Armaguerra Model 1939 Semiauto Rifle
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Cool Forgotten Weapons Merch! shop.bbtv.com/c...
The Italian army actually adopted a semiautomatic rifle in 1939: this Armaguerra Model 1939. It was intended to supplant the M38 Carcano bolt actions, but ultimately never managed to get into mass production.
The rifle was adopted initially in the new 7.35mm cartridge, and then quickly cancelled, as the new cartridge was dropped for logistical and financial reasons. This was not an immediate problem for the company, as they did not have a rifle factory in operation anyway - they began building one in Cremona only after receiving an initial order for 10,000 of the rifles. In the wake of the caliber change, the Armaguerra rifle was quickly redesigned for the 6.5x52mm cartridge. Ultimately only about 100 were made, and the factory was retooled to produce Carcano bolt action rifles instead.
Mechanically, the Armaguerra 1939 is a short recoil action with a pivoting locking block similar in principle to the Walther P38 pistol. It is a sleek weapon, using the front sling swivel as charging handle and thus avoiding any protrusions out from the sides of the action. It feeds from standard Carcano 6-round en bloc clips.
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Ok guys, at long last, we've got the contract. We assembled a skilled crew and we've got the factory set up. We're ready to make some rifles. Now I'm just going to read this urgent letter from the government and we'll get started.
Whats the context for this, Good Sir?
@@brandonblackfyre5783 The context is the rifle entered widescale production in 1943, the same year that the Italian government capitulated in on September 8th. After that, the Germans invaded and the country became embroiled in a civil war, so the capacity to produce the rifle went to virtually nil right as it started rolling off the assembly line
@@stefanocolbertelli Actually its even worse as mentioned in the video, it happened twice- first in 1940 then after the redesign in '43
That bolt closes so hard it makes me fear that it would slam-fire the cartridge after chambering it
The bolt has moved forward, this weapon has fired.
@@fan9775 Wasn't that what Grandmaster Urkel said?
@@sharonrigs7999 It was some dude talking about a weapon malfunction, but poorly
@@fan9775 Yes. The ' leader ' of the NFAC who has the only open bolt AR in the world 🤣
The garand bolt is heavy, no?
we'll miss you Universal Disassembly Tool.
Very sleek design there, just god help the poor Italian fellow who got Armaguerra thumb!
I guess that happened when the inspector took a look at gun no. 100 without reading the manual. "Secretary, call me a doctor. And then cancel that #$! rifle!"
Funny Farmer funny but no that was due to the limits of Italian industry. Italy wasn't supposed to be ready for war until 1945 but Hitler declared war early.
@@TheAngelobarker Well, yes but Mussolini didn't HAVE to declare war. He thought it'd all be over before '45 and there needed to be some 'Italian blood' shed.
@@fuzzydunlop7928 read up a bit more m8 after the deferral with poland hitler said he would hreak the alliance and invade.
@@TheAngelobarker Okay, I'll read up a bit. Give me your sources, I'll check them out.
RIP Universal Dissasembly Tool
It perished with honor.
F
As rare as these are it seems they were still given an identification number in German recognition manuals: Selbstladegewehr 208(i) or SlGew 208(i).
So did this gun ever saw action in actual war?
The Germans issued all the rifles they found in Italy to the Volkssturm at the end of WW2. So, given it is in the US, it is a fair chance it was collected by a US serviceman in the field.
The Heereswaffenamt project to catalog foreign weapons began before the war. Which is why weapons dating from WW1 (and earlier) which would not have been encountered in WW2 in any numbers to warrant inclusion are on the list.
My guess is that this rifle was on the list because of the attendance of German military attachés at the 1938 trials.
It may have been used by some armed guards at the factory after it was converted to manufacturing Carcanos, but it was almost certainly never used by the Germans.
This gun looks brilliant. A shame they cancelled it, if they had used this in service we could have seen this gun in top ten ww2 guns video.
maybe after revising the finger-severing bolt
reminds me of an AG 42 finger severer lol...makes the M-1 look mundane
Didn't it's production start too late? It was already 1943 and Italy was about to split in two.
Wiki says there were about 500 produced. And other source says that the Italian Social Republic used them.
@@chesterchow1 you have to press the lever first before it strikes your thumb, so there is a need for a severe user error for this to happen.
@@LoneWolf051 same as above - on M1 you can get that thumb if you don't hold onto an object. With this rifle the bolt won't close until you press a "button", since you press it with your right hand and you load such rifle with your right hand - it's unlikely to happen.
I watched the bolt close at quarter speed and it was still terrifying.
Looks like the Americans didn't quite have a monopoly on M-1 thumb.
And also the ping. Mannlicher already designed and I think a rifle was built with a enbloc clip that ejected like the garand.
It seems like these old semi autos like to try to break your thumb while loading them...
No, because you wouldnt have been able to handle one of these before you had gone through rifle training, which trains you how NOT to use it, for infantry using these , it wouldnt have been an issue
@@LoneWolf051 You should hang around an infantry unit sometime, all the training in the world doesn't stop soldiers doing things like this (or worse) on occasion.
That bolt slamming forward is impressive. Definitely don't want your finger in there,
lol
Vegas Cycling Freak First thing I thought about after seeing that bolt close is how I wouldn't want my frank and beans near it. Is that weird?
Maybe just a little...
You can probably kiss goodbye to your finger if that snaps down on it.
Garand Thumb VS Armaguerra Finger
I always appreciate your effort taking a stab at the pronunciation of all these foreign rifles you showcase. It really shows your respect for the countries that made em! Thanks for your amazingly informative videos.... actually not so much because I always find myself watching them when I need to be studying
Really like this one for its sleek lines and unique features. Shame it wasn't put into major production (to make surplus ones less expensive). At first that charging handle put me off, and relying on a sling to not break after heavy war use may be expecting a lot, but then the flip-side is - when in war, how many times are you really going to use the charging handle (as long as ammo supplies' standards are held)? It seems like the design was built around the bolt return being the core heavy-duty and reliable action. Just keep feeding it every time it goes empty, and don't use the charging handle much.
The guys at Steyr had the same idea for Mpi 69.
12:56: I guess the "Armaguerra thumb" is supposed to be even worse than the Garand's!
bellissima arma! peccato che non abbiamo continuato a svilupparla!
E' il destino di tutte le innovazioni in Italia.
mariorossiexcite hai ragione!
Il fucile era pronto all'uso ma l'Italia non aveva la capacità industriale per una rapida sostituzione delle armi in calibro 6,5. Del resto solo gli Usa riuscirono a dotare massicciamente il loro esercito di un fucile semiautomatico.
In realtà è un falso mito, neanche gli Usa riuscirono fornire M1 garant a tutte le unita, infatti nella seconda guerra mondiale venne usato anche il vecchio Springfield M1903
@@Stazzo82 Gli Springfield erano in servizio all' inizio della guerra, poi vennero completamente sostituiti entro il 1943, salvo che per i cecchini, la precisione dell' arma era leggendaria, e, per qualche misterioso motivi, la guarnigione di Panama. Tutti gli altri reparti ricevettero il Garand o la Winchester M1, d' altronde gli Springfield 1903 erano disponibili in meno di 900.000 pezzi, gli USA mobilitarono 17 milioni di soldati, per cui furono presto un anacronismo imbarazzante anche per la logistica, pur essendo ottime armi.
I really like that you pull the bolt back with the sling. that seems like a really neat low profile function that isn't nearly as unwieldy as it seems.
Ian, as usual, a very good presentation. As a native Italian speaking my first impulse would be to correct your pronunciation of the word "armaguerra" but not knowing how to present the phonetic spelling, I will limit my comments to ask you if you realize that the word "armaguerra" is not a name of the manufacturer, which is Società Anonima Revelli Manifattura Armiguerra,where "Armaguerra" is a composite word of "ARMA" or weapon "GUERRA" or war so it stands for manufacturer (of) war weapon. FYI
Noice.
Incorrect. The name of the weapon comes from the telex name of the company which was Società Anonima Revelli Manifattura Armiguerra (basically Joint Stock Company Revelli Manifacturer Armiguerra)
Most probably the full name of the company is a mouthful and they went for the short telegraphic name for ease
Ooooh that's my city right there. They're soon knocking down the defunct Armaguerra factory to make a shopping centre.
Ended up selling for $11,500 on Dec 3. 2016
Nice wood. As it should be coming out of Cremona, known for its musical instruments.
Interesting, "Armaguerra" in spanish (and maybe italian) sort of means "War Weapon". O_o
Yeah it means exactly the same in italian.
It means precisely that actually. The only difference is that in Italian you also pronounce the "u".
Armilar Zifferblatt
Yep it's those, it was the name of the company
Could have been a way to hide the nature of the weapon, a codeword in essence. Or a placeholder until a slick term for "semiautomatic infantry combat rifle" was added to the lexicon.
Alex de Moya
It was the name of the company.
DANG!!! That's some forceful bolt release action.
-Jen
I have one question left:
Did the black plastic punch survive the bolt closing? :D
You should do a red jacket firearms Ak. Everyone's forgotten about them
That company gets to stay forgotten.
Forgotten Weapons XD
Forgotten Weapons what happen with them?
Lol.
Well, the owner got arrested for multiple counts of child molestation, including his daughter....
There was more but that one alone should be enough I think.
@ 9:00 minutes, according to the website C&R ARSENAL, the Model 1940 Carcano rifle, which never went past prototype stage, was supposed to have a rear sight of 'A barrel mounted aperture rear sight; not unlike an M1 Garand'.I'm wondering if it actually wasn't THIS sight or one similar.
Info CONFIRMED ! The Italian book 'Il (The) 91' states that the M40 Carcano had an ECCENTRIC rear sight, NOT aperture !
Better the pen than your finger!
Thanks for the video! I've been a long-time viewer but the algorithm seems to be popping up some videos I've missed over the years.
We've got a Mannlicher M1886 at work, which seems to be the first to have ejected the clip after all cartridges were stripped. It's in seemingly excellent condition given its age (but is missing the safety) and bore diameter seems to be the original 11mm, with Chilean export marks and not much else. It does have chromed barrel bands and other hardware, so I suspect it was a parade rifle at one point.
Your videos are entertaining, educative and awesome! Thank you.
Ian, you should totally start selling "Forgotten Weapons" brand universal disassembly tools on your website or Patreon! I would totally buy some!
Good job Ian,,,
By the shape of the hole where the clip drops out, it must have been some unusual design.
Too bad we couldn't have seen the shells and clip...
keep up the good work. ..
It was designed to use standard Carrcano clips.
Wow I have never seen something drop the bolt that fast :0
Ha, Garand thumb has nothing on that thing. WHAM.
Wow, this thing takes Garand thumb to a whole new level. Lucky for the italians it was never produced in large numbers, or half of Italy would have had less than ten fingers for sure.
Such a sleek design. Really pretty
Beretta Mod.31 and Mod.37 seemed to be far better, they were probably too expensive and that's why they lost the competition to this one.
How did they run? Any word on reliability, accuracy or reception? Otherwise, a great video showcasing a gun you wouldn't normally run across.
@ 06:30, Love that old fashioned scrollwork !
@08:55, That basic adjustable sight looks like the one that may have been put on the rare (now nonexistent) Carcano Model 1940 Rifle; which was adopted but never produced. It was described as an Eccentric Sight.
Very elegant and beautiful piece of kit.
Rip pen.
So that bolt disconnector of the Mondragon was a nice little feature after all. Never heard of a Mondragon thumb.
Hey, Ian. I actually saw the Armaguerra M39 in the Game Enlisted! When i did a mid-magazine reload, the Carcano clip actually ejected out of the ejection port of the weapon.
I doubt that would happen IRL, as it looks very similar to the magazine of the carcano, in which the clip is held up by the bullets and cant fall out the bottom if its a partial load
Good find! A shame for the field strip anyway. Can we hope you'll do it another time?
Thanks for the very interesting history lesson and congrat for the italian pronunciation from an italian follower. Thumbs up!
Sure is elegant looking
A Lombardy rifle...that's interesting. That region is better known for musical instruments than anything else.
When there is already a Garand thumb we have Armagurrea thumb which is 10 times worse
Genova! My city! So proud of this Italian Rifle! :) :) :)
Marco Costa itakiaaaa
9:40 That would be a fun charging handle especially if they made it reciprocate
I love this channel.
It's not usual seeing great designs like this coming out of Italy. As a gun guy I wish more of these where produced, but I'm glad they weren't in the hands of the fascist government.
Daniel Bartleson The Italian arms industry is pretty impressive IMO. Unfortunately, the entry into WW1 caused a tarnished record. That was partly because there was a lack of raw materials and very little public enthusiasm for a new war. Mussolini had even requested Hitler to wait a couple of years for them to stock pile. All this hurt both their military and weapons reputation.
And then Italy had wasted large amounts of resources in Ethiopia and Spain, while Germany, cleverly, rearmed.
@@67claudius hmm they didn't secretly rearm in recent years, they had been rearming since hitler came to power, Germany also participated in spain, the difference between Italy and Germany was Germany's industry was far more developed (both technology and quantity wise), had more raw material, and it's population was hungry for war and revenge ww1.
@@stormerz8605 Both things are true, in Spain Italy wasted many more resources than Germany and while Germany was paid by Spanish nationalists with tons of raw materials, Mussolini didn't ask for anything in return to Franco. Germany had a clearly superior industrial capacity and Italy had to receive the raw materials, oil, iron, from Germany during the Second World War, preventing the industry from increasing its production capacity as it did during the First World War when Italy received raw materials from the British empire.
Garand-thumb is bad enough. Imagine how bad of a choice it would be to give this an automatic bolt release like that.
With the speed of that bolt i can only imagine what kind of spectacular malfunctions you could encounter. Thing probably would crush any bullet that might happen to feed wrong
I like the rear sight adjustment. Are there any other rifles that use that style of rear sight? Is it fairly common on Italian rifles?
The Swedish AG/42 used a similar style of rear sight.
It was not common. Italian rifles of the time tended to reuse the Carcano carbines sights. It's possible that this had been inspired by the big rotating knob sight adjustment of the ZB vz. 26 LMG.
I like the recent uploads keep them up :)
Thanks Ian.
Nice clean gun (not much sticking up or poking out as you've said), sadly you probably can't find clips for it (that's the only negative: Clips instead of regular magazines...then again: Detachable mags weren't this much of a thing yet in WWII and before)...thanks for the great vid, Ian!
It uses regular Carcano clips. They are not that hard to find. ;)
Neutron Alchemist K...I thought they were specially made ;)
Still, I prefer magazines ;) (I'd really like to know why those took so long to catch on, I am the advantages of detachable mags are obvious, even en-bloc-clips aren't as great!)
Today it's easy to say that a detachable magazine would have been better, but, back then, it was a real problem to manufacture a magazine that was, at the same time, so cheap to be discarded on the field and so well and consistently built to not have feeding problems. LMGs like the BAR or the BREN were plagued by feeding problems caused by badly manufactured magazines, and those were valuable pieces of equipment, not relatively cheap infantry rifles. Infact both the SVT 40 and the Gew 43 had detachable magazines, but they were really intended to be loaded with stripper clips. Even the M1A and the M14 had stripper clip guides. At least en-bloc clips were faster than stripper clips.
Did you bid on this Ian? its left hand friendly!
hi I'm a big fan of your content I'm from Slovenia and our country was invaded by Italy in World War II so I love to see what our partisans was fighting against
partigiani falciati dall'Asse
Mario Bravi HAHAHAHA Dai non essere così cattivo
Ian, if u went back in time to WW2 what weapon would u bring and what country would u give it to?
I would give Hitler the entire Cobray product line.
Forgotten Weapons Not the whole product line (after all they could reverse engineer the Mac-10 and streetsweeper into something usable) but I could see giving them the Terminator, they could play with that all they want! 😉
The Mac-10 would be a considerable step down from the MP40 and MP38.
Wow, if ever there was an "art deco" rifle, this is it.
Looks like a handy rifle. With that strong spring I wonder how it spreads the recoil out? Not that 6.5 has much recoil.
So want one of these
LOL Italian automatic finger remover, Ouch thats going to leave a bruise! if u still have anything left on there. eeoww,
The 735 mm round also modified as a spitzer?
How long is that receiver? Looks like to me it would make the rifle longer, for a given barrel length, and way more front heavy than most.
Greetings from Italy. Congratulations on your "Pronunciation", you read Italian very well. Surely you understand that you are US 😁 ... by the way, I didn't know much about the history of the ARMAGUERRA mod.39. Thanks.
Semi auto rifle, also doubles as a bear trap ... 0_0
The factory is still up, was just in front where i went to school
Cool piece of history
Noooooo!!!!!
RIP UNIVERSAL DISASSEMBLY TOOL!!!
Lost but not forgotten(unlike some weapons :D )
This rifle certainly has quite a bit going for it. It's not on the same level as the semi-autos that actually got adopted and manufactured, but it's not a bad gun.
u tried it?
Straight and to the point, i like it! Dry firing the shotgun made me cringe though.
Armaguerra ? that litterally means weaponwar xD
Actually, because Italian has head-initial noun phrases, it means "war weapon."
is this the Italian response to the WAR rifle?
Gabriel Gianni
It was the shortened name of the company.
They knew what they wanted their company to make from the outset :P
Is it an optical illusion, or does that have a wicked short barrel?
It was used by Italian troops in Tunisia.. at least in Enlisted.
Hey Ian, when is the Schmidt-Rubin series coming? You said you'd probably show them to us, like the 1911 (from the early models, all the way to the latest ones)
Anyways, great video! Keep up the awesome work!
boring!! ;)
sorry you could make a photo album of this weapon? I'm helping to make a digital model
As Finn would be cool to see you review Suomi KP/-31 :P
That thing is the Anti Bullpup
pretty sleek design on certain parts of that rifle, the sights for instance, but that charging handle oh god no, tis a shame it didn't get deviled in something better
I meant developed
I'm still trying to decide if that charging handle is very low drag and efficient, or just dumb. I guess a range trip would be required to really tell.
Gun Sense (drmaudio) Don't be an idiot, it would obviously need some weapons grease, Ian said he didn't think it could be taken apart, not being greased in almost 80 years can do a lot to a rifle.
Male Supremacy Haha, not that kind of "low drag." I was speaking about the ergonomics and practicality, not it's condition.
Gun Sense (drmaudio) Oh.
No military rifle would have been approved for use without the possibility to field strip it. You only have to know the passages.
As for the charging handle, the same spring that closes the bolt has to be compressed in opening it. Seeing how powerful it is, the designer probably concluded that some form of lever action was needed to do it.
Is it just me or instead of a swivel/ button deal they could’ve went for a grip/button or just trash it altogether and have pump action.
Armaguerra Thumb [Ouch].
the mag is way forward from the trigger which is strange
sorry if my question is bad, why wasnt/isnt recoil blowback system used for automatic riffles just like SMG's? or is there?
You mean a simple blowback system? Practically every round can be fired using a blowback system, but, in a simple blowback, what prevent the action to open too early (when the pressure in the chamber is too high, so the walls of the case are stuck to those of the chamber, and pulling back the case can cause a case rupture) is simply the weight of the bolt. The more powerful is the cartridge, the more heavy the bolt has to be. A MAB38 (wooden stock 9mm SMG)already weighted around 4 kg. A full power rifle round would require a bolt so heavy to make the rifle unmanageable.
So delayed blowback systems are used instead. Lever delayed like in the Famas, roller delayed like the HK G3... but delayed blowback system are really not more simple to produce than gas actuated ones.
If someone dosent know what its written in the title is semi auto rifle armaguerra
would you call it M-1 thumb on steroids? if you get the chance, i'd love one on the HK32!!
12:56 holy shit is that thing strong!
Edit: listen on .25x speed for a good laugh
Cremona? It could have been a Violin instead.
If they simply just stuck to the standard carcano round then this rifle might not have been put off.
Just like the Japanese bad decisions regarding their guns led them to being outclassed on the frontlines.
Course at least Italy gets the excuse that Germany fucked them over.
they should have put a knob on the bottom
in italian Armaguerra was wargun
So how the devil are you suppose to load it then?!
New Warzone weapon coming with Season 2 lol
fun fact: armaguerra in italian literally means war weapon. I know i know, nobody gives a shit, but i must show my italianness, like every other italian in the world does.
I did the same thing with my hakim and it blew a pen apart also.
Alright is the bloody Garand the only mass produced semi-auto rifle of WW2?
clothar23 g41 ,g43 , and some more that elude me
the svt-40, close to 2 million were produced. and also had a fully automatic version too.
clothar23 svt40 to some extent. By the end of war its amount wasn't substantial but by 1941 there were quite a lot of them
9:27 wasn't there also some 60s era Italian smg that used a similar method?
Carcano Thumb
Bye bye finger nails with this gun :D