Does the Isaiah Scroll Point to Jesus?
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- Опубліковано 15 бер 2022
- #IsaiahScroll #Apologetics #RTB
Hugh Ross and Dr. John Bloom discuss the question, does the Isaiah scroll point to Jesus?
Meet Dr. John Bloom: reasons.org/team/john-bloom
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Thank you both for your great work in supporting the Lord's word. It'd be great to see more of these discussions with Dr. Bloom.
I'm excited to hear more from him.
Thank You
Praise God.
Thank you.
Not to be argumentative but I think Dr Jones finding the Ark of the Covenant in 1981 was the biggest archeological find of the twentieth century.
lol And they still have "top men" working on it.
@@Orange6921 haha right. We never got to see these people!
Did the new testament authors craft their legends to include callbacks to prior unrelated predictions?
If there is a god, and if that god is the only god, and if that god is omnipotent, and if that omnipotent god wanted to say something to humans, and if it wanted humans to receive it accurately, I would expect the information it wants to convey to humans would be an absolutely pristine transmission.
Were you there when He laid the foundations of the earth?
Have you prayerfully studied His text, word for word, line for line, chapter for chapter, book for book?
Have you even read the Isaiah text they are referring to?
Who are you to draw conclusions without careful examination of the data?
Who cares what "you" or I would expect?
Does the Bible mention neutrinos? Well then, Let's dismiss it because "I" would expect that it would. - arrogant nonsense!
You want "absolutely pristine transmission."?
Jesus died on the cross for ALL! - Including you. Whether or not you believe in Him "now" or NOT.
Whomever believes in Him (Jesus) "SHALL" not perish, but will have everlasting life!
That "absolutely pristine" enough for you?!!!!!!!!!!!
Everything else is just icing on the cake.
There is something else to consider...
Is There A God Who Really Judges Sin?
While there are many who have called themselves God or gods over the millenia, have any of them shown an ability to actually judge sins?
The god of the Quran has never shown that ability.
The gods of the Hindu scriptures have never shown any ability to judge.
The god of the Book of Mormon has never shown that he actually judges anyone.
Literally, in the history of man, the only God Who has shown that He judges sinners in real life is the God of the Bible.
Throughout the Bible He pronounced judgments on cities and civilizations, and history has shown that they have come true just as promised hundreds or in some cases thousands of years earlier.
The God of the Bible pronounced specific judgments on the cities Jerusalem, (Luke 21, 20-24) Nineveh, (Zephaniah 2:13-15) Samaria, (Micah 1:5-9) Tyre, Exekiel 36) Ashkelon, (Zephaniah 2:4-7) Capernaum, Chorazin, Bethsaida, (Matthew 11:20-24) and many others.
In every case the pronounced judgment came true. Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, but they came true.
The God of the Bible pronounced specific long term, or permanent judgments on the Hebrew civilization, (Ezekiel 36-38) the Edomite (Ezekiel 25:13-14) civilization, the Philistine civilization, (Ezekiel 25;15-17) and many others because of their sins.
Once again, history confirms that the pronounced judgments came true.
There are many religions that tell me to fear their gods.
But there is no God, except the God of the Bible Who has demonstrated that He actually judges sinners in real life.
He is the only God to follow. And He is to be followed according to the book He has given us, the Holy Bible.
@MutsPub - Unfortunately I cannot see your comment, and thus I cannot respond. My apologies.
@@mikeyant2445 - There is a simpler, more basal question to ask: Does any proposed god exist? If the answer is yes, then we can begin to answer the next question, which is: Does sin exist? …followed by the next: Does the god judge the sin? If we cannot answer the first question affirmatively, there is no reason to talk about sin, since it is defined by the god, if it exists. There is a much more mundane explanation to your bible references requiring much less complexity than the existence of a god. Do you know what this explanation is?
@@Horus_Isis_Osiris I think you have it backwards. We infer God from many perspectives....one is human expectation. There has never been an indiginous atheistic society in human history....except very lately.
Its so universal it seems instinctive.
A very good reason for that is because God wired us thay way. Thats just one reason.
Second....we are wired with a conscience. God apparently cares how we live morally.
That infers judgment. So which of all the so called Gods ever successfully demonstrated power and willingness to judge.
And were back to my previous point.
05:18
The show's host states that Muslims and Atheists claim "our Bible is Corrupted". Note that John Bloom is talking about the Dead Sea Scrolls and how the discovery of the Isaiah Scroll(s) proves that historical version and todays version in the Old Testament is essentially unchanged. That is, John is talking only about the Old Testament, universially accepted as the Word of the One God of Israel. THEN the host (Hugh Ross) "jumps on this" and attempts to use this information from John Bloom to state that the whole Bible is True and unchanged. This is propaganda. There is nothing in the Old Testament that supports Church Doctrine in the New Testament/Gospels. Anything true in the Gospels is not new, and anything new in the Gospels is not true! Go to the Old Testament (the Word of the ONE GOD) and read it for yourself. If you are a Christian in the Church, get out now. We are in the "End Days" and time is short. Bend your knee to only the ONE GOD of Israel. Those that have not repented, left the Church, and started Worshiping the ONE GOD of Israel when the Messiah arrives (which is not going to be Jesus), will be dead!
06:41
These people are ignorant beyond compare, or they are purposely lying to you! They are nothing more than FALSE Prophets lying about this Bible verse by taking it totally out of context to convince you it is talking about Jesus - It Is Not!!!. Again, Isaiah 53 is not talking about Jesus. This video is ripping this passage out of context. Please watch the relatively short video below to understand Iaaiah 53 and what it is really referring to. Do not listen to this garbage, it will lead you into sin.
ua-cam.com/video/OCiWMB4pOHY/v-deo.html
Last but not least, here is what the ONE GOD of Israel has to say about following/believing the FALSE prophets you see here in this video.
Deuteronomy 13:1-5
(1) Everything I command you that you shall be careful to do it. You shall neither add to it, nor subtract from it. (2) If there will arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of a dream, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, (3) and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you happens, [and he] says, "Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us worship them," (4) you shall not heed the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream; for the Lord, your God, is testing you, to know whether you really love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul. (5) You shall follow the Lord, your God, fear Him, keep His commandments, heed His voice, worship Him, and cleave to Him. (Note it does not say "Cleave to Jesus!).
How do you know that your one god exists?
@@Horus_Isis_Osiris Thank you for that question! I really like the way that you asked it. That is, you did not say, "How (or why) do you BELIEVE your one god exists?". Instead, you ask, "How do you KNOW your one god exists?" and therein lies a whole world of difference. At one time, I would tell people (sometimes half heartly) that I believed in the One GOD. But, that "belief" might be overwhelming my emotions on a Sunday or a Monday when the sun was shining, the sky was a beautiful blue with white patches of clouds floating by, and emotionally it just seemed that the "ONE GOD was in his Heaven and all was right with the world”. But, then, as emotions many times do, by Thursday or Friday my emotional belief in GOD would wane and "sputter" like a camp fire that someone was extinguishing with a bucket of water. But, when in a better mood (e.g.), that emotionally based belief in the One GOD would once again “soar up to the Heavens”. My belief in the One GOD was an emotional roller coaster ride and I needed/wanted to get off that roller coaster in no uncertain terms.
What about other people with respect to their beliefs in various Gods? My research indicates that nearly 100% of those people BELIEVE solely based on what their emotions are telling them (i.e., their emotional experiences). UA-cam is full of stories of people wanting to tell you how they had a dream last night that they want to share because it is a revelation from Jesus and must be told to everyone ASAP. They have no facts to backup what they are saying. They just are so very sure because they had this emotional experience. This is also true in other religions around the world. Those believing in Hanuman (the Monkey God) also have strong emotional experiences which prove to them that their belief is as true as those of the Christians. SO, how do we get off this emotional merry-go-round? The simple answer is that you need to base your beliefs on factual knowledge, not on emotional experiences which everyone can have, and which can change on a day-to-day basis. Emotional experiences do not prove (or disprove) anything except (for the possibility) that one had a vivid imagination.
So, to return to your question to me, “How do you KNOW your one God exists?”. The short answer is that I researched the topic for a couple of years to find the facts. I now no longer state that “I BELIEVE in the One GOD”. I leave the word BELIEVE/BELIEF out of my vocabulary when discussing this subject. If anyone asks me, I will tell them that I have KNOWLEDGE that the ONE GOD of Israel exists and ONLY TO HIM will I bend my knee. Do I still have days when MY GOD is so close to me that I am in tears? Definitely YES - it’s a wonderful day indeed. Do I still encounter those days when MY GOD seems far away from me? CERTAINLY. But with the facts that I now rely on, I know that whether I am having a “good day” or a “bad day”, MY GOD is always there watching over me and waiting for me to return to him. My emotional roller Coaster no longer exists, and knowing the facts about (instead of only believing in) the ONE GOD of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob makes all the difference in the World.
Last but not least, I would guess you are now asking, “What facts did you find” that got you off that emotional “I believe” system that so many people are stuck in for their entire lives? Well, one of the reasons that I saved this part for last and used the above two paragraphs to provide some information about myself, and some background information about your question, is that, from my perspective, you needed to understand where (to some extent) I was “coming from” in answering your question. So, what are these facts? I will try to be short and brief since this comment is getting a bit too long as it is.
One of the facts is that there is only one nation (i.e., one group of people in the entire world, and in all of history) that can claim a national revelation. If you have a bit of a mathematical background, it has been stated that, “The chance of success for a new startup religion is inversely proportional to the number of people that claim to have experienced the revelation event”. For example, if one person goes off into the Alaskan Wilderness for a month, returns to his home Town and (while telling a lie) says he saw Jesus Christ in a cloud over the Brooks Range Mountains and received a message from him to tell the people he will be here shortly, and the people must leave their homes and Churches and form a new congregation in those mountains named, “Jesus Forever”, and eat nothing but fish bread and water until his (i.e., Jesus’) arrival. This new religion would have a good chance of surviving (at least for the immediate future) because only one man had the revelation and there is no way to disprove it. If this man had the ability to speak and persuade others, then he would find people that believed his story. But, if 5 people were to claim to have gone through this “made up” revelation experience and came back to tell people, the new religion would be less likely to survive. Why? Because each of those five people may not have their stories exactly right and when that happens less people are going to believe them. This lack of belief (and the failure of this new startup religion) would be 20 times more likely to happen if (e.g.) 100 people all claimed to have had this experience because it would be so much harder for 100 people to tell exactly the same lie and get all the details straight.
So, to my first fact as to how I KNOW that the ONE GOD of Israel exists. It is estimated (by those scholars that know much more than I), that about 2,000,000 Jewish people (counting men, women, and children) were present at Mount Sanai and heard the ONE GOD of Israel speak. That ONE GOD told them that they are to be his witnesses and that they are to tell of this revelation from Father to Son, Mother to Daughter, Generation to Generation down through the ages. The Jewish People have followed this directive of the ONE GOD and told of that HOLY event for more than 3,000 years, and they celebrate the Holiday of Shavuot to remember that event and honor the ONE GOD of Israel. That ONE GOD also told them that their experience was unique. That there would never be another nation that could claim (or actually experience) a national revelation. This has been the case for over all those 3,000 years. That is, no other Nation has (or ever will) experience a national revelation. This was absolutely unique, a ONE TIME EVENT, and GOD’S GIFT to the Nation of Israel.
As mentioned, this was one of the first facts that allowed me to know that the ONE GOD exists in all his glory, but I continued my research. Not so much (now that I had this one major fact) to prove that GOD exists, but because I wanted to know more about this GOD that had created the heavens and the Earth, not to mention myself, you, and all the other people we encounter each day. So, I gleamed some additional knowledge about the prophets who spoke the words of God to the people. I saw prophecies that were made thousands of years before they actually happened regarding such things as when the Jewish people would return to the land of Israel, and of the holocaust that killed 6,000,000 Jewish people. I learned that for you and I to exist out of sheer accident, to exist because all the needed components of evolution just happened to fall into the right order, was one chance in 10 to the power of 2,685,000 (that is 10 followed by 2,685,000 zeros). I am still reading and learning more information about the One God of Israel daily and weekly. As I learn, I discover new facts/prophecies in the text of the Torah (i.e., the “Old Testament”) that have come to pass. Prophecies that could not have come from men, but only from the One God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
I know that this is a long response to your question. But I hope this information will help you (and others) get to a point in life where they can STOP saying “I BELIEVE” and START saying “I KNOW” (I have knowledge) that the ONE GOD of Israel exists and only to him will I ever bend my knee!
@@waegnw1793 In summary,
1. 2,000,000 received simultaneous revelation
2. Fulfillment of prophecy
Re: #1, how do you know 2,000,000 received a revelation?
Re: #2, is there significance in improbability? Is not every single thing that happens improbable? Did these prophecies have specific claims and specific fulfillment dates that could not have been misinterpreted, and also could not have been forced to happen due to knowledge of the prophecy?
@@Horus_Isis_Osiris
I was aware that there was a large group of people present at Mount Sinai. In answering your previous question, I did not want to inflate the numbers. So, I research this, and took the lowest most conservative number that I could find. I could have said 3.500,000 (e.g.) and still have been within the "ball park". So, the reason that I know this National Revelation occurred was for two reasons: (1) The event was retold from generation to generation among the people starting, with that generation that was present for this National Revelation. In other word, the story was passed down over the generations by the people who actually experienced it. (2) Biblical historians also support that this event did in fact occur.
In comparison, let’s look at the revelation of "Paul" in the NT. A revelation which never occurred, but nevertheless, the story makes a point. So, according to Paul, on the road to Damascus, he encounters Jesus - this is his revelation. He returns and tells everyone that he is now a Christian and that they should follow his teaching. So, how does a person of that day (i.e., living at the time of Paul) prove (or disprove) that story. It cannot be done! There are no witnesses to ask if, in fact, Paul actually did have this encounter.
The same is true of Joseph Smith who started the Mormon Religion. You either believe the story of his revelation or not - no way to prove or disprove it as there were no witnesses. Remember what I said in my prior response, "The chance of success for a new startup religion is inversely proportional to the number of people that claim to have experienced the revelation event". That is, if only a single person has a revelation and a "silver tongue", there is a good chance that that religion will survive the "startup" phase and be around for a while. In "my book", the fact that 2,000,000 people had a revelation, and that particular religion survived is (in and of itself) proof that the event occurred and that the “story” is true.
In Answer to your second question: "Did these prophecies have specific claims and specific fulfillment dates that could not have been misinterpreted, and also could not have been forced to happen due to knowledge of the prophecy?"
No, I would have to say that this is definitely not the case. The prophecies that I referred to (spoken by the prophets as the word of the ONE GOD) were not even understood by the people at the time they were spoken and written down. Their true meaning was only deciphered (sometimes) thousands of years later after the event had already occurred. When they did occur, it was (for example) not orchestrated by (in this case) the Jewish people, but happened because of "forces" totally beyond and outside their control. Once the particular event had occurred, then biblical historians/scholars (and the people) would, once again, read that particular prophecy and (only then) understand the event that the prophet was speaking of.
When this "mysterious" prophecy was spoken, the people would have no idea what was being spoken of (or referred to). They would only conclude that, while the meaning was unknown, it was the word of the ONE GOD, and they would therefore accept it on faith and go on with their daily business/life.
@@waegnw1793 Thanks for your reply. If I understand correctly (correct me if I’m wrong), the Bible says something happened and Bible scholars say the events in the Bible happened. I’m using Bible as a stand-in for Torah+prophets+writings, or, at least, just Torah for now.
Why do you trust that what it says is true, and why do you trust the scholars when they say it’s true?
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