The Craziest Cy Young Race in MLB History
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- Опубліковано 25 вер 2024
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In a year of fantastic pitching, Jake Arrieta, Clayton Kershaw and Zack Greinke were on another planet. Their race for the Cy Young was simply historic.
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#mlb #cubs #dodgers
I still remember this race like it was yesterday. I was too young to understand the deeper statistics more important for a CY, but still could tell how legendary their seasons were that year.
I remember that season and felt Grienke deserved it
@@jerrygomez3825 Using a ranked points system of modern stats, where the higher your place the lower the points, Arrieta had statistically the best overall year, closely followed by Kershaw. Greinke, while barely leading two stats over Arrieta, was not a leader in any others or even top 3. If not Arrieta, than Kershaw shouldve won.
Same. I remember arguments being made for putting Arrieta in the HOF just for that amazing 3 season stretch he had.
@@MethaneHorizon What stats did they look at? Greinke led all major league pitchers in ERA+, WHIP and WAR.
@@jerrygomez3825 I had Grienke that year but wins still mattered around this time and Arrieta 22 wins to Grienke 19 plus the Cubs success is probably what got him the votes. Grienke from start of the season to finish was the most consistent. Arrieta had video game stats the 2nd half.
I remember watching Jake Arrieta's no hitter in 2015 and it instantly making me fall in love with baseball as a kid.
This aged me
I wonder if arrieta was using something to give his pitches better spin, because he done fell off since that year. I'm a cards fan so I know about arrieta. He's also from Farmington, MO. About an hour from st louis.
@@senorpepper3405 very well could have been but baseballs also a weird sport, we’ve seen guys randomly pop off then go back in to obscurity just as quickly
@@dylantyrrell9084 Me too "As a kid" when that shit feels like yesterday
@@senorpepper3405 they all were/are.. they can't stop that. Maybe they should be allowed to use gripping substances if they can't make the baseball right... but in reality people can really just get lucky for a full season. Triston McKenzie has been pitching magic this year but his BABIP is like .400 plus, his hard contact is high, he gives up flyballs and so on. Tyler Anderson the exact same thing. These guys get super famous and get big contracts then things happen. If you want an answer to ANY decline in ANY professional athlete you just have to look to their personal life. It's always something personal..
Peak Kershaw was absolutely nuts. From 2011-2017, he AVERAGED 207 IP and a 179 ERA+ per season. That was his AVERAGE season over that stretch! And somehow he still put up a 184 in 2022 (though in 126 IP, not 200)
If he wasn't such a big playoff choker he'd be the consensus goat pitcher
Its crazy how stacked the NL Cy Young race that year, the AL Cy Young winner that year, Dallas Keuchel, probably wouldn't haven finished 5th in voting if the Astros were still in the NL.
If it were 2013 I guess he would have finished 5th lol
Yeah but his stats would have been better if he was pitching in the nl.
@@adamclark9004 asstros fan?
@@PourinOutTheSyrup hell no. Royals
I doubt it. If we just take Keuchel’s statistics as they were in 2015, he likely would finish 5th behind Arrieta, Greinke, Kershaw, and Scherzer. He would likely finish ahead of deGrom and Cole because he pitched significantly more innings than both of them.
From the beginning of the season to the end, Greinke was the most consistently excellent pitcher. But the way Arrieta pitched the last 2 months or so was just unreal. He deserved the award. And I say that as a lifelong Dodger fan.
Kershaw was robbed
Do you mean the 63% of the season after mid June, when he had a .87 era? He was unhittable the majority of that season, not taking away from the other 2 guys, it was a great pitching season.
As a dodger fan I always felt Zack deserve the award that year. Having Kershaw so dominate at the time probably took votes from him. He should’ve had 1 Cy Young during his tenure
Arrieta deserved it. Guarantee if greinke or Keershaw threw a no hitter and had a .063 era for the last 2 months you would say he deserved it.
@@squidbate3404 the award should be the entire season not a 2 month run.
@@97NikeSb Agreed however I'm guessing the voters were inclined to vote for Arrieta because his recent performances were fresh on their mind. That an in 2015 they still favored pitcher wins.
@@CrazyCubsfan11 exactly. Plus, 22 wins used to ALWAYS stand out amongst all the stats for a pitcher.
I agree. First off, I’m convinced Grienke was pitching for a new contract and that’s why he was so good that season lol but he was the most consistent all year and deserved it more over everyone else.
This was one of my favourite years of baseball.
Jolly you have single handedly got me interested in baseball again.
still remember that year. arrieta went on an incredible streak the second half, and was warranted of some top MVP votes..that's how good he was
Yep! I believe his ERA post all star game was something like .84 at one point. absolutely ridiculous
He's been bunk since
@@alfredosanmiguel8840 Yeah considering where his stats were before then compared to Grienke and Kershaw, it was gonna take unfathomable proficiency and consistency to be in their conversation. The fact the Cubs went 13-0 and he didn't give up more than one run in any start, having a sub 1 ERA and pulling his season ERA down over a whole point is just insanely remarkable. The only thing more remarkable was that he was so dominant that he was able to beat out TWO guys with 2.13 and 1.66 ERA's, sub .90 whips, and 25+ wins for the CY Young award. I honestly forgot how dominant he was because looking back at that season for Grienke and Kershaw I always wondered how on Earth one of them didn't win the award. Arrieta was nearly perfect for an entire half of a season, playing one of the best stretches of play in MLB history. Dominance like that is nearly impossible to replicate, even for the game's all time best.
@@senorpepper3405 He was an All-Star and won the World Series the next year lol
@@rohunsaigal2576 you mean he was part of the team that won the world series. Okay and he has been regressing ever since. That was his last all star game, his only actually. Although he should of went in '15.
I remember as a like 12 year old watch every Kershaw and greinkie start, I went to a Fourth of July game in the middle of greinkie’s scoreless streak, I remember where I was when he lost it. I remember the sorrow of the no hitter I remember Kershaw hitting 300 strikeouts. Shit was awesome
What a race man! Way to tell the story too! I had no idea who won it throughout and I love the way you presented the story.
I knew who won it because this was the first season I really started taking baseball super seriously
2015 was the first year I started playing fantasy baseball and I remember greinke falling to the 6th round of the draft. I had just turned 13 and I could finally stay up to watch the west coast games. on top of that I'm a mets fan. that year was absolute magic
I've always felt Greinke should've won. Sucks that he got robbed of being one of the few pitchers to win a cy young in both leagues.
I don't think robbed is the right word. He deserved it, but so did the other two. He's gonna be in the HOF regardless, so his career won't be forgotten.
Yes!
I agree
Had a great year. Pitched fewer innings, k'd less hitters, and won 3 fewer games with an era advantage of .11.
@@chicagodude8888 it could have gone either way, for me ks don't matter as for the IP it was what by 8 or 9 if not mistaken as well arrieta lost 3 more games then grenkie so it depends how you see it. Personally for me I take the era and the i.p as well as the BB them the ks. But that's just me.
Jake also had a stellar game in the NLWCG against the pirates in 2015
As a lifelong Zack Greinke devotee, reading the title of this video made me angry in a way I haven’t felt in years.
It stings less now that he’s comfortably on track to get into the Hall and everyone seems to be acknowledging that finally. But man…
And despite all their achievements and dominance, Daniel Murphy took all three of these pitchers deep in the 2015 playoffs. It's less an indictment of them than it is a showcase of how Murphy went completely supernova in that postseason
And then went on to have like 4 errors in the WS?
Considering where Arrieta's stats were before his historic stretch compared to Grienke and Kershaw, it seemed impossible to win Cy Young, and it was gonna take unfathomable proficiency and consistency to be in their conversation. The fact the Cubs went 13-0 and he didn't give up more than one run in any start, having a sub 1 ERA and pulling his season ERA down over a whole point is just insanely remarkable. The only thing more remarkable was that he was so dominant that he was able to beat out TWO guys with 2.13 and 1.66 ERA's, sub .90 whips, well over 200 innings pitched, and 25+ wins (Kershaw having 300 strikeouts too) for the CY Young award. I honestly forgot how dominant he was because looking back at that season for Grienke and Kershaw I always wondered how on Earth one of them didn't win the award. Arrieta was nearly perfect for an entire half of a season, playing one of the best stretches of play in MLB history. Dominance like that is nearly impossible to replicate, even for the game's all time best. Bravo, you love to see it, it makes baseball so interesting and entertaining to watch
Anyone think Jon Lester was robbed of the nl cy young in 2016? He went 19-5 with a 2.44. Scherzer won with a 20-7 record and a 2.96 ERA. He pitched more innings and k'd more hitters, but he allowed over .6/runs per start.
Lester or Hendricks should have won, I think they split the vote for the Cubs just like Greinke and Kershaw did this year
That year was incredible. That race reminded me of the batting title race of 1984 between Winfield and Mattingly. EDIT: would LOVE to see you do a video on Orel Hershiser's '88 season - possibly the greatest season of any pitcher ever. He won the World Series too. and yes, I mean HE won the World Series that year - HIM. NOT the Dodgers, lol.
I’m really liking the thumbnail and the background music so far. this is going to be good video I can tell.
Haven’t even watched the video, but know the story well. I have my own perspective on who was the Greinkest pitcher that season. Typo: Oops. I meant greatest ;)
Omggggggggggzufxhfxxff FB I I’m can B u V ns in I tag Fuchs
I was rooting for jake arrieta and it was the wildest ride of my life. I’ve been waiting for a video like this ever since. Thank you jolly olive!
I remember talking about this race all year with a teacher at school bc he was a massive fan and was always game to talk about baseball
I still think this should have been Greinke's, I think if he had Cy Young's in both NL and AL he would have a really interesting HoF case
He'll still get in the HoF, probably not first ballot but he'll get in.
He’s a pretty safe bet to get in.
He will get in don’t need 300 wins anymore to make the hall
solid chance he gets in, but im not completely confident
@@GavinOCo he’s 100% getting in his war is over 70 with 200 wins 2700 strikeouts and a cup young. easy hof
I watched all three of the top 3 national league pitcher live more in 2015. Dodger stadium is my home base and saw Greinke pitch 4 times Kershaw 2 and Jake I luckily was at wrigley visiting cousins to see him take a no no deep against the south side Sox. I believe the only run scored that day was a homer by jake. My point is. Zack Greinke was a cut above everyone that year. I was at the game where Kershaw got his 300 strikeout, however Greinke’s scoreless inning streak (all 3 longest scoreless innings streaks in the NL are right handed Dodgers) was incredible to follow and watch in person. I believe Greinke should’ve taken home the award. But hey, I know he doesn’t care much for them and has won it in the past. Just wish I could see such a legendary season acknowledged.
Acknowledgement can come from fans like you. That race was ridiculous because anyone truly could’ve won the award. I was happy Jake won it, but I was pretty shocked greinke didn’t win it. He had an insane season. Kudos to every pitcher that year. It’s crazy to think guys like Cole and Mad dog Scherzer finished 4th and 5th.
The clip of the dude spraying champagne on him and the kid is wild LMAO
I think the Cy young should have gone to Greinkei.
Never knew it was that close. Arrieta did have arguably the best 2-3 months pitching ever tho
You drop some of my fav baseball commentaries Jolly, thank you for some Dodgers content 🙏🏼
I remember this year and the races fondly and the playoffs that year were incredibly memorable and some of the best
I remember having Greinke, Arrieta, deGrom, Scherzer, Shelby Miller, and Jose Fernandez in fantasy baseball that season. No idea how I managed to pull that off in a 12 team league but it was certainly a fun year for the squad.
Was super fun to be a Dodgers fan during the Kershaw-Greinke era. A duo as scary as Halladay and Cliff Lee
More like Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling
@@laisaechao1412 well i started watching baseball in 08 so Halladay and Lee were the best duo I ever saw up to that point
It’s crazy because it wasn’t just Halladay and Lee, it was also Hamels at his best in 2011 with Roy Oswalt mixed in. That rotation was stacked. Crazy how that 2011 Phillies team lost first round
Arrieta’s run that’s year was magical. It was exactly what the cubs needed to get the momentum to win a World Series. Will never forget that no hitter against Cincy especially because my arrieta shirsey arrived the same day.
Since that all star break arrieta ascended into his own league. Such a good time being a cubs fan at that time
4:47 can we appreciate that kersh threw 95 on his 116th pitch of the outing?
I was at Dodger stadium for Jake's 2015 no-no and it was definitely one of the top 5 games I've ever seen
Incredible video ! Well edited and presented . You put the Jolly Olive in my martini today .
As a Dodgers fan, I remember this one...and it still stings a little.
I think Arrieta's more innings pitched and K's wasn't quite enough to put him over Grienke until that no-hitter against one the best NL teams at their park, oh and also Grienke's team. What a flex. He also had a sub 1 era the 2nd half of the season, arguably the best stretch in MLB history, or at least on Bob Gibson's level. But Im a bit biased, as a cubs fan. So who knows...
Great video! Earned my sub! Can’t wait to binge watch this channel.
kershaw and greinke deserved it more than jake. Still can’t deny his 2nd half, probably the greatest oat
Greinke deserved it more no way kershaw did tho the era difference is just too big
@@stephenaddison4727 era isn’t a good stat
@@billsgates783 Era is a very reliable stat for starters. The only bad stat for pitchers is wins and losses.
@@billsgates783 I’m very curious to see what stat you think matters more than ERA. Literally the pitchers job is to not give up runs
@@boppityboopy114 a combo of fip and era+ is the best
A pitcher with an incredible outfield is gonna look much better than a pitcher with awful cover/ in coors
I’m a simple man when Jolly posts I click and watch
I wasn't watching baseball during that Cy Young Race, but personally I would have given it to Kershaw.
I remember trying to argue to friends that Kershaw deserved it but most of them thought Greinke or Arrieta should win
Arrieta had a lot external things working in his favor like his strong finish, older voters still over valuing wins, and with Kershaw and Grienke splitting the vote (happens way too often even though it shouldn’t) it doesn’t surprise me that he won
Arietta pitched more innings and k'd more hitters. His era was .11 runs higher than Greinke. Why were either of those 2 more deserving?
@@chicagodude8888 Greinke not so much besides era but I think Kershaw deserves it more than Arrieta. Only 3 more innings than Arrieta but 65 more k’s, better fip, a whip only .02 points behind and a 2.13 era as well
@@nelly.1144Arrieta had an 8.57 war, Kershaw had a 7.49. We can play that game all day. All 3 pitchers had phenomenal years. Arrieta had the best.
@@nelly.1144 I take it your a Dodger fan, as Dodger fans are really the only people who contest Arrieta winning the award. You guys have been the class of the NL for 6 seasons and the Cubs haven't been relevant since 2018. Enjoy the ride, a feeling Cubs fans have very little understanding of.
Great vid, as usual. Way to be JO 🙌🏻
I'm a huge Dodger fan, and living in Los Angeles watched most of the games Kershaw and Greinke pitched. I saw Arrieta three or four times as well. The numbers put up that season by all three were just ridiculous and there was no right or wrong choice.
I will say, and it's why most of the stat heads at the time believed he should have won, that Kershaw was by far and away the best pitcher that season. He so dominated hitters in a way Zack and Jake never approached. Ask any hitter which of the three they would have least liked to face that season. As he was most of that era, Kershaw was in a class by himself.
That said, despite how much the hard core analytics guys want to reduce all such evaluations down to only what the player has full control over, it is a team game, and to some degree it all counts in award choices. Kershaw was the best pitcher, but that is not to say Jake (or Zack) didn't deserve the award.
Big ups for your wholesome opinion. I think one reason why some hitters would say kershaw was the hardest to hit is because of his ridiculous curveball that Jake and Greinke didn’t have in their pitching arsenal. When that pitch is right, it can’t be hit.
@@kevinryan8592 Thanks! The immortal Vin Scully described that curve best when he called it, after a stupidly knee buckling version in spring training, “public enemy number one.”
@@ktbeatty classic Vin
Jolly my friend, thank you for another great video!
As a Dodger fan those Kershaw shutouts against the Giants were so satisfying. He should have won five consecutive Cy Youngs from 2011-2015.
No
thanks for the video! really cool stuff.
I came from the Jolly JoZo's loss to LoveYas video. I'm looking forward to more content. Thanks again!
9:10 that is a crazy strike three call
The second thing I remember most about that season was how, despite having arguably the two best pitchers in the game, the Dodgers couldn’t get past the overachieving Mets that season.
I see you Jolly. Putting in a fly out by your fellow company man T-Plouffe
Great video as always Jolly! LETS GO METS
Seriously great vid
Keep these great vids up 💯
I'm still amazed how Greinke didn't win. Led NL in WAR, WIN%, ERA, WHIP, AND ERA+
And what did my Pirates get for a great 98 win season in 2015? A one game playoff against Jake Arrieta.
The one game playoff was trash
This was so vindicating as a Cubs fan. After years of trading for guys who were washed up and past their prime, we finally got a guy just before he got really good, then shipped him out of town just before he crashed. (the less said about resigning him in 2021, the better)
I love this video! Glad it was made so it doesn’t get lost in history. From time to time, I go back and marvel at the stats from that season. I think they got the Cy Young wrong! 😑
This talks to my soul... Thanks
That was a frustrating year for us Dodger fans. With these historic pitchers firing on all cylinders we still didn't even get passed the NLDS. It was a huge thud at the end and kinda erased the memory of how good Kershaw and Grienke were that year.
Finally someone makes a video on this race 😅
Can you put together a video about the 2012 AL MVP race? Triple crown (old school) vs advanced analytics (new school)
I’m actually in this video. The Arrieta start vrs the Nationals I’m sitting right behind home plate going nuts after each strikeout.
Dude was showering Arrieta with champagne while he was holding his kid 🤣💀
Greinke had a historic year and if anything Kershaw ironically had the best full year of his career (more than 200IP). Actually, looking back and taking in all the stats, Kershaw had the clear-cut better year out of the three and that's not statistically disputable.
As great as Arrieta was, I'm sure the Cubs narrative of making the playoffs helped his case a bit in the mind of the voters. And I will never understand how a guy has a couple of really good months and gets rewarded while others who are great all year long get pushed to the side.
It happened in 2015 with Arrieta, it happened last year with Ray, and it almost happened with Flaherty in 2019.
Do Rafael Betancourt 2007
One word consistency - Zack's ERA never went above 2 the whole year, 30 quality starts! add the scoreless inning streak and a GOLD GLOVE!!!! and 2 homeruns! Honesty I feel he didn't win because he wasn't sitting in live with the other nominees on the MLB channel when they announced the winner.
Martinez had a great 1997 but a quick look in voting and top 5 was strong: 5th place Darryl kile had 6 complete games, 4 shutouts, 19-7 record, 205 Ks, 2.57 ERA, and 1.18 WHIP and 156 ERA+. 2-4 were Maddux, Neagle and Schilling. The winner was clear but give me that top 5 over anyone
1969 was crazier in my opinion. Well made video though. Thanks
If this were 1988, none of these pitchers would win the Cy Young award.
Great video 👏🏽
Greinke signed a 6 year 206 million dollar deal with the dodgers, not 3 years 70 million. He took a player option and then signed with the Dbacks. Just a nitpick but I feel thats an important distinction.
Is there really a debate about if Greinke’s a hall of famer?
Sadly Arrieta had nothing left after a couple good starts in 2017. Everyone talks about his harsh mechanics and I believe it. A slider with crazy movement above 90MPH is not sustainable
As a Phillies fan it was awful he had nothing left and refused to acknowledge it and blamed it on others.
As long as he hasn’t permanently damaged his arm for the rest of his life it’s certainly worth it to pitch with bad mechanics or unsustainably for a dominant 5~ years than not reach the heights that he did
I don’t know. Aaron Harang was ELITE for my Phillies in 2015
Holy crap, I forgot how many teams had legitimate aces back then.
Greinke will still go to the hall, it might take a second or third run on the ballot, but he'll get in
I remember that one time Jake pitched a no hitter and a fan went on the field to celebrate. The fan didn’t even get caught I think 😭
Arrietas last loss of the regular season was when the Cubs were no hit
2015 was a fun year and what a crazy Cy young this was
I think Jake won simply due to throwing a no-hitter at dodger stadium and the second half ERA was just ridiculous and at that point hadn’t been seen in a long time.
I think Greinke and Kershaw being on the same team hurt them voting wise (Similar to the Cubs in 16 with Lester and Hendricks I believe) Either way it was a fun year for baseball. I know I always paid attention when these 3 were pitching.
Jake won becaue the last 2 months of the season his ERA was 0.41. That is a historically significant number. It's hard to process 0.41. It's ridiculous and couldn't be ignored.
Great video 👌
It's crazy how even (as in equal) these stats(11:23) are based on the rank and importance of each stat. Its almost looks scripted. For example grienke was last adding up his rankings for each BUT he was 1st on both of the arguably most important stats for a pitcher era and whip, which basically makes up for the lesser stats.
2019 JV vs Cole up there
great filmmaking. Fantastic.
Great video! Kershaw “virtually” a lock for the HoF??? 🤨 There is zero “virtually” needed. As of 2022, he is a first ballot HoF if he never pitches another pitch
Jake arietta cutter that season was way too nasty
.41 ERA in 88 innings is NUTS
IIRC, Greinke ended up with the best advanced stats for the whole season, but I have never seen anything like second half Arrieta that season.
When Roy Halladay won it it 2010 it was nuts too
Zach should have won. His stats this season aren't human. To have these stats and not win a Cy Young is unbelievable
Have you ever done a video about Carlos Pena?
Greinke deserved the Cy. He was better from beginning to end that season. If Kershaw wasn't on the same team as Greinke that year, Greinke definitely wins it. Kershaw took votes away from his own teammate.
Do a video on vince Velasquez 16 strikeout game
I'm not saying Arrieta was undeserving, but it's just not correct to say that he was the most consistent. It's true that Greinke's ERA rose the final two months of the season, but that's largely because it was so ridiculously low up to that point. His ERA for the month of August was 2.45, and in September it was 1.87. He was 12-1 after the All Star break. Greinke was hot all season long, Arrieta not so much.
Grenkie’s lukewarm end…… a 2.15 era over the last two months…… if that’s lukewarm I will take 5 lukewarm pitchers please
That wild card game is what separates Arietta from the rest of the two
12:30 Greinke is definitely a hof’er
Everyone saying Greinke got robbed is being dramatic. This wasn’t a Rick Porcello Cy Young. Jake had a .41 ERA down the stretch that lead a premature Cubs team to the NLCS in an insanely tough division. It’s arguably the best stretch of pitching in the last 20 years.
Man I still remember listening to almost every game that year. I thought greinke was absolutely robbed. Still do
Maybe its the homer in me but for the past 4 or 5 years I've had greinke as a lock for the hall. Ik baseball's is the hardest to get into but his career has been so long and so good that i couldnt possibly see him not getting in. Kersh is a lock for first ballot in my mind and grienke is at least in the top 5 of guys that have been around during his era. Based on my own logic if youre top 5 as a pitcher in almost any era then i think you should be a lock to make it in. especially with the length of career grienke has had. As for who should've won i think i'd give it to kersh. a sub .250 with 300k's is a frankly ridiculous year. maybe 5 guys in the history of baseball could do that in that era of bats. The 300 k's wouldve been the deciding factor for me. imagine the dodgers year if they had scherzer at that point though. holy fuck am i glad we got to play the mets in the WS that year