I recently had a game where I ran Crons vs. DG, needless to say I had the Nightbringer and he had Morty. Rightly he tried to focus down the Nightbringer before he could get into CC with Morty, but didn't quite succeed. The Nightbringer tore Morty in half, and I was elated for about 10 seconds before Morty blew up and took the Nightbringer with him :(
Yeah I have both armies. I'd say Nightbringer only kills Mortarion about a third of the time because any smart opponent won't let it get to him healthy enough to win the fight if at all.
Nightbringer is designed to counter stuff like Morty. 1v1, Nightbringer can more often than not kill Morty outright, even fairly easily. For half the points. "Any smart opponent" though, by the same token, Morty often will be staring down some focus fire himself before Nightbringer gets to him too.
@@Weltall8000 one opponent i face had nightbringer, i play guard he talked up nightbringer was gonna tear up my whole army, after turn one with a pair of full payload manticores, tank commanders and overlapping fields of fire to the face, the man had a surprised pikachu face. No matter how strong a unit is at one thing they all have a counter
@@MegaJiffyman Your opponent was probably a moron. As for "everything has a counter," that's kinda corroborating what I am saying. Nightbringer just happens to be awesome at hunting and dropping very powerful single units in duels. When one runs the math, Nightbringer usually crushes even the mighty Mortarion, and costs far less points while doing it. Now outplaying the Necron is certainly possible, but all things being equal, Nightbringer is a pretty hard counter to a unit like Morty.
Me: Well I know he says it a lot but I can't imagine it's that bad. AT: Says it literally three times in ten seconds in the Land Raider section Me: holy shit
Something to consider for helbrutes that I would argue bumps them to tier 2 is they are bubonic astartes. That means you can give them the haze of corruption stratagem for damage spill over and decimate units, or use the other stratagems for bubonic astartes, and helbrutes count for the secondary that requires bubonic astartes. I’d say that gives them a tier 2 evaluation.
Helbrutes are actually much improved in thus codex. Ontop of the benefits you stated there, they also get access to a +1 to hit and wound strat, and they reroll hit rolls of 1 once they take a wound. They’re very solid for their points cost and what they can load out with. A fist can really mess stuff up, and the changes to melta means they can actually effectively kill tanks. Can even wound a knight on 2s.
For Strike Force battles, I like to put my helbrute in strategic reserve, so (1) it doesn't get shot to pieces on the first turn (2) I can deploy it within 12" of a priority target and enjoy D6+2 damage + flamer action + potential charge. That, with all of what you said, makes it tier 2 for me, definitely.
Great video, very accurate I think. The one thing I think that people overlook with the Blight Haulers vs the PBC is the strat to half number of incoming shots. Multimeltas, twin lascannons etc going to half shots is filthy and I think this is why it's 140 points now. Plus as a unit (I take in squads of two) they can be a good place for buffs,
When I'm playing against deathguard, i find it's best to to spam anti vehicle weapons no matter what, the only thing it won't help with is pox walkers, but thats what infantry is for
So the rule on setting up Fortifications says ". Unless otherwise stated, when setting Fortifications up on the battlefield, they cannot be set up within 3" of any other terrain feature that is not part of its own datasheet (excluding hills, page 260)." However this unit has a rule that says it can be set up ANYWHERE on the battlefield more than 12 inches from enemy deployment zone and enemy models. So it is 'otherwise stated' per the exception.
I'd say that for pure damage Plague Marines outperform Blightlord (not Deathshroud) termies. Provided you can get them there a ten man squad of Plague Marines with a tallyman and a hit re-roll aura (Maybe even Arch Contaminator) kitted out for melee can be extremely scary even to vehicles. 2 flails 2 axes and 2 mace's with 6/3/3 attacks hitting on 2/3/3 respectively from the tallyman buff can do some serious work. Blightlords are tougher but plague marines have access to the same and better weapons.
PMs can potentially even outhit Deathshroud. With buffs from Tallyman and Biologus Putrifier for MWs on 6s, popping Trench fighters for a total of 4 attacks per PM (the same amount of attacks as Deathshroud but twice as many bodies), and possible popping Haze of Corruption for splash damage on Flails and Cleavers, PMs can pump out a serious amount of damage. With 2 Flails, 2 Cleavers, 2 Maces, 2 Axes, 1 extra knife, and 1 power fist, hitting on 2s/3s, thats an average of 7 MWs alone on top of the damage from the weapons which are wounding on 2s or 3s for most targets (pop eternal hatred for 2s on basically everything). Its expensive and risky to pull off, and tiresome since you have to roll each weapon individually, but they can destroy basically anything they look at.
@@purtyboi4901 Agreed but I'd still give the edge to the Deathshroud simply for the fact that every attack they make is Str 7 with their cleave profile so against any MSU unit they'll be wounding on 2+ due to contagion and vs t7/t8 they'll we wounding on 3+/4+ again due to contagion. They also get a boatload of attacks at S5 with their scythe profile. They also get the added benefit of all of that being baseline thus not costing any command points.
@@effindave6909 I totally agree, Deathshroud are one of my favorite units in the new codex. In terms or pure reliable damage output, Deathshroud win over PMs with the added benefit of being far more survivable. Combined with the fact that a squad of 5 Deathshroud is only like 20 pts more than a max squad of melee PMs, id take the termies over PMs any day. I was just pointing out that, in terms of pure potential NOVA, PMs are the killiest in the codex. Deathshroud cap at 42 damage on either profile (42 attacks @ 1 damage or 21 attacks @ 2 damage). A squad of PMs with trench fighters could put out upwards of 90 damage. But that's relying on them actually getting up the board into melee, which your opponent is not likely to allow happen, and is reliant on stratagems whereas Deathshroud arent.
Yeah I was looking at the Land Raider and I was like "Wow, this thing is BONKERS! How many POINTS is th-" ANd then I flipped to the points menu and started laughing knowing I would never, ever take a Land Raider ;n;
After the point increase of haulers I started do use a single melee bloat drone and I was really happy about the result. Also the stratagem makes him a really reliable melee machine chomping out infantry, probably the best option right now (other than mortarion of course) which is both fast and deadly
It's great to see my favorite death guard units being really good. I wish the bloat drone and blight hauler were a bit better, but at least they seem ok.
Miasmic Malgnifier is actually really good, it has the keyword so it can benefit From Flash Outbreak early on. Has decent T and the litle pipe provides cover already, so you always get -1 to hit. Decent overall as if you can’t place it midfield you’ll at least have -1 to hit
Hellbrute is actually also really good! It’s CORE and can have good shooting. I recommend two with twin HB and ML. Then, add tallyman ;) 1CP per turn is nice, and he can give one hellbrute +1 to hit (other uses frenzy) so you have 2 hellbrute hitting on 2+ rerolling 1s. But wait! There’s more ;) add relic on tallyman and both brutes have exploding 6s! So already you have mix of DA and Imperial fists, but with bolsters, you can one up this... as with another strat one can be plague weapon (so rerolling 1s) and if you have a gunline already with LOV you reroll 1s and 6s to hit proc more hits and reroll 1 to wound and 6 to wound are -1 more ap. Fairly decent IMO.
Also, point for point... the drones are hilariously good. Give’em flesh movers and between dark cravings and daemonic gluttony they’ll surprise opponents. And with T7, -1dmg, 3+/5++ and 9 wounds ther are really survivable! Then they have 12 str6 attacks with 2dmg hitting on 3+ and rerolling 1 on wound (wounding marines on 2 btw). Also good candidates for flash outbreak. Also 10” fly move is really good. Against marines they are ridiculous. 3 will break anyone. With mower definitely tier 1, with plague spitter still ok, with Mortarion Chosen and D2 stratagem
While I know this is specifically for the codex, worth mentioning that Contemptor is gross is Death Guard, especially since Tallyman buff can target him. There is no more efficient shooting unit in the game then a Death Guard contemptor when you consider all the buffs (and debuffs) it has access to.
@@horacethehippo2445 they really aren't. SM can field armies that DG have no chance at defeating. Yes we can prolly beat the armies without codexs atm. That will change with time.
The Helbrutes can actually be incredibly good with Twin-lascannons and Missile Launcher. Especially when given a +1 to hit from the Tallyman. Hide them, then move them out to hard strike the opponents armour or scarier threats. Works for quad-lascannon Contemptors too.
Thank you very much. This video couldn't have come at a better time, as I am starting to build a Death Guard army. You've given me a good idea of what units I'll be picking up first. Awesome content as usual man, keep up the great work. 👍👍
i think possessed are very decent melee they can blend through those deathwing terminators squads , taken in 10man units with a tallyman they can do some crazy stuff ,
I think, the drones should be Tier 1. DG are usually starved for Mobility and these guys can reliably threaten backline units of your enemy or push up in turn 1 while being quite tough to remove point for point. Generally, this thing does everything your army would otherwise be lacking in. I would not put more than 1 in my competitive lists, but a single drone can be gamechanging I think.
The Chaos Predator does fill a niche that Death Guard are lacking: long range Anti Tank, and not terribly expensive at it either. Or should I be using a Plagueburst Crawler with Entropy Cannons for that role? Or maybe sacrifice range and use a Leviathan Dread with Grav for medium range anti tank?
I think the Miasmic Malignifier isn't that bad, it is a very strategic fortification and the only mono-Deathguard option for infiltration. It is quite cheap, for what it does... EDIT: Normally Objectives are placed outside of terrain, so this Fortification can be placed on an objective.
Hellbrutes with scourge+plasma is 20 point cheaper than a fleshmower. 1 less wound, and 4 inch movement(but hey, it can march with your infantry without problem!) In melee, does 3 extra attack, and provides some shooting too. I think youre wrong about this one.
But the Drone has an invulv save and has much more attacks. I think drones are much better, because theyalso are faster, because most DG units are slow, so this is the most important point here...
@@Silverdragon83X I think your basic argument is invalid. Helbrute has 15 attacks, drone has 12. Since when is 12 much more than 15? And, sure, you can 'rush' with your drone, but it wont catch anything, 10 is still medium-low, and almost nothing in the army has sinergy with that apart from a winged dp. But 35 points for +2M and fly is still questionable. And drone dies just as easily as the helbrute, a 5+ save is nothing.
Competitively speaking I would downgrade plague marines to tier 2. Ultimately you're going to run terminators over them in a competitive list. Poxwalkers will be the troop choice as the inability to perform actions (with the exception of spread the sickness which honestly is a very nice secondary IMO) isn't going to hamper taking them. Take the d3 mortals and move on. I just don't agree that we can in a competitive sense rank plague marines in the same category as blightlord/deathshroud terminators.
I'm a little disappointed to hear that the Blight Hauler is struggling. They're a cheap enough model to purchase and they look great in the field. It's one of our only options for a multi-melta in an army with few heavy weapons. It sounds like their main flaw is that they're just too fragile. Plague bursts are great, but the model costs more than twice what the hauler does. It's definitely something we need to get sorted in our lists.
@@ivanharlokin yeah, and it makes me wonder whether GW knows everyone bought them and used them last edition so they made them inferior this time around. Makes us all but something else! I'm gonna use mine and see if it really is that bad now!
Still trying to figure out how to deal with Mortarion. Other than Nightbringer, there isn't really a single unit that could take him in close combat. One way to drop his wounds and performance is to use Assassinorum and Ephrael Stern, trying to drown him in mortal wounds. They are going to be instantly targeted, but that simply means they also double as a distraction. Also, they can be added to any Imperial army.
@@kangkong6795 Morty should beat Thraka pretty reliably, but there is a somewhat reasonable chance Thraka could take him down with good rolls for him, bad rolls for Mortarion. Da big boss does have a 4++ and cannot lose more than four wounds a phase. Mortarion is a threat is multiple phases though, so, still heavily favoring him, but, possible the Ork could win several out of a hundred fights. Morty probably wins 80-90% of the time. Frankly, I think full melee squad of Plague Marines could kill Mortarion if they swung first. They are not nearly as durable, but they pump out waaaay more damage.
Mortarion or deathshrouds definitely aren't in the same tier as poxwalkers or plague marines... Also helbrutes are more cost-effective than blight haulers, mostly because they are way cheaper and have CORE.
Will hopefully cover characters separately in another vid. I just feel they don't weigh up well directly comparing to damage-dealers providing buffs rather than holding the battle line...
Helbrutes SHOULD be great in a DG army. But they completely ignored them. Felt like abit of a loss really as they can be quiet cool from a fluff stand point. Also the fact that they allowed everything at the end of 8th to get DR for a cost and then forget about it in the 9th edition book is just so hilariously GW that I just had to laugh. I did enjoy running 2 defilers with DR for about 2 months before the 9th edition dropped lmao.
I think Blight Haulers are actually better than Plagueburst Crawler when you play three of each because you can put the three Blight Haulers in one unit meanig you can use buffs like Maisma of Pestilenz or the ironcot furnace at all of them at once, while Plagueburst Crawler can only be buffed one at the time.
Honestly, I think Mortarion is a bit of a trap. Yeah he is a big scary model but he isn't as durable as people think. I have seen him too many times get annihilated T1 leaving the player a quarter of their army down. That's like 500 points that could be put into more utility characters, obsec or heavy hitters like Plagueburst Crawlers or Deathshroud Terminators.
Morty is extremely durable. The kind of firepower he can endure would otherwise be hitting other areas of the DG army. If he eats all the heavy fire, that gives the other 3/4 of the army the freedom to move in and get to work. If he gets deleted turn 1, if it weren't him, it would have been something(s) else of the DG's. Where Morty can be a trap is for the DG player, in that while very strong, he's only one unit. He can become tied up and can be ignored, losing to more diverse armies, especially playing to the objectives.
I still don't understand the love for Blightlords, I've tried fielding them time and time again and every time I've tried them they just don't work. Their combi bolters are garbage, and for their price I could just bring a Deathshroud squad with an extra model
Durability for the points. In that regard they edge out Deathshroud for costing less, while having the same raw defense. Utility. They have better ranged options making them a threat at range, along with solid melee. Obviously Deathshroud destroy them in melee, but Blightlords are a threat outside of close combat too. I say this as someone who likes Deathshroud better and almost always brings at least one unit of Deathshroud in a typical game.
@@Weltall8000 what do you mean they're a threat outside of melee? They have combi bolters, which are garbage. They aren't as bad as Lasguns but damn are they close
@@Weltall8000 yeah but their options are garbage too, plasma, so I can nuke myself, melta, cause who doesn't like having to be point blank to (maybe) kill 5 Marines and flamers, cause who doesn't enjoy doing jack and shit to anything but chaff. For 225-250 points that's a garbage investment imo, in melee theyre decent, but why not just take Deathshroud for cheaper and use the points you saved to get 10-20 Poxwalkers?
@@GenralG7 Cool. You don't like the options. But options they are and they offer something that the Deathshroud do not have in that area. If you want to go that route though, why not just make the whole army Deathshroud Terminators?
@@M.S.G.95 my opponent had 6 blood thristers. It's all I had as targets other than pesky blood letters. 😄 Lemme know if he broke some rules in army building, cuse I lost pretty hard.
The death guard are kinda OP in the fact that they can count as being a turn higher for contagion and if you bring Morty you can have two contagions and morty can have both
@@UnkaStunka if mortarion can have 5 warlord traits and most of the enemy army is moving at half speed turn two with almost no re-rolls for those near morty a castle army near insta lose and all other army’s get bombarded (if mortaron doesn’t insta kill them)while the death guard take objectives
www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-over-the-top-gt/ Considering the single GT we've had since dex launch had us placing 3 of the top 4, I beg to differ.
Will hopefully cover characters separately in another vid. I just feel they don't weigh up well directly comparing to damage-dealers providing buffs rather than holding the battle line...
@@anungunrama9344 Maybe, I ran him in my last game and managed to roll zero 6+'s lol. Losing our 5+ baseline really hurt the faction. Not that I'm complaining mind you. The Death Guard are in a MUCH better place as a whole right now.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
As someone who just started a death guard army, I found this incredibly useful. Thank you!
I recently had a game where I ran Crons vs. DG, needless to say I had the Nightbringer and he had Morty. Rightly he tried to focus down the Nightbringer before he could get into CC with Morty, but didn't quite succeed. The Nightbringer tore Morty in half, and I was elated for about 10 seconds before Morty blew up and took the Nightbringer with him :(
Yeah I have both armies. I'd say Nightbringer only kills Mortarion about a third of the time because any smart opponent won't let it get to him healthy enough to win the fight if at all.
Nightbringer is designed to counter stuff like Morty. 1v1, Nightbringer can more often than not kill Morty outright, even fairly easily. For half the points.
"Any smart opponent" though, by the same token, Morty often will be staring down some focus fire himself before Nightbringer gets to him too.
@@Weltall8000 one opponent i face had nightbringer, i play guard he talked up nightbringer was gonna tear up my whole army, after turn one with a pair of full payload manticores, tank commanders and overlapping fields of fire to the face, the man had a surprised pikachu face. No matter how strong a unit is at one thing they all have a counter
@@MegaJiffyman Your opponent was probably a moron.
As for "everything has a counter," that's kinda corroborating what I am saying. Nightbringer just happens to be awesome at hunting and dropping very powerful single units in duels. When one runs the math, Nightbringer usually crushes even the mighty Mortarion, and costs far less points while doing it. Now outplaying the Necron is certainly possible, but all things being equal, Nightbringer is a pretty hard counter to a unit like Morty.
@@MegaJiffyman nightbringer isn’t super scary considering most armies now can do three wounds a phase.
Drink every time when he says “point for point”
Me: Well I know he says it a lot but I can't imagine it's that bad.
AT: Says it literally three times in ten seconds in the Land Raider section
Me: holy shit
I don't want to die today...
Drink everytime he has a bri'ish accent
I don't want to die yet
If you want alcohol poisoning 😂😂
Something to consider for helbrutes that I would argue bumps them to tier 2 is they are bubonic astartes. That means you can give them the haze of corruption stratagem for damage spill over and decimate units, or use the other stratagems for bubonic astartes, and helbrutes count for the secondary that requires bubonic astartes. I’d say that gives them a tier 2 evaluation.
Helbrutes are actually much improved in thus codex. Ontop of the benefits you stated there, they also get access to a +1 to hit and wound strat, and they reroll hit rolls of 1 once they take a wound. They’re very solid for their points cost and what they can load out with. A fist can really mess stuff up, and the changes to melta means they can actually effectively kill tanks. Can even wound a knight on 2s.
For Strike Force battles, I like to put my helbrute in strategic reserve, so (1) it doesn't get shot to pieces on the first turn (2) I can deploy it within 12" of a priority target and enjoy D6+2 damage + flamer action + potential charge. That, with all of what you said, makes it tier 2 for me, definitely.
As someone who wants to start a Death Guard army in the future this is going to be a very useful video to keep in mind!
Great video, very accurate I think. The one thing I think that people overlook with the Blight Haulers vs the PBC is the strat to half number of incoming shots. Multimeltas, twin lascannons etc going to half shots is filthy and I think this is why it's 140 points now. Plus as a unit (I take in squads of two) they can be a good place for buffs,
thanks for such consistent interesting content, AT!
Last time I was this early, Mortarion was still railing against psykers
When I'm playing against deathguard, i find it's best to to spam anti vehicle weapons no matter what, the only thing it won't help with is pox walkers, but thats what infantry is for
yeah 18 eradicators just seems to be the way to go XD
@@JestaultSteinkeKachuik this is SM answer to everything, including mortarion
Man Eradicators are broken lol
@@ForTehNguyen *Nightbringer noises*
Auspex Tactics "Point for Point" vs. Duncan's "Two thin coats" in a catchphrase death battle when?
So the rule on setting up Fortifications says ". Unless otherwise stated, when
setting Fortifications up on the battlefield, they cannot be set up
within 3" of any other terrain feature that is not part of its own
datasheet (excluding hills, page 260)." However this unit has a rule that says it can be set up ANYWHERE on the battlefield more than 12 inches from enemy deployment zone and enemy models. So it is 'otherwise stated' per the exception.
As someone who started a Death Guard army with Dark Imperium I found this really useful!
great video! would love to see a tier of the chaos marine more niche heavy & FW options too. Your content is always at such a high level, thanks!
I'd say that for pure damage Plague Marines outperform Blightlord (not Deathshroud) termies. Provided you can get them there a ten man squad of Plague Marines with a tallyman and a hit re-roll aura (Maybe even Arch Contaminator) kitted out for melee can be extremely scary even to vehicles. 2 flails 2 axes and 2 mace's with 6/3/3 attacks hitting on 2/3/3 respectively from the tallyman buff can do some serious work. Blightlords are tougher but plague marines have access to the same and better weapons.
PMs can potentially even outhit Deathshroud. With buffs from Tallyman and Biologus Putrifier for MWs on 6s, popping Trench fighters for a total of 4 attacks per PM (the same amount of attacks as Deathshroud but twice as many bodies), and possible popping Haze of Corruption for splash damage on Flails and Cleavers, PMs can pump out a serious amount of damage.
With 2 Flails, 2 Cleavers, 2 Maces, 2 Axes, 1 extra knife, and 1 power fist, hitting on 2s/3s, thats an average of 7 MWs alone on top of the damage from the weapons which are wounding on 2s or 3s for most targets (pop eternal hatred for 2s on basically everything). Its expensive and risky to pull off, and tiresome since you have to roll each weapon individually, but they can destroy basically anything they look at.
@@purtyboi4901 Agreed but I'd still give the edge to the Deathshroud simply for the fact that every attack they make is Str 7 with their cleave profile so against any MSU unit they'll be wounding on 2+ due to contagion and vs t7/t8 they'll we wounding on 3+/4+ again due to contagion. They also get a boatload of attacks at S5 with their scythe profile. They also get the added benefit of all of that being baseline thus not costing any command points.
@@effindave6909 I totally agree, Deathshroud are one of my favorite units in the new codex. In terms or pure reliable damage output, Deathshroud win over PMs with the added benefit of being far more survivable. Combined with the fact that a squad of 5 Deathshroud is only like 20 pts more than a max squad of melee PMs, id take the termies over PMs any day.
I was just pointing out that, in terms of pure potential NOVA, PMs are the killiest in the codex. Deathshroud cap at 42 damage on either profile (42 attacks @ 1 damage or 21 attacks @ 2 damage). A squad of PMs with trench fighters could put out upwards of 90 damage. But that's relying on them actually getting up the board into melee, which your opponent is not likely to allow happen, and is reliant on stratagems whereas Deathshroud arent.
Yeah I was looking at the Land Raider and I was like "Wow, this thing is BONKERS! How many POINTS is th-" ANd then I flipped to the points menu and started laughing knowing I would never, ever take a Land Raider ;n;
Great way to know how to start a death guard army, thanks for yuor time and dedication
You always put out great content and every day! Thank you for what you do!
After the point increase of haulers I started do use a single melee bloat drone and I was really happy about the result. Also the stratagem makes him a really reliable melee machine chomping out infantry, probably the best option right now (other than mortarion of course) which is both fast and deadly
It's great to see my favorite death guard units being really good. I wish the bloat drone and blight hauler were a bit better, but at least they seem ok.
Miasmic Malgnifier is actually really good, it has the keyword so it can benefit From Flash Outbreak early on. Has decent T and the litle pipe provides cover already, so you always get -1 to hit. Decent overall as if you can’t place it midfield you’ll at least have -1 to hit
Hellbrute is actually also really good! It’s CORE and can have good shooting. I recommend two with twin HB and ML. Then, add tallyman ;)
1CP per turn is nice, and he can give one hellbrute +1 to hit (other uses frenzy) so you have 2 hellbrute hitting on 2+ rerolling 1s. But wait! There’s more ;) add relic on tallyman and both brutes have exploding 6s! So already you have mix of DA and Imperial fists, but with bolsters, you can one up this... as with another strat one can be plague weapon (so rerolling 1s) and if you have a gunline already with LOV you reroll 1s and 6s to hit proc more hits and reroll 1 to wound and 6 to wound are -1 more ap. Fairly decent IMO.
Also, point for point... the drones are hilariously good. Give’em flesh movers and between dark cravings and daemonic gluttony they’ll surprise opponents. And with T7, -1dmg, 3+/5++ and 9 wounds ther are really survivable! Then they have 12 str6 attacks with 2dmg hitting on 3+ and rerolling 1 on wound (wounding marines on 2 btw). Also good candidates for flash outbreak. Also 10” fly move is really good. Against marines they are ridiculous. 3 will break anyone. With mower definitely tier 1, with plague spitter still ok, with Mortarion Chosen and D2 stratagem
Also, I believe possessed can’t ride rhino
While I know this is specifically for the codex, worth mentioning that Contemptor is gross is Death Guard, especially since Tallyman buff can target him. There is no more efficient shooting unit in the game then a Death Guard contemptor when you consider all the buffs (and debuffs) it has access to.
Tier 1: Half of the range lol. DG strong!
Thats because this video concentrates completely on the deathguard... in comparsion to other codices some tier a units would drop to 2 or 3
They’re rlly op rn
@@horacethehippo2445 they are not comoared to the space marines and necron codex
@@horacethehippo2445 they really aren't. SM can field armies that DG have no chance at defeating. Yes we can prolly beat the armies without codexs atm. That will change with time.
The Helbrutes can actually be incredibly good with Twin-lascannons and Missile Launcher. Especially when given a +1 to hit from the Tallyman. Hide them, then move them out to hard strike the opponents armour or scarier threats.
Works for quad-lascannon Contemptors too.
I would really like to see a focus on the crawler. It's fast and has no min range anymore. It also is not affected by heavy weapon penalty.
As someone who had a death guard army already I found this insanely useful.
Thank you very much. This video couldn't have come at a better time, as I am starting to build a Death Guard army. You've given me a good idea of what units I'll be picking up first.
Awesome content as usual man, keep up the great work. 👍👍
Awesome stuff. Hoping to see many break down vids of the individual units! :) 🧙🏻♂️
Would be nice to receive the codex at all. waiting since I pre-ordered it. Anyway, nice video!
Right there with you budddy.
i think possessed are very decent melee they can blend through those deathwing terminators squads , taken in 10man units with a tallyman they can do some crazy stuff ,
Same with fleshmower bloat drones, plus they're super speedy
I think, the drones should be Tier 1. DG are usually starved for Mobility and these guys can reliably threaten backline units of your enemy or push up in turn 1 while being quite tough to remove point for point. Generally, this thing does everything your army would otherwise be lacking in. I would not put more than 1 in my competitive lists, but a single drone can be gamechanging I think.
Auspex Tactics can you do some more money saving/ collecting on a budget videos please because I’m looking to expand my army?
I think for bloat drones the fleshmower versin is a 1. Fast, can spread contagion and crazy damage
Would be keen to see a similar video on the support characters as well
The Chaos Predator does fill a niche that Death Guard are lacking: long range Anti Tank, and not terribly expensive at it either.
Or should I be using a Plagueburst Crawler with Entropy Cannons for that role? Or maybe sacrifice range and use a Leviathan Dread with Grav for medium range anti tank?
We need this one redone! :)
Great video
10:48 Why would it be wrong to bring 1 to 3 of these? What if a person only has 1 or 3? They are a bit expensive to buy 4 to 6
if only I had the new codex. ordered it over a month ago.
I think the Miasmic Malignifier isn't that bad, it is a very strategic fortification and the only mono-Deathguard option for infiltration. It is quite cheap, for what it does...
EDIT: Normally Objectives are placed outside of terrain, so this Fortification can be placed on an objective.
Can you do this for eldar and the other factions?
I confidently predict you'll get one of these whenever the new codex for each army drops
how about the chaos redemptor with 2x twin vulkite
Blight Haulers were so much better with that -1 to hit bubble they used to put out if you had 3 of them.
Hellbrutes with scourge+plasma is 20 point cheaper than a fleshmower. 1 less wound, and 4 inch movement(but hey, it can march with your infantry without problem!) In melee, does 3 extra attack, and provides some shooting too. I think youre wrong about this one.
But the Drone has an invulv save and has much more attacks. I think drones are much better, because theyalso are faster, because most DG units are slow, so this is the most important point here...
@@Silverdragon83X I think your basic argument is invalid. Helbrute has 15 attacks, drone has 12. Since when is 12 much more than 15? And, sure, you can 'rush' with your drone, but it wont catch anything, 10 is still medium-low, and almost nothing in the army has sinergy with that apart from a winged dp. But 35 points for +2M and fly is still questionable. And drone dies just as easily as the helbrute, a 5+ save is nothing.
@@lordhusee How is the Helbrute getting 15 attacks? With the scourge, you are getting eight.
Competitively speaking I would downgrade plague marines to tier 2.
Ultimately you're going to run terminators over them in a competitive list. Poxwalkers will be the troop choice as the inability to perform actions (with the exception of spread the sickness which honestly is a very nice secondary IMO) isn't going to hamper taking them. Take the d3 mortals and move on. I just don't agree that we can in a competitive sense rank plague marines in the same category as blightlord/deathshroud terminators.
Imao haulers and drones (with mowers) are top tier too
mower drones yes, haulers are too expensive compared with the pbc
Can mortarion attack 14 or 21 times with his scythe? Actually thought it was 14 until now
so is it true for the Blight lords that only one unit could be equipped with a heavy weapon?
@Keith Marshall I don't want to do that- can't I just say all other units are with storm bolters
I'm a little disappointed to hear that the Blight Hauler is struggling. They're a cheap enough model to purchase and they look great in the field. It's one of our only options for a multi-melta in an army with few heavy weapons. It sounds like their main flaw is that they're just too fragile. Plague bursts are great, but the model costs more than twice what the hauler does. It's definitely something we need to get sorted in our lists.
Their main problem is that they are a bit overpriced points wise.
@@ivanharlokin yeah, and it makes me wonder whether GW knows everyone bought them and used them last edition so they made them inferior this time around. Makes us all but something else! I'm gonna use mine and see if it really is that bad now!
what no forge world models?
do it whit name unit too
Plague Marines have obsec? 8:27
Still trying to figure out how to deal with Mortarion. Other than Nightbringer, there isn't really a single unit that could take him in close combat.
One way to drop his wounds and performance is to use Assassinorum and Ephrael Stern, trying to drown him in mortal wounds. They are going to be instantly targeted, but that simply means they also double as a distraction. Also, they can be added to any Imperial army.
How does Ghazghkull stack up against him out of curiosity? Not played for a couple years now but am very taken with the new bigger than a dread Ghaz 😀
@@kangkong6795 Morty should beat Thraka pretty reliably, but there is a somewhat reasonable chance Thraka could take him down with good rolls for him, bad rolls for Mortarion. Da big boss does have a 4++ and cannot lose more than four wounds a phase. Mortarion is a threat is multiple phases though, so, still heavily favoring him, but, possible the Ork could win several out of a hundred fights. Morty probably wins 80-90% of the time.
Frankly, I think full melee squad of Plague Marines could kill Mortarion if they swung first. They are not nearly as durable, but they pump out waaaay more damage.
@@Weltall8000 thanks
Mortal wounds and weaking his invulv. save works good, otherwise killing Mortarion is extremely hard.
Great vid, could you do a vid on how to run a legends renegades and heretics?
Mortarion or deathshrouds definitely aren't in the same tier as poxwalkers or plague marines... Also helbrutes are more cost-effective than blight haulers, mostly because they are way cheaper and have CORE.
I think mortarion can only take one of the three warlord traits + a plague company one
No Foetid Virions?
Will hopefully cover characters separately in another vid. I just feel they don't weigh up well directly comparing to damage-dealers providing buffs rather than holding the battle line...
why are some of the non-HQ units not mentioned? are they tier 4 or did you just forget?
That's one of the first things he says he wanted to cover it in a later vid he never did though:/
Wow, last time i was this early the beast's WAAAAGHHH!!! was still goin.
Helbrutes SHOULD be great in a DG army. But they completely ignored them. Felt like abit of a loss really as they can be quiet cool from a fluff stand point. Also the fact that they allowed everything at the end of 8th to get DR for a cost and then forget about it in the 9th edition book is just so hilariously GW that I just had to laugh. I did enjoy running 2 defilers with DR for about 2 months before the 9th edition dropped lmao.
I mix death guard and chaos
So sad that Land Raiders and Predators suck. They’ve got some of the best vehicle aesthetics in the whole game IMO.
Likes for the like god!
Comments for the algorithm throne
Cult of the Annoying Fly approves this video
Makes all psychic tests 2+ to pass. You ever tried chanting with all that buzzing?
I guess its time to stock up on some anti horde and anti elite infantry weapons.
Nah, since cultists can do flags and scramblers comparing to poxwalkers, they have some play
point for point
Point for point.
@@auspextactics point for pint, or vice versa? which works out best? ha ha.
@@auspextactics pint for point, as then you'd have 2 thousand pints.
I really thing plague marines are tiers 2 and bloat drone with flesh mower tiers 1...
And hellbrute is not tiers 3.
I think Blight Haulers are actually better than Plagueburst Crawler when you play three of each because you can put the three Blight Haulers in one unit meanig you can use buffs like Maisma of Pestilenz or the ironcot furnace at all of them at once, while Plagueburst Crawler can only be buffed one at the time.
Yeah my Blight Haulers got fucked and I will still field 3 of them. Because fuck the Rules :D
Did I liked the video? I mean, first thumbs up, then look!
Honestly, I think Mortarion is a bit of a trap. Yeah he is a big scary model but he isn't as durable as people think. I have seen him too many times get annihilated T1 leaving the player a quarter of their army down. That's like 500 points that could be put into more utility characters, obsec or heavy hitters like Plagueburst Crawlers or Deathshroud Terminators.
Morty is extremely durable. The kind of firepower he can endure would otherwise be hitting other areas of the DG army. If he eats all the heavy fire, that gives the other 3/4 of the army the freedom to move in and get to work. If he gets deleted turn 1, if it weren't him, it would have been something(s) else of the DG's.
Where Morty can be a trap is for the DG player, in that while very strong, he's only one unit. He can become tied up and can be ignored, losing to more diverse armies, especially playing to the objectives.
i would say a hellbrute is top tier 3, since it has a use vs horde lists
yes low tier 2 would be its place
I personally think mortarion is 0 tier
Terminators are good but with everyone swimming in melta shots it doesn't matter
I personally think plague marines should switch tiers with the bloat drone.
I still don't understand the love for Blightlords, I've tried fielding them time and time again and every time I've tried them they just don't work. Their combi bolters are garbage, and for their price I could just bring a Deathshroud squad with an extra model
Durability for the points. In that regard they edge out Deathshroud for costing less, while having the same raw defense.
Utility. They have better ranged options making them a threat at range, along with solid melee. Obviously Deathshroud destroy them in melee, but Blightlords are a threat outside of close combat too.
I say this as someone who likes Deathshroud better and almost always brings at least one unit of Deathshroud in a typical game.
@@Weltall8000 what do you mean they're a threat outside of melee? They have combi bolters, which are garbage. They aren't as bad as Lasguns but damn are they close
@@GenralG7 They can replace combibolters with other weapons.
@@Weltall8000 yeah but their options are garbage too, plasma, so I can nuke myself, melta, cause who doesn't like having to be point blank to (maybe) kill 5 Marines and flamers, cause who doesn't enjoy doing jack and shit to anything but chaff. For 225-250 points that's a garbage investment imo, in melee theyre decent, but why not just take Deathshroud for cheaper and use the points you saved to get 10-20 Poxwalkers?
@@GenralG7 Cool. You don't like the options. But options they are and they offer something that the Deathshroud do not have in that area.
If you want to go that route though, why not just make the whole army Deathshroud Terminators?
My Mortarion was obliterated in 1 turn by 2 Bloodthristers.
then you signed his warrant in the movement phase
Why would you bring Morty against 2 Bloodthirsters? I get that Morty is insanely durable but come on, Bloodthirsters just hit WAY too hard.
@@M.S.G.95 my opponent had 6 blood thristers. It's all I had as targets other than pesky blood letters. 😄
Lemme know if he broke some rules in army building, cuse I lost pretty hard.
🔥🎸🔥
Rhino should be in tier 1, because without it Plague Marines wouldn't be tier 1
What's this? A tier video that doesn't use the Smash Bros tier format?
Last time I was this early, you could still kill blightlords
Or Immortarion
Plauge marines are not worth it imo. Just spend the points on terminators and run poxwalkers
The death guard are kinda OP in the fact that they can count as being a turn higher for contagion and if you bring Morty you can have two contagions and morty can have both
No.
@@UnkaStunka yeah flash outbreak does all that
@@nintendo_ruler it's not op
@@UnkaStunka if mortarion can have 5 warlord traits and most of the enemy army is moving at half speed turn two with almost no re-rolls for those near morty a castle army near insta lose and all other army’s get bombarded (if mortaron doesn’t insta kill them)while the death guard take objectives
@@nintendo_ruler but not on mortarion since he doesnt have the keyword
484th!
Pure death guard has no chance at the top tables. Maybe in.chaos soup.
www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-over-the-top-gt/
Considering the single GT we've had since dex launch had us placing 3 of the top 4, I beg to differ.
Wait why are the feotid virion not included?
Will hopefully cover characters separately in another vid. I just feel they don't weigh up well directly comparing to damage-dealers providing buffs rather than holding the battle line...
They are all pretty much t1 aside from the Noxious Blightbringer and MAYBE the Plague Surgeon.
@@effindave6909 I feel like Plague surgeon would be t1 because you put the helm on him for more range
@@anungunrama9344 Maybe, I ran him in my last game and managed to roll zero 6+'s lol. Losing our 5+ baseline really hurt the faction. Not that I'm complaining mind you. The Death Guard are in a MUCH better place as a whole right now.