The issue is motherboard manufacturers very often putting up unnecessary high voltage, far from Intel guidelines even. Guidelines being 100°C, it's surprising you do your test with a 115 limit and conclude on the cooler handling it at 110.
You should do these tests again, but this time using an aftermarket cpu contact frame when testing the coolers. The default contact frame that comes with every LGA 1700 motherboard has a flaw where the contact frame does not put the cpu perfectly level with the socket. This means when you install any cooler, the cooler does not make proper contact with every corner of the cpu. Some popular aftermarket contact frames are one sold by Thermal Grizzly and one sold by Thermalright.
The idea behind these is -out of the box- Once I get into contact frames, it’s more about the frame than about the cooler. Generally, they should just do a better job with mounting so that this doesn’t even become a topic to begin with
I am running the 13900k with an ROG Strix LC II 360 AIO on a ROG Strix x790-E. My temps are good, I have never seen the CPU go above 85 c (during a stress test). For the most part when I am gaming the CPU sits around 60 - 70 C. I use the AI OC available in the BIOS. I also have a giant case with good air flow.
I've been looking at building a gaming pc and you are the only one who has managed to make any sense out of all the videos of people failing to get below 100°C. I've found a few components that are new and below half the usual cost so far so thank you for your suggestions on those components.
Which test? Plz, can you do the,same, but in occt 12v with preset below: small data set steady fixed 28 threads instruction set - sse for 20+m i think. and, your xtu ratios.
@@КвасИСышка The test I used was the Asus AI Suite OC tool. I don't use any crazy OC settings, just the standard XMP II profile for my RAM which will OC to 5.5 GHZ. I had issues using AI Overclocking so I stopped using that feature and only use the AI cooling for my Fan Curve.
That's the setup I was originally looking at...I do not really want to go the liquid cooled route. What's a typical temp you see in normal computing/gaming that's not trying to max out the system? And which motherboard, did you have to tweak it to keep it from allowing the watts to get too high?
I have a thermaltake 240 on my 13700 and it only hits 98 during cinabench. It isn’t undervolted. Everything is on auto. Hits 5.5-5.6 ghz. Custom fan curve helped me a lot. I couldn’t imagine the 13900
When a car company starts producing dragsters instead of practical cars, focusing only on top speed. Who cares if you have to swap tires after every run and refurb the engine. Top of the chart, tho. Have they forgotten that these have to work in consumer PCs?
like the tests are done. I'm in a new PC build now, how does the CPU get 380w when Intel say the max draw at turbo is 253W? Processor Base Power 125 W Maximum Turbo Power 253 W and now there is a 14900k on its way - which seems to be the same
btw it seems like 5.7 ghz on all core is doable by factory at around 1.3v. DONT go past 5.8 unless you want to give yourself a headace. I think thats the way to approach for most people. 5.7 on all 8 is where its at. It within the range of the factory voltage curve. 😎😎
I have new settings which I am using for my i9-13900k and i9-14900k. I don’t like the uncertainty of undervolting so prefer working with power and clock limits. With these settings I got a couple of FPS BETTER on CP2077 and Forza Horizon Benchmark, went from 99th to 98th percentile on PC Mark Extended, passed the Time Spy Stress Test, Time Spy was within a whisker of the average for my hardware, Cinebench R23 finished between 37-38000, CPU-Z, Intel Diag tool and Prime95 was stable and < 90 degrees. MCE off, PL1 and PL2 limit to 225, limit P-core boost to 5.3 GHz and E-core boost to 4.0GHz, and use balanced power profile in Windows (although I do disable core parking to keep system highly responsive). Oh and just XMP on the RAM. I didn’t change voltage or LLC values. With these settings, you should have no stability issues, be able to run on an air cooler like the NH-D15 (what I use on my 3 i9 13th/14th gen systems) and will barely notice any performance changes in gaming or productivity.
Update: I have now set voltage offset at a modest -0.010v. I have disabled the C6&C7 C states and EIST. I have then increated max P core clock to 5.5GHz and E cores to 4.3GHz. Lastly I have locked AVX at 0 offset. I have tested on P95/CB R23 and CB R15. All great and in a mid 20 degree room, no workload exceeds 80c on package or cores. Happy Bunn
Would you be able to put together a custom loop to test? Watercool RAD 360-L, 3x Phanteks T30, Watercool Heatkiller IV pro block, flexible tubing. Would be awesome to see if custom cooling without direct die can keep up.
Just like for the 13600k, I see in your test the Artic Freezer 280 performs better than the the Artic Freezer 360. And not just a little, there is a gap - and evem weirder, the 280 is almost as efficient as the 420. I dont get it, 280x140=39200 mm square, and 360x120=43200 mm square, so, why is the 280 better than the 360 ? I have a 360 so I'm especially interested in this question.
I actually have my CPU loop going into a small mini fridge type design not a fridge exactly, but that I have designed to conduct its thermals too and I get 75C max
I have a 13900k with a Noctua U12A stock in CB23 score 38k point with undervolting + power limit with Intel spec also with throttling setting bios Max core temp of 90c score 37k but gaming not even hit 75c
idk i understand that you prefer testing "out of the box" config, but its mobo manufacturers fault leaving that disgusting unlimited power mode on cpu. Intel spec says that this cpu has max of 253W power limit, in other words, at least with your mobo, it came overclocked out of the box and out of spec. I would much prefer if you tested with at least 253W watt pl2 sustained power limit. Also contact frame is also quite nice as it reduces temps by about ~8c on avg
Get a Contact frame + Undervolt and you should be able to use a 13900k in gaming with NH-D15s, now on rendering..... no AIO is going to hold you, you need a dedicated loop to keep it below 100C, and even then if you don't control the power, it might even reach it.
Should the writing on the front of a processor fade after using paste? After wiping, the Intel 13900K text is now gone and underneath has revealed Pentium 90
Wtf😅 No, the writing may go away over time, but that’s not because of regular thermalpaste, but because of coolers mounted too hard. That doesn’t explain the other text though Aliexpress cpu?
On one hand, I'm think 'this is crazy' on the other hand I think for the price and demographic this CPU is marketed to ('enthusiast') this kind of just makes sense. Tinkering is expected from this crowd who wants the most powerful and 'unlocked' stuff.
I was able to keep my i9-13900K under 100 degrees full load with ASUS multi-core enhancement no limits with a 360mm AIO at 100%, but I think its also because I have 7 high airflow case fans at 3000rpm 24/7 lol
Its not just about keeping the 13900k under 100 degrees. Even a simple air cooler like the Noctua NHd15 can do that. The challenge is keeping it under 100 degrees at very high clock speeds on all cores, which is something your 360 AIO cannot do.
Have you tried EK Nucleus and Asus Rog RYUO? They seem to do also exceptional job as also the Arctic :D Great videos, hope you do even more, road to 100k!
![Shocking Results: Testing 22 Air-Coolers Against AIO on 285W High-End CPU 13900k [AIO vs Air]](/img/n.gif)
The issue is motherboard manufacturers very often putting up unnecessary high voltage, far from Intel guidelines even. Guidelines being 100°C, it's surprising you do your test with a 115 limit and conclude on the cooler handling it at 110.
You should do these tests again, but this time using an aftermarket cpu contact frame when testing the coolers. The default contact frame that comes with every LGA 1700 motherboard has a flaw where the contact frame does not put the cpu perfectly level with the socket. This means when you install any cooler, the cooler does not make proper contact with every corner of the cpu.
Some popular aftermarket contact frames are one sold by Thermal Grizzly and one sold by Thermalright.
The idea behind these is -out of the box-
Once I get into contact frames, it’s more about the frame than about the cooler.
Generally, they should just do a better job with mounting so that this doesn’t even become a topic to begin with
I am running the 13900k with an ROG Strix LC II 360 AIO on a ROG Strix x790-E. My temps are good, I have never seen the CPU go above 85 c (during a stress test). For the most part when I am gaming the CPU sits around 60 - 70 C. I use the AI OC available in the BIOS. I also have a giant case with good air flow.
I've been looking at building a gaming pc and you are the only one who has managed to make any sense out of all the videos of people failing to get below 100°C. I've found a few components that are new and below half the usual cost so far so thank you for your suggestions on those components.
@donz6 Zotac 4090 Trinity OC.
Full.atx?
Which test?
Plz, can you do the,same, but in occt 12v with preset below:
small data set
steady
fixed 28 threads
instruction set - sse
for 20+m i think.
and, your xtu ratios.
@@КвасИСышка The test I used was the Asus AI Suite OC tool. I don't use any crazy OC settings, just the standard XMP II profile for my RAM which will OC to 5.5 GHZ. I had issues using AI Overclocking so I stopped using that feature and only use the AI cooling for my Fan Curve.
This CPU seems to be a parody designed for benchmarks
Really like this series! Would be interessting to see you guys X3D chips, like 5800x3d and the future 7800x3d
I have a u12a on a 13900k, worrks just fine, handles 330w in ycruncher - score 41.500 in cinebench at 85c / 260 watts.
👍🏻
That's the setup I was originally looking at...I do not really want to go the liquid cooled route. What's a typical temp you see in normal computing/gaming that's not trying to max out the system? And which motherboard, did you have to tweak it to keep it from allowing the watts to get too high?
I have a thermaltake 240 on my 13700 and it only hits 98 during cinabench. It isn’t undervolted. Everything is on auto. Hits 5.5-5.6 ghz. Custom fan curve helped me a lot. I couldn’t imagine the 13900
You guys really wanna know things and are good at explaining it. Thanks 😃
When a car company starts producing dragsters instead of practical cars, focusing only on top speed.
Who cares if you have to swap tires after every run and refurb the engine. Top of the chart, tho. Have they forgotten that these have to work in consumer PCs?
like the tests are done. I'm in a new PC build now, how does the CPU get 380w when Intel say the max draw at turbo is 253W?
Processor Base Power 125 W
Maximum Turbo Power 253 W
and now there is a 14900k on its way - which seems to be the same
try liquid metal, and copper-based heat sink with alter spines
and
build specific flow tunnel to the cpu direction
that will be differnt
btw it seems like 5.7 ghz on all core is doable by factory at around 1.3v. DONT go past 5.8 unless you want to give yourself a headace. I think thats the way to approach for most people. 5.7 on all 8 is where its at. It within the range of the factory voltage curve. 😎😎
For under $600, what is the best humanly possible aio cooler?
Aio? Lian Li GA2 Performance
600$? Custom waterloop, even these sets from Alphacool will do great
I have new settings which I am using for my i9-13900k and i9-14900k. I don’t like the uncertainty of undervolting so prefer working with power and clock limits. With these settings I got a couple of FPS BETTER on CP2077 and Forza Horizon Benchmark, went from 99th to 98th percentile on PC Mark Extended, passed the Time Spy Stress Test, Time Spy was within a whisker of the average for my hardware, Cinebench R23 finished between 37-38000, CPU-Z, Intel Diag tool and Prime95 was stable and < 90 degrees.
MCE off, PL1 and PL2 limit to 225, limit P-core boost to 5.3 GHz and E-core boost to 4.0GHz, and use balanced power profile in Windows (although I do disable core parking to keep system highly responsive). Oh and just XMP on the RAM. I didn’t change voltage or LLC values.
With these settings, you should have no stability issues, be able to run on an air cooler like the NH-D15 (what I use on my 3 i9 13th/14th gen systems) and will barely notice any performance changes in gaming or productivity.
Update: I have now set voltage offset at a modest -0.010v. I have disabled the C6&C7 C states and EIST. I have then increated max P core clock to 5.5GHz and E cores to 4.3GHz. Lastly I have locked AVX at 0 offset. I have tested on P95/CB R23 and CB R15. All great and in a mid 20 degree room, no workload exceeds 80c on package or cores. Happy Bunn
Update 2: I have now undervolted to -0.015v and set the Core limit to 300 Amps. Performance is still good.
14900KS should be the next one to be tested.
I see you're even using Xilence coolers in your tests, but no Thermalright Peerless Assassin or Phantom Spirit?
Delid, man, with Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut. Works a trick.
Would you be able to put together a custom loop to test? Watercool RAD 360-L, 3x Phanteks T30, Watercool Heatkiller IV pro block, flexible tubing. Would be awesome to see if custom cooling without direct die can keep up.
Send this video to Linus to refute his claim that air coolers are enough.
Just like for the 13600k, I see in your test the Artic Freezer 280 performs better than the the Artic Freezer 360. And not just a little, there is a gap - and evem weirder, the 280 is almost as efficient as the 420. I dont get it, 280x140=39200 mm square, and 360x120=43200 mm square, so, why is the 280 better than the 360 ? I have a 360 so I'm especially interested in this question.
@STS ?
Hi! You don't mention the 280 AiO yet it seems it came close second on the chart? Can you please explain? :)
I actually have my CPU loop going into a small mini fridge type design not a fridge exactly, but that I have designed to conduct its thermals too and I get 75C max
I have a 13900k with a Noctua U12A stock in CB23 score 38k point with undervolting + power limit with Intel spec also with throttling setting bios Max core temp of 90c score 37k but gaming not even hit 75c
Noctuas running at full speed, getting noisy?
so... if i dont plan on overclocking going for NH-D15 should be fine, but just to be safe, you should be going for liquid freezer 2 420mm ?
Have you test the Ice Giant on this?
Hey, nowadays what 360 AIO can keep a i9 13900K CPU cool without throttling in heavey tests?
These cpus are designed to run all the way up to 100c. All coolers will be fine, just will throttle accordingly
If you run your 13900 at 13600 speeds because it's throttling, just buy a 13600.
There is no point in buying this over a 13600k if it throttles unless for bragging rights. And one might best get the need for those treated.
I have same cpu / cooler combo, and STILL hit 100c
Is it good for video editing and playing video games???
yes, yes it is
idk i understand that you prefer testing "out of the box" config, but its mobo manufacturers fault leaving that disgusting unlimited power mode on cpu. Intel spec says that this cpu has max of 253W power limit, in other words, at least with your mobo, it came overclocked out of the box and out of spec. I would much prefer if you tested with at least 253W watt pl2 sustained power limit.
Also contact frame is also quite nice as it reduces temps by about ~8c on avg
You’re right on the mobo part, and everybody is thinking that. But it’s still out of the box. Shitty, but unfortunate fact
Get a Contact frame + Undervolt and you should be able to use a 13900k in gaming with NH-D15s, now on rendering..... no AIO is going to hold you, you need a dedicated loop to keep it below 100C, and even then if you don't control the power, it might even reach it.
Use shortcut and GPU Rendering and you'll be set.
will it fit in a corsair 275r?
The contact frame is a must. You also need to undervolt in the BIOS. You'll be fine with a 240mm aio if you do this. You'll be under throttle temps.
You sure that a 240mm would be enough to tame the temps? With maximum fan speed maybe, but can’t imagine otherwise
Should the writing on the front of a processor fade after using paste? After wiping, the Intel 13900K text is now gone and underneath has revealed Pentium 90
Wtf😅
No, the writing may go away over time, but that’s not because of regular thermalpaste, but because of coolers mounted too hard. That doesn’t explain the other text though
Aliexpress cpu?
CPU cooler contact has been a problem with these boards, wonder how much of a difference something like the thermalright pressure plate makes
which are not bad but too expensive, aftermarket ones are as good but better priced.
@@hanswurst2220 it's like $12..
@@hanswurst2220 you might be thinking of the thermal grizzly which is grossly overpriced
Please make a video on 14900k, I want to buy the i9 14th gen but I'm afraid I can't cool it :/
is in the making!
Why there is no lianli aio?
How do I lower my cpu sometime it reaches 107celcius but it stays at 95 and above
Bigger cooler?
@@STSYT my cooler is huge 360mm and it’s in the hyte y60 case.
Try Intel Cryo Cooler.
On one hand, I'm think 'this is crazy' on the other hand I think for the price and demographic this CPU is marketed to ('enthusiast') this kind of just makes sense. Tinkering is expected from this crowd who wants the most powerful and 'unlocked' stuff.
i9 13900K draws much more than 380W ... it also draws the souls of fallen AMD cpu due to bad memory controllers ... lol ... XD
what abt a i9 13 900 kf
To bad you didn't add the EK 360 aio :(
We just bought a bunch of new coolers from brands we haven't tested before, including EK. Reviews will be published soon :)
@@STSYT nice 😊
I was able to keep my i9-13900K under 100 degrees full load with ASUS multi-core enhancement no limits with a 360mm AIO at 100%, but I think its also because I have 7 high airflow case fans at 3000rpm 24/7 lol
Its not just about keeping the 13900k under 100 degrees. Even a simple air cooler like the Noctua NHd15 can do that. The challenge is keeping it under 100 degrees at very high clock speeds on all cores, which is something your 360 AIO cannot do.
380w I know right!?! 🤣🤣
custom water is the way to go these days
Have you tried EK Nucleus and Asus Rog RYUO?
They seem to do also exceptional job as also the Arctic :D
Great videos, hope you do even more, road to 100k!
Corsair h150 capellix 360 is ok for that?
Sorry but no idea, never tested it myself