
Welcome to the next edition of "Let's traumatise Cassie!"
But seriously, I really appreciate your willingness to open yourself up to movies that can be difficult to watch.
She still havn't seen Se7en... ^^
@@zephyr30 🤣
As long as they are movies that should be watched, I think it's OK to slowly build her up.
@@zephyr30 And anyone that votes to make her watch it is sadistic. And probably a truly terrible person at heart.
@@LaserWombat i don't vote for anything.
It's one of the best movies ever, from one if not the best director of his generation.
The drill sergeant is R. Lee Ermey, who was a real life sergeant who served in the Vietnam war. He improvised over half of all his lines, so the shock on the recruits faces were real reactions lol. He may seem like a heartless person in the movie, but he was a kind man in real life. So sad that he passed away a few year ago :(
He even made Kubrick stand to attention.
If I remember correctly he wasn’t the first choice for drill. The first guys lines were all scripted but it just didn’t flow right so that’s when he came in.
@@ryanhampson673 I believe the Helo Door Gunner was up for it as well
@@swdist68 yea that's the guy
Instructor.
I served in the Marines early 2000s. Boot camp was no joke. Even today, Marine boot camp has kept its standard as being the toughest basic training in our military. The actor who played the drill instructor. R. Lee Ermy, was a real Drill Instructor, hence the amazing performance he died in 2018. Most respected Marine of our time
is that true though, the hardest
I think Chesty Puller's fame exceeds "gunny". Then again - Puller was the kind of man, that when shown a flamethrower for the first time, he asked "where do you mount the bayonet".
I dunno--I think that whole "it's the hardest" is mostly hype nowadays. Sure you guys do water training, but other than that, your boot really isn't that much different from ours (Army).
@@energeez It was once, but now it's just hype.
@@coqueslammwell6198 I'd say it's moderately harder...you guys don't get slayed or hazed quite like we did. But bootcamp is easy anyways. Recon school was several times harder (more comparable to RASP)
Ermey was originally hired as a consultant, but they loved him so much they gave him the part.
Regarding why the initial training scenes were so brutal, as you said: they’re being prepared to go into the worst situations they will hopefully ever experience. Subjecting them to stress of any kind will help to prepare them- if they can find ways to push past it in training they will be better prepared to push past it in combat. Ok the flip side, if they cannot push past it, it would be better if they break in training then if they break in combat. Well… most of the time, anyways.
The US Army recently banned "Shark Attacks" because Recruits couldn't handle people yelling at them.
Lol.
If you think this training is bad look into special forces Seals SAS in the UK and others its even more brutal
@@wolf99000 oh I’m aware. Just giving an explanation.
That’s right, and also, during this time period of the Vietnam war, the drill instructors were given a VERY shot window to train the men that were drafted..they had to squeeze 12 weeks of training into 8 weeks…(I’m just a civilian 🤷🏾♂️.. correct me if I’m wrong) 8 weeks isn’t enough time to get a soldier ready for war
That's totally what they thought. But it turns out that it's a shitty way to prepare people and you end up with worse soldiers than if you'd skipped all the sadism and screaming.
Originally, the actor who played the gunman in the helicopter was to play Hartman. R. Lee Ermey was a technical advisor. Kubrick was so impressed with how Ermey was with the other actors in rehearsal that he asked Ermey to play the part.
This actor apear in Apocalypse Now in one of the helicopters
Not surprising since R. Lee Ermey was actually a USMC drill instructor.
Ermey was in a bad car accident during filming and stayed at Kubrick's house while he was recuperating where Ermey worked on his Dialogue for the movie
They guy they originally cast as the gunnery sergeant got the consolation prize role as the helicopter gunman shooting the farmers in the field.
Actually Ermey was there on the set to help out with the army stuff to make sure the actors where on the right path, and suddenly he thought i want the drill instructor part and went to the producer and said to him that he wanted that part. i saw that in a intervieuw somewhere.
I was a drill sergeant from 2013-2019 in the Army Reserves. I have 13 complete BCT cycles, including 2 complete years on the trail from 2016-2019. The majority of my time as a Drill Sergeant was spent at Fort Leonard Wood.
A lot has changed since the 1960’s, but this movie is not far off.
I could have a VERY long discussion about the why and how of Basic Combat Training. And you would be surprised at how effective our tactics are in training recruits.
Fun Fact, Lee was a family friend for years. My family worked on his show Mail Call through its entire run, and later on Gunny Approves.
I did BCT at Leonard Wood in 2010.
I was a Drill Sergeant at Fort Leonard Wood from 1989-1992 with B & C Companies 87th Engineer Battalion. I remember getting troops ready for Gulf War 1 in 1991. When a cycle graduated separated the Active Duty personnel and marched them to their waiting buses with them all knowing where they were heading to. Guard and Reserve separated into another section and getting on buses to go home and telling them that they will be in the Gulf soon enough. Repeat for next cycle.
I went through Basic in 1981 and Drills were doing their best to keep from smacking trainees up side the head but - yep - it DID happen. Fortunately I did not get smacked.
@@jamesbednar8625 no offense, but who cares if you get smacked
Booooooooot
Thank you for your service.
100% accurate. Whenever I'm feeling down I watch FMJ or real bootcamp video clips. It always makes me smile. God bless my beloved Corps. Semper Fi.
Two points about the training sequence. The Drill Instructors had an incredible responsibility preparing young men for combat. Anyone not properly trained would not only run a higher risk of getting themselves killed, but their mistakes would get other killed around them. This was made abundantly clear during the Vietnam War when Defense Secretary Robert McNamara lowered military recruiting standards as part of a program called Project 100,000. Its goal was to recruit 100,000 men each year who were otherwise mentally, physically or psychologically under-qualified for service. From the Project’s launch in 1966, through its termination in 1971, it allowed 354,000 previously ineligible men into the military. These young men who should have never been pressed into service suffered disproportionately heavy combat losses combat In Vietnam.
Well, we know McNamara was a war criminal and he as much admits it in his book. Some one tried to throw him off the Marthas. Vineyard ferry in the early 70s but he fought the guy off, I met McNamara on his book tour in '95, he gave off a palpable strong but evil vibe, I was shocked. His kids really suffered because they were in college at the time.
I read about McNamara seeing things about the after effects. The 'morons' as they were called said the training helped but the statistics say otherwise when compared to likewise low IQ civilians. Then the questions becomes how do normal IQ civilians compare to war vets who end up dead, make it home with PTSD and drug use and homelessness? Would those civilians likewise be better off it not more so than an average war vet from Nam, especially with those ratios of McNamara types in comparison? Because the way the statistics are always twisted when asking a base question you have to be sure what is compared and who asked it. Compare ratio to ratio to see what the outcome really is.
Still 'wrong' since nobody had a choice in the matter, to be pressed into service. Draft is still there for emergency use but we see how 'emergency' always gets abused. But science is science and has nothing to do with morality.
"McNamara's Morons", they were called. Forrest and Bubba in Forrest Gump are implied to be examples.
faaaccckkkk... just running the number.
Movies by Kubrick are always profound. They leave you asking questions. He was a master filmmaker.
Nothing profound about Eyes Wide Shut. The only question it left me with was "How could Kubrick make a film this awful?"
@@DavidBrown-ke8cb Yeah, well, you know, that's just like your opinion man.
@@DavidBrown-ke8cb Lol true, Eyes Wide Shut is terrible. That name is reference to how the script was written
I mean,
2001 has never been finished by anyone who ever watched it.
Eyes Wide Shut was AWFUL.
And The Shining was NOTHING like the book.
Yeah only the millions of people who consider 2001 the greatest film ever made.
The actor playing the drill Instructor was actually a drill instructor during Vietnam all of his dialogue was add libbed every bit of it was stuff he said to recruits when he was a DI
The guy who was the gunner in the helicopter was originally cast to be the drill instructor with R. Lee Ermey only working as a technical advisor, but he couldn't pull off the speed of duologue, so Ermey took over the role and turned in a truly masterful performance.
R.I.P R. Lee Ermey
Kubrick had never heard the term 'reach around' which Ermey used in one of his many diatribes to the men. A crew member had to explain its meaning to the celebrated director.
And he's also briefly in Apocalypse Now as a pilot 😀
He also played the Sergeant in The Boys in Company C.
Yes, some were draftees. Boot camp was 89 days and if you could not pass the midpoint physical, you were given the option of a medical discharge or go back to day one and start over. The three I knew, started over. The object of boot camp was to tear you down mentally and physically, then they rebuilt you to the image of the Corps. I seemed cruel, but it was effective.
The smile when Cassie realized that Animal Mother was Jayne was great.
"I was gonna get me an ear, too."
Where in the clip is that?
I went thru Parris Island in the 80's (Plt 3037 Lima Co 3rd BN) and this movie comes closer to showing what it was actually like than anything I've ever seen. Semper Fidelis on Memorial day to all my Marine Corps brothers!!!!!
1987 PI 1046 Semper Fi Brother.
1984 was my year & this movie nailed it.
Plt 2087 D Co 2nd Bn Parris Island 1986 Semper Fi!!!
Platoon 1058, Delta Company 1st Batallion 2000. Semper fi devil dog.
Always faithful brother.
As a Marine Veteran with service in Iraq, I usually tear up along with you and some of these movies you react to like The Patriot and LOTR. This was one of the few times I was laughing uncontrollably at your reactions (bootcamp, not Vietnam).
It did give me a different perspective and set me back a little though. Like maybe I shouldn't be laughing at these bootcamp scenes. I also got the chance to meet and talk with R. Lee Ermey in Okinawa. He's a good actor, not a real jerk.
"It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it" ~General Robert E. Lee
My Grandpa got drafted and was sent over seas a week after my mom was born. My grandma said it changed him. And would have flash backs.
I appreciate how much you honor your audience by sitting through this movie. Your reaction said it all. And you forced your way through it. I give you serious props. I love this movie. I always picture grandpa somewhere in these Vietnam movies.
At the end of the movie, when they are singing the Mickey Mouse song, it shows you how young these marines were and what they all had in common and hanging on to as kids...thats a great move by the director...It was meant to say that the soldiers in Vietnam were mostly just kids who werent supposed to be there to begin with
And it suggests that Disney Corp. is integrated into the death machine that keeps certain groups in power. As hard as that is to believe.
@@garki1369 ooh boy
It's not like he wants to say "these poor kids!". Kubrick has always been consistent and crystal clear of what he had to say about men's evil desires, from Paths to Glory, to Clockwork Orange, The Shining, and then to Full Metal Jacket. It's to show how naive being an immature manchild(ren) and wanting to subjugate others leads to devastation of themselves and people around them. Good example: They get wrecked by a child and a literal bunnie toy.
It's a very cynical scene.
Onward Children Soldiers,
@@agarlicsorbet6482 cringe
As a former active duty Marine myself, I can tell you the first half of the film centered around Basic Training was likely a tame version of what happened in the 1960's at Parris Island. One thing all new recruits go through is shaving the head. It serves several purposes, from being easier to clean for hygiene purposes, to uniformity. There is a saying in the Corps that there are no individuals, everyone is "green", just varying shades of it. Having gone through boot camp in the 1980's for 12 weeks, it was a non-stop mind game of yelling in your face, physical punishment in the form of PIT time (Platoon/Personal Incentive Training), and given impossible tasks that could not be completed resulting in more verbal abuse and punishment. But there is a reason for this: battlefields or chaotic by nature, and if you can't take someone screaming at you, you're going to panic under fire which is bad, and is going to get others killed. The 2nd half of the film centered on the Battle for Hue City. Kubrick took a lot of creative liberty and tossed in lots of stereotypes of Marines. But Hue was unique for the Marines because they hadn't been trained in urban city fighting, so casualties were high. It's a misconception that the US did poorly, or "lost" in Vietnam. They won every battle they fought against the NVA or the VC. But politicians controlled every aspect of the war, limiting which targets could be hit, tying units down into static positions only to win the objective and leave for it to be re-occupied by the NVA/VC, so it had to be re-taken again. When the US casualty count began to rise, politicians feared for losing support from their constituents, and the decision was made to pull the US out of Vietnam leaving the ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam) to stand against the North. They were overrun and surrendered. Oh, and in to clear up some confusion about who or what "Charlie" is, its a military adaptation of the phonetic alphabet. Viet Cong forces were called VC, or Victor Charles, shortened to just "Charlie".
I believe you are right about USMC basic at Paris. My dad went there for basic in ‘67, boy did we hear hard stories from him about that and more....
I just woke up and learned something new. Didn't know why the US army called the Viet Cong Charlie
Semper Fi I was at San Diego 1991 1st RTB Plt.1110 Bravo Co.
And as the Charlie thing my dad did 2 tours in Vietnam with the 1st inf division and the 9th inf. And he didn't call them Charlie he called them gooks.
First up the US lost In Vietnam. We have the film of helicopters lifting US personnel off the roof of the US embassy in Ho Chi Min City to prove it. The pictures of US helicopters being pushed off carrier flight decks to make room for more evacuees also show just how humiliating the defeat was. The defeat occurred on the battlefield not in the US. The US army in Vietnam got its arse kicked repeatedly. By 1967 it was obvious that the war was lost and could not be won. The claim that the US army never lost an engagement is just bullshit. It lost repeatedly from Khe San down to he Mekong delta.
For most of the war the US was occupying beleaguered garrisons that could just about hold the ground they stood on and their current field of fire but held nothing else. When and where US forces could identify PAVN or irregular units and use either artillery or air power to attack them they could inflict terrible casualties. However when the Vietnamese got them by the “belt buckle” and prevented the use of artillery and air power US forces got roughly handled. Often losing. The typical engagement was a close in ambush of a US patrol. When cowboy says they are being set up for an ambush it is because he has been ambushed repeatedly in similar circumstances. Contact would be initiated by the Vietnamese typically at very close range, typically 5 to 10m away inflicting immediate and substantial losses. The fire fight would continue while the Vietnamese thought they were inflicting damage and end with the Vietnamese withdrawing in good order and the patrol badly mauled. The US forces would claim victory in such engagements by claiming to have killed more enemy than they lost. However many of these Vietnamese losses were imaginary, like the deaths Joker is ordered to fabricate. Many Vietnamese losses where people were actually killed were in fact south Vietnamese civilians and many of their friends and relatives would either join or support irregular units afterwards. When the door gunner says “if they run they are VC” he is quoting actual rules of engagement issued to US forces in areas thought to have irregular forces present.
The purpose of the abuse isn’t to stress proof the training. That can be done without inflicting psychological trauma. The psychological trauma has a different purpose it is to dehumanise the recruits, to remove their innate sense of self and sense of morality. So that when they shoot at women and children they don’t lead them so much. Or don’t bat an eyelid when ordered to lie in the gutter taking photos up Ayn Rand’s skirt as Raptorman is.
R. Lee Ermey, who plays GSgt. Hartman, was a real life drill instructor. He improvised his entire performance with the exception of a few scripted lines. He should have won the Oscar for best supporting actor.
As many Marines will tell you. It's pretty accurate, at least for its time. Nowadays the drill instructors can't really touch you, but there's just as much yelling, name calling, and of course being worked into the ground everyday for 3 months.
I did the 13 week "Summer of Love" in 1991. They were phasing out "hands-on correction" but there were a few Drill Instructors that hadn't read the R&I board for that just yet. Good times.
MCRD SD 1984 - DI's could not touch you then (at least not with malice) , but it certainly happened when no officers were looking. Every character in this movie had a counterpart in real life for me with Pyle being a composite of everyone's foul-ups in one character. One recruit messed up his request to use the head by saying "Sir, private requests head sir" rather than saying head call. The boot camp segment is very accurate and fact one could say partly toned down. I saw guys piss themselves in fear, on more than one occasion. The DI's were brutal, but they have to distress the recruits so they learn to function under duress. Push them past their own perception of physical limits but also to not exceed them and instill self confidence.
They weren't supposed to "touch you" then either, but they did it anyway.
@@michaelwoods9005 I never got head-butt, but I had the brim of the Smokey hit me on the bridge of my nose several times. Felt like it was reinforced with metal. Very effective "no touching" technique.
In 2001 I never got hit by my DIs. But I did "run into their fist" aggressively sometimes.
I was an Infantry Drill Sergeant for 3 years in the Army. There are instructional and psychological reasons for the cruelty. Helps to quickly break down who they were and try to replace it with a different value system where they might have to follow an order that could lead to their death without hesitation.
And he says it like it's a good thing...
@@Warentester it is. Hesitation in combat leads to not only you being possibly killed or injured but those around you as well. The difference between now and then is the draft. Our Army, including combat arms, is entirely volunteer, so no one has been forced into a combat heavy field in over four decades. If you feel the training is cruel or unnecessary simply don't walk into your local recruiting station, problem solved.
@@Warentester Thats what soldiers are made to unfortunately, they go to kill and die, world saw what happened in WWI and they realized that you need senseless killing machines to fight a proper war, most people would never go to war if they weren't brainwasher by some shit power hungry government
@@Warentester, good, bad, or indifferent, it had to be done in order to get people in a state of mind that would raise their chances of survival in high pressure situations.
@ Jeremy Bland What do you think of the quality of your recruits?
I like that you don't try to make any analysis or something like that, you just experience the movie and voice your thoughts to us. Very, very refreshing content you are making.
My dad was Navy, on a Destroyer in Nam, he said for people that could not cut it, they got the bar... The instructors were tough on these guys, because the environment they were going into was worse. I will forever love all those folks, all Branches of the US Military for doing what a lot of people don't have the brass to do... 🇺🇸
The training has to be brutal so that they can learn to function in extremely brutal and stressful situations. He is so mean to Pyle because he knows that in battle, he could be a liability to the rest of his platoon. Also, his treatment teaches the other privates to work together. If Pyle can't pull his own weight, people can die. If the team can't help him pull his own weight, people die. But if they can all learn to work together, they can learn to survive.
thats just terrorism my guy, its a anti war hero that shows how criminal the US is
Exactly! Look at what our military pumps out now. It's pretty embarrassing compared to just 10 years ago. I have respect for our soldiers. They go through hell to fight for our freedoms. But the soldiers these days aren't even familiarized with our constitution or rights! They're becoming as bad as... Well I won't go there. I respect our military err I mean our soldiers. Not all but most of our soldier of today... Lol nevermind.
@@L4ftyOne Lol what are you even talking about? What part of what I said is “terrorism”?
It has to be brutal because that's what's required for the brainwashing to set in. There's little difference between boot camp and a cult, except boot camp works faster.
@@Kaylakaze There's no comparison.
The thing about the movie is that everything in that war was pointless. There was no stragety for winning, and it left the troops not feeling that they were there to do nothing more than to kill. It wasn't a war the politicians & high command were trying to really win, they were there just to stay and fight and keep the fighting going. If they were trying to win, they'd have pushed into North Vietnam, but they didn't. So there was no chance to defeat the enemy, but just to keep fighting them. We like to think that in wars we were fighting for our freedom. For the most part that's been true, but it wasn't in Vietnam. Vietnam was a war for the sake of having a war. People will argue the point of that war for years, and nobody will come up with a good answer.
The strategy for "winning" was to kill the enemy at a rate of 12 to 1, and teenagers were used to do that killing. Vietnam veterans were then scapegoated and America washed its hands of all responsibility. The point was to stop communism from succeeding in Vietnam, the Vietnamese fought to get foreigners out of their country. We killed them at a 12 to 1 ratio but they didn't quit. This war was planned by WW2 veterans, the so-called "greatest generation".
This is the probably the shortest but the best explanation of the war.
Read more about the 2nd Indochina War. Besides the lies media told you'll find out your answer is mostly Balderdash.
@@georgesykes394 I say you’re full of crap.
Any drugs involved to support Vietnam war for guns from either side?… like South America and Central America. CIA was letting cocaine move in USA sold it to gangs in LA-made crackCocain, money converted into guns for rebels to fight “communism” civilians caught in between fled towards USA and once those that had supported from USA abandon them(like Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan) escaped towards gang infested LA..fueled street war Bill Clinton deported gang immigrants back.. fueled violence in a weak government than more migrants come to USA to flee a torn country seeking asylum….
If there was one movie I could ever see on this channel for the sincere, gut wrenching reaction so sympathetic to the experiences conveyed, it is this one. Rest In Peace Dad (1949-2020, USMC ‘67-‘71).
Vietnam is a graveyard of Empires like Afghanistan.
In Vietnam there were the Japanese, the Chinese, the French and the US. No one could win there.
Why? Because the Vietnamese never used real Army. In a real Army vs Army like Korea or WW1 and 2 Vietnam had no chance.
And in fact: Think about the Vietnam War if the VC dont get the help from China and NorthVietnam.
@@drhkleinert8241 Interesting, and true. I think even Alexander the Great got bogged down in conflict in the mountains of Afghanistan. I’d have to double check the history through.
NO this was NOT an exageration, in fact, the boot camp scenes may have been portrayed significantly gentler than they actually were back in those days, the point is to teach out a lot of things that you have already learned that can be detrimental to the mission, and teach other things to be second nature that can help you survive combat, but mainly boot camp teaches you to not be stingy and self centered and to think of your brothers and your unit before yourself.
When I was in basic training, my TI's said all the things R Lee Ermey said. My reaction up to the last scene in the latrine was humor, I laughed throughout remembering my days. Funniest thing I heard while our heads were being buzzed, one of the barbers asked the guy next to me if he wanted to keep his sideburns. Of course he said yes, the barber then handed him a mess of his hair and laughed. And as a sidenote, R Lees opening dialog is the longest ad lib scene in movie history. As a longtime resident here in the Antelope Valley, R Lee was a great human devoted to the veteran community. He is missed.
Cassie seems like such a gentle soul. I'm uneasy thinking of how this reaction will go.
A scarred mind?
maybe it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.
@brucefale6132 it will go is just takes time not an easy one to watch
My dad fought for the US army in Vietnam. I'm not going to relay to you the stories he's told about his time there. I personally chose to go into the Navy. I've seen lots of depictions of boot camp, but this was by far the most accurate. We had at least two people like Pyle in our division. We all tried to help them along, but would often be punished for their shortcomings. I went onto submarines. That was some of the worst times of my life. Yes, there were people who killed themselves because the pressure is immense. You're in a metal tube in the ocean. The lives of over a hundred other people rely on how well you do your job. Learning how to fight fire and flooding was essential. Learning how to apprehend intruders was important. Weapons combat was learned for when we're pierside during refit, in case terrorists attempt to board the vessel to steal intel. I had a Secret clearance, which was necessary because I was surrounded by information that could jeopardize the security of our country if it fell into the wrong hands. Part of getting my Secret clearance involved revoking my dual citizenship with South Korea. Yes, this film is difficult to watch, but not because it's surprising. Because it's real. I've known people like every single one of those characters. Like them or not, I had their backs, and they had mine. We were all we had.
I got my draft notice in 1971. I figured four years in the Navy doing a tech job was better than two years playing grunt. I had a lot of choices. I'd scored 100 on the Armed Forces Qualification Test at the recruiters. Then scored high on everything else later. A SEAL came to see me and I said no. Then they wanted me as a Communications Technician (it had four components then) I said no. Operations Specialist. No. I had no objections to the choices except that they all required a six year commitment. My intent all along was to do four and go bac to my job at the telephone company. It didn't have to let me back after four years.
So I was made a Construction Electrician in the Seabees. It worked out alright. I was still mostly in my field working in the telephone exchanges. After that I went to a public works. I learned building maintenance, scheduling, manpower management and various trades. When Ma Bell laid me off in1985 I was ready to start a business. The four years wasn't a waste of time.
If I hadn't had the job to go back to I could have stayed. I made E-5 in four years. I was offered a $30K reenlistment bonus and 105 week school with the Army Signal Corps. But I turned it down for the phone company job. I have some regrets. The job had turned shitty and after AT&T was broken up I was laid off. But I kept on keeping on. You do what it takes to move on.
My dad served two tours in Vietnam and he didn't want me following his footsteps and enlisting in the army so instead I enlisted in the marine corps lol
I'm a Marine from 1984-1988, close enough to the war that most of my Staff NCO's and Field Grade Officers had one or more tours in Vietnam. Most of them were still sore about how it all went down. I can tell you that the boot camp footage was almost 100% accurate. Very, very accurate indeed. I believe the combat and in-country footage was made to be as "real" as possible so that people could appreciate the price that our veterans pay for all of our freedom. I believe you are a good hearted, intelligent young woman and I could see how confusing and hurtful all of this was for you to watch. It is important and meaningful that you made that effort to see, feel, and understand this. The simple truth for everyone who has served, in any branch at any time in war or in peace is that none of us are unscathed by our service. All have given some...and some have given all.
Having been through Marine Basic Training in 1969 at MCRD Parris Island, SC I can tell you with authority that, in 1969 this was the program that I went through. This is by far the most accurate depiction of Marine Basic Training I have ever seen! The ONLY exception is that it is virtually impossible to sneak live ammo from the rifle range! When shooting, we are issued X number of rounds for that firing line and must return the same number of empty cartridges to the NCO in charge. Failure to do that and the entire range is locked down until the missing brass is recovered.
The reason for the harsh treatment is simple and effective. At that time the Marine Corp felt that if they could break down an individual in a safe environment then that individual would most likely crack under the stress of combat, getting himself killed and probably some of his buddies as well. Yes, there were a lot of head games, a lot of physical abuse as well. Every single recruit in my platoon got hit at least once, some more than others. It taught us self discipline and pride that we could take what ever the DI through at us!
When we graduated and were called "Marines" for the first time we felt like there was no power on earth that could hold us back, except for a Drill Instructor!
No brass no ammo !!
As A VN vet, and a USMC vet, all that you see was more than dramatization, it was real life. I lived thru many of the events portrayed in the movie. From Boot Camp, to be in-country. This movie and Platoon were as close to being there as you might want to get. A round from a vc rifle, after 8 brief 8 months. But I did get 17 confirmed kills, a fact that at age 69, I am not proud of
Thank your your brave service. 🙏
Respect.
I think it is a "refreshing" experience after the WW2 movies. The thing is: WW2 is regarded as one of the big heroic wars of the US, so therefore it is heavily romanticized, while the 'Nam war had a very negative press at its time and even today. It is generally regarded as a senseless war fought to serve US political and military, and weapon industry interests. Regardless whether these portrayals are accurate or not, it is how they were seen in the bigger public. So in WW2 movies you can see big heroic epic, and in Vietman films (like Apocalypse Now, Deer Hunter, Platoon) you will see a senseless crippling war. Also WW2 was fought by a traditional generation with a sense of duty (and even with a bit of naivety) and the Nam war by a more cynical generation who grew up with Sex, Booze, and Rock and Roll, so you will see quite different soldier personalities in those eras.
Your first impression was absolutely on point.
I always wondered when there will be a realistic WW2 movie showing a heroic German soldier, maybe 200 years from now, lol.
@@attieschutte7116 Although by some definition a German soldier may be described as brave, the fact the German war effort was basically crimes against humanity, it would be unlikely any one of them would be honored with that term.
@@stevenmeyer9674 I don't care about ideology, or war effort or results. I am talking about a or any individual event that went the other way around raping Americans being hunted down by brave German soldier - now there is a movie. It has reached a point anyway where viewers are suppose to be scared of vampires, zombies and Nazis. It is not a political ideology it is mythology by now.
Well with WW2 there was a clear line with clear enemies who could easily be called "bad actors", "aggressors", etc. There was a multi-national alliance operating in multiple theaters and the service men and women clearly believed they were saving the world from something evil. Vietnam had NONE of that, it was sketchy from the get-go and quickly fell apart from a conventional war into chaos, with guerrilla fighters fighting under the guise of civilians to help paint the US troops as civilian-killing monsters. So you had an elusive enemy, a very intimidating neighbor who was friends with the enemy (China) watching closely, and an unsupportive public back home shitting on troops many of whom were drafted and didn't ask to go, and Jane. Fucking. Fonda. It wasn't just "sex booze and rock n' roll" that broke our troops. Communism was a threat but it wasn't the balls-out blitzkrieg threat that Nazi Germany and Japan were, and it just didn't feel worth it.
My army training was exactly like this. I was 17 when I joined. You ask "why treat them like this ?". It's to break you down first to rebuild you as a soldier. And a soldier that can function in a unit. We also had a guy like Pvt Pile who shot himself. This movie very closely resembles my army training. Even the shouting.
When you go to war, you have to function as a piece of a machine. It has to be second nature.
R Lee ermy plays the drill instructor in the boot camp portion. He was an actual marine and alot of his lines were improvised.
It just a marine. But a drill instructor as well
He visited us on the line in 2003 for Mail Call and during one of the breaks he did the intro speech line-for-line. It was chilling.
He did an autograph session afterward. I still have the camelbak he signed. He wouldn't do anything other than "Semper Fi! R. Lee Ermy" and that was great. A couple of our mechanics were in line giggling the whole time. They got up there and the next the we heard was "HO-LY Shi7! Saving SILVERMAN!"
I love being a Marine.
He was hired as a consultant but, after a few days, Kubrick liked him so much that he fired the actor and gave Ermey the part.
@@angelfontanez9936 The actor that Ermey replaced later was used in the chopper gunner scene. I think it was best he was replaced, he was better as that nutty fucker on the gun than as Hartman.
R Lee also did an awesome job as a Drill Instructor in "The Boys of Company C"
I went thru Paris Island in the early 1970’s, the Vietnam War was just winding down. It may be very hard for you to grasp, but for most of us it was an amazing experience. By then we were transitioning to an all volunteer force, and actually being struck by a drill instructor was less common than depicted here. Like virtually everyone in my platoon, I was a volunteer.
It was brutally hard, but very carefully monitored. The single most unrealistic was the unsupervised recruit with a weapon, that just did not happen when I was a boot. The language in the first week was astounding, the stress was incredible, but within days we could spot who among us was worth fighting along side. This training is primarily designed to create a bond between you.
From the time of Sparta, the Concept of bonding two, then 5 soldiers together in a very small team that will not desert each other has been how armies have avoided the disaster of units breaking in combat.
Believe it or not, by the forth week, there were reactions between the DI’s and boots that were hilarious, and although they happened to me almost 50 years ago, guys from that time period still will laugh about them.
I got my butt kicked the night before graduation while I was firewatch by a drunken DI from another platoon. He came into my squadbay by mistake and thought I was in the wrong one. My SDI came out and put a stop to it. He took me inside the DI hut...which I had never been in...and asked if I wanted to press charges. I said, "No sir!, This recruit wants to graduate tomorrow and be a Marine." He sent me back to my rack like nothing happened. I told my Mom the bruise on my forehead was an accident on the confidence course. Was it tough? Yes...especially since I was at Parris Island from June through August. But I don't regret a second of it.
@@kennieharris327 Semper Fi! And sorry that happened to you but most of my platoon would have done the same as you. I was lucky, my Drill instructor was a short, powerfully built man of unbelievable composure and discipline. He looked every bit the Drill of legend, but was promoted in the middle of our cycle, and was replaced by a tall lanky marine with a bit of a pot belly, and spoke softly. As a platoon we were disappointed, he just did not at first glance measure up. We quickly learned that soft spoken and not ram rod posture ready Marine Sergeants could be hard and relentless task masters.
Learned a lot I will never forget from both those men.
The reason for the verbal and physical treatment that begins immediately in boot camp is the beginning of prolonged stress inoculation. They purposefully create a "hostile" environment to cause stress and trigger a person's fight or flight reaction to weed out those that can't function in that environment. War is 24/7 stress and if you can't handle it for long periods, then you become a dangerous liability to your teammates. They all get their heads shaved to put them on the same level regardless of who they were in society and those marching chants are for rhythm (so they can march longer) as well as cohesion and comradery -- to rely on each other in a crappy situation, which is what they have to do on the battlefield.
There is no "nice way" to prepare the average citizen for war because of the relatively short amount of time to train them. The fight or flight response requires you to actually think you're in danger, so, it is what it is.
So Hartman was essentially trying to save Leonards' Life? He saw that he probably won't be able to make it and tried to break him, make him leave?
@@derworfnet I’m pretty sure Hartman and Leonard followed what was written in the script for dramatic effect. No one is forced to stay in boot camp, you can be discharged.
This was during the draft… you could just leave.
It's not (only) stress inoculation, it's a process of mental and physical abuse to break you, and "build you back up" with the group as the only support structure, so that you will be absolutely loyal and obedient. It's _precisely_ what a lot of cults have done and still do, and the members do the exact same thing you're doing here - find excuses for the abuse they went through, declare it as "necessary" and all that bullshit.
Sure, it "works" for the purpose it's designed for, but it's demonstrably not necessary. Not to mention that it changes your personality to what the "instructors" want. Don't US Americans value their freedom and individuality...? I thought I heard something about that... must have misheard...
@@CarbonPixel78 they were drafted. I am not sure they had a choice but to remain.
9:44 What Joker means by Leonard being a section 8 is him saying that Leonard is mentally unfit to serve in the army.
My brother completed Basic Training in 1991. He said this movie was shockingly realistic to his experience. He brought home a 'yearbook' of sorts that had the enlistment photo of his entire barracks. He asked me to look at the pictures and see if I could find which ones 'washed out'... it was surprisingly easy. There were three that looked frightened or empty or naive in their pictures. One specifically reminded me of Lawrence. They did not complete Basic.
"Give him a second."
You don't get a second on the battlefield.
When I saw you were going to watch this, my first thought was "oh, she's not going to like that..." Definitely an uncomfortable movie, but you pulled through it with flying colors. Thanks for sharing!
My gradydaddy told me to watch this before I went to boot camp. This is how marines are trained.
In regards to Pvt 'Pyle', during the vietnam war there was something called 'Project 100,000' (also informally known as McNamera's Morons).
The idea was to take men who had lower IQs and mental deficiencies who NEVER would have been able to meet the military's standards, and subsequently draft them.
The official reasoning was that they'd take these 'low functioning' low IQ men and give them life skills through the service. But the sad reality was they were basically to be used as cannon fodder. The majority of the 'morons' were sent to the frontline infantry and a good percentage would never come home...
Leonard 'Gomer Pyle' Lawrence really had no business being in the Marines, but was likely drafted as part of the project.
It seems more likely that was the idea. Let them go fight a war and if they die there, good riddance.
The marine corps even in Vietnam was volunteer only nobody was drafted into the marine Corps they might have to joined the Corps to avoid being drafted into the Army.
@@CenlaSelfDefenseConcepts
Nobody was directly drafted into the Marines like they were into the Army, but in times of recruitment shortages; they would often divert draftees from the Army to the USMC.
Also, the Marines were the branch most people were trying to avoid as they had the highest death and injury rate of any of the armed forces in the conflict.
@@CenlaSelfDefenseConcepts I'm pretty sure they drafted marines during Vietnam but not as much as the Army
@Felip E
Not true.
High IQs are pretty common among Spec Ops and fighter pilots.
Having gone through it, that was boot camp. It worked as long as you realize that it is not personal. Everyone had to endure it and if you could do that it was actually kind of fun. Remember that they are preparing you to travel the world, meet interesting people and kill them. In that context it works
Exactly!
Love the dry humour there, mate. And you're right.
@@skylinerunner1695 American and maybe brit humour is going around the world and killing people of developing countries to become "men" and feeling bad about it later on. Arrogant.
This movie was one of the reasons my dad joined the Marines in the late 80s. He went to Camp Pendelton for bootcamp and he told me it was exactly like this movie only they didn't use racial slurs nor were the DIs allowed to hit them and such. If my dad didn't join the Corps I wouldn't exist since it's how he met my mom who was in the Navy. Anyway I followed my moms path by joining the Navy in 2018 and currently still serving!
Thank you!!!
Your dad saw THAT movie and thought: hey, I wanna do that! Wow!
@@vidarvaggen Actually it was a combination of this movie and his boss at the print shop he worked at. His bosses son had joined the Marines and my dad was 27 with no life direction. His boss told him how his son was doing great in the Marines and my dad wanted to leave small town Missouri and do something with his life. He only saw this movie after that and it sorts encouraged him. My dad was in a typical poor working class lifestyle so it was only natural. He'd either stay in the trailer park or go out and become something from the military.
R. Lee Ermey, who played the Drill Instructor, was a real life DI who replaced the original casting, He was one of the only Actors to work with Stanley Kubrick and actually improvise his lines. Something Kubrick was known to never allow.
The song "The Bird" refers to the helicopter. It was a big hit back in the day. In the army, you want someone who is mentally, physically and emotionally strong to have your back. Not someone who is sensitive or weak. That's why they break you down in training. To rebuild you!
R. Lee Ermy ad libbed much of his dialog in this movie. He just called on his memory of when he was an actual Marine Corp drill instructor.
The only actor Kubrick let adlib freely (besides Sellers) and he did very few takes.
Thanks Mr. IMDB
@@rdaws73 Wow, aren't you a singular wit?
The guy in the chopper, shooting at the civilians, initially would play the drill sergeant. Lee Ermy outdid him in an audition (from his own experience) and got the part, 'becoming' the first half of the movie.
Keep deleting my comment
Next, you should definitely look at Barry Lyndon from 1975. It’s one of the most amazing Kubrick films I’ve ever seen and also far too criminally underrated masterpiece.
Barry Lyndon is far superior to anything that Kubrick has ever made!
@@georgesykes394 No, it's not. Eyes Wide Shut and 2001 are his greatest artistic achievements. Not to take away anything from Barry Lyndon which is also a masterpiece. But Eyes Wide Shut allowed Kubrick to express himself more than anything he ever done and, by his own admission, it's his greatest contribution to art. Story and writing wise, Barry Lyndon is less impactful and relevant. In terms of craft, his core films are all on the same level.
@@FuzzyDlop That's your opinion Barry Lyndon in my opinion is his best work. The lighting in the scenes are phenomenal each set looks like a Oil painting the plot was interesting the score marvelous. The attention to detail in the movie is extremely well done. Especially when you look at the back story on how he actually went to NASA to get the cameras and lens to film the movie. Even before Ryan O Neal was cast in the movie he did wardrobe fitting over 6 months before production. And then sent him to Fencing school in preparation for those scenes in the movie.
Yes. Everything in the boot camp segment is very necessary. DIs are training young men not just to kill but to survive.
Ermey had mentioned in an interview that they were much more brutal during this time, because they reduced the time in basic training. The DIs felt it was important to help reduce the chances of them getting killed in Vietnam.
bullshit
The movie is about man’s inhumanity to his fellow man wether it’s from the boot camp scenes to the war. I was on the Island in 93 and our DI’s always said that each recruit came down with his mom on one hand and a senator on the other hand were the DI’s mean absolutely but that was to prepare you for the horrors of war
Cassie, I had a feeling this film would be too harsh for you. There are other films about that war which may be a little easier to digest. I would highly recommend Robin Williams in "Good Morning, Viet Nam". It's a true story about an Army Radio DJ who helped lift the troops spirits during the war. It's more of a comedy but it also has a lot of realism and some battle conflict scenes. You should watch that film, to offset the "burn" of the Stanley Kubrick film.
I concur
Good morning Vietnam
Then We were soldiers
True stories
I would suggest 'Casualties of War' for her to watch. :)
Wasn't Robin Air Force in the film? I could be mistaken.
@@BuccWylde you could be right. Sorry for the oversight. I just assumed it would be the Army running the radio station, based on nothing at all. Bad guess.
Fire watch is standing watch while others are asleep at night so you can wake everyone up in an emergency including fire.
This movie has always been polarizing and based on a lot of the comments, I see things haven't changed. This channel is centered around Cassie's reactions to these movies, not around the way we think she should react. She chose to watch a war movie for Memorial Day; for that I give her two thumbs up! No two people are ever going to react to any given situation exactly the same, so being critical of someone's reaction is asinine. If a person has not been through basic training, then no , you can not expect them to understand basic training. Movies are glorified entertainment and rarely ever come close to what real life situations truly entail, but they evoke emotions and reactions just the same. Not everyone jumps at every jump scare..... are they wrong? Of course not. Cassie has stated on numerous occasions that many of these movies will be hard for her because she has either avoided these types of movies up til now or they might be about subject matter that she is not comfortable with seeing or experiencing. Criticizing her reactions seems strange when I feel it would be a great time to say " Hey Cassie, good job. At least you gave it a try ". Even if she chose to never watch another war movie, she still has this one under her belt for reference. I'm sure this left her with lots of questions...which is the beginning of learning. Sorry for the long post.
No need to apologise for the length. . Great post, perfectly put. With you 100% 👍
Cassie has a tender heart and she is a lady. I am glad she choose to watch a Vietnam era movie, but it hurt my heart to watch how painful it was for her. The language alone is extremely vulgar and she is a lady and I don't approve of subjecting her to this. I guess I'll agree to disagree with you.
Outstanding and perfectly worded. This film is a very tough watch for many folks and based upon what we know about Cassie, (who is by all evidence, an incredibly sweet person) nobody should be surprised by her difficulty viewing this one.
Personally, I think Full Metal Jacket is an incredible movie with iconic performances from very gifted actors. I also get why quite a few people I know don't appreciate it in it's entirety.
@@yadaroni 'she is a lady' - the cringe is strong in this one oh jesus 😂