When I hear someone talking about a 25 hp tractor, I think of an oversized lawnmower...until I see the Kioti CK2610 with the KL4030 loader. That thing is a beast of a tractor...weighs 3600# with the front end loader on, has a 100 CI motor, pumps 11.7 gpm hydraulics, and can lift 1830# with the front end loader...and uses 5' attachments with no problems...and no DPF.
Good advice, Mike. Years ago, I wanted to upgrade my 40 hp International. When I was shopping, I found a great deal on a New Holland 70 HP. I remember asking the dealer, "Do you reckon 70 HP is too much hp for me to jump to??" He looked at me and said there is no such thing as "too much HP." Ha.
Hi Mike, while I'm sure you know it, I didn't hear you distinguish between tractor horsepower and PTO horsepower (I could have missed it). Some folks new to equipment might not consider that? Sure appreciate your channel and your videos. Best regards, Doug
So many variables but 40ish horsepower to run 5' implements in a 4x4 tractor with FEL and hydrostatic drive for up to about 20 acres will solve 90% of people's requirements. That's my advice! Would need more information from the user to narrow it down anymore. Never heard anyone say "I wish I had a smaller tractor"! 😀
All good info, but why specifically hydrostatic, other than ease of use? Does it add to the tractor's capability of getting things done? I'm split between hydro and shuttle shift.
When I asked my grandfather who was a depression era farmer how big of a tractor to get, he told me the following "Get the biggest tractor you can afford, it will still be too small for everything you want to do with it over time. Over time, however, it will be bigger than what you were inclined to get when shopping." I ended up buying a 35 horsepower New Holland in 2000. He was absolutely correct about both points. Over the years I could have used a 50 or 60 horsepower tractor. But if I had been shopping strictly based on price, I probably would have bought a 20 or 25 horsepower tractor with smaller frame. I bought the biggest I could afford at the time and it's generally served me well.
My thoughts are find the frame size tractor that fits your needs and buy as much HP in that frame size that your wallet can afford. I’ve got 10 acres and mow all of it. I started with a kubota L3540 and sold it to purchase a L6060. I wanted the most power in a compact size with a hydrostatic transmission. A M series was just too big and heavy for my needs. I use my loader as a forklift a lot to pick up expensive equipment and the precision of a hydra static transmission can’t be beat.
You are correct and for that matter why is he promoting all the foreign built modern junk? You can get three times the quality in a good used one and for a tenth the price. He's a troll and salesman, nothing else especially actual on farm experience. What a dumb ass he is.
I guess all us Tractor newbys go thru this. I figured that I was gonna guess wrong anyway because that’s what I seem to do, so I decided, too much was better then too little.I went in to look at BX’s and drove off with a L 4701, 5 yrs in? I don’t regret that decision. I maybe rabbit hunting with a howitzer , but I’m not complaining, Mike’s right! Go as big as you can afford! That’s good advice in my experience.
I have 41 acres and have thoroughly enjoyed first tractor at 40HP a Bobcat CT2540. Bigger would be more fun to brag about but it really is a great size. 35ish rated PTO.
I decided based on what implements I wanted to use. Most required a minimum of 35, but recommended 40-50 HP. Anything under 35 really limited your options when it comes to flail mowers, snow blowers, box blades, etc. Also, the price difference between a 50 and 35HP tractor really that much when you space it out over 7 years and it will likely have higher resale value, both $$ and %-wise down the road.
Mike. Good advice, I think you might have mentioned driveway/road maintenance as a major task. When pulling my 6 ft box blade with the cutters down it is big load. But with a mile long drive to maintain my 60 Hp tractor has enough grunt to get the job done and pull a 8 ft rear blade to groom it back into shape.
Good information. One thing I would add is not all land is the same. You mentioned hills a bit, but heavily wooded is very different from open pasture. My property is heavily wooded, so the ability to turn around on a trail has to be considered also. I have a 38 horse tractor that hits the sweet spot for me. There are times when I’d like a bigger one to lift more with the front end loader, but there are times I’d like something a little smaller to be able to turn around in the woods.
I own a Kubota B6200. Do I wish I could lift more with the loader? Of course. But where I live, there's big boulders EVERYWHERE, and around 75% of my 10 acres is densely wooded. It is so rough that it would be very difficult to brush hog. So the short, narrow tractor is better for me as I can maneuver around obstacles, and it's still got enough power and weight to cut my grass, plow and grade my driveway, and winch out trees.
If someone is is purchasing for lift capacity, I don't know why they'd look any further than Kubota's construction tlb series (b26, L47, M62.) The lift is almost double other models with similar horsepower and you can easily remove the backhoe to put on other attachments.
I had a Ford 4000 at 50 hp was ok now have Ford 6610 with 80 hp and just bent my Woods scraper blade not paying attention. But nice having that kind of power.
To me the biggest factor was the tier 4 emissions. I went with the largest frame size tractor with the most lift that I could find that still has a 25 HP pre emissions engine. My use case is all short runs and frequent engine starts. I do no long hard runs to help a DPF stay clean. with my use case I needed to stay under the tier 4 emissions requirement. Is it under powered, YES!, but I can manage by doing things just a bit slower. For someone who starts their tractor and works if hard all day a DPF will likely last a long time. If you need a 40 HP tractor, then you have no choice, but I'd think long and hard about making that jump from 25 HP to 32 HP.
Hey Mike, I have been farming for 30 plus years, the one thing I always had a question about is why don't they ever list engine torque in the rating, They always per the nebraska rating list PTO and drawbar horse power but never the torque out put
As another reply says, you need to look at the differences between engine, pto and drawbar horsepower. For example: my Allis Chalmers D17 is rated at 63 engine horsepower, 53 +/- pto and 48 +/- on the drawbar in the Nebraska tests.
You made a very good point I've tried to explain to people for years. Tractor length and weight means alot as much if not more than horsepower. When I was looking at tractors I really had my heart set on a Kobota 6070 but when comparing my top 3 thought not near as refined I settled on a 5570 Mahindra. Between over a 1000# difference in weight and a little over a foot in length I couldn't offset that for the more luxury on the Kubota. Between my 7' cutter and my 80" grapple the built in length and weight means alot. I'm glad I made the decision it handles both well. With tires loaded and turned out it is very secure and sure footed . Alot of the dealers tried saying to add weight but then that's something that has to be removed for repairs and I'd rather have the weight built in. Here in WV we have some extremely steep ground and clearing brush on slopes is dangerous enough without not having equipment more equipped for it.
There are a lot of variables, such as speed of travel,engine rpm,grass height, type of grass, thickness of grass, cutting in morning or afternoon. So I really don't see putting a size of mower to hp.
I'd just add, to think about future plans/possibilities. As an example i bought my first tractor (60 hp open station 4wd) thinking I would always buy hay and would never need a tractor powerfull enough to operate a round baler. Well low and behold the oportunity to cut and bale hay for myself came to fruition and now instead of buying hay I could get hay for the cost of my baling it. So now I needed a bigger tractor and had to start over, thankfully on the second time I got all the tractor I'll ever need 100hp cab 4x4. i highly recommend the cab option.
Mike, I knew nothing about tractors when I bought my 42 acres 14 years sgo. After talking to a few dealers I went into my local Kubota dealer. He sugested a MX5100 and have been really happy with it. Only a few times I wish I had more HP.
Just ordered a 2038R last week (expected delivery date April 22!). While I am getting a rotary cutter, my most demanding task is going to be box blading/maintaining a pretty steep half-mile driveway. I'm hoping the 38 hp will do it for me!
Also in regards to different HP in in the same frame size tractors. More HP doesn't mean as much if you don't have the weight to put the power to the ground.
Mike the timing of this video couldn't have been any better. I was explaining a lot of the concepts in this video to a member over at TBN and then I saw this in my news feed. It was satisfying to watch this as it showed and confirmed to me how far I have personally come in my knowledge and growth of understanding about tractors but it also explains in a very easy to understand way how this industry works from a marketing and sales standpoint. This will go down as one of my all time favorite videos from you. Keep up the good work and thank you for being such a valuable resource of information and help to this community.
Hype: exotic loader quick-detach setup. I stressed on this forever before buying and gave a lot of shopping value to Kubota with their swift-tach loader system. Now that I have owned a tractor with a loader for a couple years wouldn't you know it, I have yet to remove the loader from the machine.. not once! Not hype: SSQA bucket system. Swapping between forks and a bucket is the cats pajamas.
@@TractorMike Hi Mike, good advice as always. I'm thinking you did a video quite awhile ago about how much of a pain it is taking a loader off and on. After a few times doing it you get the hang of it. Key is doing it on level ground. I personally hate mowing with a loader on. I always seem to whack a tree because I'm watching the mower going around another tree LOL.
Mike, I have been around tractors all my life.... 3/4 of a century. My question is. One, why does a tractor cost so much? And next; and probably my most anxious question, why is it if you are paying tens of thousands and even hundred of thousand of dollars for a tractor..... Why, Why, Why... can they not make a tractor that is used daily and not babied with a SEAT that doesn't blow out in just a few years?
Great video, Mike! Would have appreciated it a few months ago before I made my first purchase but hope it helps someone else with the same question. We landed on a 40 hp LS for our woodland homestead. Been doing great for skidding logs and chipping everything I can, at 22 hours in 2 months. Don't worry, it gets lots of grease!
Mike, what do you think about running a tractor at full capacity everyday. For example if I'll be moving 1200lb hay bales all day contiuously for months on end. Should I get a tractor that can barely handle it or is it better to get a tractor that can easily and comfortably handle it? It feels like running a tractor at its limit all of the time will just overwork the machinery to an early death. Love to hear what you think. Cheers!
I'd rather have a larger tractor, that isn't going to struggle at the job that you are going to be using the tractor for the most...or do what the farmers here in Idaho do....Buy a tractor for every task imaginable LOL. I mean if you got the money to spend, you can always buy a new tractor for a task you are going to be doing all the time, and buy a used tractor for those jobs that you only do occasionally.
I have a 25 hp on a larger than normal frame for the engine size. Minimum engine for the frame by the maker. They put up to 45 hp on this frame. Does fine with the 63 inch bucket and 5 ft shredder, though heavy , tall stuff slows the cutter if I don't go slower mowing it down. It has the weight to deal with the shredder with the loader off. (rides better when shredding without the loader) 2 to 3 min to connect or disconnect the loader, being my slow, methodical self. Here's the thing.. You can't 100% go by HP. There's a frame size to consider. Low HP on a big frame means some things go slower, but it works.
Mike for Pres in 2024!!!!!!. Just to give everyone an idea. I ordered a MX5 bushhog in Oct and the salesman told me it was going to be Jan before it came in. I went today and picked it up and my salesman said that same MX5 is now $700 more. He honored our agreement on the cost from Oct. He also mention that cost of tractors are up 30%. My 43hp is a good all around tractor for small farm and gardening.
Consider all implement requirements you may use. I plan to buy a stump grinder and wanted a little extra rear pto power, it needs minimum 15HP and I got 19HP. I also asked my dealer about mower decks and he recommended against it for our area due to the amount of rain and soggy ground. He said he'd still sell me whatever I wanted to buy just didn't recommend it.
That's interesting? I guess they figure a 70HP or larger tractor will be for farming rather than utility type work maybe is what makes the larger tractors tax exempt?
I knew I wanted a Kubota, I knew I didn’t want the BX series. They are not the “size” im looking for…..plus they sound different than a B series. So I knew I was looking at a B2301/B2601….. small price difference for a few more hp so I went with a B2601…. Now a year later I wish I would’ve bought a LX2610. Slightly bigger in mass…. But I don’t disagree with my original purchase. Im content with the B2601. Dealer didn’t push me into it. I could do everything that I do with a BX…. But they’re small and not much cheaper when you compare a premium BX vs a B….. HOWEVER my dealer did HEAVILY SUGGEST I buy a loader. I was looking at the overall price and I thought I’d ‘just add it ‘ down the road. Yeah, until he explained to me the COST OF INSTALL after I take delivery. When I say the BX is small, calm down all you BX lovers…. My last tractor was a simplicity Powermax 9020….. so yeah, I wanted a LARGER tractor.
My first tractor 🚜 was a Ford 2N when I bought a 30 horsepower, I realized how much more I could do with it so I bought a 45 horsepower, everything got easier and faster. Now I looking at a heavy small frame 75 horsepower. The moral of my story is always get more horsepower than you think you need, you will thank yourself.
WIsh I had seen this about 15 years ago. On 3rd tractor and this one is like Goldilocks and the 3 bears. First tractor was too old, heavy and uncomfortable, second one was too light and low on HP, third one is just right.
I used to have a 25 hp john deere with no front end loader and could carry round hay bales usually 5x5 but picked up from the rear and had to back up steep hills. After 25 years I went to a 35 hp with front end loader but still too small.
Mike, I thought lift capacity was also determined by the length of the loader arms? The longer the loader arms, less left. Noticed some of the newer tractors have shorter arms keeping the weight closer to the tractor body. I could not believe some of lift capacity.
I almost say, get 10-15 HP more than you think you need. You think you need a 30 HP, get a 45 HP, need a 45HP get a 55 or 60 HP. And if you dont think you need a front end loader you're wrong and just don't know it. Get a front end loader. You wont regret it. Same thing in IT, building out a server or storage array, always get the biggest size drive you can afford, Skimp on memory if it means you can get more drive space. Memory is easy to upgrade later, expanding the drive space is much more involved and harder to do. You wont regret going more HP, but you will regret getting less.
Boy, I wish I would of gone for one bigger than 33 HP! I had my wife finally convinced to let me bite the bullet & I could of easily gone for one bigger & had her approve but 33 HP does okay but has limits!
Your comment about the injector screw is very interesting, I've heard that can be done but waiting till the warranty runs out. My question to you is how much can you safely turn it up and how would you know when you cross that line?
Mike, great info and advice. But as you often seem to do, you fail to address physical size of the tractor compared to the jobs/task that need to be done. Perhaps you have a feed hut to put round bales in which could affect tractor width, or you work in trees and need to stay with a smaller frame tractor, or going the other direction and need to stack bales which requires lift capacity at higher level heights and possibly a larger frame tractor for greater height. Also as others mentioned, PTO HP may be more important that engine PTO and the loss of HP with different transmission types. I know that the list is long, but new to tractor folks need to consider all of these points and more as they look for that 1st tractor, even more so as product availability is as it is currently and has been for a while. While personally I am not a fan of HST, there are times they are useful over shuttle and gear only transmissions. It would be good to refer to other videos on these topics and even arrange a grouping for new tractor owners/buyers of lots of topic areas.
Another rule of thumb for a rotary cutter is too have 5hp on the PTO per each foot of cutter. So a 5 foot cutter needs at least 25 hp on the PTO, 6 foot needs 30 hp, etc.
Also depends on intended use. I have a 5 foot on my 30PTO HP New Holland and it has served me well for 10+ years. Have a 6 foot on order and it will only be used to cut pastures, not clear land. Saving the 5 footer for clearing duty an 6 foot to cut more quickly. My old 23 PTO HP tractor had plenty of power for the 5 foot but not enough weight on front end. Your numbers are good to know
Horsepower is exaggerated. Companies claim less than 25 horsepower is useless but there are millions of tractors with fewer than twenty horsepower that will out work all new tractor the same size. Case 112 steam engine was 2 horsepower and pulls railcars and train engines ...
Hey buddy how do I know what Size engine I have on my tractor it's a Ford. Thank you it's an 8 in but not sure. 3 digit code is 851 18" rear and has the eggshell grill
Can you explain the difference(s) between the various series of tractors at the same horsepower sometime? For example when I was shopping for my first tractor about 4 years ago, I could get a 40 hp tractor in say, a 1600 series, a 2600 series, and a 3600 series. It was very hard for me to distinguish which one I should buy and why, especially when it came to cost. Thanks Mike for all the videos. 😁👨🚒
Most companies have an economy series and a deluxe series. The 1600 and 3600 are considered the deluxe series and the 2600 is more economy and they're made in different parts of the world. 1600 and 3600 are Japanese built, 2600 comes from Korea. There should be a substantial price difference in the three.
Always appreciate your insight Mike. I've owned only 2 tractors so my experience is limited. But the most helpful point you made for me was to determine the tasks to be performed. I added the caviates of immediate tasks, future tasks, and long term tasks. My first tractor was a used 24hp that I knew was undersized for my long term and future tasks. But it was too good of a deal to pass up, was a great "trainer" tractor, and good enough for my immediate tasks. When shopping for my new tractor a few years back, I focused on frame size first, which addressed lift capacities, then hp within that frame size. The frame size I selected has the lift capacity to handle my long term and future tasks, with ballisting and footprint size needed for stability on my terrain, while still having the manueverability I need in wooded areas. The HPs in that frame size and manufacturer range from 30 to 55 hp, the only difference being turbo size and tuning. So I selected the hp with just enough pto hp to drive the impliments I wanted to buy, while forcing the engine to work hard enough to extend the time between DPF cycles. For my application, I hit the sweet spot with 45 horses. Your input helped guide many of my conversations and decisions while shopping. So thanks for your help in my successful outcome.
Hi Mike, I was wondering if you can help me out. I'm torn between the massey ferguson 2606H 65hp and 2607H 74hp. I own 20acres and plan on doing brush cutting up to 3inchs with some hills and eventually getting some cows for raising beef for my family. Is it worth spending the extra few thousand and going with the 74hp? I also plan on doing some brush cutting on the side. Thanks
Great explanations. I think getting the biggest you can afford is good advice to a point. I have a 50+hp which is good for what I need but, I also need to be able to cut and maintain my wooded areas as well and something in the mid 30's to mid 40's hp range on a smaller frame would work better for that. I agree that the main deciding factor should be what implements you plan on using and what hp they recommend or require.
Yes, but that ratio varies on a tractor by tractor basis. That is, if one 25hp tractor has 12 PTO hp, a 25hp tractor from another manufacturer may have a different PTO hp. PTO hp is generally a function of how much of the tractor's hydraulic power is consumed by power steering, other hydraulics, (and how that split is made), and by the transmission. Drawbar hp is a function of the efficiency of the transmission. A hydrostatic transmission consumes some of the engine's horsepower. A manual transmission, generally, consumes less. So, there are design choices that will affect how much of a tractor's engine hp is available at the PTO or the drawbar.
Not really. Engine horsepower will always be bigger, the parasitic loss for powering the hydraulics, steering, hydro (if equipped), or power shifts/power shuttles reduces the horsepower to the PTO. It will vary, depending on how much power those items consume. I'm not all that familiar with how drawbar horsepower is measured, and since we don't do much tillage work where I live, it's not a number I pay much attention to. Here's where it gets measured: tractortestlab.unl.edu/.
Is there any pros or cons to all being equal on a make and model where the HP is the same but one is a 3 cylinder vs a 4 cylinder with the same horse power? Advantage in longevity with 4 vs 3 perhaps?
Diesel engines have four cycles, intake, compression, ignition and exhaust. So, with a four cylinder engine, each cylinder is on one of those cycles which gives a natural balance to things. Three cylinder engines don't have that. My money would be on the four cylinder lasting longer and running quieter.
One of my buddies that has several tractors convinced me a Kubota 3301 would have more hp than I would ever need. He was wrong. He was as full of bs for that as he is everything else. It will be paid off in three more payments. Want to trade for something bigger.
Oh dear....If i would've got my tractor based on this, I think, I would be screwed bad now. Those thumb-rules are mostly misleading. You didn't miss everything but a few things got messed up.
GREAT ADVICE! This information is great and will be very helpful to all those Weekend Farmers that are looking for their first tractor. We need more owners with vast amount of knowledge, like yourself, that can help point newbies in the right direction when the dealers just want to make a sell. Keep up the great videos and awesome advice!
Simple: A much as you can afford while still affording the implements you need, and will still fit in your shed. Unfortunately for me, that meant 25HP :(
If you have a tractor with more HP than you ever use, and it’s Tier 4, it’ll soot up more than using a tractor with a HP rating appropriate for the tasks you do…..so recommending the biggest HP unit to me isn’t necessarily great advice.
When I hear someone talking about a 25 hp tractor, I think of an oversized lawnmower...until I see the Kioti CK2610 with the KL4030 loader. That thing is a beast of a tractor...weighs 3600# with the front end loader on, has a 100 CI motor, pumps 11.7 gpm hydraulics, and can lift 1830# with the front end loader...and uses 5' attachments with no problems...and no DPF.
one of the best if not the best tractor channels on youtube
Wow, thanks!
I agree 100%
I believe you've said it before, "I wish I hadn't bought such a big tractor," said no one ever.
Good advice, Mike. Years ago, I wanted to upgrade my 40 hp International. When I was shopping, I found a great deal on a New Holland 70 HP. I remember asking the dealer, "Do you reckon 70 HP is too much hp for me to jump to??" He looked at me and said there is no such thing as "too much HP." Ha.
Hi Mike, while I'm sure you know it, I didn't hear you distinguish between tractor horsepower and PTO horsepower (I could have missed it). Some folks new to equipment might not consider that? Sure appreciate your channel and your videos. Best regards, Doug
So many variables but 40ish horsepower to run 5' implements in a 4x4 tractor with FEL and hydrostatic drive for up to about 20 acres will solve 90% of people's requirements. That's my advice! Would need more information from the user to narrow it down anymore. Never heard anyone say "I wish I had a smaller tractor"! 😀
All good info, but why specifically hydrostatic, other than ease of use? Does it add to the tractor's capability of getting things done? I'm split between hydro and shuttle shift.
When I asked my grandfather who was a depression era farmer how big of a tractor to get, he told me the following "Get the biggest tractor you can afford, it will still be too small for everything you want to do with it over time. Over time, however, it will be bigger than what you were inclined to get when shopping." I ended up buying a 35 horsepower New Holland in 2000. He was absolutely correct about both points. Over the years I could have used a 50 or 60 horsepower tractor. But if I had been shopping strictly based on price, I probably would have bought a 20 or 25 horsepower tractor with smaller frame. I bought the biggest I could afford at the time and it's generally served me well.
My thoughts are find the frame size tractor that fits your needs and buy as much HP in that frame size that your wallet can afford. I’ve got 10 acres and mow all of it. I started with a kubota L3540 and sold it to purchase a L6060. I wanted the most power in a compact size with a hydrostatic transmission. A M series was just too big and heavy for my needs. I use my loader as a forklift a lot to pick up expensive equipment and the precision of a hydra static transmission can’t be beat.
You are correct and for that matter why is he promoting all the foreign built modern junk? You can get three times the quality in a good used one and for a tenth the price. He's a troll and salesman, nothing else especially actual on farm experience. What a dumb ass he is.
I guess all us Tractor newbys go thru this. I figured that I was gonna guess wrong anyway because that’s what I seem to do, so I decided, too much was better then too little.I went in to look at BX’s and drove off with a L 4701, 5 yrs in? I don’t regret that decision. I maybe rabbit hunting with a howitzer , but I’m not complaining, Mike’s right! Go as big as you can afford! That’s good advice in my experience.
Bought an LS MT573 73hp for my 80 acres. Love it
I have 41 acres and have thoroughly enjoyed first tractor at 40HP a Bobcat CT2540. Bigger would be more fun to brag about but it really is a great size. 35ish rated PTO.
100 hp or bust. Nice round number
I decided based on what implements I wanted to use. Most required a minimum of 35, but recommended 40-50 HP. Anything under 35 really limited your options when it comes to flail mowers, snow blowers, box blades, etc. Also, the price difference between a 50 and 35HP tractor really that much when you space it out over 7 years and it will likely have higher resale value, both $$ and %-wise down the road.
Mike. Good advice, I think you might have mentioned driveway/road maintenance as a major task. When pulling my 6 ft box blade with the cutters down it is big load. But with a mile long drive to maintain my 60 Hp tractor has enough grunt to get the job done and pull a 8 ft rear blade to groom it back into shape.
Good information. One thing I would add is not all land is the same. You mentioned hills a bit, but heavily wooded is very different from open pasture. My property is heavily wooded, so the ability to turn around on a trail has to be considered also. I have a 38 horse tractor that hits the sweet spot for me. There are times when I’d like a bigger one to lift more with the front end loader, but there are times I’d like something a little smaller to be able to turn around in the woods.
I own a Kubota B6200. Do I wish I could lift more with the loader? Of course. But where I live, there's big boulders EVERYWHERE, and around 75% of my 10 acres is densely wooded. It is so rough that it would be very difficult to brush hog. So the short, narrow tractor is better for me as I can maneuver around obstacles, and it's still got enough power and weight to cut my grass, plow and grade my driveway, and winch out trees.
I went looking for a 25 hp Kubota and after all the research ended up with a CK4020 👍🏻
If someone is is purchasing for lift capacity, I don't know why they'd look any further than Kubota's construction tlb series (b26, L47, M62.) The lift is almost double other models with similar horsepower and you can easily remove the backhoe to put on other attachments.
I had a Ford 4000 at 50 hp was ok now have Ford 6610 with 80 hp and just bent my Woods scraper blade not paying attention. But nice having that kind of power.
Bought a used JD 63 horse and a 6’ cutter. Works great. After bouncing around for 6 hours cutting a field , I wish I had a 10’ cutter.
To me the biggest factor was the tier 4 emissions. I went with the largest frame size tractor with the most lift that I could find that still has a 25 HP pre emissions engine. My use case is all short runs and frequent engine starts. I do no long hard runs to help a DPF stay clean. with my use case I needed to stay under the tier 4 emissions requirement. Is it under powered, YES!, but I can manage by doing things just a bit slower. For someone who starts their tractor and works if hard all day a DPF will likely last a long time. If you need a 40 HP tractor, then you have no choice, but I'd think long and hard about making that jump from 25 HP to 32 HP.
Hey Mike, I have been farming for 30 plus years, the one thing I always had a question about is why don't they ever list engine torque in the rating, They always per the nebraska rating list PTO and drawbar horse power but never the torque out put
As another reply says, you need to look at the differences between engine, pto and drawbar horsepower. For example: my Allis Chalmers D17 is rated at 63 engine horsepower, 53 +/- pto and 48 +/- on the drawbar in the Nebraska tests.
You made a very good point I've tried to explain to people for years. Tractor length and weight means alot as much if not more than horsepower. When I was looking at tractors I really had my heart set on a Kobota 6070 but when comparing my top 3 thought not near as refined I settled on a 5570 Mahindra. Between over a 1000# difference in weight and a little over a foot in length I couldn't offset that for the more luxury on the Kubota. Between my 7' cutter and my 80" grapple the built in length and weight means alot. I'm glad I made the decision it handles both well. With tires loaded and turned out it is very secure and sure footed . Alot of the dealers tried saying to add weight but then that's something that has to be removed for repairs and I'd rather have the weight built in. Here in WV we have some extremely steep ground and clearing brush on slopes is dangerous enough without not having equipment more equipped for it.
Really helpful, easy outline as a great start point; thank you.
This was such a helpful video. You really explained everything so clearly
Great video Mike! Always very useful information.
There are a lot of variables, such as speed of travel,engine rpm,grass height, type of grass, thickness of grass, cutting in morning or afternoon. So I really don't see putting a size of mower to hp.
I'd just add, to think about future plans/possibilities. As an example i bought my first tractor (60 hp open station 4wd) thinking I would always buy hay and would never need a tractor powerfull enough to operate a round baler. Well low and behold the oportunity to cut and bale hay for myself came to fruition and now instead of buying hay I could get hay for the cost of my baling it. So now I needed a bigger tractor and had to start over, thankfully on the second time I got all the tractor I'll ever need 100hp cab 4x4. i highly recommend the cab option.
Hi Mike with the rising cost off fuel now you don't want too much hp just enough to do your work
Mike, I knew nothing about tractors when I bought my 42 acres 14 years sgo. After talking to a few dealers I went into my local Kubota dealer. He sugested a MX5100 and have been really happy with it. Only a few times I wish I had more HP.
Dad told me 40 years ago, you can do a small job with a big tractor but you can't do a big job with a small tractor.
Just ordered a 2038R last week (expected delivery date April 22!). While I am getting a rotary cutter, my most demanding task is going to be box blading/maintaining a pretty steep half-mile driveway. I'm hoping the 38 hp will do it for me!
The most demanding task was the key takeaway for me in this video.
Just picked up a Woods BB84.40 for behind my L3600 GST, can’t wait to see how they work together in the spring.
Also in regards to different HP in in the same frame size tractors. More HP doesn't mean as much if you don't have the weight to put the power to the ground.
Mike the timing of this video couldn't have been any better. I was explaining a lot of the concepts in this video to a member over at TBN and then I saw this in my news feed. It was satisfying to watch this as it showed and confirmed to me how far I have personally come in my knowledge and growth of understanding about tractors but it also explains in a very easy to understand way how this industry works from a marketing and sales standpoint. This will go down as one of my all time favorite videos from you. Keep up the good work and thank you for being such a valuable resource of information and help to this community.
Hype: exotic loader quick-detach setup. I stressed on this forever before buying and gave a lot of shopping value to Kubota with their swift-tach loader system. Now that I have owned a tractor with a loader for a couple years wouldn't you know it, I have yet to remove the loader from the machine.. not once!
Not hype: SSQA bucket system. Swapping between forks and a bucket is the cats pajamas.
I agree! I've never had the loader off my tractor but I change attachments almost daily.
@@TractorMike Hi Mike, good advice as always. I'm thinking you did a video quite awhile ago about how much of a pain it is taking a loader off and on. After a few times doing it you get the hang of it. Key is doing it on level ground. I personally hate mowing with a loader on. I always seem to whack a tree because I'm watching the mower going around another tree LOL.
Mike, I have been around tractors all my life.... 3/4 of a century. My question is. One, why does a tractor cost so much? And next; and probably my most anxious question, why is it if you are paying tens of thousands and even hundred of thousand of dollars for a tractor..... Why, Why, Why... can they not make a tractor that is used daily and not babied with a SEAT that doesn't blow out in just a few years?
Excellent job, Mike. Really great advice.
My Cluttered Garage Hi Ed! 😁👨🚒
Great video, Mike! Would have appreciated it a few months ago before I made my first purchase but hope it helps someone else with the same question. We landed on a 40 hp LS for our woodland homestead. Been doing great for skidding logs and chipping everything I can, at 22 hours in 2 months. Don't worry, it gets lots of grease!
Mike, what do you think about running a tractor at full capacity everyday. For example if I'll be moving 1200lb hay bales all day contiuously for months on end. Should I get a tractor that can barely handle it or is it better to get a tractor that can easily and comfortably handle it? It feels like running a tractor at its limit all of the time will just overwork the machinery to an early death. Love to hear what you think. Cheers!
Personally, I'd want a little cushion and a larger-framed tractor.
I'd rather have a larger tractor, that isn't going to struggle at the job that you are going to be using the tractor for the most...or do what the farmers here in Idaho do....Buy a tractor for every task imaginable LOL. I mean if you got the money to spend, you can always buy a new tractor for a task you are going to be doing all the time, and buy a used tractor for those jobs that you only do occasionally.
Hi Mike, one mistake I think people make on size of cutters to acres is they throw out the total acres as opposed to the mowing acres size......
Great point! I own 20 acres, but the yard/bran/house takes up a bunch and part of it is woods.
I have a 25 hp on a larger than normal frame for the engine size. Minimum engine for the frame by the maker. They put up to 45 hp on this frame.
Does fine with the 63 inch bucket and 5 ft shredder, though heavy , tall stuff slows the cutter if I don't go slower mowing it down.
It has the weight to deal with the shredder with the loader off. (rides better when shredding without the loader)
2 to 3 min to connect or disconnect the loader, being my slow, methodical self.
Here's the thing.. You can't 100% go by HP. There's a frame size to consider.
Low HP on a big frame means some things go slower, but it works.
25 hp engine, up to appx 20 at PTO
(varies by make/model on this ratio)
Mike for Pres in 2024!!!!!!. Just to give everyone an idea. I ordered a MX5 bushhog in Oct and the salesman told me it was going to be Jan before it came in. I went today and picked it up and my salesman said that same MX5 is now $700 more. He honored our agreement on the cost from Oct. He also mention that cost of tractors are up 30%. My 43hp is a good all around tractor for small farm and gardening.
Thanks for the endorsement but I wouldn't last five minutes in politics.
Consider all implement requirements you may use. I plan to buy a stump grinder and wanted a little extra rear pto power, it needs minimum 15HP and I got 19HP. I also asked my dealer about mower decks and he recommended against it for our area due to the amount of rain and soggy ground. He said he'd still sell me whatever I wanted to buy just didn't recommend it.
Thank you Sir!
Great info Mike!
Mike do a episode on pto generator & tie in if you would want one & why cause of power outage to run your home or your business
Pay no taxes on 70 HP and above in Ontario, so if you're looking at 55-60 HP, you'll pay the same for 70 HP.
That's interesting? I guess they figure a 70HP or larger tractor will be for farming rather than utility type work maybe is what makes the larger tractors tax exempt?
I knew I wanted a Kubota, I knew I didn’t want the BX series. They are not the “size” im looking for…..plus they sound different than a B series. So I knew I was looking at a B2301/B2601….. small price difference for a few more hp so I went with a B2601…. Now a year later I wish I would’ve bought a LX2610. Slightly bigger in mass…. But I don’t disagree with my original purchase. Im content with the B2601. Dealer didn’t push me into it. I could do everything that I do with a BX…. But they’re small and not much cheaper when you compare a premium BX vs a B….. HOWEVER my dealer did HEAVILY SUGGEST I buy a loader. I was looking at the overall price and I thought I’d ‘just add it ‘ down the road. Yeah, until he explained to me the COST OF INSTALL after I take delivery. When I say the BX is small, calm down all you BX lovers…. My last tractor was a simplicity Powermax 9020….. so yeah, I wanted a LARGER tractor.
My first tractor 🚜 was a Ford 2N when I bought a 30 horsepower, I realized how much more I could do with it so I bought a 45 horsepower, everything got easier and faster. Now I looking at a heavy small frame 75 horsepower. The moral of my story is always get more horsepower than you think you need, you will thank yourself.
Appreciate your videos. Bought the biggest I could and almost went too big.
Nice info thanks for sharing
Looking at the ck3510 kioti. Strong lift capacity and a decent price Round bails and maybe a post driver will be my main uses. Thoughts….
WIsh I had seen this about 15 years ago. On 3rd tractor and this one is like Goldilocks and the 3 bears. First tractor was too old, heavy and uncomfortable, second one was too light and low on HP, third one is just right.
😂
I used to have a 25 hp john deere with no front end loader and could carry round hay bales usually 5x5 but picked up from the rear and had to back up steep hills. After 25 years I went to a 35 hp with front end loader but still too small.
Mike, I thought lift capacity was also determined by the length of the loader arms? The longer the loader arms, less left. Noticed some of the newer tractors have shorter arms keeping the weight closer to the tractor body. I could not believe some of lift capacity.
I almost say, get 10-15 HP more than you think you need. You think you need a 30 HP, get a 45 HP, need a 45HP get a 55 or 60 HP. And if you dont think you need a front end loader you're wrong and just don't know it. Get a front end loader. You wont regret it. Same thing in IT, building out a server or storage array, always get the biggest size drive you can afford, Skimp on memory if it means you can get more drive space. Memory is easy to upgrade later, expanding the drive space is much more involved and harder to do. You wont regret going more HP, but you will regret getting less.
I bought a 30 horsepower tractor about 5 years ago I want a 50 horsepower now. So all ways get 15 or 20 more hp
Boy, I wish I would of gone for one bigger than 33 HP! I had my wife finally convinced to let me bite the bullet & I could of easily gone for one bigger & had her approve but 33 HP does okay but has limits!
Your comment about the injector screw is very interesting, I've heard that can be done but waiting till the warranty runs out. My question to you is how much can you safely turn it up and how would you know when you cross that line?
Yeah, I wouldn't try that on my own. Find a good diesel injection shop and let them do it.
Mike, great info and advice. But as you often seem to do, you fail to address physical size of the tractor compared to the jobs/task that need to be done. Perhaps you have a feed hut to put round bales in which could affect tractor width, or you work in trees and need to stay with a smaller frame tractor, or going the other direction and need to stack bales which requires lift capacity at higher level heights and possibly a larger frame tractor for greater height.
Also as others mentioned, PTO HP may be more important that engine PTO and the loss of HP with different transmission types.
I know that the list is long, but new to tractor folks need to consider all of these points and more as they look for that 1st tractor, even more so as product availability is as it is currently and has been for a while.
While personally I am not a fan of HST, there are times they are useful over shuttle and gear only transmissions.
It would be good to refer to other videos on these topics and even arrange a grouping for new tractor owners/buyers of lots of topic areas.
Another rule of thumb for a rotary cutter is too have 5hp on the PTO per each foot of cutter. So a 5 foot cutter needs at least 25 hp on the PTO, 6 foot needs 30 hp, etc.
Also depends on intended use. I have a 5 foot on my 30PTO HP New Holland and it has served me well for 10+ years. Have a 6 foot on order and it will only be used to cut pastures, not clear land. Saving the 5 footer for clearing duty an 6 foot to cut more quickly. My old 23 PTO HP tractor had plenty of power for the 5 foot but not enough weight on front end. Your numbers are good to know
Horsepower is exaggerated. Companies claim less than 25 horsepower is useless but there are millions of tractors with fewer than twenty horsepower that will out work all new tractor the same size. Case 112 steam engine was 2 horsepower and pulls railcars and train engines ...
Hey buddy how do I know what Size engine I have on my tractor it's a Ford. Thank you it's an 8 in but not sure. 3 digit code is 851 18" rear and has the eggshell grill
Easy. Figure out which one you need. Then buy the next size bigger.
Can you explain the difference(s) between the various series of tractors at the same horsepower sometime? For example when I was shopping for my first tractor about 4 years ago, I could get a 40 hp tractor in say, a 1600 series, a 2600 series, and a 3600 series. It was very hard for me to distinguish which one I should buy and why, especially when it came to cost. Thanks Mike for all the videos. 😁👨🚒
Please provide additional information such as the brand of tractor you were looking at. I should be able to help with this question.
Most companies have an economy series and a deluxe series. The 1600 and 3600 are considered the deluxe series and the 2600 is more economy and they're made in different parts of the world. 1600 and 3600 are Japanese built, 2600 comes from Korea. There should be a substantial price difference in the three.
Always appreciate your insight Mike. I've owned only 2 tractors so my experience is limited. But the most helpful point you made for me was to determine the tasks to be performed. I added the caviates of immediate tasks, future tasks, and long term tasks. My first tractor was a used 24hp that I knew was undersized for my long term and future tasks. But it was too good of a deal to pass up, was a great "trainer" tractor, and good enough for my immediate tasks. When shopping for my new tractor a few years back, I focused on frame size first, which addressed lift capacities, then hp within that frame size. The frame size I selected has the lift capacity to handle my long term and future tasks, with ballisting and footprint size needed for stability on my terrain, while still having the manueverability I need in wooded areas. The HPs in that frame size and manufacturer range from 30 to 55 hp, the only difference being turbo size and tuning. So I selected the hp with just enough pto hp to drive the impliments I wanted to buy, while forcing the engine to work hard enough to extend the time between DPF cycles. For my application, I hit the sweet spot with 45 horses. Your input helped guide many of my conversations and decisions while shopping. So thanks for your help in my successful outcome.
Hi Mike, I was wondering if you can help me out. I'm torn between the massey ferguson 2606H 65hp and 2607H 74hp. I own 20acres and plan on doing brush cutting up to 3inchs with some hills and eventually getting some cows for raising beef for my family. Is it worth spending the extra few thousand and going with the 74hp? I also plan on doing some brush cutting on the side.
Thanks
I always say to get the biggest tractor you can afford, especially if you'll be working it like you will be.
Great explanations. I think getting the biggest you can afford is good advice to a point. I have a 50+hp which is good for what I need but, I also need to be able to cut and maintain my wooded areas as well and something in the mid 30's to mid 40's hp range on a smaller frame would work better for that. I agree that the main deciding factor should be what implements you plan on using and what hp they recommend or require.
My solution to that problem is I make the trail fit the tractor.
Shredder in Texas!
Is there a ratio between engine hp, PTO hp, and drawbar hp?
Yes, but that ratio varies on a tractor by tractor basis. That is, if one 25hp tractor has 12 PTO hp, a 25hp tractor from another manufacturer may have a different PTO hp. PTO hp is generally a function of how much of the tractor's hydraulic power is consumed by power steering, other hydraulics, (and how that split is made), and by the transmission. Drawbar hp is a function of the efficiency of the transmission. A hydrostatic transmission consumes some of the engine's horsepower. A manual transmission, generally, consumes less. So, there are design choices that will affect how much of a tractor's engine hp is available at the PTO or the drawbar.
Not really. Engine horsepower will always be bigger, the parasitic loss for powering the hydraulics, steering, hydro (if equipped), or power shifts/power shuttles reduces the horsepower to the PTO. It will vary, depending on how much power those items consume. I'm not all that familiar with how drawbar horsepower is measured, and since we don't do much tillage work where I live, it's not a number I pay much attention to. Here's where it gets measured: tractortestlab.unl.edu/.
Is there any pros or cons to all being equal on a make and model where the HP is the same but one is a 3 cylinder vs a 4 cylinder with the same horse power? Advantage in longevity with 4 vs 3 perhaps?
Diesel engines have four cycles, intake, compression, ignition and exhaust. So, with a four cylinder engine, each cylinder is on one of those cycles which gives a natural balance to things. Three cylinder engines don't have that. My money would be on the four cylinder lasting longer and running quieter.
Horse power. There are some small horse power tractors that are over and above. As a general rule, get all the horse power that you can afford.
Country boy,need a tractor big enough to do the hardest job on the farm.
24.5 if new if not making money with it
Have you ever had a customer who traded in a tractor because it had too much power?
No.
One of my buddies that has several tractors convinced me a Kubota 3301 would have more hp than I would ever need. He was wrong. He was as full of bs for that as he is everything else. It will be paid off in three more payments. Want to trade for something bigger.
Why did you take his opinion as gospel then 🤷♂
Oh dear....If i would've got my tractor based on this, I think, I would be screwed bad now. Those thumb-rules are mostly misleading. You didn't miss everything but a few things got messed up.
GREAT ADVICE! This information is great and will be very helpful to all those Weekend Farmers that are looking for their first tractor. We need more owners with vast amount of knowledge, like yourself, that can help point newbies in the right direction when the dealers just want to make a sell. Keep up the great videos and awesome advice!
Simple: A much as you can afford while still affording the implements you need, and will still fit in your shed. Unfortunately for me, that meant 25HP :(
If you have a tractor with more HP than you ever use, and it’s Tier 4, it’ll soot up more than using a tractor with a HP rating appropriate for the tasks you do…..so recommending the biggest HP unit to me isn’t necessarily great advice.