Great discussion -- very helpful and I'll point people unclear on the differences to your channel. Also fun to see Ginny Springs, Devil's Den, etc. That's where I got my Cavern Certs and they are awesome dives. Hadn't seen that Ginny Springs Gate in 25 years! A couple of *very* useful distinction our instructors made that clarify the situations (when you're safely within training and when not): maybe these distinctions have changed, but I'll cite them here and you can "tune it up" if they are no longer relevant: BOTH Cave and Cavern REQUIRE *three* light sources for a safe dive. All CAVE dives have 3 artificial sources of light. All CAVERN dives have TWO artificial sources, and the THIRD source is ALWAYS the sun. The good thing about that way of phrasing it is that it implies that "There is NO SUCH THING as a NIGHT CAVERN DIVE. That is, at night, you're Cave Diving, and your nice little Cavern Certification Card (technically) does NOT give you the skills for that dive. That rule clarifies the situation in a good way that adds nicely to your excellent clarifications on when your environment goes from OW to swim-thru to cavern to cave. Anyway you got a new subscriber!
There are published standards for limits the NSS standards (simply because it was the first book I found) for a cavern: Daylight zone and always within sight of a surface entrance 200 feet maximum total distance from the surface 100 feet maximum depth No restrictions Anything more complex than that is a cave dive under the NSS.
Thanks Scott Selkey for the info. Most training agencies are consistent on the depth ratings. Out of the 5 that we train through, it ranges between 60 and 80 feet.
I also think basing what you see on video as the transition from cavern to cave is distorting the reality of the sites. I've never been to Devil's Den, and I only have a couple of dives at Blue Grotto, but I know Ginnie pretty well. Down near the grate if you turn your lights off, and give your eyes 30 seconds to a minute to adjust, you can still clearly see the exit, give another minute and you can actually make out all the features pretty well, and this was at night, it would probably be even clearer at day. IMO lights really blow out our eyes and give us a false perspective. That being said the transition between cave and cavern will vary based on conditions, a good example of this is Peacock I, when there is an algae bloom there is no cavern zone at Peacock I. And also there is no such thing as a night cavern dive.
By definition alone yes. Morrison Springs is a beautiful place to dive, it was actually the first Spring system I ever dove in after my Open Water Certification, many many many years ago.
I work with a guy who just this week has been going on about how he's been cave diving .... he hasn't. He's got "about 30" dives under his belt and has been through a swim through. I pointed this out the first 3 times but now I've given up!
Hello Rick Kinney. Yes, there are certain sites that the industry has accepted as safe to dive. With this being said, I still believe that divers should conduct a risk analysis before going into a cavern or cave without proper training. a $1000 cave course is much cheaper than losing your life.
Great video. I missed that and I saw the reaction to it on DiveTalk channel a d I thought I should have seen the original version. Well done
Hello Michele luliano, glad you liked the video. Gus and Woody produce some great content as well.
@@LakeHickoryScuba yes that’s right. And I actively follow both of your channels! As I said well done!
Great discussion -- very helpful and I'll point people unclear on the differences to your channel. Also fun to see Ginny Springs, Devil's Den, etc. That's where I got my Cavern Certs and they are awesome dives. Hadn't seen that Ginny Springs Gate in 25 years!
A couple of *very* useful distinction our instructors made that clarify the situations (when you're safely within training and when not): maybe these distinctions have changed, but I'll cite them here and you can "tune it up" if they are no longer relevant:
BOTH Cave and Cavern REQUIRE *three* light sources for a safe dive. All CAVE dives have 3 artificial sources of light. All CAVERN dives have TWO artificial sources, and the THIRD source is ALWAYS the sun. The good thing about that way of phrasing it is that it implies that "There is NO SUCH THING as a NIGHT CAVERN DIVE. That is, at night, you're Cave Diving, and your nice little Cavern Certification Card (technically) does NOT give you the skills for that dive.
That rule clarifies the situation in a good way that adds nicely to your excellent clarifications on when your environment goes from OW to swim-thru to cavern to cave.
Anyway you got a new subscriber!
Thanks Bryan! brought back memories Did my pre open here in 78 took us to the gate and turned off the light. will never forget !
Glad you liked the video Searching 4.
Bryan is an outstanding instructor
Thank you for the kind words kennethdavis8366.
I've been diving in all three. The air bell at Blue grotto is really cool. And probably one of my favorite dives.
I love taking new divers into the air bell. Most can't believe they are able to talk underwater.
Hello thank you for your video, a very good one. I am a french scuba instructor and I really appreciate your channel :-) :-)
Hello AQUADOMIA Formation plongee sous-marine, glad you liked the video and channel.
Greetings from Sri Lanka!! Really appreciate it. Very educational!!
Hello kanchana silva, glad you liked the video and found it helpful.
Great video
Thanks Devine, glad you liked the video.
There are published standards for limits the NSS standards (simply because it was the first book I found) for a cavern:
Daylight zone and always within sight of a surface entrance
200 feet maximum total distance from the surface
100 feet maximum depth
No restrictions
Anything more complex than that is a cave dive under the NSS.
Hello Team Peg Leg, thanks for the information.
Great video. TDI says that cavern is limited to 61 linear metres/200 linear feet from the surface.
Thanks Scott Selkey for the info. Most training agencies are consistent on the depth ratings. Out of the 5 that we train through, it ranges between 60 and 80 feet.
That seems very liberal. There are a lot of caves where 200' is definitely cave proper.
Devils den is awesome. Thank you for taking me
You're welcome Calvin Cousins, glad you enjoyed it.
Great info, I love the devils ear there at Ginnie Springs
It's one of my favorites as well.
I like Blue Grotto cavern which isn’t too far from me. It is where I did my checkout dives.
We go there at least 6 times a year with new students, you should come join us sometime.
I was there 2 weeks ago and also not far away. Great place. I'm willing to go back anytime.
We have several trips planned in 2020 to the springs. Our customers absolutely love going there.
@@LakeHickoryScuba Say when. I would love to dive with y'all.
I also think basing what you see on video as the transition from cavern to cave is distorting the reality of the sites. I've never been to Devil's Den, and I only have a couple of dives at Blue Grotto, but I know Ginnie pretty well. Down near the grate if you turn your lights off, and give your eyes 30 seconds to a minute to adjust, you can still clearly see the exit, give another minute and you can actually make out all the features pretty well, and this was at night, it would probably be even clearer at day. IMO lights really blow out our eyes and give us a false perspective.
That being said the transition between cave and cavern will vary based on conditions, a good example of this is Peacock I, when there is an algae bloom there is no cavern zone at Peacock I. And also there is no such thing as a night cavern dive.
You make a great point, conditions of the dive make a huge difference as well.
Another great video Mr Brian...I really appreciate the tips and helpful info that you provide
You're welcome Keith Odell, glad our videos are helpful to you.
I would love to do a cavern dive one of these days.
Ginnie Springs is a perfect place to do it.
I guess you would consider the bottom room of Morrison Spring both a cavern and cave (?).
By definition alone yes. Morrison Springs is a beautiful place to dive, it was actually the first Spring system I ever dove in after my Open Water Certification, many many many years ago.
I work with a guy who just this week has been going on about how he's been cave diving .... he hasn't. He's got "about 30" dives under his belt and has been through a swim through. I pointed this out the first 3 times but now I've given up!
Feel free to share this video with him clarkeysam.
Are you even allowed to dive these types of sites if you aren't cavern or cave certified?
Hello Rick Kinney. Yes, there are certain sites that the industry has accepted as safe to dive. With this being said, I still believe that divers should conduct a risk analysis before going into a cavern or cave without proper training. a $1000 cave course is much cheaper than losing your life.
@@LakeHickoryScuba I agree 100%.