Plastic Parts vs Bone and Tusq, Can you Hear a Difference?
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- Опубліковано 27 бер 2021
- Today I am replacing the Plastic Saddle and Bridge on a beautiful Epiphone Jumbo Acoustic guitar with a Tusq saddle, and also installing a hand-made bone nut. Follow the journey and listen to the sound comparisons and see if you can hear a difference. Let me know if you would be interested in a modification like this on your instrument.
#bone #plastic #tusq #parts #difference
The bone nut and bridge are definitely better. The brightness, and the sustain really improved greatly. It does come through on the video. Great job bud!!
Love my EJ 200 , I just bought a bone nut, saddle and bridge pins. I'm going to do a fret level, crown and polish as well. She's been rode hard and put up wet and needs some love. Great video, the before and after was really helpful. Thanks for sharing !
Glad you enjoyed it Carl!
Hard to tell a sound comparison with the recording device you used, but the intonation (especially noticeable on the D chord) was so much better after you changed everything over.
Well done!
Hey, Thanks for watching this video. This was my first youtube video. I am revisiting this topic right now in a three part series with better information, recording techniques and equipment. I’d love it if you subscribed to see the results as I post them. Part 2 of the series comes out this week!
Slotting the bridge makes a big difference as well!
Great video and yes,I think there's a more subtle sound with probably less treble coming through. Skilled work.
nice work Adam, tone and response is 100% better with bone.
just picked up a 70s mij cortez jumbo copy soumds incredible plays great just need to get rid of all the plastic im just worried theres a crack running along the length of the bridge in front of the brideg pins doesnt seem to affect it yet but im gonna take it to the local shop and have it set up or maybe ill do it myself only have 400$ in it so i a can afford to put a little more into to it to make it sound its best thanks for the video
It sounds really good that!
Nice work you have done ✅☺️
Thank you!
The biggest difference you'll notice is in-between the sound hole and bridge when picking no matter what nut and saddle material you're using.
good job mate🙌
which nut was the middle clip?
Top end is better defined and upper middle seems to be a little sweeter. Nice job! 👍
Sooo, you adjusted the action by cutting the grooves deeper on the nut (making the strings sit deeper in the nut) instead of adjusting the overall height of the nut?
Yes, Carter. When making a new nut, I get the new nut flat and square, then make sure it’s seating really well, then measure and cut the nut slots down to the proper depth.
The only time you adjust the overall height of the nut is if the nut is too low and needs to be raised with the addition of a shim, and you are trying to keep the old nut.
You wouldn’t remove material from the bottom of the nut to adjust nut height for a couple reasons: 1) there is a chance/likelyhood that you could mess up the nut’s flat/square relationship between the bottom and the side facing the fretboard. In most cases this angle should be perpendicular and needs to make full contact for maximum vibration transfer. 2) each string’s height needs to be set individually because each string is a different width.
I just bought the same guitar and it’s with my luthier getting the same upgrades. I just stumbled across this video. Question, did you record the audio on this from a smart phone or did you use a real mic?
This was my first YT video ever so yeah it was with my iphone propped up on a stool. Check out my more recent video where I revisit the topic for a more in-depth look at the issue, and better recording methods!
Nice job, but you didn't demo how the guitar sounded with the original plastic nuts in place in order to compare with the new bone nuts?
Yeah man, the first clips, starting at 10:14 are the guitar as it came to me with a plastic nut and saddle: ua-cam.com/video/sIx5t-Ld48E/v-deo.html
I think the Epiphone J-200 might have slightly thicker internal braces. I worked on two of them and they are not like the Gibson J-200.
Hi Adam, thanks for this great content. Any chance that you still have the part number for the Tusq saddle? I own a similar EJ-200. Thanks in advance.
Tetsu, the best bet is to go to Graphtech’s website and follow their instructions for sizing. That’s what I did to buy this one. Follow this link: graphtech.com/collections/tusq-saddles-acoustic
@@MillerCustomGuitars thanks for getting back to me. Did you end up sanding down to length? I can't seem to find an exact 74mm/ 2.913" (my measurement could be wrong). The closest I can see are 73.6mm/ 2.90" and 76.72mm/ 3.020" compensated.
@@tetsu83 yes. They recommend buying them a little long and then fitting them to size which is what I’ve done every time.
I'm putting a bone saddle and nut on my guitar for this reason. More life, resonance, and range
Im adding bone bridge pins too but that doesn't do anything it's really just to match the nut and saddle.
Nice! Let me know how it turns out!
Where did you buy your nut files,I know they make cheap set up kits but the nut file is nothing but tip cleaners for a torch. That must be an older Epiphone cause it looks like a 1 and 3 quarters fretboard. It's really hard to tell the difference online. you need to use a feeler guage although I have used business card before being a technician to set air gap. they are approx 0.010 which I thick is a little high
I don’t remember where I bought my nut files, but they are the Hosco ones. I do use feeler gauges, but not when making a nut.
Nice video!
Thanks for watching! This was literally my first ever UA-cam video and now I have the bug. I have two channels now, lol. Stay tuned because in the coming months I should be posting a Follow Up video to this one! Make sure to Subscribe!
My acoustic guitar has a natural bright and crispy tone, so when I was using the bone it becomes to crispy, I'll stick to plastic though.
I'm new to this stuff so sorry if i said something wrong. Does the nut really matter? When you play, your fingers press on the strings so the strings on the other side doesn't vibrate. Therefore, would a different nut even make a difference?
Hey bud no such thing as a bad question. Let me see if I can explain clearly: 1) the nut only directly effects the tone on the six open, unfretted strings. But these six notes are the most important on the guitar to get right, because they are used most often on the guitar. Think about how many chords have an open string! Tons of them! Think of how many riffs incorporate open strings! 2) How important is it to get the nut right? Well, getting your nut set up correctly is probably most important thing you can do for your guitar. The nut determines your string spacing, string height, and follows the radius of your fretboard. If it’s too low, your notes will buzz and sound horrible, if it’s too high, even a little too high, you will pull notes out of tune just by fretting them when you fret in the first 6 frets or lower.
Nuts are very tricky to learn, but not impossible. If you’re not sure you can take it to a tech.
@@MillerCustomGuitars Oh okay I see now, thank you so much!
what is the chord progression u used from 10:58 onwARDS ..sounded so beautiful and airy
Thanks! Those are inversions of E, A, Asus, C#m, and B open chords. If you make a “B” shaped power chord (X244XX) you can slide this up to the seventh fret and play it with all the notes ringing and it becomes and open E (079900). Drop that down to the fourth fret and it becomes a C#m. If you are interested, I can make a quick video on these open chords.
@@MillerCustomGuitars I loved that progression & would definitely like to see a video showing these chords! It would be super cool of you to take the time to do that!🙂
Man this guitar is beautiful I have been thinking of buying it but I don’t have anyone around to do this. Do they do this kind of stuff at guitar center/Sam ash?
Any decent local shop should be able to replace a saddle or bridge
whatever you do, don't take it to GC!
@@soulgamblers thanks for the head up. Lol
what tusq saddle did you get for your epiphone i would to try it on my epi
If you watch this video, I talk about how to shop for saddles: ua-cam.com/video/PNOA8OupAk4/v-deo.html
I can hear a change , after changes it became more delicate , maybe more balaced sound , did it loose some lows ? 🤔 , i really liked it 🤗
Thanks for your input. I don’t have the best recording setup, so it’s difficult to really tell about the low end. In the room, the bass response was about the same but with more sustain. To my ears, and my customer agreed with me, the huge difference was in the upper mids and presence, as well as harmonic content and sustain. The guitar had a much more nuanced and responsive tone and voice after the change.
@@MillerCustomGuitars yes , you really improved the tone ,more balance sound ,more armonics , more hights . congrats! 😃👍 . About the nut it seems even when not playing open strings a diferent material changes the sound (this influence can be checked playing a fretted note with/ without a capot ) Great video !
Glad you enjoyed the video!
@@MillerCustomGuitars It sounded pretty impressive. Ideal for Leo Kottke to play, too,🤔
So why not a bone saddle to go with the bone nut? Would it be better than the tusk saddle?
At the time I did not have the experience necessary to cut a bone saddle. I have improved my skills since then and could do that now. The Tusq ones are nice though because they are already radiused and compensated and have consistent density.
Also, this wasn’t what the customer asked for.
Hmm. For this test to be more accurate you should have put on a fresh set with the plastic setup and done the recording of “before”. You doing a setup also does change the sound in and of itself. There are too many variables that aren’t the same. Was the new bridge saddle the same height as the old for example?
Anyway, I enjoyed watching your . It’s a great subject to cover.
You said it yourself. It’s impossible to eliminate every variable. This was a simple everyman comparison. “This guitar with these parts compared to the same guitar with these new parts using the same strings.” No matter how the test was conducted, I believe that any acoustic guitar with a plastic nut and saddle would have the tone improved by having those replaced with either bone or tusq.
@@MillerCustomGuitars Do agree, bone or tusq is superior to plastic. Nice job btw,👌
Where can I find a bone or tusq saddle for sj-300??
Bone saddles are usually handmade, you can buy premade Tusq saddles from many online sellers. I believe I got this one on Amazon
I had to replace the tusq on my new Gibson J45 Red Wine with bone. It sounded metallic and tinny. Bone is much better. On my '64 J50, the ceramic sounds awesome. Going to try replacing it with tusq.
Check out my newest video on the subject: ua-cam.com/video/PNOA8OupAk4/v-deo.html
The Tusq saddle and nut sure make a difference. I have the same guitar, can you tell me the part number for the saddle? Thanks
From experience it's more to do with maintenance. I have two guitars with tusq saddles and one bone. It seems the bone saddles remain smooth throughout their life span whereas when the tusq starts to wear it form sharp groove which causes the string to break. It's an easy fix with a file but still annoying
Wow, this is great information!
@@MillerCustomGuitars Observations I have made when restringing different guitars, the bone saddles stay nice and smooth throughout their lifespan (even at 20 years old), the tusq ones develop burs that break the strings if you don't file them down
@@oliverk191 I have never heard that. I know that can be a problem with steel saddles. I and preparing to do a follow up video to this one and I will keep that In mind.
what kind of strings is he using?
David, this was so long ago that for the life of me I can’t remember!
I can't hear the difference . I switched out the plastic nut and saddle to bone and no difference in sound quality.
it's all very, very subjective, i have a 66 gibson j45 and a 69 epiphone texan that normally sound quite different to each other (i can't be arsed telling the spec) but today they sounded identical when i recorded them - guitars are weird and you could have two made with the same wood from the same stock on the same day made by the same guy and they'll sound completely different. the only thin i agree with is that plastic is not a good medium for sound transfer, i had a dione twin neck that was brass nut and saddle and brass frets - that sounded unique!
Hi I have same model of guitar can you tell the model number of tusq saddle
Check out my most recent video on the same topic, where I talk about, trying to find the right saddle for your guitar: ua-cam.com/video/PNOA8OupAk4/v-deo.html
Hey I guess the pq 9276 or you can use the blank LQ 9000 . I used the LQ 9000 in my Ej300 en the 9276 in my Ej200 . Beware of string notches from wear , tusq wears out quicker than bone ...
Does bridge pins affects the tone as well?
Hey man, that’s a really good question. I personally can’t imagine that it would affect the sound very much, if at all. However, some people claim that it does. I may take a look at this sometime in the future. But honestly, I can’t imagine that the difference would be very significant. At least, nowhere nearly a significant as something like changing your strings would make.
@@MillerCustomGuitars You would be surprised.
@@tomformanek3312 Well, let me rephrase. I know that on and Acoustic Guitar basically everything affects the tone for some degree. However, I can’t imagine that the bridge pin material affects your tone as much as some thing like, say, nut and saddle material does. And not nearly as much as just changing your strings does.
@@MillerCustomGuitars It depends on the guitar. First plastic is soft and poorly transfers tone to the top. Tusq emphasizes parts of the tonal pallette as does bone. The key is finding a combination of strings and pins to achieve a certain sound and create a balance desired among all 6 strings.
The saddle gives a crispness to the tone, but the pins anchor the strings to base plate (usually maple) and that drives the top in addition to the downward pressure from the saddle and bridge.
I have had Tusq pins drive me crazy throwing string to string volume off and have come to put bone on any acoustic. Also replacing pins is a time to insure a snug fit of the pins just like you would do with a saddle.
Yes pins to make a difference. I bought a bunch of bone pins off Amazon and outfit all my acoustics with them and it made a difference for sure. Definitely worth $9-12 per set.
More response, sustain, wider frequency range and so on...
Totally agree!
I mod a lot of acoustics with Bone nut, Intonated Bone saddle and wood pins. I have experimented with plastic, bone, tusq and brass. Imho i can hear and so can my customers the difference between bone and plastic. A lot of people say the end pins have NOTHING to do with the sound, i disagree. Wood allows vibrations to freely move, while plastic deadens the tone. ANY extra vibration from the bridge area helps. Overall for the cheap price and small amount of time it costs to upgrade, im shocked by how much better it makes the guitars sound and how you can take a cheap acoustic and make it sound like a guitar thats 3x the price.
Take for example a Yamaha F-335. Its one of the best selling acoustics and it sounds pretty decent for the price. Once i upgraded the parts it was like a different guitar, more sustain. more definition etc. I found that Bone is the best. Did not like brass (on an acoustic). Tusq is ok. Plastic is garbage.
You can buy a set of a bone nut and intonated bone saddle for $10 shipped. Yeah your gonna have to mess with the nuts height and the string slot depth. Also your gonna have to level the saddle to the right height. But this is easy for a lot of us and i would recommend this project for anyone looking to learn how to do work on their guitars.
Thanks for the video and keep jammin :-)
Great information!
There have been countless videos of nut materials testing done and one tusq is superior to bone in two ways, its lubricity and its consitency. SOME bone may be superior but some bone certainly is not. I bet in a blind test you wouldnt be able to tell the difference no offense but too many guitarist listen with their eyes. Plastic is garbage.
@@fastabyss
Right and only on open strings can hear a difference. Very little to no difference in bone and tusq.
I've had people tell me they can hear the difference playing full bar chords or playing with a capo on. LoL
For the price of that thing, I'm guessing around $800 that should not be that far out of intonation. The before clips you did, the F# on the high E was so far out it made me squint. The after sounds much much better and it looks good too.
The crazy thing is that I had another customer bring in an almost identical guitar to this last week, but without the electronics and he wanted me to install a Fishman Rare Earth Magnetic Soundhole Pickup. He said he paid $20 for it from someone who didn't know what it was. It was in perfect condition, and didn't need a setup or anything.
Really?? Do you use a guitar tuner on your guitars, or are your ears so good you could calibrate a guitar tuner by ear?
@@th-pl3nx I absolutely cannot tune by ear. Even after 27+ years are playing guitar, I find it impossible. I only ever tune with a tuner.
@@MillerCustomGuitars Then how do you know thos dude was out of tune?? Makes no sense at all.
@@th-pl3nx i don’t understand your question. My response to the previous poster was talking about an identical guitar that was brought in for a pickup install that, after installation, required no additional work to be done to the setup.
Some of the new plastics out there now are very different. Especially the ones used on heat-proof cooking utensils. They seem much harder than the old plastic we might be used to. Personally, I favor glass or ceramic.
Seriously, Glass? For saddles?!? That’s cool! How does that work?
@@MillerCustomGuitars It's cut on a diamond saw like any common ceramic My feeling is that ceramic has the same properties but is much easier to work with and is as cheap as dirt. Glass, ceramic, and metal have extremely rapid sound propagation properties and seem better suited to string termination and vibration transmission. The only real difference is the ease of fabrication. Self-ringing does not seem to be a problem with metals as they are essentially fused to their substrates.
@@MillerCustomGuitars Bear in mind that the nut is just sitting on a wooden base. It's not a giant leap of logic to tell that it makes very little difference what a sliver of material is going to do to the sound.
A friend owns an Ottawa guitar shop. He stopped selling Epiphones due to
ratio of garbage vs fair.
It must depend. I have an Epiphone ES-335 that is absolutely fire. However, before I got that one, I did get one of the same model in the mail from guitar center that was basically unplayable.
Good sounding but i heard a fret buzz
Yeah the bass e string buzzed a couple of times
There is an audible difference, it could be just due to new strings too.
if you listen to the intro he says he used the same strings
@@JohnnyMagorish ????
@@seangoff9578 The intro is the beginning of the video.
👍
Why not add a Sticker to the front saying, plastic, bone or tusk installed.
That way, it’s easier to focus on what difference in sounds that show up.
Logical ?
The same with comparing guitars, say, between a Gibson and a Taylor of the same class. A sticker with big letterings helps the listener pay attention to the differences.
Good idea ?
Ha man! You have a really good point. But if you look through my videos, you will see that this was literally my first one when I started making guitar how to videos. I didn’t know how to do that back then. This is definitely something I would add to a video nowadays, if I were to make the same video now. I had almost no idea at all what I was doing back then. Lol. Thanks for watching, however. I hope you enjoyed it
Stfu and dont be lazy. Great video!! Crystal clear with explaination and demo
Did the same to an Epiphone SQ-180 wich sounded exactly that flat... night and day difference! Come on: scrap that plastic thing!
Bone matters only on an acoustic guitar--at the bridge.
Check out the video where I revisit this topic. Personally, I believe that the nut is quite possibly the most critical component relating to a guitar’s playability and setup, and yes I believe that it affects tone.
Plastic, Bone, and Tusq: Sound Comparison and Finalizing Acoustic Setup. Nut and Saddle Series pt. 3
ua-cam.com/video/73b3PEUcMkA/v-deo.html
@@MillerCustomGuitars You're describing slot height and cut.
Such a nice guitar, they went cheap on the saddle, yikes.
10:15, 11:29
Thanks bud! That’s helpful
Comes through a bit more 'open' to my ears with the change in materials.
Those epiphone’s just don’t sound that great. You improved it but it’s just how they sound. 15 years ago I went thru all these different acoustics and I learned a lot.
If you want a good sounding acoustic don’t buy it from epiphone. In that price range buy a Yamaha FG830, comes with scalloped braces, solid spruce top, laminated back and sides. You can get one in the same sunburst finish for $350. If you pay about a hundred fifty more get a Blueridge. Which will sound the closest to an actual Martin. A BR60 is a Blueridge with solid top, forward X bracing and laminated rosewood back and sides, bone nut and saddle for about $500.
I remember being really impressed on how those epiphone’s looked but when I played it I was severely disappointed.
Or save up and get a Martin. They have several different lines now, ranging in price and they all sound amazing.
I really love the Blueridge brand. I’ve had two of them!
@@MillerCustomGuitars yeah they are great sounding acoustics! I worked as a sales rep for saga musical instruments back in the 90’s.
The Blueridge guitars have come a long way since I worked there. They always were a good sounding guitar but they really did improve upon themselves with tone and finish. I learned a lot from working as a Rep there.
@@wyattsdad8561Wondering if you have an opinion on Yamaha F455 made in Taiwan? I have had one since 1990 and would like to have it sound better. Nice blue burst but sounds a bit dead compared to a Maton that I also have.
@@micko4071 I don’t have one on them. I haven’t heard one.
how much the tust saddle sir?
You can get them from many online retailers. I usually buy them from Amazon. If you go to the Tusq website, they have all the different models so you can make sure to get the right one with the proper radius to match your guitar.
Graph tech sells them for usually under $20!
Those frets look a bit worn.
That may have been the case. But Josh didn’t bring his guitar in for frets. Lol
Don't fret too much about that...
Doesn't make a difference when a note is fretted. It only makes a difference on an open string
Check out my most recent video on this topic where I look at this again with better recording equipment and techniques. Tell me what you think. I think materials make a huge difference.
@@MillerCustomGuitars it's all very, very subjective, i have a 66 gibson j45 and a 69 epiphone texan that normally sound quite different to each other (i can't be arsed telling the spec) but today they sounded identical when i recorded them - guitars are weird and you could have two made with the same wood from the same stock on the same day made by the same guy and they'll sound completely different. the only thing i agree with is that plastic is not a good medium for sound transfer, i had a dione twin neck that was brass nut and saddle and brass frets - that sounded unique! it's great to make these videos, but a complete waste of time. even your hands, fingers, finger nails (mine are like steel) and plectrums will affect the sound - no two guitars will sound the same to any given player.
@@MillerCustomGuitars the best guitar in my little collection (i've had about 60 since 2013) is an HPL martin OOOX1, i think it's a USA prototype made to send to mexico for quality control, but never got there - it is FANTASTIC. i think the saddle and bridge are bone, but i really have no idea.
it is so good i bought two, the X1 is 2004 and i bought a OOOX1AE - with the pickup, although i don't use amps, this was a 2014 made in mexico, but the only build difference was the break angle over the saddle, the X1AE was about 1mm closer to the bridge.
right, they are both back and sides HPL (i have no idea what that is other than laminate) both spruce top, both bone nut and saddle, both same scale length, bot stratobond necks, both richlight fingerboard, same tuners - the only difference is age, pickup and the USA / mexico thing.
they sounded completely different to each other. i have lots of comparisons on my own channel. the only thing i agree with is tusque will sound and conduct better, plastic is dull.
The whole string resonates, so it does make a difference even if a note is fretted. There are 3 or 4 points of contact that the string has with the guitar depending on if a string is fretted or not. Sure it's much more noticeable on open strings but it still has a big effect on tone and resonance. It is most noticeable with a brass nut.
@@bigbasil1908 A fretted string does not vibrate on the nut side.
I think bone sounds Quacky , got a tusk much better
I’ve never understood the fanfare with most Gibson and Epiphone acoustics.
To me they sound like overhyped garbage in a pretty package.
Martin and Taylor make much better sounding acoustic instruments to my ear.
I don’t understand why people would prefer to play them at all.
I thoought I was being picky. I do love the tone of the gibson acoustics but these epis just sound bad, it sounded like a slightly less bad version of bad with the modifications, but still bad.
I honestly think that there are great sounding guitars at every price range… and not that great sounding guitars. I tend to prefer Taylor guitars but I have played Martins and Gibsons that I’ve loved, and just bought a Blueridge that needs some fixing up that should be baller.
@@MillerCustomGuitars I own an Epiphone Masterbilt DR-500R, that I think is an exception. But I’ve heard a lot of Gibson acoustics that just sounded flat, and you can tell most of the money went into the aesthetic bling than the tonal characteristics.
@@adnap I think it just depends. I’ve played Gibson acoustics that I thought were unimpressive, and I’ve played some that I thought sounded fantastic. Like I said, I think it really depends on the guitar. I’ve stared at a whole wall of Taylor guitars and played a bunch that sounded just fine, and played three or four that I considered selling my kids to buy, lol.
@@MillerCustomGuitars I came really close to owning a MINT Taylor 810 DLX from the Taylor Road Show, but ended up not getting it when the seller found a buyer that could buy it outright for $2,500. I got to $1,200 in payments and they gave up and refunded me. They are so much more expensive now. Maybe someday.
The Epiphones made in Bosman Montana are quality built instruments. Chinese made Epiphones are just that. You are putting lipstick on a pig and its still a pig. You don't get quality materials from Chinese made Epiphones. If you want a quality guitar made with quality parts and woods you are going to pay for it.
Hey man, I just do the work that the customer asks for.
Also, adding the bone nut, and the tusk saddle, made a huge improvement to the tone, my opinion.
I will ad the bone did make a difference but the nut stills sounds like a Chinese Epiphone.
You tell 'em Jimmy!
Does it really matter? No. There are only six notes that use the nut.
Ahh, but every note rings from the bridge…
@@MillerCustomGuitars Touche'
I'm a Floyd guy. So I basically use pot metal for my nut and bridge.
There’s Floyds and there’s Floyds. A Floyd with Pot metal will function just fine, but one that is made from better materials will usually give you better sustain and more lively overtones.
@@MillerCustomGuitars Yeah , I know. I have both. I just used what it came with. My Floyds came from the year 1984. Not the model 1984. Except the EVH PV ones I use.
"I have an Epiphone guitar and..."
Well there's your problem!
Come on, there’s no need for guitar prejudice! A guitar is just wood with metal on it. My Epiphone ES-335 is probably my best guitar. It’s an absolute beast and the first guitar I’ve ever owned that I don’t feel the need to change any part on.
@@MillerCustomGuitars I also have an EJ200 and it's my most-gigged acoustic-electric. I put in a bone saddle and a brass nut and it noticeably cleaned up the bottom end. It's not as loud as my Martin D28 or Gibson G45 but sounds and plays superbly. Excellent working guitar.
lol. epiphone steal yer girlfriend? :)
Bone has a more soild ring to my ears. Less worbly. Yes worbly.
The nut sure is involved with the fretted note. Indirectly. It holds the string down at one end with 80 plus lbs of force. The vibration doesnt go thru the fret only.
Good point
I always say that on a guitar, everything effects everything. If you want a better look at this topic, check out my recent video series where I revisit this topic.