Controller GETS MAD AT STUDENT PILOT for Following Rules!

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  • Опубліковано 5 тра 2024
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 572

  • @VASAviation
    @VASAviation  23 дні тому +852

    Loved that student pilot's attitude! Also good on ATC for finally accomodating the guy!

    • @bludybrains
      @bludybrains 23 дні тому +2

      Hey Victor. Was wondering if we should send video recommendations to your email in your channel description?

    • @VASAviation
      @VASAviation  23 дні тому +11

      @@bludybrains send all the info to the email

    • @bludybrains
      @bludybrains 23 дні тому

      @@VASAviation i sent one last week to you about a taxiing event in KMLB. But never got a response. Im wondering if my email didnt go through.

    • @steven2145
      @steven2145 23 дні тому +4

      Sounded more like an instructor.

    • @charlesprenaveau4969
      @charlesprenaveau4969 23 дні тому +19

      @@steven2145it was me. At the time was just a PPL. Since then have gone on to get my CSEL.

  • @charlesprenaveau4969
    @charlesprenaveau4969 23 дні тому +451

    Hey this was me lol 😂😂I have since got my CSEL and can accept a 5kt tailwind per sop lol

    • @XetraRewop
      @XetraRewop 23 дні тому +39

      Congrats!! Expect more “mad” controllers throughout your career 😅

    • @BlackOpSource
      @BlackOpSource 23 дні тому +16

      Not your fault or anything but I gotta be honest, not being able to take a 5kt tailwind is super dumb.
      But their airplane their rules I guess.

    • @--SPQR--
      @--SPQR-- 19 днів тому +21

      ​@@BlackOpSourceit's dumb until it's not
      SOPs sometimes appear overkill until you learn about why they were implemented

    • @BlackOpSource
      @BlackOpSource 19 днів тому +38

      @@--SPQR-- The plane comes with an SOP, it's called the POH and is required to be in the aircraft. Every airplane I can recall flying had performance information for tailwinds up to 10 knots on both takeoff and landing.
      This restriction was put there by the insurance company, who for safety reasons would prefer that you never fly the airplane at all.

    • @garrettjohnson797
      @garrettjohnson797 16 днів тому

      This is incompetent and dangerous. Not your fault, but the schools.

  • @Astro95Media
    @Astro95Media 23 дні тому +1558

    Student pilot handled that beautifully and professionally and it softened the controller up pretty well so he could recover from the frustration. Fantastic exchange which could've easily gone south.

    • @ValNishino
      @ValNishino 23 дні тому +66

      Sounds like he's got a future in aviation. It takes a fair bit of intelligence to respond with that kind of coherence on a dime in a situation like this.

    • @bigphilnyc
      @bigphilnyc 23 дні тому +18

      Great young pilot.

    • @BrianMonette
      @BrianMonette 23 дні тому +31

      Facts. I admire this. Following the rules can save your life someday. That controllers petty mood shifted so fast, it’s comical.

    • @Pip2andahalf
      @Pip2andahalf 23 дні тому +13

      Yeah honestly exemplary from that student. Stayed calm and collected.

    • @JeshuaFlores-du1xv
      @JeshuaFlores-du1xv 23 дні тому +3

      good thing it went west!

  • @johnopalko5223
    @johnopalko5223 23 дні тому +202

    Practically speaking, a four-knot tailwind on a 10,000 foot runway would be no big deal. However, if you violate the SOP once and get away with it, it becomes tempting to violate it again, possibly with a stronger tailwind. It's called "normalization of deviance" and you don't want to go there.
    Kudos to the student pilot for refusing the clearance to 9R. I understand the controller's frustration but he did the right thing by updating the ATIS and turning the flow around.

    • @twentynineteen4687
      @twentynineteen4687 22 дні тому +3

      100% agree

    • @fyrfyter33
      @fyrfyter33 13 днів тому +6

      Normalization of deviance is what caused the Challenger shuttle disaster. There’s a really good video about it and normalization of deviance.

    • @wdtaut5650
      @wdtaut5650 9 днів тому

      "Normalization of deviance", haven't heard that one before. I like it.

    • @johnopalko5223
      @johnopalko5223 9 днів тому +5

      @@wdtaut5650 The phrase was coined by American sociologist Diane Vaughan in her 1996 book _The Challenger Launch Decision: Risky Technology, Culture, and Deviance at NASA._
      It's an extremely useful concept for explaining how people get into situations that one would think they would know to avoid.

    • @wdtaut5650
      @wdtaut5650 9 днів тому

      @@johnopalko5223 Thank you.

  • @davidmichael5573
    @davidmichael5573 23 дні тому +529

    Student said the magic word “unable.” And gave his reason. Controller didn’t like it and definitely showed that he didn’t like it. But student stuck to his word. Well done by the student. He showed PIC. And I totally understand why the controller was frustrated with this but he understood the situation as well once explained.

    • @Krakaet
      @Krakaet 18 днів тому +5

      Channeling his inner Sully.

    • @idkjames
      @idkjames 16 днів тому +3

      I woulda told him Titusville north 16 nm. See ya. Im a CPC and a license holder thats obscene. Need to update their SOP so id punish their students everytime. Did my PPL training at a one way in one way out field took tailwinds a lot as a student pilot.

    • @StolenJoker84
      @StolenJoker84 14 днів тому +15

      @@idkjamesYou can’t punish the pilot for following SOPs. Their SOP might be stupid and not make any sense, but I’m sure there’s a reason.

    • @idkjames
      @idkjames 14 днів тому

      @@StolenJoker84 dont have to reverse flow either

    • @AnorexicPandas
      @AnorexicPandas 13 днів тому

      I think that was the IP talking? Either way yes good airmanship, MLB is infamous for being short with students.

  • @RyanSymancek
    @RyanSymancek 23 дні тому +503

    That ended up kinda fine on both ends. I thought the controller asking “you can’t take a 4 knot tailwind on a 10,000ft runway?” was kinda funny. Didn’t seem mad, I mean the man has a point! Glad it didn’t get crazy heated and they all just worked together. It seemed pleasant at the end honestly.

    • @RichFreeman
      @RichFreeman 23 дні тому +17

      I don't know what he was flying, but I remember doing my first landing on a 10k runway in a 172. I was a brand new pilot but with the giant flat grass leading up to the runway it was like easy mode. I think we were reconfigured for taking back off before we got past the touchdown zone markers.

    • @RyanSymancek
      @RyanSymancek 22 дні тому +4

      @@RichFreeman He’s flying a Cherokee, so same idea haha!

    • @ro-86alkonost78
      @ro-86alkonost78 22 дні тому +26

      We once had a tailwind landing with a 172 on a runway which is much shorter than 10,000ft without overshooting the landing roll, so I'm sure the student won't overshoot if he's flying a similar aircraft, but if he's not allowed to do it because it's a rule in his company, then he shouldn't do it, or he'll get in trouble for that. At least the controller was open for amending the instructions so that the student won't violate his company rule.

    • @thedownwardmachine
      @thedownwardmachine 20 днів тому +14

      Yeah the controller seemed annoyed but no real issues. And the question was fair, he can't know the SOP for every outfit.

    • @AwestrikeFearofGods
      @AwestrikeFearofGods 19 днів тому +11

      Not only do tailwinds affect the length of the ground roll, but also yaw stability (i.e. ground loops). This rigid policy would make sense for non-steerable tailwheel aircraft, because tailwinds decrease rudder authority during ground roll.

  • @maxmustermann194
    @maxmustermann194 23 дні тому +882

    That's hardly mad, rather mildly frustrated.

    • @courgettee
      @courgettee 23 дні тому +31

      Must be a slow news day :) not a bad thing in aviation

    • @maurice7413
      @maurice7413 23 дні тому +83

      telling him he can go to another airport seemed a bit more than "mildly frustrated."

    • @blimpcommander1337
      @blimpcommander1337 23 дні тому +10

      @@maurice7413 not knowing when he could get them in he gave them an option.

    • @nokidding152
      @nokidding152 23 дні тому +26

      He was rude and unprofessional. Sure not yelling angrily, but more than mildly frustrated.

    • @zq3yp
      @zq3yp 23 дні тому +8

      @@plinsf its not clickbait, go read comments farther down from here, multiple people have stated MLB controllers are unhinged.

  • @TheMountain295
    @TheMountain295 23 дні тому +301

    Student pilot did an amazing job. Great communications everything was crystal clear.

    • @jimmiller5600
      @jimmiller5600 21 день тому +2

      FIT42 was top notch. You could hear the other students wobble a bit. Because they're students................ good luck to all of them.

  • @acirinelli
    @acirinelli 23 дні тому +210

    Knowing and following SOP and clearly communicating. This guy is ready for the airline world.

    • @KoiranenAerospace
      @KoiranenAerospace 19 днів тому +1

      To work in an airline with similar idiotic SOP. This kind of operations should not be even allowed.

    • @MikkoRantalainen
      @MikkoRantalainen 13 днів тому +2

      @@KoiranenAerospace This student obviously has the skills to be able to communicate within the company to fix the SOP.

  • @ryancrazy1
    @ryancrazy1 23 дні тому +377

    "tower if you can tell me that winds are calm, i can take 9R..."

    • @theegg-viator4707
      @theegg-viator4707 23 дні тому +15

      😁

    • @Relkond
      @Relkond 22 дні тому +6

      That's practically asking him to lie...

    • @t_t5222
      @t_t5222 20 днів тому +49

      ​@@Relkond you're a quick one

    • @Relkond
      @Relkond 20 днів тому +9

      @@t_t5222 nah - the quick one would have noted that lying and subterfuge in aviation has a greater tendency to kill than not doing those things.

    • @MrCrackbear
      @MrCrackbear 20 днів тому +19

      @@Relkond no, the quick one would have realized that the original comment is very obviously a joke.

  • @AryaShoa
    @AryaShoa 23 дні тому +193

    Good on the student for sticking to their SOP's even if winds seem relatively benign. Safety in aviation is built on adherence to safe & consistent practices, even though it may sometimes be tempting to just "send it". The controller wasn't really a bad person in this either. He had to get the airliner, who was already inbound for 9, down on the ground before he could switch the traffic flow. Sure he could've been a little "nicer" in the beginning, but it seems tensions cooled down at the end there.

    • @jamescollier3
      @jamescollier3 23 дні тому +1

      probably sick of the students and his job also

    • @patriotsfan1236
      @patriotsfan1236 18 днів тому

      I mean it was not unsafe at all to land with a 4th tail wind on a 10k foot runway. I commend him for following his schools procedures though.

    • @stevecarroll6760
      @stevecarroll6760 18 днів тому +1

      Follow the procedures and you’ll almost always be safe. The tower guy knew it, and he accepted it in the end it was the right thing to do.

  • @zone2Ironman
    @zone2Ironman 23 дні тому +344

    SOP: don’t land with tailwind
    Tower: ???
    Other guy: your wind readouts are garbage.
    Tower: true.
    Sounds like an issue that this particular school is on top of.

    • @Kincentc
      @Kincentc 23 дні тому +15

      Inaccuracies go both ways tho.... if the rule is for tailwind safety, how does it guard against an incorrect headwind from the tower that is actually a tailwind?

    • @mrjaycam18
      @mrjaycam18 23 дні тому +52

      @@Kincentceasy answer. Liability. These convos are obviously recorded so the student would be in the clear if they were given a headwind but it turned out not to be. Not their fault.

    • @Kincentc
      @Kincentc 23 дні тому

      @@mrjaycam18 legally correct but still silly to invent a rule around a bad windspeed readout

    • @artemkras
      @artemkras 23 дні тому +5

      @@Kincentc It seems like this is how humanity generally works )

    • @unclebounce1495
      @unclebounce1495 23 дні тому +14

      Makes perfect sense. If they have a habit of inaccurate wind readings, the only ones that are going to matter are when the wind readings are low. So it becomes a pattern of low wind readings (i.g. you said 5, it was 15. you said 15, it was 30, so on) So it makes sense for a local school to say "we set out limit extra low to cover the potential high variance of their BS equipment." If we say you said accept a wind reading of higher than 4, than that could cover up to 8 or 12 for their shyt equipment. Makes perfect sense. What's sad is if there are others who don't care enough to do that.

  • @Apollo580
    @Apollo580 23 дні тому +44

    I initially thought the tower was going to be passive aggressive the rest of the time but he actually showed quite a bit of class towards the end. Good on The student to set the standard.

    • @marklupus
      @marklupus 23 дні тому +3

      MLB controllers talk to these guys every day. Many I'm sure are friend with the controllers so it wouldn't do any good to act a fool. Kind of odd that he only learned of that school's tailwind policy during this occasion.

    • @Apollo580
      @Apollo580 23 дні тому +3

      @@marklupus I’m surprised about that too. Normally that’s something airport operations are very aware of. Either way this was a much better outcome than what the title suggests.

  • @UpAndReady
    @UpAndReady 23 дні тому +407

    That honestly went about as well as it could have. Controller doesn’t know what he doesn’t know, but no GA plane should ever expect to just mosey on over to an airport with airline ops and expect them to bend over backwards for an overly conservative flight school SOP. Good on FIT42 for being amenable to holding, and the controller for not having an attitude about it after the fact.

    • @Apollo580
      @Apollo580 23 дні тому +32

      I mean the tower was still being passive aggressive throughout the entire time afterwards, just not towards 42.

    • @someguyontheinternet7165
      @someguyontheinternet7165 23 дні тому +52

      The flight school is based out of there. Most tower controllers have some familiarity with their local school’s overly conservative rules for things like tail winds and LAHSOs. Felt real goofy the day I had to tell the Bradley international controller I was unable to accept a LAHSO when its distance was 50% longer than the entire runway my flight school was based out of.

    • @bbgun061
      @bbgun061 23 дні тому +15

      This isn't JFK. AirNav says Melbourne has 284 operations per day, of which 4% (or 11) are commercial. I trained at KPIE, which has many more airline ops and the controllers never had any problems accommodating us. Sometimes we had to circle or extend downwind to fit into the flow. But I never would have heard something like this.

    • @jockspringer9457
      @jockspringer9457 23 дні тому +4

      @@bbgun061 Correct. FIT is most of the daily traffic there

    • @RichFreeman
      @RichFreeman 23 дні тому +1

      ​@@someguyontheinternet7165do those flight schools clear their procedures with the FAA? I mean, anybody with an instructors license could give a student a crazy instruction and it isn't like ATC has to honor it unless the pilot wants to declare an emergency.
      There is certainly no FAA regulation preventing pilots from landing with a tail wind without a commercial license. It is pretty common for commercial airports to operate with slight tailwinds if it fits their normal patterns.

  • @bradmikkelsen8960
    @bradmikkelsen8960 23 дні тому +451

    ATC was a fine guy, he even apologised, probably just had a bad day.

    • @mattmcginn8096
      @mattmcginn8096 23 дні тому +58

      Yeah don't see a big issue here. Mild annoyance at a pretty unusual request, then worked to get him in quickly and safely.
      "You might want to go to a different airport" honestly is an appropriate reccomendation if your SOP prevents you from landing with ANY tail wind and this is a field with major airlines.

    • @SuperMyacc
      @SuperMyacc 23 дні тому +46

      He didn't apologize. "The different airport" was a bit out of line, not a big issue tho.

    • @billymacktexasdetective5827
      @billymacktexasdetective5827 23 дні тому +23

      You must be commenting on the wrong video. ATC didn't apologize for anything in this video.

    • @brian.webster
      @brian.webster 23 дні тому +28

      He's not a "fine guy". His initial attitude is dangerous. If he did it here, it is very likely that it represents a pattern of behavior. He's letting his emotions impact his performance and that's not what we need with ATC

    • @TylerEaves
      @TylerEaves 23 дні тому +6

      @@brian.webster Isn't the overly familiar chit chat at the end a break of proper communication hygeine too? The entire frequency doesn't need to hear "have a nice night guys" to a plane already on the ramp.

  • @bad05ford
    @bad05ford 23 дні тому +98

    Excellent communication by the student and good job sticking to procedures

  • @kpdkchristian2570
    @kpdkchristian2570 23 дні тому +88

    The only way to know for sure that everything's ok is when you get a crispy SEEYA from the controller.

    • @VictoryAviation
      @VictoryAviation 23 дні тому +4

      Honestly I always smile when I hear that exchange or get one back from a controller.
      When the Chiefs were getting ready to play the superbowl, every once in a while someone would be handed off and they’d yell “GO CHIEFS”. And the approach and center guys would yell it back. It always made me laugh. Cool
      As hell. And then we won the superbowl again 😍

    • @lostship88
      @lostship88 23 дні тому +2

      Just like the one in Truckee

  • @flightsimguides
    @flightsimguides 23 дні тому +33

    the frustration was real on that one, "you can't do a 4 knot tailwind landing on a 10k foot runway?"... I felt that eyeroll from the other side of my monitor, lol

  • @MaddogLexi
    @MaddogLexi 23 дні тому +76

    Wouldn't really even call this ATC being mad. Everyone did the right thing here, ATC realized he can't force the student to go against SOP and then got the JetBlue in before changing the actives. Telling the student to hold while switching the actives was absolutely acceptable, and everyone got in no problem following that. Good work on everyone involved.

    • @rffarms
      @rffarms 23 дні тому +3

      Only problem I had Tower should have never told FIT42 to squak VFR. Former FIT student Class of 76, Former ATP retired ATCS

  • @EricTheBlue2010
    @EricTheBlue2010 23 дні тому +69

    Of course the cirrus calls in without the atis

    • @jeremey2072
      @jeremey2072 11 днів тому

      They fly by their own rules 😅

  • @rocketman6973
    @rocketman6973 17 днів тому +6

    The student was perfect, the controller was arrogant and wrong. This is very concerning, especially with a student pilot who might just accept a bad clearance. It's not about a 4 knot tailwind on a long runway, it's about roles, responsibilities and safety. I've been in a few situations like this over the years (rare but it happens) and it's those times the pilot needs to remind the controller that he's not the pilot in command, as this excellent student did. The pilot and controller should work together, but the pilot is responsible for the safe completion of the flight (see FAR 91.3). For example, I was flying from OKC to CLT IFR in an unpressurized single when a line of t-storms built up over Knoxville, so Memphis Center and I discussed it and then I diverted south. On contact with Atlanta Center I was instructed to proceed direct to Knoxville. I replied, "Unable due to weather". The controller came back sarcastically with, "You can't fly to Knoxville?", to which I replied, "Unable due to the line of thunderstorms I just vectored 80 miles south to get around, request direct CLT (I was on a GPS direct clearance)". Another, more mature voice came on and asked "Sir, can you accept direct Spartanburg VOR then direct?" "Yes sir, I can do that!" Again, most controllers are great and many more times I've had great experiences with controllers going out of their way to help, but this arrogant attitude should never be acceptable. It's counter to aviation safety and should be actively discouraged.

    • @hxhdfjifzirstc894
      @hxhdfjifzirstc894 6 днів тому

      The controller was quite rude and sarcastic. I don't find that acceptable... especially since the pilot was perfectly polite.

  • @isilver78
    @isilver78 23 дні тому +19

    I've been based at MLB for ~30 years. The tower gets a bad rap with the flight training community but they have to put up with a lot. Since the tower went contract, they've been chronically understaffed and the flight training traffic is at its peak. Over the years I've heard some pretty bad exchanges but recently, to their credit, the controllers seem to have become more patient. I've flown thousands of flights out of there, and I've only dealt with a controller having a bad day a handful of times. They're human.

    • @captainchaos3667
      @captainchaos3667 17 днів тому

      What does "went contract" mean?

    • @aaawac2174
      @aaawac2174 16 днів тому +1

      ​@@captainchaos3667 The FAA contracts a company to hire controllers instead of the FAA hiring the controller themselves

  • @jbreezy101
    @jbreezy101 23 дні тому +86

    Meteorologist here. If the wind readouts
    Are
    Bad. The station has to be downgraded to AWOS until it is fixed
    Or use the $ in the text message

    • @jurgengjidia8657
      @jurgengjidia8657 16 днів тому

      Why is it spaced like it’s supposed to be an acronym?

    • @jbreezy101
      @jbreezy101 16 днів тому

      @@jurgengjidia8657 why I spaced my comment out? Just the spacebar being so close to enter.

    • @RJiiFin
      @RJiiFin 11 днів тому +1

      @@jurgengjidia8657 Just read the first letter of each line. MABO!

    • @reddragonflyxx657
      @reddragonflyxx657 9 днів тому

      ​@@jbreezy101Downgraded to "automated weather observing system"? Where can I look this rule (or at least the different grades of weather stations) up?

    • @hxhdfjifzirstc894
      @hxhdfjifzirstc894 6 днів тому +1

      @@RJiiFin Yep, MABO always applies, in situations like this.

  • @randyporter3491
    @randyporter3491 14 днів тому +3

    This was an impressive exchange. The student here was 100% professional, said exactly the right things and did what he was asked. The controller is dealing with a lot and his frustration showed. However, in the end, the situation didn't get worse, it got better and everyone understood each other's perspective in the end. Thanks for sharing this great interaction.

  • @KPMACHINE1
    @KPMACHINE1 23 дні тому +11

    I’m not sure I would consider him mad. I consider this a perfect quick and professional conversation between pilot and ATC. Everyone on both sides should learn from this. That’s why I’m here! Thanks VAS!

    • @vanessaruiz4705
      @vanessaruiz4705 16 днів тому

      i mean,he literally told him to go to another airport. How is that professional?

    • @rubenjanssen1672
      @rubenjanssen1672 День тому

      wel if the controler knows he can not acomodate that might be the best option as piston powerd aircraft have a defined time they can be up in the sky
      @@vanessaruiz4705

  • @alexmozie6301
    @alexmozie6301 23 дні тому +87

    ahh, the "ssSSEEYUH" signoff, the ultimate sign of respect between pilot and controller. best possible ending imo for something that couldve turned ugly

  • @ChristopherT_
    @ChristopherT_ 23 дні тому +6

    Is Squidward flying FIT36? 😂

  • @luschmiedt1071
    @luschmiedt1071 23 дні тому +35

    Great video for showing that conext matters. If you had cut off the video after the first exchange i would have a very different opinion of the controller 😅

  • @jaredh723
    @jaredh723 19 днів тому +3

    I love shit like this. Controller was slightly frustrated and I understand his point and the student handled it like a boss. Everyone was able to have a good laugh at the end. Good on everyone

  • @ocscmike
    @ocscmike 23 дні тому +122

    I love ya Victor but don't jump the shark and get all click baity on us. You could call him annoyed but the all caps MAD AT STUDENT PILOT is a bit of a stretch. 🤣

    • @theegg-viator4707
      @theegg-viator4707 23 дні тому +7

      Exacccttttly

    • @VASAviation
      @VASAviation  23 дні тому +39

      My opinion, my titles. Also based on the email from the follower. You should check out the vast majority of commenters locals from MLB. Calling clickbait is your own opinion too :)

    • @budguy21
      @budguy21 23 дні тому +16

      @@VASAviation its ALL of our opinion

    • @theegg-viator4707
      @theegg-viator4707 22 дні тому +11

      @@VASAviationAmerican English Apparently is NOT your mother language. You need to study / educate yourself more about the meaning of the word “mad”…. 🤷🏼

    • @JakeTishman
      @JakeTishman 21 день тому +3

      MLB has some of the rudest controllers dealing with flight training…

  • @dustinengel4852
    @dustinengel4852 21 день тому +2

    Awesome that the student stayed calm, awesome that the controller calmed down. Great example of how important attitude is.

  • @NoahsBox
    @NoahsBox 23 дні тому +5

    Yeah, its silly that the flight school wont allow that, but at the same time, its the school's aircraft, the pilot has to play by those rules.

  • @DB-rc9ln
    @DB-rc9ln 23 дні тому +8

    Yup, sounds like Melbourne tower

  • @JackedRado71
    @JackedRado71 23 дні тому +7

    Either that is a very seasoned “student,” or the instructor was running comms. That was cleaner than some of my better days. Luckily the cirrus guy lightened the mood

    • @charlesprenaveau4969
      @charlesprenaveau4969 23 дні тому +8

      I was solo. At the time, I had roughly 200 hours. Since then, I have gotten my CSEL and am working on CFI.

    • @SuperEddietv
      @SuperEddietv 4 дні тому

      Cirrus guy was a dick.

  • @Roca891
    @Roca891 17 днів тому +2

    There was no reason for the controller to be so rude to the student. I’m tired of controllers being so dismissive of GA pilots. They have as much right to the airspace as the air carrier.

    • @aaawac2174
      @aaawac2174 16 днів тому

      Ironically, the biggest issue I've seen on the space coast for controllers is embry riddle students. They think they own the area and can do anything they want. When they get a PPD, they whine about it over the radio.

  • @comfortchen
    @comfortchen 23 дні тому +6

    I'm also at flight school in FL
    we all try to keep away from this airport unless needed
    everyone knows this tower is aggresive on the radio

    • @zq3yp
      @zq3yp 23 дні тому +2

      I wish the people making these comments were farther towards the top. no one understands KMLB controllers are some of the worst in the state

    • @thugduck825
      @thugduck825 23 дні тому +2

      I’m happy I am seeing this I fly to MLB many times and one of them in particular with the souther accent is very snarky and rude. Even when you follow their directions they still bark at you when they are in the wrong and never apologize. I heard they are understaffed so I understand how stressful it can get for them.

    • @zq3yp
      @zq3yp 23 дні тому +3

      @@thugduck825 I don’t think it has anything to do with staffing, I got my ppl here in 2019 and the controllers were just as rude. They hate their jobs. Who wants to control an airspace full of brand new students, most being foreign, and the occasional airliner every 5 hours.

    • @thugduck825
      @thugduck825 23 дні тому

      @@zq3yp true but if I was a controller it would be a great airport to gain experience kind of like how we go to the regionals to build that turbine time

  • @clydemactavish3457
    @clydemactavish3457 20 днів тому +3

    This is a really great exchange from both. I'm impressed at how both handled the situation, even if tower was a little scrappy at first. They ultimately worked together.
    Student was respectfully, strict on their SOP which there's nothing wrong with. On the same note, the SOP seemed a little rigid. A landing would have been easy with the tailwind, which is why tower seemed a little "okay that's dumb"

  • @jondavid4747
    @jondavid4747 18 днів тому +2

    Forget SOP. Unable to accept 9R, if you have questions, please go read FAR 91.3 first.

  • @TmanTV3
    @TmanTV3 21 день тому +3

    MLB never changes. Student pilots have been taking crap from that tower ever since that tower was built. I've even gotten yelled at by them as an airline pilot lol.

  • @Furious321
    @Furious321 23 дні тому +14

    This would've been more acceptable if FIT wasn't *based out of* Melbourne. How the hell would any controller on shift not know about a major flight school's SOP on their own field? "You can go to another airport"??? Fuck right off with that one.

    • @CaptainKevin
      @CaptainKevin 22 дні тому +2

      He did say they couldn't take a tailwind until they had their commercial, so how would the controller know what rating the pilot holds.

    • @Furious321
      @Furious321 22 дні тому +2

      @@CaptainKevin He doesn't need to know the details. He needs to know that you don't tell a student pilot (callsign indicates this) who's trying to RTB that he can just go land at another airport instead.
      "Hi, I'd like to come home now. Is that okay?"
      - "Nope. I run this shit. Active runways are what they are."

    • @CaptainKevin
      @CaptainKevin 22 дні тому +2

      @@Furious321 You asked how the controller wouldn't know what the flight school's SOP is, I answered that question. The pilot stated that they weren't allowed to take a tailwind unless they had a commercial, so I don't know how the controller would know that. I can't comment as to why he said what he said.

    • @Furious321
      @Furious321 22 дні тому +1

      @@CaptainKevin Not "know the SOP"; "know *about* the SOP".
      For example, LAHSO was not permitted where I trained. If the home airport controller cleared us for that, we'd reply "Negative LAHSO, student pilot". Naturally, he'd clear us for full length instead, or change runways to accommodate. I couldn't imagine the guy coming back with "You can't land on the 7500ft portion of the 10500ft runway?". He just has to know the policies exist, not why it was instated, or what the book actually states.

    • @SEAAviator
      @SEAAviator 22 дні тому

      @@Furious321 To be fair the LAHSO thing is a bit different because universally it's pretty much an unwritten (but also technically written) rule that student pilots shouldn't accept LAHSOs.

  • @harmstrongg
    @harmstrongg 14 днів тому +1

    Yeah the controller doesn't sound mad at all. At first he sounds shocked, then frustrated, but this never gets to the level of anger. That student has definite PIC energy, though, love it.

  • @johndee3868
    @johndee3868 13 днів тому +1

    Very pro behaviour from the pilot, and good on ATC for lightening up.

  • @TheLikeys
    @TheLikeys 23 дні тому +4

    It took me way too long to realise this is Melbourne, Florida and not Australia and was so irritated by the American tail number xD

  • @cfg003
    @cfg003 16 днів тому +1

    KMLB is ridiculous. I got screamed at when I was a student pilot because I did a go around... He told me not to do it again because I "mess up" his sequence. I was absolutely flabbergasted.

    • @aaawac2174
      @aaawac2174 16 днів тому +1

      You can actually request the towers number to report the controller for unsafe behavior. It throws the whole power dynamic that tower thinks they have into a shitstorm because now they don't know what to do.

  • @dillcifer
    @dillcifer 18 днів тому +1

    As a student pilot on a solo, I was once on freq with SLC approach. They cleared me into Bravo airspace on a transition route. I told them unable, per the FARs… again and again I told them. The controller tried to convince me that I was wrong for 5 minutes straight.
    Very sad that a student pilot knows the rules of their own airspace better than a handful of controllers. And this is coming from a retired controller

  • @banzaiib
    @banzaiib 15 днів тому +1

    "Find another airport..." Very professional

  • @MrDirigible
    @MrDirigible 12 днів тому

    I love this channel, I’ve lived in the Melbourne area since 2017, was not expecting to see a video on MLB, good on all parties involved, excellent communication and attitudes to handle things appropriately. I’ve seen other videos where this same kind of interaction results in massive fights.

  • @danwybrow7226
    @danwybrow7226 23 дні тому +3

    FIT42 was completely professorial the whole time and 3CK did an AWESOME job getting the controller to really loosen back up. This is how it should be done when frustrations arise 🤘🏻

    • @danwybrow7226
      @danwybrow7226 23 дні тому +1

      … and as a 141 student, I TOTALLY get why FIT42 had to stand firm. 😅

  • @ryancrazy1
    @ryancrazy1 23 дні тому +19

    but yeah can we get a round of applause for these guys. Frustrating day/delay but got it resolved with no hard feelings.

  • @CiarraiAnn
    @CiarraiAnn 17 днів тому +1

    Who was mad? I didn't hear anyone who sounded mad, and I'm a Minnesotan. We're known for being oversensitive to people being "mad" at us.
    It's not as though the ATC was making excuses. He made a statement about the reliability of their equipment when it comes to wind speed. The pilot acknowledged that it was a problem at this airport.
    Why create conflict where there is none? There's enough conflict in the world.

  • @thatinventionsus
    @thatinventionsus 23 дні тому +2

    FIT42 can be my wingman anytime. FIT42: "BS* you can be mine!"

  • @TobinTwinsHockey
    @TobinTwinsHockey 18 днів тому +1

    The “winds calm” and “I’d love to help you but I had to change operations” was just a tad passive aggressive. The other pilot making fun of it is annoying as well.

  • @rclarkcarpenter
    @rclarkcarpenter 14 днів тому +1

    The controller needs to be suspended. I’ve flown professionally for 24 years and short of a controller in the northeast I’ve never heard a singular request completely change the mood and attitude of a controller. And it went on for minutes. He needs a serious attitude adjustment. There is no place in our business for such a pouty, sarcastic and and confrontational exchange.

  • @dougfraser77
    @dougfraser77 23 дні тому +2

    Tower didn't seem "mad" just slightly frustrated, and was pretty good-natured in general

  • @squamye5347
    @squamye5347 23 дні тому +4

    MLB atc is always “fun” when it’s busy. Controller was probably in a fast paced mood.

  • @CAPFlyer
    @CAPFlyer 23 дні тому +57

    I actually understand the tower's frustration here. That SOP is super conservative to the point of, in my opinion, being detrimental to the skill building of the student pilots they are training. I could understand a restriction to like 5 knots for a tailwind of any runway under 5,000' or something like that, but not allowing *any* tailwind until they get a Commercial is just asking for problems if they choose not to continue and not having the skills, much less the judgement to understand how to land with a tailwind. There are many airports, especially in hilly/mountain areas (which are a lot of the US despite popular belief) where you *have* to land with a tailwind. Not knowing how to do that from early in your flying career? Unacceptable.

    • @tedsaylor6016
      @tedsaylor6016 23 дні тому +12

      This (IMHO) stupid rule/procedure is because the Flite School (FIT) wants to kick as much risk down the road as possible. It was written by committee and has no provision for runway length or actual risk decision making by the pilot. So the actual pilots are treated with "kid gloves" rules until at some point in the future they will need to deal with a real "adverse situation". Flite schools here in Phoenix have rules against taking the planes to Payson or (god forbid) Sedona due to the "challenge" involved. I hope these new fangled pilots don't fold up when actually flying the line and things don't go to "procedure".

    • @josh3771
      @josh3771 23 дні тому +7

      Agree, with a 10k/ft runway not being able to accept a 4knot tailwind seems inappropriate. Defeats the spirit and meaning of why the rule exists.

    • @thomasdalton1508
      @thomasdalton1508 23 дні тому +5

      I would guess it is imposed by their insurance company. The insurance company doesn't want to pay to fix planes that students crash by landing fast. A long runway doesn't matter if you veer off the runway.

    • @CAPFlyer
      @CAPFlyer 23 дні тому +3

      @@thomasdalton1508 If it's insurance doing it, then they need to find a new insurance company because that's only guaranteeing future claims.
      I can understand not wanting to let students fly off actual grass strips, especially in aircraft with wheel pants, until they get their PPL. I can't understand removing *basic* flying skills from training. How to handle a tailwind is just as important if not more important that learning how to land with a crosswind. It's unacceptable to remove that training from the basic syllabus.

    • @thomasdalton1508
      @thomasdalton1508 23 дні тому +1

      @@CAPFlyer It's probably not the insurance company, but the school's willingness to pay the necessary insurance premiums. It is expensive to insure students to fly your planes, but that is a cost of doing business as a flying school. I'm guessing they are unwilling to accept that.

  • @LittleJennings38
    @LittleJennings38 17 днів тому +1

    There’s always the “accidental hot mic button“ time out you can give the controller for a minute or two.

  • @elevatevolusia
    @elevatevolusia 23 дні тому +3

    I fly at Epic Flight Academy and we try to avoid going to Melbourne when we can due to behavior like this. I remember one night we requested a Stop and Go, which we did and it was approved. We stopped for 3 seconds before taking off again and the controller gave us a hard time saying we didn't stop like we were supposed to

    • @zq3yp
      @zq3yp 23 дні тому +3

      yea i flew with Melbourne Flight Training and heard issues on the radio daily from mediocre events that the controllers brought out of proportion.

  • @dub2967
    @dub2967 22 дні тому +2

    1:40 , gotcha! Lol runway Change!

  • @2301CE
    @2301CE 20 днів тому +1

    Everything was great here.
    Controller didn’t know it was against SOPs and when he was told he accommodated.
    FYI, landing with “any” tailwind is challenging as you’re going faster than you expect the plane to be at that stage.
    I’ve done my share and it’s always a bit weird… and I am commercial.

  • @Blue_Camera_Cat
    @Blue_Camera_Cat 23 дні тому +3

    What an interesting conversation!

  • @billlitfin5089
    @billlitfin5089 14 днів тому +1

    That student will be a good and safe pilot. That is what matters.

  • @toddw6716
    @toddw6716 17 днів тому +1

    Oh, this pilot is going to be a gem.

  • @henrikforsman2530
    @henrikforsman2530 15 днів тому +1

    Student pilot to ATC: I have a number for you to call.

  • @jimmiller5600
    @jimmiller5600 21 день тому +1

    Congrats to everybody for working stuff out. Good job.

  • @ro-86alkonost78
    @ro-86alkonost78 22 дні тому +2

    The ATC wasn't really mad. He may probably be annoyed, but he didn't blame the student pilot for that because his instructions were in violation of the student's company SOP. It's good that he still gave him different instructions, so the student won't get in trouble with his school or company. Asking the student if he can't take a 4-knot tailwind with a 10,000 runway and telling him "Well, I advise you go to another airport then..." in a mildly annoyed manner are completely unnecessary though.

  • @sugershakify
    @sugershakify 15 днів тому +1

    You only need to no one magic word if you think a controller is telling you to do something you dont/cant/wont do ..... "unable".

  • @PavelKrupets
    @PavelKrupets 18 днів тому +1

    landed with tail wind on large runway (KBFI) as a student a lot. airport won’t allow landing in the other direction as sister airport dictates landing direction (KSEA).

  • @Spartan536
    @Spartan536 8 днів тому +1

    Interesting school SOP, my school allows student pilots a 5 knot max tail wind, once you get a PPL that increases to a 10 knot tailwind.
    99.9% of the time you have a headwind with a crosswind of some kind .. unless you are out at KCHN and then it's just a crapshoot as to what kind of variable wind you get.

  • @bluegizmo1983
    @bluegizmo1983 17 днів тому +1

    Good exchange from the student pilot. However, I think he could've been more clear by saying "I absolutely could handle a 4 knot tailwind landing, but legally I cannot until I'm commercial licensed"

    • @aaawac2174
      @aaawac2174 16 днів тому +1

      It's not a legal requirement, but a procedural requirement for FIT

  • @req2000
    @req2000 23 дні тому +2

    If the winds were only 4 kts, the Tower could just call the winds variable at 4 while remaining on their active runway.
    Kudos to the pilot who adhered to his school's rules, no matter how over the top conservative they are. Just 4 kts?

    • @BlackOpSource
      @BlackOpSource 23 дні тому +1

      There are criteria for when the wind can be called variable. You can't just declare that it's variable under a certain wind speed.

  • @hadorstapa
    @hadorstapa 16 днів тому +1

    Unreliable wind readings sounds like a potentially serious safety issue.

  • @WingWarnings
    @WingWarnings 23 дні тому

    Great coverage

  • @Mattribute
    @Mattribute 17 днів тому +1

    That student is a GREAT pilot.

  • @JayNJayeTv
    @JayNJayeTv 17 днів тому +1

    There’s something surreal about the pilots and atc all signing off like they’re hopping off discord at 1am…

  • @gerrywawra
    @gerrywawra 18 днів тому +1

    This is great banter love it

  • @evan56789
    @evan56789 21 день тому +1

    Typical MLB tower. Been there plenty and they're immediately dismissive and rude towards the training aircraft from the area.

  • @RomNYC
    @RomNYC 23 дні тому +1

    Sounds like a bunch of buddies having a nice little poker game going on! 😂

  • @mzaite
    @mzaite 20 днів тому +1

    As soon as dude started bitching about equipment I knew it was a Contract Tower.

  • @gulfflier4700
    @gulfflier4700 3 дні тому

    Twr controller and Student Pilot interaction is a shining example of those that are controllers Vs those that are pilots.

  • @mendel5106
    @mendel5106 23 дні тому +2

    Now I want to fly the rest of my life with this alert pilot that has his SOP's down pat!

  • @adogonasidecar1262
    @adogonasidecar1262 23 дні тому +3

    The title of the video appears excessive. He was surprised but did not hear him GO MAD. Altogether appears fine and professional.

  • @Cherry8807
    @Cherry8807 23 дні тому +1

    Now that I'm hearing this, I'm glad I never went to Melbourne when I did my training at 'Red Tale' lol. But doing my flight training in New Smyrna Beach was awesome! Best time of my life :D Wish I could go back there.

  • @DataRew
    @DataRew 22 дні тому +1

    There are a lot of comments about how well the student handled this, and he did, but this ATC really needs to be talked to about this behavior, especially to students (and this guy was well prepared too!). This demonstrates a worrying disregard for following rules that were established for a reason, when we have had the accident rates we've had in aviation over the past few years.

  • @Freeze-O
    @Freeze-O 11 днів тому

    I’ve never heard a collective group of people get more riled up and pissy about having to do their jobs more than air traffic controllers.

  • @svoffcay9231
    @svoffcay9231 23 дні тому +1

    The controller recovered but it’s one of those “ are you down there because I’m up here or am I up here because you’re down there?” “Don’t tell me how to fly the plane I’m not asking.”

  • @raidvan
    @raidvan 21 день тому +1

    I opened this thinking San Carlos was at it again

  • @navajojohn9448
    @navajojohn9448 23 дні тому +3

    I wonder what or how many accidents caused that rule.

  • @airplanedriver2
    @airplanedriver2 20 днів тому +1

    Thats definitely a part 141 student pilot, he’s definitely no part 61 cowboy

  • @SuperJohn626
    @SuperJohn626 23 дні тому +2

    At the end they are all drinking coffee and wathing this video.

  • @coreymackxs
    @coreymackxs 23 дні тому +27

    What kind of dumb rule is that? 4 knots on a 10,000 foot runway? I can see if the runway is like 2-3000 feet, but cmon.

    • @pjotrtje0NL
      @pjotrtje0NL 23 дні тому +11

      Because not all runways they use are 10K feet…

    • @nestlesucks
      @nestlesucks 23 дні тому +1

      @@pjotrtje0NL9R is 10,000 ft

    • @coreymackxs
      @coreymackxs 23 дні тому +5

      @@pjotrtje0NL Ok, so make it a rule that runways less than 5000 feet, no tailwind. Just causes problems otherwise.

    • @flutetubamorg
      @flutetubamorg 23 дні тому +20

      meh, simple rules are easy to remember. Add a bunch of qualifiers and the rule gets a little difficult to recall in the air. "Thou shalt not land with a tailwind" is easy.

    • @SchillerDuval
      @SchillerDuval 23 дні тому +4

      Welcome to the sue-happy United States. This rule was most definitely put in place because of fear of litigation. That’s the way it is now.

  • @jasonmcmillan6598
    @jasonmcmillan6598 17 днів тому +1

    I’ll ask the question no one else is. Why does the tower have the approach set up with a default tailwind.
    His policy states that he should have runway set up for a primary headwind when practical

  • @sinjinkincaid
    @sinjinkincaid 23 дні тому +2

    Went to this airport a few weeks ago, controller definitely isn’t the nicest but this wasn’t too bad of an interaction

  • @patrickpowell2236
    @patrickpowell2236 13 днів тому

    2013-ish FAA changed the rules. Controllers may not assign a runway to an arrival within 10nm of the airport that is opposite direction to a current operation on that or a parallel runway. The interpretation evolved that ATC could only assign the runway once ATIS is changed and THEN allow the arrival to proceed closer than 10nm. But since tower only controls 4.2nm circle around the airport, "hold west..." is a gift because it allows the pilot to proceed closer than 10nm without outright assigning the pilot to enter downwind and then circle, which is not allowed. Not the controller's job to know who can and who can't accept a tailwind, either. Both sides of the mic handled this well. ATC stunned that someone can't take a 4kt tailwind on a 10,000 ft runway makes sense, too
    Background: Why is the FAA acting like an Airbus callout at 20feet up during the landing flare? Because someone pointed a plane right in Air Force One's face opposite direction to A1's takeoff runway, but the coordination was incomplete and sloppy. Thus, one control mishap and the whole FAA changes to make all pilots and controllers suffer. FAA uses a wrecking ball to nail in a tack to hang a picture on the wall, and knocks down the building in the process.
    A is Air Force in ATC flight data. Simple. A1 = Air Force One (previously). It's now AF1, because A for Air Force just isn't plain enough.

  • @markweston5653
    @markweston5653 5 днів тому

    I instructed for FIT. This controller has always been this way. He's had several heated phone and radio conversations through the years

  • @johnthaxton6278
    @johnthaxton6278 23 дні тому +2

    4 knots…he was probably mad at himself for not calling it calm. 3 or less I think.

  • @bitsofgeek
    @bitsofgeek 23 дні тому +1

    I expect these folks have all interacted with the controllers at MLB and the 'no tailwind allowed' was just something the controller hadn't heard about before. Doesn't seem like any hard feelings, and everyone communicated effectively and got themselves on the ground safely. Good marks all round!

  • @jaymigs4945
    @jaymigs4945 19 днів тому +1

    I have been flying out of MLB for 31 years. I have flown into 95 airports in Florida so I think I can say I have a good data base to compare to. I can personally attest that for some reason MLB hires the snarkiest, most short tempered, most unprofessional and sarcastic controllers in the state. Most of the operations are here are training flights. "FIT XXX" are all Florida Institute of Technology students. It is primarily a training field. the new Melbourne Flight Training also has about 30 planes and has added to the training flights in recent years. The controllers know this, and instead of having more patience with student pilots that have little experience and maybe less self confidence than us old guys, they instead berate and belittle them with sarcasm. Totally rude and unprofessional at best and at worse unsafe. Rile a student badly enough and he is going to screw up and kill himself and or someone else. This particular controller is OK....IF you don't make a mistake or question him. He's relatively new. When he first started he was more polite and professional, but he has drank from the ass@#%* Coolaid and joined the MLB ATC Pilot Haters Club. I spoke to the tower manager about his controllers during the open house for the new tower and when I said his controllers were rude and unprofessional, especially to students he said "I know, we're working on it". That was 5 years ago. 'Nuf said. To be fair they aren't all terrible. There is one controller here that is a Gem who I have personally met and he is as pleasant in person as he is on the radio, but I haven't heard his voice in quite a while so maybe he retired. Maybe this controller needs to find another airport to work at if he doesn't like dealing with students, especially ones that follow the rules.

  • @NE-Explorer
    @NE-Explorer 23 дні тому +1

    The student did very well. Besides demonstrating that he can follow rules, if there had been any kind of mishap, even very minor, somebody would have added to the report about taking the tailwind

  • @14thCenturyHare
    @14thCenturyHare 20 днів тому +1

    This guy was mad, anyone saying otherwise is just letting the end result get to them.