why has it taken this long for this engine to get attention?? its been around since 2009..... the same goes for the 2zz, apparently the torqueless high power band, all of a sudden (3 years ago) is now a better designed engine than the 3SGE beams dual vvt-i engine...???
I have not, in fact the motors i have used have stayed very clean. The problem seems to be related to carboning up with excessive low load usage and that's simply not a condition that the motors i use are exposed to.
I'm absolutely interested in this! I see a lot of these parts may be the same as some of the 2zr-fe components. If you knew anything about those engines, I'd love to know! I'm a budget build kinda guy, so your content has interested me. Also! I do not see much toyota stuff going on. Us Corolla guys need mod help too lol Thanks a bunch dude!
The S54 is behind the car in the trailer so i wasn't able to get to it. But i will test this and give the info out as soon as i can. Sorry about the delay
S54 uses the same bolts that he showed on the e153. I currently have one bolted up. I opened up one hole for a 12mm bolt on the s54 and tapped one hole in the 2ar block. Then I did get 1 maybe 2 smaller bolts on the bottom as well.
Toyota very conservatively made 4 million of these, that's probably shy by a couple million. They are all over many pick-n-pull yards, i just checked a pick-n-pull pricelist in texas and it shows $206.99 for a complete engine and a $49.99 core charge so $275 with tax. These pick-n-pull style yards where they have a fixed price for an engine are way better deals and they have nice engine cranes to help you pull the engine out quite easily.
Jeff, the summary it gave me when it notified me of this stopped at the "m" in more, i thought you were trying to say motec and i was expecting to have to explain that not everyone has a massive budget to work with. But this is quite the opposite question. The primary reason is the drive by wire. The 1500 is the cheapest model that supports the DBW system. You could certainly convert to a drive by cable and probably do it for less than the $700 difference in ECU pricing but then there's also the Dual VVT-I and that isn't supported until the Elite 1000. The difference in price between the 1000 and the 1500 is $190 and if you look at the feature chart you gain a whole lot more than just DBW when going from the 1000 to the 1500, you also gain a nicer long term learning feature set, an ignition table that can depend on three variables instead of two, three level engine protection (this is really only a gain for the endurance racing i do, for street driving the single level is just fine). it also picks up all the race functions like the advanced boost control and the advanced flat shift support except. the only thing it is missing is the fancy torque management. It also picks up two extra outputs to make it so the DBW system does not consume additional outputs.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks I see. Thank you for the thorough explanation. Having never used a haltech ( or any custom ecu) myself, I was a bit confused as to what the difference would be in regards to this application. Having seen all of your 2ar videos, I knew you would have a good reason for choosing the more expensive device.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks theres even a nice spot on the firewall and the wire grommets from a 2ZZ toyota are perfect for the location along with some tesa tape
I'm a year late, but I am interested in putting one of these in my 2nd gen for street use. Would probably want to do some top end work to make it rev higher though. Ideally I'd want it to have that same spirit of the beams engine. What's the highest you've gotten these to rev?
I have rev'd it to 8600RPM on the dyno but i have only raced it to 7600RPM. I will likely bump up the redline to 7800 for the next race, trying to sneak up on it
Do you by chance have any comparison pics of the AR next to the S-series that came out of Evey? I'm still trying to figure out how I'll shoehorn one of these into an SV25. It looks like I may have to build a bulge into the hood to clear this tall son of a gun.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks Jeez I wish UA-cam notified me of responses! I've been doing some eyeballing and it looks like the MR2 engine-side mount is largely identical to the mount in the same position as my rig (an 88 Camry All-Trac) so I reckon I should put it in writing I am very interested in seeing a production engine mount for an AR into an SW20. If it isn't perfect, it'll be pretty dang close to what I need.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks I will happily shell out the cost of the mount to confirm if they go to production. Alternatively, after you have this engine mounted in Evey I can cover the cost of shipping for you to send me the original 5S mount so I can compare it to the one I have; if it is compatible, it will be a safe bet that the MR2 2AR mount will work for what I am doing.
I’m still blown away by what you did with the 2ARFXE build and taking in the “streetable” possibilities. It also makes me curious if something similar is possible with the 1NZFXE 🤔
NixSpeed is currently building an AW11 and they confirmed the S54 has the same thing going on as the E153, the '91 and '92 bolts up but it's a bit light on bolt positions, the '93+ has more than enough bolt locations.
doesnt the e351/e350 transmssion fit this engine as well? i know the eb60/62 fits the 2azfe, and that came on the 2arfe. I guess its another option? The e351 has the same 1-5th gear ratios as the eb62 if im not mistaken. I know its also more common then the 6 speed too. I just wanted to make sure because my brother and I bought an e351 for a 08 camry, 2grfe manual transmission swap and I know the e153 fits that engine too.
Also what clutch would you recommend that isn't terribly expensive? I don't want to run the stock clutch because the 2grfe has double the hp of the 2azfe stock engine. lol.
Yes, the E351 does bolt to the engine. Unfortunately it is know for having a differential which will not put up to drag racing abuse. But for a non drag racing car it is a great trans.
I generally use the TC8-HDG6 clutch and i've been very happy with it. It is a 6 puck ceramic design that some people do not like on the street though. Though that works with the EB60 trans, you will need the TC1-HDG6 for the E351
That's refreshing to hear someone try to point out a turbo that isn't state of the art .... for 1991. I 100% agree that this screams "turbo build" and i'd like to get to that in time but first i need to get the NA stuff done first because all the NA stuff will help make the turbo build way more efficient.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks I don't get the insistence on using old turbos. Maybe people just don't do their own research and feel safe sticking with what they know. My current SW20 is getting a 2GR that I plan to keep NA (at least initially, the Harrop Supercharger is very tempting). If I had stupid amounts of money I would definitely by another just to do a turbo 2AR though. Anyway, glad to see someone finally getting around to mass producing performance parts for this awesome engine because Toyota certainly wasn't going to put it in a chassis that encouraged aftermarket support (the 86 was a wasted opportunity) smh.
No, the leaderboard will take any engine. But my goal of this project is to show what i can do with that 4 cylinder motor that has amazing availability.
the SW20 is very near and dear to me, so very excited to see how Evey unfolds. I had a 91 T-Top SW20 turbo back in 2005. If I ever get another SW20 that's Either NA or with a broken 3SGTE I will definitely put in a 2AR-FE. I've been fascinated by this engine since I read about Papadakis using it in the Hatchback that Fredrick Aasbo used to drive in Formula Drift until he got a GR Supra.
On the first go around I will just use the stock MR2 cooling setup to keep things simple but that is certainly something that could change, either for cooling capacity or for weight reduction. It might also get another major change if i ever need to go to methanol to take the record.
Great Video Marc! I am really excited to see you make this car and hopefully achieving the world record. When is your target to complete? It would be awesome for you to break the record at MR2 Nationals next year!!!
I'm not really bounding this project with a timeline but i think this will be done sometime in 2022. I hope to get the first run at the strip with this car sometime before the strip closes for the season this year but i guarantee that won't be the record run :)
A lot of balance and smart information here. Not gonna change torque on these. So glad all the parts for the spyder are back in stock. Keep the videos coming.
Right, i expect that at best i'll make 250lb*ft once i switch to a different kind of fuel. Naturally aspirated motors generally don't change their peak torque numbers unless they are making peak torque below 100% volumetric efficiency but very few modern motors hit less than 100% VE at peak torque. Those easy gains left when the 90's left us.
Yes, exactly! The V6 swaps are fast but they are too expensive to mod and there's not enough parts available so i don't expect to have issues with the V6 guys. As for the K-Swaps, that's exactly what i'm trying to prove here. The AR is a better platform and i intend on proving it out.
Awesome, The mount and the cams is something i know for sure will be available. at first i will likely just be the 250whp cams but as others get figured out i'd like to probably have 3-4 offerings on the market.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks That is actually very helpful in regards to my planning my current build. Looks like Ill be shopping for a 2AR over the next couple of months. : )
@@e5141981 that's awesome! I'd love to help you out as you go. Keep in mind too if you use a haltech from me I'll be happy to share my tunes as I keep developing them.
I don't think I mentioned it but yes, I will have an LSD unless I can find a spool for the E153. Being able to heat up the tires and get them sticky is important.
@@nickbianco2750 Yeah, they pretty much make anything like that if you just supply them some parts to measure. A spool would be a good weight savings and would not have any disadvantages for drag racing.
Look at going to a much thinner gauge Tefzel wire, you could also batch fire the injectors and go waste spark to minimize wiring and no need for a cam trigger.
I like what you're thinking! I had never heard of Tefzel wire before but i just compared it to the TXL wire i was planning on using . 22ga for example is 1.67grams per foot and Tefzel looks to be 1.62grams per foot so it isn't a huge gain over the already light TXL. Currently i don't have all the terminals for the plugs on the motor so i won't use use Tefzel for the engine harness but i really appreciate the info and I will be using it in the future. As for your waste spark/batch fire in semi sequential mode, that is a great way to save weight but that unfortunately would prevent me from running the dual vvt-i system and that would cost too much horsepower. for this particular engine. I do plan on doing things like sharing power rails for the cam sensors instead of splitting the wires at the ECU, every gram counts here.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks with your existing car in datalogging overlay cam position with a 1/4 mile run excluding the gear change window how much is the VVT actually being used? might not be worth using VVT on a drag engine where you will only be at WOT hopefully in the 4000/5000 to 7000+ RPM range?
@@allan80supra from what i can see it would really hurt the 50 to 80mph acceleration (beginning of 2nd gear) but honestly it's a bit hard to tell because i don't know exactly what shape the power curve will be. But since this car is also an R&D platform for the engine i really need to have the dual vvt-i to show off the motor's capabilities.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks yeah R&D vs race car will create some conflicts, Would suggest putting a Deutsch HDP (much easier to repin than autosport) bulkhead or two on the firewall so you can yoink the motor easy and if you find VVT is not that helpful a second simplified race motor and loom, I imagine there is significant weight in the VVT system and probably some oil pressure that could be used better elsewhere if you find VVT is not needed.
@@allan80supra I actually considered a bulkhead connector for the engine but with the ECU right on the other side of the firewall it'll be just as easy to pop a grommet and fish three connectors through (two for the ECU and one for the power supplies) and it'll be a tiny bit lighter that way. Heck, i've even ordered 10mm hollow tube for the transmission dowels. To get below 2000lbs i really will have to try every last thing. The vvt-i phasers and solenoids weigh about 4.5lbs total and putting back on fixed gears on the cams puts about 0.8lbs of that back on so it certainly is a savings. The wire harness difference is probably 25-35 grams or so. keeping the phasers there will make more power, it's just a question of if they make enough extra power to be worth the weight. it'll be pretty easy on the dyno to simulate a fixed cam position to get dyno charts with and without it to calculate that. If it makes sense I certainly will make a different version of the engine without it. Along with a different engine harness so i can switch back and forth as needed. As for oil pressure, it's honestly already mostly being bypassed. The pump has way more volume available than what it uses. I'll have to see if i can find it but there was a big deal about the oil bypass valving in this motor in the new motor guide that Toyota put out.
@@driftke70 Ahh, ok. I had read your original comment incorrectly then. I'm glad to hear this makes it better for you guys. Just a nice side benefit :)
Definitely willing to do this swap once the mounts are one the market. I'd like to figure out how to make this California smog legal on the stock engine. Ideally, I would be able to do this swap, pass the bar inspection, and then install the cam upgrades for the increased power. If I could use the 12.5 compression ratio engine and pass smog that would be better as I could run e85 after passing BAR.
Passing BAR with this engine should be pretty easy. I'll confirm the stock exhaust manifold fits when i get there but i'm pretty sure it will without any modification. You'll also have to use the stock intake also but that's easy to fit. The hardest part will be the evap system but if you put the fuel pressure regulator in the gas tank instead of the frame rail and remove a bunch of the old vacuum hoses on the tank it should be possible to make it pass.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks That's great news! The fuel system modifications you described are similar to what people have done to get the later vvti 1mz engines to pass smog. Does an unhacked stock ECU work?
@@stonehedge559 yeah, same kind of thing for the evap as the 1mz. you just need to get rid of as much of the hoses as possible to reduce the evaporative "sweating" through the hoses. The stock Scion tC ECU will work well and i can hook you up with a stock but non immobilized ECU.
@@stonehedge559 It's whatever i want it to be but i can take the immobilizer out without modifying any part of the tune so it would 100% report everything as the same
I think the fact that i'm going down this course should make it obvious which one I'm choosing but here's a few of the high level reasons: The AR motor is available in 90mm bore and 105mm stroke (2.7L) right from the factory which the exact dimensions you'll get out of a K24 after you spend thousands of dollars on custom cylinder sleeves and a stroker crank for the K. The AR's stock 90mm bore means that the valves are bigger. The stock intake of 36.5mm and 31mm exhaust is generally as big as the k can go once you spend a bunch of money upgrading the head. I know 4 pistons goes 38mm/30mm on their biggest offering which is even bigger, reaching that would take a bit of work on the 2AR but it would easily fit if you wanted it. The AR motor will happily spin 8600rpm with just a little bit of valvetrain work, i've done it in previous videos. I plan on pushing it further to see what happens if i can make power up there. Along with those larger valves the motor has huge intake and exhaust ports. which means the stock intake manifold has only shown 4kPa restriction at the 241rwhp(270hp) level. This means that the factory intake will likely flow enough for 300whp/340hp. The AR is available right from the factory in 10.4 compression ratio or 12.5:1 compression ratio. meaning without any modifications you have a motor already good for alcohol. Overall, the AR does not have all those parts available to it but if you look at all of the above you see that a stock AR essentially starts where a highly upgraded k series ends. Toyota also made over 4 million of these motors so they are cheap as hell and easy to find. The only thing this motor is missing is camshafts and I'm working on fixing that. I expect that with camshafts i will make available soon you'll be able to take a 100% stock motor, install the camshafts and my header, the stock intake manifold with my velocity stack MAF pipe and get 300whp. It might require the 12.5:1 CR version if the 10.4:1 version does not do it. On the topic of camshafts, this motor has dual variable valve timing, this means it has a much wider torque band so if you had an AR and a K series with the same peak horsepower and peak torque rating the AR would make more power because it would stay near those peak numbers for much longer. The peak power on this motor is generally wide enough that even the very wide the 1-2 shift still keeps you at 90% of max horsepower. Then, for the cherry on top, the AR bolts right to the E series Toyota transmission which is as bulletproof as an OEM transverse transmission gets for drag racing, heck the Honda guys upgrade to it because of it. There's also dog shift kits available for it if you want to push it further. There's also the EB60 transmission that bolts to it which is not as strong but more than strong enough and has a really nice modern shift feel for a daily driver. So, with all that information, 2arfe vs k24a2. Which one would you pick?
@@keitht8595 Yeah, it's pretty awesome how much commonality there is in the bolt patterns across much of the Toyota lineup. The camshafts will be here very soon and there will be a video soon.
Have you thought about instead putting the shortest gear ratio in and and lowering the power instead? It is really easy to add timing and such…very hard to change the gear ratios. You can also do power by gear possibly…
It isn't hard at all for me to change the gearing in the trans. Delaying the 2nd gear shift as long as possible will help the time. I also have 3.933 and 4.285 gears on hand here so if i find that i am not able to break the tires free by launching extra hard i will go for shorter gears.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks super long gears only work when you have lots of low end torque and a short rev range. It is going to feel like the longest gear in your life running down that short 1/4 mile
@@evilthorne keep in mind, with 210lb*ft of torque on a relatively flat torque curve and a 2000lb chassis it's got more acceleration than a 2GR-FE(260lb*ft) in a stock 2900lb chassis. about 17% more and the 2GR at stock weight is hard to get it to not spin in first gear even with the 3.625 gears. It's also the same story for the horsepower, if you scale up the 241whp max power i've gotten from this thing already by the weight difference you get about a 16% better power to weight. But I'm really not afraid of having to pull the trans to swap out gears. I have to make an assumption to start and this is where i think it might be best but i'm totally not afraid to admit i'm wrong once i start getting data from the drag strip.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks I am definitely not doubting you doing what needs to be done if that means swapping them. You also could have mentioned the fact you are probably getting rid of one shift as well. Good luck, and I look forward to the swapping FD video😜
@@evilthorne I'll be sure to get it on video :) and yes, it does save a shift into 4th. It's tall enough that even the 11.0 run that i'm aiming for should just be a 1-2-3 run. Partially because of the tall gears and partially because of the higher redline at that point.
@@evilthorne I currently have a 98 4Runner with the bullet proof 5VZ and its around 300k miles. Whenever this motor gives up I'm going to move to a turbo 4 cylinder. It would be really cool if the AR stuff became affordable in the next few years but as of right now a 2RZ is probably what I'll end up building since it all swaps fairly easily
100% I have already been thinking about this combo. I think if the stock ecu is kept plus smog stuff this will pass through a California smog referee, which is the route I want to ideally take once I ditch the 5sfe.
@@qwuyn Yes, this should be pretty easy to pass through a california swap inspection. Just make sure you tell me when you order the ECU. I'll just send you a non immobilized ECU but otherwise unmodified. As for early vs. late, i think 1993 is the later year but if you email me a picture i can confirm it for you.
@@thomasiturraran3623 You can buy the ECU from me, no core required for $450 directly from my store. Just place a note indicating you want this for California and it needs to be a Scion tC because it would fail emissions if i send you a Highlander ECU since that is a different class of vehicle.
My main reason for using the 2AR-FE is because of how well it fits in the MR2 Spyder but I want to push the engine to show that it can make more power than the k-series that everyone currently loves. But since there isn't a good repository of MR2 Spyder drag racing records I decided to go for the record in an SW20 instead to make the record a bit more legitimate in the community's eyes. In the SW20 the 2AR-FE is mostly a really good low cost swap for people wanting just a bit more power than the turbo engine used to make, think of it as a modern beams except it makes even more power and only costs $200-$300. For people wanting to hit the 300-350whp range the 2GR is a better motor for the MKIII platform but beyond that, the 2AR would be much more cost effective because it leaves way more room in the engine bay to install a turbo. Plus, i like going down a road that hasn't been traveled before.
@@driftke70 Yes, the website i pointed to in the video (MR2Nation) currently has the naturally aspirated record held by a 2GR but the k swap from Eric Hux is just behind him and with the changes that he has done he will be at the top of the chart as soon as he runs the car again. It should be close to an 11.0s quarter mile. If there is a better site with documentation for the records i would be happy to go after whatever the best record currently is as long as it is naturally aspirated without nitrous.
This is a minor thing but a "spotting guide" for how to identify a compatible E15x transmission would be nice; I'm lately getting inspired to dig into Toyota stuff and would prefer to find something that can both bolt to the 2AR and the ST185 transfer box. I didn't realize the Elite 1500 does dual VVT; that makes it an interesting option for some things.
Look into the E352F and E359F from the 2000-2005 RAV4. They run the newer AZ/AR bell pattern and have a transfer case compatible with the ST165/185/205 rear diff, though with a much more compact iron case.
Commenting for the algorithm. Good stuff right here.
All Hail The Algorithm :) Thanks
I am SO excited for this build. I can't wait for more people to start digging into the AR engines
Hopefully other vendors don't dig in too quickly, i want to be on the ground floor for performance parts for this engine.
why has it taken this long for this engine to get attention?? its been around since 2009..... the same goes for the 2zz, apparently the torqueless high power band, all of a sudden (3 years ago) is now a better designed engine than the 3SGE beams dual vvt-i engine...???
Thinking about building a 2AR to swap into my Celica Alltrac to replace my 3SGTE. Could these be build for forced induction and around 350hp?
In your tinkering with the AR family. You ever have a problem with the valve stem seals and/or piston rings? Oil consumption?
I have not, in fact the motors i have used have stayed very clean. The problem seems to be related to carboning up with excessive low load usage and that's simply not a condition that the motors i use are exposed to.
Id be interested in an aw11 mount kit!!
This is getting really exciting!
Yeah, i'm really excited about this. I have one other thing i have to do before i can bring it into the shop to properly start working on it.
I'm absolutely interested in this! I see a lot of these parts may be the same as some of the 2zr-fe components. If you knew anything about those engines, I'd love to know! I'm a budget build kinda guy, so your content has interested me. Also! I do not see much toyota stuff going on. Us Corolla guys need mod help too lol Thanks a bunch dude!
Wanted to see you bolt the S54 to the 2ar.
The S54 is behind the car in the trailer so i wasn't able to get to it. But i will test this and give the info out as soon as i can. Sorry about the delay
S54 uses the same bolts that he showed on the e153. I currently have one bolted up. I opened up one hole for a 12mm bolt on the s54 and tapped one hole in the 2ar block. Then I did get 1 maybe 2 smaller bolts on the bottom as well.
The one man band .
Far future swap project: Swapping a turboed Toyota engine/trans into a Honda Civic.
I have considered that troll move :) i may but just as you said, it'll be a bit if i ever do it.
Gottem!
"Second Gen looks better" Voted this video a thumbs down. lmao. jk. Always a great video
Except not only do i agree with the fact that the second gen looks better, this build is being done with a second gen car :)
It wont need to be a straight drag build. Swap tires and throw camber in it.. viola , road race use
I’m planning on doing a swap since k swap are getting popular.
Which swap are you planning on doing?
Where are you finding $300 2ARs?? Around me they are 2x as expensive
Toyota very conservatively made 4 million of these, that's probably shy by a couple million. They are all over many pick-n-pull yards, i just checked a pick-n-pull pricelist in texas and it shows $206.99 for a complete engine and a $49.99 core charge so $275 with tax. These pick-n-pull style yards where they have a fixed price for an engine are way better deals and they have nice engine cranes to help you pull the engine out quite easily.
Can’t wait to see what people can do with these super common engines. Excited for what is to come!
What is the reasoning behind using a Haltech 1500 instead of a more affordable model like the haltech 550?
Jeff, the summary it gave me when it notified me of this stopped at the "m" in more, i thought you were trying to say motec and i was expecting to have to explain that not everyone has a massive budget to work with. But this is quite the opposite question. The primary reason is the drive by wire. The 1500 is the cheapest model that supports the DBW system. You could certainly convert to a drive by cable and probably do it for less than the $700 difference in ECU pricing but then there's also the Dual VVT-I and that isn't supported until the Elite 1000. The difference in price between the 1000 and the 1500 is $190 and if you look at the feature chart you gain a whole lot more than just DBW when going from the 1000 to the 1500, you also gain a nicer long term learning feature set, an ignition table that can depend on three variables instead of two, three level engine protection (this is really only a gain for the endurance racing i do, for street driving the single level is just fine). it also picks up all the race functions like the advanced boost control and the advanced flat shift support except. the only thing it is missing is the fancy torque management. It also picks up two extra outputs to make it so the DBW system does not consume additional outputs.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks I see. Thank you for the thorough explanation. Having never used a haltech ( or any custom ecu) myself, I was a bit confused as to what the difference would be in regards to this application. Having seen all of your 2ar videos, I knew you would have a good reason for choosing the more expensive device.
I put all aftermarket ECUs that have dedicated harnesses behind the passenger seat in SW20s and AW11s
That's exactly where i am planning on placing this one. It makes for the shortest wire routing to keep the weight down.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks theres even a nice spot on the firewall and the wire grommets from a 2ZZ toyota are perfect for the location along with some tesa tape
I'm a year late, but I am interested in putting one of these in my 2nd gen for street use. Would probably want to do some top end work to make it rev higher though. Ideally I'd want it to have that same spirit of the beams engine. What's the highest you've gotten these to rev?
I have rev'd it to 8600RPM on the dyno but i have only raced it to 7600RPM. I will likely bump up the redline to 7800 for the next race, trying to sneak up on it
Do you by chance have any comparison pics of the AR next to the S-series that came out of Evey? I'm still trying to figure out how I'll shoehorn one of these into an SV25. It looks like I may have to build a bulge into the hood to clear this tall son of a gun.
Not yet but there has been enough request for this, i will get this soon and post it.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks Jeez I wish UA-cam notified me of responses! I've been doing some eyeballing and it looks like the MR2 engine-side mount is largely identical to the mount in the same position as my rig (an 88 Camry All-Trac) so I reckon I should put it in writing I am very interested in seeing a production engine mount for an AR into an SW20. If it isn't perfect, it'll be pretty dang close to what I need.
@@jeffman3 I don't have an all-trac here to compare so i can't speak to that but i'm happy to hear that it should be close.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks I will happily shell out the cost of the mount to confirm if they go to production. Alternatively, after you have this engine mounted in Evey I can cover the cost of shipping for you to send me the original 5S mount so I can compare it to the one I have; if it is compatible, it will be a safe bet that the MR2 2AR mount will work for what I am doing.
I get the logic using sw20 but hope u make a zz drag car too sometime. Not many out there. Good luck
I’m still blown away by what you did with the 2ARFXE build and taking in the “streetable” possibilities.
It also makes me curious if something similar is possible with the 1NZFXE 🤔
The 1NZFXE looks like it might be able to do the same thing as the 2AR-FXE but nobody will know until someone tries it.
Did you end up bothering to try the S54 fitment?
NixSpeed is currently building an AW11 and they confirmed the S54 has the same thing going on as the E153, the '91 and '92 bolts up but it's a bit light on bolt positions, the '93+ has more than enough bolt locations.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks thank you so much! Now to hope the engine oil pan clears my front engine mount support bar in my 6 gen Celica!
@@Breazeh That question is one i can't answer but i suspect it will.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks have you seen anyone in forums or discord doing the same swap in a gen 6 Celica?
@@Breazeh i regularly get questions about it but i do not have any details
doesnt the e351/e350 transmssion fit this engine as well? i know the eb60/62 fits the 2azfe, and that came on the 2arfe. I guess its another option? The e351 has the same 1-5th gear ratios as the eb62 if im not mistaken. I know its also more common then the 6 speed too. I just wanted to make sure because my brother and I bought an e351 for a 08 camry, 2grfe manual transmission swap and I know the e153 fits that engine too.
Also what clutch would you recommend that isn't terribly expensive? I don't want to run the stock clutch because the 2grfe has double the hp of the 2azfe stock engine. lol.
Yes, the E351 does bolt to the engine. Unfortunately it is know for having a differential which will not put up to drag racing abuse. But for a non drag racing car it is a great trans.
I generally use the TC8-HDG6 clutch and i've been very happy with it. It is a 6 puck ceramic design that some people do not like on the street though. Though that works with the EB60 trans, you will need the TC1-HDG6 for the E351
Can't wait to see some 2AR SW20s on the streets! They should make very nice, low-lag power with an EFR 7163.
That's refreshing to hear someone try to point out a turbo that isn't state of the art .... for 1991. I 100% agree that this screams "turbo build" and i'd like to get to that in time but first i need to get the NA stuff done first because all the NA stuff will help make the turbo build way more efficient.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks I don't get the insistence on using old turbos. Maybe people just don't do their own research and feel safe sticking with what they know. My current SW20 is getting a 2GR that I plan to keep NA (at least initially, the Harrop Supercharger is very tempting). If I had stupid amounts of money I would definitely by another just to do a turbo 2AR though. Anyway, glad to see someone finally getting around to mass producing performance parts for this awesome engine because Toyota certainly wasn't going to put it in a chassis that encouraged aftermarket support (the 86 was a wasted opportunity) smh.
does the record need to be done with a 4cyl?
No, the leaderboard will take any engine. But my goal of this project is to show what i can do with that 4 cylinder motor that has amazing availability.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks awesome! I’m excited to see the results. Keep it up
the SW20 is very near and dear to me, so very excited to see how Evey unfolds. I had a 91 T-Top SW20 turbo back in 2005. If I ever get another SW20 that's Either NA or with a broken 3SGTE I will definitely put in a 2AR-FE. I've been fascinated by this engine since I read about Papadakis using it in the Hatchback that Fredrick Aasbo used to drive in Formula Drift until he got a GR Supra.
Yeah, that build he has is quite impressive. Especially how many stock components were in the build when it was making closer to 850whp.
As a bit of a car nerd, you are now my favourite UA-cam channel! Love from Tasmania
Thank you for watching, i appreciate it :)
Please produce a production engine mount and camshafts. Also, how do you plan to do the coolant system? Specifically a tank in the engine bay.
On the first go around I will just use the stock MR2 cooling setup to keep things simple but that is certainly something that could change, either for cooling capacity or for weight reduction. It might also get another major change if i ever need to go to methanol to take the record.
Great Video Marc! I am really excited to see you make this car and hopefully achieving the world record. When is your target to complete? It would be awesome for you to break the record at MR2 Nationals next year!!!
I'm not really bounding this project with a timeline but i think this will be done sometime in 2022. I hope to get the first run at the strip with this car sometime before the strip closes for the season this year but i guarantee that won't be the record run :)
A lot of balance and smart information here. Not gonna change torque on these. So glad all the parts for the spyder are back in stock. Keep the videos coming.
Right, i expect that at best i'll make 250lb*ft once i switch to a different kind of fuel. Naturally aspirated motors generally don't change their peak torque numbers unless they are making peak torque below 100% volumetric efficiency but very few modern motors hit less than 100% VE at peak torque. Those easy gains left when the 90's left us.
#1 vs V6 swaps and k swaps???
Yes, exactly! The V6 swaps are fast but they are too expensive to mod and there's not enough parts available so i don't expect to have issues with the V6 guys. As for the K-Swaps, that's exactly what i'm trying to prove here. The AR is a better platform and i intend on proving it out.
Plus the guys who k swap usually turbo and the guys who v6 are not usually striping their cars down to such a low weight.
@@raviolitrail I do want to explore turbo stuff also but trying to go after a record in the 7's is a bit much for a first serious drag strip build.
Would love a 2AR swap kit for the SW20. Cams for sure (high performance street N/A).
Awesome, The mount and the cams is something i know for sure will be available. at first i will likely just be the 250whp cams but as others get figured out i'd like to probably have 3-4 offerings on the market.
This is what I am interested in as well.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks How soon do you think you will have mounts ready for the 2AR SW20 swap?
@@thomasiturraran3623 no exact date at this point beyond "before the end of the year". i know that isn't too precise but it's all i have right now.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks That is actually very helpful in regards to my planning my current build. Looks like Ill be shopping for a 2AR over the next couple of months. : )
Im highly interested in a 2ar swap, but in a FWD toyota. So whatever engine parts you you plan on fabricating or selling count me in.
Awesome, can i ask what chassis?
@@FrankensteinMotorworks 99 corolla, i want to build one for drack amd track. Im gighly exited for this project.
@@e5141981 that's awesome! I'd love to help you out as you go. Keep in mind too if you use a haltech from me I'll be happy to share my tunes as I keep developing them.
Also, I might have missed it but are you putting a LSD in yours?
I don't think I mentioned it but yes, I will have an LSD unless I can find a spool for the E153. Being able to heat up the tires and get them sticky is important.
Frana I believe it is, sells a spool.
@@nickbianco2750 Yeah, they pretty much make anything like that if you just supply them some parts to measure. A spool would be a good weight savings and would not have any disadvantages for drag racing.
Look at going to a much thinner gauge Tefzel wire, you could also batch fire the injectors and go waste spark to minimize wiring and no need for a cam trigger.
I like what you're thinking! I had never heard of Tefzel wire before but i just compared it to the TXL wire i was planning on using . 22ga for example is 1.67grams per foot and Tefzel looks to be 1.62grams per foot so it isn't a huge gain over the already light TXL. Currently i don't have all the terminals for the plugs on the motor so i won't use use Tefzel for the engine harness but i really appreciate the info and I will be using it in the future.
As for your waste spark/batch fire in semi sequential mode, that is a great way to save weight but that unfortunately would prevent me from running the dual vvt-i system and that would cost too much horsepower. for this particular engine.
I do plan on doing things like sharing power rails for the cam sensors instead of splitting the wires at the ECU, every gram counts here.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks with your existing car in datalogging overlay cam position with a 1/4 mile run excluding the gear change window how much is the VVT actually being used? might not be worth using VVT on a drag engine where you will only be at WOT hopefully in the 4000/5000 to 7000+ RPM range?
@@allan80supra from what i can see it would really hurt the 50 to 80mph acceleration (beginning of 2nd gear) but honestly it's a bit hard to tell because i don't know exactly what shape the power curve will be. But since this car is also an R&D platform for the engine i really need to have the dual vvt-i to show off the motor's capabilities.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks yeah R&D vs race car will create some conflicts, Would suggest putting a Deutsch HDP (much easier to repin than autosport) bulkhead or two on the firewall so you can yoink the motor easy and if you find VVT is not that helpful a second simplified race motor and loom, I imagine there is significant weight in the VVT system and probably some oil pressure that could be used better elsewhere if you find VVT is not needed.
@@allan80supra I actually considered a bulkhead connector for the engine but with the ECU right on the other side of the firewall it'll be just as easy to pop a grommet and fish three connectors through (two for the ECU and one for the power supplies) and it'll be a tiny bit lighter that way. Heck, i've even ordered 10mm hollow tube for the transmission dowels. To get below 2000lbs i really will have to try every last thing.
The vvt-i phasers and solenoids weigh about 4.5lbs total and putting back on fixed gears on the cams puts about 0.8lbs of that back on so it certainly is a savings. The wire harness difference is probably 25-35 grams or so. keeping the phasers there will make more power, it's just a question of if they make enough extra power to be worth the weight. it'll be pretty easy on the dyno to simulate a fixed cam position to get dyno charts with and without it to calculate that. If it makes sense I certainly will make a different version of the engine without it. Along with a different engine harness so i can switch back and forth as needed.
As for oil pressure, it's honestly already mostly being bypassed. The pump has way more volume available than what it uses. I'll have to see if i can find it but there was a big deal about the oil bypass valving in this motor in the new motor guide that Toyota put out.
Looks promising.
Im in Australia and no issues with engine numbers not even close.
Was i wrong then? are engine serial numbers being visible not actually an Australian requirement?
@@FrankensteinMotorworks nar theyre 100% a requirement but where they are on the motor isn't near where you have to grind.
@@driftke70 Ahh, ok. I had read your original comment incorrectly then. I'm glad to hear this makes it better for you guys. Just a nice side benefit :)
@@FrankensteinMotorworks we both speak English but still a language barrier sometimes haha.
Definitely willing to do this swap once the mounts are one the market. I'd like to figure out how to make this California smog legal on the stock engine. Ideally, I would be able to do this swap, pass the bar inspection, and then install the cam upgrades for the increased power. If I could use the 12.5 compression ratio engine and pass smog that would be better as I could run e85 after passing BAR.
Passing BAR with this engine should be pretty easy. I'll confirm the stock exhaust manifold fits when i get there but i'm pretty sure it will without any modification. You'll also have to use the stock intake also but that's easy to fit. The hardest part will be the evap system but if you put the fuel pressure regulator in the gas tank instead of the frame rail and remove a bunch of the old vacuum hoses on the tank it should be possible to make it pass.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks That's great news! The fuel system modifications you described are similar to what people have done to get the later vvti 1mz engines to pass smog. Does an unhacked stock ECU work?
@@stonehedge559 yeah, same kind of thing for the evap as the 1mz. you just need to get rid of as much of the hoses as possible to reduce the evaporative "sweating" through the hoses.
The stock Scion tC ECU will work well and i can hook you up with a stock but non immobilized ECU.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks sounds perfect, Are there anything modifications at all in that ECU?
@@stonehedge559 It's whatever i want it to be but i can take the immobilizer out without modifying any part of the tune so it would 100% report everything as the same
2arfe vs k24a2. Which one and why?
I think the fact that i'm going down this course should make it obvious which one I'm choosing but here's a few of the high level reasons:
The AR motor is available in 90mm bore and 105mm stroke (2.7L) right from the factory which the exact dimensions you'll get out of a K24 after you spend thousands of dollars on custom cylinder sleeves and a stroker crank for the K.
The AR's stock 90mm bore means that the valves are bigger. The stock intake of 36.5mm and 31mm exhaust is generally as big as the k can go once you spend a bunch of money upgrading the head. I know 4 pistons goes 38mm/30mm on their biggest offering which is even bigger, reaching that would take a bit of work on the 2AR but it would easily fit if you wanted it.
The AR motor will happily spin 8600rpm with just a little bit of valvetrain work, i've done it in previous videos. I plan on pushing it further to see what happens if i can make power up there.
Along with those larger valves the motor has huge intake and exhaust ports. which means the stock intake manifold has only shown 4kPa restriction at the 241rwhp(270hp) level. This means that the factory intake will likely flow enough for 300whp/340hp.
The AR is available right from the factory in 10.4 compression ratio or 12.5:1 compression ratio. meaning without any modifications you have a motor already good for alcohol.
Overall, the AR does not have all those parts available to it but if you look at all of the above you see that a stock AR essentially starts where a highly upgraded k series ends. Toyota also made over 4 million of these motors so they are cheap as hell and easy to find.
The only thing this motor is missing is camshafts and I'm working on fixing that. I expect that with camshafts i will make available soon you'll be able to take a 100% stock motor, install the camshafts and my header, the stock intake manifold with my velocity stack MAF pipe and get 300whp. It might require the 12.5:1 CR version if the 10.4:1 version does not do it.
On the topic of camshafts, this motor has dual variable valve timing, this means it has a much wider torque band so if you had an AR and a K series with the same peak horsepower and peak torque rating the AR would make more power because it would stay near those peak numbers for much longer. The peak power on this motor is generally wide enough that even the very wide the 1-2 shift still keeps you at 90% of max horsepower.
Then, for the cherry on top, the AR bolts right to the E series Toyota transmission which is as bulletproof as an OEM transverse transmission gets for drag racing, heck the Honda guys upgrade to it because of it. There's also dog shift kits available for it if you want to push it further. There's also the EB60 transmission that bolts to it which is not as strong but more than strong enough and has a really nice modern shift feel for a daily driver.
So, with all that information, 2arfe vs k24a2. Which one would you pick?
I did not know the E-series bolts right to the 2ar-fe. Also any word on your cam shafts?
@@keitht8595 Yeah, it's pretty awesome how much commonality there is in the bolt patterns across much of the Toyota lineup. The camshafts will be here very soon and there will be a video soon.
Have you thought about instead putting the shortest gear ratio in and and lowering the power instead? It is really easy to add timing and such…very hard to change the gear ratios. You can also do power by gear possibly…
It isn't hard at all for me to change the gearing in the trans. Delaying the 2nd gear shift as long as possible will help the time. I also have 3.933 and 4.285 gears on hand here so if i find that i am not able to break the tires free by launching extra hard i will go for shorter gears.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks super long gears only work when you have lots of low end torque and a short rev range. It is going to feel like the longest gear in your life running down that short 1/4 mile
@@evilthorne keep in mind, with 210lb*ft of torque on a relatively flat torque curve and a 2000lb chassis it's got more acceleration than a 2GR-FE(260lb*ft) in a stock 2900lb chassis. about 17% more and the 2GR at stock weight is hard to get it to not spin in first gear even with the 3.625 gears. It's also the same story for the horsepower, if you scale up the 241whp max power i've gotten from this thing already by the weight difference you get about a 16% better power to weight. But I'm really not afraid of having to pull the trans to swap out gears. I have to make an assumption to start and this is where i think it might be best but i'm totally not afraid to admit i'm wrong once i start getting data from the drag strip.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks I am definitely not doubting you doing what needs to be done if that means swapping them. You also could have mentioned the fact you are probably getting rid of one shift as well. Good luck, and I look forward to the swapping FD video😜
@@evilthorne I'll be sure to get it on video :) and yes, it does save a shift into 4th. It's tall enough that even the 11.0 run that i'm aiming for should just be a 1-2-3 run. Partially because of the tall gears and partially because of the higher redline at that point.
Do you know if there are any "easy fit" rear wheel drive transmissions for the AR?
I'm sure there is but unfortunately i don't know where to point you to at this point.
Possibly the J160 from the beams powered altezza
@@evilthorne I currently have a 98 4Runner with the bullet proof 5VZ and its around 300k miles. Whenever this motor gives up I'm going to move to a turbo 4 cylinder. It would be really cool if the AR stuff became affordable in the next few years but as of right now a 2RZ is probably what I'll end up building since it all swaps fairly easily
@@nickmudd considering the 5vzfe uses the same bolt pattern as a 3sgte it should in theory bolt to this engine. That's just speculation tho
100% I have already been thinking about this combo. I think if the stock ecu is kept plus smog stuff this will pass through a California smog referee, which is the route I want to ideally take once I ditch the 5sfe.
Also can you comment on how you determine and early vs late model e153? I know someone with a jdm 93+....
@@qwuyn Yes, this should be pretty easy to pass through a california swap inspection. Just make sure you tell me when you order the ECU. I'll just send you a non immobilized ECU but otherwise unmodified.
As for early vs. late, i think 1993 is the later year but if you email me a picture i can confirm it for you.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks What are you charging for that ECU service?
@@thomasiturraran3623 You can buy the ECU from me, no core required for $450 directly from my store. Just place a note indicating you want this for California and it needs to be a Scion tC because it would fail emissions if i send you a Highlander ECU since that is a different class of vehicle.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks do you think it will matter to the smog board if I have an FXE instead of an 2AR - FE?
Did I miss something in the video , whats the advantages of using this engine over the 2gr-fe?
My main reason for using the 2AR-FE is because of how well it fits in the MR2 Spyder but I want to push the engine to show that it can make more power than the k-series that everyone currently loves. But since there isn't a good repository of MR2 Spyder drag racing records I decided to go for the record in an SW20 instead to make the record a bit more legitimate in the community's eyes. In the SW20 the 2AR-FE is mostly a really good low cost swap for people wanting just a bit more power than the turbo engine used to make, think of it as a modern beams except it makes even more power and only costs $200-$300. For people wanting to hit the 300-350whp range the 2GR is a better motor for the MKIII platform but beyond that, the 2AR would be much more cost effective because it leaves way more room in the engine bay to install a turbo. Plus, i like going down a road that hasn't been traveled before.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks there should be some k motor sw20 drag times somewhere too
@@driftke70 Yes, the website i pointed to in the video (MR2Nation) currently has the naturally aspirated record held by a 2GR but the k swap from Eric Hux is just behind him and with the changes that he has done he will be at the top of the chart as soon as he runs the car again. It should be close to an 11.0s quarter mile. If there is a better site with documentation for the records i would be happy to go after whatever the best record currently is as long as it is naturally aspirated without nitrous.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks yeah true well will answer many questions all at once
This is a minor thing but a "spotting guide" for how to identify a compatible E15x transmission would be nice; I'm lately getting inspired to dig into Toyota stuff and would prefer to find something that can both bolt to the 2AR and the ST185 transfer box.
I didn't realize the Elite 1500 does dual VVT; that makes it an interesting option for some things.
Look into the E352F and E359F from the 2000-2005 RAV4. They run the newer AZ/AR bell pattern and have a transfer case compatible with the ST165/185/205 rear diff, though with a much more compact iron case.