One would have to think the SEC and Big 10 would want a foot hold in Virginia and North Carolina. I am sure NC State and UNC would both be ok with 1 in the Big 10 the other in the SEC. I think NC State doesn't won't to get left out of either if UNC goes to either. SEC should take VT and NC State. Big 10 should take the snobs UVA and UNC
This is all getting so complicated now. It seems to me what happens to the Big12 and ACC is actually up to what first happens in the B1G and SEC. The idea is floating around that they may attempt to form 2 super conferences consisting of 24 brands each. At this point nobody knows who will be the new 14 additions to form the eventual 48 total. I would suspect the media companies will have quite a big voice in this! I do like the idea of the B1G and SEC each having 4 geographic divisions of 6 schools each. The two conferences would then hold an NFL style playoff with a national championship game at the end. If this comes to fruition it seems it would be in the interest of all those left in the Big12, ACC, & Pac2 to then join together to form their own nationwide conference of the next 24 most valuable brands (however that may be determined) forming their own 24 team conference. This conference would develop a similar geographic breakdown with playoff holding their own national championship game on the same day as the Power 2 has theirs. That could a fun day of football for everyone. It’s definitely not a perfect solution (it is, after all, an evolution, not a well thought out design) but it is at least workable. It does also bring back and save some old geographic rivalries around the country.
That would be a fun day for some people and a crushingly disappointing day for everyone else interested in college football. A lot of smaller schools have great fanbases that would get completely shafted
@@joeykelly5642 How exactly would these smaller schools with great fan bases be shafted? The great majority don’t compete for national championships now. A Power 2 & Group of 3 could result in less disappointment in knowing there is absolutely no chance. We won’t do it in the USA, but it seems assuming this Group of 3 (best-of-the-rest) comes about, let’s dream further and introduce a true promotion and relegation system so that the best of left-outs in the Group of 3 could work their way up thru playing winning football rather than having to beg or whine!
NC State like any other school needs to do what it thinks is best for itself. If it can join UNC in another conference great, if not then do what it can for survival. The world didn’t end when Texas/A&M stopped playing. It took a while but the Backyard Brawl is happening again. The Border War has some games on the schedule. Nebraska-OU finally got a series together. These schools will all eventually play again. Most of these rivalries are about in state bragging rights and rarely about playing for/preventing the other from competing for a conference or national championship. The ones that are, are already or will be in the B1G/SEC anyway.
I figure the NC government saw some SEC or Big 10 money and saw their opportunity to get a cut for "approval" and maybe a chance to double that cut if they can get two schools in.
@@StudioLB if not ESPN and Fox who is paying those tv deals? People just blame everyone but their own conferences they blame the NCAA for enforcing their rules if they don't want to follow rules what makes people think they'll follow the rules the new entity that replaces the NCAA
You also have to see that both schools were on the same level when it comes to brand and are literally in a desert by themselves… unlike the east coast where there’s either BigTen or SEC schools not too far away…
UNC & NCSU operate very similar to Arizona & ASU. They will be a package deal but either way that’s a good package. NCSU is a top 25 program in one of the fastest growing areas in the country & UNC is a great national brand with great bball history so honestly a very solid duo
Both NC State and UNC are in the same fast growing area. Along with Duke, the 3 schools form the Research Triangle. NC State is also the largest university in North Carolina.
I've never understood why NC State wouldn't be desired. They are continuously good in football, generally good in basketball and baseball. They have good fan support and good facilities. They have excellent academics too, especially in veterinarian studies. I think UNC and NC State should be a package (like the Arizona and Kansas schools). Ok State should have gone with Oklahoma for the same reasons I give for NC State. Personally I'd like to have NC State in our conference (SEC).
"Little" brother is the larger university these days and is arguably more important to the state as it pumps out thousands of engineers annually for the rapidly growing Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill tech economy.
@quentinbell5276 Because NC is the most recognized brand nation wide . When the big ten / sec come calling they won't be looking for nc.state because you are irrelevant and worthless.
I don't think this necessarily ties the two schools together, over so much as ensuring NC State doesn't get totally screwed. A grand bargain where NC State goes to the B12 and UNC goes wherever, certainly would be a reasonable outcome over NC State just being a left behind school.
It is very clear.that the ACC has the desired brands of the BIG and SEC. Unless the SEC wants to lose money a raid of the 12 is not going to happen. Outside of the old PAC schools or maybe Kansas as brand 24, no 12 team will ever get into the BIG. The BIG has women's basketball games that draw better then the 12+4+4. The 12 will live on as a BCS conference
John, there are many moving pieces in NC that people need to watch. For example, there's been talk of ECU moving to another conference which would hurt Charlotte who finally have a "local" rival after years going through the desert with the initial breakup of CUSA separating them from Louisville and Cincinnati. That has been devastating to the Charlotte brand and athletics. The BoG will want to protect the NCSU, Charlotte, ASU, and ECU brands as realignment continues. Sure, they may not be the national brands many think of, but they have pride and value worth protecting. Shoot, NCSU is sitting on many top-25's, top-10s right now in the non-revenue sports. They have a complete athletic program sans MBB right now. Why the hate? Why the general dismissal of this program? They even have hockey and lacrosse waiting in the wings ready to elevate, but follow good financial prudence when budgeting athletics. Regarding UNC-CH, NCSU, and ACC part of this conversation, it is funny that UNC-CH is not liking politics when it's not in their favor. They absolutely decimated NCSU athletics (especially basketball) post-Valvano using the same BoG. One could argue NCSU MBB has yet to recover their luster of the past because of the "special rules" NCSU was required to follow. Additionally, the state just invested in the ACC to keep them in NC, thus there is interest in keeping it solvent. I suspect this is why NCSU changed their vote. It's all politics.
So here's what strikes me about all this realignment talk. No one in a position of authority at either State or Carolina has said anything about leaving---at least for public consumption. It just seems to me that nothing happens until the Florida State situation is resolved. Then we'll see how it goes. But I think they're a package deal, regardless of whether they are in the Big Ten or SEC. I would think that we'll know sooner rather than later. I think both schools want a seat at the big boy table, and if the ACC is watered down---well, then, goodbye!
@@johngarnergarner6724 IMHO both schools wold prefer the ACC to stay relevant. Both schools were the lynchpin of the ACC's existance when formed in 54 from the old Southern Conference. They are tied at the hip thorugh history. Most eveyone is ignorant of this. Your analysis is excellent and spot on.
@@DLTJR1959 what would be the problem with UNC to the BigTen and NCSU to the SEC?.. but hang on to a non-con rivalry game like Clemson and South Carolina currently do?
@@johngarnergarner6724 In my personal opinion, the SEC would take NCSU if it ensured UNC to the SEC. I have no idea about the B1G and their position. I just know going all the way back to 1990 when Roy Kramer was the SEC commissioner, there have been talks with UNC.
Oklahoma left Okie State, while Texas A&M left Texas & Texas Tech when going into the SEC. Texas then left Texas Tech behind when they left the Big XII for the SEC. Funny how the North Carolina schools are tied at the hip.
You do realize NCSU has better academics and does more research than many members of the AAU. In fact, good amount of AAU research couldn’t occur without NCSU Centennial Campus.
@@toast803 no I didn’t. Just curious since every add to the B1G has been AAU(then again Nebraska lost AAU shortly after joining the B1G) maybe that’s a sell to the B1G
@@danielkopcha2011 my understanding is State has applied multiple times and their lack of medical school keeps hurting their chances. This is unlikely to be fixed as there are 2 world class medical schools 15 miles away. Even so, they do quite a bit of medical research and there is speculation they could add the requisite degrees/research offerings to the vet school to compensate. Only time will tell. Politics is a bitch.
NC State like any other school needs to do what it thinks is best for itself. If it can join UNC in another conference great, if not then do what it can for survival.
Good stuff but the math here is tough to bring in NC State. UNC is a good brand but the ratings and popularity is nowhere near a ND or even an FSU. This makes it hard to see how the finances would justify paying 2 payouts when in aggregate their value is not accretive to the payout for existing members. This probably means that if they are together, they are stuck with Wake, BC and the others without a good spot to go.
UNC = SEC and NCSU = XII. UNC is going do what's best for them, and I would advise NCSU to do the same. We're not gonna land in the same conference though.
That makes other schools that aren’t teathered like Miami or Clemson more attractive. Miami and FSU may be teathered from a rivalry point of view, but not legally because Miami is private. However, I feel like the Big 2 might agree to completely remake the conferences and leave the dead weight programs behind. In that scenario, I think at least 7 of the ACC schools would end up in the Big 2 and a few more in the Big 12
Or the Big12 forms their own nationwide conference of leftovers after the B1G and SEC are done picking the best brands off of the ACC and Big12 to form the first national super conferences.
Can’t speak to the B1G but the SEC isn’t dropping any founding member. Their relationships and the by laws will not allow that to happen. The SEC may go to 20 or 24 in the future but the current members will all be together as they do it. The only way a school gets out of the SEC is to voluntarily walk away. Not happening.
While the cash would be irresistible, SEC or B1G status for NC State would be a poisoned chalice of sorts - a ticket to becoming a Purdue or a Mississippi State, with a second-tier in-state football fan base and maybe some occasional brilliance in basketball.
NC State barely has a break even all time record in football and hasn't won the ACC since the 1970's. UNC not much better and hasn't won an ACC title since 1980. Maybe the SEC needs another doormat in football other than Vandy and SC.
@@observer466 We’ll see. The SEC has wanted UNC forever. They would take both to get UNC to the conference, imo. If the SEC is going to 20, who else would be better? FSU and Miami aren’t going to the SEC. Clemson for sure is SEC and the best bet would be UNC and NCSU. The 20th would hard to guess right now. If Virginia and VT could be split, easy peasy but reports say otherwise.
So, since NCST is essentially not wanted and adds nothing, UNC will get stuck too b/c they are going to try to force any conference to take NCST to get UNC.
I am going to laugh so hard at a couple of UNC know it all's that have insisted they knew how everything would go and UNC would be in the SEC or B10 for at least a year now. I still expect that to happen but if it doesn't then it'll teach some to hold thier tongues. None of us know how this will eventually play out with all the moving pieces.
Only way NC State ends up in the Big 10 or SEC is if North Carolina is forced to bring NC State. Wash, Oregon and UCLA were not forced to bring Wazzu, Oregon State or Cal to the Big 10. They would not harm North Carolina to benefit NC State. It’s all talk by the NC board. They wouldn’t hurt both schools to benefit NC State. The Big 10 /SEC don’t want, and won’t take, NC State.
@@tarheel7406 lol no,they dont. They bring absolutely nothing to the table,this is all about football bro,and Virginia and unc both suck ass lol. Nobody in the acc can hang with sec or BIG,especially those teams. Hell unc cant even beat nc state…🤣🤣
@@Todayjunior44. Honestly, this story is now ~3.5 years old.... Example articles: "College football realignment: SEC, Big Ten have 2 schools on radar, per report" (Jun 2023) by James Parks (SI associate) "Paul Finebaum on SEC realignment: FSU is ‘third’ of 3, behind North Carolina" (Sep 2023) by NY Times "College football realignment: SEC, Big Ten could target 1 ACC school" (Mar 2024) by James Parks (SI associate) "Report: UNC Viewed as SEC, Big Ten's Most Attractive Expansion Target from ACC" (Mar 2024) by Timothy Rapp (Bleacher Report) "Sources: Big Ten, SEC Unlikely To Add Florida State if ACC Survives" (Jul 2024) by Brett McMurphy (Action Network) Example Vids: "What we know about UNC potentially LEAVING the ACC | College Football Enquirer | Yahoo Sports" "Dan Wetzel: If FSU Can Get Out of the Grant of Rights It Will Be the End of the ACC | Realignment" (~5-minute mark) "Bob Thompson: The ACC Being the Next Conference to Break Up Is Not Good For ESPN | Realignment" (~10-minute mark) "North Carolina wanting OUT of the ACC? | How Things Stand in Chapel Hill with Bubba Cunningham, UNC" "Matt Fortuna: North Carolina Is the Most Desired Brand Among All of the ACC Schools | CFB" (~7-minute mark) "ESPN’s Pete Thamel on the Possibility of More Big Ten & SEC Expansion | The Rich Eisen Show" (~4-minute mark) "Will Florida State LAWSUIT Against ACC FORCE More CFB Realignment? | Tommy Bowden | OutKick Hot Mic" (~3-minute mark) "Brett McMurphy: 100% of Everyone I Talked to Doesn’t Want FSU & Clemson | Conference Realignment" (~12-minute mark)
NCSU is better than UNC at football right now. They probably wouldn't win the SEC any time soon, but they could consistently make bowl good bowl games.
Last August in an interview, Sankey said in an interview that any future candidate for expansion would need to have two prerequisites for the SEC. First, they would have to be in the geographical footprint of the SEC and second, they would have to give their full commitment to their college athletic programs. Know anyone that may fit those prerequisites?
@@jansonroberts2616 NC State and UNC are in the geographic footprint. Both schools are fully commited to all sports. NC State has been more successful in football recently. Both schools could be added to the SEC. NC State does not have AAU status but is academically ranked higher than some AAU members if the BIG comes calling. UNC has a medical school. NC State will never have a med school but lots of research is done there. NC State has exellent academics.
@@DLTJR1959 North Carolina might be fast growing but it's not a football state. North Carolina and N.C. St. are not football brands. That's why the ACC has a bad TV deal.......it's because of schools like N.C. St. The SEC isn't touching them.
The thing that most talking heads leave out is that I doubt it's a matter of NC State and UNC being in the same conference. It's likely more of a way to make sure one isn't left behind in a dying ACC. North Carolina is the 10th largest state, with a population that is very college sports focused. The state and its eyeballs are valued by both the SEC and B1G. I could see a situation where if UNC were to be invited to one, NC State could be positioned to be invited to the other. Again, not tied together in the same league, but one (NC State) not being left behind. Worst case scenario is that NC State goes to the Big 12. IMO, with hindsight being what it is, once everyone saw that the SEC and B1G were getting Texas/OU and USC/UCLA. The FB serious schools, along with the large brand CBB schools from the ACC and Big 12 (Kansas/Duke), should've left their respective conferences and formed a new league. It probably would've still been in 3rd place in media revenue, but not in the watered down positions they're currently in. Especially with the Pac 12 dissolving. 1. Miami 2. FSU 3. GT (mainly for the GA carriage fees) 4. Clemson 5. UNC 6. NC State 7. Duke 8. VT 9. UVA 10. Kansas 11. K State 12. OK State 13-18 or 20 Pick from WVU, Pitt, Iowa St, Colorado, Utah, BYU, Louisville, Arizona, ASU, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU. That's still a strong league that would have a voice. From a FB competitive standpoint, probably stronger than the B1G (who is only in their position because of Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn St, plus generations of loyal midwest fans). That league would definitely be the best in basketball.
Soon after the TX/OK news and at least once again later on, the ACC internally considered all new BIG12 schools and passed as not working financially. Not sure how your proposal would be materially different.
@@tarheel7406 because I'm talking about creating a new league. Inviting a couple of Big 12 schools doesn't change much because the dead weight is still there.
I do not see anyway NC State gets into the Big Ten. Tying UNC and NC State together may work for the SEC. That will not work for the Big Ten. I know former Big Ten Commissioner Delany would love his alma mater UNC to join the Big Ten. And maybe that is where the belong. However, NC State aint happening. There are far too few seats and little money left to burn on NC State.
The SEC wants tobacco road added to their conference. Duke, UNC, and NC state will be in the SEC along with UVA. Clemson, GT, Miami, and VT will complete the SEC super league.
@@chuckwest7045 If the SEC wants to secure being the best athletic conference over the coming generations, they should secure the best +8 schools that remain in the greater Southeast.
@@tarheel7406 Most of the ACC schools won't help increase the SEC's TV payout in any world. If they did then Florida St. and Clemson wouldn't want to leave. Why would the SEC take a bunch of schools that Florida St. is trying to break away from?
Actually the first issue is whether the SEC or B1G will tolerate the need to be so public. I do think that there is a viable plan. UNC goes to the SEC (or B1G) and I believe that the Big 12 will take NCState. Then UNC pays a UCLA tax to NCState, say ten million per year. That makes NCState the highest paid school not in either the SEC or B1G. Actually if the two are forced to stay in the ACC, that league will survive. I would expect the powers in VA to do the same thing to UVa and VaTech. So the six VA and NC schools stay in the ACC. There will be lots more teams staying in the ACC, then they can backfill with WaState and ORState, and maybe a couple of G5 teams, if needed.
I agree, it could easily go that route. The issue is the growing gap disparity between the B1G/ SEC with the rest of D1 schools in their media deals. Throw in the soon to be player revenue sharing model and the gap becomes a gorge for those outside trying to keep up.
I dont understand the hate toward NC State. They have the better Football program, same with womens bball, swimming (both), cross country (both), wrestling, etc. UNC has Mens BBall (which isnt driving this) and Soccer (both). Baseball and Tennis (both) are toss ups. The brands arent even, I get that (mostly due to Jordan and BBall), but to think the total athletics departments arent on par or leaning toward NC State is just dumb. Also, them being tied together is to protect the remainder of the UNC System (from a funding perspective), not just saving NC State.
That’s not true NC State will not be a part of the Big Ten or the SEC. They just won’t regardless it’ll be similar to like a UCLA and Cal situation. No one’s gonna be adding NC State the big 12 would barely add NC State.
What are you talking about lmao. They are a pretty consistent top 25 program and the best football program in North Carolina. They would likely end uo in the SEC or Big10 and the Big 12 would love to have them not "barely" add them
@@jonathonjustice7574 No reason to so limit since both would have been under the same handicap. I believe that UNC has a winning record vs. NCSTATE in men's hoops on the road (at NCSTATE). I do stand corrected, NCSTATE leads the series in women's basketball and wrestling (NC State: 52; UNC: 51; Ties: 2). Some elsewhere Baseball: UNC 168; NC State: 135; Ties: 1 Men's Soccer: UNC 52; NC State: 22; Ties: 13 As a legit summary, in the D-Cup (started long after deseg), UNC has finished Top 10 25x. NCSTATE never.
@@haroldflashman4687 well be that as It may, that is where you would be wrong. And for starters its about markets where NC St controls the Raleigh Market so yes they bring a lot of value and brings more eyeballs
The ACCs future all depends on what the B1G and SEC do first. I agree the eventual addition of Duke would be great for the Big12 and it is possible too because Duke is probably not on the immediate radar of the B1G and SEC.
Can’t see a doomed ACC but I could see both UNC and NCSU joining the SEC. If both stay in the ACC, Duke stays as well as pretty much everyone except FSU, Miami and Clemson. The remainders back fill with USF, Tulane , Army and Navy. Keep on keeping on.
@@jansonroberts2616that is what I think will happen as well; plus the addition of Air Force, WazzU, OzzU, Colorado State, Memphis, UConn, and all schools added will be all in, including the three military service schools. It would be 10 additional schools added to get to 25 total and 24 football teams. If any further schools left ACC, San Diego State, Villanova, CCU, JMU, Buffalo, Rice, Nevada, Utah State, App State, and Tulsa would be the next schools to consider adding but not all.
One would have to think the SEC and Big 10 would want a foot hold in Virginia and North Carolina. I am sure NC State and UNC would both be ok with 1 in the Big 10 the other in the SEC. I think NC State doesn't won't to get left out of either if UNC goes to either. SEC should take VT and NC State. Big 10 should take the snobs UVA and UNC
This makes the most sense.
Except that UNC is now ~100% to the SEC when/if.
This is all getting so complicated now. It seems to me what happens to the Big12 and ACC is actually up to what first happens in the B1G and SEC.
The idea is floating around that they may attempt to form 2 super conferences consisting of 24 brands each. At this point nobody knows who will be the new 14 additions to form the eventual 48 total. I would suspect the media companies will have quite a big voice in this! I do like the idea of the B1G and SEC each having 4 geographic divisions of 6 schools each. The two conferences would then hold an NFL style playoff with a national championship game at the end.
If this comes to fruition it seems it would be in the interest of all those left in the Big12, ACC, & Pac2 to then join together to form their own nationwide conference of the next 24 most valuable brands (however that may be determined) forming their own 24 team conference. This conference would develop a similar geographic breakdown with playoff holding their own national championship game on the same day as the Power 2 has theirs.
That could a fun day of football for everyone. It’s definitely not a perfect solution (it is, after all, an evolution, not a well thought out design) but it is at least workable. It does also bring back and save some old geographic rivalries around the country.
That would be a fun day for some people and a crushingly disappointing day for everyone else interested in college football. A lot of smaller schools have great fanbases that would get completely shafted
@@joeykelly5642 How exactly would these smaller schools with great fan bases be shafted? The great majority don’t compete for national championships now. A Power 2 & Group of 3 could result in less disappointment in knowing there is absolutely no chance.
We won’t do it in the USA, but it seems assuming this Group of 3 (best-of-the-rest) comes about, let’s dream further and introduce a true promotion and relegation system so that the best of left-outs in the Group of 3 could work their way up thru playing winning football rather than having to beg or whine!
NC State like any other school needs to do what it thinks is best for itself. If it can join UNC in another conference great, if not then do what it can for survival. The world didn’t end when Texas/A&M stopped playing. It took a while but the Backyard Brawl is happening again. The Border War has some games on the schedule. Nebraska-OU finally got a series together. These schools will all eventually play again. Most of these rivalries are about in state bragging rights and rarely about playing for/preventing the other from competing for a conference or national championship. The ones that are, are already or will be in the B1G/SEC anyway.
What happens with the Duke-UNC rivalry?
Basketball? They can play a home and home every year without blinking an eye .
I figure the NC government saw some SEC or Big 10 money and saw their opportunity to get a cut for "approval" and maybe a chance to double that cut if they can get two schools in.
I think the state would approve splitting UNC and NCState of one went to the BigTen and the other went to the SEC but kept a non-con rivalry game…
@@dacokcpossibly but I think it’s rather the point of them going together to have a voting block in all their athletic endeavors.
I enjoyed it John! Thanks!
Hooray to the Houston Cougars winning the Big Xll title in the first year in the conference, this got a lot of people feeling salty. Go Coogs
It appears that UNC is a more palatable option than FSU... overstating the obvious.
ESPN (BSPN) ruined college football
Na they made it better
@@noelramirez1551 I agree. Better for their bank accounts
@@StudioLB if not ESPN and Fox who is paying those tv deals? People just blame everyone but their own conferences they blame the NCAA for enforcing their rules if they don't want to follow rules what makes people think they'll follow the rules the new entity that replaces the NCAA
Just wait until the 2 future God conferences goes to 32 schools. It'll make it fun, if you're a fan of any of those 64 schools.
But schools accepted the money
A similar thing happened in Virginia when its state government pressured VT into the ACC with UVA.
ASU and Arizona are tied by the board of regents as well I am convinced that ASU was forced to go the big 12 with Arizona.
You also have to see that both schools were on the same level when it comes to brand and are literally in a desert by themselves… unlike the east coast where there’s either BigTen or SEC schools not too far away…
UNC & NCSU operate very similar to Arizona & ASU. They will be a package deal but either way that’s a good package. NCSU is a top 25 program in one of the fastest growing areas in the country & UNC is a great national brand with great bball history so honestly a very solid duo
Both NC State and UNC are in the same fast growing area. Along with Duke, the 3 schools form the Research Triangle. NC State is also the largest university in North Carolina.
I've never understood why NC State wouldn't be desired. They are continuously good in football, generally good in basketball and baseball. They have good fan support and good facilities. They have excellent academics too, especially in veterinarian studies. I think UNC and NC State should be a package (like the Arizona and Kansas schools). Ok State should have gone with Oklahoma for the same reasons I give for NC State. Personally I'd like to have NC State in our conference (SEC).
Interesting video.
Currently, ACC tournaments and games are a great economic generator for local communities.
No one gave a damn about the OSU and Wazzu communities when they got left behind. Doubtful they care about any communities
Nothing screams, little brother like holding on to Big brothers leg, kicking and screaming until he finally agrees to take you with him.
“Little brother” has owned unccheat over the last few years. unccheat’s FB program is a joke
"Little" brother is the larger university these days and is arguably more important to the state as it pumps out thousands of engineers annually for the rapidly growing Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill tech economy.
How is NC State the little brother when they have won 13 of the last 18 times in Football
@quentinbell5276 Because NC is the most recognized brand nation wide . When the big ten / sec come calling they won't be looking for nc.state because you are irrelevant and worthless.
John Kurtz!
I don't think this necessarily ties the two schools together, over so much as ensuring NC State doesn't get totally screwed. A grand bargain where NC State goes to the B12 and UNC goes wherever, certainly would be a reasonable outcome over NC State just being a left behind school.
In context, the BIG12 is already in left behind status.
It is very clear.that the ACC has the desired brands of the BIG and SEC. Unless the SEC wants to lose money a raid of the 12 is not going to happen. Outside of the old PAC schools or maybe Kansas as brand 24, no 12 team will ever get into the BIG. The BIG has women's basketball games that draw better then the 12+4+4. The 12 will live on as a BCS conference
John, there are many moving pieces in NC that people need to watch. For example, there's been talk of ECU moving to another conference which would hurt Charlotte who finally have a "local" rival after years going through the desert with the initial breakup of CUSA separating them from Louisville and Cincinnati. That has been devastating to the Charlotte brand and athletics. The BoG will want to protect the NCSU, Charlotte, ASU, and ECU brands as realignment continues. Sure, they may not be the national brands many think of, but they have pride and value worth protecting.
Shoot, NCSU is sitting on many top-25's, top-10s right now in the non-revenue sports. They have a complete athletic program sans MBB right now. Why the hate? Why the general dismissal of this program? They even have hockey and lacrosse waiting in the wings ready to elevate, but follow good financial prudence when budgeting athletics.
Regarding UNC-CH, NCSU, and ACC part of this conversation, it is funny that UNC-CH is not liking politics when it's not in their favor. They absolutely decimated NCSU athletics (especially basketball) post-Valvano using the same BoG. One could argue NCSU MBB has yet to recover their luster of the past because of the "special rules" NCSU was required to follow. Additionally, the state just invested in the ACC to keep them in NC, thus there is interest in keeping it solvent. I suspect this is why NCSU changed their vote. It's all politics.
Thank you. As a native North Carolinian and NC State grad your analyssis is spot on.
So here's what strikes me about all this realignment talk. No one in a position of authority at either State or Carolina has said anything about leaving---at least for public consumption. It just seems to me that nothing happens until the Florida State situation is resolved. Then we'll see how it goes. But I think they're a package deal, regardless of whether they are in the Big Ten or SEC. I would think that we'll know sooner rather than later. I think both schools want a seat at the big boy table, and if the ACC is watered down---well, then, goodbye!
@@johngarnergarner6724 IMHO both schools wold prefer the ACC to stay relevant. Both schools were the lynchpin of the ACC's existance when formed in 54 from the old Southern Conference. They are tied at the hip thorugh history. Most eveyone is ignorant of this. Your analysis is excellent and spot on.
@@DLTJR1959 what would be the problem with UNC to the BigTen and NCSU to the SEC?.. but hang on to a non-con rivalry game like Clemson and South Carolina currently do?
@@johngarnergarner6724 In my personal opinion, the SEC would take NCSU if it ensured UNC to the SEC. I have no idea about the B1G and their position. I just know going all the way back to 1990 when Roy Kramer was the SEC commissioner, there have been talks with UNC.
Oklahoma left Okie State, while Texas A&M left Texas & Texas Tech when going into the SEC. Texas then left Texas Tech behind when they left the Big XII for the SEC. Funny how the North Carolina schools are tied at the hip.
Raleigh News & Observer!!!
Would the B1G really take a non-AAU school in their ranks(NCSU)? The exception always seemed to be ND but they became AAU?
You do realize NCSU has better academics and does more research than many members of the AAU. In fact, good amount of AAU research couldn’t occur without NCSU Centennial Campus.
@@toast803 no I didn’t. Just curious since every add to the B1G has been AAU(then again Nebraska lost AAU shortly after joining the B1G) maybe that’s a sell to the B1G
Michigan state was not AAU when they joined the BIG, they got that status after. Same will happen for FSU
@@danielkopcha2011 my understanding is State has applied multiple times and their lack of medical school keeps hurting their chances. This is unlikely to be fixed as there are 2 world class medical schools 15 miles away. Even so, they do quite a bit of medical research and there is speculation they could add the requisite degrees/research offerings to the vet school to compensate. Only time will tell. Politics is a bitch.
@@tonywlaschin7842 1955 rewrite.
NC State like any other school needs to do what it thinks is best for itself. If it can join UNC in another conference great, if not then do what it can for survival.
Whats an NC State?
ACC will survive as well as the Big 12 does. but won't be close to the P2
Pick up former big east member USF, grab San Diego State they’re on the west coast already and see if u can get WV and Cincinnati to join
Good stuff but the math here is tough to bring in NC State. UNC is a good brand but the ratings and popularity is nowhere near a ND or even an FSU. This makes it hard to see how the finances would justify paying 2 payouts when in aggregate their value is not accretive to the payout for existing members.
This probably means that if they are together, they are stuck with Wake, BC and the others without a good spot to go.
FSU isn't wanted enough to have a +1 coattail. UNC likely is so wanted.
"Velcor yourself". What a concept.
UNC = SEC and NCSU = XII. UNC is going do what's best for them, and I would advise NCSU to do the same. We're not gonna land in the same conference though.
BigTen isn’t staying at 18..
Why would NCSTATE go to the already Tier 2 BIG12?
Anything can happen. This is old news.
SEC may want NCSt more than UNC, or want them both.
SEC should add FSU+Clemson, plus, possibly, NCSt+UNC.
Go Pack 🐺
That makes other schools that aren’t teathered like Miami or Clemson more attractive. Miami and FSU may be teathered from a rivalry point of view, but not legally because Miami is private. However, I feel like the Big 2 might agree to completely remake the conferences and leave the dead weight programs behind. In that scenario, I think at least 7 of the ACC schools would end up in the Big 2 and a few more in the Big 12
Or the Big12 forms their own nationwide conference of leftovers after the B1G and SEC are done picking the best brands off of the ACC and Big12 to form the first national super conferences.
Can’t speak to the B1G but the SEC isn’t dropping any founding member. Their relationships and the by laws will not allow that to happen. The SEC may go to 20 or 24 in the future but the current members will all be together as they do it. The only way a school gets out of the SEC is to voluntarily walk away. Not happening.
The SEC won't take tag a longs.
That Wolfpack Backpack
Two more independents or sun belt.
While the cash would be irresistible, SEC or B1G status for NC State would be a poisoned chalice of sorts - a ticket to becoming a Purdue or a Mississippi State, with a second-tier in-state football fan base and maybe some occasional brilliance in basketball.
So about what they’ve been historically anyway. Just with a large amount of money.
Not to worry. Neither league will take two NC teams. Not nearly enough money generated.
NC State barely has a break even all time record in football and hasn't won the ACC since the 1970's. UNC not much better and hasn't won an ACC title since 1980. Maybe the SEC needs another doormat in football other than Vandy and SC.
@@eujr4SCthank you.
@@observer466 We’ll see. The SEC has wanted UNC forever. They would take both to get UNC to the conference, imo. If the SEC is going to 20, who else would be better? FSU and Miami aren’t going to the SEC. Clemson for sure is SEC and the best bet would be UNC and NCSU. The 20th would hard to guess right now. If Virginia and VT could be split, easy peasy but reports say otherwise.
So, since NCST is essentially not wanted and adds nothing, UNC will get stuck too b/c they are going to try to force any conference to take NCST to get UNC.
This is supposed to be about football and unccheat FB is a joke
NCST adds the state of NC to either the SEC or BIG if one of those takes UNC.
I am going to laugh so hard at a couple of UNC know it all's that have insisted they knew how everything would go and UNC would be in the SEC or B10 for at least a year now. I still expect that to happen but if it doesn't then it'll teach some to hold thier tongues. None of us know how this will eventually play out with all the moving pieces.
@@DLTJR1959 NCST adds nothing and is not wanted that's why the Board of Regents, NCST alum made up this scheme
@@secretagent73 UNC is in the running, NCST is not, that's why their alum board of Regents guy concocted this scheme
Big Ten can have this one
Go on, take money and run!
Only way NC State ends up in the Big 10 or SEC is if North Carolina is forced to bring NC State. Wash, Oregon and UCLA were not forced to bring Wazzu, Oregon State or Cal to the Big 10. They would not harm North Carolina to benefit NC State. It’s all talk by the NC board. They wouldn’t hurt both schools to benefit NC State. The Big 10 /SEC don’t want, and won’t take, NC State.
BIG or SEC dont WANT anybody lol,and dont need anybody.
@@Todayjunior44. The B1G want ND, UVA & UNC. The SEC wants UVA and UNC.
@@tarheel7406 lol no,they dont. They bring absolutely nothing to the table,this is all about football bro,and Virginia and unc both suck ass lol. Nobody in the acc can hang with sec or BIG,especially those teams. Hell unc cant even beat nc state…🤣🤣
@@Todayjunior44. Honestly, this story is now ~3.5 years old....
Example articles:
"College football realignment: SEC, Big Ten have 2 schools on radar, per report" (Jun 2023) by James Parks (SI associate)
"Paul Finebaum on SEC realignment: FSU is ‘third’ of 3, behind North Carolina" (Sep 2023) by NY Times
"College football realignment: SEC, Big Ten could target 1 ACC school" (Mar 2024) by James Parks (SI associate)
"Report: UNC Viewed as SEC, Big Ten's Most Attractive Expansion Target from ACC" (Mar 2024) by Timothy Rapp (Bleacher Report)
"Sources: Big Ten, SEC Unlikely To Add Florida State if ACC Survives" (Jul 2024) by Brett McMurphy (Action Network)
Example Vids:
"What we know about UNC potentially LEAVING the ACC | College Football Enquirer | Yahoo Sports"
"Dan Wetzel: If FSU Can Get Out of the Grant of Rights It Will Be the End of the ACC | Realignment" (~5-minute mark)
"Bob Thompson: The ACC Being the Next Conference to Break Up Is Not Good For ESPN | Realignment" (~10-minute mark)
"North Carolina wanting OUT of the ACC? | How Things Stand in Chapel Hill with Bubba Cunningham, UNC"
"Matt Fortuna: North Carolina Is the Most Desired Brand Among All of the ACC Schools | CFB" (~7-minute mark)
"ESPN’s Pete Thamel on the Possibility of More Big Ten & SEC Expansion | The Rich Eisen Show" (~4-minute mark)
"Will Florida State LAWSUIT Against ACC FORCE More CFB Realignment? | Tommy Bowden | OutKick Hot Mic" (~3-minute mark)
"Brett McMurphy: 100% of Everyone I Talked to Doesn’t Want FSU & Clemson | Conference Realignment" (~12-minute mark)
NCSU is better than UNC at football right now. They probably wouldn't win the SEC any time soon, but they could consistently make bowl good bowl games.
Last August in an interview, Sankey said in an interview that any future candidate for expansion would need to have two prerequisites for the SEC. First, they would have to be in the geographical footprint of the SEC and second, they would have to give their full commitment to their college athletic programs. Know anyone that may fit those prerequisites?
@@jansonroberts2616 NC State and UNC are in the geographic footprint. Both schools are fully commited to all sports. NC State has been more successful in football recently. Both schools could be added to the SEC. NC State does not have AAU status but is academically ranked higher than some AAU members if the BIG comes calling. UNC has a medical school. NC State will never have a med school but lots of research is done there. NC State has exellent academics.
@@DLTJR1959 The SEC will never invite N.C. St.
@@chuckwest7045 They will eventually. If UNC goes BIG ESPN doesn't want to give up the 9th most populus state and faster growing states in the US.
@@DLTJR1959 North Carolina might be fast growing but it's not a football state. North Carolina and N.C. St. are not football brands. That's why the ACC has a bad TV deal.......it's because of schools like N.C. St. The SEC isn't touching them.
What is this “NC State” entity he’s talking about?
I’ve heard it’s a team that might be able to beat KU this year..
a team that's pretty consistently in the top 25 and beat their rival UNC 13 of the last 18 times
@@quentinbell5276 and a team that likes to spoil FSU’s and Clemson’s seasons..
The thing that most talking heads leave out is that I doubt it's a matter of NC State and UNC being in the same conference. It's likely more of a way to make sure one isn't left behind in a dying ACC. North Carolina is the 10th largest state, with a population that is very college sports focused. The state and its eyeballs are valued by both the SEC and B1G. I could see a situation where if UNC were to be invited to one, NC State could be positioned to be invited to the other. Again, not tied together in the same league, but one (NC State) not being left behind. Worst case scenario is that NC State goes to the Big 12.
IMO, with hindsight being what it is, once everyone saw that the SEC and B1G were getting Texas/OU and USC/UCLA. The FB serious schools, along with the large brand CBB schools from the ACC and Big 12 (Kansas/Duke), should've left their respective conferences and formed a new league. It probably would've still been in 3rd place in media revenue, but not in the watered down positions they're currently in. Especially with the Pac 12 dissolving.
1. Miami
2. FSU
3. GT (mainly for the GA carriage fees)
4. Clemson
5. UNC
6. NC State
7. Duke
8. VT
9. UVA
10. Kansas
11. K State
12. OK State
13-18 or 20
Pick from WVU, Pitt, Iowa St, Colorado, Utah, BYU, Louisville, Arizona, ASU, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU.
That's still a strong league that would have a voice. From a FB competitive standpoint, probably stronger than the B1G (who is only in their position because of Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn St, plus generations of loyal midwest fans). That league would definitely be the best in basketball.
Soon after the TX/OK news and at least once again later on, the ACC internally considered all new BIG12 schools and passed as not working financially. Not sure how your proposal would be materially different.
@@tarheel7406 because I'm talking about creating a new league. Inviting a couple of Big 12 schools doesn't change much because the dead weight is still there.
@@jebrown1980 Wouldn't matter. Synergies do matter. The BIG12 has already lost its top 6 (net). There's really no changing that.
Both UNC and NC State would be a better fit for the B1G
LOL
I do not see anyway NC State gets into the Big Ten. Tying UNC and NC State together may work for the SEC. That will not work for the Big Ten.
I know former Big Ten Commissioner Delany would love his alma mater UNC to join the Big Ten. And maybe that is where the belong. However, NC State aint happening. There are far too few seats and little money left to burn on NC State.
The SEC wants tobacco road added to their conference. Duke, UNC, and NC state will be in the SEC along with UVA. Clemson, GT, Miami, and VT will complete the SEC super league.
No way will that scenario happen.
@@chuckwest7045 If the SEC wants to secure being the best athletic conference over the coming generations, they should secure the best +8 schools that remain in the greater Southeast.
@@tarheel7406 Nearly all of this realignment is football oriented. Most of those schools won't help to increase the TV buyout.
@@chuckwest7045 You are thinking within a P5 rather than P2 world.
@@tarheel7406 Most of the ACC schools won't help increase the SEC's TV payout in any world. If they did then Florida St. and Clemson wouldn't want to leave. Why would the SEC take a bunch of schools that Florida St. is trying to break away from?
Carolina-mony
Actually the first issue is whether the SEC or B1G will tolerate the need to be so public.
I do think that there is a viable plan. UNC goes to the SEC (or B1G) and I believe that the Big 12 will take NCState. Then UNC pays a UCLA tax to NCState, say ten million per year. That makes NCState the highest paid school not in either the SEC or B1G.
Actually if the two are forced to stay in the ACC, that league will survive. I would expect the powers in VA to do the same thing to UVa and VaTech. So the six VA and NC schools stay in the ACC. There will be lots more teams staying in the ACC, then they can backfill with WaState and ORState, and maybe a couple of G5 teams, if needed.
I agree, it could easily go that route. The issue is the growing gap disparity between the B1G/ SEC with the rest of D1 schools in their media deals. Throw in the soon to be player revenue sharing model and the gap becomes a gorge for those outside trying to keep up.
NcSt won't receive any invite from b1g, but may demand calimomy from UNC
They are a much much better Program than UNC and will likely get an invite from the SEC and Big10
Why is unccheat coveted? Their football sucks and “little brother” has owned them over the last few years
You really don't know? This story is now over 2.5 years old.
I dont understand the hate toward NC State. They have the better Football program, same with womens bball, swimming (both), cross country (both), wrestling, etc. UNC has Mens BBall (which isnt driving this) and Soccer (both). Baseball and Tennis (both) are toss ups.
The brands arent even, I get that (mostly due to Jordan and BBall), but to think the total athletics departments arent on par or leaning toward NC State is just dumb.
Also, them being tied together is to protect the remainder of the UNC System (from a funding perspective), not just saving NC State.
UNC has finished Top 10 in the D-Cup 24x. As best I can tell, NCSTATE 0x. The athletic departments are not on par, much less lean NCSTATE.
Hear me out: what if NC State goes to the Big 12? their brand of football would be perfect for this conference.
It could happen but it would have to take a lot of other factors to happen before it would happen.
Can't see NC State going to either of the P2.
That’s not true NC State will not be a part of the Big Ten or the SEC. They just won’t regardless it’ll be similar to like a UCLA and Cal situation. No one’s gonna be adding NC State the big 12 would barely add NC State.
What are you talking about lmao. They are a pretty consistent top 25 program and the best football program in North Carolina. They would likely end uo in the SEC or Big10 and the Big 12 would love to have them not "barely" add them
NC state to the BIG 😂
Nc State -> SEC
UNC & Duke -> BIG 10
Nope.... UNC and UVa --> B1G
NCSU and VT --> SEC
@@VincentPaterno-i3x 👍
The SEC doesn't want or need NC State. Sorry.
NC State is a pretty consistent top 25 program and the best football program in North Carolina. They have some real value
lol ok. So much for the market argument then.
Markets are nice but branding also has value. FSU has both in spades.
NC State whoops them in every sport except basketball and women’s field hockey
Delusional....
@ gay
@@jonathonjustice7574 You will have to do better. When I looked, UNC had a winning record vs. NCSTATE in every sport I saw.
@ I only count the records since both school were desegregated.
@@jonathonjustice7574 No reason to so limit since both would have been under the same handicap. I believe that UNC has a winning record vs. NCSTATE in men's hoops on the road (at NCSTATE). I do stand corrected, NCSTATE leads the series in women's basketball and wrestling (NC State: 52; UNC: 51; Ties: 2). Some elsewhere
Baseball: UNC 168; NC State: 135; Ties: 1
Men's Soccer: UNC 52; NC State: 22; Ties: 13
As a legit summary, in the D-Cup (started long after deseg), UNC has finished Top 10 25x. NCSTATE never.
Doubt either conference takes NC State. Both might want UNC, but not enough to take NC State.
I think you’re wrong but you could right. I think the SEC wouldn’t blink twice to add NCSU if it meant UNC joining the SEC.
@@jansonroberts2616 not if it NC State doesn’t bring in enough money from the networks.
Nc State is a pretty consistent top 25 program and the best football program in North Carolina. They have some real value
@@quentinbell5276 be that as it may, I doubt NC State brings in even pro rata, let alone added incremental value to either B1G or SEC.
@@haroldflashman4687 well be that as It may, that is where you would be wrong. And for starters its about markets where NC St controls the Raleigh Market so yes they bring a lot of value and brings more eyeballs
n & o sports is terrible, all UNC😅
ACC is doomed.
Definately gives Big 12 a shot at the 2 of them. Add in Duke & that's fantastic for our Basketball league!
The ACCs future all depends on what the B1G and SEC do first. I agree the eventual addition of Duke would be great for the Big12 and it is possible too because Duke is probably not on the immediate radar of the B1G and SEC.
Can’t see a doomed ACC but I could see both UNC and NCSU joining the SEC. If both stay in the ACC, Duke stays as well as pretty much everyone except FSU, Miami and Clemson. The remainders back fill with USF, Tulane , Army and Navy. Keep on keeping on.
@@jansonroberts2616that is what I think will happen as well; plus the addition of Air Force, WazzU, OzzU, Colorado State, Memphis, UConn, and all schools added will be all in, including the three military service schools. It would be 10 additional schools added to get to 25 total and 24 football teams. If any further schools left ACC, San Diego State, Villanova, CCU, JMU, Buffalo, Rice, Nevada, Utah State, App State, and Tulsa would be the next schools to consider adding but not all.
In context, the BIG12 is already dead.