1963: HOW LOCAL IS YOUR LOCAL? | Tonight | Voice of the People | BBC Archive
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- As areas of Salford were being flattened for new development, Julian Pettifer went to look at some of the few remaining buildings which were left standing. While their days may also have been numbered, the pubs of Hanky Park were still being frequented by loyal, longstanding customers, some of whom travelled miles to carry on drinking at their 'local'.
Clip taken from Tonight, originally broadcast on BBC One, Tuesday 30 April, 1963.
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The pubs were a way back to the past for these men, to what was left of everything they had ever known and they travelled miles to get there, just to find somewhere they felt they belonged. Now they would be gone too. Quite a moving film really.
Pub's are still a very strong part of our culture, in fact, it's still here, in my local everyone knows me, in fact i'm known in the whole village and everyone knows each other where i live.
This isn't really the past, i wouldn't worry about it, i see people like this all the time..
@@delong8998when you say you are known to the rest of the villagers, could you please explain how and why? Thanks.
@@GeorgeSmith1066I speak to a lot of different people when im in a pub and get to know them and have a laugh, you'll see the same people in the pub much like this video, these people live locally and ill see them walking amongst the village, makes it so that when i walk to the shop ill stop and say hello to at least 3-5 people on my way, it's lovely here where i live, amazing just outside london, still in the south, and still much like this.
Reminds me of O’connels in white teeth
Those brand new tower blocks were pulled down in 2014.
Where abouts was they? Road name etc? Would love to look at the area now.
@@JakeP-bb5hh I believe it's around Pendleton in Salford
@@ilikethiskindatube I saw after I watched the video. It’s very different now Thankyou.
Some are still there. But yeah, they lasted 40yrs.
What an ominous ending, seeing these 'distinguished and elegant' high rises and knowing just how well they are going to work out for their residents. The music at the end makes me think of the end of Blackadder goes forth.
The biggest problem, as it strikes me, is that the midcentury style of planning was overly-focused on what the project looks like when viewed from the sky. For people in planes to think "that looks nice" as they go on their holiday. There was no real emphasis on what it was like down on the ground, with poor sightlines and an unfriendly scale.
@@kaitlyn__L Plus absolutely no consideration given to continuity of community. These planner just thought they could split up centuries old communities and then move people who have never met together and it would all work out. Stalin would have been proud of them.
When a pub closes few spare a thought to the local community. Friends lose contact, pub teams are lost and a way of life dies. Most people had a sense of loyalty and pride to their regular pub as can be seen here. As someone whos seen three old regular pubs close I can feel for these peoples loss.
Wow Julian Pettifer is 89 in a couple of weeks
I used to watch him on TV back in the early 70’s
Great Journalist
🏴🏴🏴❤️❤️👍 👍
The authentic voice of Lancs.
Always surprises me in these old interviews how well spoken everyone was, even the drunk 'working class' people seemed calmer and more reflective and self aware.
Wetherspoons is a local with its soul kicked out.
To be fair to Wetherspoons, you can still meet your mates there and have a good time and the drinks are well priced, just like these old pubs, but I think that's it's the culture that's changed more than anything. In fact, culture of any kind has been pretty much dead for the past 20 years. Strange time's we're living in..
@@Danceswithbugs This. Been fortunate enough that I have a god group of friends who still meet up and who I have a tangible friendship with. Know an uncomfortable amount of people that have almost entirely digital friendships. So connected but so disconnected at the same time. No wonder the world seems so glum apart from the times I'm with my boys. It's getting harder to think that things will get better.
Wetherspoons has saved a lot of historical buildings from being demolished
Ive always called Wspoons the mcdonalds of pubs
@@Danceswithbugs internet age. people aren't as keen to go out as often now. a pub becomes the hub of the community if people are in there often. not every few weeks.
The Pub was the hub of the community.
was....
not anymore. shame really
@@nmoore1988 people aren't desperate to get out the house now
@@sacred1827 And the expense of things nowadays isn't helping matters either.
Sounds depressing if that was the case
@@SK-kh2rs how? pubs are great
"Distinguished and elegant" is not quite how I would describe the 60's obsession with decimating communities and historic architecture and replacing it all with isolating brutalist concrete monoliths.
For distinguished and elegant the zeitgeist read elitist and refined. They sought a utopian style that struck a new note of common identity but it was obviously doomed
@@pgs1796 they're now back in charge of the country
@@johnmurray5573 Tories were in 57-63 when most of this happened.
@@thrashstronaut but the idea had been sold well. the destruciotn of communities and the creation of new ones to reshape the citizens was a purely soviet idea. it tended to falter under the tories but everyone had bought into the propoganda.
@@user-pb4xt4rg3z Never the Tories fault is it.
It's almost as if town planners never learn from their predecessors' mistakes.
No, they have learned. Thats why they do it.
No mistake - they just don't give a monkey's
"And this is their dream...something altogether more distinguished and elegant" *cuts to a soulless Orwellian concrete monstrosity*
That landscape is just extraordinary.
Feel very sad at how they were effectively erased. What a loss.
The area of Hanky Park was demolished in the 1960s and replaced by high-rise flats. Sadly, only a few of the old buildings were saved.
Where did you hear this?
@@ElvayProductions i google it
Half a crown. Another 2 pints! A big reason the new high rises - and many new housing estates - failed was the merest lip service given to replacing or even moving community centres like the good old pub. The edge of estate megapub was never quite the same.
I wish life was this simple today.
It is for some, for me it is at least, i live this life pretty much, go to work, go to the pub after and chat to people you know
Just goes to show that change without community is a slow death. Decline in morale and morality followes.✌️☘️
Worst days work ever done for Walkden and Little Hulton , poor folk mustve wondered what hit them, and probably still do.
why did they demolish a whole suburb
edit: oh god 7:37
Squaller
Because it was unsanitary.
I miss vox pops, journalism just isn't the same anymore....where is the HEART like in this piece? :)
Try the wandering turnip.
He's a youtuber but just did a doc on fish and chips in the UK
@@douglasnorth2429Thank you for sharing!
the reason the pubs were kept open was they had to continue trading untill the license was transferd to a new pub in one of the over-spill estates on the same day. my gran lived on ARCHIE ST & was shifted out to Gamsley. If this was,nt done the lisece was void & ended.
You’ve got to love planners (🤔)
Instead of improving what was there, they chose to evict everybody, raze the lot and build new, making sure that all community spirit was destroyed at the same time.
It’s as deliberately destructive as the highland clearances or the pogroms in 1930s Europe.
I presume the planners meant well but the outcome was cruel and brutal irrespective of their intentions.
Planners very seldom mean well. As long as they get paid, they don't really care. Most of them don't even live in the locality of their destruction, and have no local knowledge whatsoever. Where I live, a load of expensive flats were built next to a river, despite the fact that the river ran in a channel higher than the level of the first floor and garage levels. I expect you can see where this is going, can't you. A storm in the winter of 2013 meant that people woke up to find they couldn't leave their new homes, as the ground floor was under 6-7 feet of filthy water.
Exactly. Why not make improvements to the area instead of destroying the lot and displacing a whole community. It must be profit motivated to do this. It's so wrong.
@@brianartillery They should be held accountable for their dumb decisons.
Nice try.
The planners saw the numbers and that's all that matters to them, not the people.
SO sad..... our past...our history being killed....for what...????? Greedy property developers who's NEVER ever lived in a old decent community in there lives....
What has parts of London been left with...Glass office blocks... CRIMINAL!!!!!
Its a Pub, it's not that deep, calm down buttercup.
Did you know what was there before? It was essentially slums
Talk for London if you like but you know naff all about Salford
The 'genoa side' of the indigenous people of Manchester and London has been far worse than the destruction of it's architecture, the same hostile occupied gov did that to them aswell
@@nonono9194 it was slums tho, my family was from them
Great gran used to say how bad it was
They want to hang out with their old friends. That's why they come back
"Replaced by something all together more distinguished and elegant".
😅 yeah right the architects who designed the flats wouldn't have dreamed of living there themselves.
"10 final stubborn obstacles".
live on the streets then
Amazing video! Thanks for sharing this look into the past
Missed opportunity. They should have kept a part of the history
The 60s was the antithesis of conservation, preservation and heritage
1963: HOW LOCAL IS YOUR LOCAL? | Tonight | Voice of the People | BBC Archive 1353pm 6.7.24 did you watch this thinking: there's a familiar face....? one of 'em looked like a realyion from coronation street, another looked like some neighbour of my mothers...another an old relation... jeeez.... people dont wander far, do they? salford and burnley are desperatly different. i seem to be of the former mindset wihtout the attendant scally aspect...
Now in the Cotswolds it all middle class metropolitans. Bar a few of us
Tragic to watch the government destroy these historic pubs and a community like this. A sense of community for everyone is so important and I think this demonstrates how little the government care about the taxpayer, hard workers etc. Those men were all funding the developers and didn't want it. It's wrong.
Are those tower blocks still there??! Those scenes of desolation with massive empty spaces in between the isolated pubs … shocking how the housing council moved against the will of the people.
The government took these indigenous people from 99% to 50% of their cities' population, their government has been hostile and occupied for 80 years
bring back this artistry please, BBC
Community and a common culture were valued and recognised back then. They know where they feel they belong. This video is a gem. We could all learn from it. Nowadays easy to dismiss these men as close minded and lacking the ability to adapt. In reality they know where they are safer and valued, amongst their own kind from their locale, from their background and from their status.
But when other people do this it's a problem 🤔
They probably were a lot happier and lives had more meaning too! Compared to now where 'anything is possible' and we are told we can be and do anything we want if we work for it (not true)
@@Londonechoes I dunno about happier, but simpler I can imagine. They generally worried about their own lives, work and the immediate community. Now every kid has the whole word in their phone. It brings different pressures and confusion.
@@sacred1827 Very true
Have a look on a map and you can still find streets and streets of terraced house, some old, some new(ish).
Back then 40quid a week was a good wage for a family of 4 or more to live on.
The ending is like a Wes Anderson film
Real lads !! WTF happened to us
That generation were amazing. I do wonder, I really do.
Not allowed to be like that anymore not allowed to share an opinion or have a different point of view unless it fit's with the absolute extremists and crazies of today.
@@UXB-p5uI completely disagree.
There were nice elements to this old drinking culture. Connections, community, identity.
The shot with the pubs being the only thing left tells its own story.
@@UXB-p5u You've diverted this in a very predictably irrelevant direction
If you want to enjoy the atmosphere of the pubs in this film, come along to the King’s Arms, Ravenstone (children in the lounge only, please)
what a brilliant vid what a vid
Surprised by how Lancastrian their accents are, amazing how much the Mancunian accent has spread
Me too. They sound like my 73 year old dad.
The accent here is Manchester/Salford, it's not the Lancashire accent of Bolton, Rochdale, Oldham, Bury and other towns in the area. Salford borders Manchester (the dividing line is the River Irwell). Manchester and Salford have always had a completely different accent to the surrounding areas and continue to do so, I'm from Newton Heath, North East Manchester and have lived in area nearly all of my lfe, I'd say the first landlord'a accent is typical of the area.
Sad for those fellas, and true that far fewer pubs remain, but pub culture still exists. I've moved around a bit and I've always become a local in a very short time.
Mine - the only one left of three pubs local to me, is a ten minute walk away. Of the other two, one is a charity shop, and the other was demolished and the site used for houses. You would never know that a pub had ever been there.☹️☹️☹️
1963: HOW LOCAL IS YOUR LOCAL? | Tonight | Voice of the People | BBC Archive i know the feeling, though...... you get settled and yer have a local. same fces, no mither or hassles. without being condescendign the words; it's a shame spring to mind. smae thing's happenign again. as they graduallt pohase out the pub as was. no need to close half of 'em. just a-holes and their realty plots shfting folk on. on the bus i used to gawp out the widnow and think: if the guy at the swan (off rochdale road) could see his way to sticking it out (as manchester undergoes a bit of gentrification then he'd make a packet, i thought)... this was about 25 year ago, though. wonder if he did. or she did - stick it out, i mean? - might have been a landlady's concern.... good luck to 'em. as for a chap being lost without his local - very true!! very true!!!
I’m from the north but moved to SE London 40 years ago. The other day I counted up at that time there were 14 pubs in the wider area we might have gone in (though some only occasionally) and 11 have now gone for ever.
☹
Similar happened to the area in Leeds where i used to leave. Cross Green up until the late 90s had around 12 or 13 pubs, now even with a bigger population and regeneration in the area there are no pubs at all.
You have to go into leeds centre for a pint. It's really disappointing but I have moved out of inner city Leeds to garforth on the outskirts. Luckily I still have 2 local pubs within 5 minutes walking distance and 7 throughout the town.
@@kylereed9309 because people realised wasting money on what is essentially poison is dumb and stupid.
@@TheWeepingDalek and I've just realised your small, insignificant and the whole world doesn't share the same thoughts as you but thanks for the opinion anyway.
@@kylereed9309 then why are so many pubs closing. Why are the younger generations moving away from drinking
If those men could see this country today they would turn their graves. 💯
The original "Rovers Return". 🏴🇬🇧 😃😂
'Are you loooocal?'
Only to be pulled down again, waste of effort
Probably because of the shoddy work from all the drunk builders.
@@Coolcarting think it became a modern slum lack of community adhesion between the disparate groups dumped there
Although I recognise the importance of community which we have lost in modern times, we in the UK have also lost the will to make big infrastructural changes as are seen here which in the long run help improve everyone’s lives. So we lost both the cost and the benefits of what is seen here.
*The reporter is a typical Lancashire man. He can be trusted to tell it like it is.*
This is a local shop for local people … if you know, you know 😊
7.35 more distinguished and elegant he narrates. I bet Mr Pettifer never moved into a concrete high-rise flat.
You need to use a colon for a time stamp mate 7:35 Hope that helps.
its sarcasm, some people are thick as mud.
@@keef78 He was serious. I can understand how some at the time may have looked upon that plan in a positive manner, we all know with hindsight how awful they were and should never of been built.
The pub was often the last place standing in "slum" clearances. 20 or 30 years later the planner's dream would be reduced to rubble
Untold damage was done to British society when these areas were replaced with high-rise blocks.
Then immigrants arrived who still had a strong sense of community, and this gave the impression of them ‘taking over’ an area. When in reality, they had just clung onto what the types of men in this video sorely missed and longed for - a sense of belonging and togetherness
And now the immigrants are 50% of all of Manchester, what evil group would've inflicted such a fate on the indigenous people's of the city
I like these hardworking people. Such time-beaten characters, boys and girls of WW2... Yes they're very simpleminded and rude sometimes, but they are Real, unlike today's...
It's so interesting to compare people, how they look, what they like, what they dream about etc, from different countries but from the same timeline when all of them were born...
Thank You!
You say rude i say honest, you say simple minded i say traditional. these type of people built the cities and towns, they were the life blood of the country.
Why do you think they were simpleminded and rude?
everyone in this video was only 23 years of age
I am unsure how local my local is - it only takes 5 mins to walk there but somehow it takes 25 mins to walk home.
The difference is staggering!
I wasn't even born when this was filmed so I haven't got a clue as to what this is all about. Why are there only pubs left standing alone in a wasteland? Was the area being cleared and developed because of war damage? So why leave the pubs? A vid that makes me want to know more is always a good thing.
Me also but im sure its just the council being slow or landlords earning some quick cash before they pulled down.
Half a crown is 1.50 today. 75p pints. Tex x that now in london
😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮 work the curse of the drinking class😅😅😅😅
Heartbreaking. A war on our culture.
anyone spot the tiny geez at 3.55
Love how basic the pub is back then. No massive TV's belting out Sport, nothing on the walls. literally a few beer pumps and fellow pub goers for entertainment. No wonder they missed each other.
It's really sad, their history wilfully destroyed, their familiar neighbourhood gone, ive seen quite a few little docos on whole housing estates in england being levelled, really bloody sad.
I genuinely thought it was Colin Farrell in the thumbnail 😂
Does anyone know what is there now and are there any photos of the place now?
ua-cam.com/video/twnPosztKys/v-deo.htmlsi=33WpCuvhjbmH-m83
Have a Google for Salford Precinct. That's the exact area.
@@SirFlashman-zv7ueAnd what a resounding success that's been!
Pigeons 🐦 and dinghy boat men 🌚and endless grey rainy wet
days☔ 💯
I had a great local at the end of my road, the only pub in my area, the brewery shut it down to build houses/flats. It should be against the law, the manor was the hub of the community.
Nowadays those people wouldn't be able to afford to drink in pubs regularly.
Nothing has changed - we still have leaders and experts who talk a good game, yet are buffoons
In Britain we love to destroy our own culture 😢
not as much as you like destorying other's cultures
@@TheWeepingDalek zinger!
@@TheWeepingDalek do elaborate please
@@eskimo4130 there's various of cultures of old that no longer exist because of the British empire
They removed solidarity. Steadily and surely.
7:37 More distinguished and elegant?!
weird to think that old boy who owns the pub at the start was born in the 1800's
Ten oasis’s 😂
This is interesting, reading the comments those tower blocks they replaced that community with didn't even last 50 years....
Hmmmm
They are all probably dead now.😢😢😢
It was a great place for hanky panky
Boulder City IRL.
Some people just want to make other people feel misarable. Vampires...
Why don’t they all agree to meet at another pub after that one is pulled down?
Does anybody recognize the song at 7:04?
"there's no place like home"?
My local is now a block of flats housing Somalians. Thanks for your part in that bbc
The main thing is to reject racialism.
Nowadays everyone would keep in touch via group chats and other means, because going out wasn't 95% of your social interaction. Seems back then to move a community 10 miles was like taking a kid out of school.
Hanky Panky?
I live here now. I doubt I'd fancy it the way it was but to clear it like that was traumatising for the people. Those in ivory towers really didnt care about shitting on these folk.
Very, very sad.
Money not for the people living there is the only reason
How local are your locals?
None of those people would recognise Salford now. The planners have ruined it.
I wonder how the world would have been if alcoholic beverages didn’t exist
08;53 before the house falls theres a fique that leaves the building. looks like a spirit shadow
More pubs than Ur average Irish City back in the day
People coming from all over to drink at the old pubs. I can only assume that there was a lot of drink driving going on back then.
LOVELY PEOPLE< JUST LIKE THE OLD DAYS< WATCHING FROM CALIFORNIA< BLESSINGS LIVERPOOL BANK ROBBER TO Hollywood Butler AMEN
Hanky panky 😆😁😄😀😅😂🤣😭
Proof boozers booze for the social aspect.
What happened to those people..How many of them are alive who knows.Maybe none of them is still alive..
Ah the human condition. Has no known cure.
1963: HOW LOCAL IS YOUR LOCAL? | Tonight | Voice of the People | BBC Archive 1338pm 6.7.24 love on the dole? there's no love on it. i should know. d'you think i could try love on the sick? they're on a good screw, the sick and defunkt. when i saw the solitary pubs i was thinking: 'kin hell.............. how so? . i was looking at the new, revivified salford and, as i say, when they change the landscapes peoples' memories are scuppered - especially the elderly's etc etc.... crazy revamp of city scapes is not to be sniffed at or takenon lightly. and again, when all these flat pack kultur flats sprang up i said give it 15 years and they'll all be filthy and in need of rendrign. whcih they are... they might revert to bricklaying and actual bricks as a material to utilize (in 20 years ro so) .... briclaying seems to be slowly on the wane in favour of cladding - refer to the area round strangeways... it's all faux red brick cladding. looks crap. father wil be turning in his cement mixer...
And most of those 60s blocks have been demolished…what a waste of a once tight knit community
Same attack going on back then is still going on now it as never stopped all one big all out attack on our identity culture history freedom.💯
Everybody looked so old in those days.
'So old ' you mean not looking chavvy and having pink and blue hair which seems to be the fashion in this 'enlightened' age? 🙄
@@UXB-p5u No, I mean 28 year olds who look 45. The same phenomenon can be observed when looking at English footballers from the 1930s and 1940s
@@beckyzwhite You can see the same phenomenon now as millennials get older but still wear clothes and hairstyles that went out of fashion in the 2010s and 00s. Same as gen-X actually who still dress and wear 90s and 00s fashion. The 30 year old people in this video dress and talk and carry themselves like what we would associate with old people in their 70s and 80s now, unsurprisingly, because this generation are now in their 70s and 80s. It's not helped by the awful diet, poor healthcare and hard manual work that cause physical aging. This crowd in the pub looks physically much fitter and well-postured than today's male population though in spite of all that
Eyyy ooop just saw r'kelly up t'road...
Did he believe that he could fly??
All these old pubs were once new. Time changes everything, such is life.
3:40 ish - sounds like he's talking about children not grown men.
Hahaha
Sounds like Matt Berry 😅