Weighted Normal | Blender 2.8x Tutorial
Вставка
- Опубліковано 9 лют 2020
- creativeshrimp.com - Learn more!
Weighted Normal is one of those Blender 2.8x modifiers that are game-changers for hardsurface modeling. Watch to learn how it can fit your 3D modeling workflow.
2.8x Free HSM Update | UA-cam playlist: • Hard-surface Modeling ...
Hard-surface Modeling on BlenderMarket: blendermarket.com/products/ha...
Hard-surface Modeling on Gumroad: gumroad.com/l/HardSurfaceMode...
Socials:
Gleb | UA-cam: / glebalexandrov
Aidy | UA-cam: / @aidyburrows3d
Gleb | Twitter: / gleb_alexandrov
Aidy | Twitter: / aidyburrows3d
Facebook: / creativeshrimp
Artstation: www.artstation.com/artist/gle...
Instagram: / gleb.alexandrov - Фільми й анімація
p.s. English subtitles available (proofreaded, edited) in case you need that.
proofread
Read (pronounced red, like the color) is past tense of read (pronounced reed, grass-like plant)
its the biggest gamechanger imo , its so awesome , i know 3dsmax got this late as a script or plugin i dont know anymore and payed , but blender's so much easier to use . i can now finally model the stuff i want so fast and so easy to add detail to everything, boolean + chamfer/bevel + weighted normals is a force to reckon with
im so happy , blender developers are real heros
@Layne Reece such a clown
Teacher, I'M BRAZILIAN AND I'M ATTENDING YOUR CLASS. REALLY ENJOYED. THANKS
As an old CAD designer learning new skills with Blender, this tutorial is such a HUGE help. Your explanation of how Blender uses the vertex data is so clear and concise. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. It has made such a difference to my understanding. Thank you. Dg
I have a feeling that someone who truly understands this can make low poly models really shine. I've actually gone back and "fixed" some of my old models after watching this video and the difference is pretty crazy. In some cases I could lower the poly count by a lot and still get a better result!?
Your videos and the depth of them have come a long way. One of the best, most clear and well explained tutorials for Blender I've ever seen. Keep up the good work.
i've learned about face weight normals from star citizen many moons ago, and i think it's amazing technique. Thats why star citizen doesnt use normal maps on hard surface and it looks like 8k textures. Much love Gleb!
Huge help. I can say that I never really understood shading issues before watching this.
I was struggling really hard with this concept for a long time and it finally clicked recently for me for whatever reason thanks to this video. I found it really frustrating not having good control over the normals of my models and it's such a relief to finally be able to solve these sorts of issues. A big thank you for creating this video, really appreciate it.
No way this video contributed in such a way to your understanding of normals! It's so kind of you to say that :)
"Keep edges" works well with the geometry input node's "pointiness" for making mildew type stains and even faking ambient occlusion
This helped me with some weird normal shading bug from importing an old model into the new blender 2.92, so thanks for this unexpected help :D Plus this is just really good info to know!
Thx. This video explained mea LOT in a nice way. Finally I understand what is going on there. Appreciate it a lot. Very nicely prepered examples and graphics.
Thks very much, man! U helped me solving a problem about the normals that I couldn't fix before!
I've never been so concentrated and had all my attention sucked into such an informative video! Very well formatted, keep making videos like this!
Thank you for your generous compliment! We try to ensure that our tutorials are informative and to the point. :)
jingles are perfect XD Thans for doing this!
amazing video, You solve a lot of questions in just 20 minutes
Superb vid! Helped we figure out the issue, using the one thing you didn't cover vertex groups and the weighted normal modifier.
Excellent, thank you Gleb
Great introduction about normals from someone coming from Maya! Appreciated!
EXCELLENT! Thx:) Keep up the great work...
Oh wow, I really wish just a quarter of all the Blender videos out there would be just as half as informative and well structured as this one!
You're too kind, thank you!
Fantastic explanation, this has bugged me for a while. Thanks!
This video helped me to solve some issue with normals on my mesh thanks :)
I will save this video and use it all the time
Very interesting and useful. Thanks for your video and this has also answered a big question about why Edge Normal doesn't exist but here i am findind that actually normals are not useful without a face.
Yay! I've never been this early to your videos before!!!
:D
This is a very nice technique to make game assets quickly, it doesn't require a normal map, we also call this new technique medium poly modeling.
Explain?
@@IGarrettI Using single edge chamfers and weighted normals means you don't have to bake your asset from a high poly, it increases the triangle count but has massive potential to save on texture memory (textures often being many times more expensive to render than just geometry)
This is very helpful. Thank you
Thanks. It really helps.
this sould fix my daily boolean error, hopefully i need no more fix that issues with more pre loopcuts again :-). Thanks a lot for that info
this + boolean videos + bevel + weld modifier will most certainly help along the way to better pro-boolean ops.
Gouraud will always have a special place in my heart though.
_Twinsen, rush to the downtown pharmacy and find a cure for the Dino-Fly!_
Great tutorial by the way, thanks. The pacing and information load felt just about right.
you save my day. thanks you
What a usefull tuto :)
Thank you veru much !
thank you Jo!
Gouraud is a type of smooth shading just like Phong. Calling all smooth shading as Gouraud is inaccurate. A good explanation of normals and shading in Blender, nevertheless!
Nice. Thats informative. Please make more for modeling tips. Good luck.
will do!
Thank you! Someone had to tell about this.
Thanks Glab 👍
Love the video :3
The keep sharp feature of the weighted normal modfier is usefull for game art. Saves a little bit on runtime performance since it´s one less face to render for each sharp edge
lol
@@goku21youtub ?
1-i'm using keep sharp when baking tangent normalmaps from high to lowpoly, and i turn all my uv seams to hard edge so the normalmap could contain less gradient (good for compression and mipmaps), but still need the area weightned vertex normal because of better render ray cast direction (less "bended" highpoly details projected on lowpoly with that weighting
2-still cool on midpoly/lowpolys where i don't need the bevel or "gradient" effect, it just gives a clean, sharp corner (mostly on inner corners are not in the front of the viewer). saves tri number, still gives good shading.
Excellent overview!
thank you!
Man i was using edge split to solve these errors for a long while. It worked but still had problems. So this will be nice
Thanks bro! 👊
youre a god.
very nice
This is great, thanks!
i hope it was helpful :)
I didn’t expect to see you here WangleLine :) i’m a fan of your videos!
I am so close to understanding this. I will watch it a few more times and try harder.
Ha ha. Full circle. Here I am again... I've been using this modifier but I've not been sure why it helps, I just know that in some situations it works and I've decided to do my research and find out what Im doing... and here I am. :) this time it makes a lot more sense than 11 months ago. Thanks Gleb.
good man
Спасибо! Толково обьяснил. Кстати момент про Keep Sharp Edges
Для примера с кубом штука конечно ненужная. Но я вот сейчас делаю мидполи архитектурные модули, типо стена с дверным проёмом, с окном, итд. Так вот там фаска нужна только на внешнем углу окна, а на самих стенах и на внутренних углах проёма фаски не нужны, иначе при стыковке друг с другом будут видны швы из фасок. Так вот, эта галочка позволяет "сглаживать" углы с фаской, в то же время оставляя все остальные острые углы без фасок с адекватным плоским шейдингом. Без этой галочки либо выходит бардак с нормалями либо надо везде мутить бевел, что не целесообразно. Надеюсь адекватно обьяснил)
Thanks!
Спасибо огромное! Узнал много нового!
Nice one Gleb! I was looking forward to see your take on this subject. Well explained :)
Unfortunately, depending on you geo it's quite impossible to find a setting that suits it all. I find myself tweaking the weights quite a lot on my workflow.
Agree, it depends on the context so much. is it medium-poly or low-poly, how bevels are utilized, so on and so forth.
Youre awesome.
very nice.
at 5:45 when you talk about vertex normals (not split vertex normals), do you know if that's something that can be edited? For example, can you rotate a vertex normal?
It seems like the the displace modifier > direction > normal uses vertex normals to determine the direction displacement happens, and what I want to be able to do is to rotate the vertex normal in order to manipulate the direction of that displacement.
Ahh I couldn't watch this video all the way through but still gonna comment! :3
i appreciate it, Agniv. :)
Shouldn't the auto smooth option do the same as the Weighted Normals modifier?
Of course hard edges are usable - for first to use them you must have auto smooth enabled. This shading technique was heavily used at game production as it helpes contain less extreme gradients on normal maps, when baking from high poly. It connects also to uv mapping and vertex count, as making hard edges splits the vertex normal so in fact the rendered vertex number grows. Weighted normals and bevels are used at Star Citizen because at the time of its release mid spec hardware should handle that number of geometry easier, hovewer you can't go that high with tris (and bevels create many of them) in every situation.
Weighted normals are used in star citizen mainly due to the sheer size of the assets. It would be far too expensive to do traditional high to low baking for large ships in terms of texture memory as well as time, and high to low baking is not very flexible when it comes to making changes. The ships range from small fighters to massive battleships that are basically flying levels, and using a combination of weighted normals, POM decals, as well as tiling materials makes sure that the pipeline is standardized across every asset and changes are fairly easy to make because there is nothing to bake and the underlying geometry can be edited fairly easily.
@@AlexTsekot Last year was crazy, and in a few years triangles number might even almost not matter at all. Star Citizen is created for this new generation, which is not there yet, so all others games still must watch for geometry, of course things change from case to case. Also not all engines are and not all will be capable of handling this workflow, so all this knowledge should be in ambitious professionalist's head.
Спасибо, хорошее видео
Any idea if there’s an addon to control the normal weights per selected faces instead of the whole object with a modifier? The best I’ve found is YAVNE… but it doesn’t have all the features
Much needed
(ᵔᴥᵔ)
@@GlebAlexandrov i am unable to texture the parts kitbashed using kitops....what should I do and Is Rizom UV that much useful for texturing?
My newbie question: is the smoothing groups and weighter normals universaly interpreted by all the softwares? For example to model here, and texture there, interchangeable?
HSM newbie here, but does "Mark sharp" work the same way as "weighted 100" or they work differently? I've been manually marking edges sharp for flat surfaces and feeling dumb about it.
@@xXGeth270Xx Thank you my friend!
Hello. after use "Mesh - Normal - Set from faces" value "Auto smooth" not working, gray color
Looks very interresting for video games developpers / artists, do those vertex weighted normal can be use in a real-time engine like Unity or Unreal ? Good job, thanks !
You can export objects with the default smooth shading, I wonder if it works for weighted yeah
Yes it works, this will be my default game modeling workflow I think.
Hey, I'm pretty new to modeling. Are these changes in shading retained when exporting the models out of blender and using them elsewhere, like in UE4 for example?
In my experience with Unity, and a few other programs, yes the vertex normals and face normals are saved with the file, even in simple .obj files.
This is one of the reasons we're making a plugin for Blender & UE4, called Brigge for Meshes. FBX, OBJ, glTF all drop some aspects of your model during export/import. We use a custom format that respects all the work you put into your models.
See gawain.industries for more info & to follow our progress.
Sure, in my experience you export the mesh and then tick the import normals and tangents in UE4 during the import phase to keep your weighted normals. Not sure in Unity.
I do a lot of sculpting, but from time to time i come back to blender and whenever anything related to normal confuses me, this is my go to video.
where the hell do you get this tab with normals and all ? i have nothing like this
Regarding the use of the keep sharp checkbox in the modifier: I had to put this checkbox on my lowpoly model, which I created in the process of retopology high-poly to low-poly. Without this flag, I had terrible distortions in the reflection of light from the surface. After applying weighted normal and applying the keep sharp checkbox, there are still some minor shading problems. It looks like small creases on the surface when viewed in matcap mode. I haven't solved this problem yet, and I'm afraid that after baking, artifacts will remain on my low-poly model. Below I attached a screenshot of the viewport with the keep sharp checkbox enabled and disabled on my model, as well as with the display of normals. I have enabled striped matcap so that these distortions are more noticeable in my example. If any of you know how to solve this problem, please reply to me in the comment. I can also add that on this model, I marked all sharp edges with Mark sharp and set Auto-smooth to 180 degrees.
drive.google.com/file/d/1_xAiHd7lqd0eSD93JSHlEVw-qMRDj33O/view?usp=share_link
did you try adding an edge spit modifier
14:45 Gleb, you need hard edges for gamedev, lowpoly pipeline.
@Csősz Máté Not true at all, there are still very much poly budgets for game assets and while yes they are not nearly as strict as they used to be a decade ago, they are still in place. Also sub pixel triangles can cause their own issues (aliasing) depending on the capabilities of your game engine.
Would it be possible to bake weighted normals onto a normal map, or are the weighted normals able to be exported to other programs? Great video by the way, thanks for showing explaining this.
In order to export it to other programs, we just have to enable the 'apply modifiers' checkbox on export. Alternatively we can apply the modifier and make sure we have the 'write normals' check box set to on on export (at least, that holds true for the .obj exporter).
@@GlebAlexandrov Thank you very much!
been trying my best, but everything seems a bit overwhelming 😅
Gleb didn't have his coffee
searched for copper, found gold
1:29 - shaky cam screen capturing? bold choice!
just shaking with pureref app. No magic.
@@jirimasak7483 wow, super nice app. i didn't know it. Thanks!
There already is a hotkey to turn the viewport into wireframe. The hotkey is Z then just press 4 for Wireframe.....
12:33 you're welcome
Read it way too late :(
I use sharp edges All the time in my game.
To be honest I didn't know the sharp edges before yesterday however even before find the Sharp edge modifier in my model I use combination of flat serfese and smooth.
Most off my models are made for video game so it's icentsal to make sure that those model's don't have unessery polygons.
Because of this wean I want to make model that have some part flat and other smooth I use flat smooth serfese and Sharp edge.
Also wean make weapon's for my game blade's and stuff like I want this blade to be Sharp on the edge same with many other situation's like mention
It's true most people don't use comenetion of Sharp and smooth edges I and flat and and smooth serfese like i do but with my experience the model's i create looks better in that way.
So I don't care if very little amount of people use comenetion off of flat and smooth or not 😅. L
Hi Gleb. I'm facing an issue that I think has not been discussed in your otherwise great video. I want to create a tileable wall mesh. I use a simple plane with a displace modifier & noise texture. The shading does look fine when I then use an array modifier and have the "merge" option enabled. But when I simply copy the wall mesh side by side (like array modifier "merge" disabled), the shading is wrong, a seam is strongly visible. Thanks to you video I knew about split normals so I checked them and it shows that both ends of the wall mesh point in different directions.
Here is an example of what I mean:
imgur.com/a/5YQX89Y
imgur.com/a/yNnzv0s
... the split normals get changed and I tried lots of modifiers that affect normals. I also tried weight painting. I have no more ideas on how to fix this and am also unsure if it's possible to fix at all :-/
You might have better luck getting advice on Reddit or Facebook or something
You obviously have the skill for 3d modelling but this video was so tough to understand!
And for context I teach for a living so I'm used to spend my days trying to find the best ways to make my students digest whatever I need them to learn.
A few keys about how to get your videos, or at least this one easier to understand:
- the visuals are great so don't change them, these were really helpful and are super clean, good job there!
- However : try to put yourself in the shoes of beginners, even if you're talking to people who already have some experience. Repetition is the key to teaching/learning, and sometimes hearing it again with different words is what's going to trigger understanding, so don't worry about people who already have some knowledge of 3d, instead make sure that everyone (including the fully beginners) can already have a grasp of what you're talking about, even a superficial one
- In your case, you use a lot of technical words such as vertex normal, split vertex normal, face normals, etc : try to make the concept easy to understand with simpler words, take visual examples of flat surfaces such as a table, the roundness around the edge of a mug or whatever, examples from daily life, then use your pictures and diagrams, and then only reveal the technical terms applied to it. Most people can understand these easier concepts and are actually interested in it, but if you overflow their brain with complicated words it'll make them believe it's way too complicated, even if it's not really the case
- in this case, theory should act as support for execution : show how you would approach modelling something, and then explain the underlying theory behind it. Here you started with the theory and then near the end only showed a few practical examples. In my opinion it should be the other way around : at some point, you said "the video will make more send at the end". This is rarely the case. If you lost your audience at some point, you lose them altogether. That's why when you're a kid classrooms are so stressful, because you're under a tremendous amount of pressure to not lose focus, because you know that if you get lost, the rest of the lesson is basically wasted.
Video was still helpful, but I feel it could have been way more as I feel you definitely have the knowledge, just lacking a few perspective on how to share it more efficiently.
Hope it helps a bit!
Also sorry for the long comment, the video did frustrate me a bit, haha
All in all it's just another brick in the wall :)
))
sadly a week too late, I needed it for my engineer thesis :(
ouch! did you manage to prepare the thesis?
You speak like G-man :D
Good normals come from good geometry, where n-gons are not allowed.
Idk why this face-biased smoothing is not standart/choice for shading in all game engines. Way to bypass for timetaking hi-poly to normalmap baking
What the hell is a normal anyways? .. you never do explain this
ua-cam.com/video/L3oCQEwtMLI/v-deo.html
it's a thing (vector) that points "straight out" from the thing you're talking about. So for faces, it shows exactly which way it's facing, and you can use that to calculate things like the angle that light bounces off (because it depends on the way the face is orientated, which is what the normal tells you)
Gleb's saying that the actual face normals aren't used for those rendering calculations though - the shading happens between the vertices. So a face has a bunch of vertices, and if those vertices all have the same normals, every part of that face is "pointing the same way" and it's flat as far as the lighting calculations go.
But if a vertex is pointing a different direction than another, then as you shade between them you have to gradually go from one direction to the other, which looks like a smooth curve (think of the normal rotating as you move across the face). So this video is basically about the ways you can tweak where those vertex normals point, and how those gradual transitions are handled to make some faces look curvy and others look flat
Good tutorial but blender handles this so poorly. This should be a 1 click option. For a cube it's simple but wehen you're dealing with thousands of assetsd this is a pain in the ass
great lesson, but too much talk
I literally cannot listen to your voice. Just something about it just makes me want to scream.
having a... normal one
20 минут рассказывать то, что можно объяснить за 5 минут. Потратил зря время
бле, чел сделал бесплатный топовый видос, а ты жалуешься
@@klickstoppark9410 я не жалуюсь, а объясняю причину негодования, можно сказать что это отзыв .Что с этим делать, уже каждый решает кто прочитает
20 minutes abt this??? Really?