Some of the most comfortable seats in the country were on the SWR Class 158/159s. The legroom wasn't all that, but those big, red, plush, bouncy seats . . . Perfect for the long journeys out of Waterloo and down to Salisbury, Winchester and beyond.
I agree, these are one of a few trains I can fall asleep on for most of the Exeter - London Waterloo route. My only complaint from these trains is the table height, a bit too low for me, but this isn't the case for most people since I'm fairly tall and wide.
I used to regularly fall asleep on these on my commute from Woking to Salisbury. So much so that I once missed my stop, ended up in Tisbury, and didn't make it back to my office until 11.15am! So maybe we SHOULD make the seats a little less comfortable 😂
It's also about legroom. The seats on Voyagers are much thicker than the Faisa Lean, which means that for the same seat pitch (ie, distance from one seat back to the next) you're losing maybe an inch or two of legroom. One mitigation for that is to have thicker seat cushions, even if the backs don't have as much padding.
Yep - I can't imagine any conversations like: Train company: Hi, we'd like some nice comfy train seats please seat maker: Yes, we can do that TC: fireproof too SM: No, can't do that....
I do agree with your point about media coverage CrossCountry routes are some of longest in the country, and if you're travelling between two cities in the UK other than London, the chances are you either WILL be, or COULD be, travelling with CrossCounty But their overcrowding issues get a fraction of the coverage that Avanti's got despite affecting more people - it's just that it those people don't live in London
The design of the train should allow people to *REST* and *NAP* That includes the seating and ambience/lighting I quite like the seats of Crosscountry's voyagers (Chiltern's 168s are divine), on my weekly 3h journeys from 7am they are amazing to catch up on a little bit of rest right before an intense day, no intense lighting, comfortable seats, rather adequate legroom: The new interiors just give me a ick of "HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO REST ON THIS AFTER A LONG DAY AND LONG WEEK"
7:22 these seats are fitted on Czech Railways' 2nd class in the newest long distance trains and in some regional trains 1st class. I think that the Slovak Railways use them for their newest 1st class products. I can say from experience that they're quite comfortable, imo little better than what ICEs have, largely thanks to the headrests. They have a nice ergonomic design, comfy even when not reclined. The nice thing about them is that when they're not reclined they're quite hard but when they're reclined they're very soft, so you can choose.
Still remember getting a peek inside the Scotrail 156s (thankfully didn't have to travel on one) and got jumpscared by ironing boards which I would imagine they got when refurbished to meet PRM requirements. The 385 seats are bad enough already but on the 156s you could be traveling for as much as 5 and a half hours. Good luck to anyone traveling on those.
So disappointed by the voyager refurb - travelling crosscountry is usually a terrible experience, the only redeemable feature is that seats (on the rare occasions that you get one) are much comfier than equivalents on other trains
Yesterday my TFW Mark 4 service from Manchester to Cardiff broke down while leaving Shrewsbury, with us getting pushed onto a class 197 and the degradation of the ambiance and comfort onboard was immediate and quite shocking. Although I was sat in first so can’t comment particularly on the actual experience of standard, at least on the surface the quality of the Mark 4 standard was incomparable and looked like a better first class ambience (of teamed with an appropriate seating layout) than you get in most first class compartments, especially on new trains like the 800 family. A real shame!
Having been on a few US trains (Only commuter rail systems) and having been on the GWR class 800 there is a stark difference between seat comfort. You can see how in older trains in the US (which need a lot of refurbishment and or replacement) have so much more comfort than something like the IETs. Being someone who likes a good comfortable seat there are so many options that they could've chosen but they chose those. Having lived in Oxford for a semester and having to take the bus almost every day, the seats on something like Oxford Bus Companies buses are surprising comfortable. Like just add a little more cushion and I am okay with sitting on those for a long period of time. Its wild how these choices are made without regard to comfort.
Yes, the new Oxford electric buses are really quite comfortable, though I don't know how long this will last for - leather quickly gets awkwardly slippery!
I might be the only person designed for the ironing boards, I'm small, I don't sit normally at all, and constantly fidget. As such the ironing boards are just like sitting on the floor, it's perfect! of course though, when "the type of person who doesn't mind the seat is the sorta person who's happy sitting on the floor" it is possibly the opposite of praise for a seat and says more about my inability to sit normally. I like that they're very compact and so it's generally easier to get a seat on the thameslink trains, admittedly helped by how long they are, and if you have an empty seat next to you it's easy to just sit sideways in a sorta curve with your feet dangling in the aisle (naturally having to move before stops0
Same kinda. I’m quite tall and yet find the seats on GWR’s IETs to not be noticeably uncomfortable (unless I’m trying to sleep), but I usually fidget and move around quite a bit.
It's an odd dichotomy that XCountry are going for something so garish on the outside and so dull and monochrome on the inside. Another thing that irritates me about so many designs is the doors. We have rules around doors having to have a contrasting colour to the body, to help people with visually impairments. XCountry do that really well at the moment (doors are pink, a bright colour that isn't used anywhere else on the train), whereas some others like Avanti get it badly wrong (on each carriage, one door is teal against white and the other is white against teal). At least the new design retains the bright colours but the bodywork around the doors looks so busy that it looks like it will dilute the benefits of the bright doors. Agreed that the seats are the only good thing about Voyagers!
Department for Transport specs demanded these types of seats in commuter trains especially, stack them and rack them for busy commuter train travel. This directive changed around 2022 when the focus shifted to off peak travel, however as you well know, it's too little too late for most travellers etc ...
The seats already on the Voyagers really are some of the best on the network and I do think they should be retained if possible, though a change to their layout is absolutely needed to align them better with windows and provide more table seats. Removing first class from the 170s is probably sensible in the grand scheme of things, but it doesn't address the real problem which is that the 170s are just entirely inadequate for the roles they do for XC. The routes currently served by 170s need voyagers and the routes currently served by voyagers could do with 9 coach IET variants. I'm of the (admittedly unpopular) opinion that the seats on the 800s are more comfortable than the Fainsa Lean seats, but that's just personal preference. I'll grant EMR that their journeys are mostly pretty short and so a Fainsa Lean is at the very least adequate - the five car trains however, what a complete and utter waste of time. What we really need is properly joined up thinking to make sure that services up and down the country are fit for purpose in both comfort and capacity, especially for long distance services where we should be far more strict on the standards we expect of an InterCity service, and far more broad in what we define as an InterCity service.
(While i am a czech and do not live in the UK, i do kind of care about the british trains) It seems like that DfT gives no sh*t about the fact that these seats are pretty much a torture to the passengers
Whereas České dráhy have done a pretty good job in recent years! While the different Panter units aren't all equally brilliant, the newest ones for Prague are laid out well, comfortable and stylishly designed, with tons of room in first class. The InterJet and ComfortJet are a little bit sterile for long distance trains perhaps, but my experiences with them both so far made it clear they are well thought out. Unfortunately they keep making the seats thinner and thinner, and these are not very comfortable anymore in 2nd class. Likewise, even the older CityElefants have enough space in both classes, with a particularly fancy upstairs first class section for such local/regionala services. New double deckers will probably not be able to match it. As for the RegioSharks, they seem quite fair, albeit also with the newest thinnest seats throughout.
RegioPanters are actually quite comfortable, compared to the 460 units they replaced I did not ride in ComfortJet, but i did ride in a pendolino: They're actually comfortable and with chill air thanks to the air conditioning
@@Jacobczechia14 RegioPanters are comfortable, but there are several different series including the InterPanters, they're each somewhat different. SC Pendolino is famous for being extremely stylish and comfortable, everyone i know who's ridden it had a great time. And i love using it when I can.
@@Jacobczechia14 yes, it's a fantastic way to provide a luxury train service for different passenger categories, and quite a few of the Czech people have less to spend than EU average so ČD has to keep fares considerably lower than DB and ÖBB for example - they do a great job providing good journeys and service at fairly reasonable prices to the average CZK haver. the InKarta discounts are also a good deal
It was reported by some media who attended the HS2 mock up that the seat is an all new unique design, so not a Fisa Lean or similar. I have also seen it reported there is a buffet car and large cycle area too. Must agree the colours are awful, and those bright white headache causing lights a worry.
the worst seats for comfort i've seen are the sydney regionals with the flipping seats trading all manner of comfort for a gimmick (not to mention them not having wifi, or outlets, or bathrooms, or tables)
Too be fair that's because the gov refuses to build the sodding high-speed rail lines to allow the rest to breath. Too busy with corruption and money grubbing as per usual.
Having travelled on many trains in UK, but NOT the GWR 800 series, I think 158/9’s were the best. They may well have been refurbished to a different standard by now. Probably the best were the 180’s, but apparently they are prone to problems. I travelled on the Prospector railcar from Perth to Kalgoorlie and back in one day, and the seats and legroom were excellent. In NZ the three tourists trains have very good seats as well, far exceeding any train I have travelled on. Sad to hear the general offering on British trains is sub optimal.
Most 158s and 159s still have their original interiors, and they are indeed excellent. I’ve heard very good things about the Prospector, I’ll have to try it if I ever find myself in Australia.
The seats on the X2000 in Sweden are incredible. The standard class seats are more comfortable than any first class in the UK, at least in my experience. This is partly due to a more generous loading gauge, no doubt - wider seats and better armrests. But it is mostly due to the material, padding and angle of the seats themselves, as well as the softly lit and carpeted decor of the carriage. The contrast between this and, for example, the clinical bright lighting and rigid seats on an 801 is outrageous. We should really demand better as customers.
luckily HS2 has a larger loading gauge, so HS2 only services with bigger trains and better seats are possible NPR also has a larger loading gauge for the new sections potentially connecting with HS2
they should use something similar to ICE seats and similar interior. other things from the ICE that should be included in HS2s trains are for example the color-changing lights which adjust to the current time of day. 9:08 oh and, ICE3s often run in double units (16 coaches)
10:33 Wait a second, they set up a commission to work out seat comfort and the result was the Lumo seat (which I approve of) AND the Avanti seats?! The new Avanti seats are horrible and I hated riding from Crewe back home to London on them! No idea how they slipped through the approval without some refs being bribed here and there... I mostly agree with the rest of what you said. I think overall the best seats for regional services are the Grammer ones fitted for 185s and 350s. They should be the standard for those kinds of services as well as shorter regional/longer commuter trains. The Lumo ones should be the standard for intercity services. Make the FISA Lean into a FISA Dream...
Haha. The Lumo and Avanti seats are actually the same, but Lumo's seem softer, possibly because of the seat covering? If you're looking for scandals, Northern set up a few demonstrators at stations before introducing the 195s, but ultimately chose the least popular with the public (Fainsa ironing boards)!
@@GWVillager Interesting because the TfW 197s actually have decent seats (about the only thing decent about a 197), they use a heavily upgraded version of the seats from the LNER/GWR 80x
I think it will be interesting to see how people take to the new EMR trains. They are replacing trains that are to most people's minds still fairly new, if getting a bit tired, and are generally regarded as the most comfortable of long distance trains of their generation. Ok, they will run under electric power for some of the time, but the vast majority of passengers are going to have them running as diesels for at least part of the trip. I've yet to see what if any journey time improvements are to be expected, especially given the 222s are already rapid off the mark, plus it seems doubtful the new trains will be as fast as a Meridian once off the wires, especially that long hilly drag to and from Sheffield.
The main thing is capacity. The 222s are completely inadequate, and whilst the 5 car decision was stupid, the 810s will offer much more space that should be well received.
Do You travel on board of 222 recently? - Dirty windows, collaped seats... Looks really awfull - this is because delay od 810, operator not replace anything until broken. They need refurbishment ASAP. But anyway, they will get new interiors (refurbishments starts next year). PS.Sheffield-Chesterfield is limited to 90MPH, easy for diesel mode of 810. Chesterfeld - East Midlands Parkway - up to 110MPH, but mostly flat - no problems.
Great video! Glad we're bringing attention to this. But, are we OK with the idea of Great British Railways standardising designs? For seats and lighting, yes, if to ensure comfort, but I don't want our railway to lose all of the colours and diversity we have now.
At least Great Northern are having the Class 379s from storage and the seats probably won’t be replaced for a while. Not all new trains have horrible seats that does make your back ache.
Solidarity from Los Angeles. I hope England can improve its rail network to give people there service they deserve. I'm also jealous seeing all these train lines since here in America, we're lucky for any scraps we get in terms of rail service. Los Angeles does have regional rail that is legitimately improving service, but the metro service itself is only good if you manage to look at it from very specific angles.
Seat comfort is actually something that US train operators get right. The seats on Metrolink are probably better than most standard class seats on UK inter-city trains. Though Metrolink is running commuter services that rival UK inter-city services in length. LA-Lancaster is almost 2 1/2 hours and LA-San Bernidino is 2 hours on a stopper and 80mins for a peak time express. Amtrak coach seats on the Amfleets and superliners are better than most first class seats in the UK, though the new Venture cars have been criticized for less comfortable seats.
My thoughts exactly. Can you imagine somebody mentioning this very thing to the Civil Service types on the "Commission" . . It would be like trying to explain popular culture to a High-Court judge. "Mr Bex-Bissel, . . Really. ! Who is this Mr Re-Caro, and what does he do for a living ?"
i think the Cardiff to Nottingham services should be operated by voyagers at the least maybe HSTs but cross country got rid of their HSTs last year so HST's on the route won't happen but cross country should get the class 222 from EMR when they become redundant increasing capacity on their routes and allowing them to use voyagers on Cardiff to Nottingham services
Lucky if the service runs x c always cancelling the Cardiff service yet west of England runs almost normal x c doesn't care about Welsh service s won't be surprised if the first day of the new Cardiff Edinburgh service if the service is cancelled !!
Had the misfortune to spend the last three hours of my holiday on an LNER Azuma. Never again, I’d rather travel by coach even though the journey time is nearly twice as long.
I hate the new seats on the newer trains that aren’t as comfortable and I have experienced lots of back aches. The older trains had much better comfortable seats.
If HS2 is only ever built to Birmingham that will be a 30 minute trip, not much point to a first class or any sort of lounge or buffet car. XC aren't the only ones that love long distances on tiny DMUs, TfW is legendary for using 2 car 197s for runs between Cardiff and Holyhead, which is nearly 4 hours, 2 car 197s where the single toilet is broken more often than not. Though the seats on the 197s aren't awful, they use an upgraded version of the standard class seats from the 80x
The department for transport and ‘great British railways’ nationalisation thing need to get a move on. I don’t understanding why we are specifying new trains and in fact buying new trains still individually for each TOC. The public don’t care what colour the train is, we just need national standards that can apply to all new/ about to be refurbished trains. For example, all intercity trains moving forward can have one nicely designed interior for all the franchises. Stops us paying for each individuals TOCs branding and design and ensures a good design moving forward
Why doesn't HS2 Ltd. save even more money, and just fit their new trains with Lazzerini Urban 'Compact' instead? That could be millions of pounds worth of savings before a single train has even moved!
Two words - loading gauge. Part of the reason why the UK rail network struggles with good interior rolling stock is we have a unique small loading gauge. This means we cannot take tried and tested trains from Europe. We also can’t take tried and tested seats either as they are too wide and therefore can’t fit 2+ 2 seating. I’d really like the same seats as on ICE neo but truth is they are just too wide to fit easily.
Worst train seats ever (except wooden bench ones): Class 700. Best train seats ever: DSB IC3 (Denmark). Their standard class feels like 1st. I do agree that HS2 should be aiming for ICE 3 Neo level, or Italian HSR standards, but I fear we won't get that.
A massive issue I find with newer rollingstock is the lighting it’s absolutely awful especially at night with a reflection you can’t see out the window pas and it’s almost enough to give you a headache
The X of Cross Country gets me dribbling with first class fury as it is! That aside, the livery has been trying too hard for too long and is too busy as you say. 3:21 It's not too far from the classic run before being able to walk addition of agrandising words, best of all "International", airports all the more laughable! Cross country - clue's in the name ought by now to be more sure of itself so that it doesn't have to look like a spillage on the floor of a cake decorations factory, nor arguably to submit the user to nightclub metropolitan cool striving monochrome impracticality. If I were a regular traveller on the service, I might not be sure to clean my muddy gumboots (yes.., other passengers are available) nor certain that I was bound for Totnes rather than Tottenham.
Try travelling on the awful 197 units used on long distance and not so long distance trains . awful rough riding units with horrible seats are not good to travel on but better than the abysmal iet units
SBB has horrible seats in the Flirt train and in all other Stadler trains. In case of the Giruno train you could be seating in ironing boards for 8 hours.
I know we're a tiny demographic, but for people with kyphoscoliosis, even the absolute best train seats still aren't great for longer journeys. I always get confused when someone describes a train seat as comfortable before remembering that my spine is entirely the wrong shape for sitting in general (especially given I'm also fairly tall and have never had enough legroom). If anyone knows of anyone who sells anything to make chairs comfy, please tell me.
Trains historically have yellow on the front to ensure high visibility so they ought to be exempt from comments on colour scheme, seeing as yknow it’s for safety and that
i really like the current crosscountry livery, the new one is shit the seats look exactly like the gwr hst in standard, but i still think the existing seats should be used like avanti
I still don't get why no-one has implemented the same seats as on DB intercity trains (the blue cloth ones with pillows). They're by far the most comfortable seats on the entire Dutch railway network, and they operate just one line here! Almost all of our (NS) trains have awfull rockhard ironing boards covered in fake leather. Such a waste.
Amtrak's very quickly going the Way of the UK with shitty seats in their Venture cars built by Siemens. Lots of people dislike them, and prefer the current seats in the Amfleet/Horizon coaches.
Train interiors were sorted out in the 1930s. Ironing boards are not uncomfortable if the profile is correct. The information has been known and freely available for the past 70 years 😂
Meanwhile, in the US Amtrak tries to gaslight us into thinking the Venture seats are great! And people online repeat something to the effect of “they’re good enough for German interregional trains, they’re good enough for Amtrak.” My take as someone not in Europe is that not everything European train builders do is a good idea and I’m sure they are partly to blame along with someone being cheap. Seeing as how we keep eating to import Eurotrash, I blame Siemens. The back pain my 30 year old back suffered on the San Joaquin took it personally.
Siemens make superb trains and European stock was once exceedingly comfortable. However, new EU regulations post-2014-ish have meant that you can no longer fill seats with mountains of padding, and sadly this seems to include exported stock as well. Without meaning to insult, it might also have something to do with Americans’ weight? Virtually all European seats (including in the UK) are designed for the 50th percentile German female, with the 95th percentile German male just about accommodated before the cushion collapses and becomes hard. Naturally, she will need considerably more “give” in the seat cushions than most Americans, so the seats may simply not be able to provide comfortable ergonomics? You’d think the manufacturer would have thought of this, though.
The new cross country trains don’t seem to meet accessibility standards regarding contrast between seats, flooring and tables either! That is needed for visually impaired people. Just another Avenue to complain
I have to disagree with you on the current cross country seats. They're so uncomfortable and unnecessarily big and clunky, consuming a lot of space and giving nothing back in comfort for the space that they take. I'm always disappointed when I need to travel via cross country as their carriages are absolutely awful, the digital seat displays are stupid and it's always a battle to get just a small sized suitcase in and out of the overhead storage. I'm unsure what seats the LNER Avanti use (apologies if you said in the vidoe) but they're slim, providing more leg room and perhaps more seating (something there is never enough of on a cross country) and in my opinion they're so much more comfortable dispite their slim profile. Obviously comfort is a personal preference so we all have our own opinion 😊
CrossCountry have no idea who lives in Towns Like Oakham. Why is the Stansted to Birmingham Route Through Oakham? I get a lot of overcrowded trains with XC from Oakham to Leicester and Birmingham, and i Do not get why they have not bothered upgrading their 170s to Class 220/221's for such a Ridiculous amount of people in a 3 carriage Train.
ICE interiors (and the old dosto RE car interiors) are basically the only good thing about German railways 😂 Honestly though, most train interiors are becoming decidedly mediocre everywhere. Just look at the Dutch double decker IC sets or the Italian high speed trains, most of them have pretty pathetic seats.
Ok as Indonesian, seeing this, i don't think the train operators know what they doing, it's seem UK train operators "most" of them didn't know how to design the train interior, how the hell you got that thin seat and cramped leg room not to mention very bad window alignment with that amount of ticket prices? Might as well just place a garden benches inside the train if the seat that thin, It will understandable if the ticket prices is very cheap, but it's not, it's not cheap but you got that? Seriously? if i have to pay that much for Intercity train for over 5 hours, and got that bad of interior, i will be so annoyed the entire journey😅
10:50 Who employs these failing designers? What is the foundation upon which they base their error, witting or unwittingly forced on us though it be? Two simple/simplistic answers spring up like the plushly dusty Bakerloo line no-nonsense time worn seat cushions of old. First, the people who foist such blatantly bottom of the class cheap products on a public with a tiny chance to give a TOC competitor the train fare next time, care not for their fellow travellers and looking at the recent rash of unedifying examples of such stupidity, seem not to have to use such trains themselves. Secondly, they must come adorned with extra cushioning comfort of their own already attached to their person. Yes I'm unimaginably λξxχ / insert whatever name you want to put there but dozy or adeposey are my current contenders.
I honestly perhaps 🤔 think 🤔 💭 that the trains 🚆 🚊 🚂 are probably a in a good 👍 😌 😊 interior is because they must be refurbished. I honestly like 👍 ❤️ trains 🚂 🚊 🚆 is because it’s nice 👌 😊 👍 and warm inside them. I suppose that inside the trains 🚂 🚊 🚆 can 👌 become dirty after they’ve previously been refurbished is because a lot of people use the trains 🚂 🚊 🚆 every day is that hairs could fall out from people’s heads to the floor and all sorts of other things like ❤️ 👍 that. If people feel cold 🥶 inside the trains 🚂 🚊 🚆 , they can 👌 wear coats 🧥, scarves 🧣, gloves 🧤 and strong 💪 shoes 🥿 🥿 👞 👞 👟 👟 to warm themselves up 🔝 ⬆️ 🆙. 👍
Some of the most comfortable seats in the country were on the SWR Class 158/159s. The legroom wasn't all that, but those big, red, plush, bouncy seats . . . Perfect for the long journeys out of Waterloo and down to Salisbury, Winchester and beyond.
They're still very much around!
I agree, these are one of a few trains I can fall asleep on for most of the Exeter - London Waterloo route. My only complaint from these trains is the table height, a bit too low for me, but this isn't the case for most people since I'm fairly tall and wide.
I used to regularly fall asleep on these on my commute from Woking to Salisbury. So much so that I once missed my stop, ended up in Tisbury, and didn't make it back to my office until 11.15am! So maybe we SHOULD make the seats a little less comfortable 😂
I doubt I’m the only one that doesn’t mind a longer journey for that extra comfort.
The downside to those are the armrests being quite low down, even for a moderately height person like me.
Scoliosis speedrun sitting on these seats
As somebody who actually has scoliosis i think under the EU accessibility act we can make a case against seats like it
Scoliosis cannot be caused by seats or the way you sit
Surely we can have decent seats which do meet fire safety. I think it's more about them being cheap rather than safety.
It's also about legroom. The seats on Voyagers are much thicker than the Faisa Lean, which means that for the same seat pitch (ie, distance from one seat back to the next) you're losing maybe an inch or two of legroom. One mitigation for that is to have thicker seat cushions, even if the backs don't have as much padding.
@@stevieinselby It's never for the legroom, it's to get an extra row or two of seats into a carriage.
Yep - I can't imagine any conversations like:
Train company: Hi, we'd like some nice comfy train seats please
seat maker: Yes, we can do that
TC: fireproof too
SM: No, can't do that....
I do agree with your point about media coverage
CrossCountry routes are some of longest in the country, and if you're travelling between two cities in the UK other than London, the chances are you either WILL be, or COULD be, travelling with CrossCounty
But their overcrowding issues get a fraction of the coverage that Avanti's got despite affecting more people - it's just that it those people don't live in London
The design of the train should allow people to *REST* and *NAP*
That includes the seating and ambience/lighting
I quite like the seats of Crosscountry's voyagers (Chiltern's 168s are divine), on my weekly 3h journeys from 7am they are amazing to catch up on a little bit of rest right before an intense day, no intense lighting, comfortable seats, rather adequate legroom: The new interiors just give me a ick of "HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO REST ON THIS AFTER A LONG DAY AND LONG WEEK"
7:22 these seats are fitted on Czech Railways' 2nd class in the newest long distance trains and in some regional trains 1st class. I think that the Slovak Railways use them for their newest 1st class products. I can say from experience that they're quite comfortable, imo little better than what ICEs have, largely thanks to the headrests. They have a nice ergonomic design, comfy even when not reclined. The nice thing about them is that when they're not reclined they're quite hard but when they're reclined they're very soft, so you can choose.
Still remember getting a peek inside the Scotrail 156s (thankfully didn't have to travel on one) and got jumpscared by ironing boards which I would imagine they got when refurbished to meet PRM requirements.
The 385 seats are bad enough already but on the 156s you could be traveling for as much as 5 and a half hours. Good luck to anyone traveling on those.
That picture from the HS2 reminds me - I must book my dental check up soon!
So disappointed by the voyager refurb - travelling crosscountry is usually a terrible experience, the only redeemable feature is that seats (on the rare occasions that you get one) are much comfier than equivalents on other trains
Conspiracy Theory time: XC are making the voyagers and 170s worse on purpose to reduce passenger numbers and mitigate overcrowding.
And the warm lighting, which they're also seemingly getting rid of.
Yesterday my TFW Mark 4 service from Manchester to Cardiff broke down while leaving Shrewsbury, with us getting pushed onto a class 197 and the degradation of the ambiance and comfort onboard was immediate and quite shocking.
Although I was sat in first so can’t comment particularly on the actual experience of standard, at least on the surface the quality of the Mark 4 standard was incomparable and looked like a better first class ambience (of teamed with an appropriate seating layout) than you get in most first class compartments, especially on new trains like the 800 family. A real shame!
Having been on a few US trains (Only commuter rail systems) and having been on the GWR class 800 there is a stark difference between seat comfort. You can see how in older trains in the US (which need a lot of refurbishment and or replacement) have so much more comfort than something like the IETs. Being someone who likes a good comfortable seat there are so many options that they could've chosen but they chose those. Having lived in Oxford for a semester and having to take the bus almost every day, the seats on something like Oxford Bus Companies buses are surprising comfortable. Like just add a little more cushion and I am okay with sitting on those for a long period of time. Its wild how these choices are made without regard to comfort.
Loved the video BTW and sorry for the Paragraph lol
Yes, the new Oxford electric buses are really quite comfortable, though I don't know how long this will last for - leather quickly gets awkwardly slippery!
I might be the only person designed for the ironing boards, I'm small, I don't sit normally at all, and constantly fidget. As such the ironing boards are just like sitting on the floor, it's perfect!
of course though, when "the type of person who doesn't mind the seat is the sorta person who's happy sitting on the floor" it is possibly the opposite of praise for a seat and says more about my inability to sit normally.
I like that they're very compact and so it's generally easier to get a seat on the thameslink trains, admittedly helped by how long they are, and if you have an empty seat next to you it's easy to just sit sideways in a sorta curve with your feet dangling in the aisle (naturally having to move before stops0
Same kinda. I’m quite tall and yet find the seats on GWR’s IETs to not be noticeably uncomfortable (unless I’m trying to sleep), but I usually fidget and move around quite a bit.
It's an odd dichotomy that XCountry are going for something so garish on the outside and so dull and monochrome on the inside.
Another thing that irritates me about so many designs is the doors. We have rules around doors having to have a contrasting colour to the body, to help people with visually impairments. XCountry do that really well at the moment (doors are pink, a bright colour that isn't used anywhere else on the train), whereas some others like Avanti get it badly wrong (on each carriage, one door is teal against white and the other is white against teal). At least the new design retains the bright colours but the bodywork around the doors looks so busy that it looks like it will dilute the benefits of the bright doors.
Agreed that the seats are the only good thing about Voyagers!
I cannot imagine CC interiors can get worse, I’ve done the 3.5 hours between Nottingham and Cardiff multiple times and I will never use them again.
Everytime I watch one of your videos, I have to question if we aren't actually the same person...?? I agree with basically everything you raise!
Department for Transport specs demanded these types of seats in commuter trains especially, stack them and rack them for busy commuter train travel.
This directive changed around 2022 when the focus shifted to off peak travel, however as you well know, it's too little too late for most travellers etc ...
The seats already on the Voyagers really are some of the best on the network and I do think they should be retained if possible, though a change to their layout is absolutely needed to align them better with windows and provide more table seats.
Removing first class from the 170s is probably sensible in the grand scheme of things, but it doesn't address the real problem which is that the 170s are just entirely inadequate for the roles they do for XC. The routes currently served by 170s need voyagers and the routes currently served by voyagers could do with 9 coach IET variants.
I'm of the (admittedly unpopular) opinion that the seats on the 800s are more comfortable than the Fainsa Lean seats, but that's just personal preference. I'll grant EMR that their journeys are mostly pretty short and so a Fainsa Lean is at the very least adequate - the five car trains however, what a complete and utter waste of time.
What we really need is properly joined up thinking to make sure that services up and down the country are fit for purpose in both comfort and capacity, especially for long distance services where we should be far more strict on the standards we expect of an InterCity service, and far more broad in what we define as an InterCity service.
(While i am a czech and do not live in the UK, i do kind of care about the british trains)
It seems like that DfT gives no sh*t about the fact that these seats are pretty much a torture to the passengers
Whereas České dráhy have done a pretty good job in recent years! While the different Panter units aren't all equally brilliant, the newest ones for Prague are laid out well, comfortable and stylishly designed, with tons of room in first class. The InterJet and ComfortJet are a little bit sterile for long distance trains perhaps, but my experiences with them both so far made it clear they are well thought out. Unfortunately they keep making the seats thinner and thinner, and these are not very comfortable anymore in 2nd class. Likewise, even the older CityElefants have enough space in both classes, with a particularly fancy upstairs first class section for such local/regionala services. New double deckers will probably not be able to match it. As for the RegioSharks, they seem quite fair, albeit also with the newest thinnest seats throughout.
RegioPanters are actually quite comfortable, compared to the 460 units they replaced
I did not ride in ComfortJet, but i did ride in a pendolino: They're actually comfortable and with chill air thanks to the air conditioning
@@Jacobczechia14 RegioPanters are comfortable, but there are several different series including the InterPanters, they're each somewhat different. SC Pendolino is famous for being extremely stylish and comfortable, everyone i know who's ridden it had a great time. And i love using it when I can.
Pendolinos even have a 1+2 seating in both classes
@@Jacobczechia14 yes, it's a fantastic way to provide a luxury train service for different passenger categories, and quite a few of the Czech people have less to spend than EU average so ČD has to keep fares considerably lower than DB and ÖBB for example - they do a great job providing good journeys and service at fairly reasonable prices to the average CZK haver. the InKarta discounts are also a good deal
It was reported by some media who attended the HS2 mock up that the seat is an all new unique design, so not a Fisa Lean or similar. I have also seen it reported there is a buffet car and large cycle area too. Must agree the colours are awful, and those bright white headache causing lights a worry.
In that case, I guess whoever did the render used the Fisa Lean as a placeholder
The TfW 158 seats will remain one of my faves!
They look like the ones from GWR HST's
My complaint about seats is how they end about shoulder height.
People over 5'5" would like some head support too.
the worst seats for comfort i've seen are the sydney regionals with the flipping seats
trading all manner of comfort for a gimmick (not to mention them not having wifi, or outlets, or bathrooms, or tables)
the old cross country seats were really nice
Despite the overcrouded horror that the Voyagers are, I do like the seats
Too be fair that's because the gov refuses to build the sodding high-speed rail lines to allow the rest to breath. Too busy with corruption and money grubbing as per usual.
Having travelled on many trains in UK, but NOT the GWR 800 series, I think 158/9’s were the best. They may well have been refurbished to a different standard by now. Probably the best were the 180’s, but apparently they are prone to problems.
I travelled on the Prospector railcar from Perth to Kalgoorlie and back in one day, and the seats and legroom were excellent. In NZ the three tourists trains have very good seats as well, far exceeding any train I have travelled on.
Sad to hear the general offering on British trains is sub optimal.
Most 158s and 159s still have their original interiors, and they are indeed excellent. I’ve heard very good things about the Prospector, I’ll have to try it if I ever find myself in Australia.
It will be interesting to seat what GWR does to the 157s from TfW as replacement for the Castle sets.
7:19 I think those seats you are talking about are the ‘Fainsa New Intercity Rail’
As "Der Weisse engel" said in Marathon Man . ."There's a simple choice to be made in life . . between discomfort and relief"
The seats on the X2000 in Sweden are incredible. The standard class seats are more comfortable than any first class in the UK, at least in my experience.
This is partly due to a more generous loading gauge, no doubt - wider seats and better armrests. But it is mostly due to the material, padding and angle of the seats themselves, as well as the softly lit and carpeted decor of the carriage.
The contrast between this and, for example, the clinical bright lighting and rigid seats on an 801 is outrageous. We should really demand better as customers.
I was hoping someone would mention the X2000 Seats !
luckily HS2 has a larger loading gauge, so HS2 only services with bigger trains and better seats are possible
NPR also has a larger loading gauge for the new sections potentially connecting with HS2
@@KingFinnch Yes, excellent point. It will be all the more missed opportunity if they do not use the extra space for better seats!
they should use something similar to ICE seats and similar interior. other things from the ICE that should be included in HS2s trains are for example the color-changing lights which adjust to the current time of day.
9:08 oh and, ICE3s often run in double units (16 coaches)
Avanti did do a very good job on keeping the original seats rather than the feza leans. But some of the avanti voyagers have been withdrawn… 4:48
Never mind, RTT lied to me, still fantastic trains nonetheless!
10:33 Wait a second, they set up a commission to work out seat comfort and the result was the Lumo seat (which I approve of) AND the Avanti seats?! The new Avanti seats are horrible and I hated riding from Crewe back home to London on them! No idea how they slipped through the approval without some refs being bribed here and there...
I mostly agree with the rest of what you said. I think overall the best seats for regional services are the Grammer ones fitted for 185s and 350s. They should be the standard for those kinds of services as well as shorter regional/longer commuter trains. The Lumo ones should be the standard for intercity services. Make the FISA Lean into a FISA Dream...
Haha. The Lumo and Avanti seats are actually the same, but Lumo's seem softer, possibly because of the seat covering? If you're looking for scandals, Northern set up a few demonstrators at stations before introducing the 195s, but ultimately chose the least popular with the public (Fainsa ironing boards)!
@@GWVillager Interesting because the TfW 197s actually have decent seats (about the only thing decent about a 197), they use a heavily upgraded version of the seats from the LNER/GWR 80x
FYI, the seats in most german Trains, including the ICE are made by Kiel Seating solutions.
I think it will be interesting to see how people take to the new EMR trains. They are replacing trains that are to most people's minds still fairly new, if getting a bit tired, and are generally regarded as the most comfortable of long distance trains of their generation. Ok, they will run under electric power for some of the time, but the vast majority of passengers are going to have them running as diesels for at least part of the trip. I've yet to see what if any journey time improvements are to be expected, especially given the 222s are already rapid off the mark, plus it seems doubtful the new trains will be as fast as a Meridian once off the wires, especially that long hilly drag to and from Sheffield.
The main thing is capacity. The 222s are completely inadequate, and whilst the 5 car decision was stupid, the 810s will offer much more space that should be well received.
Do You travel on board of 222 recently?
- Dirty windows, collaped seats... Looks really awfull - this is because delay od 810, operator not replace anything until broken.
They need refurbishment ASAP. But anyway, they will get new interiors (refurbishments starts next year).
PS.Sheffield-Chesterfield is limited to 90MPH, easy for diesel mode of 810. Chesterfeld - East Midlands Parkway - up to 110MPH, but mostly flat - no problems.
Great video! Glad we're bringing attention to this.
But, are we OK with the idea of Great British Railways standardising designs? For seats and lighting, yes, if to ensure comfort, but I don't want our railway to lose all of the colours and diversity we have now.
At least Great Northern are having the Class 379s from storage and the seats probably won’t be replaced for a while. Not all new trains have horrible seats that does make your back ache.
The 379s are pretty old! They're from before the new fire safety regulations.
@@GWVillager First entered service 2011.
Solidarity from Los Angeles. I hope England can improve its rail network to give people there service they deserve. I'm also jealous seeing all these train lines since here in America, we're lucky for any scraps we get in terms of rail service. Los Angeles does have regional rail that is legitimately improving service, but the metro service itself is only good if you manage to look at it from very specific angles.
Seat comfort is actually something that US train operators get right. The seats on Metrolink are probably better than most standard class seats on UK inter-city trains. Though Metrolink is running commuter services that rival UK inter-city services in length. LA-Lancaster is almost 2 1/2 hours and LA-San Bernidino is 2 hours on a stopper and 80mins for a peak time express. Amtrak coach seats on the Amfleets and superliners are better than most first class seats in the UK, though the new Venture cars have been criticized for less comfortable seats.
Trains need more dedicated wheelchair spaces and then fold up seats where needed. And stel free access
Surely Recaro could come up with something better
My thoughts exactly. Can you imagine somebody mentioning this very thing to the Civil Service types on the "Commission" . . It would be like trying to explain popular culture to a High-Court judge. "Mr Bex-Bissel, . . Really. ! Who is this Mr Re-Caro, and what does he do for a living ?"
i think the Cardiff to Nottingham services should be operated by voyagers at the least maybe HSTs but cross country got rid of their HSTs last year so HST's on the route won't happen but cross country should get the class 222 from EMR when they become redundant increasing capacity on their routes and allowing them to use voyagers on Cardiff to Nottingham services
Lucky if the service runs x c always cancelling the Cardiff service yet west of England runs almost normal x c doesn't care about Welsh service s won't be surprised if the first day of the new Cardiff Edinburgh service if the service is cancelled !!
Had the misfortune to spend the last three hours of my holiday on an LNER Azuma. Never again, I’d rather travel by coach even though the journey time is nearly twice as long.
About a day after the 7XX class variants came into service we named them the buttcutter.
I’ve heard the new Amtrak venture car seats are super uncomfortable
I hate the new seats on the newer trains that aren’t as comfortable and I have experienced lots of back aches. The older trains had much better comfortable seats.
If HS2 is only ever built to Birmingham that will be a 30 minute trip, not much point to a first class or any sort of lounge or buffet car. XC aren't the only ones that love long distances on tiny DMUs, TfW is legendary for using 2 car 197s for runs between Cardiff and Holyhead, which is nearly 4 hours, 2 car 197s where the single toilet is broken more often than not. Though the seats on the 197s aren't awful, they use an upgraded version of the standard class seats from the 80x
The department for transport and ‘great British railways’ nationalisation thing need to get a move on. I don’t understanding why we are specifying new trains and in fact buying new trains still individually for each TOC. The public don’t care what colour the train is, we just need national standards that can apply to all new/ about to be refurbished trains.
For example, all intercity trains moving forward can have one nicely designed interior for all the franchises. Stops us paying for each individuals TOCs branding and design and ensures a good design moving forward
Why doesn't HS2 Ltd. save even more money, and just fit their new trains with Lazzerini Urban 'Compact' instead? That could be millions of pounds worth of savings before a single train has even moved!
I don’t know why they didn’t just order some Velaros with some of the features of European trains like the ICE. Tried and tested rolling stock.
Two words - loading gauge.
Part of the reason why the UK rail network struggles with good interior rolling stock is we have a unique small loading gauge. This means we cannot take tried and tested trains from Europe. We also can’t take tried and tested seats either as they are too wide and therefore can’t fit 2+ 2 seating.
I’d really like the same seats as on ICE neo but truth is they are just too wide to fit easily.
Worst train seats ever (except wooden bench ones): Class 700. Best train seats ever: DSB IC3 (Denmark). Their standard class feels like 1st. I do agree that HS2 should be aiming for ICE 3 Neo level, or Italian HSR standards, but I fear we won't get that.
A massive issue I find with newer rollingstock is the lighting it’s absolutely awful especially at night with a reflection you can’t see out the window pas and it’s almost enough to give you a headache
The X of Cross Country gets me dribbling with first class fury as it is!
That aside, the livery has been trying too hard for too long and is too busy as you say. 3:21
It's not too far from the classic run before being able to walk addition of agrandising words, best of all
"International", airports all the more laughable!
Cross country - clue's in the name ought by now to be more sure of itself so that it doesn't have to look like a spillage on the floor of a cake decorations factory, nor arguably to submit the user to nightclub metropolitan cool striving monochrome impracticality.
If I were a regular traveller on the service, I might not be sure to clean my muddy gumboots (yes.., other passengers are available) nor certain that I was bound for Totnes rather than Tottenham.
Try travelling on the awful 197 units used on long distance and not so long distance trains . awful rough riding units with horrible seats are not good to travel on but better than the abysmal iet units
I can’t believe you ignored the greatest interiors in history, the piss stained beauties on the Manchester to leeds northern service
The Avanti Pendolino and Scotrail Class 156 refurbishments definitely feel like a downgrade.
I would have thought those CrossCountry interiors were generic operator instead of intercity operator if you hadn't have told me
What XC really need is new trains. A 5 car IET has the same capacity as an 8 car Voyager
SBB has horrible seats in the Flirt train and in all other Stadler trains. In case of the Giruno train you could be seating in ironing boards for 8 hours.
Having had to travel several.times between birmingham and nottingham, boy do i hate xc
I know we're a tiny demographic, but for people with kyphoscoliosis, even the absolute best train seats still aren't great for longer journeys. I always get confused when someone describes a train seat as comfortable before remembering that my spine is entirely the wrong shape for sitting in general (especially given I'm also fairly tall and have never had enough legroom). If anyone knows of anyone who sells anything to make chairs comfy, please tell me.
I suppose the only way to deal with that is just immense amounts of padding? Which is now prohibited under fire safety regulations…
Trains historically have yellow on the front to ensure high visibility so they ought to be exempt from comments on colour scheme, seeing as yknow it’s for safety and that
I wasn’t commenting on the yellow ends! Rather the random blobs of yellow on the bodyside near the doors.
i really like the current crosscountry livery, the new one is shit
the seats look exactly like the gwr hst in standard, but i still think the existing seats should be used like avanti
I still don't get why no-one has implemented the same seats as on DB intercity trains (the blue cloth ones with pillows). They're by far the most comfortable seats on the entire Dutch railway network, and they operate just one line here! Almost all of our (NS) trains have awfull rockhard ironing boards covered in fake leather. Such a waste.
Amtrak's very quickly going the Way of the UK with shitty seats in their Venture cars built by Siemens. Lots of people dislike them, and prefer the current seats in the Amfleet/Horizon coaches.
The WMR class 730 seats are horrible compared to the class 350 seats they replaced
Train interiors were sorted out in the 1930s.
Ironing boards are not uncomfortable if the profile is correct. The information has been known and freely available for the past 70 years 😂
Meanwhile, in the US Amtrak tries to gaslight us into thinking the Venture seats are great! And people online repeat something to the effect of “they’re good enough for German interregional trains, they’re good enough for Amtrak.” My take as someone not in Europe is that not everything European train builders do is a good idea and I’m sure they are partly to blame along with someone being cheap. Seeing as how we keep eating to import Eurotrash, I blame Siemens. The back pain my 30 year old back suffered on the San Joaquin took it personally.
Last i heard the main good thing about amtrak was the seating....
Siemens make superb trains and European stock was once exceedingly comfortable. However, new EU regulations post-2014-ish have meant that you can no longer fill seats with mountains of padding, and sadly this seems to include exported stock as well.
Without meaning to insult, it might also have something to do with Americans’ weight? Virtually all European seats (including in the UK) are designed for the 50th percentile German female, with the 95th percentile German male just about accommodated before the cushion collapses and becomes hard. Naturally, she will need considerably more “give” in the seat cushions than most Americans, so the seats may simply not be able to provide comfortable ergonomics?
You’d think the manufacturer would have thought of this, though.
The new cross country trains don’t seem to meet accessibility standards regarding contrast between seats, flooring and tables either! That is needed for visually impaired people. Just another Avenue to complain
I have to disagree with you on the current cross country seats. They're so uncomfortable and unnecessarily big and clunky, consuming a lot of space and giving nothing back in comfort for the space that they take.
I'm always disappointed when I need to travel via cross country as their carriages are absolutely awful, the digital seat displays are stupid and it's always a battle to get just a small sized suitcase in and out of the overhead storage.
I'm unsure what seats the LNER Avanti use (apologies if you said in the vidoe) but they're slim, providing more leg room and perhaps more seating (something there is never enough of on a cross country) and in my opinion they're so much more comfortable dispite their slim profile.
Obviously comfort is a personal preference so we all have our own opinion 😊
Train interiors are to match the San Quentin prison bus stop style "Parkway" stations . . .grim . .grim . . grim
Cross country should not have any train less then 8 coaches in my opinion
CrossCountry have no idea who lives in Towns Like Oakham. Why is the Stansted to Birmingham Route Through Oakham? I get a lot of overcrowded trains with XC from Oakham to Leicester and Birmingham, and i Do not get why they have not bothered upgrading their 170s to Class 220/221's for such a Ridiculous amount of people in a 3 carriage Train.
ICE interiors (and the old dosto RE car interiors) are basically the only good thing about German railways 😂 Honestly though, most train interiors are becoming decidedly mediocre everywhere. Just look at the Dutch double decker IC sets or the Italian high speed trains, most of them have pretty pathetic seats.
13-hour trains should have couchettes instead of seats anyway.
Well they need the capacity and not everyone is travelling that far. But some compartments would be very good.
I don't *hate* the new XC livery though - but that's probably just because the current one is so disgusting (brown and pink? ew.)
I personally quite like the current one. I think it looks smart.
Avanti WC and Cross Country should've been stripped of their franchises ages ago.
Ok as Indonesian, seeing this, i don't think the train operators know what they doing, it's seem UK train operators "most" of them didn't know how to design the train interior, how the hell you got that thin seat and cramped leg room not to mention very bad window alignment with that amount of ticket prices? Might as well just place a garden benches inside the train if the seat that thin, It will understandable if the ticket prices is very cheap, but it's not, it's not cheap but you got that? Seriously? if i have to pay that much for Intercity train for over 5 hours, and got that bad of interior, i will be so annoyed the entire journey😅
I hate the upcoming updated class 220/221s liverys, Pin, grey & blue looks ugly
First class is very ugly
NS ICNG seats are'nt any better either
This is not on 😡
Both Buses and Trains seats are dreadful just a bit of fabric on plastic should really have a standard in place that stops this.
10:50 Who employs these failing designers? What is the foundation upon which they base their error, witting or unwittingly forced on us though it be?
Two simple/simplistic answers spring up like the plushly dusty Bakerloo line no-nonsense time worn seat cushions of old.
First, the people who foist such blatantly bottom of the class cheap products on a public with a tiny chance to give a TOC competitor the train fare next time, care not for their fellow travellers and looking at the recent rash of unedifying examples of such stupidity, seem not to have to use such trains themselves.
Secondly, they must come adorned with extra cushioning comfort of their own already attached to their person.
Yes I'm unimaginably λξxχ / insert whatever name you want to put there but dozy or adeposey are my current contenders.
I honestly perhaps 🤔 think 🤔 💭 that the trains 🚆 🚊 🚂 are probably a in a good 👍 😌 😊 interior is because they must be refurbished. I honestly like 👍 ❤️ trains 🚂 🚊 🚆 is because it’s nice 👌 😊 👍 and warm inside them. I suppose that inside the trains 🚂 🚊 🚆 can 👌 become dirty after they’ve previously been refurbished is because a lot of people use the trains 🚂 🚊 🚆 every day is that hairs could fall out from people’s heads to the floor and all sorts of other things like ❤️ 👍 that. If people feel cold 🥶 inside the trains 🚂 🚊 🚆 , they can 👌 wear coats 🧥, scarves 🧣, gloves 🧤 and strong 💪 shoes 🥿 🥿 👞 👞 👟 👟 to warm themselves up 🔝 ⬆️ 🆙. 👍
The seats in the new cars Siemens built for Amtrak are absolute garbage.
De-personalisation, .,. . .the Design School way.
Let's Get Rid of Ironing Board Seats Immediately and Have Better Seating On All Trains Then The Train Journeys Are Good Again 👍