Some lore on why Bluewater and Coastal are separate trees: They used to be in the same tree with a very weird research path, the aim was to let you quickly get to the type of ship you wanted to play and grind out those. The problem was Gaijin included their minimum researched vehicles required to unlock the next rank mechanic and set that number to the same number of vehicles in that rank. Making the grind extremely long. Also, gaijin was only planning to have naval be coastal ships but the players kept asking for larger and larger ships since no one really wanted to play random torpedo boats. But when they did add the large destroyers and cruisers the players started complaining that they had to play the small torpedo ships when they wanted to play destroyers and up. So eventually gaijin split the trees to satisfy these players, and it was a good move because the RP cost on ships at the time was incredibly outrageous (kinda looked like the heli grind does right now). Would it make sense if a naval tree was structured more like the ground and air trees? Yes, it would. Will gaijin bother changing it again? Probably not.
Ya that wrecked a lot of people, and the jumbling of the research tree so that you had to go back and research ships they stuck behind those you'd already got. My Coastal tree was a mess.@@Talos827
Just made a comment on that but you put it much better. New players might find it annoying to havd separate trees but us that were on the first days of naval know how bad the single tree was lol.
I ussually wait for the battleships to come around a corner and then rushing them while theire under 500 meters away and just releasing my Torpedos in theire face...... took a dark turn
He’s judging them off the same way everyone plays the pt boats at first. Pt boat is the snake in the grass. Hidden from sight until the time is right. I got 45k sl for killing a dd with a reserve pt boat lol
@@galilelollel9658me in my BB knowing that PT boats are hiding in those islands , so anyway( AA guns and secondary guns) saturate fire on that direction + torpedo beating your torps very fun to play is like playing dodgeball with a ship XD
One tappng you with my big naval ships before dodging said Torps is also the best feeling in War Thunder. When you come around that corner, i know you're there. And i got my cannon and ready to fire the instant i see your toy boat.
Naval player here, yes, the learning curve is a lot steeper than with the other modes. Also, realistic aiming is difficult at first, but once you get the hang of it, you have far more control over where you land your shots. I personally dislike naval matchmaking games, so i usually play on the weekends to get naval EC which is extremely fun. You play 16 on 16 in massive maps, allowing you to maneuver and sail for extreme distances
Still, battles are decided by coastal ships even in the highest tier. Sometimes a side does not have a single coastal ship, so one fast PT boat can capture 2 zones which are far from the bluewater ships, and win the battle alone.
Yep, and because 75% of the Ship community never even move to re-capture the game is over. Most just sit in the back with heavy cruisers and battleships farming SLs. Hard to tell what is a bot ship and a player, usually the one moving is a bot.
As an italian naval player, It sucks how bad the first 2 eras of costal are, it's basically impossibile to grind... I just use the fast and swift deepblue italian options like the Montecuccoli or Attilio Regolo as a costal sub.
@@Fiasco3doesn't help that your options are a 10minute cruise across the map to cap or waste 10s of thousands of SL just to J out. It's a rough system.
It's actually knowing a ships uniqueness that helps you. Size of gun, reload speed.. anti-aircraft armament.. do I have mines, what is my torpedo range and arc. Depending on the year they were employed and refits, even ships of the same type are different. What is my armor like, does the ship close range brawl or is it better sniping. There's even consideration on what CAS you run.. do you go for a big high-flying bomber, torpedo plane, dive bomber or heavy cannon/rocket strafer, plus pontoon hydro-planes for stealing cap points.
@@robertharris6092 reward rates are bad in naval lol, due to the length of time battles take, lack of possible rp that can be gained in a battle (damage is especially a problem) and just overall bad rp requirements and multipliers
I was playing when naval released, I have a few comments on the points made in this video: -It is definitely possible to learn the differences between different naval ships, especially since different nations have different weapon designs. A British DD gun is much different than an American DD gun. -Realistic does have a steeper learning curve, yes, but I would say it's something you can get used to. Partially an acquired taste type situation. -Coastal and Bluewater got split so people didn't have to spend 100 hours farming pt boats to get the reserve DDs (american coastal grind pain) Overall, I still think your opinions are valid since I know I'm just a bit weird and have a hyperfixation on warships. Sorry if I sound like a "that guy".
Ive been playing war thunder since before naval. The pt boats used to be in the main tree however it was weird. The boats started on the left with the cheapest and the right was the most expensive ships. Like you get 1.0 pt gun boat and below is a 2.3 torpedo boat and has a submarine hunter next to it while the pt gun boat has an anti aircraft barge
The trees used to be merged but after some evaluation (and rightly so) Gaijin finds that combining them just makes the entire naval aspect a slog and not to mention, pretty boring since it takes a while until you can get to the most basic of pre-war destroyers. And thinking about it, splitting them makes sense since development of blue water ships is pretty different compared to brown water ships. A destroyer can't operate as well in an environment where the PBR excel in thanks to the low clearance and shallow waters. Same with how a PBR can't go to the sea that well since the sea will just tear it to shreds.
Except there os literally no difference between high tier coastal and low tier bluewater. Both have destroyers, both have large torpedo boats. There are lots of interesting WW2 ships that currently don't really fit into war thunder because of this split as they kinda fall between coastal and bluewater but fit into neither. Especially stuff like larger torpedo boats, frigates, and smaller destroyers
3:00 Trust me i say this, Naval was a hell hole before the separation of costal and blue water, the only way people were able to play cruiser and Destroyers were after 2 years of grinding or just buying the packs.
Trust me, a world of people would be even more pissed off if they had to grind through coastal ships to get to blue water vessels. Keep them apart.. Forever.
Nononononono. Gaijin already separated the coastal and bluewater trees, I remember having to grind through so many shitty American and British pt boats just to get to a destroyer that wasn't very good. Since they split the trees I have actually convinced my friends to try it and since they were starting in destroyers that are big and powerful compared to the PT boats.
Appreciate the comment, but maybe listen to what I say before disagreeing? I specifically addressed this problem by saying the combined tree should still allow you to start at bluewater. Essentially, having a reserve tier at the beginning of coastal, and another farther town the tech tree at bluewater. That way you can play bluewater and still have your RP go towards researching coastal craft if you want.
I'm glad to see someone actually putting in the effort, instead of just saying "naval sucks". That being said, in my experience a lot of the frustration about coastal vessels comes from wanting to play them together with bluewater ships. I mainly play coastal, because I love the faster paced gameplay of it. Once you get to bluewater ship BR, you can easily take on the early DDs, just because you've gotten yourself a feel for your tiny boat and what it can and can't do. Your point about arcade being more fun in naval is true, imo, especially since it allows you to get a torpedo lead indicator. While learning to aim in air RB is a thing of seconds, it`s far more frustrating to learn to aim with torpedoes. You have either a long reload, or no reload at all in RB.
@@Fiasco3Definitely, just waiting a few seconds for a DD to tunnel vision on one of my teammates has gotten me so many torpedo kills. And a cruiser sitting behind an island in the back may put out damage, but I've yet to see one reach a cap point in time
But RB also has torp lead indicators. What are you talking about? RB is infinitely better for smaller boats, as they are not as easy to spot without markers.
Thank you for genuinely giving it a try. I love naval and there is nothing more annoying then people who know nothing about naval calling it a trash game mode. I can accept criticism when it comes from a place of genuine understanding
Back when naval was new before they changed aiming there was no up and down aiming at all there was only side to side and scroll wheel for distance. I much proffered that to the current aim as I accidentally aim up and down sometimes with my mouse which then changes the range my shots land at. Before with the aiming I just did lead and then figured out enemies distance and could easliy ammo rack an enemy boat.
The shot aiming is why I love naval. When you get rekt, it’s usually because the guy is actually really good. Vs ground battles where you die to a guy shooting thru a gap in a box that you can’t see from 2km away
You need to feel the sensation of takedown a big battleship with a small G-5 or other torpedo boat. Small boats are challenging to master but become a dangerous opponent with good players.
There are a few videos on reconfiguring your controls for Naval overall, and doing it makes a HUGE difference. You should always be using stuff like the ranging shot which makes aiming EXTREMELY easy as you can volley for various ranges. I would recommend you look into it and try again, again.
Ships are definitely interesting and unique there just confirms within the shape of a boat unlike a plane or tank ships can’t really vary from being a boat at the end of the day if you really get into it different countries have vastly different ships and every battleship is mostly unique
Nice Video overall, but I have some stuff to add. You can Absolutely hit specific components in naval and 1 shot things... Just takes practice with aiming. After grinding for almost a year I can pretty much just knock off the enemy captain's cigar off his mouth from over 10 kms away while both ships are actively maneuvering lol. I will however, suggest learning to aim with realistic. I actually feel NRB better coz I can decide to aim a bit higher or lower on the deck or waterline for the gun knockouts or the juicy ammo racks. I love playing DDs coz its the best mix of maneuverability and knife-fighting; as well as rapid fire to readjust aim and providing supporting fire from range. Coastal Vessels usually decide the fate of the match (other than float planes). I usually spawn in a fast coastal boat, take a cap, launch torps if i have them and then leave vehicle and rejoin in a bigger ship. Usually both sides' players are too busy fighting other big ships and it comes down to a stalemate. Having that 1 cap usually wins me quite a few games. I am not writing this as a hate comment or a showoff even if it might come off that way. I love naval warfare in general and I think Warthunder naval really captures naval warfare pretty well. Naval is supposed to be boring coz its all about what you did 5 minutes ago and not what you are doing now lol. I like the slower pace. That said, Great video. Keep it up! o7
What's funny, is that guy who barely understands game mode is explaining it to people who heve played it for years. Game mode is flawed but I can only hope that devs won't make it similar to ground battles
Coastal main here: The reason you got bored of naval combat is because you picked the ships with the slowest gameplay loop. Battleships are painfully slow and they are the reason I refuse to touch any ship above 5.0 If you want to have fun in naval, you really have to find hidden gems. The Pr.35 (SKR-7) is one of them. But you could pick the SKR-1, the Köln-class germain frigattes, the italian Saetta (nigh useless against anything bigger than a fishing boat but damn swatting WW2 props out of the sky with AShMs is the most fun you can have in the game), USS Moffet, USS Atlanta... The main problem with naval is the awful BR compression and the technology of the ships. Most of thr fun ships I listed are cold war era. Most of the ships you played, the ones slow as a snail with parkinson's, are pre- to early WW2 battleships/heavy cruisers. Slow as hell with even slower guns, but Gaijin keeps adding them because morons keep buying them, desparately hugging their body pillows, begging for the Texas and Yamato to be finally added so they can [REDACTED] all over their monitors. Gaijin refuses to add modern ships with very few exceptions, almost all of them in the coastal tree.. and most if not all of them are fun, as long as they are fighting similar ships. PT boats VS. Destroyers isn't fun because 1. PT boats weren't made to kill Destroyers, and 2. Destroyers were *specifically engineered to kill PT boats*
There are people who find battleships to be pretty fun. You really shouldn't deride them as 'morons' just because you don't like larger ships. Though it is true that naval's issues are the most apparent when you play the larger ships. And of course beginners should not be starting out with battleships. Destroyers are the best way to learn naval.
@@kkang2828 I'm not calling battleship players morons, I'm caling people who buy premium battleships without any researchj, who then complain that they are boring morons
@@jackgamer6307I played through the British tech tree from the start first. I played naval for 20 hours before even touching a battleship. Watch the video fool.
As the resident WT naval CC. I appreciate the effort put into your review. Lead is decided by speed. You can use the pippers on the aim sight to determine the aim lead. 1 marker =10km/h Coastal is the best tree to play for adrenaline filled fun. It just requires skill and patience. I choose the dinky boat with torpedoes, CIWS and depth charges. Some of your comments regarding Playstyle and ship variety are very Shallow. You just dont seem to have the knowledge of what your looking at. That comes from experience If you would like to revisit or learn some strategy hit me up
I think whether ships are as cool as planes and tanks depends on person/community a lot. It just, that there are probably more tank nerds around, than ship nerds. And like you said with train fans. I personally can't tell difference between tanks except of very famous ones, like Tiger or Sherman. But I can tell you all possible ship classes from memory and classify nation, type and maybe even "tech tree" of 1900-1950 era vessel based on one photo. Yes, they look different.
Naval is chill, until you get a torpedo warning or you see a plane coming straight for your ass. Coastal is fun, and mostly used for capturing points or fighting in enclosed area of the maps against other coastal
Ships are not as sexy as tanks and planes? I BEG TO DIFFER, GOOD SIR!!! No ship has perfect and elegant symmetry from bow to stern more than the Prinz Eugen and the Bismarck and their respective classes for that matter!
played like 3 games in arcade to get the hang of things, switched to realistic and yeah, was confused with aiming but in the span of a single match I got the hang of it, I’m enjoying naval so far
I'm one of those people that is into trains (7:56), and I can identify many of the locomotives in my area within a few seconds. I occasionally play Train Sim. I can identify most of the ships in War Thunder Naval, at least their class, if not the individual unit without screen help. I tried WoW and found the arcade to be "cheesy". I want as realistic as possible. My passion is frigates and destroyers. I may have to try both tech trees because my interests seem to be on both sides of the internal border. A Porter class ship (USS Moffet) or a Gearing class ship (USS Knox) would be nice. The Soviet Project 56 (Kotlin class) destroyer looks good with two twin 13cm SM-2 mounts, and the RBU6000 ASW rockets. The quad 45mm are underwhelming, do to overheating problem in the real world, and did not appear on any future ships in the Soviet navy. If and when I got comfortable with a Moffet, then I would consider buying a Knox.
I'll have to disagree with the 'all ships look the same'. At some point you'll realise that the destroyers have major differences. The US has the Sommers class with a ridiculous reload speed that just pummels you with HE, the Japanese have the best torpedoes, the Germans and Russians have good main armament, the British are the easiest to kill if you aim for the deck cause thats where the ammo is stored, a featured removed in the last destroyers of the tree. Later in the cruiser part, and this is where I hate the current meta, you'll realise that US has the best cruisers, as all they do is sit at spawn and use their ridiculous reload speed to just spam HE and melt your crew to death as you try and leave spawn. Any other feature the rest of the nations have is completely negated by US spamming ability. The Russians have the kronshdat, a ship that was never completed that just absolutely tanks anything you throw at it. Only in battleships do you find an equalizer, where theyre all pretty much the same, slow, thick with punchy guns
Yeah, this guy just sounds like a normie. If you haven't been interested in warships they will all look the same, just like a non tank guy won't be able to tell apart a Panther from a t34.
Naval imo is the best game mode in WT. I started playing WT before boats were added bc i always found the fast paced pixel peeking tanks or turn fighting bf109s and spitfires fun in tiny doses. I consistently play naval now, i enjoy actually having the time to think about my strategies and stay alive for a while and make hits even if i dont get kills or its just assists. If youre tired of getting mad at WT naval is the way to go. Destroyers are the best class
If naval was more refined I would play it more because I want to play a naval game, but WT is the only one I know of with the mechanics I want. Another thing that'd be great would be if they brought back a submarine mode because I played the demo years ago and despite not knowing how to play it well at all, it was really fun
Coastal ships are separate because imagine how much it would suck to go into your first naval battle in a PT boat and get one tapped by a destroyer. That can still happen, but at least you can grind straight into destroyers and heavier ships rather than having to grind through a bunch of PT boats and frigates first.
Personally I believe that Gajin should keep the Naval trees separate and allow you to grind coastal vessels. With blue water vehicles. Like how you can grind Coppers with tanks. Merging them together would make the grind worse. Also like you said most people play blue water. So that would be redundant and contradictory.
I love playing coastal but it is something you have to get into it's just hilarious to me when this tiny baby launches 27 torpedoes at a battleship that can do literally nothing but cry in their sleep
I love customisation and drawing attention to myself with the vehicles I use. That's why I'm such an avid collector of event vehicles. It also happens to be the reason why I entirely agree with you on this point! 5:49 . The event and rare versions of ships in WT rarely have any immediately noticeable and distinguishing features, and they don't draw double-takes from other players. One of my favourite things is when I'm in ground or air battles and I get comments in chat like "What the heck is that?", or when I can see very clearly multiple friendly tanks turning their turrets to look at me (yes, I'm an attention w**re XD ). In naval, the biggest change is generally just some armament switchups that only you will really notice.
Bruh...I just wanted to tell you coastal is VERY important. These ships cap....I have been in matches that were won only by coastal ships constantly capping shallow points. I used to play WoW's , but after the infamous CV rework and being shot-gunned by subs, over and over I went to WT Naval. You know what? "War...Thunder...it's fantastic!"
Yeah, fully agree. Naval in its current state is extreme well Balanced and pure fun. Biggest issue for me are the players without any idea, just Camping somewhere is Not Naval warfare and its Not rewarding.
@@andreasliebisch3881 well-balanced? you sure we're playin' the same game? because all my memories of naval involved me trying to rush the shallow-water point in my moffett so I wouldn't get torn to shreds by all the bingchilling bots sitting in spawn w/ their helenas and prinz eugens.
To answer your question about the tech trees: They used to share just one tree. But they found that most players trying their hand at naval were interested primarily in the larger bluewater ships, which were locked behind multiple tiers of grinding. It wasn't quite the same as air or ground trees, because the lower tiers were full of coastal vessels which play dramatically differently to the bluewaters. It was like being forced to play call of duty for 100 hours to reach CS: Go. As a result, the developers split the trees so that people could play how they wanted.
As someone who’s only played air for the last 6 years and have achieved top tier air. Naval is addicting. There is nothing that hits dopamine better than landing a 45degree broadside with some explosive round from a high angle at 12km.
Have unlocked the entire Kriegsmarine.. Was worth getting the ultimate coastal boats to compliment your bluewater fleet. My personal fav lineup is Admiral Hipper for constant barrage of guns.. Jaguar & PR 206 for coastal speed and quad torp runs.. The Admiral Graf Spee and Scharnhorst to fill out Bluewater.. along with these aircraft, the FW 190 (premium) & HE 111 H6 with torp loadouts. I prefer Naval to Tonks & Planes.. but there's not a large enough playerbase. Really hope Subs are incorporated into the lineup soon. Were soooo much fun!
He makes a lot of great points concerning War Thunder Naval itself, but I think stating things like "ships aren't as iconic as tanks" and such is a little biased. Yes, it is sort of like those who like trains so much, why is Engine A any different to Engine B? But, boats are still iconic. Show most history fans an image of Hood, Bismarck or Yamato, chances are they'll know what they are. Same story goes with other famous ships like Titanic and to a lesser extent Enterprise. As a massive naval history fan I think that saying something like that is a little bit of bad faith, but that was the only qualm I had. WT naval is very, very mid.
I see where you are coming from. Yeah it is biased, but that's because it's just my opinion :) I'm not saying they are objectively not as iconic as tanks. I just think they aren't and I feel like most people would probably agree. I mean, the average person cannot tell the difference between a tank and an IFV... which imo is way easier than telling ships apart. Hope that clears it up, I think a lot of people misunderstood that comment. Thank you for watching.
Well… this comment section has enough proof that most people actually don’t agree with you. As someone who likes ground vehicles, planes, *and* ships all in the same manner, IMO telling a destroyer apart from a battleship or telling a fighter apart from a bomber is actually somewhat easier than telling a tank apart from an IFV, in general. There’s the sheer size difference for the ships, and most fighters look very different from most bombers(as well as reasonable size difference), whereas both tanks and IFVs have a flat square-ish hull and two sets of tracks and a single turret with a single gun. They look quite the same for the uninformed, and the size difference isn’t *that* noticeable at a glance. But that’s just my own opinion. I respect yours as well.
Naval is a great change of pace from the rest of the game! If playing tanks is like checkers and planes like chess, then naval is mahjong. Playing with ships can feel terribly slow in comparison to ground RB or mid-tier air RB, but once you wrap your head around the controls, nuances, and game phases then adjust your play accordingly the mode's passivity fades away to a large degree and it can actually be quite hectic. A better way of trying to understand the premise of naval combat is if you imagine flattening the spatial considerations of air RB to a two-dimensional plane- yet positioning, team cohesion, maneuvers, and pacing are just as, if not more, vital. Now combine that with all of the game knowledge surrounding ground combat (armor, angling, shell typology, etc). Finally, an extra element complicates all of these considerations- survivability. Barring bizarre circumstances (gaps in the damage model) or being entirely outclassed, chances are you're going to be slugging it out for a while so the threat calculations provides you a lot more leeway in pushing the boundaries of what is possible/advisable for the previously mentioned aspects within ground and air modes. As for ships feeling "samey same", I don't know if that feeling ever goes away if you don't grind through a tree using lineups and/or avoid playing multiple nations. Since that wasn't the goal of the video it'd be hard for you to get that perspective. The various ship classes and vehicles within each class definitely have their own "character", even if it is a bit more subtle than other vehicle types in the game (e.g., the HMS Dido and USS Helena may be light cruisers, but they play VERY differently). Visually, each nation has their own cues (Japanese smokestacks, citadels, and twin-barrelled turrets come to mind) while ships of a certain class within each nation have turret layouts that can help in identification (IJN Fuso has 6 turrets vs the IJN Kongo's 4). Admittedly, it just takes being a naval nerd or lots of play time to get that visual memory built up. P.S. One trick to help alleviate issues with both aiming and pacing is to bind a key for ranging shots. You can then toggle an option to range by gun or battery. What that does on a ship like the Kongo (4 turrets each with 2 guns) is you can have 8 individual shots or 4 paired shots rather than an all-in-one salvo with the main guns. This allows you to very quickly range in on a target without sweating reload times and once you get dialed in you can keep a non-stop rolling fire on the enemy vessel to either keep them crippled or constantly cripple multiple modules. It also allows you to transition between targets without sitting on a massive reload- you can effectively engage multiple targets simultaneously in a general area of your primary target or transition to a more threatening target if it's starting to hammer you. Combine that with the keybindings to switch to your secondaries and you can either juggle an absurd amount of targets or machine gun a single target.
Ranging shots are useful for dialing in the range and at close ranges, but at longer ranges it's quite disadvantageous. Because the dispersion stays the same no matter the number of guns you fire. So shooting fewer guns effectively results in more dispersion between each shell, statistically speaking. This is especially noticable with larger guns that have more dispersion. Using ranging shots to dial in the range, and then changing to firing full salvos is the most effective way(this also happens to be exactly how naval gunnery was done IRL).
@@kkang2828 I've only ever found dispersion to be a major issue when you start pushing the range of the gun. The heuristic I go by is caliber multiplied by 1000m. Anything over that and you'll start running afoul of dispersion. The Japanese 14s are pretty good, accuracy wise, to at least 12km.
@@Sigmagnat650 Well each to their own. Though have you tried any of the 15" guns? For some reason, 15" guns have substantially more dispersion than 14" guns in the game. It's as if the scaling of dispersion is exponential and not linear. In reality, all battleship guns should have more or less similar dispersion, aside from a few outliers.
@@kkang2828 I have a little experience with them, not enough for any meaningful insight. It wouldn't surprise me though knowing how Gaijin treats the UK bluewater tree (it's borderline criminal).
7:45 I can sorta offer an explanation for this as someone who's both a train nerd and a tank/warplane nerd, It can be hard sometimes to overlook the awful history of many of the machines we fanboy/fangirl/fanthey over, I love the panther, I think it's fuckin' sick, I wouldn't ever want to meet any of the evil cunts who operated them though. Trains are mostly free of these, they're just big beautiful pieces of mechanical engineering, that are by all means, a public good! and there can be a lot of style and fascinating history to them, much like war-machines. Take a peek at the history of the "Australian Standard garratt" some time, it's a total lemon of a train.
I came to War Thunder from World of Warships. I appreciate the added challenge, but I probably wouldn’t like ships if I did have the previous experience.
So i just watched your video and i thought it was interesting, especially as a Naval main and see what your thoughts would be. Below is things i agreed and disagreed on when watching the video that i wrote down in discord that i copy pasted here. 1. i 100% agree with the aiming in RB, i find incrediably tedious due to the constant need to adjust it because of the distance and speeds your fighting at, which is why i dont like playing RB. 2. The split in tech trees shouldnt be a thing but its better than before were you have to grind out the coastal then start on bluewater ships like it was a few years ago, still the suggestion made in the video is a good one. 3. i disagree with the idea that coastal is inherintly less fun than bluewater, i agree with the notion that a blue water will win 90% of the time against most coastal ships but thats only in scenarios were both types of ship are in game, purely coastal battles are fairly action packed and can be alot more engaging, especially since for the most part you are on equal footing. 4. i disagree with the statement that naval vehicles inherntly play and/or look the same, there is differences between them that make gameplay varied, for an example american destroyers like moffet and porter have incrediable rates of fire for there guns, have alot of guns, but have vulnerable magazine storage and below average torpedoes. Compare that with russian destroyer tashkent, it has few guns and fire at a slower rate with even worse torpedoes, but they have very high yield SAP with great penetration and muzzel velocity, which makes it one of the best destroyers in game, this comparison can be done across the board with naval ships so i find it odd it was said, just as there is differences between a panzer 4, sherman and t34 there is differences between a helena, sverdelov, mogami and london which makes each encounter with them more unique and can change how you play against them or as them. 5. while aircraft in RB are certaintly not very powerful, it is totally opposite in AB, which at times can be worse than ground RB, mainly from orbiting pe8s and other high yield bombers that sit outside of AA range and kill entire teams. thats all the thoughts that popped out at me the most but there is other things as well that i can comment on.
Naval has some easy fixes. Add subs, add the ships people want (Yamato) and maybe implement introduce new game mode that sees double the lobby size where half plays naval and other half is in the air and teams attack each other (e.g. same naval combat but add more players that battle in the air combat and run torpedoes to enemy ships)
Naval is just a different vibe from the rest of the game, it’s a lot more chilled and the skill ceiling is MUCH higher especially in RB so I find it more relaxing while at the same time still being rewarding. That being said it absolutely needs more modern ships with larger maps (especially if they ever add more modern warships)
I was writing an extremely long essay about issues Naval has, but my browser ran out of memory and crashed. Cool. Here's the abridged version: A lot of Naval's ships are very redundant on top of being samey. The IJN has what amounts to four Fusos, two Kongos, three Mogamis, three Furutakas, a bunch of Hatsuharus, a bunch of Mutsukis, and a bunch of Yugumos. These ships all have different stats of course but aren't different enough to feel like a large achievement when you obtain them on top of all generally looking like one-another. Naval's only competition, World of Warships, is much much better at making a new ship feel like a different but related experience to the one you had just before it, whether good or bad. Naval badly needs more variety in it. What I listed was JUST Japan, but every nation suffers it too. It also needs a less strange progression of time- why are boats with CIWS and missiles fighting pre-war and interwar dreadnoughts? Why are they fighting H8K flying boats with SAMs? And why do we lose that tech when we move up to the next rank? It's all very nonsensical and ultimately devalues the actual role these vessels were intended to play.
I personally like naval the most, the slower pace is something I like. I dont enjoy or play well in the others though I still play them. I need to add my boats back in my lineups again to refresh myself on the current boat experience. Though i can say that boats can be proper game changers and dare I say game deciders. If they succeed in capping and holding them the game is over. Ive been on both ends of that. One complaint I do have is how stupidly accurate the AA AI can be. Like i can't tell you how many times I get sniped by a random aa gun from like 4-5+km away. They do need to just calm down on the accuracy. Like there is no point in adding AP bombs if we're gonna get shot down so quickly. Im curious about the idea of adding FFGs, DDGs, CLGs and CAGs to the game. These are the various types of guided missile warships. Though Im unsure. All I can say is that I have identified some ships that could be added relatively comfortably in the game's current state. Ships like uss albany and uss gyatt. The only issue i have is what I can "indirect powercreep" im not massivly worried about anti ship missiles. I'm worried about SAMs. The level of no fly zone is gonna have to allow more capable aircraft in which kills having the earlier ones in game.
@@Sigmagnat650 yeah I agree. They should tune down the overall accuracy of gunners of ships and increase the bomber accuracy. *gaijin will never do this:(*
@@Caktusdud. The AI AA of player controlled ships are actually not that accurate. You can easily avoid them by simply not flying straight and making slight evasive maneuvers. The AI AA of Gaijin bots(not the third party farming bots) is what really snipes you from 5km even if you try to avoid. Adding more missile ships right now will just ruin naval even more. We need to have a solid foundation with WW1~2 era naval warfare being actually fun and balanced first.
@@kkang2828 they really are. I have been killed by players that way and I am manourveing and behikd cover. Or really far away. They still hit player or not. Granted most of them don't actually hit me but the games abilty to know that is non existent and most of them are pilot snipes because of course they are.
Agreed the aa is unreal I'll be creeping up with an island as cover and the second I pop up I'm riddled with machine gun fire or yeah snipped when I'm 3k in the air it's just emersion breaking
I would say that visual identification is harder but when you come from games like World of Warships; knowing that what your shooting is a desmoines and not a worcester can be helpful, but not threatening by any means
Imo the worst thing about naval is the br compression. Like, there is just nothing appealing about dying to a heavy cruiser over and over again in your little destroyer, because you can't do anything, since your torps don't have much range and are easy to evade, your guns can't hurt it and he can kill you in one shot. Honestly feels like playing 11.3 air rb. You're always stuck fighting significantly superior enemies, can't really control the match at all, and have to play like a vulture to get kills. Couple this with the fact that these superior ships are being played by players that know what they're doing and you basically block any new players from getting anywhere in naval.
Skill issue if the Same Things happen to you over and over again. For me, destroyers are extreme Deadly against everything, just play em properly and according to their role. Aggressive destroyer gameplay is highly rewarding.
@@andreasliebisch3881 Yet how do i get better when all the bigger ships that are much easier to play are played by the good players that have hundreds of hours in naval? While I'm stuck in this crappy little boat that gets orbital striked by them from spawn.
Personally I think that coastal battle are much more fun the blue water, the maps aren't that much bigger than ground rb and the boats mostly are crazy fast so coastal is way fast paced, and you need to know where an enemy has been shot before, and where to shoot them now, which is like leading a tank shot in ground rb
6:59 i think this issue has to do w how new naval is when compared to other game modes. On the start of the game, aircraft and tanks weren't that different mechanically from they counterparts; they were all WW2 vehicles that worked all the same, until jets, missiles, ATGMs and other stuff came to add variety. Maybe on some years we will see more variety of weaponry with missiles, aircraft carriers, subs and others, and things will be more diverse through the gameplay.
After playing Naval RB a bunch I must agree that I still have no idea what ships I am playing against. It has to do a lot with typical engage distance imo. In WoWs you have both marker with model name and clear view even on distant ships. In Naval RB you have no markers and the ship is a distant foggy silhouette, plus you always play vs mixed teams so you cannot really narrow it down by nation often. I learned some ships only after watching bunch of UA-cam videos and even then its just a few.
I've always loved war ships and naval stuff and World Of Warships is fun and its targeting system is WAY better but I honestly prefer a lot of the aspects of WT's naval battles, like the destruction, the explosions, the friggin maps as well. World of war ships feels like a knock off game with its weird maps and the grinding system sucks but the rest of the aspects in the game are a little better than WT's, Gajin does need to work on the naval battles and they could honestly be really good with some little fixes and I'd actually play them more often
You got the wrong ship. If you get a Des Moines or fast battlecruiser, it's fun as hell. I like the USS Roanoke, the Atlanta and the Mitscher because they spam shots.
moving a coastal torpedo boat of tier 3-4 to a good place and then picking huge ships from 10km+ or just placing a lot of mines is pretty awesome. try not to get stuck in the wows tree that doesn´t work here
Another thing to note is that certain countries (or specific ships) just utterly dominate their BRs. For example, the Moffet at 5.0 is objectively better than every other destroyer in the game both due to its armor and firepower. There are also some countries that just kinda suck in naval, like France or Italy.
Navals fun but at the lower to mid tiers, it is blatantly unbalanced, and the grind to get the top tier ships takes forever, especially when you dont get that much sp, you gotta use the same ships for tens of battles
Skill issue, progress is very,very fast if you know what you are doing. Sitting on nearly all naval trees complete, 30 matches for a New hightier vessel is Not slow, Tier 1-3 is insane fast too.
@@andreasliebisch3881Exactly, if you know what you are doing. I started with coastal and I suffered my way to 3rd rank and only now I am kind of starting to know what is going on and starting having fun. With that said, I would probably never come back to Naval if there wouldn’t be battlepass challenges for it, thats how boring, slow and frustrating the start of Naval felt to me.
they where separated because it use to take a long time to even get to destroyers so it was done to make it less grinding i use to play naval when it was one tree and your complaint about it was ten fold when it was one you just want a destroyer but you need at least 60 or more hours of grinding to get them depending on country and then you where curved stomped by better DDs
I appreciate the 30 hours of research. Beyond the 90 usd that is real. Just starting to research the game and wondered what it was all about. Appreciate this view point as I move on to the next videos.
Navel need to be more than just "battleships". Coastal, destroyer, subs, aircraft carriers, air fighters, air bombers. Need a mode that add everything, with their own role and such. *Realistic aim you just need to add aim up down to the scroll wheel.* Once you are able to use it, it is actually easier to hit ships and or components. Another aspect to the guessing is to try and figure out what your opponent is doing while having good range guessing gunners (crew stat) and use the estimate they give to estimate where the ship will be. For example the gunner, based on speed and so on, says X position, but you noticed the opposing player is speeding up and down at random, but not really random, more in "waves" pattern and currently you estimate he is slowing down so you shoot a bit to shorter than the estimate. Now you add AP rounds and where on the ship you want to hit and estimate in regards to that as well. Boom, you get a ammo rack and the long fight isnt that long after all. On realistic the manual aiming is such that once you get it. You can do more than you regularly can in arcade. It is kinda like driving an automatic vs a stick shift on diffusivity terrain. Stick shift is more complex, but also easier to use on difficult terrain once you know how to.
bro really spent $90 on a vid with only 260 views
you gotta start somewhere lol
So? He got a good ship. Also you shouldn't judge quality on views. The "Elsa-gate" vid's had millions of views my man!
ratiod
Its got 3.1k now
Pin of shame. Cry more coward
Some lore on why Bluewater and Coastal are separate trees:
They used to be in the same tree with a very weird research path, the aim was to let you quickly get to the type of ship you wanted to play and grind out those. The problem was Gaijin included their minimum researched vehicles required to unlock the next rank mechanic and set that number to the same number of vehicles in that rank. Making the grind extremely long.
Also, gaijin was only planning to have naval be coastal ships but the players kept asking for larger and larger ships since no one really wanted to play random torpedo boats. But when they did add the large destroyers and cruisers the players started complaining that they had to play the small torpedo ships when they wanted to play destroyers and up.
So eventually gaijin split the trees to satisfy these players, and it was a good move because the RP cost on ships at the time was incredibly outrageous (kinda looked like the heli grind does right now).
Would it make sense if a naval tree was structured more like the ground and air trees? Yes, it would. Will gaijin bother changing it again? Probably not.
Yes..I had the first Destroyer by the time it became reserve anyways xD
Was going to say they used to be in the same tree
Ya that wrecked a lot of people, and the jumbling of the research tree so that you had to go back and research ships they stuck behind those you'd already got. My Coastal tree was a mess.@@Talos827
@@vbvolsameeeee😂
Just made a comment on that but you put it much better. New players might find it annoying to havd separate trees but us that were on the first days of naval know how bad the single tree was lol.
BRO being a torpedo boat, rushing a destroyer and torping them is the best feeling in war thunder
Dats what im sayong
I ussually wait for the battleships to come around a corner and then rushing them while theire under 500 meters away and just releasing my Torpedos in theire face...... took a dark turn
He’s judging them off the same way everyone plays the pt boats at first. Pt boat is the snake in the grass. Hidden from sight until the time is right. I got 45k sl for killing a dd with a reserve pt boat lol
@@galilelollel9658me in my BB knowing that PT boats are hiding in those islands , so anyway( AA guns and secondary guns) saturate fire on that direction + torpedo beating your torps
very fun to play is like playing dodgeball with a ship XD
One tappng you with my big naval ships before dodging said Torps is also the best feeling in War Thunder.
When you come around that corner, i know you're there. And i got my cannon and ready to fire the instant i see your toy boat.
Naval player here, yes, the learning curve is a lot steeper than with the other modes. Also, realistic aiming is difficult at first, but once you get the hang of it, you have far more control over where you land your shots. I personally dislike naval matchmaking games, so i usually play on the weekends to get naval EC which is extremely fun. You play 16 on 16 in massive maps, allowing you to maneuver and sail for extreme distances
Yeah EC is amazing. Me and one guy in USS Alaska/IJN Haruna ended up racking up easily 750k SL during an EC match this weekend.
@@karldergrosse-333whats EC?
@@commando4481enduring conflict
I wish EC was RB. I dislike AB
@@van3158it is. Just not every day. I think right now, sundays are realistic EC.
Still, battles are decided by coastal ships even in the highest tier. Sometimes a side does not have a single coastal ship, so one fast PT boat can capture 2 zones which are far from the bluewater ships, and win the battle alone.
Yep, and because 75% of the Ship community never even move to re-capture the game is over. Most just sit in the back with heavy cruisers and battleships farming SLs. Hard to tell what is a bot ship and a player, usually the one moving is a bot.
As an italian naval player, It sucks how bad the first 2 eras of costal are, it's basically impossibile to grind... I just use the fast and swift deepblue italian options like the Montecuccoli or Attilio Regolo as a costal sub.
@@Fiasco3doesn't help that your options are a 10minute cruise across the map to cap or waste 10s of thousands of SL just to J out. It's a rough system.
@@Fiasco3 i'm always on the move, it bugs me that players just sit back
You can use floatppanes to capture points so a lot of players can do so with pretty mininal risk.
It's actually knowing a ships uniqueness that helps you. Size of gun, reload speed.. anti-aircraft armament.. do I have mines, what is my torpedo range and arc. Depending on the year they were employed and refits, even ships of the same type are different. What is my armor like, does the ship close range brawl or is it better sniping. There's even consideration on what CAS you run.. do you go for a big high-flying bomber, torpedo plane, dive bomber or heavy cannon/rocket strafer, plus pontoon hydro-planes for stealing cap points.
You can use hydro planes for capping?! OMG dude I gotta try
one thing I noticed with naval is that the grind seems really stupid, like rank 5 ships are the same rp as researching a top tier jet
Did you look at the reward rates?
It also takes a lot longer to research ships in naval
@@robertharris6092 reward rates are bad in naval lol, due to the length of time battles take, lack of possible rp that can be gained in a battle (damage is especially a problem) and just overall bad rp requirements and multipliers
@@looke3392 600% SL rate is pretty good to me.
@@robertharris6092 you didn't read anything I said.
5:15, you have to check those ships with X-ray in the menu and learn to aim for the ammo rack and end the battle early
Or hitting the ammo elevator
Easy ships to ammo rack are 90% of us techtree.
I was playing when naval released, I have a few comments on the points made in this video:
-It is definitely possible to learn the differences between different naval ships, especially since different nations have different weapon designs. A British DD gun is much different than an American DD gun.
-Realistic does have a steeper learning curve, yes, but I would say it's something you can get used to. Partially an acquired taste type situation.
-Coastal and Bluewater got split so people didn't have to spend 100 hours farming pt boats to get the reserve DDs (american coastal grind pain)
Overall, I still think your opinions are valid since I know I'm just a bit weird and have a hyperfixation on warships. Sorry if I sound like a "that guy".
Ive been playing war thunder since before naval. The pt boats used to be in the main tree however it was weird. The boats started on the left with the cheapest and the right was the most expensive ships. Like you get 1.0 pt gun boat and below is a 2.3 torpedo boat and has a submarine hunter next to it while the pt gun boat has an anti aircraft barge
The trees used to be merged but after some evaluation (and rightly so) Gaijin finds that combining them just makes the entire naval aspect a slog and not to mention, pretty boring since it takes a while until you can get to the most basic of pre-war destroyers. And thinking about it, splitting them makes sense since development of blue water ships is pretty different compared to brown water ships. A destroyer can't operate as well in an environment where the PBR excel in thanks to the low clearance and shallow waters. Same with how a PBR can't go to the sea that well since the sea will just tear it to shreds.
Brown water ships? I didn't know the Coast Guard patrolled sewers.
@@Chicky_Lumps Rivers. Think Vietnam rivers and the PBR and you’re there.
Except there os literally no difference between high tier coastal and low tier bluewater. Both have destroyers, both have large torpedo boats. There are lots of interesting WW2 ships that currently don't really fit into war thunder because of this split as they kinda fall between coastal and bluewater but fit into neither. Especially stuff like larger torpedo boats, frigates, and smaller destroyers
3:00 Trust me i say this, Naval was a hell hole before the separation of costal and blue water, the only way people were able to play cruiser and Destroyers were after 2 years of grinding or just buying the packs.
Trust me, a world of people would be even more pissed off if they had to grind through coastal ships to get to blue water vessels.
Keep them apart.. Forever.
Nononononono. Gaijin already separated the coastal and bluewater trees, I remember having to grind through so many shitty American and British pt boats just to get to a destroyer that wasn't very good. Since they split the trees I have actually convinced my friends to try it and since they were starting in destroyers that are big and powerful compared to the PT boats.
Appreciate the comment, but maybe listen to what I say before disagreeing? I specifically addressed this problem by saying the combined tree should still allow you to start at bluewater. Essentially, having a reserve tier at the beginning of coastal, and another farther town the tech tree at bluewater. That way you can play bluewater and still have your RP go towards researching coastal craft if you want.
I'm glad to see someone actually putting in the effort, instead of just saying "naval sucks". That being said, in my experience a lot of the frustration about coastal vessels comes from wanting to play them together with bluewater ships. I mainly play coastal, because I love the faster paced gameplay of it. Once you get to bluewater ship BR, you can easily take on the early DDs, just because you've gotten yourself a feel for your tiny boat and what it can and can't do. Your point about arcade being more fun in naval is true, imo, especially since it allows you to get a torpedo lead indicator. While learning to aim in air RB is a thing of seconds, it`s far more frustrating to learn to aim with torpedoes. You have either a long reload, or no reload at all in RB.
Maybe something has changed or something but I play naval in rb and I get a torpedo lead indicator as long as if fire my torps 1 at a time
@@mikeporter1005 Sweet, thanks for the info. Guess I'll give it another shot.
The boats have their uses, when not exposed they can get in fast (usually through an island chain) and grab cap points then harass bigger ships.
@@Fiasco3Definitely, just waiting a few seconds for a DD to tunnel vision on one of my teammates has gotten me so many torpedo kills. And a cruiser sitting behind an island in the back may put out damage, but I've yet to see one reach a cap point in time
But RB also has torp lead indicators. What are you talking about? RB is infinitely better for smaller boats, as they are not as easy to spot without markers.
Thank you for genuinely giving it a try. I love naval and there is nothing more annoying then people who know nothing about naval calling it a trash game mode. I can accept criticism when it comes from a place of genuine understanding
Naval is all I play
When it comes to realistic, you must set your range to ur middle mouse button, when you can adjust aiminh with the scroll to make it more accurate
Back when naval was new before they changed aiming there was no up and down aiming at all there was only side to side and scroll wheel for distance. I much proffered that to the current aim as I accidentally aim up and down sometimes with my mouse which then changes the range my shots land at. Before with the aiming I just did lead and then figured out enemies distance and could easliy ammo rack an enemy boat.
The shot aiming is why I love naval. When you get rekt, it’s usually because the guy is actually really good. Vs ground battles where you die to a guy shooting thru a gap in a box that you can’t see from 2km away
I agree Naval is more skill based. Where as ground is more of hide and shoot first.
You need to feel the sensation of takedown a big battleship with a small G-5 or other torpedo boat. Small boats are challenging to master but become a dangerous opponent with good players.
There are a few videos on reconfiguring your controls for Naval overall, and doing it makes a HUGE difference. You should always be using stuff like the ranging shot which makes aiming EXTREMELY easy as you can volley for various ranges. I would recommend you look into it and try again, again.
Ships are definitely interesting and unique there just confirms within the shape of a boat unlike a plane or tank ships can’t really vary from being a boat at the end of the day if you really get into it different countries have vastly different ships and every battleship is mostly unique
5:48 what is sexier than a large battleship with more firepower than an entire match of ground rb combines... in one 381mm cannon?
Nice Video overall, but I have some stuff to add.
You can Absolutely hit specific components in naval and 1 shot things... Just takes practice with aiming. After grinding for almost a year I can pretty much just knock off the enemy captain's cigar off his mouth from over 10 kms away while both ships are actively maneuvering lol.
I will however, suggest learning to aim with realistic. I actually feel NRB better coz I can decide to aim a bit higher or lower on the deck or waterline for the gun knockouts or the juicy ammo racks.
I love playing DDs coz its the best mix of maneuverability and knife-fighting; as well as rapid fire to readjust aim and providing supporting fire from range.
Coastal Vessels usually decide the fate of the match (other than float planes). I usually spawn in a fast coastal boat, take a cap, launch torps if i have them and then leave vehicle and rejoin in a bigger ship. Usually both sides' players are too busy fighting other big ships and it comes down to a stalemate. Having that 1 cap usually wins me quite a few games.
I am not writing this as a hate comment or a showoff even if it might come off that way. I love naval warfare in general and I think Warthunder naval really captures naval warfare pretty well. Naval is supposed to be boring coz its all about what you did 5 minutes ago and not what you are doing now lol. I like the slower pace.
That said, Great video. Keep it up! o7
what nation are you playing
@@kyarailumi I'm playing USSR and moving towards the Kronshtad.
What's funny, is that guy who barely understands game mode is explaining it to people who heve played it for years.
Game mode is flawed but I can only hope that devs won't make it similar to ground battles
Coastal main here:
The reason you got bored of naval combat is because you picked the ships with the slowest gameplay loop. Battleships are painfully slow and they are the reason I refuse to touch any ship above 5.0 If you want to have fun in naval, you really have to find hidden gems. The Pr.35 (SKR-7) is one of them. But you could pick the SKR-1, the Köln-class germain frigattes, the italian Saetta (nigh useless against anything bigger than a fishing boat but damn swatting WW2 props out of the sky with AShMs is the most fun you can have in the game), USS Moffet, USS Atlanta...
The main problem with naval is the awful BR compression and the technology of the ships. Most of thr fun ships I listed are cold war era. Most of the ships you played, the ones slow as a snail with parkinson's, are pre- to early WW2 battleships/heavy cruisers. Slow as hell with even slower guns, but Gaijin keeps adding them because morons keep buying them, desparately hugging their body pillows, begging for the Texas and Yamato to be finally added so they can [REDACTED] all over their monitors.
Gaijin refuses to add modern ships with very few exceptions, almost all of them in the coastal tree.. and most if not all of them are fun, as long as they are fighting similar ships. PT boats VS. Destroyers isn't fun because 1. PT boats weren't made to kill Destroyers, and 2. Destroyers were *specifically engineered to kill PT boats*
There are people who find battleships to be pretty fun. You really shouldn't deride them as 'morons' just because you don't like larger ships. Though it is true that naval's issues are the most apparent when you play the larger ships. And of course beginners should not be starting out with battleships. Destroyers are the best way to learn naval.
@@kkang2828 I'm not calling battleship players morons, I'm caling people who buy premium battleships without any researchj, who then complain that they are boring morons
@@jackgamer6307 OK. You really could have worded it better though.
@@jackgamer6307I played through the British tech tree from the start first. I played naval for 20 hours before even touching a battleship. Watch the video fool.
@@Tymptra British ships in specific are on the slower side in the game, in terms of destroyers
As the resident WT naval CC. I appreciate the effort put into your review.
Lead is decided by speed. You can use the pippers on the aim sight to determine the aim lead.
1 marker =10km/h
Coastal is the best tree to play for adrenaline filled fun. It just requires skill and patience.
I choose the dinky boat with torpedoes, CIWS and depth charges.
Some of your comments regarding
Playstyle and ship variety are very
Shallow. You just dont seem to have the knowledge of what your looking at. That comes from experience
If you would like to revisit or learn some strategy hit me up
I think whether ships are as cool as planes and tanks depends on person/community a lot. It just, that there are probably more tank nerds around, than ship nerds. And like you said with train fans.
I personally can't tell difference between tanks except of very famous ones, like Tiger or Sherman. But I can tell you all possible ship classes from memory and classify nation, type and maybe even "tech tree" of 1900-1950 era vessel based on one photo. Yes, they look different.
Naval is chill, until you get a torpedo warning or you see a plane coming straight for your ass.
Coastal is fun, and mostly used for capturing points or fighting in enclosed area of the maps against other coastal
Ships are not as sexy as tanks and planes? I BEG TO DIFFER, GOOD SIR!!!
No ship has perfect and elegant symmetry from bow to stern more than the Prinz Eugen and the Bismarck and their respective classes for that matter!
played like 3 games in arcade to get the hang of things, switched to realistic and yeah, was confused with aiming but in the span of a single match I got the hang of it, I’m enjoying naval so far
Well my boosters ran out so I guess I'll have to see if anyone wants to play naval RB cause I haven't played it in like a week lol
I'm one of those people that is into trains (7:56), and I can identify many of the locomotives in my area within a few seconds. I occasionally play Train Sim. I can identify most of the ships in War Thunder Naval, at least their class, if not the individual unit without screen help. I tried WoW and found the arcade to be "cheesy". I want as realistic as possible. My passion is frigates and destroyers. I may have to try both tech trees because my interests seem to be on both sides of the internal border. A Porter class ship (USS Moffet) or a Gearing class ship (USS Knox) would be nice. The Soviet Project 56 (Kotlin class) destroyer looks good with two twin 13cm SM-2 mounts, and the RBU6000 ASW rockets. The quad 45mm are underwhelming, do to overheating problem in the real world, and did not appear on any future ships in the Soviet navy. If and when I got comfortable with a Moffet, then I would consider buying a Knox.
ships are way more sexy than anything else ships are the ultimate way that man kind found to make war since the start of civilization
I'll have to disagree with the 'all ships look the same'. At some point you'll realise that the destroyers have major differences. The US has the Sommers class with a ridiculous reload speed that just pummels you with HE, the Japanese have the best torpedoes, the Germans and Russians have good main armament, the British are the easiest to kill if you aim for the deck cause thats where the ammo is stored, a featured removed in the last destroyers of the tree. Later in the cruiser part, and this is where I hate the current meta, you'll realise that US has the best cruisers, as all they do is sit at spawn and use their ridiculous reload speed to just spam HE and melt your crew to death as you try and leave spawn. Any other feature the rest of the nations have is completely negated by US spamming ability. The Russians have the kronshdat, a ship that was never completed that just absolutely tanks anything you throw at it. Only in battleships do you find an equalizer, where theyre all pretty much the same, slow, thick with punchy guns
Yeah, this guy just sounds like a normie. If you haven't been interested in warships they will all look the same, just like a non tank guy won't be able to tell apart a Panther from a t34.
Naval imo is the best game mode in WT. I started playing WT before boats were added bc i always found the fast paced pixel peeking tanks or turn fighting bf109s and spitfires fun in tiny doses. I consistently play naval now, i enjoy actually having the time to think about my strategies and stay alive for a while and make hits even if i dont get kills or its just assists. If youre tired of getting mad at WT naval is the way to go. Destroyers are the best class
If naval was more refined I would play it more because I want to play a naval game, but WT is the only one I know of with the mechanics I want. Another thing that'd be great would be if they brought back a submarine mode because I played the demo years ago and despite not knowing how to play it well at all, it was really fun
You mean a year ago, prolly:) At what BR the subs were?
Check out the battlestations games
Naval arcade is being slept on, getting torpedo recharges and aim help is extremely fun, hate naval realistic with everything I have
Coastal ships are separate because imagine how much it would suck to go into your first naval battle in a PT boat and get one tapped by a destroyer. That can still happen, but at least you can grind straight into destroyers and heavier ships rather than having to grind through a bunch of PT boats and frigates first.
I enjoy your videos, they’re pretty informative for someone like me who’s getting back into the game. Keep up the good work!
Personally I believe that Gajin should keep the Naval trees separate and allow you to grind coastal vessels. With blue water vehicles.
Like how you can grind Coppers with tanks.
Merging them together would make the grind worse. Also like you said most people play blue water. So that would be redundant and contradictory.
I love playing coastal but it is something you have to get into it's just hilarious to me when this tiny baby launches 27 torpedoes at a battleship that can do literally nothing but cry in their sleep
I love customisation and drawing attention to myself with the vehicles I use. That's why I'm such an avid collector of event vehicles. It also happens to be the reason why I entirely agree with you on this point! 5:49 . The event and rare versions of ships in WT rarely have any immediately noticeable and distinguishing features, and they don't draw double-takes from other players. One of my favourite things is when I'm in ground or air battles and I get comments in chat like "What the heck is that?", or when I can see very clearly multiple friendly tanks turning their turrets to look at me (yes, I'm an attention w**re XD ). In naval, the biggest change is generally just some armament switchups that only you will really notice.
The German heavy cruiser used to be so OP because it used to be the only heavy cruiser
i dont really know what you mean because the japanese was the first nation to get heavy cruisers in game?
Still Sharnhost is the best
Kronstadt is wayy better@@mehuna66
spawning pee in enduring confrontation 50 kills in 2 hours top of the team 🤤
@@Halo1111Halo yeah but no one played the japanese
i hopped on naval recently. and its decent. its a massive SL grinder and its pretty fun doing full broadsides.
Bruh...I just wanted to tell you coastal is VERY important. These ships cap....I have been in matches that were won only by coastal ships constantly capping shallow points. I used to play WoW's , but after the infamous CV rework and being shot-gunned by subs, over and over I went to WT Naval. You know what? "War...Thunder...it's fantastic!"
Winning games is important but so is having fun imo
True, the Tucumcari is fast
True, the Tucumcari is fast
Yeah, fully agree. Naval in its current state is extreme well Balanced and pure fun. Biggest issue for me are the players without any idea, just Camping somewhere is Not Naval warfare and its Not rewarding.
@@andreasliebisch3881 well-balanced? you sure we're playin' the same game?
because all my memories of naval involved me trying to rush the shallow-water point in my moffett so I wouldn't get torn to shreds by all the bingchilling bots sitting in spawn w/ their helenas and prinz eugens.
To answer your question about the tech trees: They used to share just one tree. But they found that most players trying their hand at naval were interested primarily in the larger bluewater ships, which were locked behind multiple tiers of grinding. It wasn't quite the same as air or ground trees, because the lower tiers were full of coastal vessels which play dramatically differently to the bluewaters. It was like being forced to play call of duty for 100 hours to reach CS: Go. As a result, the developers split the trees so that people could play how they wanted.
Naval is the most relaxed part of war thunder. I just put my headphones in and be clapping cheeks with my Scharnhorst.
You can’t complain about realistic reload times and “preference”. I personally love dreadnoughts, and the battles are relatively well paced.
As someone who’s only played air for the last 6 years and have achieved top tier air.
Naval is addicting.
There is nothing that hits dopamine better than landing a 45degree broadside with some explosive round from a high angle at 12km.
The tech trees used to not be separate. It was just the coastal one, it went from PT boats to light cruisers. I agree, the two trees is dumb.
Im starting to prefer naval to ground since you have more of a fight with the ships and you cant get taken out by someone camo'd up like a bush
i enjoy the naval battles more than what i do tanks and aviation
I like naval. It is slow and a little boring but whenever I’m getting frustrated playing air or ground I’ll play naval for a bit and just chill.
Have unlocked the entire Kriegsmarine.. Was worth getting the ultimate coastal boats to compliment your bluewater fleet. My personal fav lineup is Admiral Hipper for constant barrage of guns.. Jaguar & PR 206 for coastal speed and quad torp runs.. The Admiral Graf Spee and Scharnhorst to fill out Bluewater.. along with these aircraft, the FW 190 (premium) & HE 111 H6 with torp loadouts.
I prefer Naval to Tonks & Planes.. but there's not a large enough playerbase. Really hope Subs are incorporated into the lineup soon. Were soooo much fun!
As a Naval player I do wish there were more modern ships and Air craft carriers and subs.
He makes a lot of great points concerning War Thunder Naval itself, but I think stating things like "ships aren't as iconic as tanks" and such is a little biased. Yes, it is sort of like those who like trains so much, why is Engine A any different to Engine B? But, boats are still iconic. Show most history fans an image of Hood, Bismarck or Yamato, chances are they'll know what they are. Same story goes with other famous ships like Titanic and to a lesser extent Enterprise. As a massive naval history fan I think that saying something like that is a little bit of bad faith, but that was the only qualm I had. WT naval is very, very mid.
I see where you are coming from. Yeah it is biased, but that's because it's just my opinion :) I'm not saying they are objectively not as iconic as tanks. I just think they aren't and I feel like most people would probably agree. I mean, the average person cannot tell the difference between a tank and an IFV... which imo is way easier than telling ships apart. Hope that clears it up, I think a lot of people misunderstood that comment. Thank you for watching.
Well… this comment section has enough proof that most people actually don’t agree with you.
As someone who likes ground vehicles, planes, *and* ships all in the same manner, IMO telling a destroyer apart from a battleship or telling a fighter apart from a bomber is actually somewhat easier than telling a tank apart from an IFV, in general. There’s the sheer size difference for the ships, and most fighters look very different from most bombers(as well as reasonable size difference), whereas both tanks and IFVs have a flat square-ish hull and two sets of tracks and a single turret with a single gun. They look quite the same for the uninformed, and the size difference isn’t *that* noticeable at a glance. But that’s just my own opinion. I respect yours as well.
i love the lyrics when he says "Save or kill, it's a game"
Naval is chill, until you realise you're already in enemy waters lol
Naval is a great change of pace from the rest of the game! If playing tanks is like checkers and planes like chess, then naval is mahjong.
Playing with ships can feel terribly slow in comparison to ground RB or mid-tier air RB, but once you wrap your head around the controls, nuances, and game phases then adjust your play accordingly the mode's passivity fades away to a large degree and it can actually be quite hectic.
A better way of trying to understand the premise of naval combat is if you imagine flattening the spatial considerations of air RB to a two-dimensional plane- yet positioning, team cohesion, maneuvers, and pacing are just as, if not more, vital. Now combine that with all of the game knowledge surrounding ground combat (armor, angling, shell typology, etc). Finally, an extra element complicates all of these considerations- survivability. Barring bizarre circumstances (gaps in the damage model) or being entirely outclassed, chances are you're going to be slugging it out for a while so the threat calculations provides you a lot more leeway in pushing the boundaries of what is possible/advisable for the previously mentioned aspects within ground and air modes.
As for ships feeling "samey same", I don't know if that feeling ever goes away if you don't grind through a tree using lineups and/or avoid playing multiple nations. Since that wasn't the goal of the video it'd be hard for you to get that perspective. The various ship classes and vehicles within each class definitely have their own "character", even if it is a bit more subtle than other vehicle types in the game (e.g., the HMS Dido and USS Helena may be light cruisers, but they play VERY differently). Visually, each nation has their own cues (Japanese smokestacks, citadels, and twin-barrelled turrets come to mind) while ships of a certain class within each nation have turret layouts that can help in identification (IJN Fuso has 6 turrets vs the IJN Kongo's 4). Admittedly, it just takes being a naval nerd or lots of play time to get that visual memory built up.
P.S.
One trick to help alleviate issues with both aiming and pacing is to bind a key for ranging shots. You can then toggle an option to range by gun or battery. What that does on a ship like the Kongo (4 turrets each with 2 guns) is you can have 8 individual shots or 4 paired shots rather than an all-in-one salvo with the main guns. This allows you to very quickly range in on a target without sweating reload times and once you get dialed in you can keep a non-stop rolling fire on the enemy vessel to either keep them crippled or constantly cripple multiple modules. It also allows you to transition between targets without sitting on a massive reload- you can effectively engage multiple targets simultaneously in a general area of your primary target or transition to a more threatening target if it's starting to hammer you. Combine that with the keybindings to switch to your secondaries and you can either juggle an absurd amount of targets or machine gun a single target.
Ranging shots are useful for dialing in the range and at close ranges, but at longer ranges it's quite disadvantageous. Because the dispersion stays the same no matter the number of guns you fire. So shooting fewer guns effectively results in more dispersion between each shell, statistically speaking. This is especially noticable with larger guns that have more dispersion. Using ranging shots to dial in the range, and then changing to firing full salvos is the most effective way(this also happens to be exactly how naval gunnery was done IRL).
@@kkang2828 I've only ever found dispersion to be a major issue when you start pushing the range of the gun. The heuristic I go by is caliber multiplied by 1000m. Anything over that and you'll start running afoul of dispersion. The Japanese 14s are pretty good, accuracy wise, to at least 12km.
@@Sigmagnat650 Well each to their own. Though have you tried any of the 15" guns? For some reason, 15" guns have substantially more dispersion than 14" guns in the game. It's as if the scaling of dispersion is exponential and not linear. In reality, all battleship guns should have more or less similar dispersion, aside from a few outliers.
@@kkang2828 I have a little experience with them, not enough for any meaningful insight. It wouldn't surprise me though knowing how Gaijin treats the UK bluewater tree (it's borderline criminal).
@@Sigmagnat650 😭Well it's better than France at least...... Gaijin just hates Britain, Italy, and France in all modes.
I personally love ships. It’s more about positioning and bigger ships mean you can take more hits and kill things with ease
7:45 I can sorta offer an explanation for this as someone who's both a train nerd and a tank/warplane nerd, It can be hard sometimes to overlook the awful history of many of the machines we fanboy/fangirl/fanthey over, I love the panther, I think it's fuckin' sick, I wouldn't ever want to meet any of the evil cunts who operated them though.
Trains are mostly free of these, they're just big beautiful pieces of mechanical engineering, that are by all means, a public good! and there can be a lot of style and fascinating history to them, much like war-machines.
Take a peek at the history of the "Australian Standard garratt" some time, it's a total lemon of a train.
I came to War Thunder from World of Warships. I appreciate the added challenge, but I probably wouldn’t like ships if I did have the previous experience.
So i just watched your video and i thought it was interesting, especially as a Naval main and see what your thoughts would be. Below is things i agreed and disagreed on when watching the video that i wrote down in discord that i copy pasted here.
1. i 100% agree with the aiming in RB, i find incrediably tedious due to the constant need to adjust it because of the distance and speeds your fighting at, which is why i dont like playing RB.
2. The split in tech trees shouldnt be a thing but its better than before were you have to grind out the coastal then start on bluewater ships like it was a few years ago, still the suggestion made in the video is a good one.
3. i disagree with the idea that coastal is inherintly less fun than bluewater, i agree with the notion that a blue water will win 90% of the time against most coastal ships but thats only in scenarios were both types of ship are in game, purely coastal battles are fairly action packed and can be alot more engaging, especially since for the most part you are on equal footing.
4. i disagree with the statement that naval vehicles inherntly play and/or look the same, there is differences between them that make gameplay varied, for an example american destroyers like moffet and porter have incrediable rates of fire for there guns, have alot of guns, but have vulnerable magazine storage and below average torpedoes. Compare that with russian destroyer tashkent, it has few guns and fire at a slower rate with even worse torpedoes, but they have very high yield SAP with great penetration and muzzel velocity, which makes it one of the best destroyers in game, this comparison can be done across the board with naval ships so i find it odd it was said, just as there is differences between a panzer 4, sherman and t34 there is differences between a helena, sverdelov, mogami and london which makes each encounter with them more unique and can change how you play against them or as them.
5. while aircraft in RB are certaintly not very powerful, it is totally opposite in AB, which at times can be worse than ground RB, mainly from orbiting pe8s and other high yield bombers that sit outside of AA range and kill entire teams.
thats all the thoughts that popped out at me the most but there is other things as well that i can comment on.
Erm you're literally British😂🤢
@@qdzs1yt239 nuh uh
This popped up on my recommendations and holy smokes he does look a bit like Zelinsky.
I mean the arcade aiming kinda makes sense. There are crew mates that would math the trajectory in real life lol
Naval has some easy fixes. Add subs, add the ships people want (Yamato) and maybe implement introduce new game mode that sees double the lobby size where half plays naval and other half is in the air and teams attack each other (e.g. same naval combat but add more players that battle in the air combat and run torpedoes to enemy ships)
Naval is just a different vibe from the rest of the game, it’s a lot more chilled and the skill ceiling is MUCH higher especially in RB so I find it more relaxing while at the same time still being rewarding.
That being said it absolutely needs more modern ships with larger maps (especially if they ever add more modern warships)
I was writing an extremely long essay about issues Naval has, but my browser ran out of memory and crashed. Cool. Here's the abridged version:
A lot of Naval's ships are very redundant on top of being samey. The IJN has what amounts to four Fusos, two Kongos, three Mogamis, three Furutakas, a bunch of Hatsuharus, a bunch of Mutsukis, and a bunch of Yugumos. These ships all have different stats of course but aren't different enough to feel like a large achievement when you obtain them on top of all generally looking like one-another. Naval's only competition, World of Warships, is much much better at making a new ship feel like a different but related experience to the one you had just before it, whether good or bad.
Naval badly needs more variety in it. What I listed was JUST Japan, but every nation suffers it too. It also needs a less strange progression of time- why are boats with CIWS and missiles fighting pre-war and interwar dreadnoughts? Why are they fighting H8K flying boats with SAMs? And why do we lose that tech when we move up to the next rank? It's all very nonsensical and ultimately devalues the actual role these vessels were intended to play.
Command & Conquer Generals music. I feel old knowing I’m the only one that noticed 😭
You should try enduring naval confrontation where you get the joy of sailing for 30 minutes just to die
I personally like naval the most, the slower pace is something I like. I dont enjoy or play well in the others though I still play them.
I need to add my boats back in my lineups again to refresh myself on the current boat experience. Though i can say that boats can be proper game changers and dare I say game deciders. If they succeed in capping and holding them the game is over. Ive been on both ends of that.
One complaint I do have is how stupidly accurate the AA AI can be. Like i can't tell you how many times I get sniped by a random aa gun from like 4-5+km away. They do need to just calm down on the accuracy. Like there is no point in adding AP bombs if we're gonna get shot down so quickly.
Im curious about the idea of adding FFGs, DDGs, CLGs and CAGs to the game. These are the various types of guided missile warships. Though Im unsure.
All I can say is that I have identified some ships that could be added relatively comfortably in the game's current state. Ships like uss albany and uss gyatt.
The only issue i have is what I can "indirect powercreep" im not massivly worried about anti ship missiles. I'm worried about SAMs. The level of no fly zone is gonna have to allow more capable aircraft in which kills having the earlier ones in game.
If only my AI bomber gunners were 1% as effective as ship AA 🤣
@@Sigmagnat650 yeah I agree. They should tune down the overall accuracy of gunners of ships and increase the bomber accuracy.
*gaijin will never do this:(*
@@Caktusdud. The AI AA of player controlled ships are actually not that accurate. You can easily avoid them by simply not flying straight and making slight evasive maneuvers. The AI AA of Gaijin bots(not the third party farming bots) is what really snipes you from 5km even if you try to avoid.
Adding more missile ships right now will just ruin naval even more. We need to have a solid foundation with WW1~2 era naval warfare being actually fun and balanced first.
@@kkang2828 they really are. I have been killed by players that way and I am manourveing and behikd cover. Or really far away. They still hit player or not. Granted most of them don't actually hit me but the games abilty to know that is non existent and most of them are pilot snipes because of course they are.
Agreed the aa is unreal I'll be creeping up with an island as cover and the second I pop up I'm riddled with machine gun fire or yeah snipped when I'm 3k in the air it's just emersion breaking
My grandgrandgrandgrandpa said this : "become the sea king or lost by the sea king!! "
I enjoy naval from time to time, while it’s definitely lacking, I’d say it has made up about 15-20% of my playtime.
you can get the lead indicator in realistic, it's just a keybind
Yeah, there is a ton of keybinds in War Thunder. I love it, but for newcomer its not good:)
I would say that visual identification is harder but when you come from games like World of Warships; knowing that what your shooting is a desmoines and not a worcester can be helpful, but not threatening by any means
Imo the worst thing about naval is the br compression. Like, there is just nothing appealing about dying to a heavy cruiser over and over again in your little destroyer, because you can't do anything, since your torps don't have much range and are easy to evade, your guns can't hurt it and he can kill you in one shot. Honestly feels like playing 11.3 air rb. You're always stuck fighting significantly superior enemies, can't really control the match at all, and have to play like a vulture to get kills. Couple this with the fact that these superior ships are being played by players that know what they're doing and you basically block any new players from getting anywhere in naval.
Skill issue if the Same Things happen to you over and over again. For me, destroyers are extreme Deadly against everything, just play em properly and according to their role. Aggressive destroyer gameplay is highly rewarding.
@@andreasliebisch3881 Yet how do i get better when all the bigger ships that are much easier to play are played by the good players that have hundreds of hours in naval? While I'm stuck in this crappy little boat that gets orbital striked by them from spawn.
@@jojomaster7675 skill issue 100%
@@andreasliebisch3881 tru
But at least i don't play naval anymore.
Most fun i had in naval was a broadside fight with a scharnhorst in a ISE at 500 meters
god bless whoever tries to fly a torpedo bomber in naval
Coastalships are really fast compared to bigger ones, coastal ship battles are fun aswell imo
Personally I think that coastal battle are much more fun the blue water, the maps aren't that much bigger than ground rb and the boats mostly are crazy fast so coastal is way fast paced, and you need to know where an enemy has been shot before, and where to shoot them now, which is like leading a tank shot in ground rb
6:59 i think this issue has to do w how new naval is when compared to other game modes. On the start of the game, aircraft and tanks weren't that different mechanically from they counterparts; they were all WW2 vehicles that worked all the same, until jets, missiles, ATGMs and other stuff came to add variety. Maybe on some years we will see more variety of weaponry with missiles, aircraft carriers, subs and others, and things will be more diverse through the gameplay.
Idk I love naval man
After playing Naval RB a bunch I must agree that I still have no idea what ships I am playing against.
It has to do a lot with typical engage distance imo. In WoWs you have both marker with model name and clear view even on distant ships. In Naval RB you have no markers and the ship is a distant foggy silhouette, plus you always play vs mixed teams so you cannot really narrow it down by nation often.
I learned some ships only after watching bunch of UA-cam videos and even then its just a few.
I've always loved war ships and naval stuff and World Of Warships is fun and its targeting system is WAY better but I honestly prefer a lot of the aspects of WT's naval battles, like the destruction, the explosions, the friggin maps as well. World of war ships feels like a knock off game with its weird maps and the grinding system sucks but the rest of the aspects in the game are a little better than WT's, Gajin does need to work on the naval battles and they could honestly be really good with some little fixes and I'd actually play them more often
Tip for Leading shot is to use Ranging shot, fires one of the guns to judge range.
You got the wrong ship. If you get a Des Moines or fast battlecruiser, it's fun as hell. I like the USS Roanoke, the Atlanta and the Mitscher because they spam shots.
That intro was unexpected to say the least, but i like it when youtubers start with a quick joke.
Found your channel today and already love it!
moving a coastal torpedo boat of tier 3-4 to a good place and then picking huge ships from 10km+ or just placing a lot of mines is pretty awesome. try not to get stuck in the wows tree that doesn´t work here
Accidentally AFKed watching this video in a an air match, then came in and rekt shop, getting last man standing and winning the match. Fun.
Another thing to note is that certain countries (or specific ships) just utterly dominate their BRs. For example, the Moffet at 5.0 is objectively better than every other destroyer in the game both due to its armor and firepower. There are also some countries that just kinda suck in naval, like France or Italy.
as someone playing naval right now, thank you
0:46 *Beyond-visual-range combat naval version:*
Navals fun but at the lower to mid tiers, it is blatantly unbalanced, and the grind to get the top tier ships takes forever, especially when you dont get that much sp, you gotta use the same ships for tens of battles
Skill issue, progress is very,very fast if you know what you are doing. Sitting on nearly all naval trees complete, 30 matches for a New hightier vessel is Not slow, Tier 1-3 is insane fast too.
@@andreasliebisch3881Exactly, if you know what you are doing.
I started with coastal and I suffered my way to 3rd rank and only now I am kind of starting to know what is going on and starting having fun.
With that said, I would probably never come back to Naval if there wouldn’t be battlepass challenges for it, thats how boring, slow and frustrating the start of Naval felt to me.
they where separated because it use to take a long time to even get to destroyers so it was done to make it less grinding i use to play naval when it was one tree and your complaint about it was ten fold when it was one you just want a destroyer but you need at least 60 or more hours of grinding to get them depending on country and then you where curved stomped by better DDs
I appreciate the 30 hours of research. Beyond the 90 usd that is real.
Just starting to research the game and wondered what it was all about.
Appreciate this view point as I move on to the next videos.
Bluewater and coastal should have separate mm but coastal should be able to be taken into bluewater if you want to
Play 2.3 then, we had the Split before and the combined Mode is waaaaay better
Yeah, low ranks coastal feels kind of incomplete, when you cannot really use those big ass torpedoes against anything.
Naval main here unlike ground we are actually having fun
Getting ammo racked in spawn is fun I agree
you got ADHD got it
Navel need to be more than just "battleships".
Coastal, destroyer, subs, aircraft carriers, air fighters, air bombers. Need a mode that add everything, with their own role and such.
*Realistic aim you just need to add aim up down to the scroll wheel.*
Once you are able to use it, it is actually easier to hit ships and or components. Another aspect to the guessing is to try and figure out what your opponent is doing while having good range guessing gunners (crew stat) and use the estimate they give to estimate where the ship will be. For example the gunner, based on speed and so on, says X position, but you noticed the opposing player is speeding up and down at random, but not really random, more in "waves" pattern and currently you estimate he is slowing down so you shoot a bit to shorter than the estimate. Now you add AP rounds and where on the ship you want to hit and estimate in regards to that as well. Boom, you get a ammo rack and the long fight isnt that long after all.
On realistic the manual aiming is such that once you get it. You can do more than you regularly can in arcade. It is kinda like driving an automatic vs a stick shift on diffusivity terrain. Stick shift is more complex, but also easier to use on difficult terrain once you know how to.
I love naval RB. British ships are the worst.. the helena would have been a better premium for grinding