Thing is though, Word and Excel are tools, perfectly functional tools but nothing more, they aren't supposed to be inspiring in of itself, they are there to put your brilliant idea down somewhere. What Stephen seems to complain about is at it's heart: style. Which in this case is like complaining about a hammer not having a curved handle or a head with a designers name on it.
The first part yes, quite correct but the second rests on a false analogy as Windows' ubiquity and dullness are to design aesthetics as a plain white wall is to Eros. Or as old IT geeks used to say about HP: If HP were selling sushi they would advertise it as: cold dead fish with rice.
So what does he imagine could be done to make Excel a nicer program to work in? A GUI with colors and textures reminiscent of a building interior? A 20% opacity overlay of a tropical beach?
To be fair he was working with very limited processing and limiting moving objects and colours helps it actually run in the first edition of Windows, otherwise it would have lagged awfully, it's like complaining an Amazonian tree but doesn't have surround sound and a water slide with a heated jacuzzi
Excel is the best thing Microsoft ever made. Fry speaks from the position of an 'artist'; anyone who's trying to do serious work loathes the pretification of a functional system.
nah it's more of the fact he's an old person. when he got into mac it was back when you could code for mac and he and douglas adams liked to play with their macintoshes. That nostalgia kept him buying the product long after it became toy computer garbage.
I agree - mind you I'm an old person as well but I saw through the bs pretty quickly, let the isheep of the world keep lining the pocket of the Apple shareholders, forgive them for they know not what they do
LudvigIndestrucable MS basically copied lotus... Back in the day (1980's) . Windows AND MacOS were copied wholesale from Xerox's windowing environment ... If there is one thing we know Microsoft are short on its innovation and imagination. We had to wait until android for a general consumer OS that relies on zero knowledge or aptitude for technology. Linux clearly is not that, but that's okay cos with mobile tech the desktop PC is reverting back to a niche nerd consumer base. Suits me fine... Its less to do with age and more to do with nerdability score.
@@mickelodiansurname9578 Android is based on the Linux Kernel. That's why when you buy any android device, you're not paying for the OS. Unlike when you buy or build a PC. You pay for MS OS.
The majority of people stuck in Excel worksheets are scientists and that creates a hell for me, and apparently recently, for the UK as well because someone didn't take into consideration the built-in limits of spreadsheet rows and columns.
I don't know about Excel specifically like the comments here are talking about but it's worth pointing out Gates and Microsoft were ruthless in the 90s (this is in retrospect, of course I absolutely loved it at the time) and they intentionally broke computing in their quest for a monopoly
I disagree with Stephen Fry here. *insert dramatic three chord music and horrified expression*. A computer is a tool. A very good and popular tool but it is just a tool. Windows may be as aesthetically pleasing as a pile of dog poo on your froont doorstep but it is practical, functional and ergonomic. Mac computers are pretentious art installations with a confusing system (i tried using them for 3 years at university and never got the hang of them). The mice are pathetic, the keyboards are crap (gaps between the keys which are flat not scalloped and rows the same height instead of tiered), vertical disc loading slots for CD's/DVD's.....i could go on but I will disagree with Stehen about mac computers. Windows is flwed (particularly the more modern versions....windows 8 what were they thinkng) but mac computers are overpriced, art installations. Give me windows or better yet Linux.
I agree. Apple is excruciatingly expensive, an not even all that better for the regular working man/woman. Sure, if you're an artist or whatever knock yourself out, but microsoft office works just fine for most situations. And don't get me started on the hell that is safari. I never saw the point of our physics-department at school only wanting to use apple, as they were absolutely shit laptops that would break at the blink of a teenagers eye. xD
I'm a Linux user as well, and I agree, a computer is a tool. Thing is, people who work with tools a lot tend to value them highly. You won't find many longtime car mechanics using wrenches from Harbor Freight, for example. They buy expensive tools like Snap-On, because good tools are worth investing in. Macs work very well for right-brained people because Apple's design sense aligns with those users' design sense. They also work very well for people with more money than time, like a lot of the older people in my family. The great thing about Linux is that it allows me to invest my time rather than money in my tools, and I'm perfectly happy with that. I won't pretend that approach works for everyone, however.
I agree that good hardware is worth investing in, but I will not be ripped off just because there's a picture of a half-eaten fruit on it, or a triple headed snake. And don't get me started on how user-unfriendly I personally find Mac's software. My boyfriend is a musician and in his case Apple ís the way to go. But as a gamer who mostly uses Excel, Word and Chrome/Firefox I will never buy an Apple-product. The Macbooks and Apple-computers I've worked with were slow about everything except starting up, and some didn't even connect with the measuring equipment in the labs. The computers with Windows as operating system worked just fine. All in all I just really miss Windows XP. xD If I had the time and skills to work with Linux, I would. I really admire people that can work with it. But once again, as an avid gamer it would make life rather difficult to have any other operating system than Windows.
Fry is a Linux user. People assuming he's a mac user misses the entire point of what he was saying. He was saying that Linux provides the freedom of customizibility that neither mac nor windows share. At least mac looks nice but Windows is slow and ad ridden right to the start menu at this point.
I'm a software developer, I spend all day working in front of a computer (minus meetings so say 6 hours to be conservative) plus some at home. I want the system to be nice looking as well as functional. But the looks are really important. Just because it's a tool it doesn't mean that it has to be ugly. We know that pretty things makes us happy, so for us working with it it's very important. For my usage windows is neither pretty nor functional. I use linux because my employer doesn't supply us with macs, only windows or linux. But macOS would be prettier and just as functional for me.
I love Stephen but he does seem slightly detached from the real world here. I'm sure he has an accountant, solicitor and probably lawyer who are no doubt very well paid and enjoy their jobs. Also, all popular operating systems have spreadsheet applications, not just Windows.
Most of the people here have missed his point entirely.Talk about the dumbing down of society.!!! He is referring to the ambience of the work place,not the product they produce there.
Excel is a fun place to be. It's a blank canvas where you can create whatever you want, you can introduce colour designs, tables, graphs VBA. Most people do not know how extensive Excel actually is.
There'd still be word documents and spreadsheets if Microsoft had never come along with MS Office. Or does Stephen not remember Lotus 123, WordStar, and Supercalc *Somebody* has to do the number-crunching for businesses.
I think Excel is one of the most under rated apps going. The main reason is that you can do countless calcs on it without costing you a penny until you come to the one that will save or earn you thousands.
It doesn't cost you a penny until you need to update it then it's a maze of cell references and formula that depend on cell references containing formula containing cell references containing formula ad nauseam. Don't even get me started on data and process being kept in the same place/file. I know why people love Excel. Believe me it's no long term solution.
Well since win 10 is utter shite...and 7 runs out in 3 years... That'll be Microsoft out of the OS game for desktops. So you dear reader would want to get used to Linux... You'll need it.
There's been rumours that by 2021/22 MS OS will be free. But I believe the caveat will be, that you end up getting a basic OS and paying for all the extra's. So not really free at all. As to Linux (I'm an MS user, so not a programmer), I tried to use it. And I'm sorry to say, I can't make head or tails of it. I can install it no problem, that's a doddle. But I seem to have a blind spot in my thought process when it comes to things like words they use to describe most processes that they use for such things as binary's. I have to keep looking up what they mean. Where as with windows, i can automatically see a program and I know what an exe is etc. So I have no problems. I can play with the registry and other dos stuff to a certain extent. And I wish some distro of Linux could be similar.
I don't see how any of the things he complained about are Window's fault. That's like blaming a soldering iron for the conditions in the factories in China.
I'm a huge fan of Stephen Fry and I agree with a lot of what he says. But not in this instance I don't. I'm a data analyst by trade and I spend my entire life looking at one spreadsheet or another. They are as good/bad/useful/useless/colourful/bland/etc as however they have been designed. If he doesn't find them pleasing to look at perhaps he's only seen boring ones. But to write off the entire program as boring is generalising. He's an actor and he needs to spend his life learning lines, rehearsing, etc. I can't think of anything I'd less like to do. To each their own.
I live right next to Liechtenstein and I have never heard anything about this. Beyond that I can't find any sites or services one might contact for this transaction or any info about it in german, which seems unlikely for a german speaking country. Sounds like bullshit to me...
Fry is talking rubbish here. Firstly Windows can look great. The customisation, from wallpaper, sounds, colours, positioning of icons on the desktop, or not having any icons at all etc means you can make it look the way you want it. Secondly Excel, or any spreadsheet, is a tool. How is a spreadsheet on Windows different to a spreadsheet on a Mac? And ironically the first spreadsheet, Visicalc, was the first killer application for the Apple computer back in the Apple II days. Without that boring spreadsheet Apple probably wouldn't exist today.
In 2018, this doesn't apply. Apple has seriously dropped the ball in terms of reliability and - more relevant to this video - design. Compare the current Surface and Dell hardware to Apple computers - the Windows 10 models are just as classy looking and a lot cheaper. Apple should stick to making really good phones ... PCs have largely overtook them now for web/graphic and video design.
Fair enough after looking into he does enthusiastically support the Apple Ecosystem. But he also has stated he uses Ubuntu and finds it the "friendliest" It really is all personal preference I suppose. Have a good one.
Howard I. Know Desktop PC sales and laptops have been in free fall for 5 years now. Mobile tech is the consumer markets favorite by a huge margin. I doubt Microsoft will even exist by the middle of the next decade. They certainly managed to piss off the entire software industry with win10. Hence droves of them porting to linux .
Mickelodian Surname For consuming content, I have no doubt. But for MAKING the content to be consumed, desktop and laptop PCs will always be around. Microsoft won’t be too worried by your prediction.
heh that is like saying the catholic church does a lot of good in the world.. It is a way of hiding the facts behind how they became so wealthy in the first place. money from the poor!
So what we go back to lotus 123, or paper & an abacus? Excel is a great tool for getting information performing calculations etc & I suppose word isn’t better than a typewriter & a pot of correction fluid!! & of course I’m sure pages & numbers by Apple are so much better🤪
Alan Davies would make a good Prince Charming of Lichtenstein.
Jimmy Carrs accountant had plenty of imagination in excel.
Thing is though, Word and Excel are tools, perfectly functional tools but nothing more, they aren't supposed to be inspiring in of itself, they are there to put your brilliant idea down somewhere. What Stephen seems to complain about is at it's heart: style. Which in this case is like complaining about a hammer not having a curved handle or a head with a designers name on it.
The first part yes, quite correct but the second rests on a false analogy as Windows' ubiquity and dullness are to design aesthetics as a plain white wall is to Eros. Or as old IT geeks used to say about HP: If HP were selling sushi they would advertise it as: cold dead fish with rice.
So what does he imagine could be done to make Excel a nicer program to work in? A GUI with colors and textures reminiscent of a building interior? A 20% opacity overlay of a tropical beach?
And yet, Excel is the only spreadsheet program that includes a functional flight simulator as an Easter Egg. Slightly less boring than imagined, eh?
You're twenty-years too late.
True story, Stephen Fry is a fan of GNU/Linux.
..and Apple. Which makes him a hypocrite
If they had gone through with selling Liechtenstein, the new flag should have been a blue screen.
national anthem?
this ua-cam.com/video/wO9q4H49cGA/v-deo.html
To be fair he was working with very limited processing and limiting moving objects and colours helps it actually run in the first edition of Windows, otherwise it would have lagged awfully, it's like complaining an Amazonian tree but doesn't have surround sound and a water slide with a heated jacuzzi
Just so you all know, Stephen doesn't even use Mac either. He specifically said that he uses Ubuntu more than once. So...
He does use a Macintosh I believe, he may just be running bootcamp etc
Stephen was one of the first Macintosh owners in 1984.
I recall Lily Tomlin remarking that she could not get excited by a Mr Micro-soft, with a 3 1/4 inch floppy!
3 1/2" or 5 1/4"
He is a fan of GNU/Linux. Look up the video he did promoting GNU.
huh, i would have guessed him a mac ass pirate..
LOL, I see what you did there an extra point for you
Excel is the best thing Microsoft ever made. Fry speaks from the position of an 'artist'; anyone who's trying to do serious work loathes the pretification of a functional system.
nah it's more of the fact he's an old person. when he got into mac it was back when you could code for mac and he and douglas adams liked to play with their macintoshes. That nostalgia kept him buying the product long after it became toy computer garbage.
I agree - mind you I'm an old person as well but I saw through the bs pretty quickly, let the isheep of the world keep lining the pocket of the Apple shareholders, forgive them for they know not what they do
LudvigIndestrucable MS basically copied lotus... Back in the day (1980's) . Windows AND MacOS were copied wholesale from Xerox's windowing environment ... If there is one thing we know Microsoft are short on its innovation and imagination. We had to wait until android for a general consumer OS that relies on zero knowledge or aptitude for technology. Linux clearly is not that, but that's okay cos with mobile tech the desktop PC is reverting back to a niche nerd consumer base. Suits me fine... Its less to do with age and more to do with nerdability score.
@@mickelodiansurname9578 Android is based on the Linux Kernel. That's why when you buy any android device, you're not paying for the OS. Unlike when you buy or build a PC. You pay for MS OS.
The majority of people stuck in Excel worksheets are scientists and that creates a hell for me, and apparently recently, for the UK as well because someone didn't take into consideration the built-in limits of spreadsheet rows and columns.
I don't know about Excel specifically like the comments here are talking about but it's worth pointing out Gates and Microsoft were ruthless in the 90s (this is in retrospect, of course I absolutely loved it at the time) and they intentionally broke computing in their quest for a monopoly
I disagree with Stephen Fry here. *insert dramatic three chord music and horrified expression*.
A computer is a tool. A very good and popular tool but it is just a tool. Windows may be as aesthetically pleasing as a pile of dog poo on your froont doorstep but it is practical, functional and ergonomic. Mac computers are pretentious art installations with a confusing system (i tried using them for 3 years at university and never got the hang of them). The mice are pathetic, the keyboards are crap (gaps between the keys which are flat not scalloped and rows the same height instead of tiered), vertical disc loading slots for CD's/DVD's.....i could go on but I will disagree with Stehen about mac computers. Windows is flwed (particularly the more modern versions....windows 8 what were they thinkng) but mac computers are overpriced, art installations. Give me windows or better yet Linux.
I agree. Apple is excruciatingly expensive, an not even all that better for the regular working man/woman. Sure, if you're an artist or whatever knock yourself out, but microsoft office works just fine for most situations. And don't get me started on the hell that is safari. I never saw the point of our physics-department at school only wanting to use apple, as they were absolutely shit laptops that would break at the blink of a teenagers eye. xD
I'm a Linux user as well, and I agree, a computer is a tool. Thing is, people who work with tools a lot tend to value them highly. You won't find many longtime car mechanics using wrenches from Harbor Freight, for example. They buy expensive tools like Snap-On, because good tools are worth investing in.
Macs work very well for right-brained people because Apple's design sense aligns with those users' design sense. They also work very well for people with more money than time, like a lot of the older people in my family.
The great thing about Linux is that it allows me to invest my time rather than money in my tools, and I'm perfectly happy with that. I won't pretend that approach works for everyone, however.
I agree that good hardware is worth investing in, but I will not be ripped off just because there's a picture of a half-eaten fruit on it, or a triple headed snake. And don't get me started on how user-unfriendly I personally find Mac's software. My boyfriend is a musician and in his case Apple ís the way to go. But as a gamer who mostly uses Excel, Word and Chrome/Firefox I will never buy an Apple-product. The Macbooks and Apple-computers I've worked with were slow about everything except starting up, and some didn't even connect with the measuring equipment in the labs. The computers with Windows as operating system worked just fine.
All in all I just really miss Windows XP. xD If I had the time and skills to work with Linux, I would. I really admire people that can work with it. But once again, as an avid gamer it would make life rather difficult to have any other operating system than Windows.
Fry is a Linux user. People assuming he's a mac user misses the entire point of what he was saying. He was saying that Linux provides the freedom of customizibility that neither mac nor windows share. At least mac looks nice but Windows is slow and ad ridden right to the start menu at this point.
I'm a software developer, I spend all day working in front of a computer (minus meetings so say 6 hours to be conservative) plus some at home. I want the system to be nice looking as well as functional. But the looks are really important. Just because it's a tool it doesn't mean that it has to be ugly. We know that pretty things makes us happy, so for us working with it it's very important.
For my usage windows is neither pretty nor functional. I use linux because my employer doesn't supply us with macs, only windows or linux. But macOS would be prettier and just as functional for me.
I love Stephen but he does seem slightly detached from the real world here. I'm sure he has an accountant, solicitor and probably lawyer who are no doubt very well paid and enjoy their jobs. Also, all popular operating systems have spreadsheet applications, not just Windows.
🎉
Please name me the Mac program that gives you nice decorative spread sheets.
baverdi ispreadsheets?
numbers en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_(spreadsheet)
@@alexanderdavidsonbryan7264 Numbers looks exactly the same as excel :/ How is that decorative?
LibreOffice
Most of the people here have missed his point entirely.Talk about the dumbing down of society.!!! He is referring to the ambience of the work place,not the product they produce there.
Excel is a fun place to be. It's a blank canvas where you can create whatever you want, you can introduce colour designs, tables, graphs VBA. Most people do not know how extensive Excel actually is.
I rather like excel. xD
There'd still be word documents and spreadsheets if Microsoft had never come along with MS Office. Or does Stephen not remember Lotus 123, WordStar, and Supercalc
*Somebody* has to do the number-crunching for businesses.
Or if it's Windows' dismal default colour scheme that's bothering him, change the color scheme.
Do you think Fry uses Linux?
He does. :)
Stephen has obviously never experienced a well made Excel app. When it's well done it is a wonder and a great joy.
I think Excel is one of the most under rated apps going. The main reason is that you can do countless calcs on it without costing you a penny until you come to the one that will save or earn you thousands.
It doesn't cost you a penny until you need to update it then it's a maze of cell references and formula that depend on cell references containing formula containing cell references containing formula ad nauseam. Don't even get me started on data and process being kept in the same place/file.
I know why people love Excel. Believe me it's no long term solution.
@@dsmyify that all depends on how you use it.
Everyone applauds putting down Bill.... and now he's splashing his wealth around he's suddenly lovely. Typing this on my lovely Windows UI.
people who say tht excel is boring and the equivalent to a grey building have never seen a really beautifully made and organized spread sheet.
Well since win 10 is utter shite...and 7 runs out in 3 years... That'll be Microsoft out of the OS game for desktops. So you dear reader would want to get used to Linux... You'll need it.
There's been rumours that by 2021/22 MS OS will be free. But I believe the caveat will be, that you end up getting a basic OS and paying for all the extra's. So not really free at all. As to Linux (I'm an MS user, so not a programmer), I tried to use it. And I'm sorry to say, I can't make head or tails of it. I can install it no problem, that's a doddle. But I seem to have a blind spot in my thought process when it comes to things like words they use to describe most processes that they use for such things as binary's. I have to keep looking up what they mean. Where as with windows, i can automatically see a program and I know what an exe is etc. So I have no problems. I can play with the registry and other dos stuff to a certain extent. And I wish some distro of Linux could be similar.
Obviously doesn't have me!
I figured it'd be about aesthetics.
I don't see how any of the things he complained about are Window's fault. That's like blaming a soldering iron for the conditions in the factories in China.
I'm a huge fan of Stephen Fry and I agree with a lot of what he says. But not in this instance I don't.
I'm a data analyst by trade and I spend my entire life looking at one spreadsheet or another. They are as good/bad/useful/useless/colourful/bland/etc as however they have been designed.
If he doesn't find them pleasing to look at perhaps he's only seen boring ones. But to write off the entire program as boring is generalising.
He's an actor and he needs to spend his life learning lines, rehearsing, etc. I can't think of anything I'd less like to do.
To each their own.
I have a new, unused, in the box, copy of Visicalc, This means I am superior to you Excel people and I fart in your general direction.
I live right next to Liechtenstein and I have never heard anything about this. Beyond that I can't find any sites or services one might contact for this transaction or any info about it in german, which seems unlikely for a german speaking country. Sounds like bullshit to me...
humanLucifer Its probably just the rental cost of the monarchs personal palace.... You don't get to run the country for a day... Lol.
Fry is talking rubbish here. Firstly Windows can look great. The customisation, from wallpaper, sounds, colours, positioning of icons on the desktop, or not having any icons at all etc means you can make it look the way you want it. Secondly Excel, or any spreadsheet, is a tool. How is a spreadsheet on Windows different to a spreadsheet on a Mac? And ironically the first spreadsheet, Visicalc, was the first killer application for the Apple computer back in the Apple II days. Without that boring spreadsheet Apple probably wouldn't exist today.
Flint Ironstag
Fry is a Linux user. Compare the customisation options in the Linux distribution of your choice to Windows and you'll see his point.
Silly rant, but still funny.
In 2018, this doesn't apply. Apple has seriously dropped the ball in terms of reliability and - more relevant to this video - design. Compare the current Surface and Dell hardware to Apple computers - the Windows 10 models are just as classy looking and a lot cheaper. Apple should stick to making really good phones ... PCs have largely overtook them now for web/graphic and video design.
as others have stated he's a fan of Linux not macs.
Madarius He is a Mac fanboy. Always has been.
Fair enough after looking into he does enthusiastically support the Apple Ecosystem. But he also has stated he uses Ubuntu and finds it the "friendliest" It really is all personal preference I suppose. Have a good one.
Howard I. Know Desktop PC sales and laptops have been in free fall for 5 years now. Mobile tech is the consumer markets favorite by a huge margin. I doubt Microsoft will even exist by the middle of the next decade. They certainly managed to piss off the entire software industry with win10. Hence droves of them porting to linux .
Mickelodian Surname For consuming content, I have no doubt. But for MAKING the content to be consumed, desktop and laptop PCs will always be around. Microsoft won’t be too worried by your prediction.
Bill Gates is also one of the most important philanthropists in the world.
We will forgive him that, disgusting and vile though it is.
Turns out every one of those vaccines comes bundled with Internet Explorer. #JokesFromThe1990s
Must be incredibly difficult giving all that money away when you have no conceivable way of spending it all in the first place.
And hes not a total cunt like Steve Jobs was.
heh that is like saying the catholic church does a lot of good in the world.. It is a way of hiding the facts behind how they became so wealthy in the first place. money from the poor!
And steve jobs... creating of sociopathy in the world
Excels fucking great, I love excel
How cheap.
Stephen is the brightest man on this planet!
Jennifer Peterson I think that honour goes to a south Korean gentleman...
So what we go back to lotus 123, or paper & an abacus? Excel is a great tool for getting information performing calculations etc & I suppose word isn’t better than a typewriter & a pot of correction fluid!!
& of course I’m sure pages & numbers by Apple are so much better🤪
Another reason why Stephen Fry is a nob
Says the guy using "nob".
Brilliant - You are the King of Comedy
Sounds like any old fart. What's your alternative? Apple? Ha!
But.... there isn't a better operating system in the world.
paspax
The voice of Richard Stallman bellowing comes sailing over the mountains:
GNU/LINUUUUUUUUUUUUX