#roughcut2022
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2022
- #roughcut2022
This is a little toolmaking project I made for the roughcut2022 hashtag on UA-cam.
I had some SCGT turning inserts flying around and decided to make a toolholder for them. As the inserts are square they are well suited for a chamferring lathe tool when mounted at 45°.
As I wanted the tool to be able to do both outside and inside chamfers, I designed it with two insert seats. The insert on the front side can do outside left and right chamfers as well as normal facing and turning. The insert on the backside is for inside chamfers. To use it, the tool has to be switched at 90° and mounted parallel to the lathe spindle axis. Due to the new quick change toolpost this is not a problem any longer and super quick to do.
The reason for this odd design ist, that the SCGT inserts have just a 7° relief angle. For internal bore chamfers this is not ideal as on smaller bores the side of the insert would collide with the workpiece instead of cutting. To prevent this, I made the back insert seat for internal chamfers 2mm higher than the front one. With this little trick I got enough clearance so that the insert cuts well. So when the front side of the tool is set on center height, the backside is automatically 2mm heigher to have enough clearance.
There are probably better designs which work with only one insert for everything but I went with this one and time will tell how practical it is.
As I had no proper 45° chamferring tool until now the new one is already extremely useful.
Plans for this tool are available on my Patreon-side:
www.patreon.com/wecandothatbetter
I hope you like my work.
If you have any questions or suggestions, just comment on the video. I try to read and reply soon.
If you like what I'm doing, consider to subscribe to the channel to see more of this content. I'm making improvements and modifications to my Mini Lathe as well as some toolmaking and other machining.
Thank you for watching! - Наука та технологія
Wouldn't have expect that mill to do such a good job in tool steel, even if it did cost you 3 cutters. Great idea though, I might need to borrow that idea, love the double sided insert idea. Cheers
Hi and thanks for your kind comment! The proxxon mill can do it but I think the cutters break because of instability of the machine causing vibrations and chattering. Perhaps I can improve the machine a little bit... And off course, feel free to copy the design ;)
Worked out really nicely. For anyone wondering why you would go to the trouble of making insert tool holders rather than buy them the answer is simple...it is enjoyable to make some of your own tooling and you learn a lot along the journey.
Thank you very much for your kind comment!
Do they even sell insert tool holders that do what this tool holder does?
Use HSS on that mill with steel, it is not rigid enough for carbide.
You can prolly get away with carbide roughing mills on some steels though.
Give both a try, you will be happy you did, especially the roughing mills. I resisted using them for a long time to my detriment. They require much less power and prefer lower RPM's. They still need high contact pressure, but the nature of the tools puts less strain on the machine so helps with your rigidly issue. Cobalt tooling is really your best bet for steels though.
Satisfaction can't be bought, but rather by creation ! nice tool!
Thank you! :)
Very nice build. That works really well.
Home made tools are so much more fun to use. Especially when they preform well.
Thank you very much! :)
I'm a little surprised you only broke one of those D bits, they are intended for fine engraving on the tip rather than any significant material removal on the sides. Cutting 5-6mm off the tip with a cut off wheel would have made it quite a bit stronger for this kind of job.
haha :D yes, these D bits are not made for such "heavy" cuts. I just had no other idea of bringing the angles to the sides. Luckily I bought 3 of these cutters, two are still left:)
@@WeCanDoThatBetter I made a couple of insert type tool holders a couple of months ago and how I machined the side/flank clearance was by setting the head angle of the mill over and positioning the tool in a swivel vise. That way I could use a square end mill to cut the flank angles without fear of breaking one.
@@WeCanDoThatBetter what did you take 1thou cuts?
@@WeCanDoThatBetter There is not a problem with D-cutter. Your rigidity of the milling machine is VERY low. Until you will not make a scraping job with adding of concrete in your Z column (or replace it to solid column) - all mils will be damaged. Also - it will be impossible to get precision surfaces of milled milled parts. It will be a great video with your milling upgrade. BTW do not forget about backlash of feed.
👍👍👍👍
Great job, thank you brother. You are so talented
Beautiful work!
Great little project.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for your comment!
Good work as usual. We shared this video on our homemade tools forum this week 😎
Thank you very much for sharing my work! That's great!
Great job. Thanks.
Congratulations to the man who knows how to hold a file on a lathe.
Hey - thanks so much for joining in with #roughcut2022! Now for me to watch the video 😁
That came out beautifully - really nice work
Thank you very much! Really cool idea with the hashtag game :)
@@WeCanDoThatBetter Emma's idea not mine, but I like the idea too - and like seeing new channels and videos. I had not come across your channel before. Nice clean well edited videos. Subscribed!👍
appreciate you treating yourself to a nice little brass bar test after machining all that tool steel
;) That was the only part lying around with an inside bore already in it.
Well done !! Turned out great !!
Thanks!
Great project it's goin to be a useful thing for sure. Now I want one too 😃😃
Thanks!
Hello,
An excellent idea and well made, an enjoyable video, thank you.
Take care.
Paul,,
Thank you very much for your kind comment! I really do appreciate that! Take care as well.
Love the way you set up for 45°
Yes, that was easy :)
Thanks for making the video...
Thank you very much for your comment!
Very good!
Nice video shot, thank you for sharing, keep it up :)
Thanks for your kind feedback! I really do appreciate that!
Nice work and presentation.
I also have one made with a smaller diameter holder to expose three tips of insert to do OD ID chamfering. The relief angle could be more aggressive to cope with a smaller ID. This way I can integrate only one chamfer insert to the opposite end of existing tool body to a double end cutting tool.
Thanks for your comment and feedback! Your solution sounds interesting. Do you have pictures of it?
well thats a very nice job. new to your channel. subscribed!
Hi and welcome. Thanks for subscribing and your comment! I really do appreciate that!
I use those inserts there great for aluminum and brass, great video, keep'um coming..
They are even used by us woodturners.
Yes, they are polished and very sharp. Great for aluminium and non ferrous metals.
Now class pay attention here. The student that identifies the result of "Climb Cutting" gets an A.😅
Wakodahatchee Chris
;)
That was a fun project!
Thank you :)
I have one just like this, that was ground from a 5/8 HSS toolbit. Wish it could get inside the smaller bores better though.
Cool idea 💡💡 and neat job 👍
Thanks for your comment and compliment! :)
When I saw all of the broken end mills I kept thinking, I wonder if you and I could be related?
Thanks for sharing! 🙂
Nicely made tool, I may have to borrow that idea, thanks for sharing 👍
By the way, I use those inserts a lot, the high rake angle and geometry is designed for cutting aluminium, though I also use them for brass to good effect.
The tip wall is really thin though, which is why they break easily when cutting steels.
Thanks for your comment! Sometimes I use these inserts for steel but they wear and brake really fast, so not ideal.
Thanks for sharing 👍
Thanks for your comment!
Very nice, i need to make one
Schöne Arbeit. Um den Fräserbruch zu minimieren, musst du für das entfernen der späne während des Fräsvorgangs sorgen. Entweder absaugen oder spülen/abblasen. 80-90% aller Brüche sind auf das re-cutting zurückzuführen, wenn klumpen sich bilden und erfasst werden. Das Stabilitätsproblem spielt aber auch eine Rolle, wie Hans ganz richtig geschrieben hat. Ich persönlich habe mit Absaugung gute Erfahrungen gemacht.👍
Hi und danke für deinen ausführlichen Kommentar. Das stimmt, irgendeine Art, den Staubsauger anzuschließen muss ich mir noch schaffen. Gerade mit dem Schlagzahn fliegen die Späne sonst auch immer durch den ganzen Raum. Und im Fall des Videos wäre es bestimmt gut gewesen, öfter die Späne zu entfernen, wie du sagst. Ich merks mir hoffentlich :)
@@WeCanDoThatBetter Wenn der Stahl magnetisch ist, nehme ich manchmal einen Stabmagnet den ich dafür gemacht habe. 15mm lang, 3mm dick. Geht auch gut.
Nicely done. Always good to be able to use up spare inserts laying about and making a tool for the job is a great idea. I would say a bit of air on those small end mills to keep the chips clear may have lowered the dead body count for you.
Hi and thanks! Air or the vacuum cleaner probably may have made it a bit easier for the cutter, yes. And the first one, I did climb milling and right on the edge of the part, when the cutter isn't in even contact anymore, it broke.
@@WeCanDoThatBetter and also you material is clearly quite heavily magnetised, I think I'd have had a go at de-magnetising the part and just maybe the chips would have flown off of the part rather than sticking to it and bunging up the cutter with swarf that's already been cut
@@samrodian919 Yes, thats something I noticed too. I think it comes from the milling motor. Maybe it magnetices the chips. On its housing there are hanging magneticed chips as well.
Nice. Stefan made a version with CCGT at a 5 degree offset than can be used for external and light internal chamfers / deburring but only right handed. This one is more versatile, well done. Some tears were shed for those endmills. Feeds, speeds and runout / rigidity play a huge factor - at least those smaller endmills are cheaper, I chipped a 10mm carbide one yesterday 😭
Thanks for your comment! I feel you, loosing the carbide endmill ;)
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Nice job been going to make one for a while never got around to just been using high speed steel which isn't as good
You should used a jack s rew under the end when you was milling the seat to take out the chatter you wouldn't chip up all your carbide endmills.
Awesome video !
Thanks!
Hi. I think your endmill braking is caused by climb milling which need very rigid machine. At 7:07 I've noticed Axis jump. That's a Leadscrew backlash. Next time try conventional milling it may help. Thank you for good educational video. Great tool.
Thank you very much for your kind comment and feedback! I think you are right. I haven't watched the direction I was milling. Especially on the edges the tiny cutters tend to break when climb milling. Noticed to myself for next time;)
You couldn't really do that much better. 😁👌
;) Thanks!
Very Nice great job.
Thanks!
Excellent!!!
Thanks!
“Pretty is, as Pretty does.” It must be pretty.
Very nice!
Thank you! :)
Perfect 👍👍👍
Thanks!
Perfeito ! Parabéns 👏
Muito obrigado!
:D the Donkey at the beginning is funny
Thanks ;)
Its a lovely tool but honestly that is a lot of work. I have a single ended one and for the few times I need to rotate it I honestly dont think I need to put all this effort into this tool, very nice job though
Thanks for your comment. Yes, looking back it is really a little bit overkill and much to much effort for a little tool. Could have bought a toolholder for the inserts as well. But as long as it does it's job as good as intended I will be ok with it:)
Nice!
Thanks! :)
Dobra robota.
Good job with a nice finish on the work piece ! But i'm wondering why these end mills keep breaking ? My theorie is that the cutting speed ( rpm of the spindle) is too low for such a small end mills comparing to the feed rate (too high in this case) thus producing an important chipload that causes the endmill to break, what do you think ?
They break because they are extremely thin, and carbide is brittle. A 2mm endmill is only slightly thicker than a matchstick or toothpick.
@@johncoops6897 No doubt about that, they are thin ! but nonetheless something must be off in terms of parameters, i mean if 2-3mm endmills would break every 1 or 2 minutes into every cut no one would ever use them i guess, it wouldn't be very efficient !
@@sayebsalah7742 - Yeah, but remember that an end mill is designed to plunge, not to cut sideways. Using one to mill the side of a surface puts enormous load on the cutter.
In CNC work, they use larger tools to hog off the majority of material, and then take very light cuts with the smaller ones.
He said in another comment that there is some runout in the spindle, plus the particular machine is not very rigid. So I would say that it is chattering and that vibration is snapping the very thin carbide shanks.
As an aside, I buy lots of carbide drills for circuit boards. They have a 1/8" shank that fits a dremel but are only 0.9 or 0.7 or 0.5mm diameter. They are designed for exceptionally fast yet accurate downward drilling, at speeds faster than a human eye can detect. Even with the most steady hand, it is almost impossible not to snap them when using them in a handheld tool.
The end mills broke for one reason, and one reason only:
The mill lacks rigidity.
Carbide is a very poor choice on these little mills. Carbide requires a ton of tool pressure, and even with small endmills, these toy mills are not rigid enough. HSS is a much better choice, especially in steel because it requires much less tool pressure.
Excelente 😎
Thanks! :)
good
確實省下不少的成本👍！
I have a small mill and cutting up hill always destroys my end mills faster, pays to cut into the material as a habit especially on a smaller machine 👌
Yes, I should have done that. I hopefully remind next time :)
Great project. Your quick change tool is Aa size?
Hi and thanks! Yes, it is Aa size multifix.
add some relief on the side of the shank then you can chamfer internal and external without moving the tool holder/tool post
A single ended one used in the second position will make internal and external chamfers.
Yes, as said in the video description, there might be better designs with only one insert.
full of intelligence，telent guy！
Thanks!
Hahaha... I'm gonna do that to my dad's caliper as a prank 😂😂
;)
Neat job, well done! I like the result, shame about the cutter carnage to get there ;-)
Thank you very much for your comment! Yes, I lost a bit of material on the way...
@@WeCanDoThatBetter - mere collateral, excellent outcome overall!
Would it have helped to use fluid or cutting oil? Usually heat is what causes the metal to break more easily.
Thanks for your comment. Cutting oil might have helped. But I think it was mainly a combination of a not so rigid machine and vibrations.
@@WeCanDoThatBetter & climb milling...
@@MidEngineering Yes, that too...
Could you please kindly tell me what tool is cutting at 0:51?
Perfect work, but for myself i would rather grind a HSS Toolbit^^
Thanks! That's legit ;)
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he hates those endmills!!!!
They seem to hate me ;)
Would someone please explain why he made one end (rear/inside) 2mm higher?
If for clearance, is lifting the tool better than just grinding some relief on the underside of the holder?
I wrote it in the description: it is to have clearance for the insert as the inserts only have 7° clearance angle which is a little bit too less for smaller bores. With the 2mm higher end you don't have to lift the tool and fiddle around with height adjustment, just flip the toolholder 90° and start.
@@WeCanDoThatBetter - why not just grind 2mm off the underside of the tool
what is the brand of your lathe ?
It is from Artec, I think a German reseller. I'm not sure it is still available now.
if there is a will, there is a way! I think you over estimated the capabilities of your machine, it's not the cotters fault.
Yes probably to much vibrations and chattering which causes the cutters to break...
Good job but you must replace the proxxon “mill” No rigidity = broken cutters.
Thanks for your comment. I'm not sure if I can improve the milling machine.
@@WeCanDoThatBetter You always can build one …
ua-cam.com/video/Mv1FvopIi2Q/v-deo.html
Deine Fräsee hast du beim Gleichlauffräsen gekillt. War dir das nicht bewusst?
Ja, du hast recht. Zumindest die ersten beiden. Der Gravierstichel lief im Gegenlauf, war aber vermutlich überlastet in Stahl mit dem hohen Eingriff.
⭐🙂👍
Well done, good job, too bad you spent more money on cutters than understanding two at 45 degrees
Die Stichel sind zu spitz geschliffen und somit instabil, der abgebrochene Stich wäre genau gut gewesen, lediglich die Bruchstelle mit etwas Freiwinkel begradigen. Dass die anderen Fräser bei Dir gebrochen sind, liegt am Gleichlauffräsen. Mit so instabilen Maschinen ist Gleichlauffräsen schlicht unmöglich, die Fräserschneide wird dabei immer Schaden nehmen, auch bei größeren, stabileren Fräsern. Wenn eine Maschine mit spielfreien Kugelrollspindeln ausgestattet ist, kann man auch mit Hobbymaschinen einigermaßen ( im Zehntelbereich) Gleichlauf fräsen, aber die sollten dann schon stabile Gussmaschinen in der mind. 100 kg Klasse sein.
Hi, danke für den Kommentar. Stimmt eigentlich, mit dem abgebrochenen Stichel hätte ich womöglich noch weiterarbeiten können. Muss ich mir mal anschauen, vllt ist er fürs nächste Mal noch zu gebrauchen :) Gleichlauffräsen ergibt halt meistens die schöneren Oberflächen und manchmal funktioniert es auch. Allerdings mit so dünnen Fräsern und dann noch zu aggressiv zugestellt ist das nix, das stimmt.
Beautifuly made, however the time and material invested, don't compensate for the end result. Just Buy a kit of holders or one by one.i think even the cheap chinesium holders are heat treated, so they are rigid enough.
After all the work and the broken tool would have been cheaper to order one.
But boring putting this on video ;)
Well, you get the award for making that tool in 10x the number of steps you needed to and then using it off center on the part and calling it good. Oh, remembering when I learned just enough to be dangerous. Oh wait, that never stops... lol... Good video, keep learning and doing and ignore jabs like mine... :)
What a great concept, but you picked the wrong blade chip.You should choose a flat blade, otherwise the tool holder must be beveled.
In addition, this tool is usually used for OD heavy cutting, so your final demo doesn't really show its true character.
Also, homemade tool holders often have precision issues, which can prevent you from locking the screws to the correct tightness, or there will be gaps that can cause displacement and cause the blade to break.
By the way, if your ruler has a drop scratch,just replace it with a new one instead of decorating it.
When the screw hole which holds the insert is a little bit more to the back side of the insert seat, the insert gets pulled right in and hold securely in the seat.
I am very clear about this.What I want to express is that the throwaway turning tool is a precision machine,Although its composition is simple. its precision requirements are still very high.
When I was still in vocational school, we all used the school's tool holders. Some of them just had a slight deformation of the screw after hitting the chuck, but the insert could not be locked tightly or it would be cracked.
How do you know if your precision is controlled within 0.02 or 0.01mm? If it is not so precise, the insert will slide unexpectedly during work and there is a chance cause that the corner collapse.
@@kyvih9217 I don't believe a trip to the moon was in the mission brief. Based on this guys previous successful insert tooling builds he has the precision side of things squared away ok.
Why not just buy two cheap 45 degree insert holders and join them back to back to required length, all that work and the cost of broken tools surely would be more than buying them. Overall good learning exercise i suppose.
That would be the easy way and a very short video I guess ;) The #roughcut2022 idea brought me to this tool. So I just wanted to try out that idea. And I'm really suspicious about the cheep insert holders. And medium quality ones cost quite a bit.
I see magnetized tooling and workpieces holding onto swarf and causing re-cutting. Try building one of the de-magnetizer devices using the neodymium magnets. Inexpensive, fun build, and incredibly effective. I adapted mine from the video below:
ua-cam.com/video/bKNigMT0qq4/v-deo.html
Yes, that's a real problem with the proxxon machine. Everything gets magnetized. Thanks for the hint!
Se carga más de una fresa ya está perdiendo dinero era más barato comprar el porta que vale 15€ jjjjj
Я проще делал
God that rattling in your mill...it's so baaaad... :(
Yes, perhaps it's possible to improve that some day. But I'm really happy to have this machine. Otherwise this work would be impossible.
Some people must have more money than brains or don't know how to sharpen or make lathe tools judging by the " it must be carbide for everything " craze.
Then I must have very little brain...
Dumb question: How do the two ends differ?
The back side is 2mm higher for clearance for inner chamfers. I explained in the description.
@@WeCanDoThatBetter But why?
если делать фаски в латуни, то можно без термообработки;)))
Hardening the tool would be better, yes. Just have no tools for.