Firefly had every trope mixed perfectly into one TV show. All with a novel spin. I can’t help but feel that old rage every time I see some bit of the lost greatness.
I've come to look at it like "You have a great series with almost universally great episodes that caps off with a multi-million dollar cinematic finale." Who knows what would happened if it went 3, 4, 5 more seasons. We could have had the greatest thing ever, or we might have ended up going "Well season 3 was pretty bad but 4 is better." It ended up being pure gold with a beginning, middle and most shockingly of all, end.
Yeah but with all the joss whedon shit thats come out within the last few years take solace that people weren't abused by him on this series longer.. thats the positive i cling too
@@mosermi443 Honestly it's all overhyped BS as far as I can tell. All the great directors were like that back in the day. I am shocked James Cameron hasn't been retroactively cancelled, he would routinely make cast and crew go into breakdowns and leave the set crying. He'd demand 400% from everyone, including himself, at his prime.
Mal is a killer, and in a fair duel a seasoned killer has at least a fighting chance against someone who just takes on fighting as a hobby. Also, having fenced for years i could see the clear skill disparity in the fight and attributed it to time spent practicing with the stunt team. For it to be called out the way it was in the episode I absolutely loved it. Mal was swinging that delicate little small sword like it was a damn claymore.
Agreed, but he makes a miraculous escape. He's not seen anywhere in Season 3 but does return in the Season 4 finale and is a main antagonist in Season 5. I like that universe, 8 wonderful seasons of Firefly, and no COVID.
I believe season one was all about setting up the future of firefly with villains and heroes to go up against. To bad the verse never got to be fully realized.
I like the part where she is telling him that it "takes less than a pound of to break human skin" and I'm like "is not a unit of pressure damn it!!!!!!"
@@alexanderbyrne9684 That is from Doctor Who. And I would say a perfect quote. It says a good man, not lawful. A good man has a moral compass to guide him, no need for rules.
Disagree, I'd say Mal is a genuinely good man. He only has one rule - if you're on his crew, you're under his protection. He'll have your back if you have his. That's the mark of a great man. Well, maybe an alright one.
This is cut just short of that amazing monologue from Inara about the black mark. Would really love a clip of that monologue because her strength in that moment was so inspiring.
This reminds me of those martial art tropes where the highborn is taught to fight by masters but spars with opponents who hold back and let them win intentionally, and the lowborn who had to fight brutally for their life.
I'm not sure if this is an example of that trope. Atherton is genuinely a brilliant fighter and beats Mal 9 times out of 10. Mal only won because Atherton was distracted by Inara.
This episode of Firefly was also one of the very best at addressing the class snobbery and entitlement in a very creative way. Both Larry Drake (RIP) and Larry Pennell (RIP) both support this episode as genuinely honorable individuals in contrast to the many other examples of narrow and entitled gentiles. The smoke effects during the fight are (I believe) a homage to Ridley Scott's first Feature Film "The Duellists" (1977) which is one of the finest examples of Editing and Cinematography to ever grace the screen. It was all but eclipsed that year by "Star Wars" but it did win "Best Debut Film" at Cannes (1977). It remains a masterwork, however.
Got to talk with him on FB once, he said he wished they could have actually filmed the fight between his character and Sam Elliot's character in Roadhouse.
Never seen the show but admittedly, this duel doesn't feel awkward to watch. It actually feels like they are fighting as opposed to just tapping blades
Fair warning, if you watch the show and the movie, you may feel some of the rage us fans back in the day felt when the dipshits at Fox cancelled it to make way for "reality" TV shows.
I'm a swordsman, not a cat, I don't toy with my opponent but I would've allowed Mal to concede at first blood. That would at least have been a more realistic end to this scene.
@@ninjabearpress2574 Not entirely sure what you mean by "more realistic", given this is a sub-culture on another planet whose rules of decorum are not the same as ours... But either way, that wouldn't have been in line with Atherton's character; he's spoilt, petty and vindictive. He has the skill of an expert swordsman, but none of the honor.
@Thescott16 I've seen the entire episode and no doubt, the supposed gentleman deserved to lose. My first Maestro used to say honor makes your blade light and quick.
Nah, a warrior doesn't let himself be injured needlessly since he never knows when the next fight is coming. Mal was never a warrior or an expert swordsman, he was always just a man doing his best to help his friends and willing to make great personal sacrifices for them if necessary.
@@genericpersonx333 Mal and Zoe were both warriors. They were soldiers on the losing side of a big war. I imagine they were both trained in many types of weapons combat, but swordsmanship would not be near the top of the list. I wonder if Mal did know how to use a sword, but pretended not to, just to get some "alone time " with Inara. Ha-Ha! The other people on the ship were not his friends. They were his "crew". Just like back during the war days, He would put his life on the line for them, like family.
Generally in duel the weapons are supposed to be essentially identical. I’ll never get over the disparity of the big basket hilt rapier and the smallsword Mal was using.
Yeah, me either, but if I remember this episode correctly Mal chose his weapon, his opponent obviously chose the weapon with which he was most comfortable.
@@ninjabearpress2574 Depending on culture it was generally the challenger that was supposed to supply the weapons for a duel. If it had to be swords I would have thought outside the box and quick had some giant 40 pound swords made up as to totally negate any advantage a more experienced opponent could have.
@@matts1166 I held four feet of two inch lead pipe full of sand at shoulder height until shidoshi said I could put it down, then my classmates and I sparred with said plumbing. After many hours of such training, I'm sure I could handle a forty pound sword.
Atherton let his guard down, Mal never stopped fighting. It’s a cheeky win for sure, I’m biased towards Mal for sure; but all’s fair in war, no? Victory by any means, is still victory.
The hard part is getting it right under pressure, that much I'd agree with. I haven't tried sword throwing, but I have some decent experience with knife throwing (I have a video on my channel where I get my knife out of the sheathe and into a target about 8-10 feet away in just under 4 seconds). At the super close range they're at, that would be an appropriate distance, if you're to make such a throw. I just gotta say, the maneuver would be easier to get down than learning to sword fight well. The kick, grab, throw you could probably get in about an afternoon of practice (with a dull sword, if you're wise). Takes a lot longer to learn sword fighting.
The difference is that Mal probably had practiced throwing knives or something similar (as Jayne is also shown to be able to do in another episode) and was coordinated enough for the technique to transfer. Whereas rapier fencing was entirely foreign to him.
Oh, mother of mercy, with Pistols Mal would've blown Atherton away, to the moon and back. I always think of that quick-draw headshot in the first episode. Mal doesn't even stop his stride when he hits a bull's eye (his eye) on the agent agent from over Simon's shoulder.
There are 3 types of fencers. 1) "Food" 2) What "Food" Eats and 3) What eats "Food". I tell my students to never play with their food. It always ends bad.
2:20 is also great proof of Atherton’s total lack of knowledge of fighting. First off, he gets impaled and takes the weapon out - meaning he’s going to bleed more, and possibly get infected since the wound is exposed. Not smart, but understandable as pulling the weapon out of his body would mean he HAD a weapon. But then he just…throws the sword away?? He had a weapon in hand and tossed it aside because it had his blood on it?? Doesn’t matter if it’s squicky or if you’re in pain, don’t give up your last means of defense.
Man, I could be an elderly man on my death bed some day, and still won't forgive Fox for cancelling Firefly just to put some shitty "reality TV" shows in its place. Same with them cancelling Dark Angel around the same time. No longer seeing young Jessica Alba in tight leather pants was very disappointing for teen-me.
I think I know a bit about sword combat but tbh apart from the silly behind the back stab (it’s not that easy to stab through shirt and skin) nothing to crazy happened. The broken sword however... the fuck is it made of glass? You either tempered that so poorly it would have broken long before he stepped on it, or it’s a bunch of bullshit. Not to mention the guard on “bad guy’s” award must be soooo heavy and it would get in the way of anything you do that isn’t at arms length.
@Joeseph Smith I don't know where you're getting that from - in fact duels were not "no holds barred" - but I'll pretend you're right. That's clearly *between combatants* only. Or do you think a friend could walk in and grab your opponent while you stab him? EDIT: Typo
@Joeseph Smith Insult me all you like - you're ignoring what I'm saying because you can't justify what you're saying. And that's blatantly obvious to anyone with a brain.
@@bugwar5545 And how at least one (maybe more? not sure) of the original cast have passed away, not to mention how much they've aged. Sadly, it's gone and it won't be coming back, best thing to do is just to enjoy what we do have rather than pining for more.
Er, very similar cinematography AND story ua-cam.com/video/Td_n2wxdkW0/v-deo.htmlm40s. Joss made a play on the historical reference 'Matthews vs Sheridan'
to all these pretentious folks in the comments talking about honor and how this was a cheap shot or they were cheating, or whatever your problem is, you do remember that mal does crime for a living and is a space pirate, right? And Inara helps in those endeavors, she's as much a pirate as he is. Also, when your crush is about to die at the hands of a misogynistic sack of shit, you'd intervene too. Also, this takes 500 years in the future, you don't know what duel rules are like there.
Slight spoiler: I always wondered why was this not the account for his nerve cluster being removed? It seems like that would of been a more significant reference to the mythos.
I saw this before Serenity and was expecting Mal to just let the dude stab him, so he could grab the hilt keeping the saber in his gut while he progresses to lop the dude's head off.
Always thought this was one of the weakest scenes of the series. Relying on someone's overconfidence/arrogance to get out of an unwindable situation wasnt Whedon like. I guess giving Mal an unknown background in fencing or something was too pat as well. Granted it was a tough set up to get out of naturally.
I would not say its the weakest. The guy lost because he arrogant bastard and over confidant then made a mistake. Mal got himself into trouble and nearly gets killed because he got a bit reckless, overconfident, and ignorant of what he was getting into. Afterwards I think Mal was a bit humbled that well maybe doing what he did was stupid. That sort of why I like the scene. I thought that was what Whedon was going after it sort of taught Mal a lesson.
It's not even arrogance that caused him to lose. It was the fact that he took hit eye off the opponent for just a split second in his greed and lust for Inara. In combat, you never take your eye off the opponent until they are down (read dead or dismembered)
or maybe Mal had a plan. Relying on Atherton's arrogance to give him an advantage. Mal knew he could never beat Atherton in a straight swordsmanship contest, so he had to open himself up to a painful but non lethal hit, which provided him with the opportunity to get in close.
Kinda feel like this was cheap, even by Firefly's standards. Anara outright interupted the duel and distracted one of the combatants. You'd THINK that the duel would be invalidated on the spot, or that a "designated second" would cut Mal down immediately for taking advantage of an observer interfering. Would have been better IMO if Mal had just "fought dirty", tossed pocket sand in the guy's eyes or something once forced into this position and wrestled the sword away. Demonstrating gentleman versus warrior tactics in combat.
@@jetsin-actual Problem wasn't whether Mal yielded (he obviously didn't). The problem was Anara, an observer, directly inserted herself into the conflict and distracted one of the combatants. That makes this less about "honorable skill versus pragmatic soldiering" and more about the main character needing cheap shots to win. I mean hell, why not sneak a blaster in and shoot the kid if cheating means absolutely nothing to you?
@@tnerbtnerb5136 Mal did get Zoe to stand behind and hit that guy in the face with the mare's leg. Moral of the story: Use your pretty female friends for the distraction or the final hit. A win is always more shiny than a loss. Jayne is a girls name but Jayne is not pretty. Jayne is also a man and grenades are never useful in close quarters.
Works within the context of the episode. Mal doesn't really know how to use a sword and Atherton is just toying with him the whole time, intentionally not going all out. It's bad fighting but good storytelling via fighting.
This is actually the scene that convinced me how mind-numbingly stupid Firefly really is. btw: As a swordsman of some decades experience, I can tell you for a fact Mal would've been given a chance to concede at first blood, an honorable and realistic end to the duel.
@@ghuegel I've never seen the show. To be honest, never even heard of it. But this representation of a duel was utterly ridiculous to anyone who has ever studied that historical area. I wouldn't call the show stupid (And I'm pretty sure you are responding to the other comment, not mine) but I figured I'd explain why I look at it the way I do. This was more of a brawl made to look like a duel with some "rules" thrown in to make it look like an affair of honor. The one guy (the one who ultimately "wins") was beaten. Fairly and certainly. I know he didn't yield but conventions of the day were that you would accord yourself a gentleman. The means he used to win were as ungentlemanly as they were dishonorable. Even his friends would've turned their backs on him if this were the "honorable" affair the show makes it out to be. Your account of yourself in a duel was, often times, more important than if you actually won. Not all duels were fought to the death but I grant that I didn't see the scenes leading up to this fight so I don't know what understanding was met (which would've been settled by the seconds). Don't get me wrong, if it's a brawl or a fight or a personal "duel" then don't invite seconds. If the behavior of the participants isn't a concern, then there is no need for seconds, a duel "administrator", and all the witnesses. I don't know if the show is stupid or not, but this dueling scene definitely was. It just seems "forced" and plays to the ignorance of an audience who thinks they know what "dueling rules" are. In reality there were MANY different conventions for fighting duels, and this scene just seems to borrow from a lot of them and throwing them together in order to make the audience identify with what they perceive dueling was supposed to be like. Like I said, this isn't a challenge to you, just figured in the spirit of friendly debate and/or banter I'd throw in my thoughts. But hey, I'm the guy who loved the very short run "Jack of All Trades" and that was complete Hollywood fighting, but it was a comedy and it was fun to watch.
Dave Power #6 you're obviously a fan, I won't try to dissuade you from it. I personally find Firefly and the movie Serenity lacking, but this scene is an utter affront to my experience.
Darskul I can’t tell if you’re being serious. Mal is not a swordsman. He’s a gunslinger. This was a very accurate depiction of what someone who’s never fenced would look like.
Mal knows how to shoot and take a punch. All the sword skills he had were a single ineffectual lesson (he got his ass whipped a lot) by a high class escort last night (so I'm doubtful she was above average), after an already eventful day. I'm rather grateful its not another story where with briefest effort a complete amateur beats anyone with skill and experience just because they are a main character, like in 'The Knight's Tale'. Mal flailed around to try and stay alive, but eventually won because he's a brute and a cheat.
@@FlamesAndShadows I had a few fencing lessons years ago, haven't done anything for a while but I would still be a more graceful swordfighter than Malcolm was.
Sorta the point, I reckon. They joke earlier in the episode that Mal barely knows which end of the sword to hold, so he probably wouldn't be much good in a proper swordfight.
![River Tam's Best Moments [Firefly]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sLzwXbVXuG4/mqdefault.jpg)
Firefly had every trope mixed perfectly into one TV show. All with a novel spin. I can’t help but feel that old rage every time I see some bit of the lost greatness.
I've come to look at it like "You have a great series with almost universally great episodes that caps off with a multi-million dollar cinematic finale." Who knows what would happened if it went 3, 4, 5 more seasons. We could have had the greatest thing ever, or we might have ended up going "Well season 3 was pretty bad but 4 is better." It ended up being pure gold with a beginning, middle and most shockingly of all, end.
You know they are going to reboot it eventually and its not going to be anywhere near as good as the original
Remake's already being discussed at the studio level apparently.
Yeah but with all the joss whedon shit thats come out within the last few years take solace that people weren't abused by him on this series longer.. thats the positive i cling too
@@mosermi443 Honestly it's all overhyped BS as far as I can tell. All the great directors were like that back in the day. I am shocked James Cameron hasn't been retroactively cancelled, he would routinely make cast and crew go into breakdowns and leave the set crying. He'd demand 400% from everyone, including himself, at his prime.
2:55
"Mercy is the mark of a great man."
*stabs*
"... guess I am just a good man."
*stabs*
"Well, I am alright."
Yes, that's what happened in the scene.
thanks for the transcription
And I appreciate the sarcasm.
Best lines in a show full of great lines!
Good line👍
Mal is a killer, and in a fair duel a seasoned killer has at least a fighting chance against someone who just takes on fighting as a hobby.
Also, having fenced for years i could see the clear skill disparity in the fight and attributed it to time spent practicing with the stunt team. For it to be called out the way it was in the episode I absolutely loved it. Mal was swinging that delicate little small sword like it was a damn claymore.
Atherton could have been a great reoccurring villain in season 2 - oh no, I’m doing it again 😭
Agreed, but he makes a miraculous escape. He's not seen anywhere in Season 3 but does return in the Season 4 finale and is a main antagonist in Season 5. I like that universe, 8 wonderful seasons of Firefly, and no COVID.
I think you'll understand when I give you a well deserved middle finger.
I believe season one was all about setting up the future of firefly with villains and heroes to go up against. To bad the verse never got to be fully realized.
Loved the part where he asked Mail, “Why’d you do that?”
Mail responded, “Because it was funny.”
I loved the part where Mail went postal!
"Yeah I know but it was funny"
if you are going to quote dialog, at least bother to get it right.
I loved the part where Mail was addressed, but he really delivered! The return wasn't so good.
I like the part where she is telling him that it "takes less than a pound of to break human skin" and I'm like "is not a unit of pressure damn it!!!!!!"
I feel like "Good men don't need rules...Today is not the day to find out why I have so many..." would apply well to Mal.
Being a good man without rules?
@@alexanderbyrne9684 That is from Doctor Who. And I would say a perfect quote. It says a good man, not lawful. A good man has a moral compass to guide him, no need for rules.
@@CemKalyoncu I know, I was just clarifying your point.
Disagree, I'd say Mal is a genuinely good man. He only has one rule - if you're on his crew, you're under his protection. He'll have your back if you have his. That's the mark of a great man. Well, maybe an alright one.
@@Dracinard He certainly is a good man, just broken.
Yeah, Mal, you’re alright.
There's a world of difference between a great fighter and a great killer.
Thank You, so many miss this point 👊
Thanks to all the discount Sun Tzus in the comment section.
No, but I've been a swordsman for over 50 years now.
@@ninjabearpress2574 lol I actually agreed with your comment but if you think the shoe fits
@Michael Sure, how about this one?
ua-cam.com/video/Beu_X8lklG8/v-deo.html
You're welcome. :^)
@@ninjabearpress2574 Yo, have ninjas taken you out yet? I feel if you've been a swordsman that long, you have to fight ninjas at least once.
Jeez! Where is a toolbox with a tiny screwdriver when you really need it.
That's what I ask every time a lens pops out of my glasses
Eh, he’s alright.
Being a great man is overrated anyway. LOL.
This is cut just short of that amazing monologue from Inara about the black mark. Would really love a clip of that monologue because her strength in that moment was so inspiring.
This reminds me of those martial art tropes where the highborn is taught to fight by masters but spars with opponents who hold back and let them win intentionally, and the lowborn who had to fight brutally for their life.
I'm not sure if this is an example of that trope. Atherton is genuinely a brilliant fighter and beats Mal 9 times out of 10. Mal only won because Atherton was distracted by Inara.
And THAT makes all the difference in the world☝
This episode of Firefly was also one of the very best at addressing the class snobbery and entitlement in a very creative way. Both Larry Drake (RIP) and Larry Pennell (RIP) both support this episode as genuinely honorable individuals in contrast to the many other examples of narrow and entitled gentiles. The smoke effects during the fight are (I believe) a homage to Ridley Scott's first Feature Film "The Duellists" (1977) which is one of the finest examples of Editing and Cinematography to ever grace the screen. It was all but eclipsed that year by "Star Wars" but it did win "Best Debut Film" at Cannes (1977). It remains a masterwork, however.
Oh Man Keitel was something else in that. A real gem of a film.
I was thinking of 'The Duelists" while watching this. I am glad someone else mentioned it here.
I just realized that was Durant from Darkman
Every dang time I watch this the ending still gets me.
This is scene for scene the duel in Sharpe's Honor. Even has the same dude who plays Atherton. Both awesome shows.
ua-cam.com/video/8I45e8BBdDc/v-deo.html
@@andyventures6574 Yep that's it. Lol. Had to be an inspiration.
Now that’s soldiering
It is similar, but I disagree... look to Ridley Scott's "The Duellists" (1977)... both the Sharpe and Firefly episodes are homages to "The Duellists".
@@stevenharper9108 not sure anybody here would understand....
Anthony DeLongis ( look him up, he's also Harrison Ford's bullwhip instructor) did the correograpy for this.
Got to talk with him on FB once, he said he wished they could have actually filmed the fight between his character and Sam Elliot's character in Roadhouse.
Never seen the show but admittedly, this duel doesn't feel awkward to watch. It actually feels like they are fighting as opposed to just tapping blades
Fair warning, if you watch the show and the movie, you may feel some of the rage us fans back in the day felt when the dipshits at Fox cancelled it to make way for "reality" TV shows.
The difference between "An expert swordsman" and a warrior.
I'm a swordsman, not a cat, I don't toy with my opponent but I would've allowed Mal to concede at first blood. That would at least have been a more realistic end to this scene.
@@ninjabearpress2574 Not entirely sure what you mean by "more realistic", given this is a sub-culture on another planet whose rules of decorum are not the same as ours... But either way, that wouldn't have been in line with Atherton's character; he's spoilt, petty and vindictive.
He has the skill of an expert swordsman, but none of the honor.
@Thescott16 I've seen the entire episode and no doubt, the supposed gentleman deserved to lose. My first Maestro used to say honor makes your blade light and quick.
Nah, a warrior doesn't let himself be injured needlessly since he never knows when the next fight is coming. Mal was never a warrior or an expert swordsman, he was always just a man doing his best to help his friends and willing to make great personal sacrifices for them if necessary.
@@genericpersonx333 Mal and Zoe were both warriors. They were soldiers on the losing side of a big war. I imagine they were both trained in many types of weapons combat, but swordsmanship would not be near the top of the list. I wonder if Mal did know how to use a sword, but pretended not to, just to get some "alone time " with Inara. Ha-Ha! The other people on the ship were not his friends. They were his "crew". Just like back during the war days, He would put his life on the line for them, like family.
Generally in duel the weapons are supposed to be essentially identical. I’ll never get over the disparity of the big basket hilt rapier and the smallsword Mal was using.
Yeah, me either, but if I remember this episode correctly Mal chose his weapon, his opponent obviously chose the weapon with which he was most comfortable.
@@ninjabearpress2574 Depending on culture it was generally the challenger that was supposed to supply the weapons for a duel. If it had to be swords I would have thought outside the box and quick had some giant 40 pound swords made up as to totally negate any advantage a more experienced opponent could have.
@@matts1166 The way I was trained, that wouldn't save you but thanks for the chuckle.
@@ninjabearpress2574 YOu were trained with 40 pound swords?
@@matts1166 I held four feet of two inch lead pipe full of sand at shoulder height until shidoshi said I could put it down, then my classmates and I sparred with said plumbing.
After many hours of such training, I'm sure I could handle a forty pound sword.
Now I understand why Castle fences a lot with Alexis and is top notch at it. Nathan did on FireFly.
I can't unsee that mist which (in Joss Whedon's words) "looks like something's on fire". XD
now that you mentioned it, I noticed it, it's pumping out from behind that tree at 1:00 lol
My favorite episode of firefly.
Mal will always be my favorite Captain
Atherton let his guard down, Mal never stopped fighting. It’s a cheeky win for sure, I’m biased towards Mal for sure; but all’s fair in war, no? Victory by any means, is still victory.
I liked how it was a team effort with him and Inara working together to beat him.
Fight to win.
Dying honorably gets you dead.
Once you are dead, you are no longer able to protect those who need you.
@@patrickkenyon2326 Sword duel: He wants to KILL me, I WILL NOT let him, by ANY means necessary. I WANT to walk away.
"You didn't have to wound that man."
"Yeah, I know, it was just funny. "
" Mercy is the mark of a good Man" .... Me, looking at my enemy while I think of that quote ... " Yeah, I have plenty of work ahead of me" ....
Mercy is just familicide with extra steps.
"you didn't have to wound that man" "yeah, but it was funny"
There's a alt-country song called "Alright Guy" that I think of every time I watch this episode. It has the exact same themes.
This was always my favourite scene.
"Eh, I'm alright." Classic.
Later, in Serenity:
"What is your sin?" (I think that was the question, it was something like that)
"Aww Hell, I'm a fan of all 7..."
This felt more real than any other swordfight I'd seen on tv or movies.
Except the duelist that shits on point
It didn't look rehearsed or like the classic "everybody's a ninja master" type of fight
@@marketingwithwilliam Yep, looks like a sadistic master is toying with a novice.
Great scene from the Shindig episode when Mal fights with the snobbish Atherton Wing.
There is something so very badass with throwing that broken blade into him, followed by a straight out sucker punch.
Matt Easton brought me here and omg he was right
Haha. Same!
Guess the views are gonna sky rocket :p
What video are you speaking of?
@@TritonsGuard ua-cam.com/video/bfcpyMdEwzM/v-deo.html
it takes so much more natural skill to do at 2:19 what Mal did than just being a decent swordsman
The hard part is getting it right under pressure, that much I'd agree with. I haven't tried sword throwing, but I have some decent experience with knife throwing (I have a video on my channel where I get my knife out of the sheathe and into a target about 8-10 feet away in just under 4 seconds). At the super close range they're at, that would be an appropriate distance, if you're to make such a throw. I just gotta say, the maneuver would be easier to get down than learning to sword fight well. The kick, grab, throw you could probably get in about an afternoon of practice (with a dull sword, if you're wise). Takes a lot longer to learn sword fighting.
The difference is that Mal probably had practiced throwing knives or something similar (as Jayne is also shown to be able to do in another episode) and was coordinated enough for the technique to transfer. Whereas rapier fencing was entirely foreign to him.
It’s the future. People got ray guns and space ships and they’re still fighting with swords.
This would have gone differently with pistols
Except one would have a shotgun and the other a rifle.
That's the whole reason Mal accepted the duel in the first place. He thought it was a pistol duel. lol
Oh, mother of mercy, with Pistols Mal would've blown Atherton away, to the moon and back. I always think of that quick-draw headshot in the first episode. Mal doesn't even stop his stride when he hits a bull's eye (his eye) on the agent agent from over Simon's shoulder.
Ah yes, the old put your sword behind your back trick.
can definitely see the influence from The Duelists in this scene.
Damn if Morena didn't look hot in this. RIP Larry Drake. From Darkman to LA Law he was always a stand out.
OK, guy I'm confused. What season is this frome please?
Its season one. Still waiting on season two
Season one, episode 4. There is only one season of this series.
@@NK-lr4bp I think that's the point guys xD
Ouch.
You sonofa...
The captain didn't yield, so all is fair
Skalligrim should review this.
ua-cam.com/video/tVgD7wY9hhE/v-deo.html Close
Who thinks we need Captain Mal right about now!?
Mighty fine shindig.
There are 3 types of fencers. 1) "Food" 2) What "Food" Eats and 3) What eats "Food". I tell my students to never play with their food. It always ends bad.
We need a hero.... , I'm holding out for a hero
'Til the morning light
He's gotta be sure
And it's gotta be soon
And he's gotta be larger than life
All events are time-bound. Never will know, for certain, when events turn for the better or worse. All events are time-bound.
"Well, I'm alright..."
the duellists brought me here
Painful ponderings: In later seasons we would have seen Mal become a more competent sword fighter.
Nah Mal knew the best way to win a sword fight is to not get into a sword fight.
He ended up besting the agent in the movie Serenity.
@@robertbusek30 That was pure luck, the agent thought he had immobilized him by striking a nerve, but Mal had that nerve hit by shrapnel before
If anything fellas, Serenity just showed us that more sword fights were always the plan should Firefly have continued.
Glorious melee combat
You cut out the best part where Atherton doesn't learn from disrespecting Inara and gets the black mark.
2:20 is also great proof of Atherton’s total lack of knowledge of fighting. First off, he gets impaled and takes the weapon out - meaning he’s going to bleed more, and possibly get infected since the wound is exposed. Not smart, but understandable as pulling the weapon out of his body would mean he HAD a weapon. But then he just…throws the sword away?? He had a weapon in hand and tossed it aside because it had his blood on it?? Doesn’t matter if it’s squicky or if you’re in pain, don’t give up your last means of defense.
Man, I could be an elderly man on my death bed some day, and still won't forgive Fox for cancelling Firefly just to put some shitty "reality TV" shows in its place. Same with them cancelling Dark Angel around the same time. No longer seeing young Jessica Alba in tight leather pants was very disappointing for teen-me.
Mal versus Kirk.......what a battle that would be.
River versus Worf with Battleliths would be shiny.
With pistols, I'd give it up for Mal. In almost anything else, I'd give it up for Kirk.
Came here from Sharpe dueling
Me too pal
Well he got that nerve removed long ago, probably that's why he could still fight :p
BUT just like in the first Black Panther movie, he (the main character) ACTUALLY LOST the fight😏🙄
I mean, the guy is dying from that, to be fair
Nah, you forget that this is a very high tech society and they're on a stupid rich world. They just prefer to use swords for duels for some reason.
I wonder if they were influenced by Liam Neeson and Tim Roth in Rob Roy?
They don't make them like this anymore.
I've literally had this happen in a PF1e campaign. Not identical, but combat maneuvers are a bitch.
i dont remember seeing this what episode was it in?
Shindig
Holy shit, is that Dr. Giggles??
You're goddamn right...
No, it is Robert Durant.
No it's Benny Stulwicz from LA Law
@@CaptWesStarwind Robert G. Durant!
I think I know a bit about sword combat but tbh apart from the silly behind the back stab (it’s not that easy to stab through shirt and skin) nothing to crazy happened. The broken sword however...
the fuck is it made of glass? You either tempered that so poorly it would have broken long before he stepped on it, or it’s a bunch of bullshit. Not to mention the guard on “bad guy’s” award must be soooo heavy and it would get in the way of anything you do that isn’t at arms length.
That's blatant cheating. It's not that you can't grapple but the girl clearly interfered with the fight.
@Joeseph Smith ... not by 3rd parties it's not
@Joeseph Smith What are you basing this assertion on?
@Joeseph Smith Mate, you're completely making this up. Pointing that out is not "being a jerk". Duels do not permit interference by 3rd parties.
@Joeseph Smith I don't know where you're getting that from - in fact duels were not "no holds barred" - but I'll pretend you're right. That's clearly *between combatants* only. Or do you think a friend could walk in and grab your opponent while you stab him?
EDIT: Typo
@Joeseph Smith Insult me all you like - you're ignoring what I'm saying because you can't justify what you're saying. And that's blatantly obvious to anyone with a brain.
BRING BACK FIREFLY
You might want to hold off on that wish, considering what the progressives have done to every series they touch.
@@bugwar5545 And how at least one (maybe more? not sure) of the original cast have passed away, not to mention how much they've aged. Sadly, it's gone and it won't be coming back, best thing to do is just to enjoy what we do have rather than pining for more.
Er, very similar cinematography AND story ua-cam.com/video/Td_n2wxdkW0/v-deo.htmlm40s. Joss made a play on the historical reference 'Matthews vs Sheridan'
2:57
Fight back & buy a Brown coat!!
1:23 it makes my blood boil yeah you just have to run with the sword extended im sure that will make him not dodge
How would Atherton fare against the Operative?
He wouldn't. Dead in one minute
Atherton would have had his ass handed to him.
@@robertenyart9883 Diced and sliced...in tiny, shiny pieces.
only 1 season. still processing.
Only 1/2 of one season...
to all these pretentious folks in the comments talking about honor and how this was a cheap shot or they were cheating, or whatever your problem is, you do remember that mal does crime for a living and is a space pirate, right? And Inara helps in those endeavors, she's as much a pirate as he is. Also, when your crush is about to die at the hands of a misogynistic sack of shit, you'd intervene too. Also, this takes 500 years in the future, you don't know what duel rules are like there.
who the good guy?
Malcolm Reynolds.
Slight spoiler:
I always wondered why was this not the account for his nerve cluster being removed? It seems like that would of been a more significant reference to the mythos.
That's a good point
Bahahaha!!!!
I saw this before Serenity and was expecting Mal to just let the dude stab him, so he could grab the hilt keeping the saber in his gut while he progresses to lop the dude's head off.
That would make sense in Excalibur, or Highlander x (where x > 2).
Always thought this was one of the weakest scenes of the series. Relying on someone's overconfidence/arrogance to get out of an unwindable situation wasnt Whedon like. I guess giving Mal an unknown background in fencing or something was too pat as well. Granted it was a tough set up to get out of naturally.
I would not say its the weakest. The guy lost because he arrogant bastard and over confidant then made a mistake. Mal got himself into trouble and nearly gets killed because he got a bit reckless, overconfident, and ignorant of what he was getting into. Afterwards I think Mal was a bit humbled that well maybe doing what he did was stupid. That sort of why I like the scene. I thought that was what Whedon was going after it sort of taught Mal a lesson.
It's not even arrogance that caused him to lose. It was the fact that he took hit eye off the opponent for just a split second in his greed and lust for Inara. In combat, you never take your eye off the opponent until they are down (read dead or dismembered)
or maybe Mal had a plan. Relying on Atherton's arrogance to give him an advantage. Mal knew he could never beat Atherton in a straight swordsmanship contest, so he had to open himself up to a painful but non lethal hit, which provided him with the opportunity to get in close.
Waving metal objects and ocassionally faking injury does not make a sword fight
Kinda feel like this was cheap, even by Firefly's standards. Anara outright interupted the duel and distracted one of the combatants. You'd THINK that the duel would be invalidated on the spot, or that a "designated second" would cut Mal down immediately for taking advantage of an observer interfering.
Would have been better IMO if Mal had just "fought dirty", tossed pocket sand in the guy's eyes or something once forced into this position and wrestled the sword away. Demonstrating gentleman versus warrior tactics in combat.
Mal didn't yield though, he was simply on his knees. A good rule of thumb is never take your eyes off your opponent or they'll get dirty
@@jetsin-actual Problem wasn't whether Mal yielded (he obviously didn't). The problem was Anara, an observer, directly inserted herself into the conflict and distracted one of the combatants. That makes this less about "honorable skill versus pragmatic soldiering" and more about the main character needing cheap shots to win.
I mean hell, why not sneak a blaster in and shoot the kid if cheating means absolutely nothing to you?
@@tnerbtnerb5136 Mal did get Zoe to stand behind and hit that guy in the face with the mare's leg.
Moral of the story: Use your pretty female friends for the distraction or the final hit. A win is always more shiny than a loss.
Jayne is a girls name but Jayne is not pretty. Jayne is also a man and grenades are never useful in close quarters.
Eh I'm right
Mal. Means Bad.
In the Latin
Not his full name anyway.
Ahh, he's alright, really.
@@SpSot But it is what he goes by.
So unconvincing. They didn't get any training and neither is athletic. How lame.
Crap fighting.
Works within the context of the episode. Mal doesn't really know how to use a sword and Atherton is just toying with him the whole time, intentionally not going all out. It's bad fighting but good storytelling via fighting.
What the fuck wasn't this a space epic? No wonder they second season went straight to DVD. Snore.
Stoooopid
This is actually the scene that convinced me how mind-numbingly stupid Firefly really is. btw: As a swordsman of some decades experience, I can tell you for a fact Mal would've been given a chance to concede at first blood, an honorable and realistic end to the duel.
Nothing about this duel was accurate or realistic. This is catering to those uneducated in these things. I was thinking the same thing as you.
Quillons1 I agree, Captain Mal won because he's the star of the show.
The rules are different, so the show is stupid?
@@ghuegel I've never seen the show. To be honest, never even heard of it. But this representation of a duel was utterly ridiculous to anyone who has ever studied that historical area. I wouldn't call the show stupid (And I'm pretty sure you are responding to the other comment, not mine) but I figured I'd explain why I look at it the way I do. This was more of a brawl made to look like a duel with some "rules" thrown in to make it look like an affair of honor. The one guy (the one who ultimately "wins") was beaten. Fairly and certainly. I know he didn't yield but conventions of the day were that you would accord yourself a gentleman. The means he used to win were as ungentlemanly as they were dishonorable. Even his friends would've turned their backs on him if this were the "honorable" affair the show makes it out to be. Your account of yourself in a duel was, often times, more important than if you actually won. Not all duels were fought to the death but I grant that I didn't see the scenes leading up to this fight so I don't know what understanding was met (which would've been settled by the seconds). Don't get me wrong, if it's a brawl or a fight or a personal "duel" then don't invite seconds. If the behavior of the participants isn't a concern, then there is no need for seconds, a duel "administrator", and all the witnesses. I don't know if the show is stupid or not, but this dueling scene definitely was. It just seems "forced" and plays to the ignorance of an audience who thinks they know what "dueling rules" are. In reality there were MANY different conventions for fighting duels, and this scene just seems to borrow from a lot of them and throwing them together in order to make the audience identify with what they perceive dueling was supposed to be like. Like I said, this isn't a challenge to you, just figured in the spirit of friendly debate and/or banter I'd throw in my thoughts. But hey, I'm the guy who loved the very short run "Jack of All Trades" and that was complete Hollywood fighting, but it was a comedy and it was fun to watch.
Dave Power #6 you're obviously a fan, I won't try to dissuade you from it. I personally find Firefly and the movie Serenity lacking, but this scene is an utter affront to my experience.
Dude firefly seems like an awesome series, but this scene sucked.
Mindless and senseless flailing, no deft movement or skill.
Darskul I can’t tell if you’re being serious. Mal is not a swordsman. He’s a gunslinger. This was a very accurate depiction of what someone who’s never fenced would look like.
Mal is a fighter, it ain't pretty but it gets the job done.
Mal knows how to shoot and take a punch. All the sword skills he had were a single ineffectual lesson (he got his ass whipped a lot) by a high class escort last night (so I'm doubtful she was above average), after an already eventful day. I'm rather grateful its not another story where with briefest effort a complete amateur beats anyone with skill and experience just because they are a main character, like in 'The Knight's Tale'. Mal flailed around to try and stay alive, but eventually won because he's a brute and a cheat.
@@FlamesAndShadows I had a few fencing lessons years ago, haven't done anything for a while but I would still be a more graceful swordfighter than Malcolm was.
Sorta the point, I reckon. They joke earlier in the episode that Mal barely knows which end of the sword to hold, so he probably wouldn't be much good in a proper swordfight.