Donner DLP-124 Les Paul copy set up
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- In this video I'm setting up Iain's Donner DLP-124 , a fairly inexpensive slab-bodied 'Les Paul' style guitar listed on Amazon at £139. This guitar is comparable in build and equipment and price to the Harley Benton SC200. The two follow a simple pattern: bolt-on neck, basic chrome hardware, 2 humbuckers, tech-wood fingerboard, flat poplar body (not basswood as I mentioned in the video!), simple 3 way switch with volume and tone mini pots. So the Donner isn't a rock-bottom price; it occupies the first run on the guitar ladder with Harley Benton and a few others (Fazely being another brand in this space). Guitar snobs will turn their noses up a these guitars for all kinds of reasons: brand, price, thin 'non-tonewood' bodies, no sculpted tops, cheap electrics, creaky tuners and of course, because they're bolt-on rather than set necks. Here's what I found: the neck feels nice to play (very nice grain with satin poly over the top) and the pickups sound pretty nice to my ears. With a set up this guitar plays and stays in tune and has a lovely low playing action. It's unfussy and you wouldn't be precious about it if you took it out gigging somewhere. Does it need a set up to make it play well? Yes - if you want buzz and choke free low action and reliable tuning stability. But then again, so do guitars costing 10 times as much. Does the Donner need any more work than the big brand names for all its cheapness? No - exactly the same work is required regardless of the price point.
Judging by the fit of the nut on this guitar, it appears that they use NuBone at the Donner factory. Despite this being a better material - and despite someone having taken time to shape the nut and cut down the slots - it still wasn't keeping the guitar in tune, which is why I upgraded to the adjustable Tusq nut. This investment is far more likely to make Iain want to reach for this guitar off the peg because it will more than likely be in tune and if it isn't it will tune up quickly and easily. This is actually a rare thing in guitars and for me a #1 priority.
Overall, no more or less work required than an equivalent Harley Benton or even Epiphone Special VE and as much fun as either of those two. The HB is glossier and tackier to the touch while the Epiphone has a bit better build quality for its higher price. In the end, the things that set these guitars apart from each other are the things that are hardest to assess just by looking at pictures i.e. the feel of the neck and the sound of the pickups.
You made that inexpensive guitar play like a thousand dollar instrument. That is magic !
Can you talk about the stop bar/tailpiece in you next Les Paul type video please, so much discussion on forums about raising or keeping it flat. Great video as always. 👍😎
Hi Expo, thanks for the comment & feedback :) I don't have a lot of wisdom to impart about the stop bar except this: your action dictates where the bridge has to sit on its posts; after that you want your stop bar to create 'enough' break angle of the strings over the saddles. For me, that's about all there is to it. Some people insist that reverse threading the strings and bringing them over the top of the stop bar makes the action feel different... but what it certainly will do is reduce the break angle of the strings considerably. The key things about the anchor points at each end (the nut and the saddles) is that a) they're stable and solidly fitted and b) that the strings pass over at a break angle that presses down sufficient to make the string-to-apex connection solid. The string wants two 'fixed' points between which to spin and flap. Downward pressure onto a sharp point or edge (in the case of the nut) is what establishes those fixed points. The firmer these are, the less string energy is wasted shaking the pivots (and beyond) and the more is translated into moving the strings. Of course I'm referring to the electric guitar here (i.e. the Les Paul style you're enquiring about).
From that perspective I don't think you can overdo the break angle at the bridge: I personally want an angle of 15º or more. It will play with less but the smaller an angle the more energy will seep into shaking the string between the saddle and the stop bar up to a point where the string isn't even touching the saddle in which case it will either play dead or, worse, the stop bar becomes the string's new 'start point' (if it's high enough up).
At the nut end, an ideal nut 'format' is the Zero Fret (i.e. a clear pivot point for the string with a break angle behind it) BUT zero frets bring their own problems such as notching from the get-go. So the nut is a longer-lasting solution but for this to work ideally as a pivot point, the slope in the nut slot behind the front edge needs to be a greater angle than the string angle (!) so that the front of the nut slot can act as a point. Most nuts don't do this; the nut slot still acts as a 'start point' but with a flattened 'pivot' and the string playing length begins at the front edge where the string leaves the nut slot. The risk with conventional nuts (apart from their capacity to cause friction and ruin tuning stability) is when the nut slot break angle is too small; the string ends up passing over it without pressing down sufficiently at any single definable point. The close it gets to that, the deader it sounds.
So back to the stop bar: you want a distinct apex on your saddle and enough break angle to press the string firmly down. Whether that's 15º or 45º makes very little difference and - in my experience - rarely breaks strings over the saddles no matter how great the angle is. Hope all that's useful! :)
Fretboard is not 'techwood', it's Indian Laurel.
I came across this guitar by accident while browsing on UA-cam, then of course having watched one UA-cam recommended more demos of it. I had a look on ebay and was blown away by the price! There was a discount code special, I ended up paying only AUD$120. It was worth the gamble at that price, and it paid off.
I know Australians pay a lot for guitars due to shipping and greed. The Tele style one looks cool from Donner also. I have this and the fat strat in shell pink. The strat is actually nice also., though they have a few versions.
May I suggest that instead of going into a philosophical discourse, you focus on the work at hand and give us pragmatic advice on guitar layout. This way information transfers to the viewer which can improve their own understanding of how to work on a guitar. I hope this premise and explanation work for you! As an example, you may have said, "I'm adjusting the crown of the frets now, having completed leveling. I use the colored marker to show where I've ground material off the frets. For your consideration, Professor!
You can suggest anything you like but I’ll continue ‘being myself’. I can understand that you may think I make videos for viewers to learn how to do this or that but that isn’t the case. If it was, then I would probably have nice cameras, be very concise and have tight editing etc. These videos are intended first and foremost to show the person what I did with their guitar. Secondly it’s to show a prospective customer what I would be doing with their guitar if they chose to send it to me. For those two types of viewer this format is perfect and continues to bring me in a steady flow of qualified prospective customers. By qualified In mean customers who have already decided that they like what I do and want me to do it for them. That’s exactly what I set out to have these videos do for me. The fact that x amount of people watch them is great and the small amount I get per month from Google in ad revenue is a bonus, no more than that. So it’s a different function and a different approach to many channels that are dependent on ad revenues, sponsorship, merch and Patreon etc. Channels like that need numbers, need to be popular and need to entertain in ways that I don’t. Hope that sheds light on why it is how it is.
Ive put shims in some of my neck pockets and the guitars play better when the neck angle is wrong or cant get action low enough.
The tonewood thing is complete rubbish its been proven.
the only way the wood makes a difference of the tone on an electric guitar is accousticaly.
theres my $5 worth
It looks to me that Donner has updated or at least altered the dlp-124 a bit, because I have just bought one (10/10/22), and there are a few subtle differences compared to all the 2021 models I've seen on UA-cam so far. The main differences are:- headstock logo is a different font design, the humbuckers are shiny type plastic, whereas a UA-cam reviewer mentioned that his were of a rough texture. I have also read different body woods, one being basswood, and another poplar. Anyone else noticed these differences with their guitar?
Wanting to be right is such an all-consuming longing and one that few of us want to look at in ourselves. But it drives the vast majority of discussion, arguments, wars going on in the present day. Needing to be right stems from an unexamined fear of being wrong - something that we were programmed with at an early age and can only free ourselves of if / when we've finally had enough of the fruitless life it brings.
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars I'm not sure if your reply to the OP makes any sense....were they expressing a need or desire to "be right"?
To me they were simply asking about differences in two different production years of the DLP-124.
@@klauswigsmith I think someone has deleted their comment in the intervening months… Either that or I was responding in the wrong place to something else - you’re right, as it stands my comment makes no sense :)
I just came here from 'the Budget Guitar Show' who I support. I cant believe you're playing "Brass In Pocket' I've been on a Pretenders binge for the last 12 hours or so! Great video Sam ,wow you really know your stuff.
I can't believe I was playing brass in pocket... I've completely forgotten if I did or not. Thanks for stopping in - that Donner is definitely doing the rounds! :-D
You looked like you knew about guitars but all the woffle put me off watching your entire video.
If had only just talked about the things you were doing and why, would have been sufficient. It's a shame because you're obviously knowledgeable
My videos are not for you; that’s OK. I’m not about to change how I do things though 😊
Hi i found this really interesting having bought the same guitar but the black version (novice guitarist)
I noticed where the neck is screwed to the body the white line of the neck was not level with the body i removed the neck to check and found a large piece of shim close to the pick up side of body this scared me a bit thinking i had bought a dud but after watching your video it has become a bit more clearer it plays and sounds ok no buzz etc but i cant unsee that difference lol.
Thanks from a welsh subscriber
Shims are common in factory made guitars; they’re just a way of fine-tuning the basic geometry between neck and body. There are varying opinions on shims from those who think they’re terrible and will cause the neck heel to deform and those who think they’re perfectly fine - including Fender with their ‘micro-tilt’ system which is essentially a shim. Some people try, if they use a shim, try to make it wedge-shaped citing their discomfort at the idea of an air gap as the reason but it didn’t bother Fender much and it doesn’t bother me :) The adjustment that a shim gives you can be achieved by careful routing adjustment to the neck pocket if people are REALLY freaked out by shims :)
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars Thank you i doesnt really bother me at all now you have explained it thanks.
I am now the proud owner of a Donner DST, a Gould LP and a Westfield SG. Thanks Sam.
Thats Donner single cut reminds me of a Epiphone Les Paul Special.
wickedgit - Brilliant observation, absolutely extraordinary!!!
I’ve got a Donner tele deluxe type thing. It’s not bad. I like it. It had a bad hum out the box. I got it so when I want to mod a guitar. I’d choose that one. I paid like 57$ for it. After the gift card and a coupon.
Just bought this guitar in black for under 100 bucks used so I found your video. I think he biggest thing you are mentioning about people and their points of view that doesn't make sense is that most peoples points of view aren't their own. Especially from experience. They just regurgitate what they read online and take it as fact because they don't have the knowledge and/or experience to have an opinion of their own to support the claims that was force fed to them by someone on the internet. Yes my sentences are long and running on but im drinking so what are ya gonna do. Anyways most people don't wanna think, they just wanna be right, or at least feel like they are right so once you challenge them and they have have no evidence or experience to back up their, or not their own, claims they have nothing to fall back on. Which is why so many people retaliate with anger or aggression despite being invited to a legitimate debate for the sake of sharing knowledge. People are generally kinda dumb, at least many are so I just tend to ignore the ones that don't wanna share their opinions. Key word being SHARE, because sharing knowledge is never an aggressive thing. Its a learning experience for both parties and challenges in opinion should always be seen as potential to learn something new. But like I said before, some people just wanna feel like they are right for....reasons.
I guess the issue with the low frets at the top of the neck would be an argument fir spending more money on a guitar where the QC at the factory might be at better standard. Not to say that same issues cannot happen on the most expensive guitars, but the selection of wood for necks even in China and Indonesia, will be influenced by the company ordering the guitars and the price they are paying the supplier and therefore charging the customer. I have no scientific evidence for this - sorry Sam - but from my limited experience levelling guitar necks, the cheapest ones have been the least consistent. Of course, Gibson are producing some god awful QC on some of their new guitars, but in the mid range from modern guitar makers, the necks are pretty darn consistent so far as I have found anyway :)
I think it's a 'quality of wood' issue... but other commenters have pointed out that the 'wood' here is in fact a vertical laminate construction so should be very stable. But the significantly low 2 or 3 frets are evidence of a dip in the neck at that point, rather than any issue with the frets themselves. The amount of dips ('hills and valleys' I call them) in a neck can vary hugely but I have noticed recently that a couple of Fender maple-boarded necks were the straightest (fewest ups and downs) vs. everything else below that Fender MIM price point. How many ups and downs there are in a single neck varies and is only discernible when the neck is loaded and under longitudinal compression. It's almost an argument for levelling the board under compression BEFORE fitting the frets and then fine-tune levelling them with the strings on.... (goes away with an idea....! :-)
TO VINTAGE BIKES !🏍 I happened upon this posting from CANADA - let me take a serious point of disagreement 16:34 with ol' poopy-pants😎 "vintage bikes"- 🏍 I stayed for the delightful commentary - w/ insightful historical obiter (a'-la'-viktor klemmperer!,- let me say, -I ASSUME from the " --19:18-- IG --19:29-- IGNORATI commentary by "Bikey-buns/Poopy-pants" that he is an American!,- that ATTITUDE of IGNORANCE!,- is why my GRANDFATHER left ENGLAND 🏴 🇬🇧 FOR GOOD!, after three bros. Returned (from ROCKY MOUNTAIN hunting, fishing, and EXPLORING Canadian BLACKFOOT and OGALLALLA SIOUX culture on the ALBERTA plains, after seeking refuge in CANADA 🇨🇦 w/ THE QUEENS OWN MOUNTIES!, after being HUNTED by the AMERICAN 7th CAVALRY post "LITTLE-BIG-HORN!"- Lets just say my "UNCLES" got back to ENGLAND 🏴 in time to be at DUNKIRK!, DIEPPE!,; one to fly in the BATTLE OF BRITAIN! -(a GOOD 3 years before the 1st AMERICAN lolly-gagged over WELL AFTER PEARL HARBOUR! - ERGO: "Lay on McDuff!, your account of VIKTOR KLEMPERER!, is bloody fascinating, mate!, - and- bloody Important!, - oh, COOL guitar "stuff", too!,- from a guitar afficisnado
Thank you for your good-humoured support Lenny!
Another great video - thank you
Thanks Sam. I hadn't commented or said hello in a few years. So hello again. Hope you are doing well.
Hi Patrick :) Hope all's well with you & yours
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars I Sam I want to send my guitar to you ‘ how can I do that pls ?
@@i-witness3624 Hi - email me at samdeeks@gmail.com with details about the guitar and your location & what you're looking to have done and I'll get back to you. Thanks!
Great video. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge and expertise. Could you point me in the right direction regarding the grover tuning machines you used to replace the Donner ones? Would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.
Hi George, I am the owner of the Donner. I purchased the Grovers and posted them to Sam along with the guitar. They are "Grover Rotomatic 102N Tuners, Nickel 3 x 3", hope this helps.
@@iainh631 That's a big help. Thank you so much.
@@iainh631 I want to post my guitar to Sam could you pls help me with his contact ? I have a donner and I will love the upgrade too
"Bonjjjjourrrrrr Jean-Yves" :))))) Je ne connais pas grand chose aux bois, mais whaaaaaaaaaaaaa c'est beau....certaine de ces pièces ont un côté "organique" qui est incroyable !!! J'ai des images de teinture à la "Big D Guitars" qui me font saliver. J'espère que tu nous montreras ce que ces merveilles vont devenir ! p.s. j'ai l'impression que la collectionnite aigue est assez courante chez les amateurs de guitares....
Grover tuners are not cheap. Take a fake 100 quid LP guitar, and make it play well. Why knock a basic experiment that can improve a guitar on a lot of levels. I'd change the pots for full size, and the hunbuckers, but youtube tutorials don't usually talk about English weather and zero nut frests. I'm not a profeeeional, nothing to lose. D.I.Y. for free, don't knock it. .
Sam, I love you're videos, but I finished up losing the will to live listening to you relating your 3 things re logic.
But you're thankfully still alive so it can't have been fatal :-) After 800+ videos pretty much covering the same basics I either talk about whatever it is I'm thinking about or there'll be silence.
I Just ordered this very guitar. So this video is invaluable. I don't live in your country and can't send it to you to fix, so will have to do modest alterations myself. This video has shown me things I can do myself, and things I should avoid doing, as I'm Not an experienced Guitar Tech like you are. So, I'll just have to be happy with the best I can muster. The fact the guitar is So cheap, that'll do I guess.
I have new pick-ups, you had a look inside, are the Pots cheap garbage, worth ordering new pots to replace too?
Hi Tyson Dog - the logic and details of everything I do is in my '5 Steps To Guitar Set Up Heaven' eBook in case you're interested...
facebook.com/relovedguitars/posts/pfbid02gtjngJciF8yNWhrPHhVWni8hpujJuBLNLapWUGwhpfnKaDsS85qEWHhjsMaBaQzil
I'm not convinced that there's a good reason to replace the pots; they're cheap yes but I don't think you'd be able to hear any difference after replacing them. You might be able to; I've never been able to :-)
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars Thanks for the Quick reply, wow, thanks.
That's great news, I have the pick-ups already, and I know how to replace them.
I did love to watch how you did your work. I've been watching other videos you put out. But, I also know you're an experienced tech, and I can't do what you can. Though I have picked up on some things I didn't know, and can do to make playing my new guitar that much more enjoyable, and that's the point, to Enjoy it.
I'm not on Facebook, but have friends that are, and I'll absolutely take a look at your page for more references.
Thanks again for the reply. I don't have a "Guitar Tech" where I live, plus I don't really have the budget. I know your videos aren't a "teaching guide" as you've explained, but you do show how there are some simple things we should all do to have a better guitar set up, to get a better playing experience. Thanks again.
A lot of work to do this.
the closest thing to an argument against a shim isnt even a good argument because it relies on a poor shim job. thats where too little material is used for too much of an angle and the little gap could potentially result in the neck warping up at the body joint. but perhaps by the time that even happens you can just buy a new neck. the beauty of a bolt on. or you could just shim it properly in the first place.
"...could potentially...." To be honest, when I see actual evidence of a 0.25mm brass shim (the most I ever use) deforming the heel because the bolts have caused it to bend to fit the tiny 'fresh air" gap behind the shim....well, then I'll be bothered. But I've not yet seen any evidence of that. There's always time.. but I'm afraid until I see actual proof that this happens I'll continue to be skeptical about it. Not saying it can't happen just that I've not seen evidence of it so far.
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars exactly. i've never actually seen it. it just makes sense from a scientific point of view that in the right conditions the wood could warp. but if it takes 100 years to even become noticeable who cares. and the fact i've never seen it suggests it'd probably take that long, if ever!
@@John-mq8qv we both know that wood can twist and warp if we just look at the wrong way :)
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars 🤣
Hi.I am a drummer and got this thing yesterday. Ha. But I am also physicist.
The thing with the shims, I wanted to state like it's electric and the motion of the strings is detected. But thinking a bit further I thought about an interaction of vibrations of body and neck so that maybe there is a slight movement of the pickups. That could result in a , in the pickup coordinates , a different movement of the strings above it.
But ... this could be detected easily if there is a difference.
I mean, if this interaction is different with a shim... there will be a difference between the detected waves. The question is, is it hearable.
Just a guess.
The vibrations of body and neck don't magically travel to the output jack and feed into tone in the amp. The only impact a neck joint has is the degree to which it 'wastes' energy in rattling around thereby robbing it from the string. This is why a solid block of something (especially resin for example) seems to sustain a note forever - because thanks to very solid bridge and saddle points and little or no wastage of energy in shaking bits of loose wood about most remains as string movement. I don't mean to be rude but your hypothesis doesn't sound like a physicist's... it doesn't really make sense to an outside, reasonably intelligent reader.
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars Awww, that was rude. 😂Maybe reasonably intelligent is not enough. I really don't want to claim, there is an effect. I don't acutally believe that, so, for the musicians world. I mean, there will be a difference, because you changed the system, but does it matter, is it detectable?
But I think, you didn't get my weird thoughts. So, here is the deal:
There are vibrations, through the wood, the pickups are fixed to the wood. So they are vibrating, as well, together with the body. And for the output it doesn't matter if the string is moving or the pickup. If we change the vibrations of body, by adding a shim or whatever parameter we change, the vibrations of the pickups change, relatively to strings which should lead to another signal. I mean, does the identical pickup build into different guitar bodies sound different, if the oscillating system stayes the same. Same strings, neck, bridge, nut, connection of neck to body etc.?
(10 min later..... ) I read, they do. Lighter woods -> warmer, heavier wood brighter. Each variable that changes the traveling of vibrations through the wood will effect the sound.
If you don't hear a difference, probably not.
It's the same like the guys using goldplated whatnot, expensive special cables for their speakers. There is an effect, and with high end measurement equipment one could proof it, but no human being can hear it.
@@eDrumsInANutshell I appreciate you going the extra mile to clarify what your point was. If understand you you're saying that it doesn't matter if the pickup magnet (flux field) moves from side to side or the string does; the effect of creating a current will be the same, is that right?
I think the amount the pickup (magnet) moves relative to the string is infinitesimal compared to the amount the string moves relative to the magnet. That this is so is evident from the fact that we can see the string moving but absolutely not the pickup (no matter how much it is vibrating in its pickup ring or scratchplate mount).
There is another assumption to be tested here and that implies that putting a shim between the wood at the end of the neck heel and the end of the pocket (and then tightening them back up fully) results somehow in the pickups being shaken more than if there was no shim.
For that to be credible I genuinely would want to a) hear an argument explaining how that would occur - i.e. what mechanism / effect is at play that means the shim would result in the pickup magnets moving more from side to side.... and b) I'd want to see evidence testing this hypothesis and showing it to be to all intents and purposes correct.
I didn't mean to be unkind, but my challenge is to be precise with your claims and to make claims that are based in reality. Like you, I know that whole sections of the guitar community are CERTAIN that shims somehow effect the 'tone' but it's a dogma; not a credible argument. I'm tired of people insisting these dogmatic beliefs are valid when they can't even be expressed in a way that confirms to scientific rigor, let alone backed up by experimental evidence that gives them weight.
There are some great videos out there debunking the tonewood concept along with many other dogmatic positions regarding guitars :-)
Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to help me understand what you meant; I genuinely had no idea from your first post.
Cheers!
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars I don't now the these effects, probably you are right and it's not the vibrating pickup but the interaction of strings with the body as resonator creating a certain, individual frequency spectrum of the strings, which are then interacting with the pickup. I am actually not into guitars and not into acoustics. I am doing radiation physics as medical physicist in a radiooncology department. Ha, I think I will keep doing that instead of driving you crazy with strange ideas. And I will grab a beer! Cheers!
What Grover tuners did you use?
Hi Stephen I think it was these standard Rotomatics
www.andertons.co.uk/grover/grover-original-rotomatic-3-a-side-tuners-in-nickel-grover102n
but IIRC the customer supplied them (?) so I just put them on. £129 RRP is a lot for a budget guitar like this and it doesn't need that brand / quality. A decent set of Wilkinson 'Grover-style' 19:1 gearing tuners in the same style would be about £35 and perform just as well. Keep in mind that tuners have nothing to do with guitars staying in tune - that's 50% the nut and 50% unreleased slack in the strings but the higher the quality / gearing / precision the smoother the tuning feel is for sure. My advice is don't spend money on tuners unless you're very sure you want to pay for that upgrade in smoothness / precision / aesthetic. Otherwise, spend £35 on tuners and put the other £90 towards that neck or bridge pickup you've always wanted...
Sand papers made from metal found in sand 😂😂😂
Yeah yeah yeah :D I'm from that generation where sandpaper was that yellow stuff with actual sand stuck to actual paper...Somehow it feels wrong to refer to 'wet 'n dry' as 'sandpaper'!
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars I bought some yellow sandpaper like 7 8 years ago and it was awful quality and considering I live quite close to emery island they had no excuse to be that bad. Maybe it was made in china.
Thanks!
Thanks Leonard - I've no idea even how to 'cash-in' the SuperThanks payments lol but it's much appreciated :)