GET YOUR HANDS OFF ME!!!
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- Опубліковано 10 жов 2024
- The reality of being a female cyclist.
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Let's clear up a few things.
For those saying 'you're being too sensitive'. This is not one comment, one time. It's constant and shouldn't happen in the first place to anyone. It also reinforces woman who 'taking it the wrong way' are at fault, not the person who said the unwanted / inappropriate comment. If you still don't think this is the case, listen to the women in the comments who have had these exact experiences, regularly!
As a UA-camr I brush off comments every single day. I deleted some of the worst comments but wish I hadn't now because just take two minutes to read some of the sexist, ignorant comments below. It just proves my point .
The comments don't bother me now but when I first got into cycling it really did knock my confidence. So I'm talking about it now because I don't want anyone to be put off from cycling.
I now think 'mansplaining' isn't a great term - it's not all men by any means, it's a small group of idiots so maybe it should be idiotsplaining.
One thing I've taken from this though is how many awesome, supportive and kind people there are out there who understand this is an issue and agree that we should all be able to ride bikes, and just have positive and encouraging interactions.
Couldn’t agree more. I am hopeful that as time goes by, you will see a positive change. Hold Fast!
Agree; "mansplaining" is patronising to the 99.99% of men who don't do this. "prattsplaining" is better.
Re: The video, I think it's often easy to misinterpret what people say (though the lengthy comments you describe are more obvious). The hands-on issue though? Definitely not on.
Yes..... perfect word 'idiotsplaining'. A lot of it Katie is from people who see their own weaknesses reflected back at them by people who ride or run. Stay strong, it can be a jungle out there🦁🐅🐘💪💪👍🚴
Thank you for putting this out there. I’d like to highlight a lot of the backlash coming from MALE commenters, go figure...saying someone is overly sensitive is dismissive and akin to gaslighting someone for having an emotional reaction to something that hurt them. NOT OKAY. And to the NOT ALL MEN commentary, it serves to derail the fact that an overwhelming amount of men are in fact in the wrong. It is called mansplaining for a reason and will continue to do so until men on a whole do better. Call out your fellow men for making you look bad as a whole, don’t stay silent. Do not apologize for standing up for the women who are often experiencing these issues daily.
Happy Sunday. I hope it is sunny and warm. You spoke your truth on your channel.
Having 'knowitall', 'mansplainer', 'bitofadick', on my resume, it's a bit of a downer to learn you're 'not helping', but alas, I was harming.
Thanks for having the courage to set us straight.
Fortunately, I have a wife and two college educated daughters, and I now have an advanced degree in listening.
I was vacationing (I'm male) and cycling a climb for first time. A young woman cycled up behind me, and said in friendly voice "wow, I never see anyone cycling here" We climbed together for a bit, chatting, I explained I was on vacation and wasn't familiar with the climb. I realized she was a stronger cyclist, so told her not to let me slow her down. She said, "it's OK", and continued to climb with me. Near the top, she pulled away a little, but then waited at the top for me. Very encouraging, not a hint of condescension from her. How it should be. Improved my state of mind for the rest of the vaca.
Love it!!!
Did you think she was being condescending or that she was ‘woman-splaining’??
@@pennywise146 Precisely not, because of the friendly and humble way she interacted, which I contrast to the kind of interaction described by Katie, which I think is common. That's the point.
@@truwth Touching is not ok....but ‘some’ people can be over sensitive to a friendly word of advice which can be taken out of context. I’m someone approaching retirement age but still do a lot of hillwalking...I often have interactions of this nature but always view it as well intended (as I’m sure it is)....probably as I’m secure enough in my own abilities to conquer tasks I take on....just my opinion.
@@pennywise146 Secure vs. insecure certainly came to mind when I viewed the video.
As a bloke I took 4 months off work for each of my 2 kids when they were very young babies so that my wife could return to work and so that I could get the experience of enjoying my kids as babies. If you think Mansplaining is bad.......try Womansplaining. Yes, I can deal with most things that comes out of a baby and pretty much everything that needs to go in. I can shop, clean, iron, cook, make beds, do the washing and all of it one handed while holding a baby if needed...but wow...the amount of patronising advice was.....well...what you would expect.
Most of it is that people are socially awkward and tend to blurt something out...and most times it's just they are trying to be social and get flustered by something they didn't expect. Often people just want to initiate a conversation as they like the look of you!
So let's agree to call it humansplaining.....most of us have been guilty of doing it.....as well as receiving it...from all genders. Forgiveness and a cheeky/lighthearted comment in return with a smile
I'm a heavy dude.
Was doing a climb, people will give me the looks "this fat dude is slow" or kept on asking my much I weights.
I don't care. I hit my target and that's important.
Yeah how can they say that to you when they are eating 5 - 6 McDonald's on their way home in their car..... World's gone mad
And you did something they could likely not do at all!
GOOD FOR YOU MATE its about your enjoyment not some ones else's .keep those cranks turning .
The funny thing is that many of these rude people are living in that belief that whenever they tell you such a thing, they have successfully put you down in front of others and they came across as a confident, great person who really knows his/her job. But it's the exact opposite, after that during a coffe stop they will sit right in the middle of the café on their own and everyone else in a circle right next to the wall to stay away from them. :D
@@mateagoston8145 @Máté Ágoston Correct we had one in our club but was made to feel a total Dick head and so left TG.
Hands on is a no no. But the comment at bottom of hill I have heard similar hundreds of times to both men and women.
I had something similar whilst riding out with my partner last weekend. We approached 3 guys and we were going faster so after a while we overtook them but I had a friendly chat with an older guy at the back first. My husband went round them first but then when I went round the front two, one of them hit the pedal hard to keep up with us and he left his two mates behind.... way behind. He just didn’t like a woman passing him and I wasn’t really trying that hard. After a while he stopped at the side, having proved his fitness level he then waited for his mates! 10 minutes later we were going up a hill and we were checking out a squeak on husbands bike so going slowly. The 3 blokes caught us up and as they went by one of them said to me ‘ go on, you can do it’. Now you could say he was being encouraging but it really annoyed me. It was a little hill and I was just chilling going up there. I knew I could bloody do it!! It was said to me, not my husband who was also chilling some way behind me, we had nothing to prove. I think most women know the difference between being patronised and someone being friendly.... after years of it happening, we just know 🥴
Men hate to be passed by women on bikes. I sometimes pass groups of club cyclists and they never disappoint - always kill themselves pedaling to catch up and pass me again. One time, a guy in the back turned round and said "we can't help it - we're guys!" I had to laugh! But, in all seriousness, my response to many of the issues that Katie encountered would be to tell the guy to f-off. I have zero tolerance for that crap!
I was going up a climb with a friend of mine, and a lady passed us, probably going about 25% faster than us. My friend IMMEDIATELY sped up, before realising after about 20 seconds that it was probably not possible. There was no comment, no attempt to pass her out. - I must admit, I found it to be hilarious, and rib him regularly about it
Nothing more creepy than being followed when you overtake someone. Bad cycling etiquette on their part.
Reference the original comment, this is not sexism. I am a bloke, and I've had comments as I've passed people on climbs saying 'it's a long way to the top mate', as if they don't think I can hold the pace to the top, this is life in general. Blokes make stupid comments to blokes too, I assure you.
I've had this as well, and comments about my gears I've got on my bike. TBH, it's just someone who thinks they're being humorous, but they're not. Hay-ho, I just carry on.
Agree its not necessarily sexism, I've had it done to me as a man. But I bet women experience this more..
A person of female origin shouted to me on Wednesday “ that climb is hard work and the wind is at you” ... As a man I was offended ! Said no one ever. Shameful vlog.
I think it is only sexism if the person in question who made the comment would only make such comment to a woman. If the person makes the same comment to each person who passes, no matter the gender, I agree it is not sexism. But comparing a similar situation that a man experienced and a woman experienced from different people in different locations doesn't invalidate the fact that it might have been sexism in one case. But it's true, we don't know, unless we collect more data. But it's fair to say that it has happened to a lot of women, and even if the man is maybe trying to be nice by offering some advice, it's seen as condescending as it's seems like the man does not believe Katie would have been capable of making the climb. And if that assessment is based on her gender, well yes, then it's sexism. And this is what's annoying. Just because a rider is female doesn't make that rider less capable. Experience may make someone less capable, but not the gender.
I get it all the time.
First of all, I've never heard of mansplaining, let alone knowing what it means, so I learned something. Secondly, being an older cyclist and having been trained as a cycling instructor, I find that I still have to strike a fine balance between offering advice in a training environment and not doing so unless asked out on the road. This applies also to whoever I meet out on the road. I'm not a particularly great reader of people, (borderline Asperger's) but if out on the road and I see anyone with a mechanical or puncture etc, I will offer to stop and help.
I have had all sorts of responses from "It's ok, I've got it sorted" to "I don't need any man to fix my bike, f**k off". Sometimes I just end up undecided and cycle past. Best thing is not to take it personally. I have had to work on my approach to offering help because I have been told in the past that I had (unintentionally) a condescending tone. I'm always happy to help but sometimes inability to read others can leave me looking stand offish or rude.
However, all that being said, I will not touch another person or other person's bike in any situation unless I have their permission to do so. That's obvious to me.
Asking if someone needs help is (should be) part of the camaraderie of cycling. I ask anyone who looks like they've got a mechanical they've got everything they need or need any help. Most people say they're fine, but I've helped plenty of people with their bikes. Just riding past is shitty behaviour. But it is of course all in the delivery of the offer for help; ask, don't assume. And don't touch anything without in invitation or positive response to a question
I find "you Ok ?" works with any cyclist at the side of the road . I will be conversing with other cyclists regardless of whether they have a penis , vagina , or a flippin cloaca . If they want to take it the wrong way , it's their issue . PLEASE don't drag cycling into this sexual political psyco drama that is being played out in the western world in general . Cycling is a great leveller . Hard Knott is hard and flats are flat . Touching someone elses cycle mid ride is a massive no no for me . No excuses for that. I love KK's content and she has documented how she struggles and I can sympathise with that having had experience of an anxious partner. It's tough when the mind focuses like that to break the anxiety cycle .
Agree with all the replies here and your comment. It does appear that in this "modern age" you have to be very careful, especially if you are a white middle aged heterosexual male. My advice would be get fit & hammer them, but then again I'm old school.
Keep offering your help if thats what you like doing ! 👍 . A professional psychologist will tell u how people react to your question is out of your control , if they do not like it its their own issue not yours . As long as your not offensive ofcourse and ofcourse not demanding people appreciate your help as again that can lead to dissapointment 🤣👍 😀
"I don't need any man to fix my bike f**k off." Well that's sexist as f**k. I really like that in England so many people offer me help in case of a puncture, even sometimes drivers and perhaps the only negative side of that is by answering to everyone "No, thanks, I am fine." a 10-15 minute inner tube change becomes a 30 minute one, but really the only thing I can do is to laugh at it and thank everyone the offer.
I'm a male cyclist and I've had men and women cyclists advise me that a climb is long and/or steep as I start it. Also advice that I'm nearly at the top. I'll do the same as I see it as a friendly gesture. I've never taken it as condescending even though I'm old enough to be the dad or grandad of most who give me this advice.
Same here mate.
It’s the way it’s said most of the time and on climbs I will be asking my mates ‘we nearly at the top?’ But it wasn’t asked for.
Some people are offended by everything.
It's happened to me a number of times as well, but may be it tends to happen way more often to women?
@@salvuagius I think if you're looking for a problem. You will find one.
I think we may be overly sensitive on occasion. People are actually quite nice and willing to be friendly and helpful, and they may not intend to offend. I also have had an unsolicited hand in the small of my back while struggling up a mountain. I appreciated the help. And I've also received some unsolicited, helpful advise on gearing. At the same time, some people can be a bit much. Just be nice to each other and give them the benefit of their likely good intentions.
Food for thought
Well said.
i respectfully disagree. Katie is a superbly fit cyclist.... all you need to do is look at her form to know. and even then it would not matter. She was there, we were not.
Kudos
Best comment imho. Thing is, the difference between us will only get bigger if 99% of all comments and actions are seen as sexism or whatever. It is a dangerous trend imho. Does mean I agree with being cautious when pushing/touching someone, especially a woman. That’s common sense though.
I'm a 62 year old man. Last summer I was riding up Leith Hill and when I reached the top 2 women cyclists in their 20s saw me and one said, look at him hasn't he done well. And the other replied, and he's going so fast.
The main problem for me is that cycling is such a poesy and snobby sport.
Also people are amazingly unfit ! So don't understand how fit a person can become regardless of age or size ! . That was probably your chance to get chatting with them 🤣
Confirms what I've always suspected - cycling in the UK is full of posers. 😂
Just discovered your channel and I’m so very glad I’ did. I have been flipped off, run off the road, called filthy names, honked at and stalked by men while cycling.It was so bad at one point I almost gave it up. I live in the southern u.s.a. where cyclist in general are barely tolerated and often targeted. I have avoided joining the local club for this very reason and because I would be the only women and I know at my age and ability I would not be able to keep up. I know my limits and respect theirs. The nature of my business and the other outdoor activities I am passionate about place me in “man land” as I like to refer to it on a daily basis. I am a cyclist who loves the sport just as everyone else who participates, not a female cyclist.
I know it’s probably not a fair comparison but as a senior male rider , I get the same attitude from some younger riders. Its the main reason I avoid group rides. So many big brains🙄. Anyway, we love ya.✌️
senior male rider? get more stuffy why don't ya? :D
@@jinxterx Jinter stfu please
@@Bayo106 Huh? What's your problem?
As have I
@@jinxterx accurate description so why the aggro
I have to say that a few years ago on a group ride, I was nothing but grateful for a guy to give me a push up a climb. I was the only woman in the group and was with my husband also. As I knew the guy I didn’t mind at all. I didn’t find it patronising or insulting. I was praised for completing the whole ride (at the same time as they guys) which was fast but I did struggle a bit on this particular hill. At least it kept us all together on the ride. I do also think there are a lot of male cyclists that can’t bear a woman being faster than them and they are the ones who can be insulting but I’ve only had a positive experience when riding with men.
Reminds me of something that happened many years ago. I used to cycle commute 30 miles a day, so I had good strong legs with fitness to match. It was a weekend and I was cycling to see my girlfriend. I was in casual clothes and thought nothing about passing two cyclists, I was in a world of my own. They caught up with me and said "I suppose you think you're being clever going passed us like that". I said dont know what you're on about. They then went passed, but the second one, swung in very close to my front wheel, I thought he tried to hit it. I noticed they had some club jerseys on. I've never liked confrontations and have never been quick with come back remarks. But I do know how to ride a bike. I caught them back up and sailed straight passed them and never looked back and never saw them again. I think if you can come back with something witty then do so. Other than that I would just ignore the comments. Touching is another thing though, they need to be told and put straight that it is not acceptable. Keep doing what you are doing and enjoy your rides.
Every single time I've passed club riders in their matching jerseys one of them has sped up and overtaken me then immediately eased up. Don't understand the mentality.
@Peter Rooney
Insecurity, pride I would guess.
Male ego fragile
Rode past two guys last summer who were on road bikes, I was on my MTB. They were going slow and chatting away I just approached them carrying my same speed.
Moments later one did exactly the same, swinging in and just missing my front wheel. Ironic thing is that had I been on my road bike, that incident wouldn't have happened. I'd not do it to another person, irrespective of being male, female or their choice of bike... Sad really.
@@peterrooney8236 I've seen that a lot with car drivers - speeding up to overtake, then slowing down. I can't figure that out either.
Heard that comment at the start of climbs plenty enough, its just one of them comments people make { its hardly mansplaing } its like when you get a huge meal put in front of you and some one might say { you won't be able to eat all of that } . Its called general chit chat. Love your videos and your dedication to cycling but i think this last year has put alot of us under stress/scrutiny/etc.
Men give unwanted advice to other men also. It's not necessarily a gender thing, but it's definitely ego. To tell someone else is to boost themselves above you, men and women alike. However, touching is crossing line! TBH, I find unwanted advice annoying too but then that's my ego 🤔. What people say is a reflection of themselves. Smile, feel sorry them and pass on by, don't get suckered into their ego game as you'll have already lost! x
Especially in cycling. Theres lots of insecure people
I agree. I'd just say "Thanks, I've been riding this hill a lot, cheers." and move on with life. Nothing has meaning unless you give it meaning.
But yes, the guys touching is totally uncalled for...
Oh man..how do you ever go through life? Must be tough! All those guys saying things that bother you! Insecure weirdos aren't just a recent thing..get back your testosterone bud
No need for the x at the end, she may be offended
I can only repeat myself. Hit aus hard as you can and leave him behind. There's No netter answer to that
I spent 20 years working as a nurse. Male nurses are not as common as they should be, and virtually everything that I learnt about nursing was from women. One effect of that time that still persists, is that I see women as being entirely capable of doing anything and tend to be surprised when they cannot do everything that I can do. That is usually only due to me being six foot six, 18 stone and therefore stronger and taller than most people of both genders. I am even surprised when shorter people ask me to get things for them from high shelves, again that's only because i am taller than the vast majority of people of any gender.
Women are as capable as men, the only significant differences are size, strength, stamina and the ability to bear children.
Most of the women cyclists that I see, are seen from behind as they whizz past me. I returned to cycling last year, after 23 years off the bike, am losing weight slowly (thank you for your inspiration with that) and gradually getting fitter and a little faster.
I often cycle with a gentle cycling group, with my partner, Jane, which has a number of female cyclists. Yes, I may have more mechanical knowledge than some them, yes, I may be faster than some of them, but I am not surprised when they are faster than me, better mechanics than me, or just better than me.
As a male nurse, I experienced sexism aimed against men and some aimed against women. I experienced sexual harrassment from women (and men). Did I have as much to put with as the average woman? I very much doubt it.
Whatever your gender, sexuality, size, shape or colour, you deserve to live without prejudice, harrassment or discrimination of any kind.
The sooner people realise that anyone can need a hand at times and anyone can be better, faster or stronger, the sooner the world can just get on with having fun.
I want to have fun and to help anyone that needs help.
Who needs help? It could be anyone.
Glad you are enjoying a return to great fitness!
I had the starwars music playing in my head reading all that, gender stereotypes exist for a reason. Suck it up and carry on.
it's not easy knowing what to say or do when coming across a fellow cyclist, male or female, so I just say "good morning" and ride on. the only time I say more is when someone has stopped for mechanical issues and then I only say, " you ok? do you have everything you need?" it's sad really 😢😢😢
You say "good morning" to people?
Are you mad...you do realise that if it's not a 'good morning' then you are literally offending people..?!😉
That's really all there is to it. It's easy. No need for anything more.
@@waynepearce415 There's a comedy video here on YT of a northerner who gets arrested in London for saying "hello." It's funny because it hovers very low over the truth.
Yep. Some people are clearly offended by everything.
I have had other men say this kind of thing all the time… it’s generally considered small talk or banter, but clearly some women think that everything is targeted at them because they are women.
So true sadly. It happened to me too (multiple times) and I was too afraid to say something. 😕 Thanks for speaking out! Stay strong and keep it up! 🥰
I’m a male and had both of those things done to me. It didn’t really bother me people saying about the hill but I didn’t like the push I was once given. Mainly because I wasn’t expecting it and it made me jump and nearly crash. The other day I had a guy overtake me and he said I could shelter on his wheel knowing full well I wouldn’t be able to keep up with him 🤷🏻♂️
I came to comment that it's not just women this happens to, I've had it loads too off cyclists of both genders, I do enjoy your vids Katie but I feel you have probably rubbed up a lot of your subscribers by tarring all men with the same brush, which I see you've amended now, I also find it a little coincidental that you have uploaded this video after all the recent demonstrations by women, which I have no issues with, but have you done it just for views ?? Either way I found it very offensive to men in general .
Katie,
I have watched your videos for the past year and half and found them to be hugely inspiring and look forward to watching more. As a 60 year old male, I have seen many changes for the better and having been raised by a very strong mother and fortunate to have 3 sisters who are all equally strong and driven in their own fields, I like to think, even at 60, I am very open-minded and keen to see further changes so that regardless of gender, we are all treated equally. What does concern me though is that in the process of this necessary change, all men are being tarnished, even those who are very open-minded and while it is right that you highlight issues, I worry that at some point, there maybe a unwarranted backlash.
I now think before I approach anyone to assist that may need help and in most cases sadly I just move on. I would never think it condescending to offer help to a women, I was brought up by my mother to be respectful regardless of gender or age, but this now seems to have changed and is interpreted in my opinion 'incorrectly' by many as insulting. Opening a door, (which by the way I do for both men and women) is now seen as wrong! How can this be.
Even writing this comment, I am thinking will it cause a backlash! How is it that we have come to this? I can't say if the person who made the comment as you were about to climb was condescending or not but if it made you feel uncomfortable I full understand your comments. Many of us (of an older generation......even if I still think of myself as young :)) in the past may have made comments, which now would be interpreted differently and it is correct that we all need to reconsider how these comments might affect others, but please remember not all men are like the two examples you have highlighted.
Thank you again for you videos and inspiration.
Take care.
I forgot to say the second issue (touching someone) is completely unacceptable and should not be tolerated, anytime, anywhere, by anyone.
@@cathalob1 Quite right! No human should EVER touch another human under any circumstances!!! Physical contact will NOT be tolerated!!
I’ve heard other guys commenting on my wife as she sped past them on a climb. They weren’t too happy when I told them what I thought of them :). As for condescending remarks on gender or equipment, seen it a lot in fishing and shooting too.
Sounds like those blokes need to grow up.
I’m not wishing to challenge how you felt about the comment, but I would offer a different perspective. It was a nice spring weekend here and lots of people were getting out on their bikes. While walking my dog I commented to more than one cyclist that it was great weather to be out cycling. That was just polite conversation. I wasn’t suggesting they were incapable of noticing the climatic conditions, or that they were too daft to watch the weather forecast before they started, or that they were wearing too many sweaters for the warm weather. Some people are just friendly and enjoy exchanging a passing comment with passers by without having some hidden agenda.
Bro, don't you understand? How dare you SAY A THING TO A WOMAN?!
« Hello lovely day for a ride isn’t it? » is not the same as « You ok love? Might want to take it easy in this heat. You know you need to drink at least a bidon an hour? Maybe put your saddle up whilst your at it ».
@Nigel Logan, Well said.
I've done my fair share of sportives and on every climb someone, male or female will tell me something about the climb I'm starting or already on whether it be how long I have left or how long or steep it gets round the next bend. It not people being condescending or because you're a woman it's just people offering you advice they think might help you. I for one feel better on a climb when someone tells me it finishes round the next bend, it gives me a boost to get round the next bend when my legs are telling me to quit. I was climbing up the Stwlan Dam in wales when some bloke walking up it shouted 'It gets steeper and steeper' as we went past. I could see it gets steeper and steeper myself but I never once thought he was being condescending. We actually spoke to him when he got to the top and he was a really nice bloke and he told us all about the climb as he was a local. I guess what I'm saying is don't take people's comments the wrong way unless they've obviously said something nasty as some people are just trying to be nice and helpful. I don't agree with touching someone though, that is wrong!
It has never happened to me cycling but once while going to work I opened the door for a lady. Her answer was: I can open my own doors! Since then, I wont offer anything until Im asked period.
And in the future they'll ask why aren't men Gentlemen anymore.
This is precisely why when a man opens a door for me I thank him enthusiastically!!! I love such courteous gestures!
As a man I get this from other men and women at times. Recently was ascending a very steep local ride and a man told me I was going to struggle to get to the top as I was going slow. We'd done around 4,000 feet and were enjoying ourselves. I know "helpful" club cyclists (both men and women) who give unwanted advice which puts folks off. Timely reminder for us all to engage our brains first.
I am staying in the pain cave where it's safe and sweaty. I sometimes say rude things to myself or my tech though.
The fact that this video exists says enough... and its not just in cycling...
Yes, angry insecure feminists and female cyclist( I am a 21 girl) if Katie was confident about cycling she wouldn’t care, if she was happy with herself she wouldn’t care and would be honest with herself
spot on
@@berfinberfi5457 words can still hurt no matter how confident one is, and everyone should be able to do things they enjoy without having to pass some sort of fortitude test. I’m pretty confident in my ‘identity’ cycling but abuse from fellow cyclists or white van men can still be painful.
@@defnoz
Omg, you too!? Cyclists are snobs for the most part. Toughen up, ffs and do what you do. People are people and snobs are gonna snob. Geez, not everybody gets a participation medal.
I'm a fat dude on a single speed. I've had people putting there noses up, other cyclists not acknowledge me on the road, uneducated people who look at me giving it all up a hill, bike mechanics over price me.
Sure, what you mentioned is people being condescending but it happens to literally everyone. Who here has has someone go past on a bike costing thousands and chuckle to themselves when they see your cheaper bike? I think everyone has had that experience. Anyone been berated by someone because you don't have this and that "Essential cycling kit" or don't have the latest jersey or whatever? I think most people have had that. Cycling is a very elitist sport and everyone will get stuff like this.
It's not Men Vs Women, It's Us Vs Them. The good people verses the arseholes. Good people don't have a specific race, colour, belief, gender. Bad people don't have a specific race, colour, belief, gender. Instead of blaming Men, Blame the arseholes because simply stating Men drags everyone down.
Spot on mate. Keep it up brother x
I don't wear the right kind of sunglasses or kit it seems, some of the pinarello/rapha types won't even give you a nod back if you aren't in the latest season kit.... Actually things have moved on now and even Rapha is beneath them, find the latest Italian/French/Outer Mongolia brand no one has heard of if you want to be in the "cool gang"... 😂
Am I missing something here? A cyclist tells another cyclist “it’s a long way to the top” or maybe says “nearly there!”. It literally happens all the time, male or female, and it’s just a fellow cyclist being friendly to another fellow cyclist. Get a grip. 🤦♂️
1) I am 100% in agreement with you that no one should should touch you without your explicit consent. I would never even think of doing that to another cyclist and I would have the same reaction as you if someone did it to me, 2) I don’t know about the UK, but in the US what you described about receiving unsolicited “advice” is extremely common whether you are male or female. I started cycling over 40 years ago and I still routinely receive “cycling advice” from complete strangers about equipment, hydration, route features, trail conditions, road hazards, etc. I have never felt the need to call it “woman-splaining” on those occasions when a female cyclist offered me unsolicited advice.
It’s not just to women. It’s the main reason I never ride with groups and always ride alone.
Must admit I like riding solo, or with very select friends and family. In the past I’ve never liked riding with strangers as I’ve often been made to feel inferior. Cycling is wonderful and I know there’s a ton of great people in it but it’s a bit of a strange world at times.
Yea totally agree I ride solo most of the time or with just one other person. I find with clubs/groups there’s just too much “I’m the leader follow me!” Or “you need to change that bike to be like mine!” Or that stem is too short” “that stem is too long” etc. I think it’s serial English club bellends.
@@the_fast_lifeyea you’re probably right there and cycling clubs seem to be full of them....only trouble is my legs aren’t that great I only ride on for pure enjoyment so it’s just easier to ride on my own. 😁
Definitely. Majority are fine but there's always one patronizing prick offering unsolicited advice. And I'm a man.
@@steveindorset pure enjoyment you say thats what you ride for, I challenge you to become really fit and then your pure enjoyment of riding your bike will triple
Oh get out of here Katie! People just talk like that to anyone to be friendly regardless of gender. I'm a bloke and often when hillwalking or cycling, people-men and women -will say things like..'You've got a fair way to go yet!!' and things like that. Talk about taking offence at the drop of a hat!
Exactly! Most people like to chit chat like this, especially with ppl who have something in common with them. No need to get so offended over it.
I think you're missing the fact that she would have heard the tone in which it was said. There can be a huge difference depending on the tone used.
@@andyh9068 How can you possibly discern meaning in someone's tone? The guy could be a bluff but friendly character who just talks in a dour matter of fact way. Do you have to talk like Graham Norton to be considered friendly?
@@blackdogwildtrails3123 so you have never realised someone was angry by the tone in their voice or even upset. Tone plays a huge part in how we perceive what is being said. I never said I knew what they meant but their tone can be a massive indication.
You're making some huge assumptions regarding men's intentions or motives just because of a single comment. Thanks to social media, everyone seems to be looking for a reason to be offended these days. A comment is just a comment and easily ignored unless it's obviously derogatory, racist, sexist etc. Intentionally touching someone else without consent however is an entirely different situation and the offender should always be called out immediately.
Maybe a bit more listening to Katie and a bit less telling her what you think. Mansplaining like that guy did is really shitty behaviour.
@@CyclingMikey Pretty sure Katie can speak for herself. No need for you to try and mansplain anything to me on her behalf.
I'm an asian rider but male and love climbing. And get similar condescending comments all the time. I just ride next to them on the next long climb and keep jabbering away to annoy them 😂
I’d never even think about touching another woman or man (I’m a guy) up a climb. Just let that person get on with it and give them encouragement.
The other side of the coin, is a man was trying to be helpful thinking you may not know it’s a tough climb. That is not mansplaining. Next time, respond “thanks, I’ve done the ride 30 times before and it’s a toughie.”
Spot on. People can be super condescending in general. When it's based on race, gender or se.other assumption it'd get pretty old, but I reckon it's fair game to shut them down to their face rather than whine about it and expect some sort of social movement to do the heavy lifting. I wish modern society didn't have such an aversion to being more honest and confrontational. It's possible to be so without being aggressive and we'd all benefit.
@@Millistration In real life, I've seen many more men acting condescending to women than vice versa. Too often the response to the women speaking up is aggression. In my 15-yrs in retail, I've had to distract a few guys in public who were telling the "stupid women she didn't know what the hell she was talking about". In the cases when it was a couple, I just hope it didn't escalate in private.
Why is the assumption to the side of ignorance though? Anyone turning up kitted and committed you'd think the assumption would be that they knew where they were and what they were doing.
Well said. There are a pile of us men who are patronizing “girls” by making those comments. The touching / pushing is flat out always wrong. I’d bet there is a slight sexual thing to that. Kinda “ooh I touched her backside “ mentality to it. I have two 20 something year old daughters and would be pissed at such a thing. There’s such a double standard still.
It isn't mansplaining, it's just some people think they know better and it doesn't matter whether you're a man or a woman they think they need to impart their words of wisdom whether it's wanted or not.
This is exactly why I support and follow every decision my daughter makes in bicycling (she followed me into it, now we ride together). She just hammers out miles and hills, leaving the smarmy behind.
This is also the reason that I am sad at the end of the day; because I am stereotyped.
I like meeting bicycle people, because I like to bicycle and be with people who can, but, I am never allowed to make a bicycle friend. WTF?
This is also why my favorite rides are between 100 and 200 miles with no one. Just me and every vehicle that wants me dead.
Wow, some of these comments have really riled me. To the men who seem to not understand why these incidents are infuriating and sometimes upsetting: They are small micro-aggressions that are sign of a conscious or unconscious bias (women are weak, women are never experienced or skilled riders).
Katie sharing her experience is an opportunity for you to have a think if you’ve acted in a similar way towards women based on assumptions you’ve made in the split second that you’ve seen them (you’ve seen a women on a bike so they must be weak/inexperienced and need help).
This isn’t an opportunity for you to tell Katie she’s wrong or has reacted incorrectly to situations she’s been in. That’s just being defensive when you’ve started to realise you have some challenging behaviours.
Real-life example: I ride either alone or with strong male riders that I’ve ridden with for years.
I’m used to other men giving a full out effort to try and overtake me on a ride. This is their unconscious/conscious bias telling them that as I’m a female rider I must be weak so they must also be weak if they can’t pass me. Because they’re doing a hard effort to pass, they often pass dangerously/riding in an almost desperate fashion.
The men that I ride with have commented that this almost never happens when they’re not riding with me. Whey they ride with me, it happens constantly.
It happens so often that I can’t let myself get angry about it on a ride because it would ruin every ride. But men are trying to tell me through their actions daily that I’m weak, and that really p*sses me off.
No problem with any of the examples given, but I would say that there has always been a degree of camaraderie between cyclists harking back to the days when there weren't many of us and we had to look out for one another. Hence why it's traditional to ask anyone stricken at the side of the road if they need any help. I think that's a great thing and hope we wouldn't ever be put off from doing that for fear that it might be misconstrued in some way. I had three punctures on a recent ride, and while the inquiries were kindly rebuffed for the first couple, when I'd run out of tubes they were very much appreciated.
Cyclists are generally a great and supportive community so I really hope we maintain that as the sport becomes more popular.
Yes absolutely. But I think if my ‘You OK?’ was interpreted as an unwanted intrusion, then the problem is with the hearer.
Very glad you posted this. I for one could not hold onto your rear wheel on the flats, let alone on a climb. Next time that "gearing" bloke goes past Chris Froome spinning on Alp D'huez i wonder if he would say that Chris' gearing is too low LMAO. It is very hard to believe (of course i believe...just a figure of speech) that a guy is such a jerk as to presumably push your ass. OMG GRRRR. as a large older male, i am super conscious in all social setting like walking (the most common) that women need to be security alert ALWAYS. I keep my distance and either nod or do what i can to be a non-threat. The only time it was easy for me to have social interaction was when my (late) dog, a beautiful friendly cocker spaniel was out walking with me. For some reason, a guy walking a dog is non-threatening. I agree most of your viewers are courteous types who do not likely need educating.... but we men need to be aware and pressure other men when they act inappropriately. KEEP INSPIRING women (and men) to ride safely and courteously Katie. You are a rare gem.
With all respect Katie. I definitely think you're over-reacting regarding 'Mansplaining'..... I'm a 13 stone bloke and I get comments like that too, bit sexist to say it's just because you're a woman. I do Shaley Brow nr Wigan all the time and it's a common thing to hear...."it's a tough climb this mate" or "take your time on this" etc etc. Yeah, it's a bit annoying when you know the climb well...but the comments are irrelevant, just get on with your ride. Just saying 👍
Um, do you not see the issue with telling a woman that they’re over-reacting about mansplaining? You do realise that you’re mansplaining about mansplaining?
As a woman we get this day in day out, with everything. At work, by random strangers on the street, online, criticising all aspects of our lives. There’s a different dynamic when men offer women unsolicited advice because men are already in the position of power in so many ways. After recent events in the press, and Katie being confident enough to come out with this video and call out mansplaining, why do you feel the need to make it about yourself and your intentions? Why don’t you just listen to women and realise we are sick of this and we don’t want unsolicited advice from men and we don’t want to be told how to feel?
@@ConnorFrench Get over yourself, don't turn this trivia into a political debate. My point was... it's a cycling thing. When you've had morons trying to knock you off the bike etc, then someone shouting a stupid quip really does pale into insignificance. She she just ignore it and carry on riding.
@@jav.611 I'm not falling into your 'snowflake' trap. Grow up.
@@jav.611 It's an issue for CYCLISTS. REGARDLESS OF GENDER!!!
Well said Katie. I often check with cyclists stopped by the side of the road if they're ok and offer help if needed - flat tyre, that sort of thing. And people have stopped for me when I've needed help. But I'd never tell people how to ride or suggest it will be tough. Thankfully I belong to a very supportive group of riders, male and female, some with challenging health issues but we always ride for each other.
Hi Katie, one of the biggest bugbears our female club members have to deal with is male cyclists being overtaken by them who then take it as an affront to their masculinity and then sprint to overtake back or cycle alongside for a chat.
I was in a group ride in Tenerife with about 8 male cyclists and another female cyclist. Most were going a bit too slow on the climb for my liking so I passed a few of them. But then they came racing behind me and passed me again, saying "machismo" in a joking manner. They basically confessed that they can't let a female rider pass them on a climb. I found it so silly. I just wanted to climb at my own pace (which happened to be faster than their preferred pace), who gives a crap which gender we are and feel insecure when a female rider passes them? I find this ridiculous.
Don't worry, the only man you'll be overtaking is a senior citizen.
@@eriwhere and then you woke up and realised you were dreaming :P
I can empathise. Riding around Tahoe lake on the organised event on a tandem with my daughter (an experience I can throughly recommend). We were not strong and had been cycling maybe 3 years at weekends only. She was 9 or 10 and I was late 40s with an office job and neither of us particularly skinny. It’s all 6,000ft and above with some climbs and we were slow. These young bucks were coming past and saying silly things like `she’s not pushing’ and ‘she’s got her feet up’ etc. No encouragement or anything positive and to a kid who was pedalling her heart out.
As you probably know, a tandem accelerates downhill like a lift with the cables cut. The memory of all blowing past all these massive ego’s listening to my little girl frantically ringing her bell and shouting `On your left’ will stick with me to the grave. The comments were much more positive when they caught up to us at the lunch stop.
Now retired and with some spare time your videos are encouraging me to get back on the saddle - thanks
Please don’t call this message “a rant”, or apologise for it, it speaks volumes and needs to be heard!
As a female cyclist I have experienced similar situations, from being pushed up hills without permission, to having my brakes changed for me during a pit stop, or even just told to slow down...
Thank you for sharing!
I think that it’s difficult to say whether someone is being condescending or not sometimes. We overthink a lot because we know ‘it happens’ and can become over sensitised. What happened here has happened to me many a time as a black man from walkers and riders who are trying to strike up some form of friendly verbal intercourse and often from my perception feel awkward about what to say. I’ve been riding most of my adult life one way or another and condescension and disdain has kept me out of clubs and group riding although I was faster and more powerful than a lot of them. Even struck up a conversation with a group I caught up with until the club leader came up next to me, spoke to the riders on my left to pick up the pace like i wasn’t there and tried to accelerate the group away. She was a woman. I had the satisfaction of dropping them instead. I have recovered from GBS a couple years ago and had to relearn my riding skills. I still have power and endurance, but unreliably so and I find that I can overthink even more so I respond with humour and 95% get good humour back. Not to say that what you experienced wasn’t as you say, but why should you let it matter? You’re most likely at LEAST as good as him and perhaps he was trying to let you know he struggled, or that you couldn’t do it, in which case, “I’ve done it lots’ would have addressed both issues. Shrinking his testicles sufficiently if he is a chauvinist! Touching is inexcusable, I don’t think that’s help, I think that’s a man just finding an excuse to touch a woman.
Katie, I’m a huge fan of you and what you stand for but I think you have got this one slightly wrong. Please don’t allow the social media male bashing that is currently going on influence your thoughts, I genuinely don’t think this is a gender thing. I am a male and have had the same twat comments that you have had and the same hand on my back ... this is a bad human issue rather than a male patronising female issue.
Agree
I’ve had the same thing happen to me on a few rides. People think as I’m a big rider I can’t ride hard or know what I’m on about.
Ummm... No. Bloke here too. Basic courtesy & respect to keep our hands off women we don’t know. On or off a bike.
It’s not about all men and I say that. Just a few but it happens.
@@KatieKookaburra it does but I don’t believe this happens to you because you are a female which is the point you suggest in the vlog. I think these things happen because there are a lot of arseholes out there who are ignorant to their own ignorance
Perhaps the lad on the mountain bike was just trying a start a conversation in a clumsy way. As for being touched, well that's utterly out of order.
Agreed
Agree with this the first incident in this video seems so innocent. Get that a lot from male riders too usually older men its not meant anything bad by it at all its normally just being friendly. The rest is out of order though nobody should be touching you.
I think that’s spot on.
So basically its ok to insult all men using a derogatory term like mansplaining. Also, get over yourself. Maybe its your ego thats made something out of nothing?
The guy on the mountain bike I think was just trying to give advice I don't think gender was a factor, the other issues are fucked up and shouldn't be tolerated.
'That's a tough climb*" is not advice. At heart it's a clumsy conversation attempt. Like telling someone the water's cold when they are about to dive in.
As a club ride lead I push people back into groups if they are lagging, slightly different scenario and this is for both genders, people do get arsey about it but we have to slow the group or kick them out otherwise. I don’t think the bloke here was man-splaining as I don’t think it’s a comment specific to women, he’d have probably said it to Tom Pidcock if he was at the bottom, it’s just the usual cyclist banter I think.
Ady... club rides were my instance of help, also to get me back on... in KK's cases though it is hard for us to judge as we did not hear the actual comment... but given that she seems a level headed lass, and it has somewhat riled her, I expect there was a bit if tone in his comment.
On a group ride when training sometimes I push/touch people to let them know I am there. Man woman it doesn’t matter it’s a survival thing.
I might have misunderstood Katie’s story, but I don’t think this person was in her group, but rather just a stranger. I certainly wouldn’t want anyone to give me a push, let alone a stranger, simply because I’m there to ride up, not to be pushed up, even if I’m slow. I would voluntarily kick myself out of a group where I’m lagging all the time (maybe that’s why I don’t like big group rides).
Thanks for sharing - good stuff and courage to put it out there too. Anyone who thinks people are too sensitive... instead just think of something encouraging to say.
On top of what you mention, as a male I experience this too - both from men and women. Most of the time when I ride outside I'm training, which typically means I'll combine intervals where I ride fast with rest intervals where I ride incredibly slow. It therefore happens a lot that I pass people riding fast, and they overtake me when I'm in my rest interval. The amount of both males and females who just have to comment about what I'm doing is totally crazy.
In races it gets even worse... the amount of 'experts' that are trying to tell you want to do is just nuts. Typically it's either a male who thinks he's better than he actually is, or a woman who tries to 'solo' away from other females and yelling at me telling me what to do.
Granted, there are more men than women in cycling, so in absolute numbers the vast majority of this issue is with men. To me, relatively speaking both men and women are equal part of the issue.
I often watch your videos and you have a natural way of talking to the camera but I was really quite cross about this as you have used half a dozen words that someone said as part of a greeting to you to make a video about mansplaining. People (male and female) say awkward or stupid or patronising or trite things all the time, perhaps more so in the current climate.
I'll only give advise if I'm asked for it, and I'd only ever touch someone I'm friends with / relationship with. Touching a complete stranger is a big NO NO. I honestly don't understand why people think it's acceptable.
I've been on the receiving end of unwanted advise & unfortunately unwanted touching at work. Unfortunately as a man, I didn't feel it was the best thing to do to call out the woman who did it. This was years ago now, and whilst it's encouraged more, I still have apprehensions about how to deal with it, if it happened again.
I'm sorry you have had to experience these things, it's such a shame and brings a cloud over the sport we love.
Keep up the good work, really enjoying the videos, and especially love the progress you are making in MTB (I'm a Mountain Biker), just keep going you & keep "shredding" 👍
The exact same thing happened to me riding out of Kildale up onto the Cleveland Way last Sunday by a woman. I laughed it off politely and thought nothing of it.
Maybe she was womansplaining? You should of said something.....
@@jav.611 LOL
@@jav.611 Or more likely it 100% never happened
Well said Katie. I'm shocked that this kind of condescending behaviour exists in 2021. Good on you for raising awareness of such unwanted comments and behaviour.
I've had blokes tell me similar things when at bottom of climbs, (I'm male) and plenty of blokes telling me my gearings wrong ect.. Certainly not limited to males speaking to women. There are just patronising people about, most of whom im sure dont mean to sound condescending. Don't let it bother you.
YES I was nodding along with everything in this video - everything you described has happened to me! And the pushing thing is just incomprehensible. I'm not used to physical contact on the bike so it's freaked me out whenever I've had a push from a random man - if it had been when I was new to road cycling I would probably have panicked and fallen off. I see a few men here comment that men have given them unwanted advice (my partner has also been patronised on the bike before) but I bet very few male cyclists have felt an unwanted hand on their back before. It's just SO ICKY!
In all honesty if that puts you off cycling or anything in life, you're not going to make it. I really think certain people need to be a lot mentally stronger.
First ride out with a club in Ireland local club ,older guy was far to forthcoming with advise that i needed to lose the rack from my bike and the rear guard if i wanted to keep up with the group , rather than welcome me as a new rider , consequently last time i rode with that club !
Great message, as a male triathlete I am lucky enough to train with many fantastic women athletes. Unfortunately too many have similar experiences and I couldn’t agree more with ur point! Keep enjoying the ride and know that not all of us are like that. Every athlete should step up and stop it when they see it!
Thank you for the video and topic Katie. As a man I can’t imagine how these seemingly small things must add up. I appreciate the open way you presented it too.
Yep, that´s what I thought, too.
Thanks so much for this. I had a man put his hand in my back, going downhill in the rain in my first year of cycling. I was TERRIFIED and told him to stop. He told me he knew what he was doing. I said well I don't! He wouldn't talk to me for the rest of the ride 🙄
Happily in general the lads in my club are super and very respectful though.
It is scary those destabilising forces. Bad enough with this wind we've been having in the UK. Pulses of wind almost blew my bike over!
I totally agree with you on all points. I also am waiting for the day that men will protest against gf's and wife's constantly nagging men literally to death in some cases.....as a source of control and emotional manipulation to keep a man or husband under the thumb. There is so much mental and emotional abuse to men these days...…and women just get away with it and its all the mans fault. If a women hits a man or psychologically abuses him its seen by society as funny and taken not seriously. This is terrible and needs to be addressed in society. One day we will look back and this will be recognised.
I've lost count of the number of times this has happened. Never even crossed my mind that it was related to my gender.
As someone who has said things that could be interpreted in a way I did not intend, try not to take it personally or derive too much meaning. While I agree that too many folks think their opinion is so important that it must be shared, there are also a lot of folks that get misunderstood. It is good to think critically - what did they mean and why did they say it - but unless we are mind readers it is helpful to avoid excessive speculation. Was the comment so horrible that it was worth getting upset over? Could the comment be interpreted as "that's a rough hill climb - good luck" (and does "good luck" mean "you're not fit enough" or "I hope you make it"?) Finally, I am aware that I violated the "my opinion must be shared" - feel free to ignore me - you won't hurt my feelings.
Well said
Katie I’m sorry you had this experiences and thank you so much for talking about it! I hope some eyes are opened by your sharing! Love your content - thank you for making it! My husband’s started doing audaxs a few years ago and is hoping to do the PBP in 2023 I have watched a few of your videos in the past few days that I’m going to recommend to him and as a super novice cyclist they help me a lot too!
Haven’t experienced this in cycling yet as I’m fairly new to taking it more seriously, but I’ve had it when running. It was really obvious one day when I crewed my friend round a marathon. She was being paced by her male friend and the amount of blokes who heckled things like “keep it up, you’ve nearly caught him” just got fucking boring! Without exception, every comment was from a man. It wasn’t threatening in any way, but that one day showed the sense of entitlement men feel they have to make comments to women they don’t know.
Men giving advice to other men and women, and women giving advice to men and women. I'd hope the majority is not meant in a condescending way.
Also ridden with a women who thought it was ok to hold onto the back of my saddle while riding. I told her not to and she thought it was funny.
I do everything I can not to go anywhere near her anymore.
On a lighter note, i was on a group ride with quite a few others, both men and women. near the end we were riding over some undulating lumps when i started falling back through the group. i felt a hand on my back and was grateful for the help, when i turned round to say thanks it was Dan Lloyd lol, legend
As a middle aged man I just say “Hiya” and carry on at my own pace regardless of sex and age as I don’t want to be miss interpreted as having anything other than good intentions.
A hiya is all anyone asks for. Someone stopped and an "everything ok?" is also reasonable.
I had another female cyclist tell me in a group ride that it was okay if I wanted to turn back and not continue with the ride. This was a no drop ride with a sweeper in which I was keeping the advertised minimum pace. It was a discouraging and hurtful comment to me as a newish rider that I’ll never forget.
One get comments like this from time to time and as man I get them too. I think in the rarest cases they are meant disparagingly, but friendly. One should not make the mistake of interpreting too much into those statements. If in doubt, you can ask the person frankly how the statement was meant. You are a strong cyclist and should never take such comments personally, in case of doubt you can put arrogant gentlemen in their place in a sportive way.
I'm an older guy and if I get comments I just take it as someone trying to be friendly. People are not all blessed with great social skills so I try not to read too much into it.
Thanks for putting your feelings out there so frankly. If it gets us all thinking about the things we say and do, and the way they are perceived by the recipient, it is a great thing. Good on ya!
Tired of this matter, really. No matter the action, you never get it right, even if it is 100 % just a kind act.
Hi Katie, very interesting video and yes I am a bloke, not that should make any difference of course. I think you hit the nail on the head when you made the point that it’s the manner in which things are said and done ie patronising or sarcastically etc the way you described it and no doubt there are many blokes that are doing what you say with that in mind which is clearly out of order. I suppose the only rider on that is that I do consider that some of these new social media terms such as mansplaining should in my opinion be treated with some caution due to the risk of misunderstanding. For example, I have often seen blokes fall off their bikes in the Tour de France and other keen cyclist blokes give them a push to get them started and back in the game etc so is it that they are definitely doing that because you are a woman or because you are a fellow cyclist within the cycling community and they are actually trying to treat you as an equal. I suppose you can only judge that by the exact circumstances on the day. Another example is I recently as a bloke mentioned to very close female friend about some of the risks when walking in certain secluded area alone with a small dog when dark. I wasn’t thinking anything anything other than about her safety as through previous work I had knowledge of the risks and it didn’t go down well due to the male female argument. Only a couple of months later I got a call to say that two young teenagers in all dark clothing with faces covered had just tried to rob her in an area that was even less secluded. She also told me that she hated driving in winter conditions and I offered to help with some practice in skid control and recovery etc as again I had practical experience of this as have countless numbers of female professional drivers and again it was refused I believe to a large extent because of the whole male offering a female advice etc and during the next cold snap in icy conditions she did a 180 turn and ended up on the opposite side of the road.
I hope you and your followers can see this for what it is, just my opinion, I completely respect women and everyone regardless based on who they are as a person and nothing else, and you have raised some really valid points that I am sure are very much issues that need changing, but just wanted to throw it out there how things can get clouded where people are just trying to help because they care and it gets lost in the whole mans reaction or contact with women situation. I imagine the highly sensitive could even interpret this comment as mansplaining. All I can say to that is it honestly is not. It’s just one guy who happens to be a bloke providing an opinion.maybe the real target of criticism should be the type of low life who tries to rob a lone female or male or anyone else regardless for that matter, but without doubt the points you raise are very valid ones. Thank you and great content as always happy cycling 🙂
So from him saying “ you have a long way to go , it’s a long way to the top” you get that he was implying that you were not capable? That’s sad that you think he mean that. Why not think he meant ITS A LONG WAY TO THE TOP AND ITS A LONG WAY.
While every situation/experience is different, sometimes a push is just a push. I was in bike racing for over 25 years, and I both received and gave pushes numerous times in races over the years when gaps would open, and I also saw it happen many other times. And this was all guys, so obviously wasn't some sexist thing. But yeah, that was in races, among guys. On training/recreational rides, especially when there is more mixing of men and women, it's a different thing. Only one push I gave comes to mind, and that was helping a guy up a small hill because he was trying to beat a certain time on a 100 mile organized ride, and he was struggling. And just now I remember an instance on a group training ride where a guy from another team gave himself a push-off to accelerate using my leg as his push-off point. Put his hand on my leg to push himself forward. This pissed me off so much that I later rode up next to him and told him if he ever tried that again I'd ride him off the road and into a ditch.
I’m new to this UA-cam thing :) and I’m a woman working in the cycling industry for over 8 years. I’ve worked in sales and in mechanics. Congrats on your channel first of all. :) I will certainly binge the vids haha. I can totally relate to your experience with mansplaining and being validated, especially when bike mechanics are concerned. I used to adopt diplomacy on most situations but all these years of alpha-male-pseudo-professional cyclist chat took its toll and I’m just not that polite anymore hahah. All the best
just got a road bike, Ribble endurance, im new to cycling and nearing 60, I feel a bit of a fool in the cycling shorts and im slow, as my fitness is low but improving, last time out a lady caught me up, not hard to do, and was very pleasant and helped me along the way, telling me best times to gear change I couldn't thank her enough, it helped this old un out immensely
I experienced some of the worst and ridiculous mansplaining situations in bike shops. As a woman you are seldom taking serious, and I'm so fucking tired of it. Thank you for pointing out the difference between unsolicited comments and being really helpful, when help is actually needed and wanted. I hope more people get to understand that.
Thanks so much! I notice that every woman who has commented has been in support and had thirds things happen to. Says a lot doesn’t it! Xx
Everyone experiences elitism at bike shops. Of tpu arent wealthy looking they treat you pike crap. Thats reality lady.
@@Nostalgiaforinfi Thank you, finally there is a guy who explains the lady how her reality looks like. Just understand, that women don't experience the world the same way you do.
Thank you!! I now hate bike shops for that reason. I cannot find one that is not patronising and actually listen when I speak and treat me as human being, and I live in London so I’ve tried a few. It’s infuriating when you add the constant abuse on the road, as well as the sexist crap on bike forums and general content.
Why shouldn't you be taken seriously?? You could be just as good as any man. Your a cyclist. Not a woman cyclist. People who think differently.... That's there problem
Many years ago I had sort of a similar experience but in a very different context.
I'm male, and was living just a block from NYC's Central Park at the time, where I'd ride the 10k loop 3-5 times each several times a week. I met up with a friend I'd ride with often, who raced while I didn't, and he brought along a young and attractive female friend of his whom I surmised by their interactions was either his latest girlfriend or someone he was interested in. He was on his road bike and she was on her inline skates, but was very fit and could easily keep up with us. She seemed friendly and nice.
Anyway, he had to break off at a certain point so it was just her and me, and since I was riding a pretty decent pace she asked if she could use me to pace herself on her skates as she was training for a race, and of course I said sure, no problem. So off we went for a loop or two, but every now and then she'd touch my saddle and butt, and I couldn't tell if this was to steady or pace herself or keep from running into me, or "something else" if you know what I mean.
I didn't say anything as I figured that it was probably the former, and if it was the latter, well, I don't poach. Period. (Which with this particular friend, who is no longer a friend for unrelated reasons, came up more than once, but that's a whole other thing that's neither here nor there.) Eventually we parted and I think I only saw her once again, briefly. She was out of his life as fast as she was in it. But I later asked him about it and he said that I was being silly to even suspect that she was interested in me and that she was just pacing herself and this was a common practice with inline skaters when training.
I thought no more of it, but it did make me wonder just what the "rules" are when it's the other way around, a woman touching a man (or another woman if that's her orientation, or a man touching a man if that's his orientation). Clearly it's inappropriate for a man to touch a woman he doesn't know, or know that well, in such a manner, on or off the bike. But little is ever said when it's the other way around.
Now personally, I didn't really mind her touching me, and if there hadn't been anything between her and my friend I might have followed up on this in case it was more than just pacing. But given that there was something between them, even if mostly on his end, I just didn't go there, all the more because I can't really respect someone who's seeing your friend or knows that he's interested in them but also showing interest in you. That's wrong on so many levels.
Sorry if this doesn't really apply and isn't the same thing at all. It's one of those very small things that's kind of bugged me to this day. The things we choose to remember...
I remember being patronised by 3 club cyclists (male) a few years ago when I was on a bog standard bike doing a 100 mile challenge. What they didn't realise is I was cycling every day in all weathers and had the stamina of captain America & then proceeded to show them what a man twice their age could do on a bike . Very satisfying. There does seem to be some unwritten pecking order in the cycling world sadly.
I cycled past a female doing 🧘♀️ pre stretch exercises for her morning run on last bike pack trip. She was on the park bench overlooking a fantastic view accross the countryside.
When I got got upto her on me bike she was doing press ups on the bench and I said
WHAT A CRACKING VIEW FOR THE MORNING ! 🤣 I realised my error in the silence when she most likely thought I wasn't talking about the countryside . I'd just cycled up the hill a bit puffed and sometimes words don't come out quite how you wanted them to 🤣
Oh what to do now? Do I ask if a cyclist needs help when they are beside the road with a wheel out? What if that cyclist happens to be female, would I be in danger of “mansplaining”?
I think I’ll play safe and cycle by with a wave.
You can easily avoid giving offence by being kind and respectful. "Would you like any help?" No worries, have a great day!
@@CyclingMikey I am always polite but i am no longer confident of the response it may provoke.
I'm still hoping if I'm on my own with a mechanical that someone will come and offer assistance. There are still some of us out there 👍
Helen Millett I am the same . Who ever it is, it's appreciated that some one is offering help. Male, female or even the odd motorist has stopped and asked if I am ok in the past. A chat or a friendly "I am ok" has been the result and on more than one occasion they have been a saviour. But I think the option of the friendly wave is the best as I would hate to upset or offend anyone especially when I am offering genuine support.👍
What I hate is that this male v female gender issue is now entering cycling. If i'm out and I see a cyclist at the side of the road my first instinct is to ask if they are OK.. but now I have to consider if the person is a male or a female as I don't want to offend, sound patronising or condescending. We should just all be looking out for each other as we get enough hate from motorists close passing us.. I even had a Parcelforce driver spit at me when he passed me on a country lane, luckily my head was down at the time and I only saw the spit on my shoulder after the van had gone past.
We all have such a fantastic community but if we fall out with ourselves what's the point?
To all the people saying Katie is overreacting. She is not. I've had this all happen to me too. Not just a single time. Once had men that I was going past half wheeling me 8 times in THE SAME ride, not allowing me to pass. And it wasn't like a 4 hour+ ride.... Whenever I ride with my male friends, brother or dad this never ever happens. Getting those comments on almost every ride gets annoying quite quick I can assure you.
Alright the touching of a woman is a big F'ing no no and I absolutely agree with you on this. The comments are normal comments though, you read the talking down to women into it yourself, I Get those comments and I am a 6'5" male and I give those comments to my mates/men I see riding ' come on pick a gear any gear' . This is so far away from it being a man talking down to women thing. What your video does is basically scare men off of interacting with women in the same way we would to men, so it actually has the complete opposite effect we start being guarded and watching what we say which is basically being sexist. I will never ever touch a woman I don't know or even ones that I do unless it is warranted/welcomed but I won't ever stop having a laugh and treating women with the same respect I would a man just because some may read more into it than was ever intended.
I just relized that I'm a female and I do these kind of comments and I had no idea it could cause such effect! I actually think this is more related to personality types than gender. All those will always be extroverted people, introverts don't just give unwanted tips to random people.
Hmm that’s interesting that u thought it would have no affect. I think ur right but I think in this context it’s down to social intelligence (which hugely determines ur personality). When u give tips or advice to people u take the position of power. It’s whether these “tips” are actually justified or not. If not then then ur just doing it because u desire the position of power that u get from putting someone below u, which we can agree is wrong.
Now here’s the tricky part😂: if u can’t judge justification then ur not really in the wrong cuz u don’t know the consequences of what u are saying (this would be because of bad social intelligence)
By simply recognising how giving advice may be condescending then u can make better judgments on what to say.
In Katie’s situations the “advice” is definitely more to put themselves on a pedestal than it is to give real helpful constructive tips. At this point I wouldn’t even call them tips it’s to have position of power, which is condescending and so it’s wrong.
Obviously there a lot more to it than the “is it worth saying” idiom. But it still highlights the importance of justification that I talked about earlier.
FINAL IMPORTANT NOTE: Anyway be human and don’t analyse it like I just have. Just focus on being a nice person by treating everyone with respect and positivity. The rest should come naturally ❤️❤️✌️✌️
LOL!
Poor women. Us men never have anyone say jerky things as we ride by. Our lives are all smooth as silk with never a weird of troubling moment.
Thoughts and prayers that you recover from this.
BTW I cheerfully called out "passing on left" to a group of women who were taking up 2/3 of the path and had one reply "F%$k your left!" as the others laughed. I survived and didn't decide all women are like this..
If you watch the video you will hear me say I don't think all men are like this. Just a few. But don't you think that as you have had crap shouted at you we should all be a little nicer and kinder?
I live in Thailand. I'm an old guy and people of both sexes, though usually women, openly laugh as they go by on motorbikes. I just laugh, wave, and say hello in reply. Why bother to be offended because I don't think any offense is intended.
Only my opinion, I'm a male cyclist from the same area and I’ve had the same thing said to me a handful of times from both genders. I don’t agree that the person was being offensive sorry
It's called virtu signalling, and kk will lose subs if she is not careful.. Alienating her male viewers.
Hi Katie, I wanted to let you know that this happens with men too. Perhaps not the touching / pushing part, but definitely the macho-ness part. I’ve been riding for many many years for the enjoyment and pleasure, but a few years ago, a few times I rode with a group who completely put me off with their “know it all, I’m a better rider, best mechanic and competitive with the ultimate style in dress” behaviour.
Ever since, I only ride with a few mates I know well who are out to put in those miles with a smile and friendly banter.
Very sad outcome in my opinion. But I’m very happy now 😌
I recently paused to ask two young ladies if they needed help when they were at a junction looking at their phones. I thought they were checking directions and was willing to help them out.
They both looked at me with horror.
Such a shame this world has got so unfriendly. I wouldn’t have minded a “no thanks, we’re ok”. But assumptions were made and I was made out to be condescending or sexist.
Ahhh I will also stop and offer help! More of us cyclists should do that for sure.
Hate seeing so many comments condescending you for being "overly sensitive." It's like they're missing their own advice and in turn feeding the issue :/ Please just listen guys. It's her story.
Context is everything. He may of fancied you 🤷🏼♂️ and thought it a way to get to know you, no matter how nervous and poorly thought out his approach was, it's an awkward situation. You are well with in your rights to take anything how ever you feel, and yes you do not need a me to tell you thatl, but respectively intent is key and so important to define. There is a thin line between who the interaction is intended to benefit and at times it could be intended genuinely to be mutual. He could just be being kind and freindly. But it should only take one time for you to smile and say 'I am all good thank you, thanks for your concern, but I have done it many times, take care enjoy your ride" to make things clear. Casting men as wrong doers for volunteering support is dangerous ground. I often offer advise to all manner of people, but always keep in mind they have no clue who the chuff I am. Not everyone's social skills are dialled in and can sometimes be communicated awkwardy and come across ill-judged. It is arguably harder for women in these situations to start off from an understanding of goodwill, but it certainly can be also argued many 'bad apple' men have tainted the normality of gender interaction for the rest of us. 2p🤷🏼♂️
I think you may be taking it too personal. If another female cyclist gave you the same advice, would you have felt irritated? Most people don't know what you don't know. And some people think they know everything when they really don't know as much as they think. Its a people thing, not a female cyclist not being competent thing. I'm sure you're a great rider, but I'm 100% sure someone else is going to give advice on another ride you go on. Other people don't know what you know unless you tell them...or show them.
You have ownership of your sport. That is so incredibly important. People may not think that pointing out that you're at the start of a climb, pushing you off the line, doubting your understanding of the equipment that you use - whatever it may be - that that's a big deal. But those off-the-cuff comments or actions chip away at the ownership someone has over their sport. Too often this happens to women, often at the start or early on in their journey, and has much deeper, long term effects on female participation and excellence in sport. Thanks for sharing Katie.