How a BRAND NEW Oil Pan Destroyed This 6.7L PowerStroke
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2022
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Worked at a manufacturing plant before. The amount of times I was personally told too make it work,was astounding. I can still hear the sounds of sweet slow cross threading in my dreams
Great info thank you.
I find it hard to believe it locked up after only a 7-8 second run without oil pressure. During the cash for clunkers program, we had to intentionally blow up engines by running them with no oil and in most cases, those engines did not die easily as long as there was even the slightest oil film or lubrication on the internals.
I was thinking the same thing. More than likely, they installed it, started it and took off for a test drive in it and locked it up. Just a guess.
Yup. That’s not gonna lock up that quick. Shows extreme ignorance to even make that claim. Also, he put a pan on from a different year truck. I’m guessing there is more to the design change than that gasket.
I was thinking same; but I'm a GASOLINE engine mechanic. I do know NO WAY a gasoline engine locks up in 8 seconds at idle; I've seen demos where engines run at fast idle for many many MINUTES with NO OIL PAN 😆. Are diesels more delicate flowers 💐???
That cash for clunkers was fun. Getting paid to blow up engines. Doesn't get any better than that. I was honestly surprised how hard they were to destroy. I was hoping for major catastrophic failures. I was sad when they slowly whimpered and stopped.
@@xj31 It was a scam. A lot of really good vehicles were destroyed. There were a few I would have loved to have saved.
Some of the stuff that is making it out of the factory is really astounding.
Was kind of hoping you'd stick a bore scope down there and see whats actually down there though.
The quality issues I have seen in parts I get for my shop, OE and aftermarket, starting going down in 2019 before COVID. Bad CP4 for a Duramax LML from GM, bad damper motors from Ford, bad fan clutch from Hayden for a Ford 6.0. All parts installed with immediate problems found during post repair verification. This is a short list and I am a small shop.
It's time to boycott the parts networks that only push their distributors parts. Yea they come a day or two sooner than amzn or ebay, but they're straight up broken trash. Buy aftermarket, especially if the part is a known improvement. Nothing's dumber than a dealership replacing known problem parts with the same problem parts. Quit using tin foil and bolts for a head gasket when an aftermarket gasket and studs is available at probably a cheaper price. Ford is the most famous for this fraudulent neverending repair cycle
Same I’ve had a brand new fan clutch bad out the box as well as IPRs
Yep same here. I definately seen it even before Covid as well. Quality checks are down a lot.
CP4 pumps are just being used wrong. They're meant for number 1 diesel which is thick and sold in Europe. America uses number 2 diesel which is thin and doesn't lubricate the CP4 pump so it gets destroyed. Still the manufacturers fault because they knew this would happen in the US.
CP3 pumps are bullet proof, so do the CP3 conversion if you have a CP4 truck.
I had new 400$ radiator where the factory fan shroud bolts pushed/drilled holes into the new tanks. How, why, what?
A truthful and honest assessment; well explained, thank you Sir.
I’m impressed that the older shop guys actually showed you then actually let you do the work and post it as well
I like how you're quick and to the point you don't draw it out for like a 15 minute video keep them coming bro love all the info my dad has the same issue with the phasers on his truck I'm trying to get them to put the new style on now thanks for all your help
Exactly. So many UA-camrs wouldve stretched tf out of a video like this
Interesting on the 7-8 seconds, definitely a QC issue. If you follow Dave Auto Center, Engine builder out of Utah, he does a 2 part series on the issue with the Ford 6.7 and high number he rebuilds because of spun bearings, caused by a poorly engineered oil system. He does a test that shows that on start-up (including after less than hour of running) it takes 7 to 8 seconds to get oil pumping in a Powerstroke. He has a solution to cut it to 4 seconds for those he rebuilds.
I love Ford. I own a machine shop and fixing broken Fords put three kids through college! So many broken Fords...so little time!
Turning brake rotors at Napa doesn't make you a machine shop owner. Neither does sending 3 kids to Turnpike Tech, whose grease monkey parents got married barefoot.
LOL this is great, and the solid TRUTH.
We do love Fords, as they are pushing my retirement closer into range!
Brake rotor guy is funny. Keep buying this junk some day you might run out of money. But you already ran out of smarts. Common sense isn't very common anymore. Thank for proving it
yeah love their trans too made a bunch of money fixing them
Great money makers. I made lots of money fixing them for a construction company.
Run a bore scope down the oil passage. Curious what the blockage looks like. Casting slag etc.
Should be that simple.
Thank you for reminding me to check replacement parts against the old part for any differences. Easy to assume the new part is good and just toss it in place.
I can’t believe it only took 7-8 seconds for the engine to lock up. Bearing clearances are so tight on newer engines, so it doesn’t take much to lock them up. I’ve took old cars that were headed to the scrap yard in the past, drained the oil, let it run and it took a few minutes before the engines finally seized. The longest run with no oil was an old Honda B series. Took about 5 minutes of running with no oil before she finally locked up. Those old B series engines were stout. I used to own a ‘95 Integra GS-R with a B18C1 and that thing would take any amount of abuse you threw at it.
Probably not a drilling problem but a casting problem when casting the form for it, probably that punch out die was not in place properly and it filled the hole my guess anyway thanks for the info!
Man awesome insight, I have put dozens of these pans on as well without issues, but you have definitely opened my eyes to being mindful of this possibility! Great video's love seeing what other techs across the country encounter!
Correct
10 seconds it couldn’t possibly lock up.
Would like it maybe but can’t lock up that fast if at idle
Very good info to know! Sucks it happened, think I got my boss talked into doing early upper pans on the newer ones now, definitely will be checking that!
I work at a Ford dealer and one of my work buddies was assembling an engine he replaced the block on, he went to bolt down the heads he found none of the head bolt holes had been tapped. I'm surprised at the stuff we are seeing these days, quality control is definitely an issue. This stuff is supposedly getting triple checked in the case of the engine block.
Did you not know how tight the tolerances are inside the new engines it's like three and four thou not 10 and 12 like the old engines so it would take nothing for them to seize up I've seen that happen to four or five engines ford especially
@@urbanmacdonald7901 that has nothing to do with not tapping bolt holes...
To the OP, I have seen the same kind of thing working at a John Deere dealer. Holes not drilled even remotely close to where they need to be, stuff not tapped, brackets that are over 1/4 inch off spec. Wiring harnesses that are pinned wrong.
Hell, we were just told to throw out our entire stock of a certain oil filter because they were made with the wrong case/o-ring diameter and they leaked. Over 500 filters at our one location. Admittedly this is a supplier problem, not Deere themselves, but still.
I wrench for a Ford dealer too. I guy in our shop did a 1.5L ecoboost short block for the usual issue. Started it up and it was knocking. Turned out they neglected to put the upper rod bearings in the short block.
This is something you may want to check but on some items ford uses bolts that cut their own threads. I know that seat track to floor bolts are that way as well as bed bolts,cab bolts and some seat belt components are that way. While I wouldn’t think head bolts would be that way I can’t 100% rule it out either.
@@dirtracingfan8742 People are dumber for reading your comment.
I’m not knocking your abilities. I will say this shows your engine building experience. And this is a lesson learned that you will never forget. I was taught that time you have and Engine tore apart that you should prime it until you see oil pressure before you try to start it. Good job young man.
That works good for engines where the distributer drive connects to the oil pump drive, unfortunately diesel engines do not have distributers. I honestly have no idea how you would pre-prime a diesel engine.
@@carportchronicles1943 Just an idea, but I would assume that the diesels also have the flood mode, hold the accelerator pedal to the floor while cranking and it will not start, thats how you prime most all newer gas engines.
@@carportchronicles1943 we pre prime with a pressurized container..kinda like the mighty vac pump. And fill it with oil attach it to the oil pressure sensor fitting. let her rip
That engine still would’ve f-up even if you would’ve pre-primed it anyway
Can you put a borescope in that pan and see what actually took place?
I feel you on that. I’d also like to see other pans from that particular lot. Obviously that isn’t possible.
Worked for a Ford Industrial Engine dealer years ago, must have swapped out 10 or more exhaust manifolds where the #1 port wasn't connected though to the rest. Considering all the engines were 'test run' at the plant you'd wonder how they got a test cert..
Wow !! That is absolutely crazy!
You would think Ford would want that pan back to figure out the manufacturing problem
They usually do. If it’s under warranty, they want it back so that they can check it out
they know its the wrong pan, thats why they dont need it back, shops fault
Good update in telling it all and yes it could lockup in a minute or less .
Grateful to still have my 1980 Ford F-150 shortbed with the original 300 in line 6 cylinder, 74,000 miles on it.
Now that's a cool Pickup Truck! Don't ever sell it!
@@rpsmith that's good advice and I will keep it. Found it at an estate auction 4 years ago and drove it home, 2,650 $.
That's a nice combo, the six with a shortbed. I've owned many chevys, dodges and now I drive a 85 f250 460 bbf. Best truck I've ever owned, and that's after owning 3 Cummins powered dodges!
@@forrestwright5981 that's an excellent truck you have, they're hard to find at a fair price. I got lucky, mine has the original undercoat and needs no body work either, original paint.
Good video. Short and to the point. I hope you make lots of money in your career and don’t get hurt doing it
Great Video
Great Diagnosis!
Thank You!
Take Care!
Not the first one I've seen. There was a aftermarket shop that had about the same problem. the got 3 or 4 bad pans.
After an oil change it can take more than 8 seconds to fully prime the oil system,
The unless's,
The engine was reved high,
The engine was already hurting,
There was something nocked loose in the oil gallery and got past the filter.
Awesome video brother keep it up thanks
Honestly, I’m not surprised. Back at the old shop I used to work at, we ordered a rear axel for a sprinter van. The axel came in, and it didn’t have the holes to mount the spindles. Some one forgot to drill and tap the holes 🙄. Quality has gone down the drain for most manufacturers
I just played this game with ford two months ago. First replacement factory rebuilt transmission from ford had the clutches burn up in 3 months of normal daily driving (not towing or taking steep hills/racing). The 2nd factory rebuilt transmission that was being put in my truck had a housing crack that ford missed and cost me an extra 3 days on top of the 2 weeks that I had already spent waiting for my truck to come back from my local AAMCO shop. Because of that I am now on my 4th transmission. Thankfully the previous two transmissions and any future ones between now and 2025 are covered by my three year unlimited mileage warranty with AAMCO.
Thanks for the heads up!
Thanks for keeping us updated with your videos! This is one of the reasons that I decided not to have my upper oil pan leak fixed even though it just crossed over 100k and would have been covered under warranty. Was too afraid of something going wrong when they drop the tranny, pull it all apart then try to put it back together with no mistakes. Have also read a lot on forums and UA-cam video comments where the pan just ends up leaking again not long after it’s put back together with silicone. Right now the leak is fairly minor and hoping it stays that way. No CCV filter in my 2019 6.7, just the CCV box. Curious to know if I should periodically replace the CCV box? No major pressure at the oil fill cap. Just a little steam that vents out…
I would!
@@FlyingWrenches13 Will do, Thanks!!
CCV delete and reroute, especially since the warranty is gone.
And being a dealership they do it as fast as they can, that is how techs get paid well.
Brother, GOOD VIDEO!!!!!!!!
Thanks man!
Good info about possible pan defects.
That's messed up. Once I had a brand new hydraulic lifter fall apart because it was assembled missing a clip. Held an exhaust valve open under boost causing that cylinder to preignite like mad and ruined the head. Little bit of meltage on the piston too and the porcelain shattered on the spark plug making a nice scratch down the cylinder.
Thanks for sharing............
Wow. I enjoy your videos and knowledge. ❤️
You mean to tell me that dang thing couldn’t even run for 6-7 seconds without oil!?
Ill be checking thay from now on thanks. Another thing to check is your upper turbo pedestal gasgets. They have an early and a late build gasget. We just got a turbo that had the wrong gasget from the supplier. The turbo lasted about 10 min before it locked up. Due to a lack of oil flow.
Good tip! Fortunately I learned that before I locked one up haha
Yes. I have seen that happen in my shop as well.
Word to the wise always check passages. Never know when parts manufacture will fail you.
"hi quality Ford engineered parts". I caught that joke. Lol.
My buddy changed his own oil on his Honda. When he poked the plastic wrapper on the new filter a little piece went down into the filter. That little piece ended up blocking the hole to the upper part of the head that the oil feeds through. Smoked the engine. One tiny piece of plastic.
Love your videos bud!
These days you need to assume any part you buy is junk, then check it over carefully to prove yourself wrong
I was considering buying a newer ford ranger this year but I took a look around & considering the poor quality of any vehicle now a days, I choose to get another used low mileage car again and I’m glad to say that I did.
Man cant help but feel bad man, ive had 1 kind of simular where they didnt pull remove the plugs before installing the oil cooler from the factory and didnt go more than a few hundred miles before coming in with no oil pressure...oil reason i found it was cause after getting apprival for a long block i removed the cooler to remove the axle and i found all this red rubber shit in the oil passage and instantly knew somebody fkd up on assembly...so with that being said guess what i checked on the new longblock....took the oil cooler off to do my own inspection cause i wasnt about to have to do that all over...comebacks are never fun
I had a brand new water do similar. The casting slag closed one hole down inside, not allowing any water to pass. Problem being, it had an overheating problem when serviced, and still had a problem with new water pump though everything else was checked and double checked. Just a headache that didn't even pay.
I bowed out of working at the ford dealership when the 6.0 was showing its true ford potential 2years into production. As far as their parts this has been happening for the last 5 to 7 year's.... for the last 5 to 7 years I've had to warranty most of parts that I purchased and couldn't warranty even being one day over even though I ordered new part before warranty was over....
forgive me for being a little new but about you say you "have had to warranty most parts i purchased" do you mean you warranty them for your own customers or ?
Crazy I was just having a conversation with my coworkers and we were talking and I asked them if it was just me or did it seem like the quality of parts just seemed poorer and now I see your video funny
zzdiesel in indiana had the same exact issue. They have a video on it as well. They are checking all of the Ford pans they sell before they ship them out.
I just watched their video, same exact problem, toasted the motor
What year trucks are these for primarily, if you dont mind, thanks.
I got a couple questions. Are the pans with the seal a direct replacement for the ones that take silicone? And what’s the difference in the bc3z6710-a and the 6710-b gaskets?
I was taught to disable the ignition then crank over until oil pressure comes up before actually staring it up.
Diesels dont have ignition systems
Literally just had this happen to us hours ago- big question did ford do anything to compensate? If so what was the process? Thanks
Good information man thanks
I've seen engines run almost an hour without oil, yet I've also seen an engine seizure after just a minute after a valve cover seal blow and the engine still had oil in it.
Was the engine confirmed bad, as in ruined bearings? I was thinking it may be possible the lack of oil flow caused a hydraulic lockup condition, where the oil pump pressure relief valve didnt flow enough oil to avoid stalling the engine. Curious if oil pump and related components had any abnormalities after engine locked up.
It sucks when things like this happens but at the same time its a learning experience and you know what to look for next time so it doesnt happen again.
Make sure an post when you cut that bad boy open. As someone who works in the manufacturing industry I'd really like to see if it was a broken gundrill or a bad casting that caused this.
Let me start by saying that I'm not a mechanic, an automotive engineer, or even someone who knows a lot about cars. I was surprised when you said It only took 7-8 seconds for the engine to lock. That seems like a very short amount of time.
Agreed. 8 seconds is not nearly enough time to lock up a cold engine. Many engines can run 15 minutes or more before failure. Its possible this number is lower on diesel engines but 8 seconds does not seem reasonable to me.
I have had a gasket fail on an oil filter. I was able to pull off the road and have it replaced without any damage to the engine.
Does this mean that the PowerStroke would lock up in this scenario?
I know the water pump will destroy an EcoBoost if it suffers a catastrophic failure. I didn't expect the PowerStroke to be as vulnerable.
@@ITrustInDog you forgetting he said he had no oil pressure . no oil pressure mean no bearing on the crankshaft. sense the had it this torn apart so I'm assuming all the oil slowly drained from where it was needed. no oil means metal on metal so it most likely burred the crankshaft and the bearing shims. hence why its cheaper to get an engine cause the labor for a crankshaft replacement is rather expensive.
and to your oil filter comparison its a huge difference. your oil filter will slowly leak (compared to running no oil) while this had a oil feed blocked that means no oil, not a lil oil like your oil filter. however nice job catching the gasket leak before it ruined the engine.
The engine didnt have residual oil because the pan replace, and start a engine with no absolute pressure it's very bad. When i mess with the lube system on a engine, always cranking the engine to built up pressure before actually start the engine
@@servicioelectromecanicocue7025 thats if you lucky and it dont kick over
Good catch!
Great video. You caught it! Is that 15k for the engine or the whole job? Thanks for all your videos I’ve seen. Keep up the good work.
Engine only
@@FlyingWrenches13 how many hours on a job like that. I like the idea of lifting the cab off. It’s really crammed in there.
Amazing and unbelievable! would have never checked for that.
Iwould of never caught that either . Some stuff is to complicated today. Now I own various ford's including new lincoln with ecoboost. It's way over engineered. Every time you introduce a channel passage mechanism it's something more that can fail. One of my favorite trucks is my 89 d350 cummins. It's very simple makes about 400hp 1000ft lbs tq. I'm very happy with it. Even the early common rails are nice and simple.
WOW! At least with a 7.3 the engine won't run long without the LPOP feeding the HPOP reservoir. I guess another preventative measure is to crank the engine without starting until you see oil pressure. Like @Ford Boss Me recommends following oil changes.
wont run at all..... if you have low base engine oil pressure on the 6.0 or 7.3 Powerstroke the HPOP won't beable to feed the injectors oil and the engine can't run. and if your engine dies from a oil leak its still safe oil level for the engine but not high enough oil level to run injectors so really the 7.3 and 6.0 are idiot proof in terms of major engine failure from things like oil.
Same as a 6.0L.
@@davidleonard8369 Good to know. I've never moved past the 7.3 to a 6. anything. Hear they are a lot more powerful than a 7.3, but also have to spend a bunch of $$$ to bulletproof them.
I don't know why that would be necessary following an oil change. Oil pan off or internal engine work? Yes, I think cranking until oil pressure is shown is a good idea but not for a routine oil change.
@@ghostwrench2292 I certainly don't do it... but you are right, fo9llowing major work where the oil galleys might be empty, or bearings dry...
I had to install a long block in 11 6.7 for customer because another shop forgot to add oil to his truck when they changed the oil. Truck made it maybe 4 blocks then seized. The crankshaft tolerances are pretty tight. And I dont think main bearings use tangs like old motors.
sorry if new, but if you could tell me what the main bearing tangs add that non tang dont ?
Good information man
Enjoy your videos Mayson.
This young man is a treasure.
Good on you, brother.
You've done a good video/presentation. I worked for a Fix Or Repair Daily dealer in 1969(when we had very kool cars). After seeing how miserable the older guys were, I decided to go to college and be an engineer. I worked in construction, as an engineer, for 35 years. In the past 30 years we have seen a lot of foreign steel and hardware cause big problems and even collapses. There is a general lack of quality control/quality assurance everywhere. Many managers consider quality inspectors a wasted overhead and try to eliminate them. Good Luck, Rick
Weldor for the last 50 years and agree with you on the Cheap Frigin' Chinese Steel
I don't doubt it. I work as tech/mechanic and there was a period of a couple years just before COVID where a lot of wheel bearing we installed failed within 6 months, some barely made it a month. We tried different brands, Moog, Timken, NTN, National, ect. it didn't make a difference. We even had fairly new, low mileage vehicles coming in with failed OEM wheel bearings. Whatever type of steel they use for bearings, the supply chain for it must have got a really bad batch mixed in and it messed up all of them.
Quality control has gone to crap everywhere. Even with kids toys. Good luck with the new engine install!
He said high quality ford parts with a straight face. 😂 hes good
I recall many years ago a guy bought a new Ford with 351c engine that ran on 7 cyls. The dealer doodled around with it for quite awhile before pulling the head and discovered it was miscast and had a blocked intake port on only one cyl. Reminds me of this issue that looks like similar fault with an over designed oilpan.
Good catch
A few seconds of run time more likely it was a few minutes. Lol but they should give your customer new motor for sure
Good Video Brother
Does changing to the older upper pan solve the oil leak problem?
Would you say if I go this route I will be putting this leak issue to bed?
i did the upper oil pan gasket in my 6.7 in my driveway, I spent 2 hours on one bolt, my big hands couldnt fit. I hated every bit of it. I miss my 5.7 tundra so much, 200k miles and I only replaced the the starter twice.
thx man!
Are there any back order issues with the pans?
I’m not a mechanic, but is it good practice to first crank the engine to build oil pressure before actually starting it (i.e. clear flood mode on gasoline engines)?
Dave’s Auto Center in Utah builds engines. They do a ton of 6.7 Power Strokes. They have an engine rebuild shop called Monster Engines that fixes all these issues.
What size is that allen plug at the front of the upper oil pan?
thank you
Great video.....what a bummer, but not shocking. I have a 1967 gto and the alternator is externally regulated. I went to replace the external regulator with a brand new ac delco external voltage regulator, and it was bad from the get go, brand new $100.00 part did not work......quality control is not existant these days!
I'm needing to reseal my upper on a 2019 f350 6.7. Will a upper from a 2011 fit it? I really don't like the "silicone" gasket. Thank you
Same exact pan, except for the rubber insert gasket BC3-6675-B. Make sure that oil galley is clear
How do you remove the 2 cooler lines on the side of the transmission?
My upper pan is leaking from that threaded insert (looks like a freeze plug) that leads to the tube that was plugged that feeds the oil cooler. How does a guy remove that "freeze plug" and install a new one?
I remember in the 70,s and into the 80,s everyone did fine with gas engines in there pickups. You had big blocks if you wanted more power and no one was going broke over a diesel motor.
Dose the transmission have to be pulled to do the upper oil pan?
That’s crazy!
Mason: curious,have you dealt with a broken crankshaft in F-150 equipped Peugeot V6HDI twin turbo diesels?. Is/ does Ford use the car FWD version like Jag/ Land Rover or slightly longer block with stronger crank?
Not bad mouthing them, but makes a living working on their junk. Got it.
Great catch even if after the fact. There’s no need for you to be lost for words after you performing an amazing job.
Fact is, you hit the nail on the head. Seems ALL manufacturers are experiencing decrease in profits due to the health crisis and higher costs (supply chain) which push them to at times cut costs that at the end, translate to greater losses.
what is the standard cost of an upper pan reseal job
lesson learnt always check oil galleries on new parts. Put brand new crank in big block chev and on 1 journal the hole wasnt drilled all the way through.
Good video
Gotta say, I'm a 5.9 Cummins owner and I do not like a two piece oil pan, an oil circuit pan, ten a pan with the sump. I say design a functioning block in the first place. Only problems I've ever had are water pumps, about every 100,000 miles or less, oil pan rotted out at 170,000 miles, put a snow depot stainless pan on(nice piece), only think is it will worry the hell out of you, the square corner sump is close as hell to the frame even with new engine mounts but I've inspected it and it's never come in contact with the frame. I'm at 196,000 miles and now the front crankshaft seal is leaking, more of a deep, barely ever drips on ground. Live in Michigan, waiting for weather warmup, field repair, driveway.
where can i get a oil pan with rubber gasket, My is a 2019 f250 6.7
A good hint it's, ir you messed up with the lube system on any engine, before actually starts, first crank the engine a few seconds until oil pressure builds up. This way you can prevent a dry start on ítems like turbos, and prevent engine damage in general. Control of quality sucks in this days
Yes I saw a brand new 390 that - I guess Chevy guys - someone either left out the pencil driving the oil pump or dropped it in the hole…
It ran for 30 minutes on assembly lube while they troubleshooted the oil pressure guage.
Then it turned its last turn