Replacing a consumer unit that set on fire
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- Replacing a consumer unit that set on fire
Join us as Cory & Oscar replace the melted consumer unit from the previous video which caught fire!
👀 Watch the original video of the consumer unit fire here: • Consumer Unit Fire
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Only in the UK... Hager Netherlands has no rewards program, no bleu screwdriver for the Dutch :(
"when the electricians come before the drywall crew"
I love the thoroughness of the work, and agree totally with the comments about torquing every screw in a consumer unit, whether or not it is your installation work. It verifies that on the day you carried out the work required, everything was done according to the manufacturer’s specification. In these times when everyone seems to be looking for someone else to blame you need to cover yourself both in working practice and documentation.
Oscar is getting an excellent introduction to working practice.
Cory is always quite impressive in his knowledge and how he conveys it. I know engineers double his tenure that still have trouble communicating theory to apprentices.
He’s a good lad
As a chartered electrical engineer hearing these explanations make me very happy! Well done chaps!
Thankyou Jordan in being patient the guys did a thorough job and gave Oscar some great learning opportunities. With great guys like these you are investing in the business and their talent.
Cory - That was a classic explanation of simultaneously accessible exposed conductive parts, which is a reason of equipotential bonding.
That was a very well thought out explanation about earthing & bonding. I think Cory could better than Jordan.
Hope you're paying Corey enough, better to have him employed rather than as competition with that level of knowledge and articulation:-0
Can you do an electrician's 101 series?
I would like to learn from you about the technical side of this job 🤓
excellent video Cory, your explanation of Earthing and Bonding was spot on another great job.
A convoluted explanation but not bad !. The principals of earth bonding are as you described - ensuring that large amounts of metal within the house (radiators, boiler, gas meter, water pipes, metal baths etc) are held at earth potential - the same earth as the whole electrical installation in the house, the earths are all returned to the same point. The reasons are that things like the gas boiler will have electronic and electrical components to it, these appliances will be earthed, but there could be some leakage of mains potential via power supplies in them. Sometimes the pipes to and from them are not at “mains earth”. If you discover something that isn’t bonded, try measuring the potential difference between that pipe/radiator etc and mains earth (incoming earth at supply point) you will be surprised at the voltage that appears !. You can also experience earth “loops” because the earths on some things are not bonded together at the same point. The earth wires are generally the largest practicable to ensure the least electrical resistance over some distance. Whether the earth clamp to a pipe or system is permanently good is another story !...and what about plastic push fit plumbing fittings that break the earth bonding ? good video keep them coming...
Excellent explanation about bonding and earthing. Awesome, as always, chaps.
Good video, Funny to see how you do it in your country! I have been an electrician for a couple of years. I always like to give the installed wire a little pull, just to make sure that it is not loose, sometimes the torque is fine, but that is just not enough.
The lighting in the last 2-3 seconds definitely given Cory a Blaire Which Project vibe 😀😂
Jokes aside, another great video!
I am currently training to be an electrical engineer. Oscar is a lucky lad to have a mentor like you Cory.
Towards the end of the video; get that 50hz "hum" when you bring the camera close...lol. Great job in a hard situation; well done as ever.
Nice one Cory and Oscar 🙌🙌
😁👍
Get him on the podcast please. What’s his background? Is he from Cambridge?
@nbundyelectrical
Competition for the Kopex Queen crown!
Cory you have an excellent attitude & high standards.👍🏼 You have good all round knowledge of your trade. You'll be an absolute asset to Jordan's Artisan Electrics Company.😊 You'll be a brilliant educator for Oscar.🙂
What a fantastic asset to your company this man is Jordan. Absolutely love hearing his excellent explainations and seeing his first class work.
Thanks yeah he’s a great addition to the team
If you haven't, can I suggest you do a video on 'PVC Cancer' we just had to have our whole house (1970s) rewired as we were affected by it. The video might be a good learning video, as I'd never heard of it!
Was that due to “plasticizer migration” - PVC insulated cables in contact with polystyrene insulation - or some other chemical reaction?
@@ChristianWagner888 Just the chemical reaction due to the original PVC insulation produced between 1969 and 1971 being inferior.
CORY YOU EXPLAINED WELL.GOOD MAN CORY.
Earthing is primarily there to blow the "fuse" in the fault condition, it connects consumer touchable items and in the fault condition allows enough current to blow the fuse for that circuit; as you note - the total Z's for the line and earth circuit.
Because we use PME earthing in the UK (and the rest of the world), the "earth" in earthing circuit is not at earth potential - it is set by the neutral return on the 3-phase system of the distribution system. It is often 0-10V compared to bonded earth.
Bonding is there to protect a user (customer) from creating a circuit between true earth items (usually plumbing and gas) and water in places where the consumer can touch both water and metal - bathrooms - and EV cars (where we use TT earthing). When wet, a human can conduct 50mA - enough to kill you - when potentials of less than 10V, even down to 1 volt (you can electrocute yourself with a 1.5 AA battery if you put in your mouth (don't !!!!). Hence bonding is to reduce the PD to well below 1V in areas with water and metal items can be touched at the same time - like having a shower and reaching for the towel from the towel rail.
Bonding is to prevent electrocution in wet areas, earthing is to create a fault condition to blow a fuse for that circuit.
That is why long extension leads in the garden are a problem - you are extended the conductor to such a point that the fault current many not be large enough to blow a 32A (ring main) fuse even with a direct short between line/neutral. In this condition the RCCD will not trip as there is no imbalance on L/N either.
You deserve more likes and even a ♡, this is an excellent explanation!
This is correct, earthing is within the building and bonding is to the outside, true earth. The difference depends on factors such as load on the neutral, resistance of the cable, weather, wetness of the ground, distance from the substation etc. but can be considerable. I'm actually a believer in a bonded earth to an external earth plate, its surprising how ground returns can screw up sensitive electronics.
The wet human comment isn't quite correct however, a completely wet human is unlikely to be electrocuted as the current will pass over the skin through the water, indeed the higher the voltage (and frequency) the less likely you are to electrocuted (up to a point). Needless to say don't try this! However a 10ma current through the heart (eg wet hands and dry body) of only 40V can kill which is perfectly feasible between true earth (eg a bath of water) and house earth. Bonding is important!
On a side note I am surprised how often resistance and impedance (and R and Z) are used interchangeably, they are not the same. I doubt if the impedance of a consumer home is of much importance in an ECIR.
This new guy Cory is awesome 👌
Cody, you are so good in explaining issues with Oscar, you really are a great guy - cheers 😃👌👏👏👏❤️
bonding is very useful for dealing with static electricity........if two objects are bonded......any static being generated by a process (like movement of a liquid in a pipe) will equalize through the bond and there will be no sparks jumping across objects of different potential that could otherwise ignite flammable vapors etc.
As far as i learned bonding is not only in case of an electrical fault, but also neccessary in the event of an electrostatic discharge. especially when (gas-) pipes often with insulation build up a charge which can lead to tiny arcs between some of them. And therefore there was proper earth- and bonding connections between pipes even before there were electrical appliances. At least thats what my grandpa (also an electrician) told me one time.
Nice work 👍
I think bonding is also used to stop electro-chemical reactions like corrosion, depending on the application.
Also metal parts close to high-voltage lines are bonded and earthed to prevent corrosion and to make sure that all parts are on ground-potential to avoid accidents, is this correct?🤓
Great job teaching Cory !
Awesome explanation, I don't find much faults with it.
There is also the concept that if a fault came in contact with the pipe it would create a low resistance path to trip the breaker, and thus avoiding your pipe work and kitchen sink being at a high voltage and touching your refrigerator and stove which is grounded. Bonding the piping systems and metal systems prevents any fault like that.
In a larger installation say a substation or a transformer room, I have read the story of a technician installing a transformer. I believe it was a Delta configuration maybe from a Y feed, got it all hooked up and something wasn't working right. he tracked the problem down to a miss wiring at the transformer causing all metal work to be at 240V potential but because all metal work was bonded he was sitting as a bird on a wire. Thankfully he didn't cross connect and lived to tell the story.
I read that on a forum post somewhere, if anybody has the link please let me know.
nice explanation of bonding v earthing.... Oscar has struck it lucky following Cory i think...
Man, I need to get a torque screwdriver. Last week I rewired my family's wood storage room and I was so parranoid of leaving a loose connection that I stripped the bloody screws inside of a connector block 😂
Earthing & bonding best explanation ever! Finally I got it 👍
So right earthing vs bonding
That "funky" socket was an MK Mini Logic socket. From the 70's, MK offered this smaller accessory size. There was a 1G and 2G socket and light switches too. They were not designed for flush mounting and came with their own pattress. The sockets at least are still available.
Thats interesting i noticed how you better protected the hot meter tails. I dont understand how they let you switch the neutral with the main isolator . The cut out would be considered the main disconnect and the consumer unit a subpanel. In the USA miniature breakers are not allowed to protect branch circuits and are only meant for supplementary protection after the MOLDED CASE CIRCUIT BREAKER in the panel, distribution board AKA panel .What you call the meter tails single conductors MUST BE IN CONDUIT the three 3/0 cables if the panel is the main disconnect. If its a meter breaker combo you must have a number 4 along with the three 3/0 copper cables in 2 inch steel conduit [ 200 amp service] . The main breakers are rated 22,000 aic available fault current. The 200 amp panel panel can hold 40 single pole breakers. Grounding a no 4 wire to the street side of the water meter, a jumper around the meter, two 8 ft ground rod 6 ft apart no 6 wire. [Our plumbing hear is like your gas its type l copper sweat], a jumper no 4 above the water heater hot, cold, gas. The panel has 3 bus bars the two hots 240 volts line to line and a solid non switched neutral bar 120 volts to ground from either hot. The utility transformer has 240 volts but has a mid tap which is your grounded neutral wire. if you touch something live you will be hit with 120 not 240 volts. We use GFI outlets in places around water. In my area the whole house is done in steel conduit & large steel boxes.Im a licensed electrician in the United states. Sadly in other locals you can use ROMEX and plastic outlet boxes hate this. Also in other places you can use aluminum for you larger circuits hate aluminum.
I only use copper bus panels & copper wire & cables .I HATE ALUMINUM!!
Nice one Cory. Well explained.
Wow been an electrician for 40 years and never heard of pvc cables being affected by polystyrene insulation.
Well explained Cory
Loves a torque screwdriver. Those didn't exist when I was your age.
I still check every screw for tightness if I open a consumer unit, regardless if it's been there for an hour or a decade.
Power factor and bonding can be difficult mind expanders when your learning. Resistor cube puzzles can really help stick that mindset in your head and if you wanna be really evil stick some capacitors and inductors in there too.
Hi all yes this use of torque settings is now becoming a go to requirement , I wonder if any body has also experienced the problem of copper compression, which can develop over time. When high loads are present the copper can become malleable and lead to a poor connection. I must admit I do think that some times these DB fires could be attributed to this phenomena. So not always the fault of the installer . So what to you think 🤔 Best wishes from an old retired electrician Ps I think that testing of installations can also induce its own pressures on connections that don’t respond well to being undone and re tightened say every 5 year 🤔
Interesting I have to say with all the stuff I've taken apart in the US I've never at least think I've seen that issue. I'm pretty sure I've only run into screws that either loosened out or conductors that have flattened because they were way too bent going in and weren't double checked to see that they were now loose.
There's always a handful of screws that when you go back and to just double check and after a wiggle are loose. I suspect a lot of these faults are due to installers who don't come back that one more check after they wiggle the wires.
I've come into a contact at a weird angle, tighten it up and it did feel tight; move the wire a bit and I was able to get another twist because it was not really seated properly but felt tight.
@@imark7777777 Hi sir yes it is open to debate , as regards copper loosening over time I did see many examples of this when working on large ongoing projects. Finding that going back to the same panel some months later . It was often possible to retighten connections done previously . With regards to testing ,as a company we often went back to same installation done previously ie say a school containing many DB points. I can definitely say we would come across a MCB or fitting that having been disconnected for testing would fail to retighten . So requiring replacement , in conversation with other electricians at the time is was often muted that it was just as possible to induce problems as it was to find them . Especially on installations which may contain many hundreds of circuits. But as they say it is definitely open to interpretation , and I definitely don’t claim to be the fountain of all knowledge Best wishes and kind regards from an old codger 😄
@@amarcy5369 oh yes the law of proportions = more wires more problems. I wonder if the voltage difference between the US and the UK makes things loosen more too?
It was through comments like these that I got interested in other countries electrical, so it's always great to see some thing new to learn.
Great explanation on earthing v bonding - very clear! Keep up great work 👍
I am just wondering can I put two more . 2 gang sockets in my bed room as all I have got is two on one wall and that is it please let me know thank you and keep up the good work you are doing .👍
REALLY awesome explanation of main earth vs main bonds...
I think I would have Recommended a round LED Bulkhead light with built in Emergency Light to the Customer instead of the Pendent.
Plus washing some Sugersoap wouldn't have gone a miss it would have been cleaner for working and it would better light to work by! also it might have been easyer to drop that little Ceiling and Reboard afterwards?
I would have repainted at least this one wall before putting all the stuff on again.
I think this is the dark side of the electrician's life 😬
@Ellis The DJ I didn't mean the electricians to be responsible for that but the owners.
Can you invest in a trouser belt for the young lad.
He's an apprentice he can get one himself with money found elsewhere because apprentices aren't paid, right? < sarcasm
Looks like Oscar needs a belt.
🤦♂️👍
The level is correct, it's designed to shed water off the db ;P
It also has the benefit of keeping you from putting your "drink(s)" up there. lol
Cory is a fantastic electrician, wouldn’t trust anyone else with my electrics in my house
Neat job, tow observations if you don't mind.
I would have given tha wall a clean in the surrounding area as it could be that anyone following you would be cleaning that area with fluids that could enter any equipent you fitted...potential for fluid ingress.
I would not fit a programmer onto trunking lid as if that lid has to be removed, one is left with a section of trunking lid in ones hand with a cable connected through it !
Otherwise,as usual,great job.
Excellent vid from the dynamic duo.
Another way to look at earth bonding, is that you are making sure the pipework etc is a low impedance path to ground. That way if a fault should occur that would cause the pipework to become live, a significant fault current will flow that will operate a protective device. It's possible to have pipework become live, but because there is significant impedance between it and a ground, not enough fault current flows to trip a protective device.
This is one of the big reasons they banned using water pipes as earth electrodes - it was possible for them to be such high impedance (due to soil moisture levels, or replacement with plastic pipework) that there was effectively no earth, and people were being killed when pipework became live as a result.
What is your thought about 18th edition. Metal fuse board but ok to extend cables in plastic junction box?
Oscar is getting one hell of an apprenticeship hope he appreciates how lucky he is
Nice work big lad 👌🏼 very tidy !
👍😁
Just to clarify, bonding conductors meet at the earth bar where they are also connected to the mean earthing conductor, correct? This also help with ground-fault currents?
Brings them too the same potential too.
suprised an afdd wasent fitted given the source of the fire, any particular reason behind that?
Thats a NICE install! 👍👍
This channel is just getting better and better, loving the explanation
Thanks! We have a great team!
I wasn’t able to retrieve the “Jordan 150 “ Hager Gang Rewards. How do you do this?
Great vid..really enjoyed that one
Jordan slowly building his empire haha, be the next Charlie Mullins in 10 years, can just see that fleet of teslas driving around Cambridge lol
😁👍😂
Pretty good explanation !
Cory, torque screwdrivers, do you unwind yours to the lowest setting after use?
I use torque ratchets,spanners and screwdrivers in my daily job, when training the trainer said to undo the tension in the torque driver to maintain a healthy spring, prevent ware and maintain its torque values till tool is next Calibrated. I think this makes sense and I've always done it.
Great videos, good job.
Deano I have never been told this but makes total sense will do this from now on also do you know how long between calibrations as did not know they needed to be thanks
I work for London underground 🚇 all our torque tool are tested every 6 to 12month. However if you think the torque is lost or wrong,you can test the torque of one device against another. set one screwdriver torque higher than the other, the lower tool torque should click first, them adjust higher torque down little by little till it loses the battle. This point of losing or clicking at the same time they should both be the same torque.
For screwdrivers its far easier to buy new than send for testing.
I have heard some electricians have been using adjustable clamps to squeeze the breakers in a consumer unit wondered if ever you have tried it? To have better alignment.
You should do some bonding testing just to show apprentices how to test if pipes need bonding. 👍
Your explanation of equipotential bonding is correct, however the gas and water pipes would never be able to be energized to any voltage since they are bonded to earth. This is the protective feature of bonding exposed metal to ground. If there is ever a fault that results in a live wire touching a gas or water pipe, all that current tries to flow to the PE and will trip the over current protection device. Same concept as grounding the housing of an appliance, say an electric range or a washing machine. The metal case is tied to earth. If there is a fault that results in a live circuit contacting the case (internally, etc), the current tries to flow and the breaker trips. If the ground was not there the case would instead become energized and then a person would be in the path if he or she touched it and ground.
I've always looked at it the other way around. If it wasn't bonded and had no earth path and something made it live then the first person to touch the pipe would become the earth path and get a nasty shock. If it is bonded then when whatever made it live touched the pipe work then it would trip the breaker on overcurrent immediately rather than it be sat live waiting for somebody to come along
7:25 I'm not the one who asked but I do live in America, so you're saying I need to go order a whole bunch of UK electrical stuff so I can get points to get a blue screwdriver?
lol
I guess it would be fun to setup a complete working mock demo of electricity around the world.
Sadly, now well I would actually Love to do that and want to do I don't have the money to, which is also why next time I visit a foreign country I know what souvenirs I'm going to bring back.
I'm not really a souvenir person but after my last trip in 2009 I finally decided what kind of souvenirs to bring back.
I got myself a nice extension cord from the Philippines complete with metal case and circuit breaker, the best part is I can use it. Although I'm slightly bummed out that I didn't think about this when I was in the UK. I got to Rome around a hardware store in the Philippines and I thought this is the best thing I've ever done it was so neat to see the different materials and building practices.
Corey i am surprised to see you not got have head phoes on with those spiders about !!
Get Oscar to pull his trousers up !
Is a *wonder* lead something that helps with pondering the big questions of life as you *wander* around the house? eg "I *wonder* if there's CPC continuity here?"
😂
I wonder the programer on the trunking lit is it wired or wireles?
Great job and after all the hard work didn’t you have a bulb for the boiler room?
Seems a bit odd fixing the boiler control to the trunking cap, if the cap needs to be removed it’ll dangle still attached to the controller wiring.
Always sleep sounder knowing you’ve done it right.
What where the clips you used, on the copex containing the tails? Cheers great video.
Why are people not installing simple fire suppression in the consumer unit 😮
Go on send Oscar down to b& q for a packet of spirit level bubbles 🤫hay bundy look at that conduit at the end 😜
The job looks great other than I would have painted the wall before mounting all the new equipment.
Could the previous electrician be held liable for the fire, it does seem apparent that he did not tighten that screw enough?
Cory, its not about tightening them up anyone can tighten the screws up its about tightening them up to the correct setting, loads of people over tighten which damages the cable, plus just check the location of the water bonding regulations states within 600mm of the incoming stop tap
Water bonding regulations? Where do I buy that book. Or as close as reasonably practicable. As if it even matters on a solid bit of copper.b
@@travoltasbiplane1551 the regs are there to be followed for a reason if you watch the video the copper pipe goes down the wall so if the stop tap is at the bottom there’s not much extra cable to make the connection as close as possible to that 600mm
@@leebutterworth7465 agreed. In the scheme of things though it's not the end of the world.
@@travoltasbiplane1551 the point I was trying to make is Cory is teaching an apprentice the ropes so if the connection within 600mm isn't achievable he should be mentioning when he'd highlighted that Oscar had done the work himself
Rock on Oscar!!!!
What are your B curve breakers set to trip at? I use SQUARE D QO breakers 15 & 20 amp breakers are set to instantly trip at between 150 to 200 amps one cycle on a short circuit and are rated 10,000 AIC. I would love to get a Hager 20 amp breaker and put in line with a QO 20 amp breaker create a short and see what breaker trips first. ALL of the MOLDED CASE breakers sold in the us HAVE SILVER TUNGSTEN CONTACTS in them. A QO breaker is a MOLDED CASE BREAKER and is made of a material that WILL NOT MELT even in a fire. If i were to install a panel with miniature branch breakers like your Hager consumer unit THIS WOULD BE A MAJOR CODE VIOLATION hear in the states not to mention i would get a huge red tag for doing so.
QO and HOME LINE are the fastest tripping breakers in the states. I like QO because of the COPPER BUS BARS.
Hear in the states when hooking up a 240 volt appliance you use a double pole common trip breaker. This connects to both hot bus bars in the panel .This is how i get my 240 volts. I run a 3/4 conduit 2 hots ,neutral and an equipment ground all no 8 strand wire to a 4 prong range outlet on a 40 or 50 amp 2 pole breaker. If i were to touch a hot wire i would be hit with 120 volts not 240 like in the UK.
Everything electric in that room need to be changed. The gass who develops in such fires can damage the installation and make problems for us down the line.
Nice combination pliers. Are they expensive?
Knipex VDE installation pliers. About £60 from Amazon. You may be able to source them slightly cheaper, but rarely below £50ish.
Who said copex can’t look good
You did a video on training courses for novices could you do one with pointers for us more mature 'covid retrainers' who aren't in a position to do a 4 year apprenticeship - is it possible? How? Or even 'dont bother' you're too old & too late try something else instead. Would help before spending £000's on some of these 'courses' Thank you
If I were you pal I'd do night school and work alongside a electrician for a while, while doing night school maybe just do Saturdays?
Don't get why the room was not cleaned and removed all the burned stuff before fitting a new board
The wanted power back as soon as possible obviously
@@alouisschafer7212 yeah but the amount of burnt stuff... I would have at least replaced the board where the consume unit will be added so it will be "good to go". now they got a room with a consumer unit with burnt wall :/
First things first you are not earthed but grounded....
#mainswitchontheleftmakessensegang
why didn't someone clean the damage first before installing new things? is this something british where no one cleans anything first? no reason to have all that soot still there. get it cleaned up, everything thats bad out, THEN start installing things again.
It was an emergency and the cleaning team couldn’t arrive until a few days Laust
@@artisanelectrics gotcha, just dont understand that. in the US you wouldn't be allowed to enter the home until its cleaned and then properly up to code with electricity. thats why I was asking.
@@artisanelectrics and I'm sorry if that came off rude or anything, I just didn't understand. I love your videos, and the way you do things. its sort of calming watching this. and I learn things. Thank you for the great content.
Thanks a lot!
you can say who your listening to lol, just dont play more then 5 seconds
Is Oscar at college yet there is one thing that has come to me now that we are in the 3rd lockdown. company's when sending apprentice to college should send them there with the min BS7671 and an OSG and i do have a reason now that we are all doing classes on teams and me being a very much older student i do have both of these book but can't move on because the rest of the class haven't got them i am in my second year and supposed to be working towards the 18 exam but can't because no one sh the books at home please for Oscar's sake get him the books give him the best chance you can. and if possible keep up the info to help other apprentices. thanks
Thanks will do! His college is cancelled at the moment.
@@artisanelectrics yeh I know so is mine that’s why I’m using your videos to keep up with my training
Good explanation but current flows not electricity
NO NOT NICK BUNDY'S FLEXI 👎👎👎
what i cant understand is why nobody cleaned the room before new electrical installation etc....
8:04"were extending the circuits inside this trunking". Your not putting cable joins inside trunking?if so when did this become acceptable practice as it was always a big no no .Also accessory's on the lid of trunking? pity the poor sod who needs to take the lid off in the future.
Not to be a know-it-all or anything, especially since English isn't even my native language, but....wouldn't it be molten rather than melted?
Greatvideosloveyourcontentawesomeasalwayskbye :)
Nice job in an an atmosphere of particulate matter. I do like the new Hager board, a few little tweaks hear and there can make a huge difference.