Inefficient Language Learning Practices to Avoid or Change
Вставка
- Опубліковано 18 бер 2022
- Memorizing vocabulary lists with flashcards or programs such as Anki, and using dictionaries extensively and intensively, are two common carry-overs from school learning to self-teaching of foreign languages. While these may feel productive, they are relatively ineffective means of learning. After discussing these issues for all language learners, I also discuss the need for those with polyitis to understand the law of increasing temporal input earlier rather than later in their careers.
Time stamps:
For normal language learners and those with polyitis:
01:24 Memorizing vocabulary lists with flashcards or Anki
06:48 Overuse of dictionary in beginning studies
Only for those with Polyitis:
11:20 The law of increasing temporal input
If you might like to participate in my reading and discussion circles for French, German, Spanish, or Latin literature beginning in May of 2022, please fill out the application at www.alexanderarguelles.com/ac...
If you can think of anyone else who might be interested in joining my groups for these languages, or for Great Books in English, or for support for self-study of foreign languages, please pass the above information along to them.
If you are in a position to support my efforts to spread knowledge through these videos, I will gratefully accept any contributions to ko-fi.com/alexanderarguelles
That is a GIANT kitty!
Maybe it ate a flash card set
@@M_SC LMAO
Have you seen him sitting by himself? ua-cam.com/video/vI3eoYg3hXU/v-deo.html
I think that the camera angle makes the cat appear to be gigantic.
🤪🤪🤪
Good points, professor. I’d just like to add that many people using Anki, myself included, don’t use it in the way you describe ie out of context memorization, rather they use a different format. This format of cards used on anki is called the sentence card. The format is generally as follows: you put a sentence in your target language on the front with one word you don’t know, and the definition of that word on the back. The goal when studying is to ensure you understand the sentence and new word in context when anki serves it to you. The idea is to artificially create opportunities for your brain to acquire words through context. It’s a method that enhances extensive reading, and is inspired by Krashen and Nation’s work.
Thanks for clarifying the additional way that the system can be used, Ahmad.
@@ProfASAr Another way is to add a word in your target language and right beneath it in a sentence. What I do is to put the sentence both in the front and back, and hide the sentence by default; I only reveal it if I don't know the word well or I want to see it contextually.
@@ProfASAr I enjoy this method, particularly for Assimil books or highlighted sentences from Kindle books I've read. It not only gives context around unknown words but also the sentence itself because I can typically recall in which section of the story the sentence was from or what the Assimil lesson was about. I still don't think it's perfect but I do think it helps me review Assimil more regularly than I otherwise would. The main issue is making sure it doesn't take up too much time (i.e. I think there's diminishing returns in a longer Anki study session--30 minutes is better spent reading a novel, but a couple of 5 minute sections in your day that would otherwise not be useful for language study are great for knocking out Anki)
That said I'm obviously much less accomplished so perhaps one day I'll totally dispose of Anki. I also like it to keep contact with a language when emphasizing study for another language or life gets in the way and no language study is happening. I don't like the more intensive flashcard methods though
I use Anki as well, also not in the way described in the video. For me, Anki is just SUPPLEMENTATION. What I do is I read a text or listen to a podcast, and when I see or hear a word or phrase that I think it would be cool to know and use, I simply put it in my Anki deck and learn it through spaced repetition. I find this type of learning a lot more efficient than reading whole books or passive listening because it takes less time. Now the crucial part of this method is to make sure that you ACTUALLY USE these words and phrases in your speech (with a tutor) so that they stay in your active vocabulary. I have been able to express myself in my SL a lot better ever since I started using Anki.
Anki can also be super beneficial to those learners who are at such a high level that new vocabulary comes up relatively rarely. I think this is when some intentional study can make a huge difference and get you from C1 to C2 in terms of vocabulary.
Summary:
- not to learn vocabulary by heart without context
- not to overuse the dictionary ("translation method" used before Hans Orberg for Latin e.g.)
- consider that you'll need a lot of time for a language that now only takes you fifteen minutes, when learning more than one simultaneously.
God bless you all.
Thanks for providing this summary.
Summaries are like flash cards: they don't provide the full story.
@@simeonbanner6204 Summaries are helpful none-the-less, especially when reviewing previously watched videos.
Beginning in May of 2022, I will offer virtual options for working with me to improve your skills in reading French, German, Latin, or Spanish literatures, to engage in Great Books discussions, and to provide support for the self-study of foreign languages. If these might interest you, please fill out the application form on my website at alexanderarguelles.com/academy/ If this is not for you, but you know someone whom it might interest, please pass this information on to them.
Love this video and appreciate how long you've been making videos. I started following you when I was 15 and spoke 4 languages (2 fluent, 2 conversational). Now at 31, I speak 11 (4 at a native level, others at varying levels of being able to converse) and I have you to thank as inspiration.
I am very gratified to hear that I have had a positive influence upon your life and learning. Thank you so much for letting me know. I hope I can continue to inspire your and provide you with useful information.
Wow that's impressive!
How do you learn language from scratch and how to overcome the intermediate state?
Thanks~
How do you maintain them all?
@@faridmikiyev7943 I can't really, but it comes back when I spend time talking to people. I used to practice like a monk but now have a busy life taking care of kids, a farm, animals, etc so I just let it go and it does usually come back.
@@danar5885 I like Pimsleur, especially if I have to learn a new alphabet with the language. Speaking with natives willing to correct you is the best thing. It's the only way you can get realtime feedback to notice and learn more.
The main thing I have learnt from your recent series of videos is that if you are a cat and you want to relax, you need a polyglot professor to sit on :)
Absolutely! Merlin says congratulations on being the first to articulate this so succinctly!
Right. I knew there was a reason why I could never motivate myself to learn more French vocabulary lists. I felt guilty for years, thinking I was a fraud, when in fact my brain was telling me that this is a load of labour for nothing. I had also wanted to shun translations, so that I could force myself to read in Russian. However, I read Lenin in Zürich in English, and then I looked up easy phrases in the original Russian. That was enjoyable. So thanks for that method. Looking up every word sounds tedious! I completely agree with needing more time at an advanced level. In my case, I only retain things I see every day. So I have my phone settings in Russian, and I gradually learn new words and phrases. I also keep an organisation journal in Russian (though with English where necessary), which contains words I need anyway (task lists, etc.). Then I copy these into what I call my language journal, which serves as the repetition. Because I need to use these words daily, I don't really have to consciously memorise them. I also use Google to get examples of sentences in context from article headlines. I still need to upgrade my Russian, though! Anyway, this video has saved me a lot of time!
I am very happy to have saved you time - there is precious little of it - so please use it to read some Russian literature with me in mind!
Thank you for all of your videos. They’ve been extremely useful and inspiring!
You are so welcome!
I enjoyed the video and I’m still going to use Anki 😂. I legitimately enjoy flash cards so even if they’re inefficient it’s not time wasted. I saw a video on UA-cam of an Anki addict studying Japanese for almost five years using apps and then UA-cam. He’s quite conversational at this point too and has videos to show it (with mistakes but small ones that don’t inhibit communication) Finally he got his first Japanese book hard copy. He read the book and made a video about it on his channel. I get the impression he would have stopped partway through if not for his intention to make a video. His goal after five years and 20k Anki cards (I can only dream of having the recall ability to stay on top of a 20k deck)was to stop using Anki. And so he read the book without entering any vocabulary into Anki. At the end he felt he hadn’t retained any of the 1000 words (roughly) that he had to lookup.
Which makes one wonder just how effective is reading compared to Anki.
Essentially my thought is that reading is fantastic for words that repeat enough. But when you start wanting to learn words that don’t repeat enough then reading alone isn’t going to be so efficient. Of course this is pure speculation. The learning process is so complex and it’s hard to really measure.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience on this.
Anki has been fantastic for me. I learned the top 5000 words of French then was able to watch TV with subtitles. I think it serves a purpose for people like me who have a few mins here and there and Anki is really convenient on the phone. I learned 1000s of words on small breaks at work. Recently started the same with Spanish and from nothing could understand a good portion of Spanish.
Thanks for sharing how flashcards can be used in spare moments on the phone, etc.
Very good point about being aware of the learning curve when setting out to learn multiple languages. Though my personal experience (so far) has been slightly different. Having gone through a plethora of Slavic and Germanic languages, I do not feel that sad about not being able to use them, because I can still read in basically all of them, and having access to written information was very much my goal when I set out to learn those languages. On the other hand, in regards to Hungarian, which I had to abandon, I do feel sad that my (supposedly) best attempts at acquiring it and learning it just like I learned Japanese ended up in frustration more than anything else, and I wish things had gone differently. But who knows, I might come back to it one day, under different circumstances, and it might work out better. And then my experience barely spans 5 years, which is no match for your experience, so there's lots left for me to discover!
And I would like to join in on my fellow colleagues in providing a somewhat different outlook on flashcards: last Fall I caught wind of Readlang and have been using it to get a better grip on scientific vocabulary in Japanese, and it seems to have really helped. This browser extension allows you to look up words in a text on the go and it automatically creates a flashcard for it on the website, and you can then modify it, and when you revise the cards you get the sentences where you found that word, and you need to recall that specific word. This is really great because you do not divorce the word from the context, you are dealing with vocabulary that is specialised and interesting to you, and you get new and specific cards with the website doing the heavy lifting that goes into creating them, so I think it's positively wonderful and very useful, but I do believe that it's best left until one is advanced enough to get the gist of a text, with the word lookup serving to assist with those few words that are not clear OR when one wishes to acquire specialised vocabulary, like I'm doing.
Naturally, I get the bulk of my vocabulary from reading bilingual texts, which I learned from you, Professor.
Thanks, as always, for the substantive comments, Yan.
@@nextstepelt5170 I agree with you 100%, Matthew, flash cards do help in moderation, but they can't replace actual learning/practice!
Hello, Alex!
I’m still really enjoying all the content you’ve been putting out over the recent weeks and months! Your advice is thorough and authoritative as always!
I’d also like to add that it seems you’re having more fun producing these videos as well? At least, that’s the impression I’ve been getting.
Thank you for all your help and guidance. Hope you’ve been well!
Thank you kindly.
Hi. I didn't realize you had an active youtube channel, but I found out about your shadowing method for Assimil a few years ago and I love it so thank you! I can relate to trying to learn too many things. I'm constantly torn between devoting what little time I have nurturing languages I already know and use and falling in love with an ever expanding list of new languages that I want to learn next. I've been good about focusing in the past few years but the "struggle" never ends.
Welcome to the channel, which I reactivated about 6 months ago. I know that I have been on and off over the years, but I hope to have removed a major reason for that now, such that I will be "on" form now on.
Hearing Alex call himself an original gangster made my day 🤣
Glad I could make you happy!
So funny that the kitty’s expression at the start of the video is exactly like a teacher saying “You can do better! Try harder!”
In that case, watch this: ua-cam.com/video/vI3eoYg3hXU/v-deo.html
I agree that your point about using flashcards to study individual words is a waste of time. I don't know if it was your intention to include all digital flashcard activities, but I thought I'd mention again that Anki also allows a lot more flexibility with including example sentences, audio, images and really any format you can think of that make it do a lot more than just memorizing word lists (though some people do just use it for word lists and its just as bad as on paper). There are also many other features that are tricky to describe without making a much longer comment.
I'm not trying to "convince" you, since there are trade-offs to learning how to use it properly, and I don't think its necessary for everyone. But I've been using a lot of your methods for years and I've tried with and without digital flashcards and for me they've been extremely helpful in certain circumstances. Its hard to explain how different they can be if you're not using them yourself, so I'm not looking to get you to "sign off" on them, but when giving advice about digital flashcards specifically, I think its good to be aware that they aren't at all like traditional flashcards.
Hopefully this doesn't come off as argumentative as I've found a lot of your advice helpful in language learning over the years. I just worry some people will get the wrong impression about Anki if they haven't used it yet, that it can be used a lot differently from memorizing vocabulary lists, so I wanted to put another perspective out there.
Thanks for the alternate take on their alternate use, Ryan.
The sentence mining approach was one that was touched upon in the final discussion circle video ("Language in Context") and is personally how I prefer to use it. As I think I mentioned in that video, there is the risk that these spaced repetition tools can start to sap more and more of your study time if you don't keep the daily reviews under control, or if you add too many items too regularly. So it is very much to be regarded as a master/servant relationship. If used wisely and with the understanding that they are _supplementary_ to one's studies, spaced repetition tools like Anki can very successfully and efficiently alleviate much of the burden of reviewing and relearning.
@@Christopher_Stead Yeah, this is why I don’t insist everyone should use it, because there is an initial time investment for learning how to best set it up, fit it in your schedule and mine card efficiently. For some circumstances it’s not necessary and people can get by in other ways, without the fuss.
It’s also why it’s tricky to gauge in terms of efficiency because a lot is determined by how it’s used in combination with your other resources. But Anki has definitely been a lifesaver for me in some cases. And as more people make apps that can make it easier to create high quality cards in less time, it will only get more useful for more people.
Thank you . I will change my ways. Wonderful cat! Loved to see her/him.
I am glad the video was helpful for your studies. As for Merlin, have you seen him in his feature short? ua-cam.com/video/vI3eoYg3hXU/v-deo.html
Thank you for sharing! I actually use anki to memorize real sentences. I take 10 words a day from the spoken frequency list and make 3 sentences as close to what I would actually say in that language. I also memorize any common collocations. I appreciate reading as well but by itself, it leaves too much gaps in my learning. The frequency list based real life sentences ensure i don't miss vocabulary just because I mostly listen to psychology podcast or what not. But that's just me
Thanks for sharing! It is good to hear the many different ways that people use this, all of which are more useful than memorizing simple word lists.
Thank you for posting another helpful video.
I also compliment you for inspiring your viewers to post so many insightful comments.
I remember having teachers in foreign language classes who would give us weekly vocabulary lists and vocabulary quizzes. I would memorize the vocabulary for the quiz and forget it soon after the quiz. I think a drawback of taking foreign language classes in high school or college is that much of what is taught is geared toward teaching what can be tested easily. It would be interesting to see whether people learn languages better in classes in which they are not graded.
I often write words and their meanings down if I keep seeing or hearing the word used. Also, if I know the meaning of a word, I might write that word down with the meaning, if I see a less common meaning used in the context of what I am reading. Sometimes, I will pick out a few of the words that I recently wrote down and try to spend the rest of the day thinking occasionally about those words and their meaning. For example (a real example), I may try to spend the rest of the day thinking to myself from time to time that "waterstof" means "hydrogen", "stikstof" means "nitrogen", and "zuurstof" means "oxygen". (I don't mean constantly. I mean thinking about it for about minute and then trying to think about it briefly every hour or two for the rest of the day.)
Do you ever find, after studying a language for a long time, that there are sometimes sentences in which you know the meaning of every word, but cannot tell what the sentence means? I often have that problem. Sometimes, it is because the sentence is using a less common meaning of a word (maybe translation number 7 in a dictionary). Sometimes it is because the sentence has an idiom or has a slang meaning of a word. Often, it is a word order problem. For example, I may have thought that an adjective or a prepositional phrase or a subordinate clause goes with the direct object when it actually goes with the subject. Sometimes I have typed a sentence that I couldn't make sense of into Google translate and I have gotten a totally non-literal translation that somehow worked within the context of what I was reading.
(I hope I am not double posting. When I had almost finished typing, I hit the wrong key on the keyboard and what I had written disappeared.)
Thank you for your substantive post. Yes, there are times when you look at a sentence, realize you know every word, but still don't get it.
The fact that the viewers on this channel post so many good comments makes the difficult task of producing videos worthwhile. Time and again I have been most happily pleased at how the "regulars" will step up to help each other, and anyone else who asks, with their knowledge and experience. It is a great community!
Thanks again for your wise advice regarding learning a language. Brief update on my learning Spanish. It has been a few months and I'm enjoying my daily language sessions, so much so I eagerly immerse myself in Spanish several times a day, each session about 30 minutes. For me, the key is enjoying the process.
Enjoying the process is indeed the key! Good for you!
Thanks for the video.
You are welcome!
Learning German here. Started on the free German textbooks from the Foreign Service Institute and an old set of German textbooks first published in 1949. The FSI had a lot of drills so you could really drill on tricky bits such as the subjunctive. Then having learned about comprehensible input here on YT, I decided to order some Asterix comics in German. Since I had already read the English editions, I could make some sense of the Geman edition. I do however look up any unfamiliar words and write them onto a Word document as a glossary. Slow going but I get a lot of exposure to repeated phrases and dialogue and you learn some useful German words not typically found in short stories that are written for language learners. Also going through a German edition of Bill Bryson's book Notes from a Small Island along with the English edition. I've found this to be another vocabulary bomb, tons of words that are useful to know.
Thanks for sharing your method - a nice mix of tried and true plus authentic materials!
Wow that a cute big kitty!!
Nice to watch u teacher Alex...thanks for all your mind-blowing tips
Cheers guys from Lake Titicaca Bolivia
You are very welcome for the appreciation. Now for more of the cat, go here: ua-cam.com/video/vI3eoYg3hXU/v-deo.html
Excellent points, professor. I find that dedicating time to a language in order to get it to an upper intermediate level is the prerequisite for starting another language in the same language family. Of course my goal is fluency and then a slow coast towards proficiency over a longer period of time. If you have the time, I find you can juggle languages in different families simultaneously - I’m more of a cascading polyitis kind of patient, getting to upper intermediate in my target language before starting another regardless of family. In this way, you’re at a point where the language is “in you”, you won’t forget it regardless of time and the aforementioned slow coast is full of highly enjoyable activities that you can do in your leisure.
I admire your very mature attitude toward the long-term aspects of language learning!
thank you alexander
You are welcome.
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
"I'm a UA-cam OG, ... I'm an original gangster"
I like the calmness and swag with which the professor says it 😂
Thank you!
Haven't watched the video yet, but I am expecting him to absolutely trash all my language learning practices lol
Perhaps not....
You're inspirational!
Thank you! I do aspire to inspire to get people to learn as much as they can, as well as they can!
Thank you so much for this videos and your other videos. I will be taking your suggestions to heart as I learn Spanish at age 74 (I'm the usual monolingual American who studied Spanish back in high school). My goal: read the novels of my favorite Latin American authors like Julio Cortázar and Leonardo Padura in the original. As you point out, devoting a few 30 minute sessions a day to Spanish, this could take a number of years. But, s you note, patience and taking pleasure in the process is key. I'll write you again in September and give you a brief update on my progress. Thanks again.
Very good to hear. The simple truth of the matter, versus the nearly universal desire to learn a language "fast," is that it is a slow, long-term process.
Wise words!
Thank you kindly.
I've used Anki in the past to learn words from a show i was watching. I'd watch it a few sentences at a time and enter the words i didn't know. Then study them later. It put words in context and i related those words to the story. I felt it was productive.
Thanks for sharing.
Your videos are just like a beautiful dream to me, cats and languages 😂💞
You are so kind!
That cat is awesome!
Watch this: ua-cam.com/video/vI3eoYg3hXU/v-deo.html
I tell myself 'It's not the horse but the rider'. So I use Anki to flashcard not only words but phrases and whole sentences too; this way I get the benefits of context and space repetition at once. It has been helpful to me. Thanks for your tips.
You are very welcome!
I feel very lucky to have received your thoughtful advice. It really helped with clarifying my perspective on recent events. I am ever so grateful for your support in this matter.
I am very glad it was helpful!
Prof your advice is always sound and very very welcome.
You look like a bond villain
Having a cat on his lap really helps making the look more credible. 😆
I have noticed that and find it hard to imagine doing one without him now...
@@ProfASAr
I think it suits the tone, please don't ever get rid of the cat.
When a professor with a cat on his lap speaks, I listen
@@nicolo9093 Unfortunately cats do not live as long as we do, but we are united till death do us part.
That's a great example, about having the time/being paid to learn a language, to make your point.
Thank you for appreciating this!
I used a German Vis-Ed 1,000 card vocabulary box like the Chinese one you showed. It was helpful for learning German at school. I am also a bit of a dictionary nut. I tend to acquire huge passive vocabularies but active use is another matter.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Professor, Appreciate your continued contributions to the language learning community. I thoroughly enjoyed the reflective portion of this video on your language learning journey. Specifically, what is truly takes to get a language to a higher level and the opportunity cost of pursuing so many.
My question is in hindsight what 6/12 languages would you have dedicated the time to get to the highest level in additions to Arabic and not counting the dead languages? I’m guessing Spanish, German, Italian, French, Russian, Arabic.
I studied/dabbles in 18 languages over the last 30 years but only managed to get 4 to a high level and 2 to an intermediate level. I abandon the others because I have a career/family/other hobbies that compete for the available time.
Your list of 6/12 languages will give me a data point that will greatly assist some personal research.
Thank you for your substantive comment. I would rather answer this on the Q&A page of my website where it can be referenced and searched for by others with similar queries. Please flesh your letter out further and submit it there and I will be happy to provide a reasoned list.
Vielen Dank Hr. Prof. Arguelles für Ihre wertvollen Hinweise!
In die Lernkurvenfalle tappe ich auch immer wieder gern, denn nichts ist so schön, wie die ersten Gehversuche in eine neue Sprache hinein zu unternehmen. Neue Ausdrucksformen und bizarre Phoneme zu bewältigen, aber eben auch schon Bekanntes im sonst völlig Unbekannten zu entdecken, macht den unwiderstehlichen Reiz aus.
Sprachen treten in der Regel nicht isoliert auf, gruppieren sich in Sprachfamilien oder auch Sprachbünden, lassen sich auf gemeinsame Altsprachen zurückführen. Das kann als eine Art Lern-Booster genutzt werden, wenn man denn unbedingt mehrere Sprachen gleichzeitig erobern möchte. Dennoch bildet jede menschliche Sprache ein vollständiges Kommunikationssystem, dem man mit gebührendem Respekt gegenübertreten sollte, d.h. man muß eben die erforderliche Lernzeit einbringen. Es gibt keine "primitiven Sprachen".
Mich würde sehr interessieren, welche Methode Sie empfehlen, um chinesische oder japanische Schriftzeichen zu lernen. Ich memoriere sie eher systematisch wie Vokabeln, weiß aber wohl, daß sich Chinesen und Japaner Schriftzeichen eher im Wortkontext aneignen. Ihnen sind daher oftmals die Bedeutungen und Herkunft individueller Schriftzeichen völlig unbekannt.
Leider habe ich jüngst Keilschriftzeichen für mich als neues Studienobjekt entdeckt, die erstaunliche Parallelen zum Japanischen aufweisen, ..., eine neue Lernkurvenfalle ;-)
Um Schriftzeichen zu erlernen, habe ich immer festgestellt, dass das Beste ist, sie immer wieder hinzuschreiben, vielleicht zehn mal alleine, aber dann auch in Verbindung, z.B., in dem man einen Text wie Konfuzius durch Scriptorium koppiert. Es ist auch wirksam, eine Gedankenkettegeschichte zu erfinden um sie der Reihenfolge nach durchzugehen.
Gedankenkettengeschichte soll heißen, sich die Radikale eines Schriftzeichens mittels einer Geschichte zu merken? Ja, das nutze ich auch bei manchen Schriftzeichen, die sich dazu anbieten. Statt die Schriftzeichen zu schreiben, was doch auch recht zeitaufwendig ist, versuche ich sie mental zu visualisieren. Ich habe einige Zeit benötigt, um mir diese Fähigkeit anzueignen. Es nervt allerdings, daß mir trotzdem sogar einfache Schriftzeichen beim Schreiben plötzlich einfach nicht mehr einfallen, obgleich ich sie vorher schon 1000mal gelesen und geübt habe. Ein schwacher Trost, daß es den Chinesen oftmals genauso ergeht: "糟糕，我对这个汉子突然失忆了!"
@@akiakdize87 Ja, genau das meine ich mit Gedankenkettengeschichte.
If you imagine your brain to be a field of grass then it is logical to take a multisensory approach to learning. I always find it helpful to learn the swear words first in any language that I wish to pursue. 😊
Professor,
Thank you very much for the candid insights. As the third point you raised was one of the initial reasons I reached out to contact you, if I may, I’d like to clarify some related questions. Feel free to disregard any you don’t have time to answer at length at this moment, and please don’t forget my offer about paying for substantial written replies to these types of inquiries.
In the recent interview you did with Richard Simcott, you also mentioned that two of the biggest regrets you have were not “preceding more systematically” and “if you’d done other languages before [some others]”. Might you please elaborate on these points?
Secondly, regarding the frequency of maintenance for languages which you have already learned to an advanced level, I recall from the lecture you gave on reading literature in a foreign language that for maintenance you scheduled slots for a given language family instead of individual languages. That is to say, for the Romance languages you would read one novel in Spanish and then a novel in French and then a novel in Italian and so on and so on until you looped back to the beginning of the cycle. With the hindsight of a few more years, how has this turned out? Logically, due to the amount of lexical overlap between related languages, it seems as though this method of maintenance ought to keep at least your receptive skills in those respective languages at a very high-level. If it has turned out well, I plan to adopt this maintenance format wholesale, as I cannot think of a more efficient way to schedule maintenance.
Finally, when it comes to rate of deterioration in ability and time needed to recover that ability, do you notice a significant difference between the individual language skills of reading, listening, writing, and speaking? My own anecdotal observations seem to largely coincide with those of Gunnemark, who remarks that reading is the skill slowest to deteriorate, while speaking is the fastest. As regards the other two, it seems to me that listening deteriorates slightly more slowly than writing. Coupled with the fact that attaining high receptive skills normally precedes high productive skills, for most languages, I believe people with an interest in Polyliteracy could be content with being able to read and/or listen at an advanced level, unless one has a specific desire to express oneself eloquently in writing or speech.
Chase
Hello Chase - these are indeed substantial and should go on the Q&A page of the new website (really and truly just over the event horizon), so please submit them there are I will answer them, if not for posterity, at least where others can find them more easily and benefit from the answers.
@@ProfASAr Will do.
The "learn words from context" I think might work better for me, as while watching this I was thinking over how I listened to a Duolingo story earlier, and there was a word I had seen before that I still wasn't completely sure on despite studying a ton, and now I thought back on it and am like "omg that's easy to remember, because it was connected to the rest of the sentence in the story like this!"
That isn't to say that studying vocabulary though isn't important, because it is, especially for people with horrible memory like me. But I definitely think maybe I should be sentence mining more for vocab and studying from the sentence instead of from individual words, so I can get the context to make words easier to remember.
Sentences are better than isolated words, and connected sentences (as in stories) are best.
Anki is great and I get a lot out of it, but I always hesitate to recommend it to others for language learning. Not only do you have to make the right kinds of cards (sentence cards “mined” directly from previously read or watched material, often using specialized software), but you have to have just the right settings so you don’t get inundated with too many reviews. Also, as with many useful tools, some people focus too much on Anki itself. I feel like I’m wasting my time if I spend twenty minutes a day on Anki, but there are some people out there doing an hour or more. For most people, I’d just recommend reading and re-reading graded readers.
Thank you, Tom, for your detailed comment, which underlines the fact that Anki, to be used as more than simple flashcards, needs to be "set up," and that that set up process holds the danger of becoming an object in itself, so that people spend great amounts of time with this, time that could be better spent, as you note, reading and rereading graded readers, for example.
I have watched a few of ur vids now, and it seems to me that a cat on the lap is a prerequisite to language learning!
Indeed he is!
"Sorry big friendly dog! I'm a cat person!"
It's true!
*Thank you for another interesting presentation, Dr. Arguelles. However, in my case, I have lived and worked in Japan for a long time, and have found the paper-flashcards to be extremely helpful in increasing both my passive and active vocabulary. The reason that it is different for me is that I live "24/7" in an environment where this vocabulary is used, and therefore have plenty of opportunities to put them to use on a daily basis.*
Thank you for sharing this to highlight that different things work well under different circumstances, and for different people. Living surrounded by a language 24/7 might well change the nature of the game, and since this works well for you there, wonderful, blessings to you and it! Since you bring it up, though, I do have to wonder aloud - based on my experience, as I adumbrated in my previous video, immersion provide the optimal environment for natural growth, so I cannot fathom the need to use vocabulary flashcards there. Targeted vocabulary preparation, yes (today I'm going to the bank to change money, what will I need to say...).... so is that what you mean?
@@ProfASAr The flashcards that I have been using have been more for the kanji than for the vocabulary itself. I guess you could call me a "visually-oriented learner." As you know, Japanese and Chinese are the only "major languages" that use ideographs, instead of some kind of alphabet or syllabic alphabet. Once I learn a Chinese character in all of its possible readings, it becomes easier for me to transfer the visual to actual speaking and listening comprehension. (I hope that I didn't misunderstand your point.)
@@519djw6 Ah, if it is more for Hanja than vocabulary itself, then that is more understandable. I personally found writing them out to be the most helpful thing in learning them, so I hope you are doing plenty of that as well. Still, now I can well imagine doing paper flashcards for this during a crowded train commute or something similar.
Thank you very much for another great video! I am really hesitant to pick up new languages, because I always think that there is just so much time...
Now to my question: After we reached a certain level in a language like about B2 and have also spoken it for 50-100 hours and then just set them aside and not use them again for months or even years, we won't lose too much of it right? Of course it will be rusty, but can be reactivated. At a level like A2 for example we would lose way more, because it's not as deeply ingrained in your brain.
Thank you for the great question. I think that whether you lose a language that you have learned fairly well if you do not use it for some time, or whether it just gets dusty/rusty, depends on a number of factors. Obviously, the length of time is important, but I think it also just depends on the individual, and also very much upon how you learned the language. For what it is worth, I personally have found that languages I have taught myself get dusty/rusty rather than fade away.
I keep up with my languages I am learning by habit rather than by necessity.👊💕💥
I couldn't agree more on flashcards. I feel that ever since I've stopped using them, I've had larger vocabulary gains through just reading. But I will say that with regards to excessive dictionary look-ups, I do think that they are useful when your intention is to reread the text several times. I do this with Maupassant's short stories in French (because a lot of the time a translation isn't available) and I read it over and over. But I do think that you have mentioned this strategy some time in the past. And with regard to what you call the law of increasing temporal input, how many languages do you think is too much if one wishes to take them to a very advanced level?
I wish I had a better answer to your last question, but I am still working that through in my own life. How many can be taken to a very advanced level depends, of course, upon what one means by that, first and foremost, and also most emphatically upon how closely related the languages are.
Regarding the last point, how do you manage to balance the study of Korean with all the other languages you went at, given the immense challenge that Korean represents on its own? Of course you were in-country, which helped, but at what point in your study of it did you allow yourself to begin indulging in the likes of Russian, Arabic etc.? Thanks as always for the content!
The law of temporal increase slows down after a point - if not, if you kept doubling time needed to get to the next level, then in your 8th year you would need 32 hours a day to keep making progress! Long before that, you tend to reach a point where you feel that you are "good enough for now," particularly if you are actively living the language, like I was back in Korea.
Maybe we can get too screwed up by the idea of "being able to speak" as such. Getting all mystical I remember a zen teacher who was saying something like there's another, deeper form of communication beyond words. Strangely I've found being abroad that your intuition tends to compensate, something else or other faculty kicks in when you don't speak the language. Look how we switch off in a dream in our own language. We don't really listen to people, fully engage.
Hello professor. Thanks for another amazing video. Just a random question. What are your thoughts on LingQ application developed by Steve Kaufmann and his son? I am using it every single day to acquire more words, known, familiar or unknown and to do reading and listening, sometimes at the same time sometimes only one or the other. Thank you so much!
You hear his thoughts about LingQ here: ua-cam.com/video/sG6mZDYL9P8/v-deo.html
Thanks for providing that, Chris, I did not recall where I had spoken of it. Gogo, I do not have an update on what I said way back then.
I love your cat.
Thank you! Have you seen this? ua-cam.com/video/vI3eoYg3hXU/v-deo.html
i don't know anything about this cat but I would murder for it
Go here if you want to enjoy him head on: ua-cam.com/video/vI3eoYg3hXU/v-deo.html
6:33 most people who use anki do it with sentence cards, I think, not with word cards. If I do flash cards, they're ALWAYS sentences. I rely heavily on glossika right now. I don't have the time or motivation to add a language, so I just flip from German, Spanish, French, Portugese, just trying to keep them fresh and reviewed.
Thanks for commenting on how to use this program.
Dear professor, what do you think about learning vocabulary starting by the most frequent words (without context, indeed) using at the same time some readers/chrestomaties (vocabulary in context) ?
I haven't thought about it. When people talk about learning vocabulary, I always wonder how they got to the point where they feel "my structural knowledge is complete, but I just don't know enough words." To me, it is just not a separate process.
There are precious few instances where anki can be a useful aid - language learning is usually not among those based on my experience. I say this as someone who has dumped perhaps thousands of hours of actual-usage hours into the program.
However, anki is a very useful daily supplement for maintaining something relatively fixed and finite like chinese character knowledge (if you are using something like Heisig RTJ/RTH) - but I don't count that as 'learning the language' per se.
I have found things like the Immerse with Migaku add-on (basically an anki plugin for automated creation of content from media) to be very interesting and promising developments as of recent. They really address some of the big issues with flashcards (context, context, context) by making comprehensive cards directly from content you are engaged with (audio, video, text) and may actually be the next big thing in modern language learning. I used it for Russian and can say it positively increased my vocabulary acquisition far beyond what I had anticipated.
However, I still think the absolute best way I have personally found is similar to some of the methodologies the Professor has recommended in the past: reading and listening to a text of interest until you can list/read it fluently. Doing this for a series of books (Sherlock Holmes specifically) was really a breakthrough in my Chinese plateau.
reading and listening to a text fluently will holistically develop your language faculties and vocabulary knowledge - you will actually develop real intuition in the language via narrative and context and have a real native speaker voice living inside of you that you will always be able to refer to. A flashcard is like exercising a single muscle fiber in a finger versus reading and listening which develops the whole 'language body'
Thank you, Trayamolesh, as always, for your substantive comments that make reading through these sections useful.
Anki is great for learning phrases and sentences
Im here for the big cute cat 😂💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜
He's got his own feature: ua-cam.com/video/vI3eoYg3hXU/v-deo.html
That cat has some intense eyes! 😆
Have you seen him in his own feature? ua-cam.com/video/vI3eoYg3hXU/v-deo.html
Nice video. So what advice would you have for choosing the languages that you want to pursue? How did you decide to dedicate time to Arabic over Turkish or Japanese? Was it just a subjective affection?
I have almost all but reduced vocabulary from my study routine completely, but I do about five minutes a day of some kind of vocabulary activities since I find myself encountering so many new words in Korea daily. That said, a decade ago when I was studying Japanese, I would spend double or triple this time on vocabulary. Some of my flashcard study now is quite 'passive,' like when I am riding a bus or waiting in line.
Thank you, Paul. Subjectivity, or rather affinity, can play a role in the decision, but no, in my case it was much more intellectual. I decided that I wanted to have a least one major language from each major civilization. I was already anchored in Korean, so Chinese and Japanese had to go; Arabic wins out over Turkish for me, and I could not hang on to the likes of Swahili if I wanted to do Sanskrit, etc., etc. I could see someone going the opposite direction and deciding to become, e.g., an East Asian specialist, therefore keeping Japanese and Chinese, and sacrificing Arabic and Sanskrit to do that.
@@ProfASAr Thanks Professor. This is a very logical and systematic way to go about it, even if it is somewhat driven by subjectivity/affinity. I think your curriculums of how to learn languages logically and systematically will be of great interests to students interested in these. I posted a question a few months back about systematically approaching the Turkic language family and got some interesting replies. How to approach languages might actually be an interesting subfield of polyliteracy itself.
@@paulcal3500 Hello Paul, "systematic approaches" to language families were some of my personal favorite question and responses on the old HTLAL forum, so many of these have been migrated to my new Q&A page, and I hope more will come in to remain as references for others.
@@ProfASAr Excellent. I look forward to reading these. Such approaches are ideal to aspiring polyglots and the only thing better might be to actually supplement these approaches with actual suggested study materials. If polyliteracy were to evolve into a subfield of its own, this would be a fascinating area of study!
Thank you professor. Great as always. As some one already has commented. If you have one hour per day to study one language. How would you spend it. Loved your 15 minute guide to asimil. But what might one do for a extra 45 mins. Really would be great to have your views
Thank you for reiterating this call. When I see repeated requests for certain videos, I do tend to make them!
I like the concept and the rationale behind Anki. I have tried to like it, but it simply does not work for me. A simple notebook with vocabulary arranged in columns is what works best for me. Perhaps it is not the most efficient way of remembering those words that ones always forget, but it is the method with which I procastinate less.
As a learner of Japanese, I try not to make the same mistakes I did in English. I realised that improving the communication in my native language also improves the communication in my target language. As a native speaker who have gone all the way through in the education ladder, I always was confident that all problems lied in the side of the target language. I was wrong.
In trying to write plainly, in using less ambitious vocabulary and structures, in paying more attention to the articulation of my thoughts in my native language, my style in the target language improved accordingly. There still is room of improvement in Spanish, my native language, and English. Fortunately both languages are alike, not so in Japanese. I have lost no hope one day my level of Japanese be such that I can focus on style as now I do in English.
If you set a goal and keep it clearly in mind, making small, measurable steps towards it, you will get there. Your English style is quite nice, especially given that it is not your native tongue.
@@ProfASAr Thank you very much. I still often make silly mistakes like in "As a native speaker who have gone".I stumble over them time and time again. Those mistakes are badly ingrained perhaps because I did not study the language well from the beginning.
what about singing at the same time you read a short article??
i suspect that singing makes it more memorable and fun for the brain to remember
or imagining ridiculous situations in your brain and voices as you read
Of course singing is the best we all learn our first language with nursery rhymes. You just have to be the type of adult that still likes to sing. And have the privacy to do it.
As the first responder said, for those who like to sing...
Thank you Alexender for your warnings and advice. Unfortunately I can't always follow you.
This time I didn't understand what you mean in last point, point three...:(
Could you tell me what you meant in point 3...?
Thanks very much !
Michael
Hello Michael. I meant that the more you advance in a language, the more time it takes to continue to advance. If you want to become a polyglot, you should keep that in mind when you begin your serious studies, otherwise you can spread yourself too thin and you will be faced with the painful need to cut back on languages because you cannot carry everything you begin with to a higher level.
@@ProfASAr Oh...! Thank you Alexander for your message!
Your last thought is so obvious that I didn't notice it...:)
I was afraid I was missing something important...
Have a good week !
I have been dealing for some time with how to avoid infantilism, stupidity, in language learning... Advanced content takes time..., but it's only one thing that matters, Do you have any advice for ambitious students...?:)
@@michelgolabaigne595 I like your last point and will think about how to answer it in a video.
@@ProfASAr Oh.., ! Thank you very much !
Flash cards/apps method is tricky: the context IS the flash cards/apps themselves: I noticed a couple of times that I was able to recognise/reproduce the foreign word easily while using the app but I couldn't do that outside 'the sandbox of the app', in a natural language situation. And I rarely put just one word on a card, rather a phrase or a word combination.
Thank you for the detailed comment about how you do this.
@@ProfASAr thanks for your reply but the the gist of my comment was "the tricky part". How I do it is irrelevant.
Oh Ohhhh the cat 😄😄😄😳😆😆😆 I love catssss.
Enjoy him in his full feature: ua-cam.com/video/vI3eoYg3hXU/v-deo.html
I have a few questions:
1st) Is that cat hypnotized?
2nd) What is the cat's involvement in this topic?
3rd) The Vocabularies 06:30 (from my experience) are for one useful purpose, and that is to see one in a sentence and say to yourself "I have seen that somewhere, what was it wat was it" which helps you to remember.
1) No.
2) He's the brains behind the whole endeavor.
Sorry for commenting again, but after reflecting on the video some more, I'd like some clarification on the law of increasing temporal input. With it do you mean to say that one will not make any progress without putting in more and more time?
Yes, that's about it. The more you advance, the more you need to apply yourself to advance even more. For example, to become proficient at reading literature, you need to spend several hours a day reading novels in your target language. Thankfully by that point, that effort is inherently rewarding, pleasurable, and interesting in and of itself.
¡Borges! Hey Alex, hay un verso en ese cuento que dice "oh tiempo tus pirámides" (me parece hermoso). ¿Lo leíste? Te mando un saludo y mi gran estimación a tu trabajo.
PD: About that verse, it would be common to read a construction like "Oh pirámides, sus tiempos", but Georgie (Borges) reverses it, so to speak.
¡Sí, creo que sí, sí! ¡Gracias!
Hello I'm sure that people would like to hear your opinion about learning many languages at the same time and how you think it should be done ! Thank you
Many have said this: coming soon!
As far as I am concerned, it should not be done, even if the two languages are in the same language family. I am going to learn Latin in 2024. Right now I'm learning Portuguese & Swahili. I need at least 3 years before I start a new language. That is just my opinion.👊💕💥
I just get distracted by the cat every 5 seconds 😂
You need a cat of your own, then.
I think that all of these mistakes are really the same thing. The core problem is that in language learning we fall into the trap of turning this into a 3-step learning... foreign word -> known word --> concept. In other words, instead of thinking in the target language from the beginning, we are translating...thats the error. For instance: 脚 ==> "foot" ==> that thing at the bottom of our leg that we walk on.
Yes, thinking directly rather than translating is a good goal.
Last part is so unfortunately true. I have 5 hours/day on 4 days/wk and less on the other 3 days.
I regularly draw up all these plans for doing 10+ languages in this time allotment but yeah - at some point it's going to be too much. It's truly a shame to have to let some languages go by.
Would be interested in seeing recommendations for filling an hour per day with a new language. Certainly not 4 Assimil lessons per day? Maybe how you would add in a) an old TYS or b) a Langenscheidt-style course which has a dialogue, grammar examples, and exercises (eg shadow dialogues cyclically while going through the grammar in order? Cherry-picking grammar to complement Assimil as in the Using French video?) Basically like, is there such a thing as "too much" up front?
Hello David, thanks for the great suggestion for another video.
@@ProfASAr Oh, and maybe comment on a range of 4x15m options. For example, I'd venture to guess your ideal might be 2x Assimil generations and 2x Linguaphone generations (for a handful of languages, including French & German, this is possible if you can track down the materials). But let's say something like Turkish or Hindi have 1xAssimil and 1xLinguaphone, fill in the other 30m; or something like Welsh has a Linguaphone but no Assimil, fill in the other 45m.
@@davexhayter Noted, David.
I'd be interested in this as well. There's only so much my poor brain can assimilate for a single new language like Georgian in the course of an hour or two.
@@Christopher_Stead Noted and noted and noted again, Chris!
Anki helps me learn passive vocabulary for reading by targeting common words. I prefer reading, but if my reading level is too low for texts, I need more vocabulary.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
I got started in several languages in different ways and still feel like I can’t learn things efficiently. I am pretty good and fluent in English but that’s because it took basically most too my free time and constant steals of self input, and I would like to have something more organized. I love LingoDeer and use it but still can’t say I can speak things.
Thanks for commenting. I don't know about LingoDeer - there are so many programs and apps out there now...
@@ProfASAr Indeed! I have it from its early versions and I think it manages to engage the different aspects of learning very nicely. Basically it has topics separated in short lessons that has things more thoroughly set and explained than for example Duolingo (which I am sorry I absolutely despise for my learning) or Rosetta Stone or Babbel. It is nice because I don't feel like I am sacrificing grammar, vocabulary or relevance (because certain places make it so boring and with dull content) however I feel like I still can't make the best of things. I have the discipline but I feel stagnant, and have gone back to review from the start of things because of my lack of ability.
I have learnt with in-private lessons languages like Dutch, German and Italian, but also feel unable to talk. I can understand and read so much, even listen well but I feel like a blank page when it comes to talking. I have been occasionally trying to journal or to describe things in the language I am learning but the abyss of lack of vocabulary or other really complicates getting anywhere at all. Anyhow, sorry for the rant and I am a relatively new subscriber. I wanted to thank because I have been in tune to your videos and paying more mind to the learning process of things to do better. Also, I am a huge cat person so I am very happy that you have that perfect little being in all the videos I saw so far. Thank you!
im gonna be honest, i only clicked the video for the adorable cat :)
Watch this, then: ua-cam.com/video/vI3eoYg3hXU/v-deo.html
Anki-like things (I use Memrise) may use phrases instead of just words, and that may be helpful for learning a language in fact :)
Good point, of course, is that many people get pleasure from their Memrise, Anki, Duolingo success through gamification - replacing learning the language with playing with the app. I would recommend them do other things related like having one-on-one conversations at italki or elsewhere, that also may become somewhat addictive fun and boosts your language leaning even more.
Thank you so much for articulating so well what I was dancing around formulating, namely that these programs run the danger of gamification, "replacing learning the language with playing with the app."
Flashcards are the starting point
Starting point for what?
I loved the video and your langauge learning advice. I'm unsure about your coignage though. Without your explanation, 'polyitis' could be taken as another term for systemic inflamation.
How about "linguaholic"?
@@Christopher_Stead yeah I love that one.
Thanks for the appreciation. As for the term, let it be... polysemantic!
When people say Chinese, I never know whether they mean Mandarin or Cantonese. I believe all the Chinese over here, in the UK, speak Cantonese. 🇬🇧
Let's be blunt: for the world at large, Chinese= Mandarin.
I was startled when the cat moved... I thought it was stuffed...
Ha, he had you hypnotized, did he!?
@@ProfASAr yeah I hope that he didn't ask for my ssn
Cat-son is like "I want to learn Esperanto."
Your cat-son?
@@ProfASAr yours. What's his name?
@@diogenesstudent5585 Merlin!
That cat is massive.
It is partly the angle - look at him here: ua-cam.com/video/vI3eoYg3hXU/v-deo.html
I watched this video while making anki cards, I wonder if I should continue :(
I think not...
I've had this question for a while, and I think I may have found the right person to answer it. I am fluent in Early Modern English. It's almost like a second tongue for me, as it were. I've heard it and used it for just as long as I have used Modern English. So, could Early Modern English be considered a separate language from Modern English? I realize that this is a complex question that may be centered in an opinion, but I haven't yet been able to find any sort of answer for it. Could I consider myself "bilingual", or is eMnE simply a "fancier version" of MnE? Or is it a complicated mix?
I would say it is just an historical dialect, so no, you are not bilingual, but can use different dialects.
@@ProfASAr Thank you for the clarification. Maybe, after a while, I'll be able to say that I am legitimately bilingual...
This cat ate the dog of the Anki person 😁
And afterwards you can see him resting peacefully here: ua-cam.com/video/vI3eoYg3hXU/v-deo.html
im here for the kitty
You are not alone!
Professor, werden Ihre „Study Sessions“ auch später auf Ihrer Website veröffentlicht? Selbst wenn man später dafür bezahlen müsste, um auf die Aufnahmen zugreifen zu können denke ich, dass selbst die aufgezeichneten Lektionen/Sessions für Interessierte von großem Wert sein könnten.
Was bedeutet meine „Study Sessions“ - mich selbst beim Lesen usw. verfilmen, sowie das hier? ua-cam.com/video/Kco-8_OyJns/v-deo.html
@@ProfASAr Also so wie ich verstanden habe, wird es ab Mai 2022 Kurse auf Ihrer Website geben, um das Leseverständnis in verschiedenen Sprachen zu verbessern. Sind dies dann Zoom Konferenzen oder von Ihnen im Voraus verfilmte Anleitungsvideos, also Videos in der Art, wie Sie sie hier auf UA-cam grundsätzlich hochladen? Falls es live sessions sind, werden diese dann auch aufzeichnet und später hochgeladen?
seriously it's hard to learn languages , it takes you thousands of days just to learn one of them but I wish speak at least 4 languages .
Four languages are well within your reach if you work long and hard at it!
Italian language books are edited by Vallardi, Zanichelli or Hoepli
Thanks for commenting.
I think for normal humans the only good advice is to come back to it every day, however little, and be exposed to a few more new words.
We can debate the particulars for all time, but there is very little research to back any of it up. What role does each activity have, how important is the person's situation, what methods are sustainable, what methods are the most efficient, what is the minimum speed etc.. These are fun to adjust the knobs on as you go, but I've seen nothing rigourous and I see too much hot air among self professed experts
Thanks for commenting.
16:00 In my view it's not practical to simultaneously study lot's of languages. It's better to spend 1-3 years and become an advanced speaker or some would even reach a native-level like proficiency rather than spend 3 years on a bunch of languages that you couldn't fully use.
Thanks for sharing your perspective.
pet the kitty!!!!!
Done!
That cat staring at me
Have a look at this: ua-cam.com/video/vI3eoYg3hXU/v-deo.html
When COVID hit and I still haven’t become fluent…
Thanks for commenting...
5:28 😂
Yes...?
The entire "global north" is currently well under replacement population growth. The dominant languages of the "global south" (Arabic, Spanish, Br. Portuguese, Swahili, English, etc) will, in my opinion, because extremely important in about 20 years. In 20 years I believe you'll see immigration politics completely reversed, with developed nations competing over immigrants.
Thanks for commenting about what languages are likely to be important in the near future.
Where are the time stamps?
In the description.
06:22 😂
The universe has subsequently saddled me with a big friendly dog for making this comment.
Chairman Meow.
Have you seen him in his own feature? ua-cam.com/video/vI3eoYg3hXU/v-deo.html