I could talk bikes all day, let me know if you have any questions on these two groups or if you have anything to add as well or an experience you encountered that I did not mention in this video.
Hey GC, I’ve experienced subtle chain noise/ excessive vibration in 1 or 2 select gears in middle range of cassette while setting up new bikes equipped Di2 Dura Ace and Ultegra. Straight hanger, much time dialing in micro adjustments. Have you ran into this issue before?
I really like the content of your videos, useful info & entertaining content, but it drives me batshit crazy that you upload in HDR! I watch UA-cam on my living room home theater via an AppleTV. Nearly all HDTV’s blank out the screen for a few seconds every time the media switches between HDR & SDR, so after every ad & every startup of your video, the video & audio stream drops out for 3 - 5 seconds. You’re filming informal informational content, not high production value cinematic entertainment that would actually benefit from HDR. By uploading in HDR, you are mentally & emotionally torturing every single one of your viewers who uses their HDR capable HDTV to watch UA-cam content. Keep up the good content, but please stop with this HDR madness 😁
I used to be a Dura Ace user. I liked the looks, the smaller levers, the smooth shifting, and the semi-auto mode. I had one bike that had Red on it and I grew to like it. I still don't like the bulbous hoods but I like the functionality and intuitiveness, press left to change left and right to go right. I also like it has two separate batteries in case you get in a jam. I like the wireless with no cable routing to mess with. I have had less issues with SRAM disc calipers as well. I have since converted all my bike to SRAM AXS from Rival to Red and I seem to have done it just in time for the Shimano recall. I am a SRAM convert now despite any of its flaws. If it's good enough for Sepp, it's way more than good enough for me.
I just chose Dura Ace on my new BMC TeamMachine. I had SRAM Force on my past ride and decided to give Dura Ace a go. I think the main benefit is the braking improvments and the confiiguation of the buttons on the hoods for the Garmin head unit. Good video...! Thanks @FireChiefonaBike
My personal preference is the Dura-Ace, mainly for how it shifts and the programmability through the app and the extra buttons on the top of the hoods. Great comparison video.
yea shimano is the goat for me right now but maybe because sram red has been out for so long almoist 5 years so once they release something new it might blow shimano away
As far as the TDF, it has been great watching Pogačar and Vingegaard battle it out for the yellow jersey! Especially those sprints towards the end to gain few more seconds. But the TT performance that Vingegaard displayed in Stage 16 was truly amazing!! And the fact that he completed the whole stage without having to switch bikes shows the true power that he has.
shimano is the steady workhorse and has always been tried and true, but back in th epast like 2006 the tour was ran by sram red 10 speed double tap stuff all the pros wanted it, it was super light and i loved how efficient it worked, but shimano has always been known for that smooth cadilac shift and now with them being light sram has some catching up to do
For my ultegra 11 speed di2, I just plug the charger into a usb external battery (like I charge my phone with) and pop it in the bottle cage so that it's out the way and less of a trip hazard.
Also, you get to update the firmware of the entire groupset without having to hook it up to a computer. The STI levers require a wired connection for their firmware update.
It took me quite a while to align my Red AXS front mech, but with the K-Edge catcher, I haven't dropped chain in over 10,000 miles. I used the SRAM alignment gauge and tested the hell out of it while it was in the work stand. I also used a 1.5mm hex key placed between the outer plate of the front mech and the crank arm at 12 o'clock. That really helped with the placement of the plastic wedge and the front mech straightness. Totally agree about the hood ergonomics. I prefer the R9100 shifters (haven't run the newer R9200s) and the new Force AXS D2 shifters over the original Red AXS shifters from 2019.
@@twillyspanksyourcakes Shimano's front mechs are not nearly as sensitive to misalignment. I absolutely would _not_ use a SRAM eTAP front derailleur without a catcher. The original non-AXS eTAP front derailleurs from 2016 were just as difficult to setup and prone to derailments too. I haven't tried the 2023 SRAM Force AXS D2 front mech. Apparently, SRAM has made some improvements.
My take on SRAM is the ability to do micro adjustments on the rear derailleur while riding plus the benefit of having a function button on each derailleur for shifting gears while doing maintenance!
@@TrickyTree84on the new 12 speed that isn’t available, since they moved the controller to the rear derailleur instead of the button on your handlebar or under stem
@@MJarthur95 oh ok. Fair enough. Can't say I've ever done it anyway. I do it it the workstand. I'm sure if this was a big deal they could add this via firmware.
since you said that man it feels like my life is flying by lol, its like im in this bike part bubble, that shit is crazy to me!! thansk for the info and the correction
I may be in the minority but I prefer the bulky (or as I like to say, substantial) feel of the Red shifters...I feel like I can more easily get a 90 degree elbow bend and stay in that "aero in the hoods" position with less discomfort and more confidence in my grip, and I don't have very big hands. From a consumer standpoint, I feel like since Red has been on the market longer, you are able to get better deals on new components compared to Shimano when it comes to new take off/second hand/etc markets. I was able to get RD, Brakes/Calipers/Shifters/Crank Arms for less than Force Retail price by being an ebay prowler. From a home mechanic standpoint, the ease of installation will always have me favoring SRAM, as well as being able to swap and mix and match things easily.
the hood and shifter feel is always preference that has to do with hand size for sure, but yea if you do some homework you can find insane deals ons ram red right now, also I agree 10000 percent i forgot to mention I will choose sram all day for a bike build shimano is not hard it is just one less step with sram lol
sram looks bad ass with the silver but also the new force cranks with the black chairings look bad ass, if sram makes gold cassettes and chain it would be nice
Great video! Thank you, none of the riders i know using Di can explain the groups as well as you did, I often think it's a credit card thing, just go in shop and buy the latest. I've seen no one using SRAM,(likewise Campy too) that's sad, but once again it's about what's available in the shops. I personally don't want more batteries, enough issues with phones! but I do prefer Campy, then SRAM then Di, but won't turn down any if sponsored, I no longer race, long tours and sprints to my favorite French cafes & bakeries! So these groupsets are just showoff for me! :)
Definitely seen some frustration working with that sram FD. Occasionally throwing a chain, especially if your using the RD at the same time. All sram documentation was followed for installation but I was never fully satisfied.
I'm riding Sram Red at the moment. I got one of the first Sram groups back when they were mechanical but I think Shimano is great. I've never had a problem with my front shifter, even in the early days, but I think that comes down to working around it. I don't shift under power on the front, though I do keep some tension. Also, I'm serious about keeping my chain clean and lubed. *Immersive wax, then wax drip. Right now I've over 5000 miles on my chain and still not seeing wear. I test after I clean the chain but weird, right?
There are benefits to wire the shifters on dura ace: Exactly two bigs ones, and is why I go to dura ace. (I have both) 1 - No shifter button cells. I've experienced empty coin cells on AXS without any warning. 2 - 50% more range on a single charge. It last ages. So the fact that Shimano let me choose to run the shifters wireless or wired is a big plus for me. Front shifting performance is night and day. So if you go 1x then SRAM is the choice, but 2x. ... Shimano is the choice. And on a more personal subjective note the brake feel of the Shimano servos suits more my taste, but this is totally personal. Note, for Shimano charging is actually more convenient than SRAM. - You don't need a plug, you can use a power brick. and It will work amazing. - With a USB-C/USB-A OTG adapter you can charge your group on the road via your phone in an emergency (i.e: you forgot to charge). I will love to see shimano or any third party make a short cable with USB-C end that can plug directly to the phone without adapters.
my shimano rep was in the store and I asked him, what is the benefit of plugging in the shifters into the main battery, he said "literally nothing" no difference in shift speed yo jst get longer life of shifters and not have to worry about changing battery's, but I do not know what u mean 50 percent more range, that wouldn't make any sense, if anything the shifters would be pulling form that battery causing less range. I aks those questions when these reps come in, either this rep was not knowing but he seemed to know alot or its something he is unaware of it
I rode Dura Ace 9100 mechanical for the past 5 years, and just built a new bike with Red AXS because I love the idea of wireless shifting. I'm never going back to Shimano.
Sram are a little more innnovative, have an easier system to setup and an easier battery system to live with. However, if you can go through the pain of a DI2 setup and deal with annoyance of basically having to plug in your entire bike every 1000km or so, the shifting and braking is noticably better. Especially the front shifting, its quite a sizeable difference. I really like the Servo Wave brakes and personally prefer the hood ergonomics as well. I think the Hyperglide++ rear cassette is noticably better as well. I do prefer the way SRAM looks though, and I feel like the App is better as well. I think they offer a more sensible range of gear ratios as well for the most riders.
I’d say the shifting is better from shimano as well as the brakes but for me at least the quarq power meter with sram is soo much better than the shimano one
I have ETAP Force on my TCR and 105 Di2 on Defy. Both are good. But let’s not forget that during the pandemic it was next to impossible to get Shimano parts through retail and under warranty. SRAM parts were available. If I could only have one it would be ETAP
Thank you for at great review of the two group sets. You should have cheered for Vingegaard during the Tour de France but you get a second chance from today when Vuelta a Espana start today :-)
Have always been a Campy fan and love EPS4. But they lost me with the new wireless system because of the price so I will go (I hate to say it) shitemono but use Assioma power pedals.
Jumbo, along with every SRAM team in the tour right now, are not using this old version of SRAM. If you look closely at their setups, it is more reminiscent of the new SRAM Force AXS that came out earlier this year. Their shifters look entirely different than Red, their cranks along with their shifters just say 'SRAM' on them. The rear mech is about the only thing that looks to be the old RED AXS. Even the brake rotors look entirely different with a star shape. Check out GCN's rundown of one of Vingegaard's S5s.
so always for pros bikes they will always have the cranks only made for pros that say "sram" big on the side for marketing, you can not buy those as a consumer and only availed for pros, also the shifters are like the new force style shifter and they just replace the front carbon blade with red or team ones that say sram on there as well, this has always been like this for the longest time..... they put it on there for brand awareness
An absolutely fabulous video, thank you! I plan to make the jump from Ultegra mechanical to an electronic groupset after this current season. The comparison was incredibly valuable to me. After everything, I am learning towards SRAM, the fully wireless and the external battery setup is a big deal for me. I am also now seriously considering the 1x setup. Living in the Midwest, I am in my big ring 99% of the time, using my small ring is rare. With the wider range of rear cassette options that SRAM has, it would seem to be a logical choice to have the extra (bigger) cassette if/when the big hill days come around. I would likely be looking at the Force (or Ultegra) level group sets as the top-range really would not provide any benefits that would justify the price difference. Thanks again for a fantastic presentation!
Nice video. I would prefer Di2 but it's so expensive. Unfortunately, SRAM looks bulky and ugly and the front shifting is poor. However, my local shop says SRAM's rotors are more true out of the box. But this doesn't matter to me since I'm a rim brake guy. Why use a braking system that is heavier, less aerodynamic, harder to service, slower for wheel changes, more difficult to adjust on the fly, more expensive, more easily damaged in crashes, more likely to cause serious lacerations in group crashes, less clean aesthetically, and trickier to modulate due to added power at finger tips? We roadies do not have a braking problem. We have a very serious SKIDDING problem.
I like sram red I still wish I woulda got the green sl7 with sram but I wanted the red color since nobody really had it. SRAM just looks and seems cooler and newer lol
that green sowrks sl7 when it first relased was hands down one of the nicest colors they made and also underated, the chrome decal and the green looked like a lambo paint job
You're not the first person I hear saying that SRAM "is coming out with these hard to find wireless shifters". They're been available for a looong time, I've been using the Wireless Blips on my gravel bike. You can find them very easily online! They're very small and easy to place anywhere on the bike. I run TRP Hylex levers on my gravel bike with the Blips and it shifts as well as anything.
The Sram DOT fluid only expands if you dont maintain it, ie, if it needs to be bled. Shimano is excellent. And while the hoods are better for my hands now, there's still not enough room for my fingers on the bottom, between bar and lever. Sram hoods just barely have enough room. What makes me stick with Sram is the fact that I don't own a car at the moment and ride my bike everywhere. So I can take extra batteries with me, and for me that's a gigantic plus. But they really need to make bigger chainrings, not smaller. It also meshes nicely with my Garmin, super easy to pair, I can see each and every individual shift.
Am a fan of vingegard. Pogacar can be a bit arrogant sometimes and cycling is a nice sport for nice people :)) and thanks for the video. Very informative
SRAM. I do agree about the front derailleur and shifting underload. Hopefully the MTB Transmission tech for shifting underload will trickle "down" to road...MTB so lucky always get the latest tech first))
Would you prefer the gallows or the firing squad? I'd walk before I'd buy anything with SRAM's name on it. I'll ride Shimano if it's cheap enough, otherwise all Campagnolo all the time...though I must admit some their new stuff looks kind of like "Shimagnolo" to me :-)
I would buy the Sram Red just because it's better looking. I'm not going to win a stage in the Tour de France so might as well choose the better looking groupset.
the black shimano 9100 mechanic was amazing for me it felt very snapy and I loved that group those shifters were os clutch I had them on the first gen venge and absolutely loved them
I watched a video saying with shimano shifters plugged into the battery helped with a delay in shifting of the front derailleur. I haven't seen any testing to confirm it. Have you tried it yet?
i asked the rep this as soon as I heard you can plug them in, he told me 1000 percent it has no affect on how fast it shifts, it is the same speed as wireless
yea I have no idea what campy was doing I know there are patents and there is only os much they can do but the group is massive I dont know who made that and said yea people are gonna love this
I ride the force CX1 11 Groupset on my Gravelbike. Its, light and shifting is good (i like Sram Shifter) but bleeding the dot brakes is pita ... No reason to switch but on my next new (road) bike -shimano di2 only... I like the Sram MTB shifter and old red mech. Groupsets cause the parts are super light and looking much better than shimano...
I like the way the SRAM red works but it does not have the reliability. Mainly the rear mech fails just after the 2 year warranty. Has happened to me a 2 other club mates. You can be lucky and it will fail within the warranty.
Power meter is a deal breaker for me. Dura ace being so expensive and coming with a useless pm isn't acceptable. Even if other ones are available, I shouldn't have to source a different one just because shimano sells junk.
My Sram red power meter just failed, It was repaired under warrantee and It was changed to an all black chainring( Looks like a sram force) apparently they're all going to be an ALL BLACK chainring, it looks cheap. Very disappointed with SRAM
Would mix shimano and sram. Love sram range of gears, easy battery charge, setup/ travel with, and control center not in easy to destroy to place. Di2 control enter in rear derailleur bad idea for off tarmac riding and CX season. Would take the shimano battery life between charges, chainrings with front derailleur for better shifting, and brakes. Leaning towards shimano freehub as it more common than xdr to find replacement parts and cassettes for. Possible ltwoo electric due to price only. So ideal electric groupset would be a mix of all three.
Everything aspects for groupset shimano wins easily The only thing shimano lacks is power meter. Sram’s quarq power meter is great. Just buy the bike with power meter and ride no hassle. Anyway, does anybody have power meter recommendation for shimano?
How come you didn't mention the inherent shift delay issue on SRAM 2x setups? It's not something they can fix unless they change their shifter logic to something that utilises separate up/down controls for front and rear (like Shimano or Campag do).
@@GCPerformance18 they won't be able to fix it through an update, since it's a design issue. Same shifters control front and rear and delay allows the controller to recognise what to do - did the user press left/right or both at the same time - hence why this delay doesn't exist in 1x SRAM setups.
SRAM wireless looks great. Also SRAM power-meter integration seems to be far superior. But an important factor long-term is - which set has fewer bricking occurances, bugs, or errors?
Agree, what we need is a longterm test also from a bike mechanic perspective. In terms of cost you should also factor in maintenance and cost for replacing parts such as cassettes or chains/chainrings. Would be really interesting who is cheaper, or more reliable
I like sram wireless technology, flat top chain look, cassette, and crank set. But Shimano speed, hoods looks, and reliability are unbeatable. The day Shimano will have a full wireless group set, like sram they will not have anymore competitors
@@GCPerformance18campagnolo came out whit a full wireless like sram but it’s bulkier it’s massive I think sram, Shimano is already doing it will come with a slimmer versions
Is anyone aware of issues related to carbon chain rings? The load of a chain ring is different to a frame, so I don’t know if carbon will perform the same as a bike frame?
alot of people do and feel like a 4000 dollar group should be able to, even though we do not prefer it for sram red, shimano heavily encourages and says you wil get a better shift underload
I could talk bikes all day, let me know if you have any questions on these two groups or if you have anything to add as well or an experience you encountered that I did not mention in this video.
What gets Shimano over the line for me is the uncomplicates crank preload. SRAM and Campy have a system that creates drag in its design
Hey GC, I’ve experienced subtle chain noise/ excessive vibration in 1 or 2 select gears in middle range of cassette while setting up new bikes equipped Di2 Dura Ace and Ultegra. Straight hanger, much time dialing in micro adjustments. Have you ran into this issue before?
I really like the content of your videos, useful info & entertaining content, but it drives me batshit crazy that you upload in HDR!
I watch UA-cam on my living room home theater via an AppleTV. Nearly all HDTV’s blank out the screen for a few seconds every time the media switches between HDR & SDR, so after every ad & every startup of your video, the video & audio stream drops out for 3 - 5 seconds. You’re filming informal informational content, not high production value cinematic entertainment that would actually benefit from HDR.
By uploading in HDR, you are mentally & emotionally torturing every single one of your viewers who uses their HDR capable HDTV to watch UA-cam content.
Keep up the good content, but please stop with this HDR madness 😁
Can you pair 105 derailleurs to Ultegra shifters for more buttons?
@@DDSPL15what kind of tv do you have? I don’t have that issue.
I used to be a Dura Ace user. I liked the looks, the smaller levers, the smooth shifting, and the semi-auto mode. I had one bike that had Red on it and I grew to like it. I still don't like the bulbous hoods but I like the functionality and intuitiveness, press left to change left and right to go right. I also like it has two separate batteries in case you get in a jam. I like the wireless with no cable routing to mess with. I have had less issues with SRAM disc calipers as well. I have since converted all my bike to SRAM AXS from Rival to Red and I seem to have done it just in time for the Shimano recall. I am a SRAM convert now despite any of its flaws. If it's good enough for Sepp, it's way more than good enough for me.
My SRAM red axs has been amazing for the last 3 years. Been flawless. Love it.....also love di2 as well
very very nice
Shimano fan boy represent. If you know you know. 👌
SHIMANO FTW!
I can't complain with my Dura Ace Di2 9270 (humble brag) it shifts perfectly. Smooth as butter and quick af 😃
fuggin huge humble brag lol
@@GCPerformance18 😅 Did I mention I run DURA ACE?! 😂 (Internet peeps are gunna flame me now)
I just chose Dura Ace on my new BMC TeamMachine. I had SRAM Force on my past ride and decided to give Dura Ace a go. I think the main benefit is the braking improvments and the confiiguation of the buttons on the hoods for the Garmin head unit. Good video...! Thanks @FireChiefonaBike
My personal preference is the Dura-Ace, mainly for how it shifts and the programmability through the app and the extra buttons on the top of the hoods. Great comparison video.
yea shimano is the goat for me right now but maybe because sram red has been out for so long almoist 5 years so once they release something new it might blow shimano away
Easy to add buttons for sram. You can add 3 pairs of blips and put them wherever you want
@@GCPerformance18 nothing new from sram until end of 24
I prefer Shimano any day but SRAM is really good to.💯👌🏻
:)) I know how you feel about this lol
As far as the TDF, it has been great watching Pogačar and Vingegaard battle it out for the yellow jersey! Especially those sprints towards the end to gain few more seconds. But the TT performance that Vingegaard displayed in Stage 16 was truly amazing!! And the fact that he completed the whole stage without having to switch bikes shows the true power that he has.
Im old, and have owned Shimano for decades. Always done me right. Cheers .
shimano is the steady workhorse and has always been tried and true, but back in th epast like 2006 the tour was ran by sram red 10 speed double tap stuff all the pros wanted it, it was super light and i loved how efficient it worked, but shimano has always been known for that smooth cadilac shift and now with them being light sram has some catching up to do
For my ultegra 11 speed di2, I just plug the charger into a usb external battery (like I charge my phone with) and pop it in the bottle cage so that it's out the way and less of a trip hazard.
There IS a benefit to plugging the shifters in wired. You get greater battery life all round. More reliable and faster shifting
Also, you get to update the firmware of the entire groupset without having to hook it up to a computer. The STI levers require a wired connection for their firmware update.
Di2 hands down. Unless you’re noodling around on a flat bar and want to use XPLR rear derailleur with blips. Still Shimano brakes though.
Plastic spoke protector could be the main difference 😂 Great video 🎉
It took me quite a while to align my Red AXS front mech, but with the K-Edge catcher, I haven't dropped chain in over 10,000 miles. I used the SRAM alignment gauge and tested the hell out of it while it was in the work stand. I also used a 1.5mm hex key placed between the outer plate of the front mech and the crank arm at 12 o'clock. That really helped with the placement of the plastic wedge and the front mech straightness.
Totally agree about the hood ergonomics. I prefer the R9100 shifters (haven't run the newer R9200s) and the new Force AXS D2 shifters over the original Red AXS shifters from 2019.
Imagine needing a chain catcher on an electronic groupset 😂
So it's fine as long as you add an aftermarket chain catcher 😂😂😂
@@twillyspanksyourcakes you laugh but Soudal Quick Step use a chain catcher on the bikes too, even though they run Shimano.
@@Adonis-qj1nq Yeah that's 12s for you
@@twillyspanksyourcakes Shimano's front mechs are not nearly as sensitive to misalignment. I absolutely would _not_ use a SRAM eTAP front derailleur without a catcher. The original non-AXS eTAP front derailleurs from 2016 were just as difficult to setup and prone to derailments too. I haven't tried the 2023 SRAM Force AXS D2 front mech. Apparently, SRAM has made some improvements.
My take on SRAM is the ability to do micro adjustments on the rear derailleur while riding plus the benefit of having a function button on each derailleur for shifting gears while doing maintenance!
You can micro adjust Shimano on the move and have been able to before SRAM electronic shifting even existed.
@@TrickyTree84on the new 12 speed that isn’t available, since they moved the controller to the rear derailleur instead of the button on your handlebar or under stem
@@MJarthur95 oh ok. Fair enough. Can't say I've ever done it anyway. I do it it the workstand. I'm sure if this was a big deal they could add this via firmware.
New dura ace is a machine gun !! And the brakes are fabulous !!!
I have both but I prefer shimano di2 12 speed ultegra/dura ace
very nice!!
@GCPerformance18 im with you bro..shimano all the way..lol..looks better too
Hey GC, DA has been out since August 2021… feels like it’s only been a bit but it’s been two years, crazy! Nice video👍
since you said that man it feels like my life is flying by lol, its like im in this bike part bubble, that shit is crazy to me!! thansk for the info and the correction
I have 3 bikes all with AXS Sram.....just love the simplicity!
I may be in the minority but I prefer the bulky (or as I like to say, substantial) feel of the Red shifters...I feel like I can more easily get a 90 degree elbow bend and stay in that "aero in the hoods" position with less discomfort and more confidence in my grip, and I don't have very big hands.
From a consumer standpoint, I feel like since Red has been on the market longer, you are able to get better deals on new components compared to Shimano when it comes to new take off/second hand/etc markets. I was able to get RD, Brakes/Calipers/Shifters/Crank Arms for less than Force Retail price by being an ebay prowler.
From a home mechanic standpoint, the ease of installation will always have me favoring SRAM, as well as being able to swap and mix and match things easily.
the hood and shifter feel is always preference that has to do with hand size for sure, but yea if you do some homework you can find insane deals ons ram red right now, also I agree 10000 percent i forgot to mention I will choose sram all day for a bike build shimano is not hard it is just one less step with sram lol
Shimano group all day, however with a SRAM Red crank-chainset ... I have one of my bikes set up that way and definitely like it.
sram looks bad ass with the silver but also the new force cranks with the black chairings look bad ass, if sram makes gold cassettes and chain it would be nice
Great video! Thank you, none of the riders i know using Di can explain the groups as well as you did, I often think it's a credit card thing, just go in shop and buy the latest. I've seen no one using SRAM,(likewise Campy too) that's sad, but once again it's about what's available in the shops. I personally don't want more batteries, enough issues with phones! but I do prefer Campy, then SRAM then Di, but won't turn down any if sponsored, I no longer race, long tours and sprints to my favorite French cafes & bakeries! So these groupsets are just showoff for me! :)
Definitely seen some frustration working with that sram FD. Occasionally throwing a chain, especially if your using the RD at the same time. All sram documentation was followed for installation but I was never fully satisfied.
Dura Ace 9100. Get it while it's available / cheap somewhere (good luck though as it's either not available or not cheap).
The benefit of wiring wireless shimano shifters to the battery is longer runs between charges (about 50% according to the manual).
but you have to recharge
you don't need a wall connector for shimano charging, you can use power bank everywhere
yea but then you need a power bank and to charge that, and also you can use a power bank for sram red, but its one extra step to charge a power bank
Dura ace is the better one but personally I prefer sram red because of the way it looks it’s just so aesthetically pleasing
I like the look of durace but this will always be preference
I'm riding Sram Red at the moment. I got one of the first Sram groups back when they were mechanical but I think Shimano is great. I've never had a problem with my front shifter, even in the early days, but I think that comes down to working around it. I don't shift under power on the front, though I do keep some tension. Also, I'm serious about keeping my chain clean and lubed. *Immersive wax, then wax drip. Right now I've over 5000 miles on my chain and still not seeing wear. I test after I clean the chain but weird, right?
There are benefits to wire the shifters on dura ace: Exactly two bigs ones, and is why I go to dura ace. (I have both)
1 - No shifter button cells. I've experienced empty coin cells on AXS without any warning.
2 - 50% more range on a single charge. It last ages.
So the fact that Shimano let me choose to run the shifters wireless or wired is a big plus for me.
Front shifting performance is night and day. So if you go 1x then SRAM is the choice, but 2x. ... Shimano is the choice.
And on a more personal subjective note the brake feel of the Shimano servos suits more my taste, but this is totally personal.
Note, for Shimano charging is actually more convenient than SRAM.
- You don't need a plug, you can use a power brick. and It will work amazing.
- With a USB-C/USB-A OTG adapter you can charge your group on the road via your phone in an emergency (i.e: you forgot to charge). I will love to see shimano or any third party make a short cable with USB-C end that can plug directly to the phone without adapters.
my shimano rep was in the store and I asked him, what is the benefit of plugging in the shifters into the main battery, he said "literally nothing" no difference in shift speed yo jst get longer life of shifters and not have to worry about changing battery's, but I do not know what u mean 50 percent more range, that wouldn't make any sense, if anything the shifters would be pulling form that battery causing less range. I aks those questions when these reps come in, either this rep was not knowing but he seemed to know alot or its something he is unaware of it
i've heard that even the new sram force disc calipers are still inferior to even a shimano 105 disc caliper.
@@GCPerformance18 Shimano reps are sales people. It is a fact that wired Shimano 12 speed battery longevity is better.
@@GCPerformance18I would assume that the extra range when running fully wired comes from the main battery not needing to power the wireless receiver.
SRAM red for my last two bikes and always a pleasure. I’d go Durace next just to try it and switch things up
sram red is super nice when setup properly
I rode Dura Ace 9100 mechanical for the past 5 years, and just built a new bike with Red AXS because I love the idea of wireless shifting. I'm never going back to Shimano.
Sram are a little more innnovative, have an easier system to setup and an easier battery system to live with.
However, if you can go through the pain of a DI2 setup and deal with annoyance of basically having to plug in your entire bike every 1000km or so, the shifting and braking is noticably better. Especially the front shifting, its quite a sizeable difference. I really like the Servo Wave brakes and personally prefer the hood ergonomics as well. I think the Hyperglide++ rear cassette is noticably better as well.
I do prefer the way SRAM looks though, and I feel like the App is better as well. I think they offer a more sensible range of gear ratios as well for the most riders.
On a Tri Rig I’m going SRAM all of the way mainly for a ton less wires and much easier installation and up to 6 remote wireless blips.
I’d say the shifting is better from shimano as well as the brakes but for me at least the quarq power meter with sram is soo much better than the shimano one
I preferd Sram Red for the look but Shimano for the price but i have Sram and i love it 😊❤
sram red cranks look so nice, really draw in someone to your bike for the chrome look
Im a new sram red axs user. I find it to be fantastic. Couldnt ask for more.
awesome!!! it is a great platform
I have ETAP Force on my TCR and 105 Di2 on Defy. Both are good. But let’s not forget that during the pandemic it was next to impossible to get Shimano parts through retail and under warranty. SRAM parts were available. If I could only have one it would be ETAP
yea sram dominated the pandemic time
Thank you for at great review of the two group sets. You should have cheered for Vingegaard during the Tour de France but you get a second chance from today when Vuelta a Espana start today :-)
hahahaha, no im going for my boy remco
Have always been a Campy fan and love EPS4. But they lost me with the new wireless system because of the price so I will go (I hate to say it) shitemono but use Assioma power pedals.
yea campy is always one of those groups that I do not see in my store and also I dont like the battery or the brakes to be honest
Jumbo, along with every SRAM team in the tour right now, are not using this old version of SRAM. If you look closely at their setups, it is more reminiscent of the new SRAM Force AXS that came out earlier this year. Their shifters look entirely different than Red, their cranks along with their shifters just say 'SRAM' on them. The rear mech is about the only thing that looks to be the old RED AXS. Even the brake rotors look entirely different with a star shape. Check out GCN's rundown of one of Vingegaard's S5s.
so always for pros bikes they will always have the cranks only made for pros that say "sram" big on the side for marketing, you can not buy those as a consumer and only availed for pros, also the shifters are like the new force style shifter and they just replace the front carbon blade with red or team ones that say sram on there as well, this has always been like this for the longest time..... they put it on there for brand awareness
At the rear they are similar; but sram front derailleur simply can’t match shimano
Shimano ultegra Mech for the win baby!
If my own money neither of those. Ultegra 12spd and better wheelset or power meter for the price difference
Ive been using both sram red and shimano d12 12 speed..i never had a problem with shimano and a few problems with Sram..
An absolutely fabulous video, thank you! I plan to make the jump from Ultegra mechanical to an electronic groupset after this current season. The comparison was incredibly valuable to me. After everything, I am learning towards SRAM, the fully wireless and the external battery setup is a big deal for me. I am also now seriously considering the 1x setup. Living in the Midwest, I am in my big ring 99% of the time, using my small ring is rare. With the wider range of rear cassette options that SRAM has, it would seem to be a logical choice to have the extra (bigger) cassette if/when the big hill days come around. I would likely be looking at the Force (or Ultegra) level group sets as the top-range really would not provide any benefits that would justify the price difference. Thanks again for a fantastic presentation!
Great video, id like to see a comparison between dura ace, Ultegra & 105 as price is quite a lot cheaper.
once I get anohter full durace group in stock I will do a video side by side of weight and price dura ace and ultegra
Nice video. I would prefer Di2 but it's so expensive. Unfortunately, SRAM looks bulky and ugly and the front shifting is poor. However, my local shop says SRAM's rotors are more true out of the box. But this doesn't matter to me since I'm a rim brake guy. Why use a braking system that is heavier, less aerodynamic, harder to service, slower for wheel changes, more difficult to adjust on the fly, more expensive, more easily damaged in crashes, more likely to cause serious lacerations in group crashes, less clean aesthetically, and trickier to modulate due to added power at finger tips? We roadies do not have a braking problem. We have a very serious SKIDDING problem.
I like sram red I still wish I woulda got the green sl7 with sram but I wanted the red color since nobody really had it. SRAM just looks and seems cooler and newer lol
that green sowrks sl7 when it first relased was hands down one of the nicest colors they made and also underated, the chrome decal and the green looked like a lambo paint job
You're not the first person I hear saying that SRAM "is coming out with these hard to find wireless shifters". They're been available for a looong time, I've been using the Wireless Blips on my gravel bike. You can find them very easily online! They're very small and easy to place anywhere on the bike. I run TRP Hylex levers on my gravel bike with the Blips and it shifts as well as anything.
I just odnt like the one time use thing and I still find them to be bulky for what they are
both are perfect! no complains...
yea I mean honestly I would take either or lol I would just be happy to have either for those prices
The Sram DOT fluid only expands if you dont maintain it, ie, if it needs to be bled. Shimano is excellent. And while the hoods are better for my hands now, there's still not enough room for my fingers on the bottom, between bar and lever. Sram hoods just barely have enough room. What makes me stick with Sram is the fact that I don't own a car at the moment and ride my bike everywhere. So I can take extra batteries with me, and for me that's a gigantic plus. But they really need to make bigger chainrings, not smaller. It also meshes nicely with my Garmin, super easy to pair, I can see each and every individual shift.
Great review Matt. I’ve had them both and I’m a Shimano fan and feel it performs better
Grant. I’m sorry
hahah no problem!!
thank yo so much!!!
Am a fan of vingegard. Pogacar can be a bit arrogant sometimes and cycling is a nice sport for nice people :)) and thanks for the video. Very informative
vingegard, is so professional, the man is just a machine gets on the bike puts in work and ges better every time
That SL looks sick great video:D
:)) thank you!!
"Comfortablility". Love it.
hahaha
9200 is almost 2 years old already 😅
I knowwww thats crazy it feels like jsut yesterday it came out
SRAM. I do agree about the front derailleur and shifting underload. Hopefully the MTB Transmission tech for shifting underload will trickle "down" to road...MTB so lucky always get the latest tech first))
You said Vingegaard really well, better than most
aww thanks man!!!
Is that an S-Works pie plate. I heard they're making a comeback in professional cycling for 2024
I have the 11 speed dura ace that came with my sl7 sworks and recently bought sram force for my gravel bike, I like sram.
You are AWESOME! I love your video! If you have the new Sram Force and can you compare to the Sram Red or Ultegra Di2 12s it's perfect!
yes thanks so much!!! I will get right on it!!!
Would you prefer the gallows or the firing squad? I'd walk before I'd buy anything with SRAM's name on it. I'll ride Shimano if it's cheap enough, otherwise all Campagnolo all the time...though I must admit some their new stuff looks kind of like "Shimagnolo" to me :-)
no way, I hate campy for me, but honestly it comes down to preference
SRAM Red AXS full build with RIVAL Shifters is the best Combo to get ...
After owning both groups, I will say that the Shimano 12 is the better buy. Full wireless is nice but Shimano shifting is superior.
yes I think shimano right now has an edge on sram which they should being that shimano just launched it 2 years ago and sram has been out for 5
my friend's sram red RD broke down after 4 years. it was electronic problem
damn that sucks have hjim hit up waranty
top of the linee!! im curious on what is going to happen with the new sram red udh road? what u think gc?
:)) I cant wait to be hoenst, i think they will go this route usually they like ot keep everything the same so they will remove the hanger for red
I would buy the Sram Red just because it's better looking. I'm not going to win a stage in the Tour de France so might as well choose the better looking groupset.
really? I think shimano wins in that department but I mean people like different things lol
@@GCPerformance18 😆
Basically it's Shimano for racing and Sram for everybody else in a nut shell
TJV seems to do pretty well on it for racing
literally the top rider in the world right now is running sram
Shimano mechanical dura ace FTW
the black shimano 9100 mechanic was amazing for me it felt very snapy and I loved that group those shifters were os clutch I had them on the first gen venge and absolutely loved them
@@GCPerformance18 i got it on one of my bikes. I could never “upgrade” that groupset to electronic. Soo damn sexy
I watched a video saying with shimano shifters plugged into the battery helped with a delay in shifting of the front derailleur. I haven't seen any testing to confirm it. Have you tried it yet?
i asked the rep this as soon as I heard you can plug them in, he told me 1000 percent it has no affect on how fast it shifts, it is the same speed as wireless
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it
Best two groupsets in the world.
Campag has completely left the picture already.
yea I have no idea what campy was doing I know there are patents and there is only os much they can do but the group is massive I dont know who made that and said yea people are gonna love this
Dura ace just looks way better, I agree a lighter crank would be amazing
crazy they rn a 24mm spindle and stil no carbon
I've forgotten my battery 3 times this year; however I still prefer the Red groupset :-)
Got the dork disc on an S-works!
hahahahha I leave it on for the dentist
I ride the force CX1 11 Groupset on my Gravelbike. Its, light and shifting is good (i like Sram Shifter) but bleeding the dot brakes is pita ... No reason to switch but on my next new (road) bike -shimano di2 only... I like the Sram MTB shifter and old red mech. Groupsets cause the parts are super light and looking much better than shimano...
I like the way the SRAM red works but it does not have the reliability. Mainly the rear mech fails just after the 2 year warranty. Has happened to me a 2 other club mates. You can be lucky and it will fail within the warranty.
Regarding the Sram bulky hoods, I find then safe to hold when decending at speed for aero gains 😅
yea this is for sure a preference feel, some people enjoy the smaller hoods cause they have smaller hands and can get a better grip around it
Power meter is a deal breaker for me. Dura ace being so expensive and coming with a useless pm isn't acceptable. Even if other ones are available, I shouldn't have to source a different one just because shimano sells junk.
R9270 on my bike, I might give Sram Red a shot if I decided to go 1x.
I prefer shimano for weight, operation, shifting, BUT..the SRAM has better power meter 🫣
sram for sure, the quarq is so reliable I love it
Haven't tried sram, i would love to ride sram , shimano, campy back to back.
Neither. 1000 euros more for 150 grams or thereabouts less and equal performance to Ultegra is a big no.
My Sram red power meter just failed, It was repaired under warrantee and It was changed to an all black chainring( Looks like a sram force) apparently they're all going to be an ALL BLACK chainring, it looks cheap. Very disappointed with SRAM
they are the same weight and they do not have anymore sram red chairing because the new sram red is going to be released soon for rumors
Being Left-handed, Shimano is the only option.
Being able to eat/drink and shift into an easier gear is a great selling point for lefties.
That was a very detailed and informative video. Thanks!
Thank you very much for watching and I am happy u enjoyed
Would mix shimano and sram. Love sram range of gears, easy battery charge, setup/ travel with, and control center not in easy to destroy to place. Di2 control enter in rear derailleur bad idea for off tarmac riding and CX season. Would take the shimano battery life between charges, chainrings with front derailleur for better shifting, and brakes. Leaning towards shimano freehub as it more common than xdr to find replacement parts and cassettes for. Possible ltwoo electric due to price only. So ideal electric groupset would be a mix of all three.
Can’t wait to install this Di2 group set on to Canyon Aeroad CFR.
hell yea
Everything aspects for groupset shimano wins easily
The only thing shimano lacks is power meter.
Sram’s quarq power meter is great.
Just buy the bike with power meter and ride no hassle.
Anyway, does anybody have power meter recommendation for shimano?
Great video! But I wonder where does the Campy Super record EPS fits in the competition? their newest gen just came out not long ago.
not that good, there is to little of it for it to have a say right now, look at the tour, only one team riding it right now
How come you didn't mention the inherent shift delay issue on SRAM 2x setups? It's not something they can fix unless they change their shifter logic to something that utilises separate up/down controls for front and rear (like Shimano or Campag do).
I mentioned they are slower thenn shimano and no adjustment on the app, they need to update the firmware to make it a little quicker
@@GCPerformance18 they won't be able to fix it through an update, since it's a design issue. Same shifters control front and rear and delay allows the controller to recognise what to do - did the user press left/right or both at the same time - hence why this delay doesn't exist in 1x SRAM setups.
SRAM wireless looks great. Also SRAM power-meter integration seems to be far superior. But an important factor long-term is - which set has fewer bricking occurances, bugs, or errors?
Agree, what we need is a longterm test also from a bike mechanic perspective. In terms of cost you should also factor in maintenance and cost for replacing parts such as cassettes or chains/chainrings. Would be really interesting who is cheaper, or more reliable
The newly released Sram Force crankset looks so much better.
oh yea the black is so much sleeker
Thanks! Great info!
bro what!!! stoppppp lol im gonna remove this feature cauise of you lol
D fly buttons make a huge difference
for me I dont use them as much as I thought I would
@@GCPerformance18I find it quite useful scrolling down pages and lapping
I like sram wireless technology, flat top chain look, cassette, and crank set. But Shimano speed, hoods looks, and reliability are unbeatable. The day Shimano will have a full wireless group set, like sram they will not have anymore competitors
Yea sram has nice looks like the flat top chain but I like the SHIMANO hoods and shifting
@@GCPerformance18campagnolo came out whit a full wireless like sram but it’s bulkier it’s massive I think sram, Shimano is already doing it will come with a slimmer versions
very informative. I cringed a little when I heard comfortability, but soldiered on
Is anyone aware of issues related to carbon chain rings? The load of a chain ring is different to a frame, so I don’t know if carbon will perform the same as a bike frame?
yes I am not saying carbon chainring, but carbon crank arms, like sram has
I've never shift from inside chain ring to outside under load.
alot of people do and feel like a 4000 dollar group should be able to, even though we do not prefer it for sram red, shimano heavily encourages and says you wil get a better shift underload
Shimano Di2 is great on my Trek