Got Scrawny, Sprouting Scions? Graft Them Anyway!
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- Опубліковано 2 кві 2021
- Two grafting problems everyone has and how to deal with them, Skinny and Sprouting Scions
READ THE BLOG POSTS: skillcult.com/blog/2021/3/22/g...
AND: skillcult.com/blog/2021/3/23/w...
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Thanks for all the videos! I literally went from zero knowledge to grafting a dozen varieties on thirty rootstocks and putting over twenty grafts onto a frankentree. Gotta love crappy winter days and UA-cam!
Awesome dude. Best of luck with those grafts :)
ok now i get how that graft is done better by seeing you do it. one video you done about grafting you mentioned about getting scion tighter when wrapping it. i had many grafts fail in past. but last year i took note of making them tighter like you mentioned and i had 100% success with them and they all were cleft grafts on end of limbs. thanks for all you do !
It's pretty straightforward. Just a little fussing to get the lengths right, but it's easy to make adjustments. I hardly use clefts anymore. They work fine and are fast and easy, but there are usually better grafts if you can make them reliably. At least in terms of healing better. Clefts are kind of the worst for poor healing, aside from very large stubs.
If you like Parafilm, you'll love Buddy Tape. Very similar but I find it to be stretchier and more stable at various temperatures and most importantly, stronger
Someone mentioned that recently. I'll check it out. If I could get the advantages of parafilm, with better resilience, I'd be interested if it's affordable.
Great info as always!
great to get a refresher before heading out to graft this spring, and that side lap graft looks useful
Thank you very much for spending the time - once again!
Some of the best grafting videos I've seen. Very well done Thanks
Thank you for this. I always enjoy grafting and orchard information type videos.
Just checked my grafts and even the two skinny pippin grafts worked. So: Thanks to you and the enormous effort you put into your grafting series. Which taught me how to graft.
Good to hear. So far My takes are super high this year, including nearly 100% of the small wood I saved back to use here. I'm planning to eventually add another video to this series that is about breaking all these conventions and being creative and adaptive and what you can get away with.
@@SkillCult Exactly why I love your channel.
Thank you! Very good video, it's never late to see and learn new stuff... Good luck with all in this year!
Thanks for the vid. 👍🏻
I’m jealous of all the new leaves on your trees- we’re still totally dormant here ❄️
I keep my parafilm in my shirt pocket when the weather is cool. It will stretch more easily without snapping.
Def noticed a difference between grafting on a cold morning and when warmer. Though very warm and it stretches and breaks almost too easy too. I did actually keep it in my front shirt pocket. I usually keep my budding tape in a cargo pocket with the end hanging out like a dispenser.
These techniques came in handy this year. I did whip and tongue grafts on all the closely matching stuff first. I'd always done cleft grafts in the past with good success, but my scionwood was limited this year and not putting two pieces of scion in the cleft can make for an ugly wound. So after doing that a few times, I forced myself to knuckle down and try these. Side whip and tongue came pretty naturally. The side-lap/z-graft took a little longer to get the hang of but since the two pieces of wood are parallel, I feel like it's easier to really cinch it down when wrapping, even with just parafilm, which is all I really use. One other observation, I prefer a single bevel knife for making the slash cut that creates the whip, but like my double bevel opinel 8 for for making the tongue cut. The single bevel gives a flatter cut, and the double seems to make a more even, clean tongue cut. This is mostly for bench grafting. Great content as always, thank you!
Glad you tried it. I used it a whole lot this year.
Double french cleat saddle graft? Neat graft.(at 24:00)
Sure, sounds good to me!
This helped me so much. Thank you. Time will tell, but I I think I have a 100% take on the small scion grafts I did.
Awesome. Some of my very late grafts didn't do to well, but most of these took, and overall it was a good year.
Thank you. I am going to start grafting. Purchased rootstock and scions. 10 different varieties golden russet, lady, northern spy, wismer`s dessert, wolf river, gano, foxwhep, black twig, and Baldwin, famous,.. You inspired me to try.
Awsome Jim. Good luck!
Exactly what I needed to get ready for grafting today. I've got a few 2 year old scions of Pilot that I rehydrated and they started to push, so we'll see what happens.
Good luck with those. Remember, dessication is the real enemy so just think in terms of keeping that moisture in long enough to get a healed union.
So glad I found this - just grafting a ton of skinny stuff today. Although some my scions are even skinnier than yours ;)
(especially Wickson, Golden Nugget, Kerry Pippin).
same principals apply, just the skinnier they are the more likely they are to dry out. seal well and shade them with something.
Got the same posting problem with some cherry scions this year, all the buds were pushing when i received them. Grafted them straight away. Now wait and see.
yep, happens all the time.
I had a half snapped off branch from a pear tree, no thicker than my pinkie finger, that I tried to splint and wrap to let it heal last year. Obviously it didn't heal fully as it broke again, so I've experimented with regrafting it even though it has leaves and flowers already. It's not really in the right spot for a branch anyway, it was there when I bought it and already had fruiting spurs so I decided to keep it.
It was at a bad angle too, so I cut it back close to the tree and did a vertical cleft graft, setting it in at a better angle. We shall see how it goes!
Don't let it have any leaves until the graft heals. A plastic bag over it all might help too.
I use that last graft with an added cut into both the scion & the host in the center of each so that they slid into one another. Seems to help with stability. Yeah have no idea what that’s called.
I occasionally use that graft at 25:35. Some people call it a "Z graft". I have tried it with longer bark flaps at the notches and the callous often quickly encloses the tips. Worked for grafting 1/2" cherry scion to 3/4" rootstock, similar results with a couple persimmons.
I like Z graft. There are also strap grafts, where you leave a strip from making the long cut and run it over o the other side of the stock, so it runs across the stub cut. I'm going to try that out a little this year if I can remember. I get in habits and then just do that on autopilot. Right now, I'm mostly doing versions of this Z
Thanks for the vid..tried grafting for the first time this year used electric tape lol wrapped tight though! Hoping for the best
I know people that use just electrical tape. It's works great. Sometimes it will peel off a little bark. One guy told me he just uses it upside down. Eliza Greenman said that is mostly what she uses and that is never constricts.
Glad to know you can use it most people have some on hand
Things are weird where I am regarding travel because of lockdowns, so I had to take a bunch of scions in sterile compost in a ziploc bag to graft them later. They were already budding and I just managed to graft some of them the other day; some had started to grow leaves despite being left in the fridge. Hope they graft OK!
Good luck!
I dip sprouting scionwood in wax works great.(cheese wax)
I haven't done any wax dipping, but I'm interested. It would be a good way to process scionwood for sale. Cheers.
Interesting. I have some old beeswax I could try. How hot do you have to get your cheese wax before it melts? I wonder if something like lard would work well too...
I need to try these cuts.
For me it is easiest to wrap the scions completely with parafilm before making the actual graft cuts. Then I use rubber grafting/budding bands for securing the joint, I found the parafilm acts too much like taffy for the mechanical connection. I get two full coverage wrapping layers from one rubber band, out and back, stretching it almost fully. The rubber elasticity really seems to help compress the graft faces together. While the rubber does degrade it takes a full year in my climate so I cut the rubber during or at the end of the first grow season.
The bands I have are 8"x3/8" and 6"x1/4", both 0.02" thick; athough thinner .016 bands are available from some sources if working with more delicate plant materials. Most office rubber bands are a thicker material than this, but maybe could be used as a single wrap. Store in dark and ziplock and they last many years. (The purpose made rubber bands are like $2-3 for 20 at raintree, or $30/lb from am leonard, 450--2000/lb depending on size.)
I use office rubber bands with good results 👍
Thanks, there are so many things you can wrap with. I've used rubber bands, but not a lot. I know some use them almost exclusively though. I should get a bunch and make myself use them for a year just to get a feel for their advantages and disadvantages. It's nice to have a few options too.
I generally secure my grafts with strips of potting soil bags (a suggestion from you I believe) and then I use the parafilm around the scion after that as you usually use the grafting wax. So the parafilm for me is just a way that I can wrap it and forget it - since I generally forget anyway. When I first got into grafting years ago I got one of those gimmicky grafting tools (terrible idea) and it came with what was basically a roll of plastic wrap. It seemed to hold in moisture AND the buds. And the wrap wouldn't stay on like I wanted it to since it doesn't get sticky like parafilm does when you stretch it. I went the parafilm route when I also saw that the gallon tubs were all that were available. It was nice grafting for my in-laws several states away knowing that I would only need to tell them half a year later to unwrap the potting soil bag strips, and that I could trust that the grafts would just heal and then push out when they were ready! Also, I really appreciate that you send out the high quality stuff - the ones I got from you this year were great! I'm going to hopefully finish putting them on my frankentree today!
That sounds like a good system. I don't know if I've wrapped a single scion up with parafilm yet lol. It's just not in my head yet to do that. It is probably more effective than painting I would imagine. I try to send out just bigger scion wood whenever I have it. If there is limited supply, or it's a naturally skinny variety, or rare, I send out smaller ones. Better small scion wood than no scion wood!
@@SkillCult Yeah, I've had great success especially now that I actually time my grafts a little bit better. I'm not going to try and convince you to use parafilm when what you do clearly works! Though I could see it being easier to use on those small scions once you are used to how it stretches and assuming it doesn't break down too much to hold the union before the healing has finished. I first started using parafilm because I was looking for a better way to keep in humidity when chip bud grafting my peaches. The roll was so huge I just use it for everything now.
I graft then wax, have the wax al a low as you can temp without it being thick, have a pot of water next to the wax dipping from wax to water.
I’m talking about bench grafting but you could do the same in the field.
I appreciate the support! Procrastination is totally my enemy. I’m scared to graft for the first time 😭 and mess it all up but I know I can’t wait any longer!
You could grab a few cuttings left over from pruning and just practice grafting some sticks.
@@Copyright-di4we thanks for the tip! I’m planning on doing that. Glad I didn’t graft yet. We had two nights of freezing and all the leaves on the mulberries died.
Don't be afraid to fail, it's just part of the process. As long as you are trying to extract some lessons from it. And def practice, re: copyright's advice. make the grafts, and squeeze them. if the cuts close and the edges line up, you're good. If not, work on making flat cuts.
@@SkillCult thanks! Definitely need work on the flat cuts! Even if they don’t take, I’ve got more experience now than I did last year. Soaking my apple scions for tomorrow like you recommended 😊
Better to do it wrong now then not at all. I had a handful of scions fail the first time I grafted
Thanks for the video, interesting stuff! In what situation do leave your scions in water overnight? Does that make a big difference?
if there is any doubt about how hydrated they are, or if they have been sitting around a long time. It never hurts and can often help.
I just got some really wimpy quince scionwood (from a commercial nursery) and will try the bark graft you demonstrated. Might try the Doc's to coat my grafted scions too. What's with the 'Buddy Grafting Tape'?- pricey but some grafters are giving it rave reviews. Have you tried it?
bark graft is a real good option for skinny scions. I have not tried buddy tape. it's too expensive for my tastes. It would have to do something really special over other options. I can buy a huge roll of budding pvc tape for under 1.00 that will last me a whole season of grafting and then some usually. I do have to cut it off, but still. I'm sure its good, just not sure it is that good.
Did you find that Doc Farwell's Seal and Heal did indeed work as well as Doc Farwell's Grafting Seal? Were the buds able to emerge from it?
Yeah, I use it all the time now. I have not compared side by side, but it really seems pretty much the same. If anything, slightly thicker. It does seem to thin with water, but I don't anymore.
Anyone know if there is a video on rooting scion cuttings?
I don't have any, but I have seen at least one or rooting apple cuttings with hormones. it can be done, but it's not reliable as far as I know.
Great video. Been looking for some helpful instructions when grafting in lateral direction. Handling the grafting knife is still challenging for me. Most people only teach, or know how to graft scions in an upward direction. Is lateral grafting less good for any reason?
I'm not sure what you mean. Just facing to the side instead of up?
@@SkillCult Yeah horizontal instead of vertical, for the attached scion direction. I don't know why most tutorials I find only show the graft on a hewn trunk or rootstock, always for a new verticle scion to become the new leader.
Stephen- after topworking an apple I need to whitewash the trunk but what about the remaining nurse branch? Do I paint all the smaller branches and twigs or just the oldest bark? Thanks.
If sun is going to hit it, it's safest to whitewash. In some climates it is totally unnecessary, but until you know... Horizontal and angled branches are even more vulnerable than trunks. Undersides and north sides shouldn't need anything, but just imagine hot sun from straight above to 45 degrees east/south and west and protect those areas.
@@SkillCult Thank you. After top-working apple do you find that the highest grafts get most of the new growth and apical dominance sort of starves the lower down grafts? Just dawned on me my lower grafts may not do well. G 30 rootstock, Goldrush up top and Keepsake on bottom tier. I could notch above the lower tier branches???
How long do you keep your scions in the bag. And in the fridge or frezer
Under good conditions they can be kept for months. Not too wet and sealed so they don't dry out. Some damp sawdust is good, but just damp, not wet.
awesome dude. i was wondering if you can graft on a already grafted 5 years old tree? it has 6 main branches of thumb thickness and im considering changing 2 of them to a different variety.
absolutely! I have a long grafting series. One of the videos talks about that and I havce a few others that do as well. ua-cam.com/video/MkbZfkl64tQ/v-deo.html and ua-cam.com/play/PL60FnyEY-eJAWNlofdsx0G81aycmAW1U8.html
@@SkillCult thanks man wonderful channel. im glad found you
Does sprouting always indicate a take for a graft or can a scion push buds using its own resources and then dry out?
They can definitely push out ahead and dry out. If you see good rapid extension and the leaves are getting bigger fast, it is probably healed. Others will come out, but then stall before dying.
Did I ever thank you for posting your grafting videos?
All my grafts last season failed.
This season a small percentage have not sprouted yet but others are already putting on good growth.
I think the point you made about offsetting a scion to the outside of one side to make sure there is full cambium contact at least on that side.
So I think I might have "centered" my scions which were too small and so there just was not enough good contact.
I still do not quite understand why we cannot prune and graft at the same time in late winter.
Why do we have to prune fully dormant and then graft 4-6 weeks later?
THX, W
You may be able to get away with pruning and collecting scion wood and grafting at the same time. I basically can here. If it's not so cold that they freeze so hard that the scions die, or it's not super dry and very cold, so they dry out before there is any healing. Try it! I have grafted in February here many times. But it's not very cold. Some fruit tree scions can take a pretty good freeze, but there is a limit.
@@SkillCult Ahhh... now I get it. The graft should not freeze once done.
It takes me a while to grasp things.
Last year every graft was doing OK and then we got a real late hard freeze.
This year I stored them in the fridge til later and most are doing better.
THX
Have any of your original apple seedlings (the trees with their own roots, not grafted to dwarfing rootstock) fruited? If so, how many years did they take to fruit? I have about 30 seedlings in gallon pots that I started this spring that I am going to plant this fall. I'm not sure I want to try and graft them to rootstock, but may eventually graft some of their branches to a frankentree. Do you know of any tricks to make standard apple trees fruit faster? Thanks. I love your videos. Dan Minet
I've had a number of seedlings (as opposed to grafts) fruit. Some are precocious - perhaps 2 in every 100 will fruit in 5 years. Most of the rest take 7-8 years; some take 10 years. I have one 11 years old which has still not fruited.
Only a couple actually. But they are barely surviving all crowded together. Took 10 years for one and 11 for the next. People claim that a lot of things will work to make them fruit faster, but they almost never offer any personal experience or evidence. not only may it take a long time to fruit, but stuff grafted on may also, even if it is scionwood from bearing trees. But probably not 10 years hopefully. But standard seedling rootstock often takes time to come into bearing when grafted and dwarfs can come into bearing almost right away.
@@SkillCult Great to see how much attention your videos are attracting. Always good content.
Is that red crab at the beginning of the video a Roberts crab?? I've been looking for that tree
A guy sent it to me. He found it growing in a midwest city and called it Ctown red. It is very primitive. I have roberts grafted, but it has not fruited yet. maybe this year.
@@SkillCult nice! I look forward to getting my hands on Roberts crab, seems to be a lot more present in the uk
Great work. If I may suggest; can you cut a clip of your knife safety vid. I think it would be great for everyone to refresh every yr. Bonus it would get a lot of views... thanks again.
Maybe I'll just make a new video about common grafting knife accidents or something like that.
@@SkillCult "move your hand, not your fingers" is a good mantra if you don't want to stick yourself in the thumb
3:06 is that tap water? is it ok chlorinated tap water?
you probably could all my water is from a spring. I would probably leave it out overnight or boil for a few minutes just in case.
At 15:20- is that bed full of seed you started? Or how did you make that bed?
So, those are last years apple seedlings that were cut off and grafted onto foundation trees to fruit. This year they are being grafted to my seedling varieties to grow more trees for more scions and to sell. I figures I produce all these rootstocks every year, why not just graft them! I start the seeds in flats in the greenhouse, then plant them out into those beds to grow for the summer.
@@SkillCult so awesome
If you don't have enough places to graft onto, have you ever tried grafting small scions onto the base of short fruiting spurs? Will they accept a graft?
Yes, that can work. It may not grow as vigorously, I don't know about that. but Iv'e done it a bunch and they take fine. You can also graft into the sides of branches.
Does anyone have experience grafting pear Scion wood to apple rootstock? I find very mixed information about weather it's possible or not. I would like to graft asian pear to wild apple seedlings.
I've tried grafting asian pear to quince C - is stable for about 3 years, then dies. With comice interscion - dies after about 3 years. Apple stocks - not used them but worth the experiment. Asian pear grafts well onto common pear. I've also tried grafting onto home-grown asian pear seedlings. The resulting trees are highly susceptible to fungus around the graft and lower stem and rarely survive more than 2-3 years.
Hi Steve - hope the apple breeding goes well.
Hey Steven, sorry to report that none of the seeds I got from you sprouted. Been in seed starting mix for a few weeks. Maybe I did something wrong? Soil was consistently moist and under light
I actually started a blog post yesterday on sprouting apple seeds. Not sure if/when it will come out, but maybe today! If you are experienced in propagating seeds, you probably haven't kept them too wet, but that is a common mistake that can cause rotting. More than likely, they are under there alive, but dormant. It can take a while, but usually some should be up by now. Last year I had some difficult seeds that I ended up putting through cold and warm cycles, which woke them up. I put them in the fridge (in the soil), for a couple days, then out for a day or two and did that 2 or 3 times. All my seeds should be chilled enough as they have been in the fridge since harvested, or in the apples in cold storage, or hanging in the apples outside for very late apples. my own germ rates are probably around 80% I would guess. I'm totally unsophisticated about it though. I just plant them in flats in an unheated greenhouse and let them do their thing. Are they warm? Maybe dig in there and see if you can find any dormant seeds. If so, I'd either add warmth if they are cold, or put them through a few cold and warm cycles to see if that wakes them up.
Someone told me they planted theirs in the ground and most of them came up the next year. If there is a single trick to shocking them out of dormancy when they are resistant, I think it's going to be warm and cold cycling. In the future, I may also experiment with soaking in weak compost tea before planting.
@@SkillCult thank you for the write-up. I will read the blog post too. I'll try planting them and seeing what happens!
@@wtfrankian So they aren't planted?
@@SkillCult they are in seed starting mix in a flat, under grow lights