For those asking, I use 'Standard'. But, I accept a variety of connections/quality so I can see how good the netcode is. There's a lot of competition right now, so the majority of your matches will be 5-bar. But in a year, that will thin out dramatically, and the option for pristine connections will wither away. By accepting a variety, we're getting a better idea at how good the netcode of the game actually is. Good news, it's decent.
It’s pretty good between 3-5 bars if its wired. But i don’t think i will accept wi-fi players for much longer ngl. If it’s 4 bar, its usually a tragedy, and even 5 bar feels like a lottery. It either has a few hiccups or it goes to 1-3 bar in a few seconds and stays there for the whole match.
THEY ARE DEFINITELY HAVING SOME PROBLEMS BALANCING THE "RIFT" AS EVEN ON GOOD CONNECTIONS INSTEAD OF GIVING A BIG ROLLBACK, IT MICRO FREEZES, WHICH IT SHOULD NOT DO WITH ROLLBACK NETCODE, SO SOMETHING IN THEIR NETCODE IS OFF. =)
Why do we as consumers have to worry about it to begin with? I'd imagine they could dynamically adjust this setting automatically on per-round basis. On top of that, it feels like FG is still stuck in the 90s even with rollback, because they make you worry about your opponent's connection/pc performance which you have no control over. Imagine having lags in 64 people battlefield 2 matches, because someone's computer cant handle solid 60 fps - that'd be ridiculous! (And before someone says it, no - the fact that the game is host based is not pathalogical, Destiny 2 is also host based in PvP and you do see laggy people there, sure, but their lag puts them into diadvantage, not you. But a dedicated server per match would be ideal, although I'm not sure the running expenses would be justified)
Finally someone who explained it properly instead of the typical “you need response in Tekken bruv, choose that option bruv, response is everything bruv”
Vsync? But without vsync it looks torn. Plus it's just a graphic setting. I did hear there was something like this tho. I'd really like to understand the reason
One thing a lot of people don't understand about delay-based netcode is that having input delay isn't inherently bad, if it's consistent. The thing about delay-based that makes people tear their hair out is when the connection stutters and both sides have to wait for it to come back, which throws off the timing of inputs. Including some input delay in your rollback netcode isn't intrusive, because the rollback is still doing its main job of smoothing out the connection.
No you always want 0 delay frames, it does not benefit the player at all to add delay except the visual difference. instead of them teleporting 2 frames you are delayed 2 frames which is no difference mechanically. the problem arises when those two frames that are cut off are non reactable frames, in this scenario you react at the same point but now i have 2 frames of delay. so added delay is either the same outcome but smoother looking or in many situations its completely worse and causes your reactions to be slower, it is definitively never better in any scenario. always always have 0 and simply dont play people that are not close because even if you play them with delay frames its still horrible its just visually hidden, id still rather play far matches at 0 because it only shows itself during their actions vs me feeling underwater always and being forced to react slower in cases where the frames that got cut off werent a visual tell
@@rampagerhino5434 Do you ever think that maybe you just have a harder time recognizing visual tells on startup because you're used to the game cutting off the first couple of frames on every move?
@@VannTango No in most games first startup frames just have no tell you can look at frame viewers to see this, prejump and nearly any moves first couple frames are just the character starting to transition out of idle, you lose these frames needlessly to delay when you delay out the teleportation for the sake of smooth looking visuals and therefore react slower
@@rampagerhino5434 This is so naive... If you always want 0 delay frames, but delay frames don't differ mechanically from frames that roll back (which is a dishonest way of framing it, since rollback is much rougher to feel AND look at) then what's the point of the rest of the things you wrote?? In old days players competed, for money, with setups with WAY more input delay frames than we're used to nowadays. You can't just pretend that didn't happen bro. Big part of that came internally from the old consoles. 0 delay frames is a complete cope pipe dream. Some delay is required for good rollback, and good netplay experience overall. My point is your premise of "it does not benefit the player to add delay" is just wrong. It's not going to negatively impact player experience to have 1 extra frame of input delay if it's consistent. But you remove that one frame and suddenly your shit is teleporting everywhere, great. Add that to the fact that people have been competing with WAYYY more than 1 frame of input delay, and you'll realize that it's in fact GOOD for the gameplay experience.
Spawn camping is evolving to new levels, and having AI makes it harder than ever to moderate. I'd imagine Max putting all the emojis into the auto-flagging list. But the Doods who would do it earnestly are undoubtedly getting false-positive stray shots from the auto turret if Max ever sets this up in this way, lol.
The insane Input delay in Tekken Tag 2 was something I only experienced whenever I switch to another output device (TV, monitor, etc.) and then about half an hour later, it's gone. Tekken Tag 2's input delay is slightly lesser on the Xbox One than on the Xbox 360.
I don't remember off the top of my head head what my setting are. I do know that even though I usually avoid wifi players as a rule, most of the times I fought them the whole set would go by and I'd forget they were on wifi. A stable wifi match would happen once every blue moon in Tekken 7.
I learned this lesson during the beta. During the first couple days of the beta I thought the netcode needed a LOT of work. People were so stuttery it was VERY ROUGH. Then for the last day and a half I realized I had instantly set my rollback to prioritize response. I put it on standard and it looked so much better
Well there you go. Devs put a standard setting that they recommend, just use it for the most balanced experience. Only change it if you encounter issues.
it wouldn't just be the opponents character jumping around as it has to register whether or not something has been blocked or interrupted or whatever other way they interact with your input. Everything will jump if the connection is bad and you are prioritizing response.
The response setting is probably great in Japan and South Korea..maybe some parts of Western Europe? But the rest of us need some delay frames as a buffer. Great explanation.
Imagine thinking 3 frames is not a big deal when it literally means if you beat the opponent to the punch based on visual response from the human eye that we like to call... hand eye coordination.
Prioritise response is a blessing. But Standard is also great. The fact the game can be adjusted to suit the distance is great. Plus I'm happy to hear max still brings up K.i because that game still has the best rollback on the Market.
If you're regularly playing on locals then you should definitely use prioritize response on a game that had such tight timing on difficult combos and just frame moves so that your input timing won't be messed up
If you're playing on PC, the input delay of the game itself is already significantly lower than console, so if you plan to play on those systems for offline events and what not, to have the most standardized experience you should have it on Standard or even Prioritize Fluidity anyway.
Not by much. It’s 1 frame difference if you turn off V-sync off. PS5 has 58 ms response, Xbox SX has 57 ms. PC without V-sync has 42. It’s just 1 one frame. Source is Digital Foundry.
That's performance issues on their end. Usually PC players, there's an indicator in the bottom right corner (separate from the connection indicator) that shows PC player's performance. It'll be red or flickering red if they can't handle running the game.
When 2 people have diff settings it chooses the higher df\ID one. So If you set to Fluid, your opponent is too even if its on standard\Response. I think you should of explained that to people so they understand this. What it means is you should be practicing with Fluidity to get used to it so your not thrown off by people who do go into their options and choose it.
I just wish they would let us manually set our delay, so I could make it a consistent 2 or 3 frames of delay like KI or Strive and be done with it. I understand that they probably don't trust people to have that level of control since many won't understand it, but still it would be nice to have like an "advanced rollback settings" menu with a disclaimer about how it can mess up the experience if you don't know what you're doing.
2:00 Tekken has has "real" rollback since it went online in T5. It just increased input delay much quicker than it does now in T8, that's the only difference. In like T5 it started to increase input delay at like ping 32, now it starts to increase input delay at ping 100 when you have prioritize responsiveness. That's the only difference in the netcode.
1:56 If the stuttering in this clip is caused by rollbacks happening, why is the stuttering happening during a throw animation? It should be the same canned animation on both ends. It's more likely that a desync is happening due to one player's computer struggling to render the flashy animation on Victor's throw.
It's not rollback. Just look at the processor icons turning RED on both sides, that indicates that the pc is not being able to render it properly. In that case it was because the effects are probaly at maximum settings.
My laptop is stronger than my PC and for the first week of T8, I didn’t know my laptop had an Ethernet port while my desktop couldn’t launch it so I suffered a lot the first week with poor online. Wired when it’s an available option will always be superior to the same connection wireless. That said, I accept every match anyway cause I just wanna play and overall it feels just as good as 7 but with cross play
downside... if u only willing to take perfect connections.. you wait longer than others to find matches. 3 to 5 bars ethernet is fine for me. For wifi its strictly 4 and above.
I don't see anything bots spamming comments so idk why people keep saying it. I literally only see a handful a comments and they are ALL complaining about bots
If you try to scroll down to the bottom where the comments that get thumbed down to hell lives, then you'll see them (currently 2 left). The bots just sound try-hardy trying to act like human and even put emojis. lol
@@FahmiZFX Yeah, and it's always a close up shot of a girls ass or crotch for the pfp. I honestly don't get the reason behind it. Do they have channels that they want people to click on. Imma find out. . . Ok, so yeah they have a few shorts on the channel, it's a scantily clad woman dancing and it says 'get in touch with me in the comments'. SO I assume the scam is, thirsty dudes reach out to the bot account at which point some real person jumps in and tries to trick them into giving them money or whatever credit card info etc. The sad part is, it must work sometimes or you wouldn't see them all over the place.
@AlhpaNewusOmega That means enough people reported them quickly enough. That said, i don't know why i seems to see more of them in FGC videos in particular.
For me (i only accept 5 bar wired connections) response is WAY better. I have very few issues with it and the few janky connections i had are still deffo worth it for the insanely low input delay
From my experience standard is usually 0 delay frames in good connections and 1 in meh connections. That 1 frame makes a huge difference in meh connections. Standard has been way better for me, but I only search for 5 bars since 4 is 100+ ms which is ridiculous
Hmm, I've been running response because that seemed to be the consensus but I've been seeing a lot of weird behavior where stuff just stops or does things that don't match up. Didn't think about this so will have to experiment with the other settings and see how that goes. Would explain a lot based on Max's description. Would be nice if they give the netcode another pass at some point because it's 'good enough' but still definitely behind compared to what other games are doing.
So here's the REAL question: If you're set to Fluidity, and the other guy's set to Resonse, are you at a disadvantage? Or is it the same, just that you're not seeing the stuttery junk?
Got into Orange ranks last night and it's become very difficult finding matches that are non wifi warriors. I played only 3 matches in 15 mins of looking not including time inside a match.
@@sonysdad4709 You can tell. There's 2 different symbols that come with every match. If it's 5 lines in a vertical ascending from left to right it's a hardliners connection. If it's a buncha half bent lines that looks like a Soundwave it's wi-fi.
@@meteor22 I know what the visual difference is if you’re looking but the feel of the match is pretty much the same at least right now while the player count is at a high since they can match better
im sure its relevant in the states but in europe where fiber is the standard responsive works as intended, at least with me also i have 1gb wired fiber.
Dunno if I get an answer, but how do these come in play when playing on lan? Of course there is no connection issues while on lan, so wondering what of these would best suite to practice for an offline event? Standard/fluidity?
I've been using Response and sometimes it can be bad now that i think about it, i've literally had opponents going from neutral to snake edge, makes it sort of unseeable But well, i'm also playing on south america so i can't trust the other person's connection
If you changes to prioritise fluidity you would see the whole snake edge and react in time but your inputs would be so delayed you would still get hit anyway, it might even make the reaction slower
i was struggling in ranked against fujins when i knew i wasn't doing too bad myself. something always felt off and wrong. thanks to you, i finally understand why.
2:40 "My guess it that it's 3-ish frames, maybe 4-ish frames" No, this is wrong. Standard just means that the game starts to increase input delay at ping 82. So at ping 80 it's still delay 0, at ping 82 it's additional delay of 1 frame. With prioritize responsiveness it starts to increase input delay at ping 100, that's the only difference between the 2. How do I know? I've seen it in the game code(in the x64 assembly) when I reversed it. The game has 2 frames of built-in input delay but it has nothing to do with online/network, it has to do with with how the game tick function works and with how they schedule animations when inputs are processed. This delay can be decreased, which I did in T7 in Tekken Overlay, and it has nothing to do with network.
Sort of off topic, but is there a..suddenly can't remember the term.. Release check option? I feel like certain quarter circle moves are messing up and I'm not sure if it's my controller or the system. Can't seem to find an option for it but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.
Ive never heard of that. But some quarter circles work different from others. For example, bryan and paul enter a STANCE when they do QCF and QCB, so as soon as that input is in, you are locked into that stance meaning if you are pressing QCB+ 2 while still holding the f, it will work. And if you wait until after the QCB is fully done it will still work. But with some characters if you press while they are on the "B" of QCB, it will just be a back+2 and not a QCB + 2, since you have to press after its let go. Prime example is a Steve throw, its QCB2+4. But B2+4 is a parry. You will get the parry if you don't let go of the QCB, since Steve does not have a stance for QCB.
You can't buffer quarter circle motions with characters like Paul/ nina It's considered a stance for them, you have to wait for the previous move recovery to end
@@IAMOP oh no, I didn't mean as a buffer, but in general. The mortal Kombat games usually release with the controls in an odd state that has to be changed. Just trying to see if that's the issue I'm having but I don't think so
@@amitypredator9385 MK lets you switch from true quarter-circles to down-forward (no Diagonals needed) Release check is a Killer instinct thing afaik, it lets you do negative edge specials. none of that is in tekken 8 tho
Nicely Explained Max. I've Played the Full Release for the First Time the other Day, I am pants so i got blown up lol but anyway i always accept any Connection, just too get more Matches, i probably Played 20 Matches and i got very Laggy Match, I guy gave up n let me Win and i got Spammed Out in one Match, Overall tho the Online for Tekken 8 is looking very good.
bro at 4:24 ive had that exact thing happen on T7. It said KO for ME and then my health went right back up and i had already relaxed and got hit again from not blocking.
Just to let you know there are now people abusing this. They use a bad connection set input delay and spam semi safe moves making it nearly impossible to punish or juggle combos. Played a dude who was at 220 ping and the game ran smooth as hell, like hell could I punish a damn thing though
Only Harada said that and others repeated it. 3D netcode has already been implemented in fightcade with previous 3D games, including past Tekkens. And well before that, shooters which operated in a 3D environment, have had solid netcode for decades.
They all double edged swords. Fluidity, everything is more easy to see, but harder to react. Prioritize response, everything is harder to see, but more easier to react. What's more important to you? Standard tries to balance all of that
I was wondering, when we talk about frames, what is the rate? Cause we don't specify for each game, but still, not all games run on the same fram rate. So, do we adopt a universal metric like 24 or 30 fps or do we just switch willy nilly from each games rate to rate, meaning when we say 1 frame it can be more important in one game than it is in another?
Prioritize Fluidity vs Wifi makes it ALMOST playable. when they usually have a huge hitch it slows the game fps and speed to make sure that huge hitch doesnt happen. It saved me in matches much more than seeing huge freezes from wifi
It depends on what move. But generally, if you are not relying on visual information to do the input, it will work no matter how many frames of delay. Like an electric, or bryan Taunt b4, or lee's acid rain, if your hands do the right timing, it will always come out. But if you are trying to sync up your input with something visually, like trying to block-punish with electric, or trying to press b4 on bryan's taunt based on when you SEE it hit, it will get messed up by the frame delay.
doesn't matter, if you do the same input the same move's gonna come out on both. the only difference is that on responsiveness, it comes out sooner, and on fluidity, it comes out later but there's less stutter/cut off animation startups/teleporting around on the opponent's side edit: yeah as the others said if you are using on-screen cues to time your inputs then it DOES matter
I always play on Standard because frankly I'm not a total perfectionist snob who sees anything above one frame of delay and calls the cops. 3 to 4 frames is perfectly workable AND it means that you don't need to be within a stone's throw fucking distance of the opponent to get good games. Hell, with Standard I've even had solid games with most of the wi-fi players I've played.
I think a Jin player tried to mix me today with throws 30 times in one match, now I'm pretty good at breaking throws luckily but with 3-4 frames of delay I would've kissed my ass goodbye.
For someone who has to use WiFi, but I have a 200mbps connection, which should I use? My first fight ended when I started winning against another WiFi user. Not sure if it was me or just a rage quit. I’ve been intimidated to go online cause I can’t directly connect
You need to make sure there are no Interference with signals and set it up as such. Also adjust antenna in a way that it maximises range. If you can't go wired that is. If possible use fiber internet.
Is there a setting to get wired only connections? If I don't accept WiFi players I'll just be sitting in training for like an hour it's really ruining the game for me
Nah dude, he is completely reasonable if he only wants to play wired connections and would rather turn them off. It's not even just a "him problem", wifi players will also be sitting there getting declined by many over and over who do not accept wifis. It's better for EVERYONE involved if you can disable it rather than match up and reject over and over.
@@yodawg6794 a problem created by wi-fi players for everyone who wants to enjoy the game. Tekken’s rollback netcode doesn’t handle wi-fi well at all. Even 5 bar wi-fi connection are mostly garbage. Not having an option to only get wired opponents is weird.
@@anthonychase6906 nah its a you problem. I'm on wired and I just wanna play some matches. So I just accept and have a good time. It your choice to sit there like bitch wondering why you aren't playing. Cuz you keep declining like bitch. Just accept, have a match and move on simple
@@yodawg6794not a problem for me. I will still deny everyone in fighting games who plays on a wi-fi. You may inconvenience me, but you only screw yourself over.
Man, I guess that shit was true when Harada bullied the shit outta that guy on twitter when he said Tekken is 3 and Sajam made that video on it off that tweet. Don't ask him for shit.
For those asking, I use 'Standard'. But, I accept a variety of connections/quality so I can see how good the netcode is. There's a lot of competition right now, so the majority of your matches will be 5-bar. But in a year, that will thin out dramatically, and the option for pristine connections will wither away. By accepting a variety, we're getting a better idea at how good the netcode of the game actually is. Good news, it's decent.
It’s pretty good between 3-5 bars if its wired. But i don’t think i will accept wi-fi players for much longer ngl. If it’s 4 bar, its usually a tragedy, and even 5 bar feels like a lottery. It either has a few hiccups or it goes to 1-3 bar in a few seconds and stays there for the whole match.
Wifi connections are still atrocious.
i have ptsd from smash wii and naruto ultimate ninja storm, so i will pick tick-tack-toe over delay based.
THEY ARE DEFINITELY HAVING SOME PROBLEMS BALANCING THE "RIFT" AS EVEN ON GOOD CONNECTIONS INSTEAD OF GIVING A BIG ROLLBACK, IT MICRO FREEZES, WHICH IT SHOULD NOT DO WITH ROLLBACK NETCODE, SO SOMETHING IN THEIR NETCODE IS OFF.
=)
Why do we as consumers have to worry about it to begin with? I'd imagine they could dynamically adjust this setting automatically on per-round basis.
On top of that, it feels like FG is still stuck in the 90s even with rollback, because they make you worry about your opponent's connection/pc performance which you have no control over. Imagine having lags in 64 people battlefield 2 matches, because someone's computer cant handle solid 60 fps - that'd be ridiculous!
(And before someone says it, no - the fact that the game is host based is not pathalogical, Destiny 2 is also host based in PvP and you do see laggy people there, sure, but their lag puts them into diadvantage, not you. But a dedicated server per match would be ideal, although I'm not sure the running expenses would be justified)
Finally someone who explained it properly instead of the typical “you need response in Tekken bruv, choose that option bruv, response is everything bruv”
Lol I read that comment in Steve Fox's voice, bruv.
@@AntonBetita that wall of netcode can't stop me
Wifi Kazuya teleport wave dashing with prioritze response is the stuff of nightmares
Got one bro and an alisa too not funny at all😂
Putting it back to Standard and turning OFF v-sync fixed many of my online matches.
Vsync? But without vsync it looks torn. Plus it's just a graphic setting. I did hear there was something like this tho. I'd really like to understand the reason
@@edgelord121vsync adds input delay.
Same. Everyone talked about how great response option was, but the game felt way too weird with that. Standard is fine.
@@via_negativa6183 that what I got, how do I fix it then?
V-sync Always off for me no matter what
One thing a lot of people don't understand about delay-based netcode is that having input delay isn't inherently bad, if it's consistent. The thing about delay-based that makes people tear their hair out is when the connection stutters and both sides have to wait for it to come back, which throws off the timing of inputs.
Including some input delay in your rollback netcode isn't intrusive, because the rollback is still doing its main job of smoothing out the connection.
No you always want 0 delay frames, it does not benefit the player at all to add delay except the visual difference. instead of them teleporting 2 frames you are delayed 2 frames which is no difference mechanically. the problem arises when those two frames that are cut off are non reactable frames, in this scenario you react at the same point but now i have 2 frames of delay. so added delay is either the same outcome but smoother looking or in many situations its completely worse and causes your reactions to be slower, it is definitively never better in any scenario. always always have 0 and simply dont play people that are not close because even if you play them with delay frames its still horrible its just visually hidden, id still rather play far matches at 0 because it only shows itself during their actions vs me feeling underwater always and being forced to react slower in cases where the frames that got cut off werent a visual tell
@@rampagerhino5434 Do you ever think that maybe you just have a harder time recognizing visual tells on startup because you're used to the game cutting off the first couple of frames on every move?
@@VannTango No in most games first startup frames just have no tell you can look at frame viewers to see this, prejump and nearly any moves first couple frames are just the character starting to transition out of idle, you lose these frames needlessly to delay when you delay out the teleportation for the sake of smooth looking visuals and therefore react slower
@@rampagerhino5434 This is so naive... If you always want 0 delay frames, but delay frames don't differ mechanically from frames that roll back (which is a dishonest way of framing it, since rollback is much rougher to feel AND look at) then what's the point of the rest of the things you wrote??
In old days players competed, for money, with setups with WAY more input delay frames than we're used to nowadays. You can't just pretend that didn't happen bro. Big part of that came internally from the old consoles. 0 delay frames is a complete cope pipe dream. Some delay is required for good rollback, and good netplay experience overall.
My point is your premise of "it does not benefit the player to add delay" is just wrong. It's not going to negatively impact player experience to have 1 extra frame of input delay if it's consistent. But you remove that one frame and suddenly your shit is teleporting everywhere, great. Add that to the fact that people have been competing with WAYYY more than 1 frame of input delay, and you'll realize that it's in fact GOOD for the gameplay experience.
These bots are spawn camping the damn comment section man.
is there any investigation on this? if i am early and see a few i just report them real quick
Spawn camping is evolving to new levels, and having AI makes it harder than ever to moderate.
I'd imagine Max putting all the emojis into the auto-flagging list. But the Doods who would do it earnestly are undoubtedly getting false-positive stray shots from the auto turret if Max ever sets this up in this way, lol.
M Y P O o O o O o S E E E Y Y Y Y I N B I O
I see nothing.
Almost as many people mentioning bots as there are bots. It seems bots learned camouflage that mentioning other bots.
Nice explanation of both what the settings do and what rollback netcode really is.
So that's why this one Nina looked like she was like, cancelling her cancels...
Potentially, but that also is just a thing Nina can do
@@McLovin63-j5n Yeah but this looked so unnatural like Akuma doing his cancels in Tekken 7
@@Jack_Mercer Potentially then. No way to really know without being able to see it. Not that it really matters too much anyways lol
Prioritize response has only improved my online experience, maybe with Victor it's different but I can't play Lee with delay.
i play Lee with prio fluid, rollback goes crazy otherwise for me
Just use standard
I don't know I put prioritize response because I was having a lot of dropped inputs with down 2 idk why really
@@ArchieGamez he said that it "improved" his experience, implying he tried standard and didn't like it.
No. @@ArchieGamez
I got spoiled on this conversation from watching the Triple KO episode! Very cool!
The insane Input delay in Tekken Tag 2 was something I only experienced whenever I switch to another output device (TV, monitor, etc.) and then about half an hour later, it's gone. Tekken Tag 2's input delay is slightly lesser on the Xbox One than on the Xbox 360.
I don't remember off the top of my head head what my setting are. I do know that even though I usually avoid wifi players as a rule, most of the times I fought them the whole set would go by and I'd forget they were on wifi. A stable wifi match would happen once every blue moon in Tekken 7.
How do you know in t8 if your opponent your matched with has wifi or not?
@@kildotgamingwifi will have the triangle shape. cable connected will have the blocks
I learned this lesson during the beta. During the first couple days of the beta I thought the netcode needed a LOT of work. People were so stuttery it was VERY ROUGH. Then for the last day and a half I realized I had instantly set my rollback to prioritize response. I put it on standard and it looked so much better
THanks for this I've been playing on standard because I had no idea what the other options really meant but now I might switch to prioritize fluidity.
Well there you go. Devs put a standard setting that they recommend, just use it for the most balanced experience. Only change it if you encounter issues.
Thanks for the PSA.
it wouldn't just be the opponents character jumping around as it has to register whether or not something has been blocked or interrupted or whatever other way they interact with your input. Everything will jump if the connection is bad and you are prioritizing response.
The response setting is probably great in Japan and South Korea..maybe some parts of Western Europe? But the rest of us need some delay frames as a buffer. Great explanation.
I think the issue is that Namco somehow hasn't figured out proper Rollback netcode.
Thank you for the clarification I should’ve been using standard this whole time
So this is why I see people teleporting right into my face....
I run prioritize response against a friend of mine in Sweden and I live in Texas. It runs fine.
Thank Maximilian for clarifying that! 🎉
I play on fluidity even tho I’m wired and have great connection. I’ve tried all 3. Fluidity bc far is the best imo
Standard is perfect, prioritize response makes frame skipping total HELL if connection drops
True I was wondering about this
I would rather my opponent teleport around a bit than my inputs be delayed.
Imagine thinking 3 frames is not a big deal when it literally means if you beat the opponent to the punch based on visual response from the human eye that we like to call... hand eye coordination.
As a Yoshimitsu player, you just have to prioritize input response
Prioritise response is a blessing. But Standard is also great. The fact the game can be adjusted to suit the distance is great. Plus I'm happy to hear max still brings up K.i because that game still has the best rollback on the Market.
I learned this the hard way. Prioritize fluidity is the best setting for me
If you're regularly playing on locals then you should definitely use prioritize response on a game that had such tight timing on difficult combos and just frame moves so that your input timing won't be messed up
I didn't even mess with these settings, and the game is working just fine. Had only one stuttering mess of a game
If you're playing on PC, the input delay of the game itself is already significantly lower than console, so if you plan to play on those systems for offline events and what not, to have the most standardized experience you should have it on Standard or even Prioritize Fluidity anyway.
Not by much. It’s 1 frame difference if you turn off V-sync off. PS5 has 58 ms response, Xbox SX has 57 ms. PC without V-sync has 42. It’s just 1 one frame. Source is Digital Foundry.
@@awesomereviews1561 yep, difference is about the same as prioritize response to standard. It's good to switch
I played in slow motion a few times with people. It's terrible. Are they using Wifi or something?
You can tell when you match up against them; WiFi symbol is wifi, Ethernet looks like cell phone reception bars
That's performance issues on their end. Usually PC players, there's an indicator in the bottom right corner (separate from the connection indicator) that shows PC player's performance. It'll be red or flickering red if they can't handle running the game.
Note some dummy think their pc can play on Ultra when they should be messing around the settings to make the game run smoother.
That's the one situation I justify plugging on my opponent.
That thing is red when I play against my friend who is on PS5 though so idk, and there would be no issues either. @@jacobyoung935
My insatiable Mishima ego won't allow me to pick anything other than Prioritize Response.
When 2 people have diff settings it chooses the higher df\ID one. So If you set to Fluid, your opponent is too even if its on standard\Response. I think you should of explained that to people so they understand this. What it means is you should be practicing with Fluidity to get used to it so your not thrown off by people who do go into their options and choose it.
I was interested how the different settings interacted. Kinda messed up that it goes with the less responsive option.
How do you know?
@@kgeo2686he never responded lol
Prioritise fluidity, since Day 1.
It's the way.
I just wish they would let us manually set our delay, so I could make it a consistent 2 or 3 frames of delay like KI or Strive and be done with it. I understand that they probably don't trust people to have that level of control since many won't understand it, but still it would be nice to have like an "advanced rollback settings" menu with a disclaimer about how it can mess up the experience if you don't know what you're doing.
2:00 Tekken has has "real" rollback since it went online in T5. It just increased input delay much quicker than it does now in T8, that's the only difference. In like T5 it started to increase input delay at like ping 32, now it starts to increase input delay at ping 100 when you have prioritize responsiveness. That's the only difference in the netcode.
1:56 If the stuttering in this clip is caused by rollbacks happening, why is the stuttering happening during a throw animation? It should be the same canned animation on both ends.
It's more likely that a desync is happening due to one player's computer struggling to render the flashy animation on Victor's throw.
It's not rollback. Just look at the processor icons turning RED on both sides, that indicates that the pc is not being able to render it properly. In that case it was because the effects are probaly at maximum settings.
I just stopped playing WiFi and connections less than 5. Game is smooth as butter
Yeah I'm wired to my router and I have fiber the game feels smooth as fuck online for me
Im upgrading my wired cable to be thinner so im able to route my wire into my room
My laptop is stronger than my PC and for the first week of T8, I didn’t know my laptop had an Ethernet port while my desktop couldn’t launch it so I suffered a lot the first week with poor online. Wired when it’s an available option will always be superior to the same connection wireless. That said, I accept every match anyway cause I just wanna play and overall it feels just as good as 7 but with cross play
downside... if u only willing to take perfect connections.. you wait longer than others to find matches. 3 to 5 bars ethernet is fine for me. For wifi its strictly 4 and above.
Thanks for the tips Max!
Nice! Definitely appreciate the insight!
I don't see anything bots spamming comments so idk why people keep saying it. I literally only see a handful a comments and they are ALL complaining about bots
If you try to scroll down to the bottom where the comments that get thumbed down to hell lives, then you'll see them (currently 2 left).
The bots just sound try-hardy trying to act like human and even put emojis. lol
@@FahmiZFX Yeah, and it's always a close up shot of a girls ass or crotch for the pfp. I honestly don't get the reason behind it. Do they have channels that they want people to click on. Imma find out. . . Ok, so yeah they have a few shorts on the channel, it's a scantily clad woman dancing and it says 'get in touch with me in the comments'. SO I assume the scam is, thirsty dudes reach out to the bot account at which point some real person jumps in and tries to trick them into giving them money or whatever credit card info etc.
The sad part is, it must work sometimes or you wouldn't see them all over the place.
Basically they all have big booty cheeks as their profile pic and almost always have been created in the last day or 2
@AlhpaNewusOmega That means enough people reported them quickly enough. That said, i don't know why i seems to see more of them in FGC videos in particular.
I was gonna say, the comments calling out the bots a) outnumber the bot comments and/or b) are outdated by the time they post the comment
For me (i only accept 5 bar wired connections) response is WAY better. I have very few issues with it and the few janky connections i had are still deffo worth it for the insanely low input delay
Yeah I'm wired and I have fiber my online expierence is great
Most of the people whinging about wifi connections are using Prioritize Response and hitching not realizing it's doing exactly what it needed to do.
Thank you for making this!
For me fluidity was a godsend, with standard the game kept freezing no matter what and I didn´t try response.
From my experience standard is usually 0 delay frames in good connections and 1 in meh connections. That 1 frame makes a huge difference in meh connections. Standard has been way better for me, but I only search for 5 bars since 4 is 100+ ms which is ridiculous
Legend of legends Max doid
Hmm, I've been running response because that seemed to be the consensus but I've been seeing a lot of weird behavior where stuff just stops or does things that don't match up. Didn't think about this so will have to experiment with the other settings and see how that goes. Would explain a lot based on Max's description. Would be nice if they give the netcode another pass at some point because it's 'good enough' but still definitely behind compared to what other games are doing.
Regarding fluidity. What's the point of me reacting to a move a few frames earlier if the input will be delayed by few frames?
So here's the REAL question: If you're set to Fluidity, and the other guy's set to Resonse,
are you at a disadvantage? Or is it the same, just that you're not seeing the stuttery junk?
Thank you for the advice!
This was such a great explanation. Is this true for just Tekke or jist for general
I don't suggest playing with any type of cake then frame delay if you're going to play offline.
Got into Orange ranks last night and it's become very difficult finding matches that are non wifi warriors. I played only 3 matches in 15 mins of looking not including time inside a match.
Never understand this sentiment since 90% of Wi-Fi matches are non discernible from normal ones.
@@sonysdad4709 You can tell. There's 2 different symbols that come with every match. If it's 5 lines in a vertical ascending from left to right it's a hardliners connection. If it's a buncha half bent lines that looks like a Soundwave it's wi-fi.
@@meteor22 I know what the visual difference is if you’re looking but the feel of the match is pretty much the same at least right now while the player count is at a high since they can match better
Boohoo
Thank you dood 🙏
im sure its relevant in the states but in europe where fiber is the standard responsive works as intended, at least with me also i have 1gb wired fiber.
Omg thank you, you saved my Lily ! ^-^
Can someone force DSP to watch this like Clockwork Orange?
Dunno if I get an answer, but how do these come in play when playing on lan? Of course there is no connection issues while on lan, so wondering what of these would best suite to practice for an offline event? Standard/fluidity?
just got battle with korean player. its really so good compare to fight agains local here in indonesia. im on prioritize response.
I switched to Prioritize Response but I'll probably switch back to Standard. I didn't really notice a big difference.
I've been using Response and sometimes it can be bad now that i think about it, i've literally had opponents going from neutral to snake edge, makes it sort of unseeable
But well, i'm also playing on south america so i can't trust the other person's connection
If you changes to prioritise fluidity you would see the whole snake edge and react in time but your inputs would be so delayed you would still get hit anyway, it might even make the reaction slower
i was struggling in ranked against fujins when i knew i wasn't doing too bad myself.
something always felt off and wrong.
thanks to you, i finally understand why.
2:40 "My guess it that it's 3-ish frames, maybe 4-ish frames"
No, this is wrong. Standard just means that the game starts to increase input delay at ping 82. So at ping 80 it's still delay 0, at ping 82 it's additional delay of 1 frame. With prioritize responsiveness it starts to increase input delay at ping 100, that's the only difference between the 2.
How do I know? I've seen it in the game code(in the x64 assembly) when I reversed it.
The game has 2 frames of built-in input delay but it has nothing to do with online/network, it has to do with with how the game tick function works and with how they schedule animations when inputs are processed. This delay can be decreased, which I did in T7 in Tekken Overlay, and it has nothing to do with network.
Sort of off topic, but is there a..suddenly can't remember the term.. Release check option? I feel like certain quarter circle moves are messing up and I'm not sure if it's my controller or the system. Can't seem to find an option for it but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.
Ive never heard of that. But some quarter circles work different from others. For example, bryan and paul enter a STANCE when they do QCF and QCB, so as soon as that input is in, you are locked into that stance meaning if you are pressing QCB+ 2 while still holding the f, it will work. And if you wait until after the QCB is fully done it will still work.
But with some characters if you press while they are on the "B" of QCB, it will just be a back+2 and not a QCB + 2, since you have to press after its let go. Prime example is a Steve throw, its QCB2+4. But B2+4 is a parry. You will get the parry if you don't let go of the QCB, since Steve does not have a stance for QCB.
You can't buffer quarter circle motions with characters like Paul/ nina
It's considered a stance for them, you have to wait for the previous move recovery to end
@@IAMOP oh no, I didn't mean as a buffer, but in general. The mortal Kombat games usually release with the controls in an odd state that has to be changed. Just trying to see if that's the issue I'm having but I don't think so
@@amitypredator9385 MK lets you switch from true quarter-circles to down-forward (no Diagonals needed)
Release check is a Killer instinct thing afaik, it lets you do negative edge specials.
none of that is in tekken 8 tho
Nicely Explained Max.
I've Played the Full Release for the First Time the other Day, I am pants so i got blown up lol but anyway i always accept any Connection, just too get more Matches, i probably Played 20 Matches and i got very Laggy Match, I guy gave up n let me Win and i got Spammed Out in one Match, Overall tho the Online for Tekken 8 is looking very good.
Nice video good info 👍
bro at 4:24 ive had that exact thing happen on T7. It said KO for ME and then my health went right back up and i had already relaxed and got hit again from not blocking.
Just to let you know there are now people abusing this. They use a bad connection set input delay and spam semi safe moves making it nearly impossible to punish or juggle combos. Played a dude who was at 220 ping and the game ran smooth as hell, like hell could I punish a damn thing though
Tekken8 is bullshit unbalanced game. Sometimes i feel game is blocking my input intentionally to make me pissed. What an horrible online experience.
They said 3D netcode couldn’t be done, but the mad scientists pulled it off
Only Harada said that and others repeated it. 3D netcode has already been implemented in fightcade with previous 3D games, including past Tekkens. And well before that, shooters which operated in a 3D environment, have had solid netcode for decades.
a good warning!
They all double edged swords. Fluidity, everything is more easy to see, but harder to react. Prioritize response, everything is harder to see, but more easier to react. What's more important to you? Standard tries to balance all of that
great video but the music is actually too loud man
I was wondering, when we talk about frames, what is the rate? Cause we don't specify for each game, but still, not all games run on the same fram rate. So, do we adopt a universal metric like 24 or 30 fps or do we just switch willy nilly from each games rate to rate, meaning when we say 1 frame it can be more important in one game than it is in another?
all fighters are 60 always have been
@@rampagerhino5434 "fighters" as in fighting games or as in characters?
@@gywii as in fighting games meaning tekken 8 runs at 60 frames per second aka 60fps meaning 1 frame is barely anything.
Prioritize Fluidity vs Wifi makes it ALMOST playable. when they usually have a huge hitch it slows the game fps and speed to make sure that huge hitch doesnt happen. It saved me in matches much more than seeing huge freezes from wifi
More Fishermen in the comments than bots...
let them teleport all they want. i'll take that over delayed inputs
what should i pick if my character requires just frames?
It depends on what move. But generally, if you are not relying on visual information to do the input, it will work no matter how many frames of delay. Like an electric, or bryan Taunt b4, or lee's acid rain, if your hands do the right timing, it will always come out. But if you are trying to sync up your input with something visually, like trying to block-punish with electric, or trying to press b4 on bryan's taunt based on when you SEE it hit, it will get messed up by the frame delay.
doesn't matter, if you do the same input the same move's gonna come out on both. the only difference is that on responsiveness, it comes out sooner, and on fluidity, it comes out later but there's less stutter/cut off animation startups/teleporting around on the opponent's side
edit: yeah as the others said if you are using on-screen cues to time your inputs then it DOES matter
aren't you gonna do a rate the endings Tekken 8?
I always play on Standard because frankly I'm not a total perfectionist snob who sees anything above one frame of delay and calls the cops. 3 to 4 frames is perfectly workable AND it means that you don't need to be within a stone's throw fucking distance of the opponent to get good games. Hell, with Standard I've even had solid games with most of the wi-fi players I've played.
I think a Jin player tried to mix me today with throws 30 times in one match, now I'm pretty good at breaking throws luckily but with 3-4 frames of delay I would've kissed my ass goodbye.
I would say I’m from Australia and most of the time it’s petty good I don’t get that many laggy matches
For someone who has to use WiFi, but I have a 200mbps connection, which should I use? My first fight ended when I started winning against another WiFi user. Not sure if it was me or just a rage quit. I’ve been intimidated to go online cause I can’t directly connect
You need to make sure there are no Interference with signals and set it up as such. Also adjust antenna in a way that it maximises range. If you can't go wired that is.
If possible use fiber internet.
Out of the 3 in the thumbnail which is the most efficient?
Blitz Bowl..Blitz Bowl..
3-4 frame delay makes or brake anything thats up to -14.
You might want to do something about those bot accounts Max, they are really filling the comment section with pointless posts.
So how does that affect electrics?
Is there a setting to get wired only connections? If I don't accept WiFi players I'll just be sitting in training for like an hour it's really ruining the game for me
Sounds like a you problem.
Nah dude, he is completely reasonable if he only wants to play wired connections and would rather turn them off. It's not even just a "him problem", wifi players will also be sitting there getting declined by many over and over who do not accept wifis. It's better for EVERYONE involved if you can disable it rather than match up and reject over and over.
@@yodawg6794 a problem created by wi-fi players for everyone who wants to enjoy the game. Tekken’s rollback netcode doesn’t handle wi-fi well at all. Even 5 bar wi-fi connection are mostly garbage. Not having an option to only get wired opponents is weird.
@@anthonychase6906 nah its a you problem. I'm on wired and I just wanna play some matches. So I just accept and have a good time. It your choice to sit there like bitch wondering why you aren't playing. Cuz you keep declining like bitch. Just accept, have a match and move on simple
@@yodawg6794not a problem for me. I will still deny everyone in fighting games who plays on a wi-fi. You may inconvenience me, but you only screw yourself over.
Anyone know what tune he’s using for this video?
depends on what your tolerance for input delay is mine is zero. if someone has less and 5 bars or wifi i just don't play them response is the way.
You’re not that good to be that demanding
I have played over 200 online battles on Wi-Fi and found that has long has I stay in the 4-5 bar it runs really well for me.
Boooooo
@@Lord_Alimdor You can boo me all you want, it doesn't change the fact I have a good time online with Wi-Fi.
@@via_negativa6183 exactly 💯
@@via_negativa6183 If a stutter happens it affects the both us and thing is from what I have played I haven't had too many stutters.
I have had maybe one bad experience in like 600 matches. This online is the absolute best it's ever been.
What should be the setting for WiFi people
Man, I guess that shit was true when Harada bullied the shit outta that guy on twitter when he said Tekken is 3 and Sajam made that video on it off that tweet. Don't ask him for shit.
I use prioritize inputs and I only play vs 5 bar Ethernet connections . I play Bryan
Is this option on consoles?
Yes