What TV Shows Get Wrong (and Right!) About Therapy
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- Опубліковано 13 лис 2023
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What makes a good therapist? Do you agree with Jonathan’s rankings?
Licensed therapist Jonathan Decker and filmmaker Alan Seawright are ranking TV therapists according to their effectiveness and sound therapy techniques, in Jonathan’s opinion. The contenders are Dr. Fieldstone from Ted Lasso, Dr. Kinbott from Wednesday, Dr. Raynor from The Falcon and The Winter Soldier, Dr. Frome from New Amsterdam, and Drs. Crane and Tewksbury from Frasier. Jonathan talks about the heart and human connection in a good therapist, and Alan explains why that also makes a good storyteller. And they answer a question from a Patron about finding the right therapist for you.
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Written by: Megan Seawright, Jonathan Decker, and Alan Seawright
Produced by: Jonathan Decker, Megan Seawright, Alan Seawright, and Corinne Demyanovich
Edited by: David Sant
Director of Photography: Bradley Olsen
English Transcription by: Anna Preis
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Not sure if it'll be possible but could you do a video on conquering phobias? I've only had one experience with a therapist who tried exposure therapy but in my opinion, rushed it which really put me off. Knowing what to look for in this specialist area or even just some tips on handling it myself would be amazing.
It was kind of hard for me to reach out and admit that I need therapy.
Please make a video on Nimona.
Can you guys please do a character analysis from a Korean drama?
My X boyfriend was narcissist. I still feel I didn't value the relationship enough I didn't make him feel validated. I hurt person even he was a narcissist I feel I need to take accountability hurting this person
I know TV Shows really aren’t your thing too often, but The Good Place is an amazing show and challenges a lot of things in me. I’d love to hear you guys talk about it someday.
The Good Place is amazing.
I tried to watch it but it triggered more existencial crisises lol
YESS IT'S A MASTERPIECE OMG
A Chidi episode would be right up their alley
Yes, I hope that they do a Psychology of a Hero Analysis of the main characters.
For me, the greatest problem with Wednesday's therapist is that she proves almost straight away that she isn't a safe place to talk to. She read Wednesday's work without permission and used it as a way to psychoanalyse Wednesday's relationship with her mother.
I have brought writing into therapy sessions in the past and they can be a really useful insight into me, but if that's the case then every psychologist I've gone to with my writing asks if they can share some of their thoughts on it as a psychologist or if I want them to just focus on the successfulness of having achieved something and that is super important. So many authors pour their private souls into their writing and to tear it apart without their consent can feel like a personal attack on themselves.
Yeah, I did not get good vibes from her in general. She just seemed really condescending, which is fair coming from a normal person talking to this awful young girl, but she is a professional therapist who is actually meant to help rather than judge.
Yeah but to be fair to the writers, she was a red herring so they had to add suspicious elements to her personality. I give her a solid B because I feel like everything else she did in that scene was pretty good.
Absolutey agree. Not to mention her leaning in and staring. She presents as over-eager, almost predatory, giving off strong venus flytrap vibes. I'd be running for the hills in 5 seconds flat.
Absolutely agree. She’s giving Umbridge vibes saying that she’s safe and then violating Wednesday’s trust by reading her work without her permission. Also, I think the tense and eerie music supports this view as well. It’s not only Wednesday’s experience, but the audience as well.
Honestly, also the 'you can't leave yet' thing, like hello?????? Way to make someone feel comfortable. I'm more surprised that the therapist somehow isn't picking up on how uncomfortable she's making wednesday.
The thing that bugged me the most about the TFatWS scene was that James did actually share something real "If he was wrong about you, then maybe he was wrong about me". That was huge. And Sam, who is supposed to be a mental health person, who has connected to veterans (I can't recall his actual job, but I know he worked with vets in TWS), completely glossed over how deep and vital that is to how James' feeling. The therapist didn't even touch on it, either. That really frustrated me to see that moment just dropped for the sake of a laugh.
Another therapist Georgia Dow calls Raynor out for not following up on this. She gave him shit about not being open but does nothing when Bucky finally decides to do so? And it's hard for Sam not to gloss over when Raynor just ends the session like that. It's her responsibility to lead a therapy in a certain direction so I don't put the blame on him. Fortunately Sam makes up for it a few episodes later. ua-cam.com/video/rbBEViyIZtA/v-deo.html&pp=ygU2cmVhbCB0aGVyYXBpc3QgcmVhY3RzIHRvIGZhbGNvbiBhbmQgdGhlIHdpbnRlciBzb2xkaWVy
YES! That frustrated me too
Same! I didn't understand the therapist's sarcasm at the end.
YES!!! that was so frustrating!
I wonder if this gets quoted as an example of Marvel's "irony poisoning"?
He's not a professional therapist, but I've been saying for a while that I would absolutely love to see a video talking about Iroh from Avatar: the Last Airbender. He is an amazing character, both as a wise old man whose wisdom actually feels real, and as a lively and entertaining yet believable character. Mostly it's his relationship with Zuko that draws attention but the advice he gives and the kindness he shows to everyone he meets are always so wonderful.
Also, excellent job David Sant on the captioning. I got quite a chuckle out of "unless it's a kink thing".
It certainly helps that Iroh has been through war and through his travels through the four nations, learns that one side is never _completely_ right no matter who’s perspective it is viewed from. He’s just amazing and I’ve yet to see a show or movie hit me as hard as “Leaves From the Vine”.
@@tlkfanrwbyfan8716 The wars are definitely a big part of it, but I think the lesson he took was less "one side is never completely in the right" and more ""no matter who's right, violence sucks, and should only be used when every alternative has been exhausted AND whatever it is is worth fighting for".
The Fire Nation is pretty unambiguously in the wrong in ATLA, but that doesn't make the lives lost on their side of the war, Iroh's own son included, any less of a tragedy.
Im also interested in Zuko as well. I literally just commented in another video about zuko but iroh would be amazing.
Nah. Zuko
@@sheesh994 Yeah, Zuko's arc of working through trauma and recognizing that doing bad things for the approval of a bad person won't bring him peace would be another good video topic. Closely related though, given how much of Iroh's screentime is devoted to helping Zuko reach that point.
Maybe it's a weird thing to say, but I just wanted to thank you guys.
As someone who is.... vaguely afraid of men, when I went about trying to find a therapist, I avoided men like the plague, but I couldn't find a single female therapist that I felt comfortable with.
It was only through watching your guys videos that I sort of warmed up to the idea that a male therapist might not be so bad.
It's the only reason I found a therapist that Ive learned to trust and has helped me tremendously. He's one of the best, least frightening men I have ever met (he actually reminds me a lot of you guys) and he's very likely the only reason I'm as functional as I am.
So thank you, genuinely, for making this show and pulling back the curtains on therapy and psychology and making it something so fun and non intimidating.
I don’t remember if they’ve ever gone over it and some therapists aren’t comfortable with it, but the best advice I’ve heard was “Even if it’s your therapist, ask questions. Ask how to improve certain aspects in several different ways instead of just what you think would be best for yourself. Ask at your job how to do other things” and the most important thing they ever said to me which I wish I had done more of towards them, “Ask your friends and family how they’re doing, ESPECIALLY when you see they’re in their usual state, but possibly subdued. Everyone asks if you’re ok when you look not ok, but nobody asks when you look fine.”
I'm so glad you found a fitting therapist.
I can relate... which, I find kind of funny since we share a name
I think I've been there and Jono has such a sweet soul I even watch Cinema Therapy whenever I'm feeling deeply sad, it really helps me
Omg yes. My exact experiences.
There’s a scene in a later season of Lucifer where his therapist has already severed their relationship due to ethics. He bursts in with a problem and in response she states that since she’s no longer his therapist she doesn’t have to guide him anymore to his own realization, this is the answer! Part of the comedy had been him taking the wrong lesson and watching her fumble to reframe, and then him understanding after he makes all the mistakes. It was almost refreshing to see her be able to figuratively grab his face and tell him what was obvious to all of us.
Yeeeees, I loved that scene! She was constantly so frustrated being his therapist, but always kept herself professional (aside from the payments she got ahaha). It was kinda nice to see her finally just say "eff it, I'm gonna tell you straight to your face!"
The whole dynamic between Lucifer and Dr. Linda is a bit far-fetched, but also hilarious
I loved Dr. Linda. She's who I'd want as a therapist if she existed IRL. :D
"Maze is pissed with you because you used her!!!"
I REALLY REALLY REALLY want them to do Lucifer. I LOVE that show. 😂 🤘😈🤘
Otis and Jean from Sex Education would be fascinating to explore - not only do they both experience successes and failures throughout the show as sex and relationship therapists but the dyanmic of them as a mother and son and the way that influences their therapy throughout the show really speaks to your point that when a therapist is genuine it shows in the quality of their therapy. Hope to see more of these!
Also how Otis's own biases as a straight white cis male can prevent him from helping his clients in a meaningful way. There's a reason that women tend to seek female therapists, BiPOC people look for BiPOC therapists, etc.
That would be an amazing series to focus on! So many painfully real moments. Also, the therapists are the main characters, which is in contrast to what we so frequently see
Yes omg!!!
Can we have Alan react to depictions of directors in movies?
Would be cool too!
i would watch that!!
1. Frasier clip had me absolutely in tears. I work in mental health and have a psych background. But also definitely need a lot of therapy myself. And I struggle very hard to find the right fit because they are repeating to me what I already know. Burying in psychaitric excercises. They mean well, but Ive already done it all to myslf. So that definitely hit a nerve.
Only therapist I did find that helped me once (unfortunately retired) said one thing to me that literally changed my entire perspective. Whatever problem I was going through I equated to the Stanford marshmallow expirement. I knew I should wait for the better outcome, i knew the pros of delayed gratification, yet I couldnt manage to stop myself from eating the marshmallow. He said, "you know what variable that experiment doesn't account for, when was the last time the child ate? Its a lot easier to wait 5 min for a second marshmallow if you just ate 30min ago, but if you havent eaten since yesterday, little food now is better than more food later. Your problem is not will power, your problem is starvation."
While I am sad I havent been able tonfind such a good match since him, ilthe kindness I developed for myself becauae of him will always remain.
Holy shit. Your therapist also described my problem. 😂
Wow that's a deep insight. Thank you for sharing that :)
This reminds me of a young woman I cared for with kidney failure. She had been on dialysis extremly young, and received a transplant before she turned 18. As she reached adulthood and dealt with mental illness and the change in healthcare team after 18, she stopped taking her transplant medications and her transplant failed. She carried this guilt that she had destroyed this "gift" of a kidney. I tried to shift the perspective for her - her untreated MEDICAL diagnosis of depression, had the side effect of impacting another medical diagnosis. It was not a personal failing, it was a failure of the system to catch her as she free-fell into depression.
The marshmallow study also failed to control for trust in authority - does the child have authority figures in their lives who would fulfill this promise of more marshmallows later? What race are those authority figures, and does it match the race of the study authority figures?
Thank you for passing it on. I relate to this a lot too. I am not a therapist, but when youve been in that system for a while with burnt out workers and a system thats barely functioning, you pick up a few things. And when one therapist comes along and is actually able to see you as a person, and form that connection, sometimes they find the right words to say, they can see what the issue actually is, and speak to you in the language you know best.
I wasnt always being honest with them, which was part of the problem. But i knew they could take away the little i did have without understanding it was the only threads i had left to hold onto. (Online friends back then werent "real" they were strangers trying to lure you into their van). But what i really needed was someone to see the overarching question i really had, the "whats the point of it all?" And that i didnt have support, that they couldnt change my parents into that, that they couldnt "manifest" friends with real connections and support into my life. (Ie join a club, do a class, generic meet people regularly types of generic advice didnt work for me. I couldnt make people like me). Its hard to convey to them that it wasnt straight forward. Some things just have to be observed. I know the pattern, i can relay the pattern but not the key factor in why its a pattern or find a way out of it myself. Other people have the key but do not hand it to me, the same way other people have your name, you are the one that uses your name the least.
I'm so delighted that more projects are normalising therapy, and that you're not weak for choosing to see a therapist. On the contrary, it shows that the patient is mature enough to recognise that they have issues, and are trying to work them out.
👏🏾 Exactly
@@Firegen1 Thanks, nice to see you again, Firegen1! 💞
@@trinaqIt's always good to you, too Trina! 😊💕 Keep being awesome you
@@Firegen1 Thanks, right back at you! I hope that our paths will cross again soon. 😘
@@trinaq Thank you 😊! Me too. We enjoy big heart, big brain content. ✊🏾
For me, my real-life therapy was really hitting home at the time I was watching "Lucifer". Now, I know Dr. Linda got a lot of things wrong in her personal relationships with her clients, but her peeling away the mask of Lucifer and his realization of his hurt and covering up kinda got to me. I also found her fear really moving and I wonder how therapists feel when their client is honestly terrifying.
I was also thinking about Dr. Linda she helps so many intimidating figures
I’m glad I found this comment because I was thinking about the same thing!
Dr. Linda is a good pick!
But how many times would she be struck off, lol
I have watched the entire series three times and there is an episode where Lucifer sits in her office after he was so angry he punched a hole in her wall and he has apologized. Then she calmly asks him, “Why did you think I would be mad?” And I feel so seen and vulnerable in that moment! She got many things wrong, but the healing of Lucifer in her office was awesome.
Clinical psychologist from Norway here, working with children and adolescents with trauma and borderline personality disorder 🙋🏽♀️ Love your channel ❤️ Ok, so I’m nitpicking here, playing the devils advocate: I think Wednesday’s therapist could validate Wednesday’s wish to not get therapy more. I find her method just slightly disrespectful of Wednesday’s autonomy. A sort of “I know better than you what you need”-attitude, wrapped in cute paper. Other than that I agree with your assessment!
Other therapist to react to: the one from Sopranos! 🤓 And just the whole Awakenings film 🩵
I so agree with you.
please don't forget it was court mandated. but i agree you are right in that she could have respected her more.
I interpreted the therapist from Wednesday as a satire of therapy
My take on Wednesday’s therapist was that whoever selected her hadn’t done their homework. An absolute horrible match for the patient. And she overstepped her boundaries.
Child psychologist from the Netherlands here, I had the same feeling! I felt like she was too steering and confronting regarding her client
I'm a psychologist and I'd like to give the guy having the kid record a video an S (A is too low). He presented it perfectly, helping the kid navigate from his current, simplistic view of the word to a new, more complete view. He did it without the kid noticing at all and he did it from a position of empathy. He already understood the situation enough that he knew exactly which experience the kid needed to see the full picture. It's elegant, experiential, and empathetic. It tracks perfectly with my favorite book on this as well (Finn's In Out Clients' Shoes). Just look at how much sauce is there! Therapy doesn't get better than that, hence, S tier.
He really was an wonderful Dr. Definitely someone I would've trusted with my well-being.
If you watch the whole show, you'll see that Iggy sometimes is too needy with his patients. In some episodes he wants the kids to be his friend too much. Probably because he went through a crisis himself.
I like that balance and kinda wish they didn't pick just the s-tier moment.
@@papercrafttherapist7998he is human, makes mistakes, but I think he is a great doctor anyway. And this clip is amazing
I have to add, that the kid in that scene seems like an incredible actor. I haven't watched the show, but that tiny clip moved me to tears, especially because the kid did such an excellent job acting.
"If he was wrong about you, then he was wrong about me!" STILL hits hard.
Agreed! I actually think that scene shows that sometimes breakthroughs can happen in strange ways. I also did not find the therapist's affect to be grating.
With the Wednesday example, Dr Kinbot using Wednesday's novels was a huge violation of her privacy. Wednesday had not released those novels to anyone, so it's evident that the adults in Wednesday's life are breaking that privacy and sharing her private creations with each other. Even without knowing the context of the show, I would think it's clear that Wednesday was blindsided by Kinbot bringing up the novels, establishing that this wasn't something that Wednesday had consented to sharing with her therapist. Would be really interested what you guys think about this!
Also she gives wednesday absolutely No Time to come to Terms with the fact that she is in therapy or to build Trust. Instead she confronts her directly even though wednesday is already about to Close down. She s No where near a useful Trustlevel and she gives wednesday No reasons to build one. I only Had Basic counseling in Uni and they would have criticised me heavily for such a Style
@@myriamh.2182 good points! she's a terrible terrible therapist in the show for and that's intentional. Which is why I was surprised that they almost praise her as the point of this scene was literally to establish how bad she is. The music alone makes it ominous and communicates how upset Wednesday is!
I’m not a therapist, but I am a ridiculously introverted writer. Wednesday, she had her writing thrown in her face. Dr Kinbott didn’t ask to read it, she blatantly said she was given her writings as proof of how deeply troubled Wednesday was. You can see it in her face when Kinbott brings it up, there’s panic, betrayal, annoyance, and reluctance written across her face. She doesn’t want to discuss something private like that with someone she doesn’t trust. And sure, you can say ‘well, she’s trying to get the books published.’ But that’s different. When that moment comes, you make a conscious decision to let people read her thoughts and ideas. She hadn’t made that decision with Kinbott, it was taken from her.
I was really surprised by your take on Dr. Kimbot from Wednesday. When I first watched it, I felt like she pushed really hard and hit at a sensitive area where Wednesday showed her true feelings (her writing), without first building any sort of relationship first
Yeah she kind of violated her trust and had her own biases going in and was trying to steer her in a certain direction that she felt would have her desired client outcome to me. Her sickly sweet act was definitely a front until Wednesday showed her that she wasn’t going to melt to it so she had to try and “match” her energy. Which, normally I guess is good if the therapist is dealing with a difficult client but it came across as almost combative. And don’t even get me started on the family therapy session.
That being said though, I feel like unless you watch the entire show the context of her words and methods and some of the things she does after this first session helps in judging how good of a therapist she actually is. In my opinion she really was the worst of them all.
I agree. Having not watched the show, seeing only this clip, my first impression was how off-putting she felt, even beyond what the show is trying to make you feel from Wednesday's POV. Her "niceness" seemed insincere and she felt very "on the offensive". Maybe it was the characterization or pacing, like you said not building up a relationship first, but I didn't come away from that clip thinking she was a good therapist.
She demands trust off the bat, then tells Wednesday how to feel and why she was wrong. She should have started off slow and probed into why Wednesday released piranhas in the pool. If she had done some digging she would have discovered that Wednesday is incredibly protective of her brother, and that Family is one of her core values. After she figured that out she should have steered her patient in the direction she could have gone to instead while fulfilling her need as a sister. Wednesday also has a tenuous relationship with her mother, mainly because Morticia doesn't allow her daughter to develop a sense of self. Demanding to explore that dynamic without understanding how highly Wednesday values her sense of self is completely detrimental.
@@LittleHobbit13 I've also only seen the clip and completely agree. The sweet is put on and I'm quite surprised they don't see it.
When a patient would rather climb out a window and over a roof, you know they're a bad therapist.
Growing up undiagnosed ASD/ADHD in an abusive home, I was not surprisingly seeing every shade of mental health professional from the age of 9. None of it ever helped. It wasn't until a psych ward stint that hooked me up with my current therapist, Tyler, which has been one of the greatest things to ever happen to me. The first therapist in this video actually reminded me a lot of him. People like them (and Jono!) are absolute saviors to people like me. Thank you thank you thank you.
Eyyyo are you me?
No, I didn't get any help 😢
Hopefully soon though
@@Nerobyrne it took me almost two decades to finally get help and another six years to finally get properly diagnosed. And that sucks because I lost 32 years of my life to struggling, but at least I finally am on the right path. Don’t give up.
@@BeeWhistler I absolutely, completely, 100% agree with you. The system is broken af. I'm autistic, and our system is so damn broken that my life expectancy is two decades less than my NT peers. I absolutely know those feelings you're articulating and had given up myself many, many times. The fact that I managed to make it through those 20 years is something I still don't understand because, oh damn, was it close. There needs to be MAJOR systemic overhaul to properly help and support ND, mentally ill, and trauma-surviving folks (in the US anyway) - categories all of which I'm lucky enough to belong, so my rage at the system is compounded. People shouldn't have to struggle and fight and suffer like that in this day and age. It's unacceptable.
It took me 20 years as well to find a great therapist that helped me and changed my life forever. It is really hard. I am really proud of myself for pushing.
(Just for context I am not from the US and the difficulties I had are a little different, in some cases way worst than in the US and in others better)
I’m right there with you. Finding therapy and testing (ADHD) for myself and my kids has been rough. We are in a rural area and so lists of therapists don’t ever seem to cover us. I encountered a psychiatric practice that wouldn’t help me with my ADHD because they don’t write any prescriptions for controlled substances?! How…how do you practice psychiatry without? We have managed something to help each of our kids get along and function.
In areas such as ours a Speed Dating type of event where you move around a room meeting all the therapists and can ask questions and see if you like them and vibe with them would be so helpful. Right now the big mental health clinic assigns you a therapist, somewhat based on your issues and their education, but I got a NP who was awful, like truly… my family doctor on hearing about this person said “that’s excessive, I’ll write your scrips…” I could see where this NP might be ok for someone else…but she treated me like I knew nothing about ADHD and I know a fair amount, plus I’m an RN.
We get burned out by the search, if we can function without therapy we wind up giving up!
As a practicing LPC, I love your videos and "refer" you out frequently to my clients. I couldn't wait to see Jono's "vs" because I find most fictional therapists make me cringe to the point that my family will have to talk me down after watching them. Dr. Sharon Fieldstone (Ted Lasso) is a favorite of mine and I totally agree with Jono's perspective. I'd love to see more of your opinion on "Shrinking." I could only watch the first couple of episodes. I thought Shrinking did a good job at helping mental health professionals show their human side, but cringed at all the unethical behaviors. THANK YOU to both of you for your vulnerability and hard work making this channel. CinemaTherapy is one of the very rare bright spots on UA-cam.
We covered Shrinking but we had to cut it for time for UA-cam. It's on our Patreon! Thank you for your support and for watching!
@@CinemaTherapyShow loved this video! But you should definitely do a therapy video on Iroh from Avatar The Last Airbender
As a psychologist with a specialization in Gestalt therapy (relational, body-oriented, mindfulness), I wouldn't change a thing of what Jonathan has shared. I would like to add on, to explore the emptiness of Frasier. How is it to be empty? What does the emptiness want? The emptiness could be one of a million things, perhaps it asks for rest, perhaps for human connection again, perhaps validation. Also, to add on to Wednesday's therapy session. I would also explore Wednesday's strengths (her wit, her sensitive senses), her strong boundaries, and perhaps, when it is safe enough, her other polarities. I do not think Wednesday felt safe with her therapist (hence the POV, the music etc. that Alan explained), so reprimanding her, forcing her to do things she does not like, judging that she has no remorse, those moves would make Wednesday feel even more unsafe, drawing her boundaries even higher, and breaking the therapeutic alliance. So, just like Jonathan, this therapist's style is not my style.
p/s I did not watch any of these shows, except for Ted (big love for this show), so please excuse me if I misunderstood the characters.
Thank you for putting into words what I’ve felt every time I’ve seen the scene in Wednesday! You were spot on.
I very much appreciate what you’ve said here, especially about exploring that empty place and Wednesday’s positive attributes, and agree.
That Frasier scene was awesome, i never got that far in the series but that emptiness is so central to the character and the show it's really the emotional core. That's why the family dysfunction is the meat of the show, because the men are all struggling with it alone together. I'm really glad they eventually addressed it by name
Frasier is such a great show!
I think what really cheesed me off the show was that two of the three men dealt with it and grew...but Frazier never actually did.
That is actually consistent though. We always look to help others and forget about ourselves. As a kid there was a saying, “the shoemakers kids have holes in their shoes”. It just means that we do our jobs looking to take care of others and it is usually ourselves or those closest to us that become overlooked.
I don’t know if the therapists was good however. He already knew he felt empty (which is why he called) so it wasn’t a breakthrough. But maybe the scene goes on and the therapists says something useful.
@@dclark142002 But deep down, that's kind of the point. But it's also why Frasier as a character and a series, underneath the comedy is a little depressing. He's a man who really truly struggles through life. Those around him seem to find a purpose, but he is desperate to find the same thing. That's the deep premises, he helps others, but he can't help himself.
Dr. Noelle Akopian from "Crazy Ez Girlfriend" might be a positive example of a fictional therapist. She gently helps Rebecca to come to terms with her outlandish behaviour and eventual Borderline personality disorder in a helpful, constructive manner. She's also delighted to hear that Rebecca is listening to her advice, and is getting better. Same goes for Dr. Shin.
YES, they were both so good!! Maybe This Session is a masterpiece performance 😄
The episodes where Rebecca gets her diagnosis and when she’s finally on her medication, and when she relapses while she’s with new Greg and the song the Darkness…. So many psych breakthrough moments ❤
so glad you mentioned her - she's such a great and beautifully written character !!
Love that show!!! 😍
I think about the "antidepressants are so not a big deal" song every time I talk to anyone about medication lol
Psychologist here, wanted to weigh in on Dr. Raynor. While ultimately I agree with the "Eh" rating, I do think she was probably an effective therapist for Bucky individually. Her direct approach seemed to work for him and his ability to interact with her in a joking manner (similar to how you see him interact with Steve and Sam versus his cold standoffish demeanor with other characters) makes me feel that they likely had strong rapport. It's also notable that despite expressing resistance, Bucky does initiate the exercise, which again shows a level of connection. I think most of her failing was not introducing the exercise to Sam who was visiting for the session and getting his buy in. Then, during the exercise she doesn't correct Bucky's ineffective aggressive communication which ultimately leads to Sam (rightfully) leaving. Just my thoughts, but we don't get to see enough of their relationship to say for sure.
If we're only looking at the "couple therapy" scene, I think Dr Raynor's approach was effective. But going back to the episode before where we see one of Bucky's solo sessions - I think she was not a good match at all. Not that she didn't care because I do think she did care. And maybe in dealing with vets there does need to be a certain "no bs" attitude. What I have a problem with was her actual approach to his issues. He's not just a vet dealing with PTSD. And he's not just a person who did bad things he regrets. She approached it like as if he was an alcoholic or addict; maybe some bad things you did were out of your control because you weren't sober, but there was still a choice made to get drunk/high whatever. Bucky never had a choice. The closer comparison would be treating him like a cult survivor. Someone who was severely manipulated, was a victim himself. They never talk about the torture he suffered, only the pain he *inflicted* (against his will).
@@echoingvistas So in think you have a point here but looking at Bucky and how he also isn't taking the steps he needs to move past those actions it is clear (to me at least) that he cant let go of his guilt. I think he feels like he is still responsible and simultaneously wants his "victims" to exact vengeance on him and is afraid of what that would look like. I also don't think Bucky can allow himself at that time to see himself as a victim so then it does kind of become a strategy of finding the problem with the most easily accessible solution. That most easily accessible solution seems like getting Bucky the tools he needs to be able to forgive himself then when the pressure of that has eased he can work on getting him to accept he was powerless and a victim. Its one thing to accept that things happened to you out of your control and another thing entirely to accept that you were a victim especially from the generation that Bucky was a part of i think.
@@masterxm1972I actually agree with all of that. Of course Bucky doesn't see himself as a victim. My issue was Dr Raynor treating him like he was not a victim. "You did the bad things, you need to fix them" does not help someone who already thinks that when it's wrong. How is he ever supposed to try to forgive himself if a professional is telling him that his inner demons are right? I'm not a psychologist by any means, so please someone tell me if I'm off on the approach, but it just feels like confirmation bias. And hey, maybe literally no one but Steve has said to him "none of this was your fault." Especially when Bucky is going to people like Yori Nakajima to tell them the truth and they're (rightfully) upset.
I dunno. I think the exercise was helpful in the end, I just feel like it should have been presented differently.
Bucky's "aggressive comminication" here was fairly typical of someone who has very severe trauma. As professionals Dr Raynor and especially Sam should have recognized that. Instead, Sam basically responds like a petulant child and takes offense. Bucky literally *doesn't know* how to communicate his pain, guilt, fear and trauma because he was not able to do that with HYDRA and then after he escaped them nobody realized the full extent of what they did to him, and would have just seen it as self-pity.
Sam's reaction is in no way jusitified to a person who is so damaged and broken as Bucky. Especially not in a moment when he is *finally* opening up and his response would have been extremely harmful in any kind of real-world context. If anything Sam is being incredibly selfish and only thinking of himself and his feelings when the therapy session is *not about him*. He was told that. Its about Bucky.
Dr Raynor should also not have just let it go like that and should have followed it up. Not understanding that Bucky was also a victim is a major problem with both he characters and the series overall.
I'd love if you could talk about some of the counselors and therapists we get throughout Star Trek. Deanna Troi, Ezri Dax, Patricia Cornwell, and Hugh Culber all come to mind. There's even an arc in Discovery about Culber needing to sit down and talk with someone because he is getting burnout from trying to help everyone else.
Absolutely, and you could even throw in Guinan, even though she's not a therapist exactly she does just as much as Troi throughout the show.
@@grahamvaneck8906honestly she was more of a therapist that Troi.
I'd love to see you review a therapy scene from Monk. Monk's therapists always had so much personality, and you could see how much they helped Monk work through his pain. It was the first show I can remember watching that consistently showed therapy as deeply beneficial to the main character.
Omg I haven’t thought about that show in ages. You’re absolutely right! I watched it as a kid but the fact that he was severe OCD and needed a therapist made sense to me. I feel like that show for it’s time was brilliant
I’ve heard great things about that show, I need to find where to watch it all
I thought -- Mork from Ork?
@@kyze8284Peacock!
@@kyze8284 prime video has it
The Ted Lasso scene made me tear up. She reminded me so much of my own therapist who's nothing short of a sweetheart. She showed up at a time when I was bottling up so much anger and gtief and helped me heal, and still does. The only difference is that we didn't get to have a hug like that.
Thank you for the video CT, you guys always manage to tug at my heartstrings
Made me tear up as well, not because of what you said, but because the way Ted was describing his father reminded me so strongly of my Dad. He didn't commit suicide though, he died of am aggressive brain tumour when I was in my early 20s. But like Ted's father, Dad was a humble guy and he never really understood, or believed, how awesome he really was. Fortunately I got the chance to tell him before he died, for which I'm grateful. It helps now. I still miss him decades later.
As a therapist who needs therapy i related so hard to frasier. Finding a therapist had been so hard because i know what they are doing and have already done it for myself. I wish there were more therapists out there who specialise in therapy for therapists.
Same! I wish there was therapist who help the helpers would love to try to be one someday
I can empathize. I find myself analyzing technique. Ultimately, I guess like any client in that regard, I found myself kissing many frogs until I found someone with the heart I was looking for. Unfortunately, he didn't have the right skill set, but he walked me down the road as far as he could. And then I found my current therapist, who has both the heart and the skill set. I wish you well on your journey to find the right person. I'm an MFT by the way 😊
I wouldn't give Wednesday's therapist an A. She was too straightforward and it felt like she forcefully extracted the information about her life goals and her mother.
By telling Wednesday the things she had already found out about her, she made her defensive. My heart rate rose just watching her mention such personal things so bluntly.
At the beginning of the session when Wednesday replied about the fish incident, she replied in a very offensive manner so that the therapist would drop the subject and let her go. The therapist then really dropped the subject but "attacked" her back by trying to get under her skin too, because probably Wednesday got under her skin first - we can see her face change when Wednesday says "this is a waste of time". Anyway, the therapist let Wednesday make the conversation combative, even though she advertised the opposite first.
By all this, the therapist just helped Wednesday solidify the belief that life is all about kill or be killed. Which is what caused the fish accident in the first place.
So no, not an A, maybe a C, because she didn't really make it all that worse either.
Wednesday's therapist is AWFUL and I'm 100% sure she was written like that on purpose to make her appear suspicious.
Thank you! Took the words right out of my mouth
Yeah, she did everything to have Wednesday shut off completely.
I also agree the therapist was awful way too confrontational especially for a first session. First couples of session should be about building rapport and very little to no confrontation in general
Agreed.
Thought on the Winter Soldier therapist:
I work with Veterans (I’m actually a board-certified and licensed music therapist), and while I can definitely see the burnout piece you mentioned, I also find that the straightforward approach she takes in calling them on their behavior can sometimes be effective. I wouldn’t display the same attitude, but I find many of my male Vets appreciate when people are straight with them.
I loved the show "The Falcon and the Winter Soldier" and was always curious what a real therapist who specialized in therapy with veterans would think of those therapy sessions, especially the one shown here.
Yeah I was wondering if it was just her personality take no bs kind of approach. In that way how is she that much different than the therapist helping Frasier in his scene?
Yeah, I've always read her as done with their shit and not actually having gotten to the therapy, yet. To me she seems like the person who specializes in getting stubborn people to admit they need therapy and be willing to participate (as I remember Sam and Bucky are not there voluntarily). It's likely that she isn't their first therapist and isn't intended to be their last.
Yeah, I disagree with Johnathan on this. I think her approach was correct in this setting.
It's been awhile since I watched the show, and my memory isn't the best, but I'd have sworn that she was a government employee who WAS burnt out and seemed to be counting the days to retirement .
I have seen it mentioned a couple of times already, but Dr. Raynor in Falcon & The Winter Soldier is great. Not only is she a vet herself but she is communication with them like a soldier does: no non-sense and doesn't let the bullshit start. Mental help is EXTREMELY difficult for soldiers to accept (especially and old soldier like Bucky) so she is communicating to them in a way that doesn't make them feel coddled or weak. I LOVE when she orders Sam to join the session. He by all rights does not need to be there, but she knows they need to talk, they care about each other, and if she does the normal "open the door and let them find each other approach" then these stubborn soldier will take FOREVER to get there. As a veteran, I promise you that for a lot of us we need the cold, unfiltered truth served raw.
Yup, adapt and match the tone and personality of clients not one size fits all.
Ikr? I don't think her being authoritative was her "not having passion for the job", it was her ensuring she's being listened to. Both Sam and James are extremely opinionated and stubborn, sitting down and going "Let's talk about your feelings" would get them nowhere. She basically tricked James into speaking his mind and he actually ended up in a place of autoreflection, which in effect forces Sam to realize James wasn't acting the way he was just because he wanted to be difficult or didn't like him.
I would love to see an episode regarding making the best out of mandatory counseling/therapy. The entire approach is shifted due to that thorny "M" word. A mistake shouldn't define the entire relationship between two people, but it almost entirely does in required Counseling. A good movie for that might be Antwon Fisher. I'm always so proud of a fictional Navy seaman who decided not to let his past define his direction.
The only note I have about her is that she used a notebook during Bucky's one on one. Which is pretty inappropriate given his trauma.
I agree with all of this, but I also got "exasperated mom" vibes, and I feel like that was used to portray then like bickering siblings. This wasn't just soldiers in therapy, this also was very much family therapy. On one level, as brothers in arms, but also through their relationship with Captain America .
I'm saying this for anyone who is considering pursuing a career in Psychology (or other mental health fields) and is intimidated by going into therapy. I'm putting this out there cuz I wish I had heard it sooner. Personally I always loved reading about mental health but never saw myself going into doing therapy. Lot's of times I asked myself why I'm even studying this if it's not to help individuals and create connections. I then realized that there are important paths in this field through research and teaching. Even with those paths you will be helping others and give them the tools and experience they need to do the work of giving therapy or whatever journey this field will take them. Research can also lead to improving public policies and health care systems. I've been working as a researcher and Psych research lab supervisor for about 4 years now and it took me a while to realize that these areas are important too. Props to all of the therapists and clinical folks out there!
8:51 The thing about the "Wednesday" therapy scene is that as someone who's autistic, I've met with lots of professionals to discuss behaviors and such. But sometimes I've had people who are so overly friendly that it kind of freaks me out, like Dr. Kinbott. Once a doctor asked me (granted, this was in 2021, so it was just coming out of COVID), "Do you have any friends?" as if I was a complete loner. I mean, I am an introvert, but I wasn't THAT withdrawn. In high school, a person would come into my math class and talk about mental health, but her methods were not the most stress-relieving for me. Like when she told us to "clear our minds and think about nothing," as someone who's autistic and whose brain is like a search-engine, I can't NOT think about anything. I feel calm when I'm outdoors, that's how I relieve stress and anxiety. But I know that what works for one person doesn't work for another person, cause everyone's on a different level. It just bugged me that the Mental Health Specialist acted like she knew how to help all us students' mental health, but she really didn't, at least not what worked for ME.
Have you looked into Adventure Therapy? It sounds like it would be right up your alley.
Thank you for your perspective! I appreciate learning.
My favorite tv therapist growing up was Dr Sydney Freeman from MASH. There’s an episode that always makes me tear up where a soldier can’t come to terms with the fact that his brother died and they recreate the incident in a safe environment. It’s a heart wrenching moment.
Sydney is great! The fact that when his life, and job, gets too much for him he goes *to* the 4077 for R&R always makes me laugh.
And at the end of that show... Just... Damn, having to see what's left of the people that he clearly Loves dearly.
I LOVE Sydney. If they do him, I hope they steer well clear of Goodbye, Farewell, and Amen. Or do him in the show and the series finale. I'd like to see the insight on how Sydney deals with people who are coping, not so much on how he deals with someone detained for care for what is a pretty fantastic scenario (though probably also a true story).
“Dear Sigmund.” That’s the episode.
@@templarw20Agree 💯
Yes!! Sydney is incredible! "Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice: Pull down your pants when you slide on the ice." Such a silly man with wonderful empathy and wisdom.
With regards to Jono's discussion about how he learned how to help people from his mom, before he was a licensed therapist... I am by no means a mental health professional, but I've worked in a variety of roles over the years that sometimes have me dealing with mental-health issues. (I was the one-person call center for an infertility patient resource for a while, and I've done reception at a small church for several years.) My first thought when I had people call me in distress is "wow, I'm completely untrained for this!" But often, what the people need is just someone to sit with them, affirm their pain, and let them know that their feelings are valid. Obviously, having someone listen and then say, "wow, that sounds really rough, I'm so sorry you're going through that" is not a substitute for therapy, but you'd be surprised at how often it works to help with the immediate situation.
I've definitely told many people to just go spend time with 7 Cups of Tea or something similar, and/or otherwise validated people who have bemoaned how much trying many professionals hasn't yet helped them because the professionals they have found so far have been too eggheady about their stuff or tried to be all "doctor" but without actually going with them--rather, going ahead, and doing diagnosing but without actually connecting, as Jono says...I put it as, "sometimes you need a professional and sometimes you need a medicine and sometimes you need information, and sometimes you just need a human being to be a human being and to treat you like a human being."
In Treatment was the only show that I really connected to as a therapist show (growing up) because 1) Gabriel Byrne 2) he did come cross lines at a time when I wanted to be saved and I felt like no one cared about me. Shrinking is absolutely my favorite Psychiatrist show now, also because it fits where I am now but In Treatment still holds a fondness in my heart. I think it was also the first show I saw a therapist go to a therapist and understood what a necessary asset that was.
I loved in treatment as well. It still amazes me that when the millionaire ceo broke down, I was crying with him. He started as a character who would only irritate me if I met him in real life.
I'd love to see a review of the series "In Treatment", starring Gabriel Byrne. Each season dealt with the treatment of a few patients, who were in sessions for that season only. It portrayed the range of therapy from early or first sessions, to the end of treatment for the patients or couples. Excellent series.
Seconding!
Loved this episode, as I do all your videos. Would love to hear what you think of "In Treatment".
Yes, would be interesting to get a professional's take on that one.
Just want to say, the power of a hug when you're hurting can never be overestimated. A mere hug, be it from my wife, a friend, even my 'boss' (who is a wonderful understanding person), heck even a 'stranger' (not as in a random off the street, a therapist or similar), has helped bring me back from some dark places.
Eye contact, loving physical contact, and focused attention...I say these things to people of all ages all day long on social media (specific wording courtesy of Ross Campbell).
When I was 12 a teacher from school was struggling with depression (I did not know that), she missed a couple of classes and when she came back I was so happy to see her I went on and hugged her. I forgot about that for years but when I was graduating from school she came to see me and told me she was really grateful because my hug gave her strength and will to seek help. Hugs can go a long way
@@mmkvoe6342 - I completely disagree about eye contact. It always makes me feel extremely uncomfortable to the point where can only do it for moments at a time. I does not solve anything for me.
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@anainesgonzalez8868 - On the other hand, there are few things that feel as wonderful and as fulfilling to me as an thorough hug.
@@anainesgonzalez8868That's beautiful.
@@anainesgonzalez8868 the schools I went to didn't allow hugging between students and teachers. I never felt a connection with any of my teachers, even the good ones. School always felt cold and impersonal. I assumed it was like that everywhere for everyone. Now I'm kind of sad. I'm glad you had a bond with your teacher though. What a sweet story.
Another vote for “The King’s Speech”!!!
Also, the therapists in “Big Little Lies” and “This Is Us” (later seasons) make me really happy because they’re realistic! 😊
Also in This is us they show how to find a good fit and it is really interesting
Kings Speech omg yesssss
Bonus points if you have an actual speech language pathologist who specializes in fluency join you to discuss the techniques
I love This is Us
Kings speech is so freaking good
As a teen I had a therapist that was a lot like Wednesday’s with the sugary sweet overtones.
Coming from a broken abusive home and being a teen it made me feel like my turmoil was not taken seriously and I was being treated as infantile.
That might not have been the therapists intention and her heart might have been in the right place, but coming at problems with sweet overtones can really be off putting if someone is struggling. If I were to go to therapy again I probably would not go to a therapist with that style.
I would love you to talk about the TV series Crazy Ex Girlfriend, like Rebecca seeing her therapist, and the musical scenes being a manifestation of her mind, and her relationship with her mom, or here friends, or the men she dates. I would also love to see you dicuss Never Have I Ever, with Devi and her therapist, and Devi's grief and anger issues, it even Nalani and her grief and relationship with Devi. I think both these shows could provide some great discussion topics.
The scene with sam and Bucky in TFATWS is heartbreaking to me. Seeing Bucky be terrified that Steve was wrong about him. You also have to remember that that was all court appointed therapy so he didn’t really get to decide who his therapist was. thats probably also why the Dr was really just emotionless.
Agreed. Totally agreed. That's literally Bucky's problem. He does not and cannot view himself as the victim he is because everyone tells him he is an evil monster- including himself. He's literally weighed down in guilt, shame and self-loathing because of that so he cannot learn to forgive himself and begin to heal.
The only people who really helped him in that regard were the Wakandans, and the woman who helped remove HYDRA's programming from his mind whose name I always forget.
The way that Sam dismisses his fears in this scene would actually be really harmful and the therapist should have known better than to not follow it up either. What could actually have been a very good moment which was meaninful for trauma victims was sacrificed for the sake of cheap laughs.
I think the best therapist I ever saw was one who was able to be blunt and that was just who she was. At the time I really avoided dealing with things and let people walk over me. She built up my self confidence and wasn't afraid to call me out when I was avoiding dealing with something or trying to stall. Not only that, but while it might be argued to be unprofessional but when I was with my ex, who was a true top tier asshole, I was telling her about some of the stuff he had said (won't go into details but they were terrible, too much to write down), she just paused and in shock and disgust said "what...the...hell?" And for me, her showing the exact feelings I was avoided gave me a revalation, my feelings were valid, I wasnt overthinking it or being too sensitive like I was being told. Now adays, I think she knew that I just needed that push, to be able to say it out loud. We have since parted, and it's been a couple years. But oh boy, she'd be proud. I have done a 180 in no small part due to her. So shout out to Kelsey, you changed my life for the better.
Really goes to show what a good therapist who matches your personality/needs can do.
Yeah sounds like you ex was gaslighting you.
The therapist that helped me and changed my life forever was also very blunt and straightforward, but also very validating. That was exactly what I needed
I've had a couple therapists who had jaw-drop moments and they all apologized for being unprofessional, and my response was always "actually, that was really validating. Thank you," because my family always made me feel like I was making a big deal out of nothing and that shocked reaction was a lot easier for me to trust than a more careful sympathy/affirmation.
I had a Wednesday experience, in high school. I knew very well, that my counselor could only know for sure, what I gave her. She was probably in her 20's when I was in my teens.
I never opened up her, and I never regretted it. But all these years later, I still appreciate her.
I can verify as someone that's been in therapy for about a year for grief. It's important to find the right therapist. I went through five of them then finally found someone who understands the queer community. We mostly chit chat but then she offers me a pointed question that makes me think about stuff. It's been fantastic.
I love that, in the subtitles during the Frasier scene, René Auberjonois's character (Professor William Tewksbury) is referred to as just "Odo" because his performance in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine is so iconic.
Rest in Power, René.
I’d love to see you guys watch and unpack “The Boy, the Mole, the Fox, and the Horse.” Soooooo many amazingly impactful one-liners. I cry uncontrollably every time when the boy says to the horse “I think you believe in me more than I do,” and the horse replies with “You’ll catch up.”
Frasier is one of my favourite shows. How it can pack witticisms and slapstick into the same thirty minutes as it does heartearming and tearjerking scenes is truly unmatched. One minute I'm giggling over Frasier interviewing himself, the other I'm on the verge of crying when he admits he doesn't know how to help himself
I also love Frasier and have watched it waaay too many times. Ham Radio is personal my favorite episode. “Could the McCallister sisters stand back to back; I’m short on bullets” 😂
They are all top notch actors and of course the writing was second to none
As someone who worked in adult mental health, I agreed with your takes for sure! I also wanted to add that the other thing I don't like about the "soul gazing" technique that Dr. Raynor used is that it's not neurodivergent friendly. A lot of neurodivergent people can feel uncomfortable with direct eye contact or it can just make it really hard for them to focus on anything else but the eye contact, especially when it's prolonged and forced so that can actually further shut them down (this is obviously not every neurodivergent person, but, speaking as someone who was a mental health professional, now works with neurodivergent kids, and I also am neurodivergent, it is a pretty common thing).
In terms of good therapists, I appreciate Black Canary from Young Justice: Phantoms, who both broke through Garfield's (Beast Boy's) deflection and did so while putting him in a safe place to discuss his trauma.
Man, I love that scene so much. Her talking with the team in S1 after that botched training exercise is really good too.
yes!! i always come back to those scenes
I love her to peaces
It would be really fun to see a villain therapy episode on Hannibal Lecter (either show or movies).
YES PLEASE
Honestly would be better for a “let’s deconstruct what happened here” type episode, not villain therapy. I’m not sure there would be much you could therapize there because the man is a sociopath with zero empathy, high intellect, high knowledge of therapy + techniques. You can’t help someone who does not want help, and Lecter’s philosophy and sense of self are coherent and self-justified. (Caveat that I’ve only looked at the films, not the show or the books.)
I think the most interesting therapist relationship I've seen on TV is from the show the patient. It's basically a serial killer getting therapy and the therapist is held captive.
Hi Jonathan. I am a psychiatric nurse practitioner, I also have an MA in Psychology, am working in my PhD in forensic psychology and have been working in the field for over 30 years. I enjoy watching cinema therapy since I love psychology as much as I love movies and characters. I have taught graduate classes and often have students watch movies to improve their skills. I agree 100% on your assessment of these “therapists”. I recall watch FATWS thinking the scene was funny but the therapist has burn out and experiencing compassion fatigue. Thank you and Alan for your show!
Odo was in Frasier?!?! What a happy discovery, and it's great the character used Rene's acting strengths.
In another sci-fi show, Orville, the ship's therapist had to get an alien warring culture to understand marriage counseling. She compared it to a peace treaty, and they understood. It's a short scene, but it's a very colorful way to show how a therapist can adapt and connect with a patient (or a couple).
Even if I know that, of course, actors play other characters in other movies/TV shows, it is always a pleasure to have these kind of surprises recognizing them, especially when look different.
In Rene's case it happens even on the same show, DS9, if you remember! There is one episode where Sisko is having some sort of vision, and he lives in the 1930's (?) era, and those around him are portrayed by the same people he is surrounded by in reality. Using the same actors in that kind of context is not new, but I always find that interesting. Anyway, when Rene's character appeared, I didn't know who he was supposed to be, until he started speaking. The same with Armin Shimerman (Quark). They were unrecognizable without all the prosthetics!
She also got a robot to understand how his suicide affected his crew
@@Hawner Yes! From Beyond the Stars. 1950's is more accurate, but it's a fun episode. A couple of shows to check out is the movie Dirty Harry, with Garak as the villain, and Seinfeld episode The Caddy, with Quark.
@@katielee7897 Dude, yes! That scene! And the extra bit of them as former lovers gave their conversation extra bite.
He was also the chef in the Little Mermaid ("Les Poissons")
3:50 Having suffered from suicidal ideation in the past, that's exactly what was going through my head and the main thing stopping me was thinking about the financial burden my death would cause
That's so selfless❤❤❤
Not a specialist, but my sense of the Falcon/Winter Soldier session was that the therapist was trying to match their energy or meet them where they were. I haven't seen the show, so I have no context for their other sessions (if any), but this one felt like such a big admission in so few words could only be met with distance and then regrouping for a longer, more cathartic conversation. So, if she had come at them with cheeriness or even empathy, they would have closed off even more. Hope this makes sense!
The scene was compressed here, presumably for time purposes to give you the most important points in the scene and get an idea of character dynamics. Dr Raynor is a therapist who specializes in therapy with combat veterans, and she is assigned to Bucky in court-ordered therapy. Sam is also a combat veteran who's worked for the VA as a therapist himself.
"If he was wrong about you, then he was wrong about me" comes towards the end of the second episode, and, when I first saw it, that line and delivery took my breath away, because, aside from a brief scene in a previous film with Captain America, ("I'm not worth all this.") it's really the first time in all of the MCU that we get a REAL insight into what's going on in Bucky's head.
THANK YOU SO MUCH for including Frasier!!! That scene broke my heart when I first saw it and it is still haunted me since. So powerful!
I loved my therapist, who unfortunately committed suicide and its been five long years and I still feel his loss every single day. But Jonathan, you and Alan (nope not leaving you out), you guys with this channel make me feel so much better on a daily basis. I have a new therapist, but he's older than I am and doesn't understand sometimes the things I am talking about so its harder to make a connection. You guys, help me with connections and help me realize through what you're discussing the person I want to be. You two, bring hope, joy and understanding to so many people on the internet that they may not get from their family or friends, and for that, I love you both, and wish you all the best in your lives. Thank you for your channel, and bringing hope to so many.
This is why I don't trust therapists. If they're not mentally healthy themselves how am I supposed to trust them with my mental health?
As a therapist who deals With depression, it's enlightening me seeing the effect that can have. Glad you also made it through that time
A sentiment I share 10000% this channel is my way of letting myself feel and process all the bad without loosing sight of the good
George Huang from SVU: He was one of the reasons I first got interested in psychology.
Hey Jono, long time watcher now and also a psychotherapist. I didn't find myself disagreeing with anything you said but I want to shout out your reflection about your mom and her influence on your compassion. I 100% feel the same way. The data and the skills taught me how to care but it was my life that taught me why. Thank you to both of you for all you do!
As a therapist, I'd love to see your opinion on the Devil-therapist relationship in the Lucifer series. Especially as she shifts from "this is a person using the idea that he's the devil to work through his emotional issues' to 'OMG, he really IS the actual devil!'....and then moves past that to real friendship.
I really love the way how Jonathan talks about his mother, it's make me cry a little. Another amazing video of you two, full of knowledge and understanding👏👏
I’m a nurse and have learned so much theory, education and concrete assessment tactics and interventions in relation to the tasks and care we provide for the people we work with. And yet I still, over and over again, come to the conclusion that the real connections, the real healing, the real reason for why I keep working in a helping profession that is too hard to do a lot of the time is the humanness of it. So much of it has so little to do with how much you can memorize and how to apply that; and has so much to do with the innate ability within yourself to connect with another human being. It’s so rarely spoken about (because obviously the literature behind technique is important), and obviously every health care profession is different, but it is so lovely to hear this sentiment said out loud.
Kindly said
I love Dr. Frome, I watch New Amsterdam just for him. His character is so real and validating for the whole psychological community, and I just love how he humanizes people who would normally be demonized or be written off as crazy
I've loved watching Frasier for years, and that episode makes me cry every time...
I think you'd like the therapy sessions in Tuca and Bertie, when Bertie decides to get therapy for a traumatic moment in her childhood (specifically CSA). She shops around for therapists and ends up finding one who is a good fit for Bertie's personality. What I like most about the therapist is that she doesn’t dress up what happened in vague, downplaying language, like everyone else in Bertie's life had. She calls it what it is, an assault. It helps give Bertie direction to address what happened to her, and her therapist reassures her that she's not broken, that everyone has their timeline for processing trauma, and even then sometimes we get blindsided by our feelings.
I think it is important to recognize a client's autonomy over a situation. Proper Language is a huge part of that autonomy!
I told my therapist about Tuca & Bertie! I love that show so much -especially as someone who happens to be a 30-something baker! 😆 That episode where Bertie's parts keep mixing up and rearranging is such a beautiful portrayal of what therapy can feel like sometimes.
I’ve had multiple therapists, but if I ever had one like dr. Kinbott (Wednesday) I would turn and run for the hills. I couldn’t handle the sickly sweet vibe.
I don't plan on becoming a therapist due to having trouble dealing with my own emotions, but I really look up to Jono here because he gives me insight that I use to listen to my friends whose parents don't believe in therapy/can't afford therapy. Being the "therapist friend" is extremely fulfilling because I get to simply *be there* for my friends, and I wouldn't know how to do it as well as I am without these videos.
I'd love to see you react to This is Us, so many family dynamics at play in that show. A scene in particular would be the family therapy scene from the episode The Fifth Wheel
As a LCSW, I tell my clients all the time they can choose someone else if I am not working out. And they will not hurt my feelings if they say they don't like me or something like that. I work with children and seeing their faces light up when I tell them this or them sit up straighter like a weight has been lifted is one of the best gifts about being a therapist. I know Jonathan is a Buffy fan and so am I. I am curious about his thoughts regarding a certain character's return from the dead in season 6 and how that is dealt with throughout the season.
ETA: I would also like to see them react to the Buffy season 7 episode "Conversations with Dead People". Particularly, the graveyard scenes.
This was such a great episode! It made me realise I would LOVE to see the two of you cover The King’s Speech (2010). Alan discussing the incredible filmmaking and Jonathan analysing Lionel’s techniques as a speech therapist would be amazing! Lionel definitely does a lot of ‘unclogging’ to improve the ‘flow’… the scene where they drink together and the breakthrough around St Edward’s Chair come to mind in particular.
Yes BUT we need a licensed speech pathologist / speech therapist to weigh in
@@flux.aeterna Good point. They should bring in a speech therapist as a guest.
Good suggestion. Excellent movie, excellent story, excellent acting. I love the scene at the end when the King first is walking to the radio booth, and then walking from the radio booth. Such good acting.
I fifth this notion
Jono is so right that it's not just the techniques but more importantly the human connection that makes a good therapist. I like mine because I feel like she really gets me, and she lets glimpses of her real self through, so it feels like I'm talking with a friend almost, not this cold clinical doctor.
Love that you're getting into New Amsterdam. It gets a little (or a lot) soapy but it does a good job showing how the characters' private lives influence their professional lives. Privately, Dr. Frome is a mess, and in him Tyler Labine finally found a character to play that wasn't Budget Jack Black.
I kinda disagree with the A- for Wednesday’s therapist, and here’s why:
All of the things she says ring true, but they’re just not connecting with Wednesday at all. Instead they sound hollow, like a facade made up of the idea of therapy. It’s only further enforcing how much Wednesday doesn’t want to be there, how therapy is forced upon her not for the sake of connection or help, but to make her „not be a psycho“. Adding to that, Wednesday never published or even showed anyone the manuscript of her novel. To have this therapist, who’s a complete stranger to Wednesday and may not even have her best interest in mind, read something so personal without Wednesday knowing or consenting, is a huge betrayal of her trust. You can actually see in her face how (rightfully) done she is.
I would say the quality of therapy in this show is about C level. The therapist seems to genuinely want to help (though maybe just help her to be normal?), but she’s not connecting with Wednesday at all. What she says in order to connect/win her over/get Wednesday to open up, it only makes her build up more walls, feel misunderstood and emotionally unsafe.
I agree, I enjoy writing and I would've reacted exactly like Wednesday before immediately leaving
@@bellaknightR597 I feel that
I love that Alan is always in tears like me when I watch your videos. I love to see others feel as strongly as I do… I feel less silly about doing it.
The Frasier Crane episode is valid. However, consider that he was there for Roz, as a therapist, during the Spokane station launch when she says she felt like nothing, after her breakup with Roger. That episode always makes me cry.
As a therapist who has worked with a lot of young people who have been brutalized & then disbelieved by law enforcement, the therapy scene at the end of episode 7 of "Unbelievable" is a brilliant piece of writing and I think very realistic, especially with how the therapist uses silence & giving space to a client. If you do another one of these episodes, I would suggest including it.
Also, I loved loved the therapist in Ted Lasso. I thought she was brilliant, & Iggy off "New Amsterdam" is one of my tv favorites because I love love the way the writers have him approach working with teens inpatient (which is I currently do for work).
I'd love to see you take on more Frasier, actually. I'd like to see a comparison between the advice he gives, and the way he conducts his own life. Is he a good therapist when he's helping other people? What advice would you give to him to help him deal with his own issues? That kind of thing.
I mean...that was the whole basis for the show though, that he gave all this good advice and therapy but didn't always follow it for his own life. That's basically every episode.
@@LittleHobbit13 Yes, but when it originally aired, I don't think the general public understood how great therapy can be for so many people and so many situations.
I'd love to see it, and it has a tie to the present day because the sequel series is out.
Weirdly, I think a study of Niles would be easier, especially into the later seasons. He frequently goes into psychologist mode with other characters over coffee, casually helping them break down their troubles and gives really good advice while Frasier is having another meltdown over how he's going to con someone into dating him.
@@LittleHobbit13 Another take could be that not all advice and therapy will work equally on different people, and that's why all of Frasier knowledge and therapy can't help him with his own emptiness. A lot of comedy does come from him ignoring his own advice though. Incredible show.
About dr kinbott: I thought she stepped over some boundaries, especially when she mentioned the book. Question after question, I just felt like maybe wednesday needed a moment to breathe. As a fellow creative, reading wednesday's book and bringing it up... I saw that scene and felt the invasion of privacy as if it were mine. Especially if wednesday is basically writing about herself, it's like the therapist read her diary and then brought it up. And then when she leans in, I didn't see it as her bravery or anything, I felt like she was invading wednesday's personal space both emotionally and physically. The camera always so close to both of their faces felt like they were communicating this feeling of being trapped and too close. It felt super uncomfortable.
The one with the boy dealing with cancer ripped me apart. My own son has been fighting Burkkit's Lymphoma for over 6 months. The out look is very positive. So far the huge tumor near his colon is gone and the polyps and spots on his bones are showing as inactive. He has his last pet scan ( for now) on the 4th. That scene.. heartbreaking.
Blessings on you, your son, and everyone connected with him! May you all find healing filling you in the best ways, ways that you might not excpect.
@@louisegogel7973 On April 1st my son had his port removed! My boy beat the f#@king odds! It may come back in his later years. But not today!!
@@louisegogel7973 I feel as if something greater than myself took the weight from my shoulders.
Internet Dads, thank you! ❤ I've been watching your videos for a long time now and BOY, have they always helped in some way! Be it learning about the finer details in movies/shows to therapeutic self reflection!!
This one was very helpful in the segment where you speak about finding the right therapist, thank you!! Really grateful to you guys for helping the general population witness that therapy can be right, actually fruitful and FUN!! ❤
So glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching!
This may be an obvious one, but I would *love* for you to share your thoughts on Counselor Troi from Star Trek: The Next Generation. You don't get a ton of "full" therapy session scenes with her, but a couple of stand out ones would be her scene in the season 6 finale episode "Descent Part 1" where she counsels Data on how to handle emotion. Or even her conversation with Guinan in the episode "the loss" where Guinan acts more like a therapist, counseling Troi on how she can still be a therapist without her empathic abilities.
I would argue that Troi is a bit of a moot point, since she's psychic. It puts an unreal dynamic into play; she shouldn't be able to lose and if she does that's even more out there. But I think taking a look at Guinan would be a great idea, the whole bartenders as therapists trope.
@@adde9506 That's a fair point. Which is part of the reason I specified a scene where she counsels Data, someone she can't use her "psychic" abilities on.
One thing I’ve noticed is the times you’ve discussed Doctor Raynor as a therapist you use the scene with Sam and Bucky in the jail room, while I really think the better scene to show her therapy techniques is the first scene with Bucky in episode one. Does this show her to be a better therapist? No, honestly it probably makes her seem a bit worse. But we get a bit more of her therapy techniques, her backstory, and a little touch of her humanity. Obviously you can’t change the video now- just something I wanted to bring up
Plus it gives context to the line they didn't include at the end of the scene they discussed, when you see it really was a breakthrough for Bucky. He realizes he hurt someone, even if he didn't mean to.
Also I'm assuming that she is a therapist for military vets which I thought explains for her attitude. 😂
YES OMG PLEASE USE HER BETTER SCENE TO SEE WHY SHE WORKS FOR BUCKY!!!!
She's honestly not a good therapist, she's too pushy and Bucky doesn't like to talk to her because he doesn't feel like he can trust her enough to open up considering how pushy, condescending, and rude she can be. She makes fun of Bucky for having no friends which pissed me off. She's clearly there not to help him but to evaluate him, which is why she's there, but its not therapy.
@@LethalByChoice Nicque Marina did an amazing takedown of Raynor, apparently military therapists are utter crap, because they don't actually care about healing you, just getting you cleared of whatever got you assigned to them as fast as possible to go back out there and fight. She really is a monstrously garbage therapist.
Hey! Let's loudly and pointedly wave a notebook around and write things in it when your client is THE WINTER SOLDIER, a former brainwashed POW who extremely specifically HAD A NOTEBOOK WITH HIS CODE WORDS IN IT. JFC I want to punch her so hard it's not funny.
As a LCMHC (replaced the LPC name) and an LCAS, I enjoy your perspective and agree with a lot of it. I also encourage folks to shop around for their therapist/AA/NA meeting/psychiatrist . . . . I liken it to buying a pair of pants, you don't want them too tight, or too loose. You want them to fit comfortably. The majority of my over 23 years working in this field (pre-degree and post-degree) has been spent in crisis work. But even there, we've got to do quick rapport building, get them the appropriate help/support and try our best to help them stay safe.
In regards to the hug, I'd like to know how much emotion a therapist is permitted to show. I'm sure some of the stories they hear are heartbreaking. Also, I second covering Iroh from The Last Airbender.
Great question, as having strict boundaries is especially important for therapists. I've worked as a Social Worker, and it's hard line to balance, as you may see people during the worst times of their life. While working in A Busy ER, a big part of the job was supporting families. And it included making the death notification, while the Docs got to make the announcement, it was our job to help those families process the heartbreaking news. And, instinctively, I hugged those people for as long as they needed it. However, this isn't something I would practice with long-term clients. U kinda learn techniques which doesn't require extended physical contact. And for me, as a Young Woman, that felt safest. Hope that answers your question.
I am planning to go back to school (at 37; Very nervous!) to pursue a career as a mental health counselor. I LOVE Cinema Therapy, but this episode in particular was interesting to me as someone aspiring to do this for the rest of their days. If you want to do more content in the future that focuses on therapy as a profession, I will be incredibly grateful! 🙏 Thank you for all that you do with this channel. It has been a strong positive force in my life.
My therapist was a biology Professor until he was about 50. I think he absolutly profited from having different experiences. Good luck to you!
Jonathan has his own channel called Mended Light that is more centered on his work.
Amen to this! I'm training in a marriage and family therapy program and will be working on getting my license in the next 2 years. Seriously, I benefit a lot from this channel and get a lot of valuable principles and insight from y'all. It makes me laugh, smile, feel grateful, and sometimes feel good things watching these videos and learning from you both. Thank you so much for your presence and your heart, both of you are amazing!!
I'm 35 and thinking about doing the same. Thank you for sharing that--makes me feel a little less crazy!
The one thing that I don't see reaction channels catch on with the "Falcon & the Winter Soldier" Dr. Raynor scenes is that Raynor is not a typical therapist. She's a military veteran who specializes in treating veterans. So she was "one of the guys" and knows how to talk to them. It's a different style, a different language, and a different way to process.
I'm not a therapist, but I was a soldier. Without getting preachy about stuff, you really can tell when talking to another veteran. It's just a different language, both verbally and body-language style.
It's just something I think should be taken into account when looking at those scenes.
Yeah. Bucky is never going to open up to a regular therapist's nicey nice approach. He has severe combat PTSD; but also, complex grief from lossing his family, abandonment issues from Steve leaving, survivors guilt for living through what HYDRA did to him, was psychologically manipulated like someone that's been in a cult, and he survived torture.
Man needs understanding; but, like Sam says in a latter episode 'tough love'. Raynor won't let Bucky deflect with sarcasm and won't simply allow him to shutdown; disassocition being Bucky's default mental state for years.
@@melissaharris3389 @bad_wolf_media It's not Dr Raynor's attitude that bothers me - her directness, her no "bs" attitude is what the two of them need, especially Bucky. However what I take issue with was her approach. The Amends List like he was an alcoholic. The problem with Bucky is he wasn't just a WWII vet with (C)PTSD, he wasn't just someone who has survivors guilt. The severe manipulation and psychological (as well as physical) torture he experienced - you can't just boil it down to "say sorry to people".
Great episode. My favorite all-time Therapy based program is HBO’s In Treatment which was based upon an Academy award-winning Israeli show called BeTipul which I have not seen.
Three seasons, starring Gabriel Byrne as the therapist and the daily format of each patient on each day is so enthralling, and Friday is when the therapist goes to a therapist and his therapist is Dianne Wiest.
Then the show came back for a season with a new Therapist played by Uzo Aduba.
I truly received therapy from watching these riveting 20 minute episodes.
I wish you would do an episode about In Treatment
Therapist here. Big fan of your videos. When you said “my mom taught me that” I cried. Thanks for reminding me of that. ❤
I'm a therapist and was so frustrated with Dr Raynor when I saw Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I started to wonder if she loved someone who was killed by the Winter Soldier, with how cold she was to Bucky. Also, I loved and agreed with your assessments. I'd love to see you react to the therapists in This is Us - first the one who does family therapy with Kevin, and then the one that Randall sees individually.
makes the impromptu therapy sesh Buck had with Sam near the end a lot better.
I love This is Us examples!
Not a clinician, but I actually really resonate with Dr. Raynor! She may seem fed up in that scene because she just got called to bail her client out of prison, but I don't think it says her heart isn't in it. She has already established a really good rapport with Bucky and knows he responds best to being called out DIRECTLY for his bullshit. Also she's his court mandated therapist, so she knows the stakes and wants him to not get sent back to prison.
There's a TV show called Common Law (not current, and I was very sad when it got cancelled) that is about a pair of police partners who are forced to go to couples' therapy because they are really good at solving crimes together but really bad at getting along. It is hilarious, and I would love to see an analysis of an episode or two!
I'm so happy to finally hear, that Allan has actually got the therapist that he always says he needs ❤️
If y'all are branching out into TV, I want to see some good and bad parenting.
I was rewatching "The Nanny" of all things recently and in addition to how well much of the humor held up for a show from the 90s, I realized how many positive behaviors I was seeing in Nanny Fine's interactions with the kids that you still don't see enough in media. (While still leaning into the screwball comedy.)
Omg yes! And Mr. Belvedere too!
Bluey. I swear that show is for parents, not kids.
I really wish future series and movies helps deconstruct therapy as a bad thing, that only "loosers" need it. When I heard from a friend that in the pandemic he "even had to do therapy", like it is a terrible thing, was a stinger, specially for someone diagnosed with depression.
Doing therapy is beautiful, having the change to learn more about yourself is wonderful and takes courage. A LOT of courage.
I had no real doubt but these factors have made me realise how good my therapist is. I've had two really good therapists, and a few short lived really bad ones. The bad ones were disinterested and only offered text book "fixes". It's so important to find the right people to help.
Watching the whole video and especially the section starting from 23:40 .. really put a different perspective in understand how therapy works and what I should do if the match isn't there. I have autism, anxiety (most notably social anxiety), PTSD and episodes of depression that come and go. I'm from Belgium and recently have been going through my first ever therapy. I've had 4 sessions that were 2 hours long of me talking about what's on my mind regarding past trauma's, presents struggles and the fear of the future. I thought I've said everything I could to give a better picture and questions on what I need help with, as right now it feels like a stage of figuring things out before giving me the right treatment. Which I do understand... but with the financial strain and me feeling so stuck and fed up with the pain of my trauma that took away my passion for drawing that I am scared to pick up again for a decade..
This video helped me understand that therapy.. is going to be a long journey of figuring things out yourself by using the right questions to get to a breakthrough with the help of the therapist. So thank you for putting a better perspective for me, I'll have my next session tomorrow as of typing this and I hope to be more patient with my therapist... but mostly being patient with my recovery.
Someone already mentioned Dr. Akopian from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, and I second that motion.
On another thought, I’d love for you to include Devi’s therapist Dr. Jamie Ryan on Never Have I Ever, how she counsels her through her grief after losing her dad and mainly just teenage angst. I think she did a wonderful job trying to meet her where she was at and pushing her through to catharsis.
I have a suggestion. This is a game, but it's called Until Dawn. It's a narrative story based game, but there is a Therapist named Dr. Hill. He gives off some suggestive vibes and even more confusing therapist tactics. He uses pictures, and trauma related questions as his main tactic.
I'm not sure that I would go with Dr. Hill because of the "unreliable narrator" component. (Or at least that's how I took it)
Dr. Hill was 100% the best part of Until Dawn. His scenes were captivating. Yes, all a figment of Josh's imagination, and therefore unreliable, but probably heavily based on the real therapist Josh saw during that one year. I'd love to see them do even a small segment on this!
@CleoVonGem that's why it would be interesting. It's obvious by chapter 8 that is in imaginary, but that doesn’t mean that his tactics aren't valid therapy points. And Until Dawn, despite being a game, is designed almost like a movie.
Why are these ad reads always so good?
Specifically, why does Jonno always do them so well and entertainingly?!
Awww, shucks.