I loved this game. More so than Suikoden 3 and/or 5. This, and Suikoden 2. Thank you for bringing it up. I've exhausted almost ALL of PlayStation's JRPGs from PS1 and PS2. The nostalgia is wonderful.
While I thought this game had some pretty rough edges, it kept me hooked enough to finish it. I especially loved the ship battles, and just having a ship as a base felt rad.
7:21 that wasn't just jrpgs that went beachy it was the entire industry. Super Mario Sunshine,Wind Waker, Grand Theft Auto Vice City,Dead or Alive Extreme Beach Volleyball etc
The thing I really liked about playing Tactics after IV was that in IV some characters are recruited close to the end of the game and thus usually are overlooked for using in your party, and don't get much or any development. These same characters are those you begin with in Tactics, and the ones you recruited early in IV become some of the latter ones to recruit in Tactics. I liked this reversal a lot, as it gave me an opportunity to use characters I'd never have considered using in IV.
You're not alone. I think this game is incredibly under rated and being held to traditional JRPG standards that were just never ment to apply to it. It's the oldest (and maybe the only) JRPG I've played that was about the the main character and their journey and actually allowed the player to mold the main characters personality in the direction they wanted through its key story moments and character interactions. Literally every thing you said and did affected the ending in some way, even if it was just one line of dialogue. Even decisions that felt like we were being forced to make "the right choice" still changed the ending slightly depending on how many times or exactly how you went about trying not to pick that option. It was brilliant and ahead of its time in my opinion. It's easily one of my favorite rpg's that I've ever played, and I don't pick favorites lightly.
Suikoden IV always felt so isolated from the rest of the series to me. I really liked the first 3 games and how they interacted with each other even though they mostly take place in 3 different regions. You see a lot of familiar characters, you tie their stories together and in the end there is this big universe across all installments that makes the series feel vivid. Suikoden IV appeared so awkward and uninviting to me, removing one of the series' staples that made me love it so much and only barely resembling what the first three games brought to the genre. However you made really valid points and I appreciate the game a lot more after watching your review. I wasn't aware of a lot of things you brought up and didn't remember a few either. Made me feel a bit nostalgic too so I guess I should give it another try sometime soon. I'm glad I found this channel. Hope you cover the first three games as well!
Thanks for the kind words! I love bringing the little things to people's attention. Comments like this, keep me struggling to get better at this stuff.
I am so glad I found your channel (and game dave's) because of Hapa's announcement of Summer of Suikoden. Sure opened me up to other hidden gems from watching your 'Trashed Classics' videos, which I find enjoyable as well. While I haven't played S4 since my high school days, I always thought that this was the black sheep of the series. While most mechanics are carried over and somewhat redesigned, I really liked having my "base" as my ship. It was fun having a mobile base as opposed to the older games where it was traditional. Anyways, I think your review was awesome and has indeed inspired me to replay this game. Though, hopefully it has aged well despite the flaws you mentioned haha.
Fuck yeah, Thanks for coming by! You bring up a good point about your ship doubling as your base. That was actually really cool for me too. Thanks for the kind words man! They're much appreciated.
For sure man. Looking forward to seeing any new content, especially dem 'Trashed Classics'! On another note, you ever plan on doing any streaming or LPs? Been hanging around Super Derek's playthrough streams lately and it would be awesome to watch more retro JRPG (or whatever) streams.
What I enjoyed about these games was the build up of your headquarters, getting all your allies together to populate it. I really remember very little of this specific game though, I think I beat it but I guess I can't really say for sure.
This game will forever hold a special place in my heart. The characters, the story, the world, the aesthetic, all perfect in my opinion. It was also very unique at the time and all the different ways the story can play out and if you took your time to talk to all the characters at different points it really fleshed them all out. My son got me into this game years ago for the PS2 and I'd be soooooooo happy if they not remastered, but re-made this game with our modern day technology and see it fleshed out more. Oh no, there goes the nostalgia hitting me!
That run cycle = Poop scoot. I just ran around the whole game imagining I was trying to find a bathroom. My roommates knew I was about to start running after long dialog sequences because you could here me say "Oh no!" and then start poop scootin' around the world. Fun times.
Great review, man! I am happy to see someone else enjoys this game other than myself. Whenever I hear this brought up by Suikoden fans, it is with a sigh or a groan. I can understand that the shortcomings can be too much for a lot of people, but I still had a great time completing it.
FINALLY! Someone who stands up for the grinding. I've always loved a good grind if the game makes it fun to do, I get that good feeling of slow progression after investing a lot of time and effort. Like you say...we live for that stuff.
If it's done right, you shouldn't even think twice about it. It should just feel like a part of the game. In that sense, I could grind all day in games like Disgaea, FFT and FF7.
Jared, I just wanted to let it be known here, for the world to know--I love you. Also, thank you for agreeing to review this game for S.O.S.--you've convinced me to give it another chance, first time in over a decade for me. And dat footage looking nice--you using component run through the Framemeister, or some other output form the PS2? Finally, I liked that "island phase" JRPGs went through, but I've already told you that. Chrono Cross is god.
Yes sir! That's that classic ps2 component signal! I don't know man, I mean I liked the games that came from that island phase, but I just can't stand the look of them. Excluding Chrono Cross, of course.
I'm curious, which games are part of this "island phase"? Sure there was some games with this theme, but not enough to be a phase, I think. I can remember FFX, Chrono Cross, Suikoden IV, Granstream Saga, Wind Waker, Skies of Arcadia... ok, that's a bit more than I expected.
Hah! Nevef thought about this, but there definitely was an ocean/island phase, especially for starts of games: Star Ocean 3, Grandia 3, Kingdom Hearts, Magna Carta 2, Arc the Lad End of Darkness, Shining Tears, Tales of Legendia... Not an rpg, but LoZ Windwaker was definitely part of that phase.
I COUNTER-reviewed this game in the comments of the Gamespot review video on this game, it seems I won't have to do that here! I love this game, it may be slow to start, but it really is a great game! =D
Yet another RPG series that I've always been meaning to get into and yet never got around to doing so. Might look into getting this or 3 at some point.
The whole series is 100 percent worth a look. Part 2 is crazy expensive, and probably will be forever, so now's a good time to fire up the old ps1 emulator. The ps2 entries are pretty reasonably priced, if memory serves me.
I really liked this one. The atmosphere and general feel of it wasn't like any other game and as someone from a seafaring family and living in an island nation I loved the theme of it. I was all about seeing new places and meeting people to add to my crew. The encounter rate didn't bother me till near the end of the game when I had taken advantage of it to sufficiently level up my entire crew and it no longer had any purpose. My PS2 went through a weird phase the summer I got this game where the only two games that worked on it for months were this game and Dragon Quest VIII but somehow it went back to normal and still works fine to this day. At least the two games that worked were RPGs that would last me till it worked properly again :) Haven't played this since the PS2 days but now that I have a debug PS3 I should perhaps give it another go and see how the graphics look on it. I somehow remembered it looking worse than this but maybe that's just because all I've seen from this game since then was the main character with those weird eyes.
That's a stroke of luck. Having a broken ps2 sucks, but if it only plays super long rpgs, that takes the edge off. I was genuinely impressed. I went in expecting it to be bad, but I ended up liking it. As for the game looking good maybe that has to do with the framemeister I'm feeding my ps2 through. (sorry, I don't enough chances to brag about that).
I get it, I've been bragging a lot about my debug PS3 lately. But as of late they've been cheaper than a Framemeister so you could get in on it too if you want :P
Interesting video as always, i bought the first suikoden game on my vita a while ago but i never really managed to fully get into it, i hope i do at some point just cause i think the battles look amazing. About what you said regarding grinding, i think the RPG that made me see grinding as something other than an artificial game lengthener was Bravely Default. That game let you change everything from encounter rate to battle speed, auto battle settings, a fast forward button... Giving the player complete control over the rhythm of each fight made the game a lot more enjoyable for me: when i just wanted to see more story i could blast through battles and when i wanted to try out new party compositions i could change the game's difficulty and pace accordingly; it was such a great system.
My wife absolutely loved that game. I haven't played it for more than an hour myself, but on paper, that sounds awesome. When I think about grinding, it's typically not about grinding before a mandatory boss or anything. I think about playing FF7 and grinding just to see what that next limit level would bring. I'm not the biggest fan of mandatory grinding. For example, when devs make a boss so hard that you have no choice but to spend an hour or two grinding. I like games that make you want to grind.
New age hipster dorks HA!!!!!! Yes we sure do love ourselves a good grind indeed, and I sure do love how characters run in this game I could watch it all day! Good luck with your summer of Suikoden Jared, how many of them are you gonna try to tackle from now until labor day?
Excellent review. I will say, however, that I am disappointed that you didn't mentioned what is probably the greatest thing about this game; the opening title sequence track La Mer by Coba! I takes what are essentially pretty boring cutscenes in the game and makes them "feel" exciting and sort of implies that an epic adventure is in store for the player. Also of note is that Coba (Yasuhiro Kobayashi) is a very interesting musician in his own right. If memory serves, this is one of the games that I bought shortly after it's release, then came back to complete years later.
Thanks! I just looked up that artist, and "interesting" is an understatement. That guy has some crazy songs. Very talented stuff, even though I've never considered myself a fan of the accordion. HA!
Yes i love this game,for me from best to worst are:Suikoden 2,Suikoden 4,Suikoden 5,Suikoden,Suikoden 3. Although i love them all. But i see many bad critics for this game and very good ones for 3 but for me personally Suikoden 4 is much better then Suikoden 3!
I actually enjoyed Suikoden IV, my third favorite within the series. Much better game than the often praised Suikoden V with its atrocious loading times and slow battle animations.
Man I haven't played 5 in a long time, and this is going to sound petty, but one of my bigest problems with it was the character design. Everyone just looked sort of simple and I really didn't like that.
I enjoyed the character design, though they only look good in cut-scenes. The actual gameplay graphics are really subpar and everything looks bland as a result.
Strange, because 5 really is the second best in the series. It too suffers from a slow start (but it serves to flesh out a bunch of the characters and makes you care more about them and the tragedy that occurs, which you wouldn't if you were thrown into the action right away). 5 has the best combat system, best army battles, tons of overall refinements, tons of great detail (extra scenes and stuff up the wazoo), dialogue choices that actually matter more (liking point system, which to be fair isn't really explained) and so on. I'd argue that 3 and 4 are easily the weakest entries in the series. 3 has absolutely atrocious pacing, tons of backtracking, worst combat system, worst army battle system, etc. Yes 5 isn't without problems (but none of the Suikoden games are perfect, even 2 has issues like frankly pretty shoddy localization), but even so I would never rank it any lower than top 3 in the series.
I've actually finished this game last month with my brother and I did enjoy my time with suikoden 4 but I actually thought that the story was meh compared to the other suikoden. I liked certain characters like Hervey, Sigurd and Kika but most of the others cast I couldn't connect with especially Snowe. There were also times where I felt that some characters felt like clones when it comes to the fighting animations. Also I couldn't help but laugh at lazlo because of his design and that running animation it's too funny I definitely agree with you on that. Overall good review man and keep it up!
I remember playing a demo of this game a long time back at Gamestop. I was looking for a copy of .hack and couldn't help but notice the main characters walk cycle. Lmao I swear I'll get a copy of this game sometime soon. I've always loved these games and still have no idea why I hadn't played this one yet. Great review once again man!
Thanks a bunch! It'll probably hold its current value for a while, so even if it takes a while to get it, you wont have to worry about paying too much for it.
Avalanche Reviews Awesome. I'm sure I can find a copy online somewhere. Maybe Amazon or Bullmoose. Btw do you plan to cover Suikoden V? It seems to be the fan favorite of the series (though it's not mine) If so I can't wait!
Odd request, but... I've not played any RPGs on PS2 (except for FF XII) until recently. I've noticed a lot of them have voice acting outside of the pre-scripted cutscenes, like this game and FF X. What other good RPGs are there on PS2 (or elsewhere) that have this thing?
Off the top of my head, I can think of the Persona games, Shadow hearts series, the Tales games, Growlanser 3 and 4. That's all I can come up with, but I'm sure there's more.
This is your best review yet! I wasn't gonna play this but im definitely gonna give it a shot now! 5-7 hours for the story to pick up is totally doable. I've watched anime that take triple that to get going lol encounter rate sounds dreadful but I trust your recommendation that it's worth it. I just gotta get past Suikoden 3 first haha Also I totally agree about games that just speed up the walk cycle for running lol hate that shit but suikoden has always been low budget in a great way. I love summer of suikoden!
Fuck yeah man! Glad ya liked it. You're right about Suikoden. It has always been a real low budget series. I wouldn't be surprised if 2 was the most expensive game in the series.
Oh hey, I recently managed to pick this up for a good price. I've only played the first two. Suikoden 3 never made it over here sadly. I should really get to playing it...
I heard from a few reviewers saying something like stay away from this game. My first Suikoden was 2 and believe or not it was a year ago when I first play it. I really enjoyed 2 and I really like how there's a huge number of recruits more number then chrono cross. I like how a game gives you a place to build or rebuild be recruit allies, after listening to you I may try the game. I need to play 2 again and I'm going to have to start over since I lost my last copy. It's too bad there's no vita verson for this. Plus Cat ally= yes :3 Thanks for the review bro.
Cat allies and video games are a winning combination! The crappy thing about you losing your copy of S2 is the fact that it's one of the most expensive ps1 games out there right now. This is a prime time to consider emulation my man. Really though, it doesn't matter how you do it, you're absolutely right about having to play it again.
actually the last one was an emulation I just didn't know what you response to that was. But no worries I have it's on my ps3 and vita so now it's legit.
i loved this game, i mean, at the time i was probably angry about it because it wasnt good as the first 2 ones, and it didnt had the nostalgic feelings like the 3rd one, but i played it until i did everything in the game and ended up appreciating it. and yeah, the running animation convinced me that the protagonist suffered diarrhea for the whole game but mostly, i loved the soundtrack and tons of the characters
As someone who's favorite genre are JRPGs, I can say that I heavily dislike when they make grinding a requirement. Imo, every good JRPG should be balanced around fights being at a reasonable difficulty as long as you don't run away from any encounters on your way to the next boss fight, (not including backtracking for things) If you can hit that sweet spot then that's perfect. That's the one reason I've never been able to get into Disgaea despite enjoying the little bit of its story I liked, being forced to grind literally feels like I'm wasting my time and kills pacing for me.
Although maybe I should include an asterisk for if the game has an auto battle option and a speed up option like Bravely Default and Bravely Second, those games were rather painless to grind to max level thanks to that, so if you feel the need to have grinding then please at least include systems like that
But don't you feel like the speed up and auto battle options, kind of negate the grinding? At that point, the grinding should just be done away with. I tend to enjoy conservative amounts of grinding, but if you need to include a mechanic to skip that stuff, why include it at all? That's always perplexed me.
Fair enough honestly, and I know there's definitely people that enjoy grinding itself, considering the disgaea series prides itself on that, I just find it pace breaking if you're not doing it for super bosses or the like
i played this when it came out ,totally forgot about this game XD I remember it got low reviews in some gaming magazines i used to read back then ,but i enjoyed it
Ugh one few RPGs ever bitched about random encounter rate Other thing I hated was scaling back to 4 team party vs the 6 party But honestly looking back on it I did enjoy the story and lots links to S1 but out 1-4 (as I never really got into tactics and finally got my hands on clean boxed/booklet copy of V with out selling my soul so haven't played it yet) think its the weakest
Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. I remember 3 playing pretty poorly, but having really cool characters. I guess with a series so varied as suikoden, you can expect some fluctuation in quality. It's been a long long time since I played 5. Planning on dusting off my copy pretty soon hopefully.
All my friends said skip IV, V is better. But I can't get myself to play Suiko V, it's just to slow. IV animation feels clunky and the environments are really bland compared to III, but still very enjoyable. The ship headquarters gives it a unique feel. Also, Ted & Soul Eater is in the game. That's a win.
I tried to get into Suikeden 2 or 3 and just the beginings are soo damn slow and I'm hit with this feeling of "where do I go, what do I do?!" it's never clear what the game wants me to do besides talk to everyone.
It's been a while since I played 2, but I can't really remember a point where I didn't know where to go. As for 3, you could be right, I barely remember that one.
"A few bad decisions", eh? I have not a fucking slightest tiny fucking idea HOW in the world someone could test run this game and decide "Yep, this battle rate is perfect". This is fucking incomprehensible. All it would take to fix the issues is to lessen the battle rate and increase exp gain to compensate. What were they thinking? Whoever is behind this decision, they should not be allowed to make games. They literally fucking ruined this game and made it borderline unplayable. My words are confirmed by countless critics and the death of Suikoden franchise. And the run animation? How HARD it was to do a proper run animation? It's not some indie shit, it's a work of professionals. It was either a joke or the director of this game was massively incompetent. Fucking unbelievable
He's also dressed like a girl. I wouldn't mind a girl dressed like that, as long as she's cute of course. The haircut too, reminds me of Chie from Persona 4.
I honestly hated 4 which is wierd since I keep hearing 5 was apparently a worse game. A mix of the world map the really dull location designs around the world and Snowes bitch-ass kinda killed my ability to care really early on. I honestly couldn't wait for the game to end even during the meaty bits of it.
Avalanche Reviews They're well worth your time. Blood Omen was about as old school as you could get in terms of top-down, narrative-driven adventure games. The jewel was LoK: Soul Reaver. Though I felt like the story grew richer (and simultaneously more scattered) with Soul Reaver 2 and ultimately Defiance, you'd be hard pressed to find better voice acting and world building. I never played Blood Omen 2 to be honest, but felt a pang of longing when "Dead Sun" was scrapped. I played Soul Reaver first and felt Blood Omen filled in the history (pillars of Nosgoth, Kain's origins and ultimately damnation of the land)
I highly disagree with the grinding part, my favortie RPGs from the snes era are chrono trigger and secreto of gaya/time and terranigma which don't make you grind, I even put most modern JRPGs in easy , not because I don't like a challenge the opposite is the case, but I like a challenge in form of gameplay not having to run in circles for hours to grind just to be able to face a final boss
Then it sounds like you enjoy action rpgs, and I do too, but when a game is based on your skill with the controller, grinding is unnecessary. In a game where you're choosing commands from a menu, having higher stats only comes from smart planning and higher levels. Also, there are more than a couple of side areas in Chrono Trigger that require a bit of grinding. The son of the sun boss comes to mind.
I actualy love turn based strategy with RPG elements, but like I say : elements, I'm talking vandal hearts, x-com, front mission, I love planing in fact FFX is my favorite in part because of it's amazing turn based combat , I like playing disgaea games once through the story I can't bring myself to grind to level 9999 mutliple times to create strong characters. PS: if by grinding to defeat the son of the sun you mean advancing a little more in the story sure, but that's it, every time I have finished CC I have defeated every normal enemie and I only ever lost because I didn't undertand(or remebered) how to defeat a boss (though I have never fought the special boss of the DS version)
Ya know, I wasn't a huge fan of the battle system in FFX. I liked a lot of games that had similar systems, like Grandia, but for some reason, FFX never gave me that same satisfied feeling. I did enjoy the sphere grid though.
i rpg fan hate grinding the reason i finished more garbage games like mass effect or new vegas than good games come to think of it, i probably finished only fallout 1 and 2 out of good rpgs
i played a little wow and got bored extremely fast i can't do the same thing again and again, hence i don't play generic games i can tolerate grind only with pvp and when there is extremely strong and desired meta, like unlocking new tanks in WOT or new ships in cloud pirates or new heroes in marvel heroes
Huge majority of Modern Game Critiques/Journalist are normies to begin with and are trying to blend into the Gaming Community.. Basically paid outsiders trying to be a part of something where they don't really belong..
It's merely a theory, one thrown around alot in a LP of it on something awful (Said LP now on LPArchive for all to see.), but like you said, it would explain alot.
I hated Suikoden 4. Mostly because i played it not too long after Suikoden 2, which was faster, better looking, didn't had the terrible voice acting, didn't made traveling a shore and it allowed you to have a party of 6. If they had done Suikoden 4 as a 2d game, like 2 was, i'm sure it would be miles better than what it is.
I fired up Suikoden 2 again, and i had completely forgoten that the game gives the backstory of your character, your father/mentor, your sister and your best friend with no dialog with piano music on the background. That game only gets better as i play it again :P.
I loved this game. More so than Suikoden 3 and/or 5. This, and Suikoden 2. Thank you for bringing it up. I've exhausted almost ALL of PlayStation's JRPGs from PS1 and PS2. The nostalgia is wonderful.
I can't remember much of 5, but it's definitely better than 3, in my opinion. Glad to offer a little nostalgia for ya!
While I thought this game had some pretty rough edges, it kept me hooked enough to finish it. I especially loved the ship battles, and just having a ship as a base felt rad.
I agree completely
7:21 that wasn't just jrpgs that went beachy it was the entire industry. Super Mario Sunshine,Wind Waker, Grand Theft Auto Vice City,Dead or Alive Extreme Beach Volleyball etc
WOW! I never thought of that. What the hell was going on back then?!?!?!
@@AvalancheReviews I guess tropics became widely desirable (and somewhat more accessible) tourist destination.
The thing I really liked about playing Tactics after IV was that in IV some characters are recruited close to the end of the game and thus usually are overlooked for using in your party, and don't get much or any development. These same characters are those you begin with in Tactics, and the ones you recruited early in IV become some of the latter ones to recruit in Tactics. I liked this reversal a lot, as it gave me an opportunity to use characters I'd never have considered using in IV.
call me strange but I actually really liked this game. Was a different feel than most rpgs.
Same here!
It acctually was my favourite game
PSDI it is the game of my childhood
still own it...
You're not alone. I think this game is incredibly under rated and being held to traditional JRPG standards that were just never ment to apply to it. It's the oldest (and maybe the only) JRPG I've played that was about the the main character and their journey and actually allowed the player to mold the main characters personality in the direction they wanted through its key story moments and character interactions. Literally every thing you said and did affected the ending in some way, even if it was just one line of dialogue. Even decisions that felt like we were being forced to make "the right choice" still changed the ending slightly depending on how many times or exactly how you went about trying not to pick that option. It was brilliant and ahead of its time in my opinion. It's easily one of my favorite rpg's that I've ever played, and I don't pick favorites lightly.
Suikoden IV always felt so isolated from the rest of the series to me. I really liked the first 3 games and how they interacted with each other even though they mostly take place in 3 different regions. You see a lot of familiar characters, you tie their stories together and in the end there is this big universe across all installments that makes the series feel vivid. Suikoden IV appeared so awkward and uninviting to me, removing one of the series' staples that made me love it so much and only barely resembling what the first three games brought to the genre.
However you made really valid points and I appreciate the game a lot more after watching your review. I wasn't aware of a lot of things you brought up and didn't remember a few either. Made me feel a bit nostalgic too so I guess I should give it another try sometime soon.
I'm glad I found this channel. Hope you cover the first three games as well!
Thanks for the kind words! I love bringing the little things to people's attention. Comments like this, keep me struggling to get better at this stuff.
I am so glad I found your channel (and game dave's) because of Hapa's announcement of Summer of Suikoden. Sure opened me up to other hidden gems from watching your 'Trashed Classics' videos, which I find enjoyable as well.
While I haven't played S4 since my high school days, I always thought that this was the black sheep of the series. While most mechanics are carried over and somewhat redesigned, I really liked having my "base" as my ship. It was fun having a mobile base as opposed to the older games where it was traditional.
Anyways, I think your review was awesome and has indeed inspired me to replay this game. Though, hopefully it has aged well despite the flaws you mentioned haha.
Fuck yeah, Thanks for coming by! You bring up a good point about your ship doubling as your base. That was actually really cool for me too. Thanks for the kind words man! They're much appreciated.
For sure man. Looking forward to seeing any new content, especially dem 'Trashed Classics'!
On another note, you ever plan on doing any streaming or LPs? Been hanging around Super Derek's playthrough streams lately and it would be awesome to watch more retro JRPG (or whatever) streams.
What I enjoyed about these games was the build up of your headquarters, getting all your allies together to populate it. I really remember very little of this specific game though, I think I beat it but I guess I can't really say for sure.
That is definitely one of the big draws for the series. Just having such a huge cast of varied characters, kept me excited to keep playing.
remember playing this in high school now I am 31 the good old days
This game will forever hold a special place in my heart. The characters, the story, the world, the aesthetic, all perfect in my opinion. It was also very unique at the time and all the different ways the story can play out and if you took your time to talk to all the characters at different points it really fleshed them all out. My son got me into this game years ago for the PS2 and I'd be soooooooo happy if they not remastered, but re-made this game with our modern day technology and see it fleshed out more. Oh no, there goes the nostalgia hitting me!
That run cycle = Poop scoot. I just ran around the whole game imagining I was trying to find a bathroom. My roommates knew I was about to start running after long dialog sequences because you could here me say "Oh no!" and then start poop scootin' around the world. Fun times.
Played that game when I was in sixth grade I think, probably earlier than that. One of my favorites hands down. I don’t care what anyone else says.
Yeah, I liked it a lot. It had its problems, but it's way better than most reviewers said it was
Man, I loved this game when i played it in my teen years, i really wanna play it again... maybe soon.
DO IT!!
Great review, man! I am happy to see someone else enjoys this game other than myself. Whenever I hear this brought up by Suikoden fans, it is with a sigh or a groan. I can understand that the shortcomings can be too much for a lot of people, but I still had a great time completing it.
Same here. Consider me late to the party, but this is definitely an underrated gem on the ps2.
+Exvalos It's not as good add the other games, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad.
FINALLY! Someone who stands up for the grinding. I've always loved a good grind if the game makes it fun to do, I get that good feeling of slow progression after investing a lot of time and effort. Like you say...we live for that stuff.
If it's done right, you shouldn't even think twice about it. It should just feel like a part of the game. In that sense, I could grind all day in games like Disgaea, FFT and FF7.
we need the series to make a comeback
Jared, I just wanted to let it be known here, for the world to know--I love you.
Also, thank you for agreeing to review this game for S.O.S.--you've convinced me to give it another chance, first time in over a decade for me. And dat footage looking nice--you using component run through the Framemeister, or some other output form the PS2?
Finally, I liked that "island phase" JRPGs went through, but I've already told you that. Chrono Cross is god.
Yes sir! That's that classic ps2 component signal! I don't know man, I mean I liked the games that came from that island phase, but I just can't stand the look of them. Excluding Chrono Cross, of course.
Avalanche Reviews dude thats heart warming from both of you and great review I must play this series now after seeing Dereks one now this one !!
I'm curious, which games are part of this "island phase"? Sure there was some games with this theme, but not enough to be a phase, I think.
I can remember FFX, Chrono Cross, Suikoden IV, Granstream Saga, Wind Waker, Skies of Arcadia... ok, that's a bit more than I expected.
Ha! Right?!?! The thing is, I loved almost all those games, but the "island life" kind of aesthetic just doesn't do it for me.
Hah! Nevef thought about this, but there definitely was an ocean/island phase, especially for starts of games: Star Ocean 3, Grandia 3, Kingdom Hearts, Magna Carta 2, Arc the Lad End of Darkness, Shining Tears, Tales of Legendia... Not an rpg, but LoZ Windwaker was definitely part of that phase.
I COUNTER-reviewed this game in the comments of the Gamespot review video on this game, it seems I won't have to do that here! I love this game, it may be slow to start, but it really is a great game! =D
Oh man, that running animation, haha..
definitely one of the greatest of all time!
Yet another RPG series that I've always been meaning to get into and yet never got around to doing so. Might look into getting this or 3 at some point.
The whole series is 100 percent worth a look. Part 2 is crazy expensive, and probably will be forever, so now's a good time to fire up the old ps1 emulator. The ps2 entries are pretty reasonably priced, if memory serves me.
Good to know. I'm sure I'll be able to find one of them for a decent price if I look hard enough.
Definitely my favorite RPG series, can't wait for the spiritual successor
A high encounter rate is a serious deal breaker.
Can't blame you there. I feel the same way, but underneath that, there's a really fun game. Plus, you sort of get used to it after a while.
I didn't know there was a dash button for running and sailing for the first 7 hours🧐🤨🧐😟😕🙁😬
I really liked this one. The atmosphere and general feel of it wasn't like any other game and as someone from a seafaring family and living in an island nation I loved the theme of it. I was all about seeing new places and meeting people to add to my crew. The encounter rate didn't bother me till near the end of the game when I had taken advantage of it to sufficiently level up my entire crew and it no longer had any purpose.
My PS2 went through a weird phase the summer I got this game where the only two games that worked on it for months were this game and Dragon Quest VIII but somehow it went back to normal and still works fine to this day. At least the two games that worked were RPGs that would last me till it worked properly again :)
Haven't played this since the PS2 days but now that I have a debug PS3 I should perhaps give it another go and see how the graphics look on it. I somehow remembered it looking worse than this but maybe that's just because all I've seen from this game since then was the main character with those weird eyes.
That's a stroke of luck. Having a broken ps2 sucks, but if it only plays super long rpgs, that takes the edge off. I was genuinely impressed. I went in expecting it to be bad, but I ended up liking it. As for the game looking good maybe that has to do with the framemeister I'm feeding my ps2 through. (sorry, I don't enough chances to brag about that).
I get it, I've been bragging a lot about my debug PS3 lately.
But as of late they've been cheaper than a Framemeister so you could get in on it too if you want :P
Interesting video as always, i bought the first suikoden game on my vita a while ago but i never really managed to fully get into it, i hope i do at some point just cause i think the battles look amazing.
About what you said regarding grinding, i think the RPG that made me see grinding as something other than an artificial game lengthener was Bravely Default. That game let you change everything from encounter rate to battle speed, auto battle settings, a fast forward button... Giving the player complete control over the rhythm of each fight made the game a lot more enjoyable for me: when i just wanted to see more story i could blast through battles and when i wanted to try out new party compositions i could change the game's difficulty and pace accordingly; it was such a great system.
My wife absolutely loved that game. I haven't played it for more than an hour myself, but on paper, that sounds awesome. When I think about grinding, it's typically not about grinding before a mandatory boss or anything. I think about playing FF7 and grinding just to see what that next limit level would bring. I'm not the biggest fan of mandatory grinding. For example, when devs make a boss so hard that you have no choice but to spend an hour or two grinding. I like games that make you want to grind.
New age hipster dorks HA!!!!!! Yes we sure do love ourselves a good grind indeed, and I sure do love how characters run in this game I could watch it all day! Good luck with your summer of Suikoden Jared, how many of them are you gonna try to tackle from now until labor day?
I'll just be covering this one and a side story called suikogaiden, but collectively, we're going to be covering every game in the series.
Avalanche Reviews kew, can't wait. You watch any Castlevaina this weekend I thought that shit was tits right there!
I love Rpg's but I absolutely hate grinding, while I generally prefer JRPG's, this is something western do much better IMO.
I don't play too many western rpgs, but I would have to assume that they have less grind because they often have larger/open worlds.
No, I still haven't given it a watch. I've been hearing a ton of good things though.
Excellent review. I will say, however, that I am disappointed that you didn't mentioned what is probably the greatest thing about this game; the opening title sequence track La Mer by Coba! I takes what are essentially pretty boring cutscenes in the game and makes them "feel" exciting and sort of implies that an epic adventure is in store for the player. Also of note is that Coba (Yasuhiro Kobayashi) is a very interesting musician in his own right. If memory serves, this is one of the games that I bought shortly after it's release, then came back to complete years later.
Thanks! I just looked up that artist, and "interesting" is an understatement. That guy has some crazy songs. Very talented stuff, even though I've never considered myself a fan of the accordion. HA!
Yeah, neither did I but that guy makes it work. Btw, I have been thoroughly been enjoying your channel. You RE retrospectives have been great!
One of the best Suikoden games
Really? I don't hear that too often. I loved it, but I wouldn't say it's my favorite.
Yes i love this game,for me from best to worst are:Suikoden 2,Suikoden 4,Suikoden 5,Suikoden,Suikoden 3.
Although i love them all.
But i see many bad critics for this game and very good ones for 3 but for me personally Suikoden 4 is much better then Suikoden 3!
I can agree with that. 4 is far better than 3
I actually enjoyed Suikoden IV, my third favorite within the series. Much better game than the often praised Suikoden V with its atrocious loading times and slow battle animations.
Man I haven't played 5 in a long time, and this is going to sound petty, but one of my bigest problems with it was the character design. Everyone just looked sort of simple and I really didn't like that.
I enjoyed the character design, though they only look good in cut-scenes. The actual gameplay graphics are really subpar and everything looks bland as a result.
Strange, because 5 really is the second best in the series. It too suffers from a slow start (but it serves to flesh out a bunch of the characters and makes you care more about them and the tragedy that occurs, which you wouldn't if you were thrown into the action right away). 5 has the best combat system, best army battles, tons of overall refinements, tons of great detail (extra scenes and stuff up the wazoo), dialogue choices that actually matter more (liking point system, which to be fair isn't really explained) and so on. I'd argue that 3 and 4 are easily the weakest entries in the series. 3 has absolutely atrocious pacing, tons of backtracking, worst combat system, worst army battle system, etc. Yes 5 isn't without problems (but none of the Suikoden games are perfect, even 2 has issues like frankly pretty shoddy localization), but even so I would never rank it any lower than top 3 in the series.
PS2 Classic...
The ps2, had a boatload of underappreciated rpgs like this.
I've actually finished this game last month with my brother and I did enjoy my time with suikoden 4 but I actually thought that the story was meh compared to the other suikoden. I liked certain characters like Hervey, Sigurd and Kika but most of the others cast I couldn't connect with especially Snowe. There were also times where I felt that some characters felt like clones when it comes to the fighting animations. Also I couldn't help but laugh at lazlo because of his design and that running animation it's too funny I definitely agree with you on that. Overall good review man and keep it up!
Thank you man. I appreciate that.
You weren't really supposed to connect with Snowe lol
I remember playing a demo of this game a long time back at Gamestop. I was looking for a copy of .hack and couldn't help but notice the main characters walk cycle. Lmao
I swear I'll get a copy of this game sometime soon. I've always loved these games and still have no idea why I hadn't played this one yet. Great review once again man!
Thanks a bunch! It'll probably hold its current value for a while, so even if it takes a while to get it, you wont have to worry about paying too much for it.
Avalanche Reviews Awesome. I'm sure I can find a copy online somewhere. Maybe Amazon or Bullmoose. Btw do you plan to cover Suikoden V? It seems to be the fan favorite of the series (though it's not mine) If so I can't wait!
This was my introduction to Suikoden IV and really enjoyed it... Eventually. It took a couple tries to get over that initial boring bit, as I recall.
Yeah, there was a couple of times where I just wasn't interested in playing, but when I got over that first hump, I was all in.
Odd request, but...
I've not played any RPGs on PS2 (except for FF XII) until recently. I've noticed a lot of them have voice acting outside of the pre-scripted cutscenes, like this game and FF X.
What other good RPGs are there on PS2 (or elsewhere) that have this thing?
Off the top of my head, I can think of the Persona games, Shadow hearts series, the Tales games, Growlanser 3 and 4. That's all I can come up with, but I'm sure there's more.
Nah the constant battles is a deal breaker for me. Gives me nightmares of Final Fantasy 7 where every step I took was a battle.
Amazing review as always!!!!
Thanks man!
Great review (like always), and that run animation... Anyway, any chance to make a Rogue Galaxy review?
You can count on it!
is the ps3 store version that you have to download any better than just using the ps2 disc on a ps3?
This is your best review yet! I wasn't gonna play this but im definitely gonna give it a shot now! 5-7 hours for the story to pick up is totally doable. I've watched anime that take triple that to get going lol encounter rate sounds dreadful but I trust your recommendation that it's worth it. I just gotta get past Suikoden 3 first haha
Also I totally agree about games that just speed up the walk cycle for running lol hate that shit but suikoden has always been low budget in a great way. I love summer of suikoden!
Fuck yeah man! Glad ya liked it. You're right about Suikoden. It has always been a real low budget series. I wouldn't be surprised if 2 was the most expensive game in the series.
Oh hey, I recently managed to pick this up for a good price. I've only played the first two. Suikoden 3 never made it over here sadly. I should really get to playing it...
Nice! That's good timing.
I heard from a few reviewers saying something like stay away from this game. My first Suikoden was 2 and believe or not it was a year ago when I first play it. I really enjoyed 2 and I really like how there's a huge number of recruits more number then chrono cross. I like how a game gives you a place to build or rebuild be recruit allies, after listening to you I may try the game. I need to play 2 again and I'm going to have to start over since I lost my last copy. It's too bad there's no vita verson for this. Plus Cat ally= yes :3 Thanks for the review bro.
Cat allies and video games are a winning combination! The crappy thing about you losing your copy of S2 is the fact that it's one of the most expensive ps1 games out there right now. This is a prime time to consider emulation my man. Really though, it doesn't matter how you do it, you're absolutely right about having to play it again.
actually the last one was an emulation I just didn't know what you response to that was. But no worries I have it's on my ps3 and vita so now it's legit.
Damn, I didn't even think of the PSN version! That makes it so much easier to play in a legit way.
I know right.
I own a physical copy of this also Suikoden Tactics and Suikoden 3 but I've never played them
i loved this game, i mean, at the time i was probably angry about it because it wasnt good as the first 2 ones, and it didnt had the nostalgic feelings like the 3rd one, but i played it until i did everything in the game and ended up appreciating it.
and yeah, the running animation convinced me that the protagonist suffered diarrhea for the whole game
but mostly, i loved the soundtrack and tons of the characters
As someone who's favorite genre are JRPGs, I can say that I heavily dislike when they make grinding a requirement. Imo, every good JRPG should be balanced around fights being at a reasonable difficulty as long as you don't run away from any encounters on your way to the next boss fight, (not including backtracking for things)
If you can hit that sweet spot then that's perfect.
That's the one reason I've never been able to get into Disgaea despite enjoying the little bit of its story I liked, being forced to grind literally feels like I'm wasting my time and kills pacing for me.
Although maybe I should include an asterisk for if the game has an auto battle option and a speed up option like Bravely Default and Bravely Second, those games were rather painless to grind to max level thanks to that, so if you feel the need to have grinding then please at least include systems like that
But don't you feel like the speed up and auto battle options, kind of negate the grinding? At that point, the grinding should just be done away with. I tend to enjoy conservative amounts of grinding, but if you need to include a mechanic to skip that stuff, why include it at all? That's always perplexed me.
Fair enough honestly, and I know there's definitely people that enjoy grinding itself, considering the disgaea series prides itself on that, I just find it pace breaking if you're not doing it for super bosses or the like
i played this when it came out ,totally forgot about this game XD
I remember it got low reviews in some gaming magazines i used to read back then ,but i enjoyed it
Yeah, I remember it getting some poor reviews. I wonder if any of those reviewers pushed past the beginning and got to the good part of the game.
Yah know what. If someone did a Fire Emblem VS Suikoden? That might be a thing.
Great review dude, I watched many today and yours the best, I will give this game a try, I did subscribe keep the videos comming, thx
Very awesome to hear! Thank you!!
i spent the whole game forgiving snowe and he just would not let me :(
My issue with 4 was... the ocean...
Yeah, can't say I disagree.
this and star ocean came out around same time
I plan on covering Till the End of Time one day.
Ugh one few RPGs ever bitched about random encounter rate
Other thing I hated was scaling back to 4 team party vs the 6 party
But honestly looking back on it I did enjoy the story and lots links to S1 but out 1-4 (as I never really got into tactics and finally got my hands on clean boxed/booklet copy of V with out selling my soul so haven't played it yet) think its the weakest
Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. I remember 3 playing pretty poorly, but having really cool characters. I guess with a series so varied as suikoden, you can expect some fluctuation in quality. It's been a long long time since I played 5. Planning on dusting off my copy pretty soon hopefully.
All my friends said skip IV, V is better. But I can't get myself to play Suiko V, it's just to slow. IV animation feels clunky and the environments are really bland compared to III, but still very enjoyable. The ship headquarters gives it a unique feel.
Also, Ted & Soul Eater is in the game. That's a win.
You've probably answered this before, but which games appear in the intro?
I tried to get into Suikeden 2 or 3 and just the beginings are soo damn slow and I'm hit with this feeling of "where do I go, what do I do?!" it's never clear what the game wants me to do besides talk to everyone.
It's been a while since I played 2, but I can't really remember a point where I didn't know where to go. As for 3, you could be right, I barely remember that one.
KONAMI is being FUCKING LAZY that Suikoden 4
"A few bad decisions", eh? I have not a fucking slightest tiny fucking idea HOW in the world someone could test run this game and decide "Yep, this battle rate is perfect". This is fucking incomprehensible. All it would take to fix the issues is to lessen the battle rate and increase exp gain to compensate. What were they thinking? Whoever is behind this decision, they should not be allowed to make games. They literally fucking ruined this game and made it borderline unplayable. My words are confirmed by countless critics and the death of Suikoden franchise. And the run animation? How HARD it was to do a proper run animation? It's not some indie shit, it's a work of professionals. It was either a joke or the director of this game was massively incompetent. Fucking unbelievable
Great game great review
The main character's design is bloody awful. That haircut, and those shorts. Nope, can't do it.
Ha! Well, I can't really say you're wrong.
King of girly runs? Don't you mean "Queen" of girly run?
I stand corrected.
No, because the main character is a man. He is the king of the girly run.
He's also dressed like a girl. I wouldn't mind a girl dressed like that, as long as she's cute of course. The haircut too, reminds me of Chie from Persona 4.
I honestly hated 4 which is wierd since I keep hearing 5 was apparently a worse game. A mix of the world map the really dull location designs around the world and Snowes bitch-ass kinda killed my ability to care really early on. I honestly couldn't wait for the game to end even during the meaty bits of it.
The reason why suikoden 4 wasnt a favorite.. its because the protagonist looks like chuckie.. >.>
What is it about Snowes being utterly punchable every time?
It's a constant among all games
i feel suikoden 4 too short for me... that why tactic exists though
Here's another recommendation for a "trashed classic:" Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver or even Blood Omen. Man, I miss that series
I was actually planing on playing through all three of those games. I don't remember a lot about the soul rever games, but I loved the first LoK.
Avalanche Reviews They're well worth your time. Blood Omen was about as old school as you could get in terms of top-down, narrative-driven adventure games. The jewel was LoK: Soul Reaver. Though I felt like the story grew richer (and simultaneously more scattered) with Soul Reaver 2 and ultimately Defiance, you'd be hard pressed to find better voice acting and world building. I never played Blood Omen 2 to be honest, but felt a pang of longing when "Dead Sun" was scrapped. I played Soul Reaver first and felt Blood Omen filled in the history (pillars of Nosgoth, Kain's origins and ultimately damnation of the land)
Nice! I'm stoked to give them a whirl after all this time.
Soul Reaver wasn't trashed (it's generally regarded as one of the better games in the series), but Blood Omen 2 definately is pretty trash.
I only enjoy this game bec of the Sea Battles
I highly disagree with the grinding part, my favortie RPGs from the snes era are chrono trigger and secreto of gaya/time and terranigma which don't make you grind, I even put most modern JRPGs in easy , not because I don't like a challenge the opposite is the case, but I like a challenge in form of gameplay not having to run in circles for hours to grind just to be able to face a final boss
Then it sounds like you enjoy action rpgs, and I do too, but when a game is based on your skill with the controller, grinding is unnecessary. In a game where you're choosing commands from a menu, having higher stats only comes from smart planning and higher levels. Also, there are more than a couple of side areas in Chrono Trigger that require a bit of grinding. The son of the sun boss comes to mind.
I actualy love turn based strategy with RPG elements, but like I say : elements, I'm talking vandal hearts, x-com, front mission, I love planing in fact FFX is my favorite in part because of it's amazing turn based combat , I like playing disgaea games once through the story I can't bring myself to grind to level 9999 mutliple times to create strong characters. PS: if by grinding to defeat the son of the sun you mean advancing a little more in the story sure, but that's it, every time I have finished CC I have defeated every normal enemie and I only ever lost because I didn't undertand(or remebered) how to defeat a boss (though I have never fought the special boss of the DS version)
Ya know, I wasn't a huge fan of the battle system in FFX. I liked a lot of games that had similar systems, like Grandia, but for some reason, FFX never gave me that same satisfied feeling. I did enjoy the sphere grid though.
I disagree with the statement that you don't need to grind in Terranigma. Bloody Mary says hi.
Every Suikoden main character has a canon name from the manga adaptations. S4's MC's canon name is Lazlo... Its awful.
S4's also been released as a PS2 Classic on PS3.
store.playstation.com/#!/en-us/games/suikoden-iv/cid=UP9000-NPUD20979_00-0000000000000000
Fuck yeah!
i rpg fan hate grinding
the reason i finished more garbage games like mass effect or new vegas than good games
come to think of it, i probably finished only fallout 1 and 2 out of good rpgs
+tsartomato I loved FO 1 and 2, but I appreciate games with grind in them too
i played a little wow and got bored extremely fast
i can't do the same thing again and again, hence i don't play generic games
i can tolerate grind only with pvp and when there is extremely strong and desired meta, like unlocking new tanks in WOT or new ships in cloud pirates or new heroes in marvel heroes
Huge majority of Modern Game Critiques/Journalist are normies to begin with and are trying to blend into the Gaming Community..
Basically paid outsiders trying to be a part of something where they don't really belong..
I don't disagree
I think the game was a bit rushed actually.
That would explain a lot
It's merely a theory, one thrown around alot in a LP of it on something awful (Said LP now on LPArchive for all to see.), but like you said, it would explain alot.
108 playable characters?
that's a instant turn off ,not happening for me.
too many characters is an incredible understatement.
I hated Suikoden 4.
Mostly because i played it not too long after Suikoden 2, which was faster, better looking, didn't had the terrible voice acting, didn't made traveling a shore and it allowed you to have a party of 6.
If they had done Suikoden 4 as a 2d game, like 2 was, i'm sure it would be miles better than what it is.
I say that about most games I play honestly. You just can't beat a 2d rpg.
I fired up Suikoden 2 again, and i had completely forgoten that the game gives the backstory of your character, your father/mentor, your sister and your best friend with no dialog with piano music on the background.
That game only gets better as i play it again :P.