Armored Core 6 Made Me Question Humanity
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- Опубліковано 15 лис 2023
- After working on a malfunctioning laptop that is clearly not powerfully of handling any level of editing, 2 weeks delay and repairs, here is my video about beeg machines go brrr
Armored Core 6 should have been nominated for more categorizes in the GOTY Awards - Ігри
So i fked up in making this video. I will try to be better in future. Whatever I have said in this video definitely will have flaws when I am arguing based on my opinions. Feel free to argue and I will learn from it. Still learning how to make better videos. My goal is to NOT make this a video essay channel but just make videos for whatever I like and the opinions I have about that show.
Edit: I got busy working for a new video, and opened this to notice so many insightful comments. Thank you all 🙏
It's alright.
I appreciate that this game had such a profound effect on you.
Thinking about these things is what I appreciate about video games and stories even after I put down the controller or the boom. 📖 ✨️ 🎮
@@theodorebear6714 thanks 🙏
Humans all run on the same operating system. We only customize our desktop and apps. And line 1 of that OS is "get as much of everything as possible for the least amount of effort." In that one universal truth lies all of humanity, both good and bad. Farming, the wheel, language, teamwork. Theft, murder, slavery.
We like to think we're different and unique, but put 100 people in the same scenario, and 90% will do the exact same thing. You'll get 100 different stories and reasons for *why* they did the thing, but when you ignore the words, and look only at the action, humans are just as easy to predict as any other animal. If you leave fish unattended, and 3 cats show up, all 3 will take the fish. One will hiss, one meows, and one begs you for more. But you wouldn't pay attention to them. The only thing you learned from that is cats will always steal your fish.
The jerk hissed at you.
The lazy one meowed so you wouldn't get mad, because he didn't want to run.
The mama cat begged for more fish and tells you she has babies.
But all 3 took the fish.
Humans are the exact same.
No matter if its a preacher or a murderer, they'll react the same, in the same situations.
But they'll have wildly different reasoning and justification for why they did it.
Its why history repeats. Because we follow our programming. The sad truth is, one of the earliest things we learn in school is the one we forget the fastest. Because we don't like it. At all.
Humans are 98% genetically identical to chimpanzees.
And evolution takes millions of years. Which means we're 100% identical to cavemen.
And the world will not get better any time soon. Because all of us are just instinct and reaction, wrapped in a bedtime story we invented in our own heads. We call it our personality.
Thats the depressing truth.
So fromsoft saves another from going hollow.
I think this is what it's all about.
Not about comfort but determination in ethical thought despite dystopian environments and unimaginable challenge in our way.
If we can put ourselves in the position of the protagonist then we can understand the challenges and ethial questions that fromsoftware really wants us to consider.
Something about that method of gameplay combined with story telling is deeply beautiful to me.
Ikr! playing this game was so immersive
AC really does have this thing... i mean.. spoilers for AC2... the whole plot of that game, is about a man that freed his race from an AI that used to ran them, while they lived on basically a city sized doomsday prepper underground bunker, while this man at first felt he did the right thing, the worst side of his own race started to bare their fangs out far too often, far too much, so this man decides that if this continues some kind of inevitable disaster will happen, unending wars for resources, tyranny, economical inequality, casts, the whole kit... and to avoid this, he decided to recreate what was the reason he was trapped in his past, he wanted to shove Phobos' one of Mars' moons into the planet, where a quite recent colonization effort was started, to force humanity to unite, retreat and enforce a new form of super AI to overwatch them. to make things return to the controlled state it was before, because humanity scares him, to be precise, the potential for great evil that lies in humans that dont have limits imposed on them.
Damn
Bro kinda sounds like an alternate version of Char.
Leos Klein's *(aka AC: MoA Raven/Protagonist)* lore:
@@Plazmasoldier ac2 main antagonist is similar to char but his motivation are make more sense compare to char.
Ac world are normally very powerful with corporation and AI with the enormous power that always watching how the average human doing like you are being watch 24/7. To make sure the power of all the factions are balanced.
So nobody have enough freedom to make secret plan like how they started making prototype gundam.
So the only one that can change the power balance are either humanity fine some very op resources or someone is born with so much power ( aka you the main character)
And Ac augmented pilot have longer lifespan than normal human.
So he see things more than average normal human Life
One thing about humanity you didn't mention is how easily we adapt to new environments. Add on terraforming technology and we could change planets to our preference. It's up to us to decide how and which planets are changed. Ideally we would go with planets like Venus, ones that could have life if the atmosphere was altered. If we go to planets with life on them then hopefully we would be responsible with what life we bring along. Also we would hopefully not go full Star Trek and make a torpedo that sucks up planets and makes a new one in it's place.
Oh yea that's a very good point.
It's not up nobody, just fantasy
@@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman The game is fantasy, but terraforming is a very real possibility. Even terraforming Venus is a possibility, just that it will take centuries to even just freeze the current atmosphere and turn it into an ice moon.
I think ALLMIND's ending is the perfect exploration of these themes. The corporations have no need for conflict: AC6's galaxy should be by all means a post-scarcity utopia, yet corporations fight anyway because conflict creates necessity, and necessity drives progress. Humanity could not escape the environment they evolved in, a world of constant conflict and strife driving evolution by necessity, so they simply recreated it in space. ALLMIND, though, saw the coral as a superior lifeform, born from innate cooperation and symbiosis instead of conflict, and decided that humanity should learn from it.
With Coral Release, you cross over to "the other side". Not just the other side of the human/coral divide, but the other side of human nature: humanity's ability to transcend our natural drives towards greed and exploitation, and instead seek evolution and cooperation. Natural instinct is what drives greed, but humanity is special _because_ we can see beyond that and act altruistically. It's just difficult for us.
ALLMIND almost understood this, but fell short because she felt that humanity itself could not be saved, and each individual consciousness must be atomized and turned into coral soup in order to start from scratch. And, the nature of conflict creating new necessity meant that she had to rely on pawns like Iguazu, whose selfish drives were so strong that they overtook ALLMIND herself. But Raven and Ayre were able to overcome both of them with their own individual will, showing that it was possible for humanity to change by itself, and allowing Coral Release to happen without destroying everyone's selfhood.
Wow not at all what I go out of the game. Got All Mind was trying to force humanity to evolve. The die is cast tends to mean the future is uncertain but you can't back out anymore.
Also most AC games, corps are fighting because an ai is making them fight to maintain a status quo. When you as the player break that it tries to kill you. To me it's more about breaking a cycle that corporate greed although those themes are there.
@@ibysdagon4659 I get that's how it is for most AC games, but ALLMIND is different from the controller AIs in the rest of the series. For one, she's not a world controller, she's just an assistant AI for mercenaries. As such, she's a third party to all of the corporate conflicts, and has no stake in maintaining control.
I think it's more clear in her descriptions in the Analysis arena, which are effectively her research notes on observing human behavior as an outsider entity. She doesn't seem to have any goals other than human evolution, and is far more like an ecologist describing the behaviors of an animal species in the wild. She seems occupied primarily with how humans use ACs to augment their influence over their environment, and how humanity uses technology to extend their capabilities beyond the limits of their own biology. Therefore, she wants to help free them from the burden of their nature by merging humanity with the freeform nature of coral.
This imo makes sense for an AI designed to help AC pilots in particular: she wants to understand ACs themselves and how best to aid pilots in their goals, but her conclusions are far more abstract and far-reaching than was intended by her creators. Her actions are "benevolent", in a bizarre, twisted way. She's giving humanity what it wants: an escape from themselves.
@@MarshmallowRadiation well the controller and all the other ai was created with humanities best 8ntrest at heart. Just does it in a cold machine logic was that's not in humanities best interest. All Mind did little to show she is diffrent.
Like look at what she did. Spoilers for anyone that did go through new game ++.
First she makes a body for symbiosis by basically living to the entire merc community. Then does black op operations to insure all factions are on even kilt. She sends Sulla to kill you, kills RLF members that need coral to feed their families and this is all before she freezes you without permission and waits until all forces wipe each other out.
On top of that, anyone that knows the plan turns traitor and tries to stop her. And when you reach the end she attacks you and Ayre with a semi brainwashed Iguazu she got by pulling his corpse out his wreck and doing who knows what to him. When he revolts her first instinct is to kill him.
I'm saying this because her idea of evolution is that cold machine logic version devoid of any knowledge of what a human soul is. She has good intentions but ever ai had that. Makes her a pretty hardcore anti villain.
Yeah humans suck blahs blahs but what's the proof symbiosis is better? I mean remember what Ayre says when you first meat her? "I was alone for so long. Nobody even knew I was there." Kind of tells me Ayre is a victim of the Fires of Ibis and was just existing as gas for 50 years. Being stuck in an unfeeling machine doesn't seem like much of an upgrade to me. O'Keefe, a man who is a die hard pessimist says, "you're chasing a possibility you can't understand." Which is the key issue I have with the ending (in an intellectual way not in a entertainment) best case it could be what you say. Everyone evoles to a higher power and goes singing onto the universe full of possibilities. Could just be as likely that 90% of humanity are now dead and the rest go insane from being trapped in ACs for eterinty and start the machine genocide of existence. We don't know one way or another and the only people that are for it are villains and to be honest was starting to think Ayre was in that villain camp as well at the end.
@@ibysdagon4659 I'm not saying that ALLMIND was right, or even good. I'm under no illusion that she's not an absolute villain. Her goals and actions are flat-out evil, and twisted and flawed on a fundamental level. Coral existence _isn't_ an answer to human nature. What I'm saying is that Raven and Ayre through their actions prove that humanity itself is the answer to human nature.
On one hand, human nature is prone to exploitation, domination, oppression, and greed. But human nature is also the ability to recognize those faults, and to strive to be better. Coral can't do that, only acting on fragmentary impulses and instincts -- and Ayre definitely isn't immune to Coral's instincts either, as evidenced by her sense of "belonging" when close to large amounts of other Coral. So ALLMIND is wrong in that regard, and humanity should not surrender everything they are to the Coral.
But when Ayre says at the end "we have the trigger, and we'll pull it ourselves", that to me is a sign that changing human nature is not something that is itself evil. It can be something positive, it just requires something that ALLMIND lacks: a respect for and understanding of the individual will.
I wouldn't call Father Dolmayan or V.III O'Keefe "good guys" either, really. Dolmayan is a depressed fatalist, believing that the rebellion he started is doomed and that Rubicon has no future but destruction. O'Keefe is also fatalistic, content to just gulp down his "coffee-flavored sludge" and simply tolerate the status quo, because he equates that with being human. They both have good reasons to feel that way, and ALLMIND's plan specifically isn't something _anyone_ would want, but that doesn't mean that they're right that the die shouldn't be cast, and that humanity shouldn't change. Change doesn't have to be negative, as long as you understand what's worth fighting for and preserving.
And what's "worth preserving" is pretty clear, I think. The name "Raven" is a sign of individual will, a "symbol of resolve" as Dolmayan says. Ravens choose for themselves how they want to change the world, whether that be for good or ill. But the important thing is that they do it out of their own will, not the will of corporations, or mad AI, or handlers with their own agendas, or even human instinct. They navigate the world by deciding for themselves what they should do, not simply following along with others' will, nor even rejecting it outright. Rusty wants you to find a reason to fight, Walter is content to know you're fighting for the sake of a friend you chose yourself, and Ayre supports you no matter what choices you make (well, almost). Freedom, resolve, cameraderie, and the human spirit is clearly something very important to all of the more "good" characters in the game, and those things are what ALLMIND tries to destroy along with greedy and exploitative instinct. Those things are what Raven fights for, in the end. Fighting to acknowledge and preserve the good in humanity, despite the bad.
@@MarshmallowRadiation oh don't get me wrong, O'Keefe and Dolmayan are at best old war dogs. One is a double agent and assassin and the other is a drug addict that founded a bunch of zealots. But really everyone is like that. That includes 621, Rusty, and Ayre. I mean Rusty is the same as O'Keefe ultimately, just not as jaded and fighting for a different cause and the 1 thing I agree with Iguazu on is 621 does have an ocean of blood on his hands. Ayre watches him through all of it and doesn't care. Like Carla shooting missile at the top shelf and Ayre remarking on how pretty it is. But that said I think nobody is out right evil either.....besides Snail and maybe Pater.
Guess where I differ is I feel Rubicion goes outvof it's way to kill any humanity the world has. Like the most human faction is probably the RLF and they are borderline terrorists. Balam just throws lives away on a whim and Arquibus strips it's opponets of the very nature of who they are. O'Keefe is probably the most real oneveryones situation and the Ravens, well they are all dead now. All that freedom fighting, all that spirit was beaten by a brain addled merc with a blade fetish. Imo that is kind of it for them. Only one that know about them and the organizations legacy is a mute and a ghost that can't tell any one (although I felt Nightfall was handled very poorly). So this ending to me strips away what little humanity is in the world. 621 doesn't even have a body now (supposedly). Would like that perspective you have but I don't see it and AC 6 makes me sad.
But really I think that's the point to make it so people can have these talks. Say 1 vid where the conclusion was way worst than my take. Where coral was going to destroy humanity. Didn't really buy it but he made some good points.
So a bit of a clarification.
Coral did not decide to grow expontially and cause a collaspe.
Coral only appears to be able to grow exponentially in a complete/or near complete vacuum aka outer space. This is why the Vascular Plant (which is a fun little pun btw) is so massive. It needs to be to in order to reach outer space to generate the most Coral possible for the corporations to exploit. Unfortunately this growth could become unstable as more and more Coral Mutations (entities of the Coral such as Ayre) develop as well as more Coral in general until it reached a singualrity of growth, which Nagai and some otheres called a Coral Collapse.
That being said you are still right in that humanity and greed are to blame, as without humans intervening and allowing for such a scenario to happen, the Coral would have likely remained dormant indefinitely as Coral can't "do" anything without there being something for it to interact with such as machines, networks, ACs, ect.
mutant Coral already grow expontially in under atmosphere explained by Carla vacuum just made then growth even more even without Vascular Plant Coral still reach Coral collaspe
Thanks for the clarification.
@@LitP1neapple // humanity and greed are to blame//
Too simplistic as while they are part of the equation but real issue is about dilemmas of Human condition i.e. Choices, actions & consequences in which some see future potential while other's see utter destruction.
Thanks for coral bit as it bothered me too when i watched the video first time.
@@dsbdsb6637 So he is still correct. Human condition is humanity. Its what makes us different from other species on the planet. Take that away, we'll be no different to our other great ape brethren
@@pillarmenn1936 // Human condition is humanity //
Not really, they are 2 diff. concept. - Humanity is abt. human-human interaction mostly {ethics, morals etc.} while Human condition is Humans in relation to everything & human limitations/contradictions {e.g. Anthropocene epoch}.
The Romans had a saying: Necessity is the mother of conquest.
Humanity has a natural predilection towards domination and conquest. There are many even in 'free' societies who worship at the altar of power. Some for greed, others solely for the purpose of having power over others.
The predilection towards war was only tempered after the fires of WWII because people pulled themselves from the brink. Of what would have been the total atomic devastation that would have been WWIII had the doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction failed to deter total war.
But man is quick to forget, and now we creep towards the sins of the past in hopes of obtaining glittering prizes, or a conquerors crown.
And the cycle continues.
OR external forces have influenced by nature peaceful populations into conflict through creating differences of opinion and hardships, straying them away from what used to be center of common ground; providing for your commune, keeping it safe.
Everybody is a slave to something.
@@wolfx.2546this, some big companies seem to be trying to sow discontent and divide large populations of people. Making us unable to realise their obvious manipulations as they poke each group while blaming the others, directing outrage at groups who are really victim’s of such manipulation who are pushed to be martyrs sparking further outrage while deepening the divide. This is stopping opposing groups from communicating without hostility and thus preventing the grounding of wild unrealistic perspectives through real experience
HUURRRRAAAAAH WW3
THANK YOU you said so many things about ac6 that no one else is talking about. A socially relevant story about topics that are so absolute for humanity is a special story anywhere, but in a video game it’s something else. I want everyone to know about it!
Thank you for watching! Glad to hear this.
"Is oppression Natural?"
You wont like the answer but it starts with a Y and ends with a ES
To add to the point on the Corporations, the liberation front has people who KNOW the Coral is sentient, but they are too afraid of what unleashing will do. The unknown of rapid change also plays into the oppression of Coral.
They want to coexist BUT with humanity holding all the cards which isn’t true coexistence but soft subjugation.
The follow up to AC6 is going to be really interesting
You argue that Research is a way to counter fear and greed leading to oppression. However, the Rubicon RESEARCH Institute is arguably one of the most fucked corps as you find all of the horrors that they produced and experimented with. Research is nothing but a tool, it's not good nor bad, it depens on what you use that knowledge for.
Great video man, I love when videos like this spark debate and conversation about some game's themes.
Thanks! Yes you're right, it is a tool and needs a better way of usage
Where stability cannot be found or obtained then people will inevitability pursue control. Companies are run by people who are a afraid of instability, and through greed they can insulate themselves form instability. However, greed allow only insulates, but control will guarantee stability. Once control is gained the greed becomes aimless.
The coral never fought back
It lacks the power.
What happened was the head of the rubicon research institute, professor nagai, realized that coral propagates swiftly withon a vacumm, its ideal environment, and if allowed to do so it could bring about a collapse of civilization as humanity knows it. Thus, due to this fear, he activates IBIS and sends it to destroy the coral to prevent what he sees as a horrible disaster. Hence why it was called The Fires Of IBIS. Nagai’s fear led to him and him alone, not humanity as a whole, burning the stars. This still speaks to human action, especially as, afaik OVERSEER was made up of a lot of Nagai’s former colleagues who escaped the flames. They too fear a collapse and seek coral’s destruction
I'd like to make a contradicting opinion that ruining the ecosystem in an act of asserting dominance and thriving is something completely natural as we humans aren't the first to do it. One of the earliest ice ages happened due to rising oxygen level in the Earth's atmosphere caused by the large number of sea plants trying to thrive and grow as much as possible, and we all know that every ice age causes mass extinction of many species and this one is no different.
The only difference that we humans have to other species is our ability to make sophisticated tools and structures which makes us much more powerful than other species. And considering that other species will consistently use human tools once they learned how to use them and what benefits they have shows that other species will use and might even make these tools if they have the capability.
(I'm gonna go on a rant down here which may not even corollate to the subject at hand so feel free to ignore it, but if you don't then share your opinions cause I'd like to hear them)
I think that many people make the misconception that nature is peaceful and balanced for the three reasons:
1. Humans are so powerful compared to other species that whatever they do pales in comparison and become so insignificant, even though brutal wars between species is very common in nature.
2. Animals that we keep as pets or kept at zoo are very docile towards humans. The answer why they act this way is very simple, humans are very powerful compared to them, but humans aren't merciless and will provide them with food and shelter if humans think they're worth keeping around which is why they become very docile towards us. (emotions certainly play a role here and it's not all just logic)
3. People with these misconceptions never lived close to the wilderness and experience how sometimes, things that we consider savage are necessary. I've personally lived in these villages for long enough to know how living close to the wilderness feels like, everything that is hunted is to be cherished, skinning animals sometimes have to be done when their still alive. Call it inhumane but I think fishing and hunting as a hobby is even more inhumane because they're not even doing it out of necessity.
I love thess points. Yes and with that I wonder what happens when animals evolve to a point where they can develop or use human tools or something similar
i agree with pretty much all of these point but why do you have to skin something alive? i highly doubt that's necessary in any circumstance but i will hear you out
I'd argue that a necessary defining feature of nature is the maintenance a certain homeostasis, though it must submit to larger cycles. Humans are now able to impact the balance of nature to such an extent that we can affect those larger cycles (e.g. via geoengineering) and have therefore become something which exceeds nature.
Exactly
Armored Core is a series like no other, and it’s topics have never been more relevant.
It always great to hear different points of view about the story and their choices. This game opens up exploration of ethical values and meanings so well that its always great to hear more people discuss it and bring in their own experiences and knowledge into it.
Only halfway through your video and it’s already the most profound response I’ve heard that elucidated the deeper points of the story better than I’ve heard anyone else do on here. Skål!
🙏
Great vid. I'd argue that what corporations decide to do is NOT humanity... Or rather, it'd be the complete lack of humanity. The saying stems from "a person is smart, a group of people is dumb". And corporations is the worst form of such entities - a corporation is not human. A corp is not designed to be humane, nor run with humanity in mind. As you said, a corp is interested in self-preservation. So it'd do what needs to be done to maximize their return on profit.
On the other hand, humanity can be... Well, humane. We have international laws against poaching endangered species. We have come a long way of civil rights to ensure our rights are becoming more equal. While, obviously we van also be brutal, as seen by the recent mass killings and wars. However, the point is that humanity has the potential to do good... But it's not going to be easy.
Playing Cyberpunk 2077 after finishing AC6 really hammered these feelings into me.
On the corporate side of things, I think back to Arasaka and Militech and how’d they compare to the corporations of Armored Core. Think of their power and notoriety in the world of Cyberpunk and how they have most of the world governments between their fingertips.
Compared to interstellar corporations such as Arquebus and Balam with their own private armies of MTs, elite squads of ACs and certainly fleets of star faring warships, they would be mere SUBSIDIARIES and are more comparable to Dafeng and Schneider.
Actually? Imagine how much more destructive and horrifying the world of Cyberpunk would be if any of their corporations got their hands on ACs, NEXTs or MTs. That or it’d be largely the same.
Yes this is something similar to cyberpunk's dystopian world
Theirs a caveat to all this. Coral forms different consciousness' that think independently from one another. While ayre seems disgusted at the thought people are using coral as fuel, the coral that father dolmyan made contact with actively encouraged him to injest coral. He got incredibly disgusted with himself because he thought injesting coral is like injesting humans, and at the time he really felt he would consume humans just to maintain contact with the coral, although it appears the wave be spoke to didnt see it the same way. Hes a recovering coral addict. And lets not forget that its very likely that the ayre ending and the all mind ending have the same conclusion, thats why they never even hint at what plan ayre has in her ending, just a trust me bro.
Coral is like Living Spice from Dune.
To answer your question around 5:20, Greed is just a form of fear with a mask on it. Greed comes from the fear of scarcity
I mean other species can be genocidal to each other but that tends to happen after things like predators are reduced or an invasive species outcompetes the previous owner or something.
Just saying. I do agree, we are not beasts. We cannot justify ourselves compared to the actions of animals, nor can we live like plants.
it's pretty much like in all of sci fi, when humanity reaches beyond earth, we do these sorts of things. examples, mobile suit gundam, mass effect, warframe (the orokin empire) the Galactic empire in star wars, doom 2016 and eternal. I'm probably forgetting some, but those were off the top of my head (also cyberpunk (genre) and the corpus in warframe)
Kind of the 2 issues I have with this analyses is the institute had 2 camps, right? 1 with the crazies that thought gen 1 augmentation was a good thing and other comically evil things. 2nd was the chill out camp that Walter was a part of. Where I take issue is nobody in that camp could stop the fires of ibis so from Walter's perspective, Coral is just a bomb.
Guess that feeds into #2 which I probably should have lead with, nobody besides All Mind, 621, and Father Dyolmian (sorry if I butchered that) really seem to know Coral is alive. So to use your analogy it's more like finding out gas is a semi sentient fungal colony. Although really we only have 2 examples there that coral is even aware on that level.
Not saying your conclusions are wrong but I'm saying the story is vague enough that it's open to interpretation. Unless I missed something in which case please correct.
Also I guess ACs are using coral as a data conduit, not fuel. Which kind of goes back to the crazy side, why would you shovel red space fungus into someone's nervous system but then again botox exists. But yeah they runt on standard engines somehow. Unless your using a coral gen. Would expect atleast nuclear but nope ice.
Yes the story being open to interpretation is where I think those experiments could have led to a communication about coral's nature on Rubicon ( I could have completely fked up here but this is what I got from it)
In the logs, the data was stored about the nature of Coral, and they also mention it in cutscenes. If the logs are out there, could it be only one log ? Or there could be multiple of them to inform about their discovery?
I don't know if the people who were informed about the nature of the coral, and the voices in the head informed others or made it public
BUT from the talks, where Walter mentions " you're still hearing the voices right ? Pay no attention to them" (paraphrasing here) maybe made me believe that it could have become a known thing ?
Yea and I get why Walter thinks what he thinks as his mission was mainly to save humanity, and he was tunnel visioned on that.
@@LitP1neapple I'm sure people have made contact but I mean if you're hearing voices is that an alien talking to you or are you going crazy. I mean the quote after that was, "it's a common side effect of gen 4 augmentation, don't worry about it." Plus higher you get the less it happens. Just feel like all the symptoms of shoving weird stuff into your brain, it's hard to justify it's coral talking to you. I mean look at Iguazu's reaction. Feel like that's him ease dropping on Ayre or something else but it just drives him crazy. Dolmyan is the closest one but I mean the drug addict that found god then found out god is evil and tries to kill you over it.
I don't remember any specific data logs besides the, "omg it's gonna explode stop poking at it!" Followed by ,"nah it's fine". I think that they would have figured it out, they were trying everything but Ibis happened first.
Personally, I think the Fires of Ibis was humanity poking oil with a fire stick. I don't think that was corals doing just from what the institute was doing.
But really the only person that seems to know what the real nature of coral is is All Mind which makes me question what symbiosis is as when All Mind says she's for all mercs, I don't think she's lying there. Plus the name of the ending. Feels like she was trying to forcibly evolve humanity through coral which isn't ethical to either species and kind of made me distrust Ayre seeing she is so on board with it.
......game gave me trust issues.
@@ibysdagon4659 yea the voices could have been understood as a side effects of using coral. When it comes to Allmind.... Man that thing is so sus.. like...bruh
Great video! I was very positively surprised. Btw, at 4.33 you mention that the corporations may do unspeakable things to survive in a market. I'd argue that's not on the company, but the capitalistic system itself being extremely flawed. When some companies start being exploitative, all others in that niche must do the same, and since the market always sucks up any pockets of untapped wealth, it's ignorant to hope that the corporations will have the moral decency to not gain a huge profit. The entire story of Rubicon has been this effect in motion. As soon as branch leaked that Rubicon still had coral, the corporations rushed to find out. When they found that the local population was using coral to feed their civilian population, the market does what it does best, and maximize profit, by seizing the coral, causing the liberation front to sell out some coral (how else would they have had the money to weaponize the strider, wall and the contaminated city?). With this new threat to their profits, the corporations systematically destroyed and oppressed all Rubiconian defence. And as this proved good for profits, the other corps followed.
Oh it was armored core 6, and not the internet as a whole?
Well.. 😂
Now that I think about it, a lot of things have been happening in the world right now and these two massive wars could definitely have influenced me to make this video.
I really try to stay away from politics as I am not at all knowledgeable in it but I like videogames and anime.
anything mecha or sci-fi typically do that.
The whole aspect of Coral is basically a reverse theme for movies like Matrix and War of Worlds where humans are the energy source
Dope video man you made allot of great points that speak to how we should be
Thanks 🙏
I'd argue that suffering and oppressions are rather core aspects of the human species. We, being sympathetic and far more sapient than anything that has come before us, are built to endure the reality of our existence while also trying to overcome it. At an individual level we understand we'll have to endure all sorts of pain, being needing to work, deal with sickness, deal with the emotional pains of living is social groups and so on. From this we've developed an understanding to a certain inevitability to suffering, which not only sets us up to be willing to accept suffering of either or others (usually out of knowing that worse suffering will come if we don't) but also puts us in position to want to oppress. Oppression that being seeking the means to control things and to mitigate this suffering on an instinctual level. In the monkey mind that we possess having more means more security. With this in mind, its hard to fault humanity for the evils it commits when so much of it stems from our very nature, one still very much beyond our control. This especially when considering that, ironically, inducing suffering in others moreso results in the control of others, rather than the rebellion many hope for. Cite most of human history for that reality to set in.
Too, I'd like to remind that humanity still isn't all that much different than all the nature that has come before us. Sympathy and sapience have allowed for us to differentiate ourselves, but only just. The ability to empathize with the creatures around us is often over-represented and our own empathy system is still quite faulty in its own right. That we develop things like parasocial relationships or project our humanity onto things that do not experience emotions as we do, if at all, are proofs of this. As well, while our sapience is grand compared to most all other lifeforms, your average person is still only ever able to see a few years ahead of ourselves as far future predictions are concerned. From what I can tell, reality is still far too complex for us individually to effectively parse, let alone as a collective species. That we as a species would spend so much focus and time trying to avoid or alleviate suffering I think is evidence of our species immaturity, as many of the problems we face would be so much easier to solve (from a pragmatic perspective) if we could just force ourselves to endure a painful but effective solution. But that would take away control from the individual, which is far scarier.
To summarize: in the same way we don't fault the lion for eating a gazelle alive, I won't fault humanity for its own inner evil. We're still very young; and we're gonna need a lot of time and lessons to grow up.
One thing I'd like to point out is after CEL fight, Arye says "the will of the machine, imparted by its creators(...)" and I remember her saying something similar for the Sea Spider.
I don't think C-weapons are controled by coral. Influenced? Yes, as seen with ice worm, but not controled.
When we are destroying C-weapons, we are destroying coral waveforms that had little to do with them.
Imagine if in ww2 allies just bombed the certain types of caps instead of liberating them. That's what we're doing in this game to coral because there is no other option.
Try as you might you will never escape entropy. 😂😂😂
I stand with human supremach no matter what
Have you considred humanity as a whole has become an intelligence capable of tampering the dominion of collective intelligence of earth.
your explanation blow my minds
i don't like listening to this kind of stuff
but you make alooot of sense
Thanks 🙏
In my view Coral is probably just another typical allegory for nuclear energy, just like Godzilla. Both from Japan of course. And Fires of Ibis is probably meant to be Hiroshima etc. And just like Godzilla, it's a great fictional story born out of lack of understanding and irrationality towards just a new technology that is otherwise unquestionably beneficial and a progress for human civilization. It's ironic, that this philosophical perspective of "humanity dealing with something they don't understand" merely comes from the author's lack of understanding, not humanity's.
Nuclear energy is just a power source, coral isn't. Coral is a seemingly supernatural entity capable of anything, even consciousness under certain conditions. Coral's significantly more complex symbolically than just nuclear energy especially given the context of the full story.
@@marksmanmerc1 Sure, we are not talking about what nuclear energy is in reality, but how certain people sentimentally perceive it and are against its use as a result. Godzilla is a supernatural entity capable of many things, yet it was still conceived as a stand-in for nuclear energy based on a flawed philosophical concept that mankind should not mess with an unfathomable entities. The thing is that nuclear energy is not at all unfathomable, but this trope/meme comes from the fact that the author found it unfathomable and terrible.
Well, oppression IS natural. You simply cannot exist while not oppressing someone in some way - a simple conclusion from the Liebig's law.
Actually, AC series (mostly AC4A) inspired me and some friends to write our own sci-fi universe. And while it began as a simple worldbuilding experiment sixteen years ago, now it has shifted into the pure conceptualism.
Isn’t Liebig’s law just that a living things growth is based on the most minimum required resource? It’s a law of natural bottle necks. How does that relate to oppression in anyway? Especially because “oppression is necessary for life” is such a wild claim. Do we have different definitions of the word oppression? “Prolonged Unjust treatment and control”
@@isacsln Yes. Capacity of _any_ (not necessarily natural per se) system is defined by the most deficient factor. By existing you are denying it for others, while they are denyng it for you. And amount of exclusively available factor define success. So, there is nothing 'unjust'.
as you saw what happened in Coral Release when Overseer can't genocide Coral everyone die " Feed the Fire,Let's the last Cinders Burn ":D
Yea
Yeah sums it up if you look back other AC games you question humanity and the corporations Heck look at AC 4, For answer, and Nexus
I should play other AC games
@@LitP1neapple Yeah if you have the time and money they can be fun and more difficult compared to the others. It just depends on which one like Old Gen and fourth generation
@@Rockstar-lk9wz ah.... Man. Guess when I have money I will
fantastic video.
🙏
Natural? Yes. Good? Eeeehhh...
Youveinspired me to the AC6 bid ive wanted to do.
I thmk it is however
Hell yea
It reminds me of the Divine Genome/God gene, that so far only human beings own. I think the genome participate on our will to survive longer, our divine passions, ultimately our greed to possess what could extend our existence into any kind of transcendance to get closer and closer of a transcendantal being, a "God".
The Coral doesn't need that, they own a different logic, close to what nature could be in the end, peaceful and yet deadly.
I like your editing style and narration. I would only suggest a little less cursing. I liked and subscribed.
Thanks. Working on less cursing but it's hard haha 😂
Also balteus isnt powered by coral
This is why I'm for destroying humanity in this game than coral, I felt like an invader and I personally don't want aliens to invade me and use me as fuel so why would I do it. Ayre had her reasons to making contact with Raven/621, and it's up to the player to make a choice. I chose to free the coral and give them a chance to supersede humanity even destroy it as they're the victims who deserve the reprisal towards my kind. We're the enemies in the eyes of many and that's okay. I know we're not the good guys, we have the ability to cause mass extinction on a planetary scale much greater than anything on earth. but others can have the responsibility to maintain order selflessly for the sake of a greater good, the ecosystem.
I chose to side with Ayre as well
You side with Ayre because of guilt
I side with Ayre for humanity evolution
*We not the same.PNG*
If you want to kill Humanity, Oh boy, Armored Core For Answer has you covered there
@@moisesezequielgutierrez I'm well aware of the 3rd ending, but I do not seek out the destruction of mankind, just reprisal in context of AC6. That last mission was ungodly difficult
Great video 👍
Thanks 🙏
Bro that's crazy
The coral isn't fighting back. It's exponential growth is just the coral acting on instinct. It isn't sentient. It's like plants, plants don't "fight back". The only time coral is sentient are the personalities produced from coral mutations that occur when those who've undergone augmentation experience an overexposure of coral. Unlike plants however, coral undergoes miraculous growth and evolution, and coral release is the endpoint, where it assimulates humanity and gains reality bending abilities akin to an eldritch horror. Because of this I see coral as something similar to Honkai in Honkai Impact 3rd. For this reason, I actually believe coral release is the most bad ending, and if it wasn't for the obvious good ending where you team up with rusty, fires of raven would be my top choice. I mean look at the terrifying absolute solver looking singularity created by the coral and tell me the coral isn't some eldritch cosmic horror.
Is it the bad ending? Like you said coral doesn't have a mind of it's own and symbiosis is a purely artificial act. The 3rd ending is just so ambiguous regarding the rest of humanity. Could be everyone became a floating consciousness able to manipulate ACs or that only Raven and Ayre became omnipresent gods, now forcing a universal peace on humanity through coral using all armored cores which the final "engaging combat mode" seemingly implies. Why would an AI like allmind care about coral and be interested in taking Ayre from us otherwise? If it was a coral mutation or had purely altruistic goals it wouldn't have needed to take Ayre from us or attack at all.
@@marksmanmerc1 Allmind is definitely evil. I don't know for sure since I don't have ac6, but since raven and ayre are essentially the adam and eve for the next stage of coral evolution, I believe Allmind was trying to integrate them into her so that she would have control over the newly evolved coral produced after coral release.
@@Nekro_Knight I don't think allmind cared to control it, and the thought that Allmind had an objective any different from yours at all isn't really true.
In that ending, you and Allmind have the same end goal.
The thing you are fighting for is to have the choice. Allmind wasn't choosing, it was an algorithm trying to go on a path for its objective.
You are a representation of the will to choose and make that decision.
@@FarremShamist wait really? That's why we did it? So we could be the one to push the button? That's so petty.
Why was Allmind trying to kill us then?
@@Nekro_Knight Allmind questioned why YOU were fighting, actually. And that's just the thing--you were fighting so you had the choice, to make your own path. Allmind was not going to let you have that decision. Even Ayre says it; You're going to trigger Coral Release >without< Allmind.
Cool video. Take a look at the archaeological evidence. Just like we have evidence of hierarchical societies, there’s also evidence of people not actively subjugating each other and their environment. I don’t think humans have any intrinsic mode of subjugation or egalitarianism, but rather curiosity or belligerence, capable and disposed to empathy or not. I’m deeply suspect of people who give sweeping generalizations about human nature, especially those that think subjugation is the default state. I don’t mean that there shouldn’t be conflict but there are any number of nonviolent or less violent conflict resolutions that people engage in every day.
I think the trouble begins when we start making nation states, and start differentiating people by their identity and citizenry, are they out group? Well they can be treated differently than we would treat ourselves. Look at how covid was treated and vaccine access, regardless of your feelings individually, why did the so called third world get left to flounder and received its doses much later, despite being the center of manufacture in some cases.
Armored Core uses mega corporations instead of nation states but they operate similarly, paramilitary orgs and corporate owned space like a company town in the late 1800s early 1900’s mining towns. The first bombs dropped on US soil were those from the national guard on miners who were unhappy with the living standards and working conditions enforced by the private police force owned by the mining companies.
Sick video, one of my favorite games since Signalis last year. There’s so much political philosophy in this franchise and even in Dark Souls as well that people lose sight of because muh cool lore. But what’s dark souls about? A fading hierarchy that is willing to sacrifice itself and create a myth of self sacrifice to ensure the age of fire (controlled by gods) perpetuates itself rather than slip into an age of dark (man)
Great video. I know you said you messed up. Bit I agree with everything you said.
We can't hold ourselves to the same standards as bears and lions cuz we can, and are killing the planet. They cant😊.
It's about capitalism, its not just all humanity. capitalism runs on oppression, some people act like capitalism is how the universe works, but thing's haven't always been like this, and we aren't at the end of history. Like you said, only so long people can live like this, deaths of so many for the profit of so few, horrific acts like the banana wars, britain's invasion of India, israel's genocide, etc, I don't think things will be like this forever. riots are neither good nor bad, it's just what happens when the pot boils over
Agree, there is a lot going on this world right now and the timing of this game and the events could have influenced me to the interpretation of the plot in this game
What alternative do you propose? Communism?
@@sixthcairn yes, neoliberalism will never be enough, housing should be a right and the working class deserves to see the fruits of their labor. marx says socialism is inevitable, just like capitalism was inevitable. capitalist propaganda says communism is just as bad as fascism, and it just legitimizes fascism since people don't even know what communism is. see so many people who think no owning property means the government take all your possessions, and people who don't understand socialist countries in the past are not instances of communism, socialism is what will bring about the conditions for communism and that is why they call themselves communist. China is not an instance of communism either even though they have the CCP, things are not so simple
Wait aren’t the Capitalism usually mean “nothing more than the two of us consenting to each other's terms for the exchange of our property, absent force or coercion”?
@@linkersjacken8032 no that is not the definition, the black market is a part of capitalism, from human trafficking to things like USA funding what would become al qaeda after the soviet afghan war. even above table corruption is lucrative, and the rich think themselves ingenuitive for finding ways to exploit labor or scam consumers. cutting corners is the way to profit, so no wonder people do it. no wonder people patent life saving medicines and price gouge on housing, it's easy and legal, and we call ourselves successful because it bloats GDP while americans are in food deserts with lead in the pipes
Makes me kinda sneery just thinking that some people are so cynical about life, that they play this game, reach a surface level understanding of it's backdrop and setting, then think to themselves "Yeah that's it. Humanity just sucks dood".
After I finished this game for the 3rd time all I could think was the choices made, the characters that I absolutely loved despite never even seeing their faces, the implication of human free will (which is what the game is actually all about) overpowering an all consuming hive mind, and of course humanity quite literally becoming infused with limitless potential.
Yes I definitely understand that, but I also can't ignore the dystopian world that we play this game in. I may have looked over positives of the game because I thought of negatives of that world.
I love this game and would play the entire series from now on.
bro you gotta tell us where that thumbnail art is from
Tf something removed my comment
i wana watch this but i still havent finished the game 😁
I recommend finishing the game just so you can make your own conclusions.
I have a short video to recommend to you.
Go ahead
Might makes right... or so, so wrong. What did Armored Core 4's intro say? "God is Force". The child who is raised well and rules righteously once their king and father is no more. Or is equipped to do so at least. Can choose to be a tyrant after their father dies. Wanting what we want as soon as possible or "too soon" causes us to take shortcuts at times even when our intention is righteous... never mind when it's not.
In sci-fi it's especially sad: all this technology that could be used for production of goods but there's that much conflict? It's not like it's just the minority of humans who choose to be criminals or ones with mental issues who happen to be driven to do horrible things. Most aren't willing to play the long game.
Even the best might make the cut off their friends and family, not wanting to hold back amassed power and do what's best for the majority if they need it then and there to protect their loved ones. That's not to blame them either. You have to develop that desire for what's best and even then you won't make all the right moves.
Even someone willing to play a longer game and accept harm to their loved ones may still feel rushed by the fact that people are dying while they set everything up to rule properly, not willing to see it like this: even if you raise the bar for justice once you die it's unlikely someone just like you will be around and continue the work so the bar will lower then.
It's extremely difficult to do what's best for humanity just factoring in your own thinking. Then throw in all the corruption that existed before you were born and have powerful positions, who will try to foil your plans because your goodness would cut into their vain desire for profit. It's extremely difficult to not take shortcuts.
Even the player in Armored Core, though, it's something of a gameplay limitation (for now) doesn't take the time to disable enemy mechs and try to recruit people to their cause. It would make for a very interesting experience to have an AC one day (when such development is practical) where you can basically form a PMC to try to change the dominant power of mechs to do what's good. Succeeding where Leos Klein and others did not.
I'd like to say Walter could've done more talking and less ambushing. At least make his intentions clear and then win the fight. Iguazu would've still been cross but not being shot in the back mid-mission may have caused things to turn out differently. Then again if people knew what Walter was after maybe one or more factions would've really focused down on stopping him. This is where having extra help by convincing pilots to come to your side comes in.
Staying ahead of evil is difficult. It requires a proactive stance. In a way evil is proactive and puts forth great efforts, because if not it's easily caught and perhaps brutally dealt with. You'd need a generation to help the next generation learn from a young enough age that there are those who are plotting to bring harm to others, rather than just taking it easy enjoying life. Most people do the latter and thus aren't amassing the power necessary to stand up to suppress evil intent as much as it could be.
An Armored Core where you're playing as one of that young generation who has been raised to achieve and/or maintain that peace (could even be 2 games) rather than being subject to corporations or mercenary work (other than a route for the player to rebel against that peace) would be interesting. I guess it'd be a bit like playing as a member of the PCA, actually going around to conflict sights to nip things in the bud whether it's of corporate or sheer criminal origin. From might very well theme such a thing after the round table or some other set of knights. I'm sure they have hundreds of settings waiting in the wings.
Given how people enjoyed White Glint and its protection of Line Ark I think people could get behind the premise of being a good guy in a more intense way than ever before in an Armored Core (while still letting you go astray like, well, Strayed).
imo humanity is all about money, sad true is that all suffering are conflicted for money...
most characters in the game all about profit
Greed is a major thing yea
I recommend Nietzsche if you want a different view on conflict as good and true to nature
Got it. I will check it out
I just beat metal gear solid five today .
" There are no facts, Is only interpretations" Is a quote from him express at the end of the game
This should have been longer you botched the ending.
Basically speaking, Armored Core 6 is based on capitalism' point of view. That's why we have war between two companies, war between companies against the local government (PCA), plus the local resistance against everyone else.
The PCA, as big as it sound, is just like a city government at best to me. A run-down city might be weak against two world-wide companies, but that is only when there is no national government backing.
That might sound right in Syria or Afganistan, but not in anywhere else in the world. And if you translate Coral into Oil, then yes, we're talking about 2 American companies bullying poor Iraq, with some mercs looking for quick cash or something else.
Walter is an extremist that wants to burn all oil so that Americans won't bully Iraq anymore, ignoring all lives that will be lost in the fire.
Ayre is a local, hoping to preserve the oil while waiting for a better day, but don't know how to reach it and when will it come, so she had to rely on an undependable merc (outsider). Too powerless to do things herself and too little knowledge to find a suitable way for the country, that's who she is.
ALLMIND is a hillarious character, looking for equal distribution of oil using a god-know-how method (a dark hole in the game), so that the bullying would stop and the Americans would live in harmony with the Iraqs. I can't say what's more foolish, the former or the latter, but its failure due to another brute is a fitting end. This shouldn't have been called true end, but imaginary end instead.
If you think about AC6 that way, then the struggle of most people depicted, although not rendered useless, would become less epic but more commonly seen in modern day of the Gaza strip.
Ah man... Even tho I try to stay away from politics as much as possible I simply can't ignore that these things are actually happening in the world.
Sorry but this video has many issues / mistakes.
Sorry about that.
No it doesn’t
It would be very constructive to the discussion if you elaborate on the issues so we may reach a higher level of collective understanding in the subject
>says there is are problems in a video
>explains nothing
> leaves
@@Vross_MKII
Main issue with the video is that it overlooks sequence of events {to the extent game conveys to us} which makes whole analysis too superficial. Another issue is that whole issue is too human centric {greed, power, lack of research etc.}. without taking into account human history. - These are just bigger isssues & the whole analysis / critique of this video would take far too long if done granularly.
E.g. Consider the opeaning ques. of the video
If we humans are part of the nature then why what we do is not considered natural ?
Because after colonization Westerners made such demarcations to justify their actions by making distinctions like Natural law, Positivism, Utalitarianism etc. {though process started during 'enlightenment'} & control over nature was a sign of progress while working with nature was a sign of backwardness & barbarism at the turn of 20th century.
If we substitute Coral with Palestine. We have the same issue happening right now.
Scary !
A fucking hivemind?
its important to remember the capitalist context of this universe. humanity is not evil, but the system and organizations that exploit those who are marginalized and disabled in case of 621. the rich and powerful oppress and exploit the weak. this is not a trait of humanity, but of the wealthy
*sees a critique of capitalism*: "is this a critique of enherent human nature?"
NO! Sit down you get an F!
I hate to be that person but if you wan't answers to these questions you're not gonna get around some good old Anarchist Theory because these are literaly central questions it deals with, watch some videos by Anark if you really want to know whether dominance hierarchy is natural or nessessary for humanity. (spoiler: no it's fucking not, it's not even healthy)