I don't think Maester Aemon's statement that he came to be the Maester of the Night's Watch of his own will and Marwyn's words contradict each other. The text says "Ask yourself why he was ALLOWED to waste his life upon the Wall". I'd say it was Aemon's own choice and the other Maesters didn't oppose it, because it seemed convenient to them: The Targaryen removes himself from the picture. It implies that they would have argued against someone like Aemon going to the Wall if he WASN'T a Targaryen, because they wouldn't want someone as talented/knowledgeable "wasting" himself on the Night's Watch, when they would need/want him as an archmaester
Okie Dokie... maybe if he served at court he could have stopped the madness and helped his brother , the king ...who Really knows ?!!?? But all I'm doing is putting this out there! So please don't get all crazy on me and my idea!!😊 , ( Love all of your videos and all of your personalities!!😱🤗😷 I just discovered you and your videos while I've been home and very sick so-THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!.🤧😷🤢🙄 I'll be watching your Videos (I have 2 alias' so far !! LoL ) i hope that's all !! 😉Oh and BTW, you do a fantastic job!! 👍 On the 2 I've found!! Geez I hope that's all 😃 I love "Glidus"!! but this "personality" is cool...😉❣️👍💯 keep doing what you're doing! Because it's very cool and I love these videos to pieces!!!
***** I think they got really turned off by the lack of supporting lore from the books... so I really doubt we'll get what we want, although I'm hoping :) If it wasn't for a couple of hilarious things the books would be flawless anyway (saying we have something else to enjoy beside the show). If I remember correctly, there will be a couple of movies when the show ends. Covering the past events.
"killing the dragons" means "killing the Targaryens" which Pycelle directly oversaw and virtually succeeded in doing at the end of Robert's Rebellion, when he got Aerys to open the gates to Tywin, who he knew would kill them all.
No, after asking who he thinks that killed the dragons last time he said:some mighty dragon hunters? So he's clearly referring to the animal dragin and not the Targs
@@muhammadeisa1459no, he means the animals, he makes a very clear reference to them. He could have meant the maestrys killed the hatchlings, or prevented the eggs from hatching.
He means the Doom of Valiria, when the dragon lord's and the dragons got killed except the Targeryans survived the maesters were the ones who caused the eruption in their goal of weakening and destroying magic cuz dragons are very powerfull and the fact they died down made magic weaker and when Dany got hers magic got a boon
You missed a pretty important detail, which is that in a Dance with Dragons, Tyrion mentions that somewhere in the Citadel is a book explaining *how to kill dragons*. It's heavily implied that *that's* what Jaqen is looking for, and why he needs an archmaester's key. The Faceless Men hate Valyrians and dragons even more than the maesters do, so it would make sense that Jaqen's mission is to figure out how to kill Daenerys' dragons. But the fact that the maesters even have that book in the first place backs up Marwyn's claim that they killed off the Targaryen dragons.
This is what I love about ASOIAF. I'd expect the dragons to be fucking indestructible in so many other fantasy worlds, but despite their power, they feel mortal and it makes me fear for them. The idea that the Maesters and Faceless men know how to kill them, and that Euron and Victarion might be capable of binding them to their command scares me. Far more than in the show when a dragon gets snapped like a twig in an illogical way for the sake having a dragon vs dragon fight.
@@piotrd.4850 Dragons in the books are immune to scorpions and other artillery. Only one dragon has ever been killed by ballistae and it was shot in the eye. D&D rewrote established lore to make it easier to kill dragons.
@@wafflingmean4477 Not to mention that it had already happened in the past. Dorne literally killed one of the first three dragons of Rhaenys if I'm not mistaken. GRRM emphasizes on the fact that in the end, dragons are just really strong animals, and like every other animal, they are mortal, they have weaknesses like any other natural being, and if you hit 'em hard enough you can easily kill them, which is something easily achievable with growing technology, if Westeros ever experiences an industrial age, where technology gets rapidly better, dragons won't mean for shit anymore, and something like that would make Targaryens shit themselves.
Thats the problem I foresee with the last 2 books, they are going to be ridiculously long to fit everything in for the end of the series and to resolve all the plot points and to keep the consistency
Well he has written some in couple years and published them. Trust me, for us it seem a lot. But these writers brain is different. They have read so much, studied english, its not as complicated as you think it is, and what I mean by that, it doesn’t take a good writer 10 years to finish a book or two. He’s just been very busy since the show came out, probably many interviews and other things. Also, I think he was helping with making the show and I think sometimes was behind the scenes. I guess he made so much money from it, it boosted his book sales so he is enjoying the fame n money. He is finally back to writing tho after probably being done with all the fame stuff that were going on. Will see how long it takes for the next ones to come out.
Well he is never going to finish the series, I think especially since the show flopped in the end, the pressure is bigger then ever. I guess he has writers block, 10years is a lot of time to not publish anything for a writer. But then, im just a guy on the internet so dont stop believing.
Most of the maesters we've met are extremely loyal to their appointed or chosen lords. Pycelle is devoted to the Lannisters. Aemon is loyal to the Night's Watch. Sam is loyal to Jon. Leuwin to the Starks. Cressen to Stannis. Even vile Qyburn seems loyal to Cersei. It seems that every maester has his own agenda based on his own loyalties -- like everyone else is Westeros.
Qyburn is a 100% not loyal to cersei, but he's not loyal to the maester either that's sure. We have no real proof Luwin is loyal to the starks. Pycelle is specifically not loyal to his lord (and helped killed the last targaryen king). Maesters are only loyal to the citadel and only a few in the citadel actually know the end goal. Most maesters are clueless pawn I would say
@@LF-hj8kk Maester Luwin seemed pretty loyal to the Starks in every instance that I can recall. His death scene makes it pretty clear he loved that family.
Counter point is Pycelle who is supposed to be loyal to the throne but isn't and White Harbor's maester who it is pretty clear is in the pocket of the Lannisters.
Point of order (@ about 7:25mins), regarding the growth of Dany's dragons. 'A Dance with Dragons' clearly tells us that while the dragon Drogon is free and flying around, he grows much bigger than the other two, who are kept in chains in a closed pit. So, captive dragons indeed do NOT grow as large as one left free.
+theGhoulman Rhaegal and Viserion were smaller than Drogon well before they were chained - as early as Daenerys III, ASOS, it's said that "The black one [Drogon] is largest and healthiest".
Alt Shift X Well, I bow to your encyclopedic knowledge. I was recently reading all the Dany chapters from 'Dance'. Of course, what characters say and what's ACTUALLY the truth is soooo often, um, not. ;)
+theGhoulman I think Drogon is bigger because he was the egg that didn't burn her when placed in the hot coals and took it off a bit later. The handmaiden tried to stop her and you saw the egg scales burnt on her.
Knowing that the the first 3 books were planned to be a trilogy, I think a lot of the newer plotlines like this maester conspiracy are newer ideas from Martin. Thats why I dont think Cressens POV had any references to the glass candles or being anti magic rather than purely pro stannis.
Yeah definitely, but it could be explained with the paternal love that he developed for Robert, Renly and especially Stannis. Any anti-magic agenda sounds important when the kids you raised are trying to kill each other. We also have to take into account that this is conspiration, if every important maester were aware of this everyone would already know a this point. They probably manipulate most of them and eventually some clever novice smells the shit under the rug.
Or the fact that the most important Maester spot in the council - the Small Council Master - was for decades in the hands of Pycelle: loyal to Tywin and only to Tywin. These two hints seems to confirm the Maesters Conspiracy showed up very late in Martin's mind, most likely afte writing book 3.
Just came back to this and realized that after seeing season 1 of HOTD, it does seem like the maester's played some part in speeding the demise of king Viserys. Meaning that it could have been interpretted by Marwin that the maester's were responsible for killing Viserys while they knew that there was bad blood surrounding who was regarded as his rightful heir, creating the conflict of the dance of dragons and killing off the dragons.
@@waffelmeister9477Exactly but was Marwin a viewer of the show HOTD you think? Because I don’t. I never claimed they poisoned him, I just don’t think they were giving him the most effective treatment for his sickness.
For there to be a big 'maester conspiracy' it doesn't mean that all maesters would have to be in on it. It could just be a relatively small, but powerful, contingent of elites within the maesters. So guys like Crennen and even the Grand Maester may have no idea, and their ignorance of any grand plot could even be something by design. For a conspiracy to work, I imagine you don't want a whole heckuva lot of people to know about it -- because each additional person is a risk. IMO, you'd want as few as possible to be successful.
Tell that to the Flat-Earthers!! Lol, not only would a conspiracy of that capacity need EVERY single military and NASA employee and most government officials BUT... it would require every/anyone in aviation (commercial or private), meteorologists, internet/cable/cell phone companies, companies that make GPSes or navigation apps, AND anyone involved in shipping by cargo ships
I think it's more down to the mindset that the Citadel engenders in its maesters. All of them bar Marwyn are extremely wary and skeptical of magic. This is directly from the training that the Citadel offers: they let people forge Valyrian steel links and they sit them in front of a glass candle fruitlessly for an entire night. No institutional conspiracy, just institutional culture.
Very true. I wonder if GRRM was inspired by the conspiracy to assassinate Julius Caeser at all? The leaders of that conspiracy were VERY selective about who to include, not only because they couldn't be sure of whether potential co-conspirator's loyalties would lie with them or Caeser once they showed their hand, but also as you said.. the more people that know a secret, the harder it is to keep. Idk, it just gives me similar vibes ~
I was just sad reading his prologue. He should have been neutral and didn't interfere (it didn't seem he gotthw order fr the Citadel) but he loved the family too much that he took initiative into eliminating what he believe was tearing the family apart.
Maester Pycelle is shown to be quite manipulative in the deleted scene where he and Tywin have a conversation. He drops the character and speaks freely, showing his intelligence and capability in a conspiracy.
I think a strong point of evidence in favor of the Masters (and Hightowers) at least starting the Dance of Dragons is that when Rhaenyra sent a message asking Baratheon to join her cause, Baratheon responded that he wouldn't be called like some dog, and said this i believe with his master right by his side. It's totally conceivable that the Master of his purposely read the message in a much more demanding/negative tone than Rhaenyra intended so that she wouldn't get them as allies
I have never been more baffled at GRRM's attention to detail than I was when I saw the names of 21 archmaesters, one of which we've actually seen in the books. This man is freakishly into detail.
@@user-gw5df2br5k Well then, my guess is that we'll probably get winds of winter next year or the year after that and should probably lose all hope for a dream of spring.
Quick thought--"killing all the dragons" might well mean the killing of the actual Targaryen blood line--the Kings/Queens. Perhaps they contributed to the "madness" of Aerys--providing potions causing hallucinations and paranoia?
Maybe Marwyn is referring to the Targs being killed when he says dragons. The Targs often get referred to as dragons and he also says "gallant dragonslayers with swords", sounds kinda like the Kingslayer Jaime, the knight in shining armour sort of thing, with him being handsome and all. So eventually this would refer to the maesters not directly killing the Targs but causing the rebellion just like the other source stated (I forget the name), plus Pycelle personally contributing a great deal to the killing of the Targs.
+monky That was from Lena Headley's instagram. People thought it was a hidden message to fans that lady stoneheart would make an appearance in the show, but it never happened (yet)
+TylerN101 Lena was pretty much trolling fans with that instagram pic. After season 4 happened and fans everywhere were disappointed, she went on to do an interview wearing a t-shirt that had a writing on it saying "I'm not sorry" with a heart shape on it.
I just found your channel today and LOVE IT. I've been binge watching all evening and I'm addicted. You really have the best discussions on Game of Thrones and I love how you put all of the pieces together. For someone who only discovered GofT through the show and not the books, I really appreciate how you connect what was in the books to what's in the show. It has given me so much insight into the characters that I didn't have before. I'm going to Patreon to check you out there.
Pycelle had the right idea coming across as a poor old man, but he played his role too outwardly and was too political. If he had talked a bit less and stopped kissing the Lannister’s boots so much, he’d be living a lot more comfortably.
I think it's important to remember that a conspiracy involving maesters doesn't necessarily involve all or even the majority of them. It could be a small clique of influential ones exerting pressure on other maesters and lords
I remember reading a pretty rock solid theory about how the maesters caused the Dance of Dragons (manipulating letters, causing miscarriages, etc). I've never considered there to be any doubt about it since I read it.
This also was shown the last episode of hotd. When the maester read the letter to Lord Borros. He could make it sound more angry, so Borrod would choose the greens.
I mean there is most definitely a conspiracy. Only ONE university in the entirety of the seven kingdoms, and graduates from university are guaranteed a lifetime career in government at some of the most highest levers of power? Man I'd love to meet the guy who made that deal with the Iron Throne.
+Ola Sarcasm Don't feel bad, these aren't the types of theories that come out of one reading, or even from one person. These tend to be a byproduct of the long wait between books and the collective discussion on fan forums.
+Ola Sarcasm Same here sometimes, for example the fact, that Alleras is a daughter of Oberyn. Still don´t know where I missed that fact. Does anybody know where in the book I get to know that?
I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to include captions with your videos. I'm hard of hearing (genetic defect) and a lot of times its a struggle to enjoy youtube vids because they don't bother with CC's. So thanks for letting my enjoy your great work :)
Great video, love all of them! I wonder if you could make a video about "Tragedy at Summerhall"? The event seems interesting enough, all I know was sorcery(according to Ser Barristan) and dragon breeding was involved and it ended the life of Ser Duncan the Tall. I've heard that some people think it was a plot to end the Targaryens. Again, great work man. Keep it up!
I'm pretty sure it was at least implied that them being chained up was at least partially responsible for the size difference since Rhaegal and Viserion are about the same size. It's most definitely possible that Drogon just always would've been bigger and that the relatively brief amount of time that Rhaegal and Viserion were imprisoned only limited their growth slightly though.
I think the reason Drogon was always the biggest is because he established in their infancy that he was the alpha. That meant whenever he wanted it, he could get a bit more food if he wanted. From what we can tell, dragons grow at a rate which depends on their food and exercise. Once the other dragons were locked up, they were given specifically determined and equal amounts of food at specific times. Drogon on the other hand constantly exercised through hunting and had as much food as he wanted. And when they were free to hunt on their own, he did that more than the others, such as when they went fishing on their way to Astapor. It kind of depends on their nature, because before they were locked up, Viserion preferred to laze around at the top of Dany's pyramid while Drogon was constantly hunting. So I think the precedent for their growth being slowed by captivity is there, but that doesn't mean the maesters played no part. It's the perfect cover story for if they did indeed poison them.
Lady Dustin only hates the Maesters because it was a Maester who recommended the wedding between Brandon Stark and Caetelyn Tully. Brandon took Lady Dustin's maidenhead and she wanted to marry him. Of course he strangled himself to death so she should really get over it...
She also sounds like a conspiracy theorist. Not that those exist on Westeros, but people gonna people and "Maesters did the Dance of Dragons" sounds sufficiently pseudo-intellectual for half-read bored nobles to consider.
I genuinely believe that at the *very* least, the Hightowers have long been manipulating events to gain the upper hand, and try to achieve the throne. Dance is a big example, but with the Faith and the Citadel both in Oldtown, they could be behind a lot of what has happened to the Targaryens throughout the years outside of the obvious situation with Alicent.
Every single video on this channel is so well done and informative. The only problem is that it is making me even more impatient as we all wait for the next book to come out!
I have been watching UA-cam videos for YEARS and this is my first ever comment. The tone, timber, and melodic flow of your speaking voice is seductive. If you are not a singer, you may wish to consider giving that a go.
A friend of mine said an interesting thing that very much applies here I believe, that the rich don't need to sit in a big dark room together to plot how to best serve their rich friends, they know what other rich people want and need. In the same way a lot of the Maesters are like minded and share the same feelings about the dragons. So without having to get together in a dark room to plot, they know what would be best for their goals, add in some personal drama, the fact that the less people in on a big secret, the more likely it is for it to stay a secret and the Maesters subtly scraping away at the Targaryens for a few centuries with some help from the Hightowers, the faith, the commons, and the Targaryen's self destructive tendencies seems a lot easier to accept on a case by case basis rather than a long intricate plot.
Correct if I'm wrong, but didn't Varys say I quote "I, my dear Lord Tyrion, work for the realm, somebody has to." Strange that Varys would add that last little bit. Seems to me as though he is implying that he, and only him, wishes the best for the realm and not just himself. I believe that this little piece of evidence strongly supports the claim that the Maesters only want to support their own interests rather than helping the realm.
THIS is how you theorise! Well done sir, while most channels are blurting out nonsensical hypotheses with no evidence to back up their claims, you go ahead and create a masterpiece like this with an in-depth breakdown from a non-biased viewpoint. Absolutely incredible stuff, have my insignifigant +1 sub for your research and efforts.
What if the dragons got smaller over time due to inbreeding? This would make sense and would also be a nice nod to the fact that the targaryens were married off to each other to keep the bloodline pure. While most likely being part of the cause of them becoming less significant over time. As valerians i mean
Both dragons and valyrians of old did inbreed for thousands of years They are not like common people and thus the laws of genetics dont apply to them, specially because it only needs 4-5 generations to all the offspring of subsequent inbreed to be stillborn, according to genetics They are magical people and magical creatures and thus the inbreed doesnt aplly to them
Yeah this is a good theory but inbreeding does not apply to Valyrians or their dragons. The dragons went extinct because of a stupid civil war. and the reason they got smaller was because they were locked up in captivity for years.
Nah it was specifically because of the dance of dragons that lead to the end of the Targaryen Dragons, minor spoilers: 20 dragons went into the dance, only 4 made it out. Only one remained in firm targ control.
I certainly can believe that individual maesters might take advantage of their positions to manipulate the lords they serve with some ulterior motives (i.e. Lord Manderly's maester possibly spying for the Lannisters). However, there's one very big problem with the idea of an overarching maester conspiracy. Conspiracies require communication, especially over the massive distances in Westeros given the level of technology. The maesters do control a means of communication (ravens), however it is not SECURE communication. Numerous characters throughout the series explicitly choose not to trust messages to ravens for fear of interception or loss, particularly when the information must remain secret (i.e. military movements or the news of the assassination attempt on Bran). Plus, ravens appear to be very noticeable when leaving or arriving at a castle. The people in castles seem to immediately notice when ravens arrive, and shooting down any ravens trying to leave a besieged castle is a standard military tactic. Therefore, it's hard to imagine how maesters could be sending illicit communications by raven without notice.
+Wolfeson28 Well, Tywin and Walder managed to kill a king and they were probably using ravens to communicate. If lords can do it, maesters will probably find a way, I'd say.
Those are good points, but I think there's a difference between a handful of lords hatching a single plot and maesters throughout Westeros maintaining a massive conspiracy for centuries. Each additional person and each additional length of time added to a plot exponentially adds to the chances of a slip-up or lost message somewhere revealing the plot. A code might be possible, but it just seems very unlikely that the timing and content of the messages maesters all over Westeros are told to write would match up perfectly with what they want to write for a conspiracy.
+Wolfeson28 Yes, it's not easy. But the Red Wedding happened during war, when people suspected ravens. Whereas the maester conspiracy would take place when people don't suspect anything. And maesters train for a long time, especially those who would be part of a great conspiracy. I can totally see it happening.
+Juan Pablo Mina Tywin and Walder wouldn't surprise anyone though. The Lannisters and the Freys knew what was going on, so it's not like there was a secret for them to hide. The only people they had to hide it from were the Starks, and they were a long way away by then.
From my reading of the books, magic has a life cycle with ebbs and flows. It explains the heights and lows of magic. These ebbs and flows last years slowly building and once they reach a peak they slowly recede, the dragons and their growth over is the best example. I believe the Doom was the apex and the sign of the fall of magic over the next decades.
Question: Are the maesters considering the Starks magical house too? Because they are (wolfblood, wargs), but the knowledge for warging and that they are wargs at all is forgotten, lost. Do the maesters know about them that wargs really exist? And House Stark is a family with a strong magical blood in their veins either? They are in denial about the existence of White Walkers, so maybe they are in denial about every other northern magic either.
At 8:33 A maester cover up is still possible. They stock and tend to the libraries after all. Keeping books around not written by them but that also don't necessarily damn them would be a good way of making the cover up more concealed.
Just rewatching this again. Very slick production. Imagine if this much effort was put into researching real historical events. Don't get me wrong, I'm as obsessed about this as anyone here. At this point, you and a handful of others, have actually produced unofficial college courses of fictional historical events. We are a silly bunch.
Your videos on various small sections of ASOIAF are so well thought out and well explained. I'd like to see a unified video in which some choice theories are taken for granted, and pulled together to form a large picture of what's really happening on Planetos.
Great video as usual! I think the Maesters played a big part in the Targaryen civil war, they call the beginnings of that the War of the Ravens. Preston Jacobs also has a good video on the Maester Master Plan
+Serry Rhaegal and Viserion were smaller than Drogon well before they were chained - e.g. "The black one [Drogon] is largest and healthiest" - Grazdan, in Daenerys III, ASOS.
Yes, but we don't know if Rhaegal and Viserion were growing as fast as drogon as they were in captivity. At least, i can't find the right passages at the moment to prove me or you wrong.
+Alt Shift X It is said in the books that 'dany noticed her two smaller dragons weren't growing as large since she locked them away ' (major paraphrasing but it's in there). Though the other two are not Blacks and were smaller in the first place they are still noted as having their growth stunted later. Drogon IS a black, with more of a violent nature and a need to feed that went beyond his siblings'. He would have been larger anyways. Now he is MUCH larger.
The way you animate the slides to move around as you talk and display the relevant things in boxes is fantastic but you'd do well to sound a tax more energetic and happy. You've got a lot of information though and I support this conspiracy 😊
I really really gotta read these books. Martin is a hell of a good writer to have so many theories made about his writings. I love it. Time to go get me some glasses to read these books or get audio books. Lol
I burnt through them in about 2 weeks recently. It's not as great as I'd hoped and now I am doomed to wait until Martin dies for the next books just to finish the series lol.
Would you consider doing a who's dead and who's alive video as we get closer to the book/season release? A refresher video on who's dead and why. And who is or my be behind those deaths? Love your videos thanks.
Well he showed up & his storyline went nowhere. I guess he did get legitimized by the "Mad Queen" & awarded Storms End to continue House Baratheon....so thats somethingf.
@Alt Shift X : You have some of the best GOT videos on YT. Interesting and informative. As a result of these videos I went out and bought a few of the books. Salute.
I also think one of Cressen's motivations was for Shireen, which kind of goes without saying considering how he viewed Stannis. His prologue chapter was extremely interesting to read. Freggin' patchface creeped me out the whole time and honestly I'm glad that the show's version of Cressen got to avoid the humiliation that he did in the book from Lady Selyse having Patchface put his tin bucket antler helm on the Maester.. I also feel like a lot of the motivation was to preserve the faith of the seven and I am not sure but was Cressen aware of Melisendre's plans to burn the Godswood on Dragonstone already? I think he felt like there was a lot of blasphemy more than magical badness on top of just a great love for Stannis and his family.
He killed him and another character (who i won't spoil unless you want me too) to likely put an end to Lannister allegiance in King's Landing, and make room for Aegon VI to take the throne again as Varys is a huge Targ Loyalist.
+RiceDuke the other character is kaven I believe but in the show varys in mareen so how he will kill them ? ( I dont read the books as much as I wants to but I dont think my English that good lol ) and one more thing I always wondered why varys support the targs ! I mean back in season 3 he had a conversation with tyrion about how he hate magic and everything relates to it ! as for the targs who have dragons and magic. unless he's a targ basterd or something 🤔
As for Cressen, I have the same thoughts as with Pycelle. Perhaps Cressen was both loyal to a conspiracy of Maesters against magic and loved Stannis. Perhaps he was trying to kill two birds with one stone. By trying to kill Melisandre, he would serve the other Maesters in their plans and save Stannis from evil. Perhaps they didn't write down everything Cressen thought........
I've been noticing the Master's disdain for magic from the very beginning. Maester Luwin's minimizing old Nan's stories to Bran, the shunning of Qyburn due to his dalliances in magic...their revisionist tendencies toward history...and then there is their placement attaching themselves to the noble houses. It hasn't gone unnoticed by me that they also advise on marriages AND that the two most powerfully magic bloodlines in the world have never converged. Some ppl feel that it's terribly predictable that Jon Snow IS the convergence of those two bloodlines, but I don't think that is the real story. The REAL story is that the Maesters have very subtly prevented this convergence & that it happened despite their interference, the only way it could...a forbidden love affair, and that no one knows WHAT Jon Snow is, not who...who is pretty cool in and of itself, but WHAT that will make him, is the forest behind the family trees. It's no coincidence that humanity has brought forth this convergence exactly when it was needed in the coming war for the dawn? Perhaps the faceless men know the Maesters have been supressing magic & ironically that their trying to save humanity by supressing magic would cause humanity to be defenseless against the army of the dead? So they are there to steal knowledge, in order to aid in the war to come by hatching the dragon egg in their possession & have already helped power up the magic in Stark bloodline? It would certainly go toward explaining why Jaqen H'ghar took such interest in Arya Stark & training her, if he knew the power in her bloodline. It's absolutely true the Maesters have an agenda against magic, but it's no mistake that Marwyn has become a rebel & stepped outside of the box. He sees what the faceless men see...that fully supressing magic would doom the realm of men. And then there is the REAL story. If the story of Azor Ahai was completed 1000s of years ago, then that should be the most significant story & it would have ended the struggle of the living vs the dead, but it ISN'T. The story we are immersed in right now is. What could possibly be a bigger story than Azor Ahai? Because AA didn't rid the world of the threat of the others, it just beat it back for 8 millenia. Something must break that wheel. Dany speaks of breaking it, perhaps that foreshadows the endgame of this story. Jon Snow is the key. We don't know the bloodline of AA, but there is no mention of him having power blood abilities. So we wait patiently to see exactly what Jon Snow is....not who.
Sometimes when reading GoT and associated lore I sometimes stop myself and think, "Wait, none of this is real"
So true
I always have the same thought. I **almost** want to go so far as to say I have to convince myself it isn't real.
I know so many useless things
or is it?
Same! XD
"Maesters are supposed to be politically neutral"
GRAND MAESTER PYCELLE BURSTS OUT LAUGHING.
Yessss
He had a nice beard tho
@@primus7882 'had'
I loved the cut out scene with him and tywin. Showed how genius that moron was 😂
Maegor the cruel had 3 politically neutral maesters, cuz he kept chopping off their heads
I don't think Maester Aemon's statement that he came to be the Maester of the Night's Watch of his own will and Marwyn's words contradict each other. The text says "Ask yourself why he was ALLOWED to waste his life upon the Wall". I'd say it was Aemon's own choice and the other Maesters didn't oppose it, because it seemed convenient to them: The Targaryen removes himself from the picture. It implies that they would have argued against someone like Aemon going to the Wall if he WASN'T a Targaryen, because they wouldn't want someone as talented/knowledgeable "wasting" himself on the Night's Watch, when they would need/want him as an archmaester
Agreed.
Okie Dokie... maybe if he served at court he could have stopped the madness and helped his brother , the king ...who Really knows ?!!?? But all I'm doing is putting this out there! So please don't get all crazy on me and my idea!!😊 ,
( Love all of your videos and all of your personalities!!😱🤗😷 I just discovered you and your videos while I've been home and very sick so-THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!.🤧😷🤢🙄 I'll be watching your Videos (I have 2 alias' so far !! LoL ) i hope that's all !! 😉Oh and BTW, you do a fantastic job!! 👍 On the 2 I've found!! Geez I hope that's all 😃 I love "Glidus"!! but this "personality" is cool...😉❣️👍💯 keep doing what you're doing! Because it's very cool and I love these videos to pieces!!!
It's a shame HBO are gonna rush the next 2 seasons.
Edited 07/08/2020: Wow I hate being right.
Yeah I hope this is one of those 'John Snow is totally dead and never coming back' things.
***** I think they got really turned off by the lack of supporting lore from the books... so I really doubt we'll get what we want, although I'm hoping :)
If it wasn't for a couple of hilarious things the books would be flawless anyway (saying we have something else to enjoy beside the show).
If I remember correctly, there will be a couple of movies when the show ends. Covering the past events.
You can't because actors grow old.
+Mrnjaou *Jon
Samuel Summers Gohn.
"killing the dragons" means "killing the Targaryens" which Pycelle directly oversaw and virtually succeeded in doing at the end of Robert's Rebellion, when he got Aerys to open the gates to Tywin, who he knew would kill them all.
No, after asking who he thinks that killed the dragons last time he said:some mighty dragon hunters? So he's clearly referring to the animal dragin and not the Targs
@@jamie_d0g978 or he could simply be referring to Jaime as the mighty dragon hunter, given that he killed Aerys.
Except that was more PRO Lannister (more precisely Tywin), than anti-Targ.
@@muhammadeisa1459no, he means the animals, he makes a very clear reference to them. He could have meant the maestrys killed the hatchlings, or prevented the eggs from hatching.
He means the Doom of Valiria, when the dragon lord's and the dragons got killed except the Targeryans survived the maesters were the ones who caused the eruption in their goal of weakening and destroying magic cuz dragons are very powerfull and the fact they died down made magic weaker and when Dany got hers magic got a boon
You missed a pretty important detail, which is that in a Dance with Dragons, Tyrion mentions that somewhere in the Citadel is a book explaining *how to kill dragons*. It's heavily implied that *that's* what Jaqen is looking for, and why he needs an archmaester's key.
The Faceless Men hate Valyrians and dragons even more than the maesters do, so it would make sense that Jaqen's mission is to figure out how to kill Daenerys' dragons. But the fact that the maesters even have that book in the first place backs up Marwyn's claim that they killed off the Targaryen dragons.
This is what I love about ASOIAF. I'd expect the dragons to be fucking indestructible in so many other fantasy worlds, but despite their power, they feel mortal and it makes me fear for them. The idea that the Maesters and Faceless men know how to kill them, and that Euron and Victarion might be capable of binding them to their command scares me. Far more than in the show when a dragon gets snapped like a twig in an illogical way for the sake having a dragon vs dragon fight.
Wow
Putting large, still rod through Dragon seems to do the job quite nicely.
@@piotrd.4850 Dragons in the books are immune to scorpions and other artillery. Only one dragon has ever been killed by ballistae and it was shot in the eye. D&D rewrote established lore to make it easier to kill dragons.
@@wafflingmean4477 Not to mention that it had already happened in the past. Dorne literally killed one of the first three dragons of Rhaenys if I'm not mistaken. GRRM emphasizes on the fact that in the end, dragons are just really strong animals, and like every other animal, they are mortal, they have weaknesses like any other natural being, and if you hit 'em hard enough you can easily kill them, which is something easily achievable with growing technology, if Westeros ever experiences an industrial age, where technology gets rapidly better, dragons won't mean for shit anymore, and something like that would make Targaryens shit themselves.
It's so easy to forget the depth of these books when we complain about Martin taking so long to write them...
Thats the problem I foresee with the last 2 books, they are going to be ridiculously long to fit everything in for the end of the series and to resolve all the plot points and to keep the consistency
Well he has written some in couple years and published them. Trust me, for us it seem a lot. But these writers brain is different. They have read so much, studied english, its not as complicated as you think it is, and what I mean by that, it doesn’t take a good writer 10 years to finish a book or two. He’s just been very busy since the show came out, probably many interviews and other things. Also, I think he was helping with making the show and I think sometimes was behind the scenes. I guess he made so much money from it, it boosted his book sales so he is enjoying the fame n money. He is finally back to writing tho after probably being done with all the fame stuff that were going on. Will see how long it takes for the next ones to come out.
All the same ten years is ten years. The first 3 books came out within 5 or so years.
Not really, if he didn't take so long to write the books people wouldn't look as deep into them and analyze them so much.
Well he is never going to finish the series, I think especially since the show flopped in the end, the pressure is bigger then ever. I guess he has writers block, 10years is a lot of time to not publish anything for a writer. But then, im just a guy on the internet so dont stop believing.
Most of the maesters we've met are extremely loyal to their appointed or chosen lords. Pycelle is devoted to the Lannisters. Aemon is loyal to the Night's Watch. Sam is loyal to Jon. Leuwin to the Starks. Cressen to Stannis. Even vile Qyburn seems loyal to Cersei. It seems that every maester has his own agenda based on his own loyalties -- like everyone else is Westeros.
Qyburn is a 100% not loyal to cersei, but he's not loyal to the maester either that's sure. We have no real proof Luwin is loyal to the starks. Pycelle is specifically not loyal to his lord (and helped killed the last targaryen king).
Maesters are only loyal to the citadel and only a few in the citadel actually know the end goal. Most maesters are clueless pawn I would say
@@LF-hj8kk Maester Luwin seemed pretty loyal to the Starks in every instance that I can recall. His death scene makes it pretty clear he loved that family.
@@anatoldenevers237 yeah like the scene where he thinks theon burnt them it’s so good
@@anatoldenevers237 Luwin is mostly loyal to Catelyn and her Tuly children, than House Stark. Like, he sent Jon to the Wall..
Counter point is Pycelle who is supposed to be loyal to the throne but isn't and White Harbor's maester who it is pretty clear is in the pocket of the Lannisters.
6 years later and we still waiting on that next book to find out what the maesters are up to
Literally me
8 years now :(
@@thecountryboymack bruh I forgot I commented this😭 we’re never getting the next book
You'll get a 3rd cookbook and LIKE it.
Guess you could call it their...Maester Plan
Alex The Huntsman oh gosh..
In the same spirit, I had always wished that they just cut to the chase and called the "Stallion who will mount the World" Genghis Khal instead
Ba dum tsssss 😁👌
ua-cam.com/video/7WseRJMQf1U/v-deo.html
Why doesn’t this comment have 1K likes ???? 😂😂
Point of order (@ about 7:25mins), regarding the growth of Dany's dragons. 'A Dance with Dragons' clearly tells us that while the dragon Drogon is free and flying around, he grows much bigger than the other two, who are kept in chains in a closed pit. So, captive dragons indeed do NOT grow as large as one left free.
+theGhoulman Rhaegal and Viserion were smaller than Drogon well before they were chained - as early as Daenerys III, ASOS, it's said that "The black one [Drogon] is largest and healthiest".
Alt Shift X Well, I bow to your encyclopedic knowledge. I was recently reading all the Dany chapters from 'Dance'. Of course, what characters say and what's ACTUALLY the truth is soooo often, um, not. ;)
+Alt Shift X In episode 2 of season 6 they mention them withering away in their den.
IM SORRY IM SORRY
Hey thanks. Always nice to be proven right. :)
+theGhoulman I think Drogon is bigger because he was the egg that didn't burn her when placed in the hot coals and took it off a bit later. The handmaiden tried to stop her and you saw the egg scales burnt on her.
I need a "Who is responsible for this event" table. Bloodraven, the Maesters, Lil' Finger, or Varys
Dany is known as the "Breaker of Chains." The maesters all wear a heavy chain, almost like it's their sigil = MINDBLOWN!
O_O
One of the quotes in the video refers to the chain as a collar too. Coincidence?
Dany is a targ and is bringing dragons back to Westeros. Hightowers may suppory Aegon. Dany burns the Citadel confirmed.
+ArtPlays ... as in the library at Alexandria ...
+christinearmington This makes too much sense quick get the tinfoil.
Knowing that the the first 3 books were planned to be a trilogy, I think a lot of the newer plotlines like this maester conspiracy are newer ideas from Martin. Thats why I dont think Cressens POV had any references to the glass candles or being anti magic rather than purely pro stannis.
Yeah definitely, but it could be explained with the paternal love that he developed for Robert, Renly and especially Stannis. Any anti-magic agenda sounds important when the kids you raised are trying to kill each other.
We also have to take into account that this is conspiration, if every important maester were aware of this everyone would already know a this point. They probably manipulate most of them and eventually some clever novice smells the shit under the rug.
Or the fact that the most important Maester spot in the council - the Small Council Master - was for decades in the hands of Pycelle: loyal to Tywin and only to Tywin. These two hints seems to confirm the Maesters Conspiracy showed up very late in Martin's mind, most likely afte writing book 3.
Just came back to this and realized that after seeing season 1 of HOTD, it does seem like the maester's played some part in speeding the demise of king Viserys. Meaning that it could have been interpretted by Marwin that the maester's were responsible for killing Viserys while they knew that there was bad blood surrounding who was regarded as his rightful heir, creating the conflict of the dance of dragons and killing off the dragons.
>The viewers literally get to see Viserys slowly rotting and falling apart over the course of 15 or so years
“the maesters poisoned him!“
@@waffelmeister9477Exactly but was Marwin a viewer of the show HOTD you think? Because I don’t. I never claimed they poisoned him, I just don’t think they were giving him the most effective treatment for his sickness.
Not to mention in Fire and
Blood is from Maestors so we don’t know how factual the book really is
That show was so disappointing
What if grand maester Pycelle is actually Jon Snow's mother?
Jar Jar Binks is actually Kylo Rens son
+carl powelson snape is kylo's real father
+monky Hodor is general snoke
+Ovde Blizu lmao!
+Ovde Blizu AND also his father at the same time! I know, right?!
For there to be a big 'maester conspiracy' it doesn't mean that all maesters would have to be in on it. It could just be a relatively small, but powerful, contingent of elites within the maesters. So guys like Crennen and even the Grand Maester may have no idea, and their ignorance of any grand plot could even be something by design.
For a conspiracy to work, I imagine you don't want a whole heckuva lot of people to know about it -- because each additional person is a risk. IMO, you'd want as few as possible to be successful.
Pycell is a Lannister bootlicker which proves Maesters can be biased.
It might be possible he had gay relationship with Tywin.😘
Tell that to the Flat-Earthers!! Lol, not only would a conspiracy of that capacity need EVERY single military and NASA employee and most government officials BUT... it would require every/anyone in aviation (commercial or private), meteorologists, internet/cable/cell phone companies, companies that make GPSes or navigation apps, AND anyone involved in shipping by cargo ships
@@mayankbisht7691 is that a joke or an actual theory lol
I think it's more down to the mindset that the Citadel engenders in its maesters. All of them bar Marwyn are extremely wary and skeptical of magic. This is directly from the training that the Citadel offers: they let people forge Valyrian steel links and they sit them in front of a glass candle fruitlessly for an entire night. No institutional conspiracy, just institutional culture.
Very true. I wonder if GRRM was inspired by the conspiracy to assassinate Julius Caeser at all? The leaders of that conspiracy were VERY selective about who to include, not only because they couldn't be sure of whether potential co-conspirator's loyalties would lie with them or Caeser once they showed their hand, but also as you said.. the more people that know a secret, the harder it is to keep.
Idk, it just gives me similar vibes ~
Cressen was a good person, I actually felt sad when he died. Plus, if I was him, I would also fear Melissandre and her black destructive magic.
Same man. And it contributes to my burning desire to see Mel burned and replaced with good ol’ Thoros.
I was just sad reading his prologue. He should have been neutral and didn't interfere (it didn't seem he gotthw order fr the Citadel) but he loved the family too much that he took initiative into eliminating what he believe was tearing the family apart.
Yeah. Her burning people alive as sacrifices was a bit concerning
Too quote Davos
'IF YOUR LORD ALLOWS YOU TO KILL CHILDREN, YOUR LORD IS EVIL.'
Maester Pycelle is shown to be quite manipulative in the deleted scene where he and Tywin have a conversation. He drops the character and speaks freely, showing his intelligence and capability in a conspiracy.
I think a strong point of evidence in favor of the Masters (and Hightowers) at least starting the Dance of Dragons is that when Rhaenyra sent a message asking Baratheon to join her cause, Baratheon responded that he wouldn't be called like some dog, and said this i believe with his master right by his side. It's totally conceivable that the Master of his purposely read the message in a much more demanding/negative tone than Rhaenyra intended so that she wouldn't get them as allies
U so right
I have never been more baffled at GRRM's attention to detail than I was when I saw the names of 21 archmaesters, one of which we've actually seen in the books. This man is freakishly into detail.
@Matthew Beattie tbf it took almost 15 years for dance,
@Matthew Beattie at the rate he writes he will be about 100 by the time he finished ados
@@user-gw5df2br5k A dance with dragons came out 6 years after a feast for crows was released.
@@islipperyfellow6487 he started writing them at the same time and they were originally going to be the same book though
@@user-gw5df2br5k Well then, my guess is that we'll probably get winds of winter next year or the year after that and should probably lose all hope for a dream of spring.
"I always wanted to be a wizard"
- Sam Tarly
So excited when I see Alt Shift X in my sub box
Damn straight!
+DrewBoys Same! I immediately click the thumbnail.
+DrewBoys Oh yes!
+DrewBoys I have to remember to check seemingly everyone's channels because it doesn't seem to show recent vids in my sub box
+DrewBoys So true man!
Quick thought--"killing all the dragons" might well mean the killing of the actual Targaryen blood line--the Kings/Queens. Perhaps they contributed to the "madness" of Aerys--providing potions causing hallucinations and paranoia?
A little mercury poisoning goes a long way...
I think this is what the Maesters did to Viserys in House of the Dragon!!! Slowly poisoning him!!
Maybe Marwyn is referring to the Targs being killed when he says dragons. The Targs often get referred to as dragons and he also says "gallant dragonslayers with swords", sounds kinda like the Kingslayer Jaime, the knight in shining armour sort of thing, with him being handsome and all. So eventually this would refer to the maesters not directly killing the Targs but causing the rebellion just like the other source stated (I forget the name), plus Pycelle personally contributing a great deal to the killing of the Targs.
I meant Barbrey by the other source
Luuk V pycelle is dead tho...
They may have sabotaged the ritual at summerhall to kill the targarians
that's an amazing picture of lady stoneheart 10:56
+monky bhahaha that picture showed lady stoneheart at her best! nodoubt
+monky That was from Lena Headley's instagram. People thought it was a hidden message to fans that lady stoneheart would make an appearance in the show, but it never happened (yet)
+TylerN101 Lena was pretty much trolling fans with that instagram pic. After season 4 happened and fans everywhere were disappointed, she went on to do an interview wearing a t-shirt that had a writing on it saying "I'm not sorry" with a heart shape on it.
Took me a while
I just found your channel today and LOVE IT. I've been binge watching all evening and I'm addicted. You really have the best discussions on Game of Thrones and I love how you put all of the pieces together.
For someone who only discovered GofT through the show and not the books, I really appreciate how you connect what was in the books to what's in the show. It has given me so much insight into the characters that I didn't have before.
I'm going to Patreon to check you out there.
Thank you! Glad you enjoy the vids (:
Jet fuel can't melt obsidian beams.
+jonah hoff Kneel you crook!
+jonah hoff haha nice. Unless there are terrorists armed with magic!
jonah hoff but Dragon fire can!
Christian Krueger misis, magic ISIS
It was an inside job Hoff!! An inside job..
So they're like the Illuminati of Westeros?
Freemasons actually.
free*maesters* :D
actually illuminati cause they spread knowledge to the people, just like the illuminati did
*Jews
Or the Jesuits.
Pycelle had the right idea coming across as a poor old man, but he played his role too outwardly and was too political. If he had talked a bit less and stopped kissing the Lannister’s boots so much, he’d be living a lot more comfortably.
Thing is, he's genuinely a Tywin fanboy. He's not trying to stay hidden, he's trying to advance the Lannister cause.
I think it's important to remember that a conspiracy involving maesters doesn't necessarily involve all or even the majority of them. It could be a small clique of influential ones exerting pressure on other maesters and lords
This
I love how wildly complex and realistic the politics in ASOIAF are.
Thanks for making these videos Alt Shift X!
I remember reading a pretty rock solid theory about how the maesters caused the Dance of Dragons (manipulating letters, causing miscarriages, etc). I've never considered there to be any doubt about it since I read it.
This also was shown the last episode of hotd. When the maester read the letter to Lord Borros. He could make it sound more angry, so Borrod would choose the greens.
I mean there is most definitely a conspiracy. Only ONE university in the entirety of the seven kingdoms, and graduates from university are guaranteed a lifetime career in government at some of the most highest levers of power?
Man I'd love to meet the guy who made that deal with the Iron Throne.
I've read all the books, but I always feel lost and clueless when I see these.
Alt and Preston Jacobs both make me feel like I slept through half the series. How did I miss so much while reading?!
+shananika Is not possible to memorise all the details, Shift does his research before making a video
+Ola Sarcasm Don't feel bad, these aren't the types of theories that come out of one reading, or even from one person. These tend to be a byproduct of the long wait between books and the collective discussion on fan forums.
+Ola Sarcasm Same here sometimes, for example the fact, that Alleras is a daughter of Oberyn. Still don´t know where I missed that fact. Does anybody know where in the book I get to know that?
+TheShadowFires it's not there. Alleras is just Sarella spelled backwards, so people have concluded that it's her. Nothing else to it.
Wildfire can't melt Valyrian steel beams, investigate the Maesters. #SummerhallTruth
#summerhallwasaninsidejob
Careful man or you will be found dead because you killed yourself with lot's of knife wounds and a arrow on his eye.
I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to include captions with your videos. I'm hard of hearing (genetic defect) and a lot of times its a struggle to enjoy youtube vids because they don't bother with CC's. So thanks for letting my enjoy your great work :)
I always listen to these as I’m heading to sleep. Such great videos.
In every your video I watched where you say "we'll find out in the next book" I want to cry
Well, the maesters “killing off all the dragons” could be a metaphor for a conspiracy to unseat the Targaryans and aid in Robert’s Rebellion.
Props for that DJ Khaled loyal reference
I am dead. That caught me offguard. This isnt pyrocynical xD
+Peyton Vaughn You loyal!
+Peyton Vaughn We the greatest in the game.
You smart. Bless up.
+fitzjerlad swaggerboii do you watch h3h3? cuz you should
Great video, love all of them! I wonder if you could make a video about "Tragedy at Summerhall"? The event seems interesting enough, all I know was sorcery(according to Ser Barristan) and dragon breeding was involved and it ended the life of Ser Duncan the Tall. I've heard that some people think it was a plot to end the Targaryens. Again, great work man. Keep it up!
DONE!
I always thought that when Marwyn said that, he was referring that the maesters had something to do with the disaster at Summerhall.
The two dragons that Dany chained up were much smaller than the dragon she left free...
well Aegon's dragon was bigger than his sisters own and none of them were chained
And Drogon was already bigger than the other two at birth/early on.
I'm pretty sure it was at least implied that them being chained up was at least partially responsible for the size difference since Rhaegal and Viserion are about the same size. It's most definitely possible that Drogon just always would've been bigger and that the relatively brief amount of time that Rhaegal and Viserion were imprisoned only limited their growth slightly though.
I think the reason Drogon was always the biggest is because he established in their infancy that he was the alpha. That meant whenever he wanted it, he could get a bit more food if he wanted. From what we can tell, dragons grow at a rate which depends on their food and exercise. Once the other dragons were locked up, they were given specifically determined and equal amounts of food at specific times. Drogon on the other hand constantly exercised through hunting and had as much food as he wanted. And when they were free to hunt on their own, he did that more than the others, such as when they went fishing on their way to Astapor. It kind of depends on their nature, because before they were locked up, Viserion preferred to laze around at the top of Dany's pyramid while Drogon was constantly hunting.
So I think the precedent for their growth being slowed by captivity is there, but that doesn't mean the maesters played no part. It's the perfect cover story for if they did indeed poison them.
@@elf_1334 Balerion was older than Vaghar and Meraxes. He was the last living thing to see Valyria before the doom.
Lady Dustin only hates the Maesters because it was a Maester who recommended the wedding between Brandon Stark and Caetelyn Tully. Brandon took Lady Dustin's maidenhead and she wanted to marry him. Of course he strangled himself to death so she should really get over it...
For a moment I thought you meant our Bran and I was like "when did that happen"
Brandon Stark was an asshole.
She really sound like a vindictive witch most of the time, so that's probably all she got against maesters
She also sounds like a conspiracy theorist.
Not that those exist on Westeros, but people gonna people and "Maesters did the Dance of Dragons" sounds sufficiently pseudo-intellectual for half-read bored nobles to consider.
I genuinely believe that at the *very* least, the Hightowers have long been manipulating events to gain the upper hand, and try to achieve the throne. Dance is a big example, but with the Faith and the Citadel both in Oldtown, they could be behind a lot of what has happened to the Targaryens throughout the years outside of the obvious situation with Alicent.
Preston and AltShiftX in the same day? Whooo!
+Crystal Owens It's what I call a GOOD DAY
And new Radio Westeros! It was a fantastic day!
Preston?
+Kevin Pfeiffer Preston Jacobs, another ASOIAF theorycrafter.
+Crystal Owens thanks!
Every single video on this channel is so well done and informative. The only problem is that it is making me even more impatient as we all wait for the next book to come out!
I have been watching UA-cam videos for YEARS and this is my first ever comment. The tone, timber, and melodic flow of your speaking voice is seductive. If you are not a singer, you may wish to consider giving that a go.
It's just a basic Australian accent lol.
A friend of mine said an interesting thing that very much applies here I believe, that the rich don't need to sit in a big dark room together to plot how to best serve their rich friends, they know what other rich people want and need. In the same way a lot of the Maesters are like minded and share the same feelings about the dragons. So without having to get together in a dark room to plot, they know what would be best for their goals, add in some personal drama, the fact that the less people in on a big secret, the more likely it is for it to stay a secret and the Maesters subtly scraping away at the Targaryens for a few centuries with some help from the Hightowers, the faith, the commons, and the Targaryen's self destructive tendencies seems a lot easier to accept on a case by case basis rather than a long intricate plot.
9:14 "they don't wantchu to have dragons"
+thoyo anotha one
Rustin Badger dragaaaawn!!
drahgawns
+thoyo LIOOOOON!
You smart
Correct if I'm wrong, but didn't Varys say I quote "I, my dear Lord Tyrion, work for the realm, somebody has to." Strange that Varys would add that last little bit. Seems to me as though he is implying that he, and only him, wishes the best for the realm and not just himself.
I believe that this little piece of evidence strongly supports the claim that the Maesters only want to support their own interests rather than helping the realm.
THIS is how you theorise! Well done sir, while most channels are blurting out nonsensical hypotheses with no evidence to back up their claims, you go ahead and create a masterpiece like this with an in-depth breakdown from a non-biased viewpoint. Absolutely incredible stuff, have my insignifigant +1 sub for your research and efforts.
What if the dragons got smaller over time due to inbreeding? This would make sense and would also be a nice nod to the fact that the targaryens were married off to each other to keep the bloodline pure. While most likely being part of the cause of them becoming less significant over time. As valerians i mean
Both dragons and valyrians of old did inbreed for thousands of years
They are not like common people and thus the laws of genetics dont apply to them, specially because it only needs 4-5 generations to all the offspring of subsequent inbreed to be stillborn, according to genetics
They are magical people and magical creatures and thus the inbreed doesnt aplly to them
@@guifdcanalli The inbreeding didn't have any effect on them? Half of the fuckers went crazy
Yeah this is a good theory but inbreeding does not apply to Valyrians or their dragons. The dragons went extinct because of a stupid civil war. and the reason they got smaller was because they were locked up in captivity for years.
Nah it was specifically because of the dance of dragons that lead to the end of the Targaryen Dragons,
minor spoilers:
20 dragons went into the dance, only 4 made it out. Only one remained in firm targ control.
I certainly can believe that individual maesters might take advantage of their positions to manipulate the lords they serve with some ulterior motives (i.e. Lord Manderly's maester possibly spying for the Lannisters). However, there's one very big problem with the idea of an overarching maester conspiracy. Conspiracies require communication, especially over the massive distances in Westeros given the level of technology. The maesters do control a means of communication (ravens), however it is not SECURE communication. Numerous characters throughout the series explicitly choose not to trust messages to ravens for fear of interception or loss, particularly when the information must remain secret (i.e. military movements or the news of the assassination attempt on Bran). Plus, ravens appear to be very noticeable when leaving or arriving at a castle. The people in castles seem to immediately notice when ravens arrive, and shooting down any ravens trying to leave a besieged castle is a standard military tactic. Therefore, it's hard to imagine how maesters could be sending illicit communications by raven without notice.
+Wolfeson28 Well, Tywin and Walder managed to kill a king and they were probably using ravens to communicate. If lords can do it, maesters will probably find a way, I'd say.
They could be communicating through code, hiding the true message in the words they are told to write.
Those are good points, but I think there's a difference between a handful of lords hatching a single plot and maesters throughout Westeros maintaining a massive conspiracy for centuries. Each additional person and each additional length of time added to a plot exponentially adds to the chances of a slip-up or lost message somewhere revealing the plot. A code might be possible, but it just seems very unlikely that the timing and content of the messages maesters all over Westeros are told to write would match up perfectly with what they want to write for a conspiracy.
+Wolfeson28 Yes, it's not easy. But the Red Wedding happened during war, when people suspected ravens. Whereas the maester conspiracy would take place when people don't suspect anything. And maesters train for a long time, especially those who would be part of a great conspiracy. I can totally see it happening.
+Juan Pablo Mina Tywin and Walder wouldn't surprise anyone though. The Lannisters and the Freys knew what was going on, so it's not like there was a secret for them to hide. The only people they had to hide it from were the Starks, and they were a long way away by then.
From my reading of the books, magic has a life cycle with ebbs and flows. It explains the heights and lows of magic. These ebbs and flows last years slowly building and once they reach a peak they slowly recede, the dragons and their growth over is the best example. I believe the Doom was the apex and the sign of the fall of magic over the next decades.
Had something important to do. Really important. Yet here I am because these videos are like are Christmas presents.
Christmas presents that come all through the year (:
Find out more in the next book. Imagine it being 7 years later and we are still waiting
Question: Are the maesters considering the Starks magical house too? Because they are (wolfblood, wargs), but the knowledge for warging and that they are wargs at all is forgotten, lost. Do the maesters know about them that wargs really exist? And House Stark is a family with a strong magical blood in their veins either? They are in denial about the existence of White Walkers, so maybe they are in denial about every other northern magic either.
At 8:33 A maester cover up is still possible. They stock and tend to the libraries after all. Keeping books around not written by them but that also don't necessarily damn them would be a good way of making the cover up more concealed.
I'm watching these backwards so I get to hear the mic quolaty deteriate
Haha I’m doing the opposite. It’s slowly getting better
Just rewatching this again. Very slick production.
Imagine if this much effort was put into researching real historical events. Don't get me wrong, I'm as obsessed about this as anyone here. At this point, you and a handful of others, have actually produced unofficial college courses of fictional historical events. We are a silly bunch.
Your videos on various small sections of ASOIAF are so well thought out and well explained. I'd like to see a unified video in which some choice theories are taken for granted, and pulled together to form a large picture of what's really happening on Planetos.
Great video as usual! I think the Maesters played a big part in the Targaryen civil war, they call the beginnings of that the War of the Ravens. Preston Jacobs also has a good video on the Maester Master Plan
Drogon is clearly bigger in the books as Rhaegal and Viserion.
I thin that the chains are the reason for this indeed.
+Serry Rhaegal and Viserion were smaller than Drogon well before they were chained - e.g. "The black one [Drogon] is largest and healthiest" - Grazdan, in Daenerys III, ASOS.
Yes, but we don't know if Rhaegal and Viserion were growing as fast as drogon as they were in captivity.
At least, i can't find the right passages at the moment to prove me or you wrong.
+Alt Shift X It is said in the books that 'dany noticed her two smaller dragons weren't growing as large since she locked them away ' (major paraphrasing but it's in there). Though the other two are not Blacks and were smaller in the first place they are still noted as having their growth stunted later. Drogon IS a black, with more of a violent nature and a need to feed that went beyond his siblings'. He would have been larger anyways. Now he is MUCH larger.
+Serry Drogon is also clearly the "alpha" of the three, it's likely he got first pick on the food when they were smaller.
+Serry I think there is a bit when Daenarys goes to Astapor to where someone mentions the whole keeping the dragons enclosed stunts their growth thing
Love the videos, really great work! I think you should make an Aegon=Blackfyre theory video next!
Who’s here after season 8 but still wants more Asoiaf
This guy really puts time and work in to his videos and I appreciate that, thank you...
The way you animate the slides to move around as you talk and display the relevant things in boxes is fantastic but you'd do well to sound a tax more energetic and happy. You've got a lot of information though and I support this conspiracy 😊
Love your theories man
+Innary Díaz Don't we all?
Watching these lore videos now is risky af. When you mentioned dance of the dragons I had to turn it off to avoid spoilers from House of The Dragon
I really really gotta read these books. Martin is a hell of a good writer to have so many theories made about his writings. I love it. Time to go get me some glasses to read these books or get audio books. Lol
Please do. They are BRILLIANT!
I burnt through them in about 2 weeks recently. It's not as great as I'd hoped and now I am doomed to wait until Martin dies for the next books just to finish the series lol.
Can't believe I'm watching this 8yrs later and still no closer to having answers. When will the winters wind blow
Watching this after the latest HOTD episodes is like night and day difference! Amazing!
Would you consider doing a who's dead and who's alive video as we get closer to the book/season release? A refresher video on who's dead and why. And who is or my be behind those deaths? Love your videos thanks.
A topic idea for next time :
"Where is Gendry ?"
Well he showed up & his storyline went nowhere. I guess he did get legitimized by the "Mad Queen" & awarded Storms End to continue House Baratheon....so thats somethingf.
Great breakdown vid sir! Don't worry about us Maesters,we just chilling and sharing our wisdom with the BLING around our necks!
@Alt Shift X : You have some of the best GOT videos on YT. Interesting and informative. As a result of these videos I went out and bought a few of the books. Salute.
Haha it took me a moment to figure out what you meant with the picture of the rocks until I noticed they are arranged in a heart shape xD Nice vid!
7:23 Rhae and Vis growth was stunted when they were locked up. When they got out, they were significantly smaller then Drogon.
what about maester Luwin? he basically manipulated Jon Snow to join the nights watch when Ned and Benjen didnt want him to.
If Luwin knew Jon was a dragonseed, he wouldn't want him ruling _anything._
I also think one of Cressen's motivations was for Shireen, which kind of goes without saying considering how he viewed Stannis. His prologue chapter was extremely interesting to read. Freggin' patchface creeped me out the whole time and honestly I'm glad that the show's version of Cressen got to avoid the humiliation that he did in the book from Lady Selyse having Patchface put his tin bucket antler helm on the Maester.. I also feel like a lot of the motivation was to preserve the faith of the seven and I am not sure but was Cressen aware of Melisendre's plans to burn the Godswood on Dragonstone already? I think he felt like there was a lot of blasphemy more than magical badness on top of just a great love for Stannis and his family.
Shift is so real for putting Mellos on the thumb
I was so perplexed by that, but it’s definitely clever as it will attract HoTD fans
Well spoken. Excellent voice. I enjoyed this much. You got yourself about 5 new subs. Cheers!
6 years later still waiting for this fun. 😄
The Bene Lesserit
LOL That DJ Khaled edit!! 😂😂
+Adrian9a1 Wait where is it
+David Shanahan Hightower loyalty
9:17
15:50 "The good news is we will find more in the next book"
Well...i have some bad news for you....
Ah your the best kind of rabbit hole to fall into. Well thought out and presented
So glad that Varys killed Pycelle
+RiceDuke Thanks for the Spoilers (No sarcasm btw. Hearing that genuinely made me happy. So yes, thanks for the spoiler!)
why did he ?
lana xdelrey Probably because George RR Martin took pity on our souls after *unnamned bastards* death.
He killed him and another character (who i won't spoil unless you want me too) to likely put an end to Lannister allegiance in King's Landing, and make room for Aegon VI to take the throne again as Varys is a huge Targ Loyalist.
+RiceDuke the other character is kaven I believe but in the show varys in mareen so how he will kill them ? ( I dont read the books as much as I wants to but I dont think my English that good lol ) and one more thing I always wondered why varys support the targs ! I mean back in season 3 he had a conversation with tyrion about how he hate magic and everything relates to it ! as for the targs who have dragons and magic. unless he's a targ basterd or something 🤔
8 years ago we were excited to see what winds of winter might have
As for Cressen, I have the same thoughts as with Pycelle. Perhaps Cressen was both loyal to a conspiracy of Maesters against magic and loved Stannis. Perhaps he was trying to kill two birds with one stone. By trying to kill Melisandre, he would serve the other Maesters in their plans and save Stannis from evil. Perhaps they didn't write down everything Cressen thought........
I love your big theory videos for ASoIaF!!! Keep them coming.
"we'll find out more in the next book" yeah sure it's 7 years since this phrase and still we didn't get the winds of winter
DJ Khaled appearing out of nowhere killed me xD.
"You loyal."
I feel like he'd fit so well in this series.
Probably been said before and may be intentional on the part of GRRM, but the maesters remind me of the Bene Gesserit from Dune
Who else watched this after House Of The Dragon aired and got somewhat spoiled halfway through this video?
Still love the content, keep it up!
I've been noticing the Master's disdain for magic from the very beginning. Maester Luwin's minimizing old Nan's stories to Bran, the shunning of Qyburn due to his dalliances in magic...their revisionist tendencies toward history...and then there is their placement attaching themselves to the noble houses. It hasn't gone unnoticed by me that they also advise on marriages AND that the two most powerfully magic bloodlines in the world have never converged. Some ppl feel that it's terribly predictable that Jon Snow IS the convergence of those two bloodlines, but I don't think that is the real story. The REAL story is that the Maesters have very subtly prevented this convergence & that it happened despite their interference, the only way it could...a forbidden love affair, and that no one knows WHAT Jon Snow is, not who...who is pretty cool in and of itself, but WHAT that will make him, is the forest behind the family trees. It's no coincidence that humanity has brought forth this convergence exactly when it was needed in the coming war for the dawn? Perhaps the faceless men know the Maesters have been supressing magic & ironically that their trying to save humanity by supressing magic would cause humanity to be defenseless against the army of the dead? So they are there to steal knowledge, in order to aid in the war to come by hatching the dragon egg in their possession & have already helped power up the magic in Stark bloodline? It would certainly go toward explaining why Jaqen H'ghar took such interest in Arya Stark & training her, if he knew the power in her bloodline.
It's absolutely true the Maesters have an agenda against magic, but it's no mistake that Marwyn has become a rebel & stepped outside of the box. He sees what the faceless men see...that fully supressing magic would doom the realm of men. And then there is the REAL story. If the story of Azor Ahai was completed 1000s of years ago, then that should be the most significant story & it would have ended the struggle of the living vs the dead, but it ISN'T. The story we are immersed in right now is. What could possibly be a bigger story than Azor Ahai? Because AA didn't rid the world of the threat of the others, it just beat it back for 8 millenia. Something must break that wheel. Dany speaks of breaking it, perhaps that foreshadows the endgame of this story. Jon Snow is the key. We don't know the bloodline of AA, but there is no mention of him having power blood abilities. So we wait patiently to see exactly what Jon Snow is....not who.
“....it’s going to be a lot of fun seeing how all this turns out.”
Oh, you sweet summer child.