Yeah, I made that misstake. Got an Exedy Hyper Single clutch for my daily driver. Yes, everything else was modified, bushings, suspension, the lot. But it's just not doable. I had 2 options at a traffic light: Try to get away like a normal person, while hopping and bopping about and not only feel like an idiot but looking like one too, or the 2nd option, to just spin and burn away and let your tires deal with it. Which is obviously the best way mechanically to do it. However, youre gona get some strange stares, especially from law enforcement. but don't worry, you get to explain all that to the latter shortly after. I hands down guarante it.
I recently test drove a Civic Type R, the only modifications were an exhaust backbox and a racing clutch. It wasn't fun, and the alignment was way off, wouldn't be surprised if suspension damage was caused by the clutch transferring forces to all the suspension components.
Engineering 101: Always make your failing point the safest and cheapest components to replace. For example, if clutch fails, the worse that can happen is that the car won't be able to maintain speed and accelerate. If the metal driveshaft fails, there's a a chance of metal shrapnel causing even more damage to the rest of the car or if one is super unlucky, somehow wind up injuring the car's occupants.
Woah this was so comprehensive without having any unecessary fluff. Great vid. I always wondered what the difference was between "burning" and "blowing up" a clutch
Ive been using a stock replacement clutch in my race car for years. Doing autocross, gymkhana, sprints etc. about 900kg race weight and 230 crank HP. It has plenty enough bite and not that long ago I inspected an its in as-new condition. very pleased. Something not covered in the video is shifting speed and how well each type of clutch can disengage. Would be worth mentioning that multi plate clutches can have the same grip with less pedal pressure, or more grip with the same pedal pressure. Ive driven a triple plate carbon clutch and it drove like a stock one but held over 1000hp.
Good video, to a point. There are different friction materials available and that should be taken into account. For example, whilst an organic friction plate has less torque capacity it is much nicer to drive with and, with the correct selection of pressure plate spring, may have sufficient torque capacity for the application. Some sintered/cera-metallic friction plates are available with sprung hubs, which can ease the loadings on transmissions and sometimes reduce NVH. It 'may'also help with the clutch engagement transition. If you look at how the friction material is attached on a 'stock' 'plate, you will see the material isn't directly fitted to the hub/carrier, but is actually fitted to a sort of springy plate that holds the two halves apart. This is called a "Marcel spring" (look it up) and is used to give a progressive takeup - as the clutch engages the pressure on the friction surfaces increases progressively as the Marcel spring compresses. There have been devices over the years to introduce a similar progressive effect with 'race' clutches using hydraulic release systems by fitting something (basically a spring loaded piston the fluid compresses) in the line that compresses under line pressure giving an artificially extended engagement range. Looking for examples of the above, it seems some manufacturors (eg. Honda) incorporate a one-way restriction into the hydraulic line to dampen, and so reduce, the shock loadings that a sudden clutch pedal release/dump/sidestep would otherwise impart on the transmission.
Thank you so much - just bought a Reliant Scimitar GTE with some kind of race clutch, and this video totally explains why it's so difficult to start off in a non-crazy manner! Mystery solved - thanks again, massively appreciated.
Also forgot to mention that, in most cases, when you modify your car and start to see higher horsepower/torque numbers you won’t be able to use your stock clutch and will have to upgrade to a racing clutch. I found this out the hard way lmao
You just touched on planned failure points at the end there, and that was actually the question I've been thinking of recently. What are the considerations when engineering a rally car that go into the relative strengths of different pieces? I could see ease of repair, cost, and threat to safety being big considerations that would be different for each team.
It's just moving down the line of power, so better clutch = the gears in the trans engaging harder then they are born to do.. driveshaft components that are stock are taking more torque if that holds up the next in line for big torque is the Diff if that holds up will the axle shafts which are driven by the diff take that extra grunt off the line. If all goes well, how much will the weight of the tire rim package engage the road/ dirt. Also more combustion pressure on The front side of clutch engagement within the engine. So boost away if all goes well. Lol subi life = more axle shafts. Can't forget all the mounts mentioned, usually stock rubber or liquid filled style will take most of the burnt one or two launches.
Is that a new microphone??? The point about failure points was very interesting. Its the kind of insight that sets this channel apart from most others.
Btw you can still drive on a worn or broken clutch it will be hard to get in gear but you will be able to make it home doing 15-25 Mph while holding your gear as far as you can in first
i put a stage one south bend clutch clutch in my 2g eclipse and it works great on the street but i wouldn't want anything much higher than that, it grabs the gears pretty damn hard
I have a corolla wagon that I have put about 8k miles on (6 months) a single plate 6 puck sprung hub race clutch (stage 3 miba) and chromoly flywheel. Polymounts etc all that. This winter I plan on pulling the trans to inspect for wear and swap the disc if necessary. Would you be interested in a clip of the parts as an example of what the wear and maintenance is on a race clutch? Keep up the good work 👍
Noobie driver here who's definitely gotten into the slipping habit of using the clutch. What should I be doing with the clutch then? If I'm not supposed to slip it, but also not supposed to just pop the clutch up, what's the inbetween?
There's always going to be *a little* slip when you let the clutch out, especially in 1st gear, and especially on a hill or in deep sand or something. The clutch is a "wear item" no matter what you do, it's designed to be eventually consumed just like brake pads are... BUT if you're conscious of slipping the clutch and trying to minimize that as much as you can, you can get it to last A LOT longer than the average person. The fact you're thinking about it and trying to get better means you're already way ahead of most people on the road.
D R no.... really? You don’t need to touch your trans other then your clutch unless you shift really harsh for a manual. On a stock manual trans the only thing you actually need to touch when you add power is the clutch
I bought this car built though as ARP head studs the Pistons are bored to 10 or 550 lb injectors it was rebuilt in the transmission was rebuilt for the track I guess now it's in my garage don't think I can everyday drive it
A twin disc clutch is the best of both worlds as long as you can tolerate the noise IMO. However “most” people don’t need a performance clutch in a daily driver.
Yeah I'm the dropper for sure. I purposely get stage 4's solely for the purpose of burning and peeling out. Made my 4 banger run smoother with the heavy clutch but feels diff in the V6 and V8. Don't drive a 4 stage in downtown San Fran, especially on a rainy day!!!
I could use a bit of your insight on my clutch... As far as not rev'ing too much what leaving a stop sign: standing start, traffic light, etc- is it normal for turbo cars like a GTI, WRX, to have enough lag during taking off which makes you have to blip the gas a bit more as you release the clutch? I have a MINI R60 (first turbo car I've ever owned) and first gear has been a PITA to get the hang of taking off from standing stops. When I first got the car and tried driving it like a normally aspirated manual transmission, the car would just about stall as I let out the clutch. I found that if I blipped the gas a bit more as the clutch pedal was 2/3 of the way out, kept the revs up that it didn't bog down. Crazy, as I've driven manuals all my life but this clutch is kicking my butt. The clutch isn't slipping but is chattering during take-offs. :( Thanks in advance for the advice!
Hi Will, all cars will be different as you are saying. Especially AWD cars that take more effort to get all of that driveline moving. A N/A car will certainly have more low end TQ to get you moving with minimal clutch effort as well. Daily a WRX here and there is a difference in how much clutch slip I give for when I am easing off the line and when i want to get going faster. Again each car is different and you will have to find that happy spot for each one.
Another thing manufacturers have been doing is making 1st gear a lot taller than it often used to be, a lot of cars 1st was a "granny gear" that was only good up to 15mph or so but was basically impossible to stall out and great for starting on hills etc. Then the 0-60 times in magazines became more important for sales, shifting takes time, now your 1st gear is good to 40mph or more sometimes... but starting on a hill makes you rev the motor and slip the clutch to avoid stalling out. One thing you can do is mount a smaller diameter tire (if that's an option) which will instantly lower your gearing across the board. That's nice especially in the winter when you want the low-speed torque. If it's going to be a race car you might want to look at swapping transmissions. One last thought is rotating mass, the actual weight of your wheels and tires to get them turning. Lightweight wheels might actually make a noticeable difference.
Had my clutch explode on my f250 i shifted from 4th to 3rd was going about 35 slowing down to 25 found out the guy that put it in didnt bolt the pressure plate up right got the another clutch for free
I bought a mustang gt and it has a stage 2 race clutch and I everyday drive it. It's very stiff but I enjoy it. I take care of it and I have family mechanics and I have a warranty that covers most of it except for the clutch which is okay.
I went from an organic single disk to an organic dual disk and the dual disc destroys the single in street drivability. Pedal is super light and now the shifter feels much easier to shift.
Centerforce clutch disk broke on my truck. The thing that holds the springs broke off and wedged the spring between the disk and pressure plate. Pedal wont go depress down and its stuck. I had to drive home and shifted without stepping clutch pedal.
I bought a second hand ford focus mk2.5 last year, I had the car for less than a week and my clutch cave in on me. I pulled away from the stop light when I wanted to change to 3rd gear my clutch pedal just didn't want to do anything. Long story short after the mechanic had a look to my dumb struck reaction it look like my clutch exploded to bits and pieces.
Hey I just bought my first 5-speed it's a GST turbo 97 Eclipse with a stage 2 clutch LOL I really appreciate this video thanks guys I don't know anything about a clutch and I'm not driving it right
Trying to decide on a new clutch for my 2004 wrx…part of me wants to go oem replacement but then I also was under the impression I would want something more aggressive than organic maybe Kevlar. Is this really that big of an issue?
stages 1-3 shouldn't be that big of a problem to drive daily i have a stage 1 south bend clutch in my 2g dsm and it's super easy to drive on, grabs the gears hard when you want it to and doesn't bitch. great clutch. if you have more than 300 hp and you want to give it the beans pretty often go for stage 2
It sucks, just like dailying a welded diff, but you dont build a car for everyone else anyway! I had a stage 4 explode on me before, clutches are labor intensive and definitely an overlooked portion of a build. But just as important is the flywheel weight; I have a BMW clutch rated for 800hp using a stock 40 lb dual mass flywheel. Havent used it yet but fairly curious on how it drives
Still killing it like the school car clutch! Can't wait to meet up when I get the chance to check out your school. Just got a brz ts the clutch compared to my 17 WRX STI is so so light. I'm curious if that big of a difference from driving 3 diffs or is it a flywheel weight. One more thing I'm looking into is if the cars have clutch petal assist springs and playing around with that, to help with back problems and the love of a manual transmission.
The lighter BRZ clutch feel also probably has a lot to do with the pressure plate, simply not requiring as much pressure on those spokes to disengage and engage the clutch. The STI ones are pretty heavy duty from the factory. One thing you can look at as well is the size (length/diameter) of the master cylinder... When you push the clutch, it presses the rod into the clutch master cylinder, which pressurizes the fluid that goes to the clutch. Moral of the story is that some of those master cylinders are much easier to press than others, we play this game a lot with brake master cylinders to get the pedal feel softer when we get rid of the vacuum assisted braking, you might be able play the same game and swap clutch masters to get a softer clutch pedal.
It's amazing how you can give all that info and yet still not explain what we wanted to learn. You guys only explained basic basics and generalizations.
Oh I don't know about that. After watching a few of their videos Wyatt says that he isn't into Subarus. Maybe we could get a look into what his go to car is.
What's the absolute best single clutch? Or is there a way to make a triple feel like a stock pedal? Someone should make an adjustable pulley clutch pedal assembly so you can adjust it as soft as you want. I claim the patent.
Thoughts and comments on what I may have done wrong like rpm or not shifting quick enough. Short version of my problem, I have a B5 s4 audi with various mods one of those being a state 3 clutch kit. The teeth on my pressure plate failed, but the rest of the clutch is fine and the workings of the pedal are fine. I drive aggressive yes, but no I'm not doing burnouts, drifts, or dragging. I've learned to get a smooth start and rarely get "chatter" and I don't slam shift between gears either. Yes I down shift but I understand matching rpms.... I know this is hard to diagnose with out being in the car... but I'm at a loss and welcome possible explanations as to why my pressure plate failed, due to my driving or manufacture defects? The clutch is out of warranty.
I think my moms 2004 350Z had a 3 stage clutch in it. We were told it was a two stage, so we thought it was. then it died. So we got it replaced, getting an after market two stage was cheaper than every other option. And the definitive two stage. Is soooooo much lighter than the last. Like. If you held the old clutch in too long, it would hurt your leg. The whole leg. When you would let the clutch out. It would literally throw your leg out. Starting was hell, even on flat. Changing gears was always kinda iffy, unless you were seriously giving it gas. Then it was perfect. Nice and smooth Because. The current clutch is definitely a two. There is noooo waaaay the last one was a two. It had to have been a three. Based on what it sounds like, do you think the first clutch was actually a two stage? Or could it have been a 3?
Hey I have been driving my first manual car now for half a year and I beat the crap out of the clutch because I didn't know how to drive manual properly. Since then I have adopted rev matching, smoother shifts, and smoother clutch work. However I am still iffy about up hill starts and if I am doing it correctly because I sometimes get the infamous roasted clutch smell when I try to hill start. Do you think you guys could make a video on common improper manual driving and show how to do it correctly?
For hill starts its the same concept as any other start. Spend the least amount of time possible riding the clutch. it will obviously be more than on the flats but still trying to get the car going at that near stall point. It is a harder skill to master but with time you will find that balance. There is always the trick of holding the car with the handbrake until you are ready to go.
Oskar Salminen sometimes the burnt clutch smell is inevitable, after you’ve already worn away a decent bit of material from slipping or dropping the clutch excessively, definitely speaking from experience.
It is really very easy - you just do the same launch as always, just maybe a bit longer hold or higher revs and normal hold. JUST with the difference, that when you launch yourself, really just a miliseconds before you quickly and completely release the handbrake. Maybe on the half way of releasing the clutch, depends on a car. Just a before/or right AT the grabbing point. Easy, really. Takes a bit of practice, to make this move automatized. : ) GL&HF
What do you guys think my clutch should feel like with this setup? Right now it's on the standard clutch which is solid with no springs in the clutch plate but does have a duel mass flywheel to dampen, I'm going to replace the duel mass with a new one and the clutch with a stage 3 racing paddle clutch which does have springs, in theory it should still be a pretty nice clutch pedal or am I wrong?
Most teams running BMWs use the 2WD variants, the e36 M3 or any of the generations of 325i or 325is are great... The AWD versions don't tend to hold up to the abuse without some serious (expensive) driveline upgrades. It could be done of course, it would just take a bunch more budget compared to building a bomber solid a 2WD car.
I bought my car I daily with a stage 3 clutch , And its a damn headache at times , it takes some time to get used to as it is a heavy clutch , then the 1st gear is very bouncy and noisy . Huy said it was an ETF stage 3 clutch , still cant find it online 🤔
Team O'Neil, you again helped me big time. I needed to know, how to launch my '09 WRX STI on Exedy stage 3, without slipping or damaging it. So, when higher revving, release it still smoothly, but quickly, right? Otherwise on cruising low rpm style, is it ok to keep the clutch in the biting point for a while, yes? I really need approval from you guys, to have peace in mind. *THANK YOUUU, YOU ROCK, Misters.*
I put a stage one , it states light racing clutch in my 350z came with a 18 pound flywheel , original was 28 pound,so far I've found on take off you do have to rev it just a tad more and kind of ride it at the top just for a second, no way around it,I'm not a mechanic but I think as long as you don't smell it should be good
Imma be doing a 4piston gsr head on a 800hp CSSblock ls block what kind of clutch u think I should use it will be a 600hp daily driver 850hp drag car Da integra
600 hp no joke you will need at least stage 3 for the street i wouldn't risk low balling it with a stage 2 clutch. definitely look into a twin disk that's what i'd do, twin disk the only thing that can handle that much power
@@caveman69_ After 9 years I'm rebuilding my DA integra from ground I want to do it right By the time I am done I will prob I have put 16000 into the car. I was looking at twin disk just trying to feel which one I should get
@@SoaringDragon716 i would not be scared to throw over a grand at a twin disk if you're building a car like that. drops in the bucket and if you do it once you probably won't have to do it ever again act, competition clutch, clutch masters, and exedy all have great twin disks that guys run on integras all the time. i'm always skeptical of buying something just for the brand name but they do have a great reputation.
Big question. I bought a 2013 wrx with a race clutch but have the stock clutch. Should I swap it back to the stock clutch or just keep the race clutch to save money
Just bought a stage one for my z comes with a 17 pound flywheel ,it states for street use to light track but garentee to be smooth and last longer than stock is it a good set up ,my z does have coil overs lowered headers straight pipe ypipe, ,I don't track it but it's my Saturday car not my daily
What kind of clutch allows for rapid fast shifts? I have the skill, my car is stock but it's like the stock pressure plate, clutch is limiting the speed of my shifts. I just want to be able to shift fast. I've driven plenty of race cars that I was able to shift insanely quick
I learn manual on my 99 mustang gt and the original owner put in an exedy stage 3 race clutch 🤣 and I put 30k miles on it the first year but jeez it was like 80 foot pounds to push it all the way in 😂
The previous owner of my car has a stage 3 clutch installed on a stock car🤦♂️ how many miles do you guys think i can get out of this? I dont drive hard i rarely/never smell burning. I just hope it last as long as the car, i kind of hate it but i cant afford a new one
Still not sure why anyone would need a race clutch for daily driving. If you can afford to build a race car and do race events, can't you easily afford a suitable street vehicle?
Weston Hettinger one of them says it somewhere in the video, spend as little time as you can engaging and disengaging the clutch, without dropping it violently
Yeah I have the stage 2 McLeod on my mustang and it’s a lot more firm and it’s super sensitive. Like when I accelerate it’s really hard to tell when I give it too much gas or if I’m riding it out too long is there any tips you guys can give on driving with a aftermarket clutch besides just saying the basic what not to do?? Please this would be a big help even just a comment would be nice before I have to drop my trans to change the clutch ! 😂
Hi team, wondering if you perhaps you deal and sell an R2 reiger suspension and ap brake setup. Looking to run an R2 setup on my st. An estimate would be appreciated. Thanks. Haven't been able you reach you guys through email.
They contract against the engine rotational force, it's like the clutch is spinning and bites the flywheel so the excess force goes to the springs and you feel less of the bite. Idk if that clears your doubts.
Yeah, I made that misstake. Got an Exedy Hyper Single clutch for my daily driver. Yes, everything else was modified, bushings, suspension, the lot. But it's just not doable. I had 2 options at a traffic light: Try to get away like a normal person, while hopping and bopping about and not only feel like an idiot but looking like one too, or the 2nd option, to just spin and burn away and let your tires deal with it. Which is obviously the best way mechanically to do it. However, youre gona get some strange stares, especially from law enforcement. but don't worry, you get to explain all that to the latter shortly after. I hands down guarante it.
I recently test drove a Civic Type R, the only modifications were an exhaust backbox and a racing clutch. It wasn't fun, and the alignment was way off, wouldn't be surprised if suspension damage was caused by the clutch transferring forces to all the suspension components.
@@jordanbell4420 huh never heard of that ever
Just ride the clutch
I got pulled over and tested for drink and driving the day i got my new heavy duty clutch in my forester, big oops
Think about the leg gains!
Engineering 101: Always make your failing point the safest and cheapest components to replace.
For example, if clutch fails, the worse that can happen is that the car won't be able to maintain speed and accelerate. If the metal driveshaft fails, there's a a chance of metal shrapnel causing even more damage to the rest of the car or if one is super unlucky, somehow wind up injuring the car's occupants.
4G12 or the clutch fly’s apart and cuts your feat off
Hmm so that's why Ford put the slave cylinder of the clutch on f150s in the *bell housing*
So engineering 101 goes for the cheapest part but doest teach about labor costs
@@Juan-dc6yf Mechanic detected
Woah this was so comprehensive without having any unecessary fluff. Great vid. I always wondered what the difference was between "burning" and "blowing up" a clutch
Ive been using a stock replacement clutch in my race car for years. Doing autocross, gymkhana, sprints etc. about 900kg race weight and 230 crank HP. It has plenty enough bite and not that long ago I inspected an its in as-new condition. very pleased. Something not covered in the video is shifting speed and how well each type of clutch can disengage. Would be worth mentioning that multi plate clutches can have the same grip with less pedal pressure, or more grip with the same pedal pressure. Ive driven a triple plate carbon clutch and it drove like a stock one but held over 1000hp.
Good video, to a point.
There are different friction materials available and that should be taken into account. For example, whilst an organic friction plate has less torque capacity it is much nicer to drive with and, with the correct selection of pressure plate spring, may have sufficient torque capacity for the application.
Some sintered/cera-metallic friction plates are available with sprung hubs, which can ease the loadings on transmissions and sometimes reduce NVH. It 'may'also help with the clutch engagement transition.
If you look at how the friction material is attached on a 'stock' 'plate, you will see the material isn't directly fitted to the hub/carrier, but is actually fitted to a sort of springy plate that holds the two halves apart. This is called a "Marcel spring" (look it up) and is used to give a progressive takeup - as the clutch engages the pressure on the friction surfaces increases progressively as the Marcel spring compresses.
There have been devices over the years to introduce a similar progressive effect with 'race' clutches using hydraulic release systems by fitting something (basically a spring loaded piston the fluid compresses) in the line that compresses under line pressure giving an artificially extended engagement range.
Looking for examples of the above, it seems some manufacturors (eg. Honda) incorporate a one-way restriction into the hydraulic line to dampen, and so reduce, the shock loadings that a sudden clutch pedal release/dump/sidestep would otherwise impart on the transmission.
Thanks boys. Definitely going to put a stock clutch back in my kids jetta. I appreciate your insight.
Thank you! Pretty informative and straight forward. I'm trying to get my first track car and you really help answer my questions! 😊🎉
Wyatt's demonstration of clutch slippers was awesome.
Thank you so much - just bought a Reliant Scimitar GTE with some kind of race clutch, and this video totally explains why it's so difficult to start off in a non-crazy manner! Mystery solved - thanks again, massively appreciated.
Also forgot to mention that, in most cases, when you modify your car and start to see higher horsepower/torque numbers you won’t be able to use your stock clutch and will have to upgrade to a racing clutch. I found this out the hard way lmao
what kind of torque difference are we talking about though?
You just touched on planned failure points at the end there, and that was actually the question I've been thinking of recently. What are the considerations when engineering a rally car that go into the relative strengths of different pieces? I could see ease of repair, cost, and threat to safety being big considerations that would be different for each team.
It's just moving down the line of power, so better clutch = the gears in the trans engaging harder then they are born to do.. driveshaft components that are stock are taking more torque if that holds up the next in line for big torque is the Diff if that holds up will the axle shafts which are driven by the diff take that extra grunt off the line.
If all goes well, how much will the weight of the tire rim package engage the road/ dirt. Also more combustion pressure on The front side of clutch engagement within the engine. So boost away if all goes well. Lol subi life = more axle shafts. Can't forget all the mounts mentioned, usually stock rubber or liquid filled style will take most of the burnt one or two launches.
Is that a new microphone??? The point about failure points was very interesting. Its the kind of insight that sets this channel apart from most others.
Btw you can still drive on a worn or broken clutch it will be hard to get in gear but you will be able to make it home doing 15-25 Mph while holding your gear as far as you can in first
i put a stage one south bend clutch clutch in my 2g eclipse and it works great on the street but i wouldn't want anything much higher than that, it grabs the gears pretty damn hard
I like this video series. Keep up the good work. And send me whatever coffee Wyatt drinks.
Zack Klapman I think he drinks burnt rubber and oversteer, I have tried it, and its potent as hell. 🤩
I’ve been racing on a stock clutch for years, but I’m also not making a ton of power lol. We launch, but nothing crazy, maybe 3000rpm
I used to daily a stage 6 clutch in my srt. It’s more fun than any other clutch I’ve had
How about a video on regular flywheels vs dual mass and racing flywheels.
I was considering installing a race clutch in my daily driver, thanks for the video guys now I know not to go ahead with that plan
I’m genuinely curious what you saw in this video to make you not want to go forward with getting a performance clutch for your daily driver?
I assumed that they were more durable and would last longer.
High quality content. To the bone and nicely explained. I was in doubt since long and you guys cleared my mind.
I learned a lot from this video, awesome job guys
Stage 4 clutch lots of fun in traffic.
Especially on the hill. lol
howdy from Sacramento! I'm not a car guy, but this was very informative. i appreciate the simple explanation and especially the visual examples.
Hola from redding
I have a corolla wagon that I have put about 8k miles on (6 months) a single plate 6 puck sprung hub race clutch (stage 3 miba) and chromoly flywheel. Polymounts etc all that. This winter I plan on pulling the trans to inspect for wear and swap the disc if necessary. Would you be interested in a clip of the parts as an example of what the wear and maintenance is on a race clutch?
Keep up the good work 👍
Deric Cribbs i’d be interested with info’s...
@@bigbee4774 I'll get the pictures of it. Where would be the best place to post pictures and info. don't have any video of the process
I daily a race clutch. Love it every day.
Mr. Buddha
Same. It takes a little bit to get used to but it’s not too bad
Noobie driver here who's definitely gotten into the slipping habit of using the clutch. What should I be doing with the clutch then? If I'm not supposed to slip it, but also not supposed to just pop the clutch up, what's the inbetween?
There's always going to be *a little* slip when you let the clutch out, especially in 1st gear, and especially on a hill or in deep sand or something. The clutch is a "wear item" no matter what you do, it's designed to be eventually consumed just like brake pads are... BUT if you're conscious of slipping the clutch and trying to minimize that as much as you can, you can get it to last A LOT longer than the average person. The fact you're thinking about it and trying to get better means you're already way ahead of most people on the road.
just drive an automatic. these things doesnt have clutch ;)
Nemez lol have fun blowing it up with more power and dropping $8k fixing it. With a clutch you can get a stronger one installed for $1500 or less.
@@cameronbeyer7687 There's more to a transmission than the clutch lmao....
D R no.... really? You don’t need to touch your trans other then your clutch unless you shift really harsh for a manual. On a stock manual trans the only thing you actually need to touch when you add power is the clutch
I bought this car built though as ARP head studs the Pistons are bored to 10 or 550 lb injectors it was rebuilt in the transmission was rebuilt for the track I guess now it's in my garage don't think I can everyday drive it
You can, don't believe all the fear. Lot's of people daily drive full racing clutch and transmissions. It's different and a lot of fun to many
Thank you, this video helped a lot. I need to replace my clutch and this answered a lot of questions.
Thanks no race clutch for me :) keep up the video's
A twin disc clutch is the best of both worlds as long as you can tolerate the noise IMO. However “most” people don’t need a performance clutch in a daily driver.
Yeah I'm the dropper for sure. I purposely get stage 4's solely for the purpose of burning and peeling out. Made my 4 banger run smoother with the heavy clutch but feels diff in the V6 and V8. Don't drive a 4 stage in downtown San Fran, especially on a rainy day!!!
The weird spring is called a Diaphragm Spring.
Stefan Logan Aaah. Now my past life makes sense.
Thanks.
Also the flat springs between the clutch faces is called a marcel spring.
I could use a bit of your insight on my clutch...
As far as not rev'ing too much what leaving a stop sign: standing start, traffic light, etc- is it normal for turbo cars like a GTI, WRX, to have enough lag during taking off which makes you have to blip the gas a bit more as you release the clutch?
I have a MINI R60 (first turbo car I've ever owned) and first gear has been a PITA to get the hang of taking off from standing stops. When I first got the car and tried driving it like a normally aspirated manual transmission, the car would just about stall as I let out the clutch. I found that if I blipped the gas a bit more as the clutch pedal was 2/3 of the way out, kept the revs up that it didn't bog down.
Crazy, as I've driven manuals all my life but this clutch is kicking my butt. The clutch isn't slipping but is chattering during take-offs. :(
Thanks in advance for the advice!
Hi Will, all cars will be different as you are saying. Especially AWD cars that take more effort to get all of that driveline moving. A N/A car will certainly have more low end TQ to get you moving with minimal clutch effort as well. Daily a WRX here and there is a difference in how much clutch slip I give for when I am easing off the line and when i want to get going faster.
Again each car is different and you will have to find that happy spot for each one.
Thanks for clarifying... just making sure I don't have something odd, going on with the car.
Another thing manufacturers have been doing is making 1st gear a lot taller than it often used to be, a lot of cars 1st was a "granny gear" that was only good up to 15mph or so but was basically impossible to stall out and great for starting on hills etc.
Then the 0-60 times in magazines became more important for sales, shifting takes time, now your 1st gear is good to 40mph or more sometimes... but starting on a hill makes you rev the motor and slip the clutch to avoid stalling out.
One thing you can do is mount a smaller diameter tire (if that's an option) which will instantly lower your gearing across the board. That's nice especially in the winter when you want the low-speed torque. If it's going to be a race car you might want to look at swapping transmissions.
One last thought is rotating mass, the actual weight of your wheels and tires to get them turning. Lightweight wheels might actually make a noticeable difference.
Stock clutch vs race clutch starts at 5:28
Had my clutch explode on my f250 i shifted from 4th to 3rd was going about 35 slowing down to 25 found out the guy that put it in didnt bolt the pressure plate up right got the another clutch for free
I bought a mustang gt and it has a stage 2 race clutch and I everyday drive it. It's very stiff but I enjoy it. I take care of it and I have family mechanics and I have a warranty that covers most of it except for the clutch which is okay.
I went from an organic single disk to an organic dual disk and the dual disc destroys the single in street drivability. Pedal is super light and now the shifter feels much easier to shift.
Brilliant video, very informative thank you
I had a bmw 318 and the clutch burned out on wide open, then a while later I pressed the clutch and it was welded together!
Driving a race clutch, 6 pads with a spring centre. Works quite good on the streets.
Is it bouncy in 1st
Centerforce clutch disk broke on my truck. The thing that holds the springs broke off and wedged the spring between the disk and pressure plate. Pedal wont go depress down and its stuck. I had to drive home and shifted without stepping clutch pedal.
I bought a second hand ford focus mk2.5 last year, I had the car for less than a week and my clutch cave in on me. I pulled away from the stop light when I wanted to change to 3rd gear my clutch pedal just didn't want to do anything. Long story short after the mechanic had a look to my dumb struck reaction it look like my clutch exploded to bits and pieces.
Hey I just bought my first 5-speed it's a GST turbo 97 Eclipse with a stage 2 clutch LOL I really appreciate this video thanks guys I don't know anything about a clutch and I'm not driving it right
Trying to decide on a new clutch for my 2004 wrx…part of me wants to go oem replacement but then I also was under the impression I would want something more aggressive than organic maybe Kevlar. Is this really that big of an issue?
What about a stage 2 for daily driving 🤔
stages 1-3 shouldn't be that big of a problem to drive daily i have a stage 1 south bend clutch in my 2g dsm and it's super easy to drive on, grabs the gears hard when you want it to and doesn't bitch. great clutch. if you have more than 300 hp and you want to give it the beans pretty often go for stage 2
Sauce Dog stage 1 should be enough for my 2003 Mustang GT? It has modded gears. Maybe makes 270 hp?
@@angelgjr1999 i think it should. Look up some forums. They'll have that answer.
not too grippy, not too slippy...the goldilocks clutch
It sucks, just like dailying a welded diff, but you dont build a car for everyone else anyway! I had a stage 4 explode on me before, clutches are labor intensive and definitely an overlooked portion of a build. But just as important is the flywheel weight; I have a BMW clutch rated for 800hp using a stock 40 lb dual mass flywheel. Havent used it yet but fairly curious on how it drives
Great video guys! Wish it would have been sooner lol can you guys do one on ECUs wireing harnesses and tuning?
Which one is less pedal effort, it feels like my knee is going to pop out of socket?
Still killing it like the school car clutch!
Can't wait to meet up when I get the chance to check out your school.
Just got a brz ts the clutch compared to my 17 WRX STI is so so light. I'm curious if that big of a difference from driving 3 diffs or is it a flywheel weight.
One more thing I'm looking into is if the cars have clutch petal assist springs and playing around with that, to help with back problems and the love of a manual transmission.
The lighter BRZ clutch feel also probably has a lot to do with the pressure plate, simply not requiring as much pressure on those spokes to disengage and engage the clutch. The STI ones are pretty heavy duty from the factory.
One thing you can look at as well is the size (length/diameter) of the master cylinder... When you push the clutch, it presses the rod into the clutch master cylinder, which pressurizes the fluid that goes to the clutch. Moral of the story is that some of those master cylinders are much easier to press than others, we play this game a lot with brake master cylinders to get the pedal feel softer when we get rid of the vacuum assisted braking, you might be able play the same game and swap clutch masters to get a softer clutch pedal.
It's amazing how you can give all that info and yet still not explain what we wanted to learn. You guys only explained basic basics and generalizations.
Hi team O'Neil would u ever do a comparison between each generation of Evo and sti
Oh I don't know about that. After watching a few of their videos Wyatt says that he isn't into Subarus. Maybe we could get a look into what his go to car is.
@@blueridgewarden2838 most of the videos seem to have fiesta parts. Maybe that against the evo
What’s better for bumper to bumper Cali traffic (15 civic si fbo) stage 2-3…?
What's the absolute best single clutch? Or is there a way to make a triple feel like a stock pedal? Someone should make an adjustable pulley clutch pedal assembly so you can adjust it as soft as you want. I claim the patent.
clutch slipper and clutch dumper, both is me😂
Thoughts and comments on what I may have done wrong like rpm or not shifting quick enough. Short version of my problem, I have a B5 s4 audi with various mods one of those being a state 3 clutch kit. The teeth on my pressure plate failed, but the rest of the clutch is fine and the workings of the pedal are fine. I drive aggressive yes, but no I'm not doing burnouts, drifts, or dragging. I've learned to get a smooth start and rarely get "chatter" and I don't slam shift between gears either. Yes I down shift but I understand matching rpms.... I know this is hard to diagnose with out being in the car... but I'm at a loss and welcome possible explanations as to why my pressure plate failed, due to my driving or manufacture defects? The clutch is out of warranty.
product defected. mabe
I think my moms 2004 350Z had a 3 stage clutch in it.
We were told it was a two stage, so we thought it was. then it died.
So we got it replaced, getting an after market two stage was cheaper than every other option.
And the definitive two stage. Is soooooo much lighter than the last.
Like. If you held the old clutch in too long, it would hurt your leg. The whole leg. When you would let the clutch out. It would literally throw your leg out.
Starting was hell, even on flat. Changing gears was always kinda iffy, unless you were seriously giving it gas. Then it was perfect. Nice and smooth
Because. The current clutch is definitely a two.
There is noooo waaaay the last one was a two. It had to have been a three.
Based on what it sounds like, do you think the first clutch was actually a two stage? Or could it have been a 3?
howd you start on hills haha
The two discs on either sides of my clutch fell off of the center part and that didn’t sound good
Hey I have been driving my first manual car now for half a year and I beat the crap out of the clutch because I didn't know how to drive manual properly. Since then I have adopted rev matching, smoother shifts, and smoother clutch work. However I am still iffy about up hill starts and if I am doing it correctly because I sometimes get the infamous roasted clutch smell when I try to hill start. Do you think you guys could make a video on common improper manual driving and show how to do it correctly?
For hill starts its the same concept as any other start. Spend the least amount of time possible riding the clutch. it will obviously be more than on the flats but still trying to get the car going at that near stall point. It is a harder skill to master but with time you will find that balance.
There is always the trick of holding the car with the handbrake until you are ready to go.
Only with handbrake man, use always handbrake!
Oskar Salminen sometimes the burnt clutch smell is inevitable, after you’ve already worn away a decent bit of material from slipping or dropping the clutch excessively, definitely speaking from experience.
It is really very easy - you just do the same launch as always, just maybe a bit longer hold or higher revs and normal hold. JUST with the difference, that when you launch yourself, really just a miliseconds before you quickly and completely release the handbrake.
Maybe on the half way of releasing the clutch, depends on a car. Just a before/or right AT the grabbing point. Easy, really. Takes a bit of practice, to make this move automatized. : ) GL&HF
What do you guys think my clutch should feel like with this setup? Right now it's on the standard clutch which is solid with no springs in the clutch plate but does have a duel mass flywheel to dampen, I'm going to replace the duel mass with a new one and the clutch with a stage 3 racing paddle clutch which does have springs, in theory it should still be a pretty nice clutch pedal or am I wrong?
deinstall clutch = max torque ^^
Does a carbon metallic clutch handles heat better than organic ?
7:32 well, at least I won't have that problem.
Would my 01 325xi be a good rally car 🤔🤔🤔
Most teams running BMWs use the 2WD variants, the e36 M3 or any of the generations of 325i or 325is are great... The AWD versions don't tend to hold up to the abuse without some serious (expensive) driveline upgrades. It could be done of course, it would just take a bunch more budget compared to building a bomber solid a 2WD car.
I have a 2012 lancer my friend said to get stage 3 clutch I want to know what you guys think
Lancer stage 3 dont do it unless your pushing over 400hp or something like that
Does this mean that you can't daily an impreza wrx?
dude on the right is the brains
I bought my car I daily with a stage 3 clutch , And its a damn headache at times , it takes some time to get used to as it is a heavy clutch , then the 1st gear is very bouncy and noisy . Huy said it was an ETF stage 3 clutch , still cant find it online 🤔
Team O'Neil, you again helped me big time. I needed to know, how to launch my '09 WRX STI on Exedy stage 3, without slipping or damaging it. So, when higher revving, release it still smoothly, but quickly, right?
Otherwise on cruising low rpm style, is it ok to keep the clutch in the biting point for a while, yes? I really need approval from you guys, to have peace in mind.
*THANK YOUUU, YOU ROCK, Misters.*
I put a stage one , it states light racing clutch in my 350z came with a 18 pound flywheel , original was 28 pound,so far I've found on take off you do have to rev it just a tad more and kind of ride it at the top just for a second, no way around it,I'm not a mechanic but I think as long as you don't smell it should be good
We have a Sachs 4 puck unsprung clutch for a 2 ton 4x4 (99% road driving). For 400hp/500ft lbs of torque would this be a nightmare setup? Thanks
Imma be doing a 4piston gsr head on a 800hp CSSblock ls block what kind of clutch u think I should use it will be a 600hp daily driver 850hp drag car Da integra
600 hp no joke you will need at least stage 3 for the street i wouldn't risk low balling it with a stage 2 clutch. definitely look into a twin disk that's what i'd do, twin disk the only thing that can handle that much power
@@caveman69_ After 9 years I'm rebuilding my DA integra from ground I want to do it right By the time I am done I will prob I have put 16000 into the car. I was looking at twin disk just trying to feel which one I should get
@@SoaringDragon716 i would not be scared to throw over a grand at a twin disk if you're building a car like that. drops in the bucket and if you do it once you probably won't have to do it ever again
act, competition clutch, clutch masters, and exedy all have great twin disks that guys run on integras all the time. i'm always skeptical of buying something just for the brand name but they do have a great reputation.
Big question. I bought a 2013 wrx with a race clutch but have the stock clutch. Should I swap it back to the stock clutch or just keep the race clutch to save money
Just bought a stage one for my z comes with a 17 pound flywheel ,it states for street use to light track but garentee to be smooth and last longer than stock is it a good set up ,my z does have coil overs lowered headers straight pipe ypipe, ,I don't track it but it's my Saturday car not my daily
What kind of clutch allows for rapid fast shifts? I have the skill, my car is stock but it's like the stock pressure plate, clutch is limiting the speed of my shifts. I just want to be able to shift fast. I've driven plenty of race cars that I was able to shift insanely quick
What makes a racing clutch better for racing than a daily driving clutch?
Racing clutch is very strong but not smooth at all.
Normal clutch is smooth and easy but fairly weak.
I learn manual on my 99 mustang gt and the original owner put in an exedy stage 3 race clutch 🤣 and I put 30k miles on it the first year but jeez it was like 80 foot pounds to push it all the way in 😂
The previous owner of my car has a stage 3 clutch installed on a stock car🤦♂️ how many miles do you guys think i can get out of this? I dont drive hard i rarely/never smell burning. I just hope it last as long as the car, i kind of hate it but i cant afford a new one
Awesome video!
What about carbon fiber clutches?
Still not sure why anyone would need a race clutch for daily driving. If you can afford to build a race car and do race events, can't you easily afford a suitable street vehicle?
I'm obsessed with making stuff last forever. What's the best option to make that happen?
Weston Hettinger one of them says it somewhere in the video, spend as little time as you can engaging and disengaging the clutch, without dropping it violently
Yeah I have the stage 2 McLeod on my mustang and it’s a lot more firm and it’s super sensitive. Like when I accelerate it’s really hard to tell when I give it too much gas or if I’m riding it out too long is there any tips you guys can give on driving with a aftermarket clutch besides just saying the basic what not to do?? Please this would be a big help even just a comment would be nice before I have to drop my trans to change the clutch ! 😂
I drove 15 miles with no clutch just can’t stop
I loved the outro lol
What about a street racing clutch???
Did the student also break off those pucks
How do I sign up to your rally school?
I mean I daily drive a twin disc with a 12 lbs flywheel through Atlanta rush hour,I don't know what y'all are talking about.... 😂
Looks like it's time to get a second car
how is it to start on hills?
But shouldn't you explain that if you've built a higher HP engine you need a stronger Clutch! Thanks
The destroyed clutch is from a chevy
not to mention the hydraulic system & clutch pedal assembly is over burdened !
Serious question ....
What is this "organic material" he keeps talking about ?
It's mostly human bones
@@SparxI0 lol
Hi team, wondering if you perhaps you deal and sell an R2 reiger suspension and ap brake setup. Looking to run an R2 setup on my st. An estimate would be appreciated. Thanks. Haven't been able you reach you guys through email.
We can definitely do that, shoot an email right to info@teamoneil.com and I'll make sure someone gets right back to you, sorry for the inconvenience!
What kind of flywheels are you using to replace the stock dual mass ? I have a 1.0 ecoboost that i would like to use a lighter flywheel on.
We get them from M-Sport in the UK. www.m-sport.co.uk
im the clutch slipper smh
Hey did Evan beckerman gained weight? And mickey andrade loss some weight too? Damn.
How do the springs on the disk work? What are they contracting against?
They contract against the engine rotational force, it's like the clutch is spinning and bites the flywheel so the excess force goes to the springs and you feel less of the bite. Idk if that clears your doubts.
What about stage 2 clutch for street driving? Would it be as bad as the stage 3 or will it be more like the stock clutch?
stage 2 would be no problem on the street stage 3 and 4 start to get a little more serious
I have a sti and my clutch is slipping,I’m thinking about a performance clutch and this is my daily will it be a good choice, act is the brand
Just call and ask ACT
Thanks guys.