The First Trapdoor Springfield Carbine, Model 1870
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- / forgottenweapons
www.floatplane...
Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.bbtv.com/c...
The first production of a carbine model of the Trapdoor Springfield was the Model 1870 (excluding 4 prototypes produced in 1868). There was a focus infantry rifles in theTrapdoor program, and just 362 of these carbines were made in 1870. They use the short receiver of the 1870 rifle, a 21 3/4” barrel, a slinger and ring on these in place of sling swivels, and are not serialized. They also use a unique narrow rear sight slider, for no apparent reason.
The 1870 pattern was the last of the .50-70 Trapdoors, to be supplanted in 1873 by the new .45-70 cartridge. The two main improvements of the type were the shorter receiver (the use of sleeved barrels previously made a longer receiver necessary) and an increase in the opening arc of the breech block (to make it less likely to fall shut inadvertently).
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle 36270
Tucson, AZ 85740
The brass inlay on the front sight WOULD have been called a night sight, however, night had not yet been invented.
You should be on the stage, the next one out of town. Thanks for giving the opportunity to use that outdated joke.
@@rogertrozelle8159 Tough crowd.
This didn't just result in a massive jump in fire rate, the fire rate also stayed high as fouling wasn't as bad AND you could effectively load and shoot from prone. A platoon with trapdoor rifles could match the capability of a company of soldiers with rifled muskets.
5:00 am, time for forgotten weapons!
945 am for me
8:48 pm!
2:52 am for me, woke up to take a piss and got this
@@anthonymcauliffe9000 where are you, Australia? NZ?
@@uttcftptid4481 Oz man
This made me question what time it was.
What time was it? 2:10 am my time when you made your comment.
A rare bird indeed, and yes, General Sherman was right, the Remington rolling block was the superior weapon.
I wonder if Ian accidentally said Remington but meant Sharps, as the Sharps carbine was what replaced the Spencer for the cavalry service from 1870 to 1873.
@@ElCrab wait they replaced the Spencer carbine for a breach loader? Why
@@lambsauce5312: because a breech loading centerfire Springfield rifle is superior to a rimfire Spencer in every way.
@@ElCrab I don't know if I'd say that
@@Pocky311: maybe you wouldn’t but I will. All day. Superior range, superior accuracy, superior stopping power, less prone to mechanical failure when using the properly jacketed cartridge in brass, not copper (as the Army did from 1877 to 1892. The Spencer was only very slightly faster to fire, but this advantage of repeaters is always overblown. The Springfield was able to deliver steady downrange fire, a shot every 4-5 seconds if need be. A Spencer or any other repeater, if the magazine tube is exhausted, must be reloaded in total (which means zero firing for awhile) or reloaded one round at a time and expending that round before loading another. With the Spencer, that means accessing the tube in the buttplate. Not convenient to do, especially when prone. Same for chambering using the lever while prone. The Springfield can be held exactly on target and a new round loaded without any difficult while prone, given the extractor and the breech access being through the top.
I finally thought I was about to sleep. Then I get the notification for this and now I gotta watch
same
@@LeKerbal at least we get to vibe with the early uploads
Where are you guys? This was posted at 2am where I'm at
@@uttcftptid4481 5am for me I'm in the Carolinas
@@uttcftptid4481 I'm guessing you're western US
Love that sight picture with the brass inlay
This rifle is just gorgeous
What a pleasant surprise for a Wednesday evening
Where are you? It's 05:08 in the morning
@@calvinplumley4394 I think it was sarcasm
2 AM here. Is Ian uploading from Finland? 🤔
10 am In Denmark
@@bigby1530 well, must be wednesday evening somewhere on the globe.
Can you explain why Black Powder weapons are not legally classified as true firearms? I'd love an in depth video.
Because law makers are dumb
@@adrikboyd9942 hopefully they don't decide to change it tho
It needs to use cartridges to be considered a firearm. That's more or less it. New manufacturered black powder cartridge guns are considered guns under the law
black powder muzzleloaders are not legally classified as true firearms because it's just a pipe and then all pipes would be guns
@@erikbergstrom258 Well yeah that's true. Give me 30 minutes and I could make a shotgun out of two pipes and scrap.
Someone need to do a comparison between springfield and snider enfield as both are breech-loading musket conversion rifle.
Seeing a lot of seriously rare older guns lately. enjoying the heck out of it. Don't get me wrong, I like the obscure modern stuff too it's just the older stuff can be so convoluted and overthought.
Making something simple and elegant is very difficult and generally needs a paradigm-shifting innovation. The first prototype, especially a conversion, has to deal with a lot of problems with no silver-bullet fix.
Plus there is selection-bias. If something works great it explodes in popularity while the impractical and expensive experiments fall into obscurity.
@@Nerdnumberone Yes. Typically the first iteration is indeed more complicated because the inventor has a bright idea nobody else has had but can only think of one way to implement it. It takes still more bright people (or time to reflect by the same bright person) to see ways to simplify. As we saw with the string of Austrian pistols Ian recently did a series on, it's far easier to copy than to innovate or simplify.
I actually just picked up an 1870 rifle in .50-70. Has an 1863 stampe lock plate.
I suspect the narrower width of the rear sight tabs was to reduce the likelihood that they would be accidently moved by accident. (riding on a horse while carrying via sling)
John Marston got one of these
Yes he does.
Thanks, great video..
Any thoughts on doing a video on the cartridges and/or packaging?...
A Trapdoor Springfield carbine in 50-70 available for auction?
Hickok45 breathing heavily...
Hello what’s your bid
And just like that, reloading time went from minutes to seconds
Or, at least, Many Seconds to Few Seconds.
Because 3rd/min is pretty achievable with a Minie--style rifle musket with a percussion lock, for a trained and practiced soldier. Heck, there are hobbyists who do it without much strain (I'm not one of them, full disclosure).
@@kenbrown2808 I always thought that it was because the colonial militia was very fast reaction force, that they was ready in very short time, hence the name minuteman.
@@kenbrown2808 Well my day just started, but thanks anyway.
I can make two rounds per minute with a Hawken rifle, which is obviously slower than a Minié-type rifle, and I'm not even any good.
This seems earlier than usual.
On a different note, has Ian ever mentioned or wanted to do anything with the World of Guns gun disassembly game?
Its about two hours early. Normally i catch this just as its uploaded while on my lunch break.
@@high633 your lunch break is at 6am
@@17njl01 im night shift so its at 3am my time(1 hour 44 min from now).
@@high633 So you have lunch exactly at noon. Atleast from my point of view...
Where are my fellow destroyermen?
.50 caliber? Those were real men and women who used them back in the day. Yeah, the velocity is nowhere the same as those today, but man, a .50 cal 450 grain slug is a heckuva big chunk of lead to hit something with.
Black powder had a pretty hard limit as to how fast it could throw a bullet, so the only way to increase stopping power was to shoot a bigger projectile. 0.50 caliber was pretty average for the time when talking about military longarms.
Love the trapdoor carbine! Greetings from France 🇨🇵
Do you have a lot of trapdoors in France? I was just reading an article about the M1866 trapdoors that were sold to France in the 1870 timeframe. Have those survived to the extent that you have trapdoor collectors there or pieces sold in antique stores?
I just inherited one of these in great condition. If anybody wants to buy it or trade me a few guns for it comment your email.
Below
Man think about how bloody the Civil War would have been if it had waited a few more years.
You probably would have seen a rethink about tactics. Really fast
Thoroughly enjoyed learning about the nuanced differences between patterns
Sleeved down to .50 caliber, i like the sound of that.
It excited me hearing about the contention between the remington rolling block and springfield trapdoor, and that Sherman preferred the rolling block. Would love to know more about how they stack up against each other and the politics/contest between securing gov contracts
the remington was by far the biggest selling rifle of its day.seemed to break down like this europe and the states wanted to use a cheaper home made weapon such as the springfield or martini henry yet remingtons sold by the thousands to colonial troops emerging nations etc.it seemed to be by far the most preferred and reliable weapon on the market bought by anyone needing weapons in a hurry whilst their own were being developed.as to reliability it was reported during the sudan campaign of 1884 that the dervish army armed with remingtons captured from the egyptians didnt seem to suffer the jamming problems and fouling issues martinis did.this was in part to the army being issued old style rolled brass cartridges from the reserve which split in the breech leaving the weapon useless.the .45 springfield i know from the bighorn had similar problems.i wonder if sherman thought the ejection system on the rolling block better.it does seem however that anyone in those days who had a choice unrestricted by national pride or governments seeking to reuse old weapons or other political considerations chose the remington.in fact so many rebel type armies had it it might be considered the ak47 of its day ! turned up all over the world.
@@mikekemp9877 Haha, calling it the AK of its day certainly seems accurate, I know the rolling block popped up all over South America. Thanks for an informative and detailed reply!
Several folk (including me) have done videos comparing them. I personally find the Trapdoor just a hair faster to reload than the RB, but the Sharps .50-70 carbine and the English Martini Henry (.577-450_ are even faster to reload. That said RB sold or licensed for manufacture their guns wherever they could (even the Vatican bought them) while Congress had forbidden Springfield to directly arm France for their war with Germany and after that completed .45-70 Trapdoors stayed in inventory and only parts went to Bannerman.
There's also the price difference between a conversion and a new build.
Before WW2, the US Army was very poorly funded, so stretching the dollar as far as possible was the order of the day. Which was another advantage for the trapdoor.
I very much doubt if the Martini-Henry was cheaper than a Remington Rolling Block.
Were you thinking of the Snider-Enfield Enfield, which was a breech-loading conversion, contemporary to the Trapdoor Springfield?
This got me wondering what the oldest style of gun that would still be truly effective in-field today would be.
Yellow Boy or Spencer, if you could find Spencer ammo. :)
Ian, You did a video on a shortened trapdoor I watched a few days ago. A 24" barrel, full stocked with a rod bayonet. I have a similar example, but without a rod bayonet. I cannot find any record of this model / design of a 45-70 trapdoor having ever existed, but it looks like I have one. I cannot find the video your video again either. Could you share all information you know about this trapdoor?
interesting as always! I have been interested in cowboy/western shooting for years but never had the time to really get into it. Now that im getting a bit closer to retirement i have been actually ,trying to aquire the firearms needed for the different competitions for this style of shooting? lol its been fun so far but all i have are a couple of lever guns. I need a sideXside shotgun, a revolver and i want to get into the long range, with trap door rifles, quite a bit! lolOne of my lever guns is in 45/70 but its just not the same as the old trap door! hehe But when looking at working relica guns for those comps is quite costly! :>/
Love it. Wish the carbine version was more common. Mine is a full length 66 and of course the rear sight is not nearly as fancy. :) Noting the pristine condition of the wood and the inspector's marks kind of suggests this gun was never used afield or spent any time bouncing around on a sling while someone rode horseback with it. Call it almost NIB.
Did the US army use this gun in the battle against the sioux? I don't know the exact location but I know they were outnumbered and the native Indians had superior firepower.
Good morning from Germany
I have an 1873 rifle made in 1879. They're very fun rifles.
My family’s got an original, carbine-made from 1873 sitting in on of their closets, I hope to someday fire it once I get proper cartridges
Not sure why, but I see motion blur that obscures details such as the stock woodgrain. Is this a framerate issue?
It's not a framerate issue, but there is motion blur happening. You get a good clear view when the camera is stationary and focused right on the spot of interest.
When the camera is moving those frames will have motion blur. The only way to fix this is to throw tonnes more light onto the set (4-8x more light would be great) so that the camera can shoot crisper, non-blurry frames. Shooting at 60fps or 120fps would also help because faster frames are crisper frames, but they'd still need the extra light and that has the expense of buying a new camera.
Nice
I just picked up a Model 1868 Rifle Side Plate is dated 1863 Breech is dated at 1869
Great rifle for the story mode but unfortunatly so nerfed in online mode it became useless.
I have never hated a comment so much while loving it
@@bigby1530 Thank you
@@duneydan7993 thank you
@@bigby1530 how was the meme?
"I've never been so offended by something I so 100% agree with."
XD
@@gonnegottkehaskamp1667 didn't feel like repeating the same line
.58 cal. Jeepers Creepers what where they shooting lead paintballs
Those musket conversions are so cool.
Love these videos - so cool to see rare, old guns I'd never get a chance to see without the divine intervention of Gun Jesus ... blessed be his name.
recently managed to find a Springfield Trapdoor rifle for $650 and i've been loving it so far, I've even been looking into how to reload black powder ammo for it
Its short but good informations thx
Neat weapons. Would be interesting to see a match with that era of weapons used. As always, great work FW.
Read Dead Engineering 2
one of my favourite rifles on Red dead 2 .
Newbies best friend of "Hunt: showdown" lol
Always loved US Procurement!
1.) Someone says let's save a fortune by converting the million or so Springfield 1861s we already paid for to be breechloaders, because it would save a fortune because won't need all new guns, especially barrels, and half of Europe has already got their own successful conversions going, so obviously a good move that keeps us competitive! +2 Points to the Procurement Process!
2.) Hmmmm, let's not go with the convention set by Europe and decline to use a center-fire ammunition! Bring on the rimfire! Okay, no points for or against Procurement for this one (edited)
3.) Hmmm...okay, let's go with the centerfire ammunition, but let us not make it in the original .58'' caliber, so we need to spend a small fortune to sleeve the barrels because that is better, right? -1 point to Procurement for moving one step forward with the centerfire, two steps back for adding a fortune to the costs for barrel modification and that modification being a natural weak point.
4.) Hey, how about we just make the guns from scratch now? All those 1861s we ain't converted yet? Maybe we will convert some more, but let's surplus most of them now eventhough muzzleloaders are losing favor in the civilian market with all the nice cartridge guns starting to come out. Just slash the price even more! -3 Points for giving up on the whole point of a conversion, costing Uncle Sam a fortune as all new guns start rolling off the line, and losing even more money on the surplus 1861s than might have been if they had dumped them earlier.
5.) Hey hey hey! I know it had only been a few years, not even ten, but what if we now go for a new ammunition in .45''? -1 Point for invalidating all the prior conversions and new-made guns already paid for.
Point total: *multiple face palms*
This is mostly in jest, as there was some logic, however modest, behind most of these decisions, but one does feel like some people in Procurement lost sight of the objective of saving money pretty early there, didn't they?
And now the same decisions are being made about F35.
Look at the original bid request. All of the changes. Mission creep.
Now the government has put out a request for a replacement.
Much the same as the original request.
Point 3, fallacious. Sleeving was cheaper when you consider the ammo costs come out of the same budget and millions of rounds need to be manufactured. Also we are talking about converting used guns that had been fired with corrosive primers. The barrels were probably used up anyway and the option cost factor was a brand new barrel, or just sleeve the old one.
Point 4, surplus then wasn;t like surplus today. There was no GSA to act as middleman and keep the money. Sales contracts were made by the General commanding and as long as the chain of command was as it was, oversight of contracts was pretty minimal. Officers salaries were pretty low even by the standards of the 19th century, but those commanding generals had gorgeous estates. Back-room deals were pretty common in those days. The Armory itself sold most of the rifles. Noting also Alin as the designer of the trapdoor got a cash royalty on each gun Springfield made. When he got promoted to be the manager of Springfield Armory you better believe he made durn sure that was the design they used for as long as he could say anything about it. The Army sold the .50-70 guns to both reservation Indians and Buffalo hunters as well as to arms merchants like Bannerman. The .45-70 1873 was an improvement, but the old .50-70 guns were/are ridiculously heavy and oversize, especially if you were marching with one of the full size rifle versions. So a new thinner gun was appreciated and appropriate to a smaller caliber. Mr. Alin didn't care, he got royalties on the 1873 version too. Meanwhile Mr. Bannerman was willing to buy whatever they could sell. The guns were a cash cow. The tax payer bought the materials, and even though the US Army only had 12,000 men every few months a design modification was made (sights, ramrod, butt plate, sling swivel changes, etc.) and every year the old ones were rotated in and replaced with the newer model and the old ones were sold off as parts to Bannerman and his friends. For an Army of only 12,000 men (until the War with Spain) Springfield Armory made and sold over 107,000 50-70 Trapdoor rifles and before the bolt action arrived over 540,000 .45-70 Trapdoor rifles. Mr. Bannerman was very happy, the Commanding General of Ordnance was happy, and Mr. Alin was happy. It was a good system. A shame Mr. Mauser had to spoil it.
@@kenibnanak5554 I did say there was some logic to the decisions, just didn't emphasize that much of that logic was .
Still, the main point was the the Trapdoor was supposed to be for the USA what the Snider was for the British: a very cheap and quick way using as much of their existing weapons as possible to quickly rearm the military to fight a possible peer opponent while developing a superior breechloading system for the long-term. As it was, in the five years it took to introduce the Martini-Henry, the net costs of the Snider, even with its chunky bullets, proved to be trivial compared to the risks of being caught with only Pattern 1853 muzzleloaders in a world filling with breechloaders.
Bear in mind, for the USA, France was in Mexico and it had a standing and professional army around 400,000 strong slowing acquiring their own breechloaders. Uncle Sam may not have wanted to keep a standing army greater than 20,000 if he could help it, but he definitely needed to be ready to raise six-figure armies in an emergency, and the Trapdoor conversion system seemed to be the perfect solution to do that. Then it stopped being the perfect solution as I outlined before.
Reminds me of the Snider Enfield conversion rifles from 1867, had the pleasure of firing one at Fort Henry in Canada
Well yes, it's the same basic concept. There were a whole bunch of other 'trapdoor' designs, including the Snider, that various nations developed to bridge the gap between muzzle-loading rifled muskets and purpose-built single shot metallic cartridge rifles. The difference with the US was that they kept and refined the trapdoor design until they adopted a magazine-fed smokeless cartridge rifle.
Why would they make a run of rifles and not serialize them?
There weren't many numbers to go around back then. A lot of them had to be imported, and only a handful would have been created at the armory itself.
Why would they bother? The earlier Trapdoors weren't serialized either. Serial numbers are either a sales gimmick or a legal requirement. The US Army made their own guns after the Civil War and the need for them to be individually numbered wasprobably viewed as just another needless manufacturing expense.
beautiful
Would like to see the single point sling and how it was used.
Why is the only closed caption option Korean?
Korean subtitles? Perfect.
Why wasn’t a trapdoor pistol developed?
One was, actually, in very limited quantities.
Bass pro museum has one
Oh, neat
Ian didn't mention all the Sharps Carbine converted to centerfire and the Spencers still in service. Not really a need to trapdoors...m
True in 1866, but by 1873 the Spencer ammo was getting scarce, .50-70 had been retired in favor of the less expensive (less brass, less lead, so less weight too) .45-70 round. The knowledge the caliber and gun change was coming is probably why they didn't turn out lots of carbines in 1870.
@@kenibnanak5554: the Spencer was replaced by .50-70 Sharps well before 1873. The .45-70 Springfield then replaced the Sharps, starting in 1873. The Seventh Cavalry received their Springfields in 1874, in time for the Black Hills expedition.
I’ve been playing a lot of hunt showdown lately too 😎
Lol same
What if we put that mechanism on a musket pistol?
Nice examples of both models.
I have heard it said oft as anyone else that the Colt 1873 revolver (not to mention a myriad of lever guns) is the gun that won the west. Any real student of American history knows that title truly belongs to the Trapdoor Springfield rifle/carbine chambered in 50/70 Government. That gun so chambered is what was used to do the bulk of the fighting against the Plains Indians, and is what burned the most powder during the destruction of the buffalo herds.
And it is kind of a toss up as to whether the spur trigger rimfire guns or the European Bulldogs were the pistol that won the West. Hollywood aside they were way more affordable and common than the 1873 Colts.
You’ll probably find Cholera & smallpox won the west
Very cool.
I have an 1870 rifle and love it
Gorgeous example.
Really good one Boss🤘 Love all your history lessons.
Fascinating firearms, always wanted to shoot one
I just bought an 1884 model and its so fun to shoot. Definitely get one if you ever have the chance!
Thank you , Ian .
Because of all that is written on The Battle of Little Big Horn. ... I would like to see you do a review of the 45/70 Carbine... including the copper cases . Many writers of the subject are not good with Firearm facts . Covering the weapons used might be a popular subject. Thanks for your video.
Did not George have these at the Little Big Horn? I read, probably in a real west magazine from the 60's , that there was evidence some of the men were thought to have died while trying to extract a spent cartridge with a pocket knife or a stick because the ejectors were weak , more problems involved.?
The ejectors were fine, the problem was that early cartridge cases were copper, and if they became stuck in the chamber the extractor could tear through the case rim. When they changed to brass, the problem went away.
From what I have read and the evidence found at the battlefield, it happened but not at the rate it's been reported. More of a numbers issue and lack of cover. Reno and Benteen's soldiers held off the same force with the same guns but with a better defensive position.
I think that the Hi-Tec/Goncz pistol is a truly forgotten weapon..you have should review that Ian?
I owned a great looking reproduction of one of these, in the late 60's, by the looks and what I know now I would guess, Uberti, but I cannot remember, there was no ring or sling mounts. My Grand Dad, who had a sporting goods store In Sutherlin Oregon from 50 to the early 70's had an original on the wall, A long barreled musket conversion to 50-70 , and a Half box of shells, all were centerfire primer shells but there was one fired, copper shell ,that looked like a rim fire but the firing pin mark was in the center.
I read this way back in the mists of time always wondered if it was correct, that the powder charge for the carbines was reduced from 70 grains to 55 grains true or false ?
Yes, it was. Infantry load was 45-70-405 paired with the cavalry load of 45-55-405. When the move was made to 45-70-500 (500gr bullet vs 405), the cavalry stayed with their old load. A full power load through the carbine will help you develop a healthy flinch, it’s quite evil.
@@danceswithbadgers534 thank you my friend
True. It had little to do with recoil (as gun magazine myth claims). For both the US and England it was about the full load of black powder not being consumed in the shorter barrel so that maybe 10 or more grains would just fall on the ground unburnt in front of the shooter. Why waste powder when you have a budget? The performance difference for the kind of fighting troops with carbines did was minimal and at the same time you could still use the rifle ammo in the carbine, or even the carbine ammo in the rifle if you absolutely had to.
Hi, Ian. Another rarity. I would probably not enjoy shooting a 50 cal carbine. Thanks for sharing! Stay healthy!
@@mathy4605 Ouch! No thanks. A Sharps 50 is bad enough, and a carbine would be worse.
@@jonminer9891 LoL, I enjoy shooting my Sharps 50-70 carbine. Decent woods gun for deer (esp with hollow point SWC type bullets).
They should have gone with the Remington RB. The second best single shot BP rifle, after the Martini - Henry
Odd upload time?
Really liking the zipper hoodie you've been rockin' in the past several videos.
👍👍👍
Nobody ever listens to General Sherman
WHATS IT WORTH?
Thank you for the post! Very interesting, as always.
Thank you
nice sites
Hey Ian
Looks like a hunting rifle.
Hunting rifles are descended from military rifles.
Nice!
Ian you gotta have a Varusteleka collab for your merch as well!
Cool
Excuse me Ian, is it carbean or carbINE...? 😆
Hello all, this guy just keeps producing some of the best content. Thanks, Ian.
Last time I was this early, Custer was still alive.
Ahhh Springfield Armory, a company that has been arming Americans for hundreds of years still till this day. I love my 10mm XDM OSP handgun and my AR Saint Victor pistol in .300blk, they’re great guns and I recommend them highly.
There's absolutely no relation at all between the Springfield that produced your guns and the one that made that trapdoor.
I wish there was a modern reproduction of this rifle/carbine in a more cost-effective (non-ammo shortage, of course) caliber such as .30-30.
Can't. The Trapdoor design is too weak for .30-30 pressures.
I shot one of these yesterday. Very cool and very interesting
I would have thought that they would be more interested in carbine breachloaders because those were meant more for cavalry, which can't easily muzzleload. Then again, this is talking about trapdoor *conversions*, so they may have figured that they could afford to replace the cavalry's weapons entirely, but replacing the main infantry rifle would be cost-prohibitive while gradually converting them would be more practical.
Also they already had 33,000 .50-70 Sharps conversion carbines, and another 40,000 or so leftover Spencer carbines for a total US Army of only 12,000 (includes cavalry, infantry and artillery) due to post Civil War downsizing. So a great need for more carbines of trapdoor type wasn't felt until the Army decided to retire and sell off all of the old Civil War guns in favor of the new .45-70 guns which were thinner and lighter than the old .50-70 guns.
You post at 3am your time? Get some sleep gun Jesus!
cant wait for more swiss weapons on forgotten weapons
2 dislikes in less then an hour lol good morning my ninjas
Neat. .50-70 is a cool old caliber.
0:38 Why were the hammers made in that 'S' shape? Surely the same function would be provided by a simpler style.
Left over percussion rifle hammers.
So THIS is the one in Red Dead 2...
Never to early for forgotten weapons.