Re power snowblower Predator 420 - one year later
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- For those of you considering using a predator 420 engine. This engine is a great option to breath new life into your old equipment. I got the #60349 model. Has higher torque than the #69736 even though at the time of purchase i had no idea. I know the newer models throw further and higher. Eventually somebody's going to put out some windows or blow snow up to some high voltage lines and be in for an unpleasant situation. That's why I'm not that concerned with throwing super far to impress or Inspire fear in my neighbor's LOL. What's the point? Off the driveway is the goal and far enough so you're not constantly piling higher and higher
Wow, that thing CHEWS through packed snow like nothing! Great job.
We just had 60 cm or 24 inches of heavy wind blown snow, and I fianaly for to try my re powered Arians Deluxe 28 with a 420 cc Canadian clone. It worked flawlessly for 2 days straight and I have absolutely no regrets . It’s powerful, it throws snow as far as I need and it burned one tank per day of blowing. No bogging down at all , it’s the best 3 hundred bucks I ever spent. Oh and it has electric start and led lights too.
I did a similar thing with mine but used the 212 cc motor on a 1965 Ariens works great and had some small mods but no big deal .Congrats
20190125 now, Looks like a well balanced design on the machine. Good torque on mid-range throttle, and less wear and tear all around. I agree most snow jobs don't need a screaming engine, and in mid range, the governor has ample capacity if needed. I've had an Ariens 624 for 56 years, just changed the motor to 8 Hp about 4-5 years ago, replaced the 3 auger bearings, and she still sings like a champion. (So now I guess it's an 824)
Nice video, and nice upgrade. Also Love the drill driven chute direction. Nice innovation.
my 74 had an 8hp Tecumseh, it threw a rod and I replaced it with an 85 Tecumseh HM80 with generator, I go thru 1ft+ in 4th or 5th gear no issues throw snow crazy distances with LED lighting. I get my driveway done as a workout briskly walking lol. the snow you are showing I would easily do in 5th gear no problems. best part of these machines is the shoot control with metal knuckles able to turn the turn as you turn corners no struggles...
You can’t argue with results, good job.
PERFECTO AND THANKS FOR NO MUSIC I LIKE TO HEAR THE ENGINES STAY WARM !
That drill idea is awesome I will have to try that!
If you have any questions let me know. Of course I've only done one myself. My own. Everything still works very good
Also sorry it took a year to notice I was getting comments. UA-cam could improve this notification because it gets obscured with other notifications like a video I might like. Should be separated IMO
Nice set up!! I can tell that engine isn’t struggling at all.
That's the good old style snowblower built like a tank. My dad has an old John Deere that had 8hp Tecumseh and it always had issues running so he re powered with a harbor freight 14hp and it works so much better it never Boggs down even when blowing through the deep heavy snow.
Very cool indeed! It's a great replacement. No sence in throwing away a machine that's built like this when the newer machines are made cheaper. The sheet metal is at least twice as thick.
Was your John Deere a 70's unit made by Ariens or the later one made by Simplicity, Ariens or Murray/Noma?
I find my 8 horse Tecumseh on my 24 wide snapper to be more than ample. It works hard even in the record breaking 3 feet we had.
@@Mr_Tecumseh Had an old Ariens compact 24 with a Tecumseh and for me it was kinda weak, but did get the job done. However, I later changed the stock 9" impeller pulley to a 6" one and it turned into a monster. It could really launch the snow, although the auger did look a bit ridiculous with how fast it was spinning, lol. And I really had to be careful of rocks after that. =8O
Awesome very nice very well done
I like the drill motor idea. I'll have to add that to my list.
Most coomercial snowblowers suffers of the same problem, the engine lacks seriously of power with the result that the engine is struggling when the snow conditions are less than ideal so the durability and fuel consumption are greatly affected.
The 420 engine ( about 13 HP )is a great sizing for a 26" to 28" wide bucket, it is not too much powerful, the engine develops sufficiently torque to supply the blower without struggling and global fuel consumption is not affected.
Another side benefit is that there is much less broken shear pins and drivetrain components.
That things an f*in tank my friend!
All videos should not play music.. very nice set upp.. what a great idea...
Yeah I agree 100%. Especially when it comes to trying to learn about a product. I used DaVinci Resolve for the video edit. I have almost no experience video editing but after looking up some videos I was doing some basic stuff and also some new things I've never done before. The camera was set on top of something and all the zooming was done in the editing software.
Nice. You look happy.
Yes. Very satisfied. I'd recommend trying it if you have an older snow blower. They aren't made as well today. Although they have more bells and whistles I'd admit. But do they have powered cute? Easy mod really
Thanks for no music!
Your entirely welcome
That's a beast!
Nice snow too. Makes my 8 hp Briggs look sick.
Thank you for checking it out. 8 horsepower is plenty. I just figured for such a cheap engine I better be a little safer and thought it would be fun. From what I hear the 6.5 horsepower is running very good in snow blowers. Be safe!
I like the upgrade.
gOOD FOR YOU MAN Nice job,
more than a foot of snow fell since yesterday.
however my yard and driveway act like a vacuum cleaner, with over 2 feet in areas.
212 cc Predator Engine didn't struggle thru it at all.
Old MTD 24" bucket Yard-machine modded with a 6.5 hp Predator Engine.
Those Predator 212's have a lot of steam. You can set the rpm's on those to 4050 rpm with no problems. The last snowstorm we had, it was really heavy wet slop, everyone elses snowblowers on the block were bogging down and struggling, my blower with the Predator just went right thru it, like it was hungry wanting more. It is amazing how much power those engines put out, people don't believe it, but its true. The Predator 212 is easily putting out double the power the old 7hp Tecumseh did, at 4050 rpm, its like a 10hp engine. Plus their much quieter and more fuel efficient and are easy to pull start, very smooth, at $100 bucks, it is very hard for anything to beat the Predator 212 and its light weight and compact at around 46 pounds. I could see using the 301 on a very large machine, but the 420cc with its size and weight is overkill considering what the small ones already can do.
@@Mr_Tecumseh my neighbor has a scary looking beast of a machine,
I think its a craftsman 3 stage with
a huge engine and all the bells and whistles.
he actually stop to watch me for a moment plow out both
the driveway and sidewalk with the predator. Mine looks like a minnow compared to his killer whale.
I got done before him, even though he had
a good head start. I believe a machine that size is more or a rural / suburban area where snow can really accumulate.
In our city, yards and driveway act like funnels that cause one area of the property to get a lot of snow, and other little. In my case it was knee cap high and in others hip high. All in all a very good test for this engine mounted on a small bucket.
I give it 5 stars if anyone out there is interested.
@@MrPanetela His was the old 3 stage drift breaker made by Noma for Sears. Their very cool snowblowers, but mostly overkill for most parts of the country except the far North and places like canada where a snowstorm brings a foot or more of snow everytime. Thats when that upper auger would come in handy. Its a true 3 stage machine, unlike todays cub cadet 3 stage which is silly. They stopped making those in the early 80's. Those typically have 10hp Tecumseh snowking engines on them, but it still has to go thru powering three stages on a very large unit, where a typical 24-26 two stage wont need as much power. But thats my point exactly, the Predator 212 rated as 6.5hp at 3600 rpm is actually as powerful, if not more powerful than the 358cc 10hp Tecumseh when ran at the safe 4050 rpm. Thats how well those engines work, their excellent. For most snowblowers you would not need more than the 212, it is more than ample. The 420 is overkill and way to heavy. I could see using the 301cc Predator on blowers 30 to 36 wide or one like your neighbors, but even a 212 on that kind and it would keep up if not slightly surpass yours with that third stage, they would be neck and neck if both had Predators, if your neighbor put a 301 on his, game over he would have the most powerful blower around. You really would not need to go any higher than that, as those Predator engines pack a serious punch. I give them 5 stars too, they are great. I still like Tecumseh 10hp the best but that Predator is a very close second.
The 420 is counter productive for a blower, its simply to heavy, the 420 is actually really meant to be used stationary like on a log splitter. Hauling that big one on a blower will cause serious user fatigue, thats why the 301 would be more than ample. The also offered a Predator 346cc but it was discontinued, not sure why, probably slow sales.
@@Mr_Tecumseh you know, you just made me think
about the effects all that power
will have on the bearing and bushings.
Belts being what they are; stretch or
wear out over time. That is normal, but
I'm wondering how well will the other
components take that much power.
I'm gonna have to devote some time
looking up for parts number just in case.
Keeping an eye out watching for loosening
up of parts. Predator doesn't vibrate as
hard as the old engine and it is a whole
lot quieter. However the bucket is made
with very thin gauge metal, and the few gears are a bit thin as well. Initially, I thought well it mainly belts driving the components that drive both the wheels and augers, so I suspected at the time that didn't matter.
I would suggest, use a digital micrometer
with fractional setting to get sizes of nuts
and bolts, and keep a reference guide for
parts number, in the event old parts need
replacing in this way you will know what and its size. But this is still way way cheaper than buying a new Blower.
@@MrPanetela Thats another reason using a 420cc is overkill. An engine that large, heavy and powerful was never meant to be on a snowblower, it will rattle it to pieces.
The 212 isnt too bad, its rated for a machine like a blower, size, weight and power. But you are correct at the amount of power they produce, it will wear things out prematurely. You should always have spare belts, shear bolts and a friction disk. Other things to keep in mind that will go are the bearings and bushings. Any moving parts like that have to be watched.
I put my Predators on old school 1971 Aruens Sno-Thro's, they are really heavy duty machines, however axle bearings and busings, auger bearings and bushings and the impeller bearing and pulleys all have to be watched. Yes going around and checking and tigtening nuts and bolts is also good practice, especially on a lighter duty machine. Those parts are meant to wear and be replaced and now with everything turning double the speed they originally moved, their is no doubt about it, those parts will wear out over time, even on the old Iron. Good point.
I had an issue where the Predator kept snapping a roll pin that holds by hub to the axle on ny machine. I had to switch it to a clevis pin to stoo it from snapping, so no doubt about it, those engines cause parts to fail at the power and speed they run at.
Sick setup!
I have an ariens st824 I plan on swapping to the predator 420 motor. Do you know what model engine mounting plate I could use to keep the same shaft height so I won't have to get new belts?
I thought of that, but the 400cc engine is way to heavy. I think a 300 cc would work better for the handling, and still throw well.
You know as soon as you get done blowing the driveway clean the city or county is going to come through and plow the road and pack the end of your driveway with the hard stuff.
It's an absolute monster with the new 420cc
Lol thank you. Check out the power chute modification as well. It's worth the time and I have a few hacks to save money on switches. All you need is a couple relays some wire and a couple of hose clamps and some plastic sheet. Plastic can be substituted with vinyl siding scrap or anything else that will insulate 12 volts for the switches
That thing sounds sweet
OMG.... I have a older 8/26 ranch king that just died here in MN, I want to do something like this... but not sure if I would go that big or not.... WOW!
The 212 is an excellent option. There's no need to go with the 420cc. I just had the budget and I don't regret it. I have a friend that picked up a snowblower with a blown motor. About the same size. He put the 212 on it and it works fantastic. But there's just something about going over the top that makes it fun for me. It's extremely good on gas and I imagine it will last obviously. I was able to use existing bolt holes in the mounting plate. My only real form-factor issue was the shaft was a little long to correctly align the pulley. Easily corrected by stacking a couple nuts as standoffs. And doing so made my bull hole pattern align on the bottom mount plate. The 212 came with a smaller shaft so the original pulley wouldn't have worked without a bushing to increase diameter. There would have been challenges with either motor so I chose the bigger one
Jon, I have a 1978 John Deere 826. I put the Harbor Freight 212cc Predator and it works great. I did have to drill some holes and get some bolts and nuts, but shaft is exact same size has the old engine. Engine runs like Honda. Starts on first pull.
Some advice. Pay attention to the where the shaft is befor you remove the original engine. Maybe draw a line on the deck.
The best performance improvement I made to my 1978 Ariens was the impeller mod with mudflap rubber.
True dat! I have a ST824 and an ST520. The 824 was down at the end of last season due to a worn brass worm gear (since been replaced). During the last wet and heavy snow, out of the half dozen snow blowers in the immediate area, the little 520 was the only one out throwing the oatmeal. The 520 is a three-blade impeller so each blade had to get the modification for balance issues. The 824 is a four-blade. So, it only needed the two opposite paddles equipped with the rubber wipers.
Ariens is cool, but the plastic engine (Predator) is like a McDonald's hamburger vs. a good bar burger (an authentic Honda).
a) virtually zero plastic on this engine. b) I haven't had a snowblower with a Honda motor but I would have to say it must be better than the Chinese predator but so far so good. I should post an update video. Also there is a lot more plastic on the newer snowblowers. $300 dollars for the 420 vs $899 for a gx390. No comparison between my 1977 and today's machines. 1/8"steel vs .039" sheet metal. Aside from some rust this machine is ready for many more sessions. But thanks for your opinion. It's important. And I don't feel great that most engines are made over seas. Mine is Chinese. Should I post a 3yr review? Might be time
What pulley did you use I can’t find one my old shaft was a3/4” and this one is a 1” what diameter pulley did you go with
Well the pulley that was on the old engine was a 1". I just so happened to not have a problem here. I guess I got lucky but if it was a 3/4" I'd be in the same boat. I guess you could try this one that's about the same as mine. Of course you'd have to match your pulley diameter if you wanted to keep the same speeds and belts as before. I tried to copy the link but Amazon has some options
Phoenix Mfg. Double V-Groove Cast Iron Drive Pulley 3'' Diameter, 1" Bore a.co/d/0oLkjTa
Nice doesn't even sound like it's struggling at all and you're going pretty fast!!
Does it have a starter? I don't recall you mentioning that
Yes. It has a 12v starter and a charging system
I also put a #60349 420cc Predator on an early 1980s John Deere 726. I did opt for a double groove 4" pulley on the engine to drive the blower/auger and kept the same diameter driven pulley, although it is now double groove. We have only had 5" of snow so far, so I haven't been able to give it a real test like your video shows, but I think it will do well. Here is a link to my video ua-cam.com/video/XxdUYiqq1wU/v-deo.html
Did the EXACT same thing to my '71 Ariens 32" about 5 years ago (Predator 420cc re-power) and it throws great... doesn't strain even with a full-height bucket. How'd you solve the problem of slush freezing solid in a windy blow-back situation around the throttle arm and governor? Still my only issue with it... those components aren't shielded for use as a snow machine.
Hi Brian. I haven't noticed that problem but maybe it's because I just don't get as much snow throwing back at me maybe or maybe you just have more snow or colder conditions. Most of the accumulation around it stays soft enough and or melts away as I'm working. I can't off the top of my head think of a way to solve that issue other than maybe cut out some sheet metal to provide some blockage. I wish I could help I I'm very interested in what you come up with to solve your problem. I tell you what I'll take a look at my motor and see if there is a couple of attach points and see if I can come up with a sheet metal solution
Definitely throws the snow with no effort!
Seems the auger speed is too slow. Looked like it was jamming up with snow
its a 2 stage system the first is intended to turn slow it just collects the snow and delivers it to the second stage blower. That machine was working perfectly in this video!
Will it travel slower if needed or was that the slow speed?
It is an older machine. I think I usually land in 2nd gear so it will go a bit slower. The drivetrain isn't optimal. It's likely it can be adjusted but in my subjective experience in it's use I like to keep the pace as close to walking speed as possible. It's a 1977 snowbird. Think I should post a follow up video of how it's working? In a word it's working great still
just wondering how easy it was to make the conversion...did you have any issues with the engine shaft?
In all honesty it wasn't very easy but I feel very good having done it. Saved a lot of money. It helps to have some background working on engines and being a machinist has helped. Looking back on it the solutions were simple but often not easy to implement. Holding a nut way underneath while trying to thread a bolt from the top can be frustrating. Most people myself included don't have every bolt size and length at hand to try fitting up and getting a perfect scenario. If you take your engine off do some measurements and then put it back on a couple times, if you can get that far, will give you some much-needed confidence and understanding of what needs to be done. Trying to get to the bottom nuts will be the test. Or maybe some other obstacle but it will show you whether or not you want to go through with it. I would say that my specific scenario was moderate to difficult but I have no doubt some people had it easier and others have had extreme obstacles.
You need to consider the possiblity pulleys might not line up with new motor in existing holes if you lucky enough not to drill. There is an entire drive trane you need to consider. A few things need to move around. If you use excessively long bolts you will have issues. But if you take everything into account it can be worked out. If you haven't much mechanical experience the risks go up. I wouldn't suggest trying this unless you are very determined and willing to take responsibility for the outcome. If there's any warranty left it will be gone LOL. Mine was over 30 years old when I put the motor on
How much more weight is the 420 Predator vs the 8 hp Tecumseh. How does the weight and overall size of that new engine effect user fatigue? If I was too use that engine on one of my machines that I use commercially for 24 hours straight for 3 to 4 days and have to get in and out of my pickup truck, how much will it wear me down over an extended period, like that?
What rpm do you use it at max when throwing snow, as I know the rpm is adjustable on those engines. Does the engine have to be run on partial choke in the cold as I heard they do until you add a slightly larger jet, what level of noise does it put out, quieter than the old engine, if so by how much? Does the engine have an alternator to power lights, hand warmers? If not can you buy the components to add it if you want too? That electric start requires a battery correct, so more weight for that as well?
Would a 301cc Predator be just as ample in conjunction with a taller chute and impeller mod as the weight and fatigue from it, is a very important factor. What is your opinion on the overall quality of these engines, how long do you expect one would last used commercially, what areas seem to be the weak point to it and what are the strong points? Thanks.
I think it weighs around 80 lb I'm not sure about the 301 CC. I think the balance is much better with the bigger engine because I don't have to pull back on it as much and it does create a lot more traction. But I don't take it in and out of a pickup truck either. I can imagine what the weight being back further even with ramps it would be a struggle. This motor is a huge Improvement in every way the sound level is much quieter and has a pleasant exhaust note.
Sorry I'm breaking this reply up and do a couple of segments but I couldn't remember everything you asked about which is great. Good questions. Although it takes choke to start the engine every time it runs just fine without it. It did come which yet I never replace them because it runs very nice and why mess with something that's working. In terms of RPM I run it about middle and never run it at Max. In fact when I get close to the house or if I'm doing a neighbor's house I will run it much slower keep the snow from blowing all over the place. I like to have a controlled situation having neighbors around. I just know blowed my neighbors driveway yesterday and they had several cars I went in between and I brought the idle down just a little above idle so that I could just kind of move the snow in front of me without throwing it all over the place. Once I got clear of the cars I revved up the engine to about middle again. They didn't even know I was there until they just so happen to look because there was some snow flying around at some point when I was closer to the front door
Hey I'm sorry it took so long for me to reply I wish there were better notifications. Let me know how everything works out and what you decide to do
I've been using mine for 4 years but not in a consistent basis. What I would recommend is because of the ample torque keep the RPM's like I do around middle. Running a faster seems to bring additional clatter that is unnecessary. I think it'll last a long time. I'd be shocked if it didn't last longer than 500 hours without a hitch. As long as you take care of it and run it a little down in the offseason and when you shut it down for long-term storage run it out of gas by shutting off the fuel valve. Also adding stable gas additive is it good idea to. Doesn't matter to me what engine it is I try to take every precaution I can to make it last
Oh yes the electric start does require battery but it'll run without the battery and it does have a recoil rope to pull start it. And it does start very easily either way.
Did you have to play the pully swap game?
Hi, did the new predator engine line up with the studs from the old engine or did you have to drill new holes?
It doesn't line up with the exact same holes but there were enough in the plate to choose from. It's not that the motor mount was a different size it's the shaft was longer and I had to put standoffs on the front plate forcing the engine back. I think it's just dumb luck that I didn't have to drill some new holes but I was prepared to. One problem I did have was one of the holes was very close to some linkages so I had to move them temporarily out of the way to gain clearance. I also hear very good things about the 6 and 1/2 horsepower 212 CC. The only problem I would have had with the 212cc was the diameter of the shaft was smaller than the original motor
did you ever do a fuel consumption test on the old engine and on the 420. To see if the 420 was better at fuel economy.
To be honest I never really paid attention to how much fuel the old motor used. Nothing out of the ordinary to report really that caught my attention other than it ran for three decades really well. Of course my father before me took good care of it and so did I
The new Predator motor is very good on fuel economy though. Quite surprising actually. On this single occasion I think I used about a third of a tank
Who care about fuel consumption on snowblowers, bro? You only run them for half an hour to an hour at max. I filled my snowblower with 1/2 tank of gas and that is more than enough for the whole season. 8hp seem to work well on snowblowers. 13hp is worry free. No shear pins will be able to withstand that kind of power (not the residential snowblowers).
@@lanfan1464 I done something like that on an old snobird snowblower, i replaced an old tired 6HP engine with a 20HP engine and I my surprize, I've never broke a shear pin or any other component, my thinking about that is that the old engine lacked torque and the looses were slapping back and forth, with the immensely more powerful engine, all the looses were maintained solidly supported so much less shocks and the performance was great in wet snow.
also shorter shoots throw snow better
They do? How so, can you explain.
My Ariens had a short chute, 11 inches tall. I added a taller chute from a newer Ariens that was 15.5 tall and it throws significantly higher and further than with the old chute. I'm considering the 23 inch tall chute next so I can clear cars and fences when I'm along side them as I still cant at the moment. Wondering how you determined a short chute to throw better?
Interesting questions about the chute length! Try it and let me know. I'm sure I could make more improvements to the chute in terms of length and controlling the pitch angle. My present theory is the longer the snow is in the air the more time it has to blow back in your face. If I need to reduce the time that the snow is in the air for now the quickest thing is to reduce RPMs. Seems to work very well and it's nice to have a motor that will lug down in the lower RPMs with great torque. If I am between cars instead of trying to throw the snow above them sometimes I will use this method and throw the snow directly in front Andre throw it again with low RPMs. Once I finish clearing out between the cars I can increase RPMs but like I said I never really run past middle. Maybe around 2,500 tops.
@@jerryrissew I did to both my 71 Ariens with Predator 212's. The 212 runs at 4050 rpm.
I would say the power has easily been doubled on both machines from their old 7hp engines. They throw much farther now too. If I'm in between two cars I still cant clear an SUV, I have to throw it to the front first. Theirs even taller chutes Ariens made that will go onto my year machines, eventually I'll get one and than I should be able to clear obstacles that are right along side me. Other than that, those blowers are animals. One storm was really heavy wet snow, my machine just ate it and was wanting more like it was hungry, everyone elses stock blowers were bogging down and struggling. They make an adjustable main jet kit for the carbs on these engines. I added them, it allows me to run with choke off fully in the cold winter, which makes them even better. You can also add a larger jet, but the one machine turns into a mower in the spring and I'd have to swap it out again, so having it adjustable is nice.
@@Mr_Tecumseh If you really want some reach, this is what you need. ;) ua-cam.com/video/KD-riQPGi-s/v-deo.html
Nice how increase
Hello! It was a big increase in power! Easier to start. Takes one pull with choke on. During the summer I store it in my shed and with gasoline stabilizer in it. Already used it once this year.
Holy shit......dude can i put this on a mtd5/24
I can't tell you what is possible. I tried something. It worked. There is risk. I didn't show the actual installation of my motor because it involved a lot of fiddling and cussing. I had no idea how to film while concentrating. But if you watch a few installation videos you will see it's just trial and error. But remember the stakes are high. The universe may not be ready for such power in a small package
Thanks..man that snow blower u have works super good i can see in the video i couldnt believe it ..im from ohio cleveland we got bad storms this year
Where did you get those tires?
In 1977 I was 8 years old. I think the tires are original. I can remember those things being on there ever since Dad brought home
probably solid rubber tires ?