Is Bigger Better? 15 Inch Vs 17 Inch Wheels & Tires
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Are 15-inch wheels and tires faster than 17-inch wheels and tires on a FWD Honda Kswap K20 Civic? We find out using 15x7.5 Konig Hypergram wheels with 225/205 Nankang AR-1 tires and 17x8 Konig Dekagram wheels with 235/215 Nankang AR-1 tires.
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If this was the the early 2000s everyone would still be rocking 20s with spinner rims.
If I had money for rims that's what I would have good thing about not having any friends or wanting any is you just do whatever u want I am never up to date on what's cool this is my only social media 😆
No those people now have slammed cars with tilted wheels, same same but different.
@@thenameidk3168 good for you?
@@thenameidk3168 that’s pretty stupid dude
@@jasondoulkeridis6202 and yet you’d still get smoked by an enthusiast car with 20” wheels with crazy camber 😅
In my opinion, you could improve this test by choosing wheel and tyre combinations that give the same overall rolling diameter for comparison. (Increasing the rolling diameter of the wheel, as you did with the 17" setup, does actually increase the size of the contact patches. It also affects the gearing as you pointed out in your video. But, perhaps most importantly, it changes the ride height - the CoG has moved up in Z, away from the ground plane - which puts all your suspension setup out of kilter.) All can be easily resolved if you using the same rolling diameter setups for comparison. Nice vid though, thanks for sharing.
ah if only. the semi-slick or tire oriented rubber was in many sizes... it is often hard to even find something for car u use. without bigger modyfications.
Exactly. He is comparing apples to oranges. Not apples to apples.
I agree
I’m an old school small wheel fan too DP. I like the 15s and bronze is never a bad choice. I understand why you guys are experimenting since you have access to these wheels and tires. Good video as always.
15inch are the sweet spot..... larger are for looks, unless u driving a supercar
@@samuelwong4152 Larger is not really for looks. As he mention, people like myself that has a K24 swap, the oil pan is like 2" off the ground and it always worries me. The larger wheel will raise the car up higher to give a better ground clearance for the oil pan. One of the most important thing on going to 17" wheel besides wider selection of tire size, is to fit larger brakes too. No, larger brake is not for looks. You can go much deeper into the corner before braking in which can give more confidence for the driver and results you can go faster better lap time. In order to go fast, you can to have confidence in your brakes! Of course, this is all track/racing talk. For streets in which I don't care for as I drive a $1000 daily POS, I guess it is important for the looks for some people?
So you attempt to appear scientific by comparing two sets of tires and simultaneously changing two variables. So does the width affect performance? The tire diameter? Or is it a combination of the two? I guess we'll never know. How about 15s with 235/215 width or 17s with 225/205? What about ride? Sidewall flex? Acceleration? Different cars with differing gear ratios (tighter/ wider)? You created more questions and provided no real answers.
This isn't a test about just tires, the whole purpose of stepping to 17's is that you can get more tire width on the car because if not then why upgrade if all your gaining is weight and perhaps slightly better gearing for this track. It's not hard to know the outcome. We are trying to test a practical real world 15 vs 17 setup that many people run and use that can fit on their stock fender Civic.
But you don't know if it's the tyre width making the car quicker overall; or the ability to hang onto 2nd gear from bigger wheel/tyre diameter on this track only.
@@MrHairyTeabag Well if you watch the video he does say the car grips and handles better on the 17s. Sure the ability to use 2nd gear in the tighter turns helps with the speed too but that will be dependent on what track you're driving on. The improved grip and handling balance is relevant on any track not just ones with tight 2nd gear corners.
MrHairyTeabag You're correct in single parameter test terms. They're pretty transparent tho thst it's a "this vs that" test not variation of just width, circumference or weight.
Is it important maintaing the same offset (ET) when you upgrade to a wider wheels / tires? How was your setup?
You have made a great effort with this video. However, the tyre sizes could have been chosen differently to make them as close to the same height as possible. 225/45/15 has 23" diameter. 235/40/17 has 24.4" diameter. Maybe 225/35/17 with a total height of 23.2" would be a better choice here. For a wider tyre contact wider wheels should be used. Of course there are more size choices with 17" tyres, but for me this is cheating. The taller tyres are fitted to gain better side wall stiffness at the same height. That stiffness will be better with 17" diameter and also depending the wheel manufacturer the weight difference would be less then 1.5kg between 15 & 17"!
No kidding,,, Not an Apple to Apple comparison. I would get much wider 15" rim, maybe even 14" and 245 tire. The response Diff was all tire stretch config (width of rim vs tire). I would have gone with 15x9 rim with 245/50. That would give similar drive ratio, but sharper steering, quicker acceleration, faster braking, better aerodynamics, better pot hole resistance,,, and all with a Cadillac like ride !! Why are people so bling bling stupid? Btw, have you noticed the size of front brakes behind those 19"ers on the ricer racer?
What I would have liked to have seen is same rolling diameter and same width 15" vs 17" where the difference is lower profile. Then do another one with slightly wider same rolling diameter.
I find 15" with 45 series is too much sidewall and the tire rolls over even with z221's which have very stiff sidewall. I prefer 17" 35-40 series personally. 235
@Sandy Lee Yes, obviously the lighter the better and running a smaller rolling diameter for acceleration up until it starts to affect your gearing for cornering. But I have never found 15" to be beneficial because the side walls are way too high for the rolling diameter I like to use (usually so my speedo is accurate). For example, at my local track in my wifes car we were running 8" wide rims with 215/55/15 tires, the sidewalls were so sloppy and even though the width was slightly streched to tighten the tire up it was just way too tall and would slide as if the tire were overheating, but i could feel them rolling under the rim. We switched to 215/45/17 mostly because my wife wanted some lighter rims and the 17" rpf 01's are lighter than the old 15" no name's. My times on the same track went from a 1.16.3 to a 1.12.8 (i think) in the same season with no additional mods. The engine is also losing compression so I do believe we actually had less power on the faster day. The car was much more stable, no more tires rolling, much more outright grip and tire pressures were a lot more flexible and forgiving. I have been driving this track for over 10 years, and am usually very consistent with my times, always within 0.5 of a second from visit to visit.
If we were running 215/40/15's things would have been a lot different. But for our car that rolling diameter is too small. I guess what I'm saying is usually to keep the same rolling diameter you need to step up the profile to a taller sidewall which can have negative effects. The same as going too small/skinny.
@@Skirk84 Too skinny is almost never good for handling, except in deep snow rally. But some of the best handling race cars like Shifter Carts and Formula 1s have relatively small diameter tires, with very TALL side walls. 215/55 on 15x8" seems like an over stretched setup. Why not go 235/45, or 235/50 or even 235/55,(on a 15x9, if necessary) if gearing is such an issue? The gearing issue sounds like a false narrative to me. You can easily change the gearbox ratio, next time you open up the transmission to replace the clutch. Instead, you want to go big on rolling package and throw away every performance advantage that comes with lighter and proper setup? All this sounds too bling bling to me, if you ask me. Those bling bling headers with embedded logos could make BUNCH More power if wrapped, but i doubt these guys will choose fuction over Fashion. If you insulate the header and keep the heat in the pipe, it will spool up the turbo much quicker. It totally transforms the engine. You just have to tolerate the bandaged look. Ceramic coated headers or even titanium wraps are not the same, and not as effective, especially ceramic coats.
@@suesan5111 By too skinny i meant sidewall height. 8" is the widest I can fit on my wifes car, 235 is fine but I have to muck around with the offsets a bit to make them fit. As i said the current 17" are lighter than our old 15". The only way to stop the tire from rolling over is run a higher pressure, and then the tire just overheats and i slide just as much. Im not worried about gaining power as ive been losing power over the last 5 years due to a dying engine. Used to be 116kw atw, now 80kw. Also no turbo on this car.
Im even thinking of going 235/40/17 over 215/45/17, If i could run 235/45/17 that would be much better... I dont know how people make 55 series work as im driving on the sidewalls scrubbing off my lettering.
Also its definitely not easy to change the gear ratio... Buying and installing another LSD with a higher final drive is not cheap or easy.
On my car I run 315/30/18 with more sidewall than my wifes 17's
I love wheel/tire info. Probably my favorite subject when talking about cars.
No kidding,,, Not an Apple to Apple comparison. I would get much wider 15" rim, maybe even 14" and 245 tire. The response Diff was all tire stretch config (width of rim vs tire). I would have gone with 15x9 rim with 245/50. That would give similar drive ratio, but sharper steering, quicker acceleration, faster braking, better aerodynamics, better pot hole resistance,,, and all with a Cadillac like ride !! Why are people so bling bling stupid? Btw, have you noticed the size of front brakes behind those 19"ers on the ricer racer?
Garbage Built Hondas 👏👍
Garage Built Hondas good 4 u mate
Same. It's a shame everyone's so fucking stingy with specs
@AOMechMarine AOMechMarine I find smallest rims that clears the calipers. Typically there has to be 4" diffrence between between brake disc diameter and wheel diameter, so i did a quick math and found that i could go from 16 to 15 on my Subaru Imprezza Rs 2.5 gc8. The very cheap 15s were actually heavier than the Factory 16s, but it still did it's job. It made the awd launch even more brutal (while causing much less stress to the diff, drive shafts, gears and clutch. It totally transformed the lauchability), braked faster, handled sharper, and rode smoother. I mean, what serious enthusiast cares about top speed? Does any car that comes with 6 or 7 or 8 speed and 3 over drive at the top, do theoretical 300+ mph? It's about acceleration and proper gear ratios. Pretty much all cars come with too tall gearing, that's improper for racing. Shortening up the gearing typically fixes the each and every gears. Going an inch shorter barely effects top speed, speedometer or mileage. If you are so bothered by it, you can mount a taller tire on a wider rim (to give more tire stretch) , and still get the same sharp handling and even more comfy ride.
my mind was blown the day i learned that tires weigh more than wheels.
zachary paris when I saw that right now I was mind blown as well
I worked in a tire shop for years...trust me that is not a true statement. They have thousands of heavy wheels with thin low profile tires. Especially on ghetto setups
@@crtinkering7323 Performance tires and wheels then, where the weight is actually a concern.
still saving up for a '99 Riviera donked out on 24s.
@@zacharyparis Sheeeit. Twenny foes is lil league, fam.
@6:16 a beautiful E46 sneaks in, and decides not to interrupt.
Jesus that shifter is bling
Brendan Blackett and you still keep your cup holders.
i want one, i don't even care if its good/expensive.
Brendan Blackett agree...that shifter is sick
K-TUNED
K-tuned shifter. Trust me, that shifter feels chrispy good and precicion when shifting
The best 15” tyre with the endurance to hold and speed up for light cars.
Next up, 22s with 325 wide tires! Great head to head test. 👍🏽
VTEC Academy did you guys “feel” the difference in the unsprung weight in any way, I’m mean it’s 12 lbs, the theory is that it should eat up the torque, right? And the torque multiplayer for the gears and final drive should be less in the 17s? They looked taller, the tire will rotate less than the smaller. Is science more performance art that math?!?! And it’s wider?!? It should be working with more friction!?!!? I guess I’m going to 22’s too. What the frick you guys
@@davidramirez6896 yup, you can for sure feel a difference, mostly under braking. last winter i was rucking 14's on my mx5 for the winter with skinny winter tyres. When i switched to my summer R16's with track toyos, i immediately felt a big difference. I also felt a small difference in aceleration, but that could of been down mostly to way gryppier tires.
Also, bigger wheels will effectively eat torque as you say. Turst me, im an aerospace engineer :p
Ö
You should test also drag race 1/4 m you would see the diference beter then this
@@davidramirez6896 change the air pressure by 2 psi and it will change - is that science!!?
The 17s you tested with are a half-inch wider than the 15s, and a half of a second gain on your laptime is within margin of error. Obviously the wider setup would have more grip in most cases, but this is just negligence in testing. It's not a one-to-one comparison. Science also says that the larger wheels have a higher moment of inertia in acceleration.
Agreed, and this is a long course where half a second could be caused by anything. We're not talking about the quarter mile here.
Bigger wheels mean room for bigger brakes.
If the brakes don't need to be bigger then there's no point. It will just weigh the car down.
Nation Gurung And the larger tire diameter will make your stock brakes work at a less effective ratio. So you need to upgrade to retain the same performance.
Bigger brakes are only necessary if you experience significant fade (Brake Fluid boiling) in common situations, e.g. descending hills or racing if that's your poison. 8-)
Nation Gurung I'm getting my 93 sc300 bbk next week!
Hell yeah
Your driving looked a lot calmer with the 17"'s! Good comparison!
The beefy sidewall of the 15s does give me the tingles downstairs... But the 17s look sharp.
lol the tingles are important
I had a car just like it and it came with 17s when I bought it. A week after I fitted 195/55/15 W rated Pirellis and it was simply amazing.
sick rhymes at the end dp lol
Sick BMW driver on the track!
That thing is a handful. It looks like a lot of fun.
For a K20 engine, I would agree that 17 inch wheels would be better. But I would disagree that 17 inch wheels are better for a smaller engine (like a stock D15B7 engine) that doesnt have the power to move the car efficiently. The real answer is it depends on what engine you are using. Smaller engines perform better with smaller wheels
Sentient Program Mind Blow! F1 Teams have to get this guy!
Nah k20 still performs better with 15" obviously only when NA
Depends if it gives you a handling boost or not. handling > power/accleration for lap times.
@@Skirk84 it doesn't i can proof that in tracks (here in Italy) Like Mugello Vallelunga Imola Misano Magione And Franciacorta 15" with almost 250hp it's still better have 15"
@@findear7785 eh I'd rather have 16s with wider tires. either ways I'd always be trying to get power no matter the engine... b16 turbo I'm putting atleast 215 wide on it
“Oohhh yah hey” lol Canadians LOVE IT 😭🤙👏
I remember being told 17's for show, 15's for go
what about in between, try 16" I am really curious about those results and tire sizes
16’s would be in-between 15 and 17 in how fast they are because the main issue here in the dry on a tight race circuit with reasonable amounts of power and on same type of tire like 100/200 TLW tires is less grip and more gearing.
having a few extra MPH/KPH every gear to wind out the car and hold lower gears longer for more corners. So logically 16 would be in-between 15 and 17. If grip played more of a role as in he making too much power for the chassis or in the wet then Sometimes in-between sizes are better!
I appreciate the attempt, but you’ve got far too many variables at play to really know what’s doing what.
Entertainment
seconded. great apples to apples comparison..../rollseyes
It's a real world test. No one goes up in rim size to use the same width tyre. People go wider tyre on a bigger rim. This is the common practice so no it's not a perfect comparison test but it's a realistic one.
@@toddxhiggins NO! UNLESS EVERYTHING IS UNDER IDEAL CONDITIONS AND 100% A/b TESTED, NO VALID CONCLUSIONS CAN BE DRAWN!!!1!!11KHJUIEFKLHJWEFKLJUUEFQKLJBN!!!!11!!1!!! *_MOUTH FOAM INTENSIFIES_*
@@toddxhiggins Since so many variables were changed between each tire, there is absolutely no way to even come close to a conclusion. Maybe wider is better, maybe less thickness is better, who knows? Maybe you need to increase width and diameter at the same time to have some gains? We're talking about results that show a
how many times u ganna slap the tire ???
SCOTT JOHNSON 😂
Dang I wish this was more focused on rim size instead of how tall a tire is.
If the overall diameter was the same there would be no difference but comfort and slight roll. You're asking to see a difference were differences dont exist to the human buttocks.
God dam that engine sounds beautiful 😍
Tire wall deformation is way less with the 17" too, the car as you said should be have much better handling because of that.
You could do the same on the 15 by getting tires with lees sidewall so go from 45 to 40 or 35s
@01MIKUrocks01 where are you going to find 225x35x15 tires????
So.. would 16s be the happy medium?
Low because it’s hard to find tires for 16 inch tires wheels
No it’s the most common rim size💀
@@Seeker-vo2tz for ek civics? Most common is the stock 14 or 15 inch..
@@ItsJustChase no the other dumbass said its hard to get tyres for the most common tyre bought
I like these comparisons very much!! Changing 2 parameters at the same time cannot help us understand which one had greater impact on the outcome though. Was it Width or diameter?
Both.
If having a hard time deciding 15 or 17, then go in between using 16.
RH 0703 actually that’s a bad idea
16” is kinda shitty size for performance tires
15 got tons of cheap good tires
17 got higher width and good wheel selection.
Liviu Romascanu just get some te37s and u will be fine
@@Ronin-gy5ob problem is not wheels ... its tires for good price. and no thanks :) Got 15x8 Storm S1 on my turbo miata - does right by me + 200TW tires cost 130$ a pop.
RH 0703 hahaha good idea
MotoIQ explained that Bigger diameter will lead to larger TTSA (Total Tread Surface Area). Basically if you unroll the tire, the 17inch would be longer than a 15inch. Recent Super cars went for 20in or even 21 inch for exactly that! This also helps with tire longevity as larger tread area tires can withstand more heat for longer periods than smaller TTSA tires (same car weight but distributed across more tire tread area). Inversely it would need more time to warm up. I have to mention that In japan Under Suzuki went faster when he changed from 295/30R18 to 295/35R18! Now more TTSA, width vs unsprung weight...that's the big question IMHO
There is diminishing returns there, though. My civic type R came with 20 inch wheels. I changed them to 18 inch forged wheels and 255 instead of 245, and the car has FAR more grip. Some of that is the tire change itself, it's a different tire, but the 20 inch wheels just didn't work well at all.
Wouldn’t thread length be circumference of outside diameter and have absolutely nothing to do with rim diameter. So a 25” tall tire with 15 rim has the same circumstance as 25” tall tire with 18” rim.
Cars are moving to bigger rims to fit bigger brakes.
Cars need bigger brakes because more hp needs more cooling
Cars with more cooling radiators engine, trans, diff, intercooler are heavier
Modern cars have more safety and luxuries making heavier
All that extra weight and potential speed from hp requires bigger brakes
Big brakes needs bigger rims
But you’re correct taller tire aka larger circumstance tire has more rubber
Plus larger circumstance has larger contact patch. Basically like the earth seems flat because it’s such a big circle. The bigger the tire the more the bottom seems flat and gives more contact.
@@tomjones5860 that's correct, but 25 tall 15inch combo would have a sloppy 4x4 like sidewall. Brakes is a big reason for the bigger wheels as you said
@@johnd9357 lol 20 inch on a civic, was it a spinner too? ^___^. True about the diminishing returns! I always beleive car modding is all about striking a balance. Just like a radio station (if the station its 96.5Mhz 96.4 is noise 96.6 is noise too)
You're not familiar with the 2017 Civic Type R, are you? A car they've featured on this channel numerous times? A record setting car? Yeah, it comes with 20 inch wheels factory. You tried to crack a joke and just looked ignorant instead.
16’s best suited for these Honda’s
Not enough tire options for 16s. You either go 15s or 17s.
@@stormsii2961 specially if you want track tires like semi slicks
@@samuraik933 Agreed.
Haha the ending!!! But can you guys go wider 15 inch rim and then compare.
Maybe 16's are the way to go then 🤷♂️
love that shifter setup and love this channel
so get 16 lmfao
Why does no one mention 16's? That's my fav size, right inbetween 15-17 the perfect size. Getting best of both worlds
because tire offerings suck
15's are nice but the 17's look so much better to me
same
Shouldn't the outside diameter be the same on both the 17 and the 15"? If you are running an 65 series tire on the 15" there should be an 45 series on the 17" right? Giving both tires the same outside diameter.
fatboy19831 u are correct he didn’t think of that before
But the widths are different. So no the outside diameters are probably not the same. He also gave you outside diameter numbers on the ones he used.
But he uses 225/45 fronts in his 15" setup thats why in this case those 15" are smaller and shortens gearing over 235/40 17"
225 / 45 R 15
225mm wide (sidewall, not tread)
45% as tall as it is wide (x2 for total diameter)
15" rim (381mm)
225 * .45 * 2 = 202.5mm combined cross section height
+ 381 = 583.5mm total diameter
235 / 40 R 17
235 * .4 * 2 = 188mm combined cross section height
+ 431.8 = 619.8mm total diameter
Working backwards to get the same diameter with the new width and rim size:
583.5 - 431.8 = 151.7mm combined cross section height
/ 235 / 2 = .32 section height ratio
235 / 30 R 17 would be 572.8mm tall (-10.7mm)
235 / 35 R 17 would be 596.3mm tall (+12.8mm)
I don't know if anyone makes these sizes but they are as close as you could get to the diameter he started with. 255/40R15 or 295/35R15 would also be very close to the same diameter, and much wider.
In many places, for a street-driven car, this is pretty important as changing the wheel diameter too much is illegal (because at some point the speedometer will show a lesser than actual speed). For a trackday car you would probably have a set of wheels you only use at the track though so it wouldn't really matter
Next to test is with the correct camber setup for the specific tire size, so that you use the most out of the tires. Wider tires with bigger rims (Smaller side walls) tends to love less camber. And from seeing the wear pattern on the 15" front's, I would say (without knowing the I/M/O temperatures) that it could use some more negative camber.
Also, spring rate might change since the 17" probably will have less built inn side wall deflection, but being a trackday car, maybe to much details.
16" ftw ! Best for both track and street .
On what car are u using the 16's and what tires do you have on them?
Do you do a lot of track driving?
I am curious about some experiences with 16'' tires for track use.
@@jxg1652 EG8 , i used Yokohama Advan Fleva , i do tracks sometimes , but based on my experience on track is not that bad , more to street tires 🤣
Great comparison in gear ratios for the map! However, results like time would be slightly skewed because you were comparing a used tire with a brand new one.
I'd say stick with 15" but run wider wheels/tires. Thanks to the miata market. More tire options are becoming available in 245s
Gasosphere totally
Miata op
@@Hman9876 Had 195/50-15 on my NB Miata ( Hankook 222 RS 3 ) was OK. Tried the latest NB Facelift with 16", not running straight anymore. Awful. Have now ND with 205/45 - 17, seems also be the usable limit, don`t want wider ones... Also have an 1988 RX 7 Turbo , runs best on 205/55- 16 Bridgestone RE 71 ...
That Honda sounds fucking amazing!!! I love how the Honda Haters are nowhere to be found... Have they been silenced?
😂 stfu
@@varsity2845 found the snob.
Does Pete's bro even drive that car? I always see it tuck away in the corner of the speed academy garage.
well its not exactly a daily anymore lol
The bro has taken the year off from rippin' TEC (had a baby).
Too bad if not!! I think the 17" wheel setup might just increase the wife acceptance factor. They would also increase the Civic's stealth factor since they look modern. Pete's Bro might really like blowing the doors off of small BMWs and the like!
Lots of people in comment section talk about guys not changing only 1 parameter (width or diameter). But that's what you do in reality. So thanks, that's a great video!
Exactly this is real life not a video game, I think theyre all so experienced that they missed the part you have to change the rim size they don't make a wider 15" hahaha i guess they do in video game land
Is it even possible to do a 100TW tyre setup?
Nankang AR-1 vs Toyo R888R vs Nitto NT-01 vs Maxxis RC-1?
That would be a fucking awesome test to see
15:56 had me laughing so hard I was tearing up.
What if you just had a wider 15 in tire?
10J Banded steels and watch him praise the 15's compared to the 17"
Not an Apple to Apple comparison. I would get much wider 15" rim, maybe even 14" and 245 tire. The response Diff was tire stretch config (width of rim vs tire). I would have gone with 15x9 rim with 245/50. That would give similar drive ratio, but sharper steering, quicker acceleration, better pot hole resistance,,, and all with a Cadillac like ride !! Why are people so bling bling stupid?
why are you copying and pasting the same comment on a bunch of other peoples comments?@@suesan5111
@@skinniesANDtitties cuz i dont wanna type samething over and over again? Like to get diversity of opinion, rather than just one? Besides why are you reading more than just one coment post? Isnt reading everone of my comment, and following bothering me just amount to stalking?
@@suesan5111 You're doing the same thing dummy.
You can still get wide tires with strong side walls on wide 15" wheels. Great video, but not the greatest comparison.
This is a comparison I’ve always wanted to see. Watching Honda Challenge racing from time to time I would see some of them run a 17x7 on a 225, think a lot of it had to do how they wear during the race?? But still curious which is all out faster setup.
Thanks for doing this review!
My Name I’ve wondered this to. Saves me money from trying it myself.
Apples yo definitely, seems like I’ve seen a lot of Honda guys running bigger sizes. 16x8 seems to be getting popular, just hope to see more tire selections.
It's funny, just yesterday I was watching an old video of the "seeker" fd2 type R on a staggered 295/30/18 front and 235/40/18 rear setup. The car only makes 280hp so my initial reaction was "talk about overkill." My tune definitely changed when the car went on to decimate the other vehicles it was up against by over a full second on the course. It also set times close to much, much, more powerful and equally well sorted AWD and RWD cars.
So... while I've always advocated for using "only as much tire as you need" I'm really beginning to wonder:
"When do you actually begin to reach diminishing returns on tire width/ diameter?"
After switching from 15x65x185 to 17x45x215 automatic trans, i noticed a small delay in acceleration when pressing the pedal hard. I should have replaced the tires from balloon(stock) to flat type and not the rims. Maybe it should have accelerate faster. The 17 looks nice though.
Bigger= always better, that’s why I race my civic with 24” wheels and tires
I love those stupid little songs you come up with when you are stuck behind someone. They make little to no sense but its just so enjoyable.
I have 13" wheels. It's so hard to find tires these days. My Michalins are from 2008 time to replace them.
My 1991 Honda civic
Would have been interesting to see what putting the 15" in the rear along with the 17" in the front would have done to the laptime/feel of the car.
That 3rd->4th shift is so satisfying. Perfectly timed over and over!
The tires and wheels should have been more simlar like same width, tire diameter and the type of wheels so the only difference would have been wheel diameter
Leofred I think they were trying to show if the increase in weight and overall Wheel diameter could be combated by an increase in tire width. Not so much a completely direct comparison between 15” and 17”.
The reason people go up to 17'' is to run a wider tire, so we felt it was less relevant to compare the exact same widths since in the real world people go up in diameter so they can also go to a wider tire in the process.
Speed Academy - Changing tire width, tire sidewall height, tire weight, wheel weight, wheel width, and wheel diameter all at once is lot of variables to change in unison and then draw accurate conclusions. Can you say the changes are width only? Mostly width? Tire size? Sidewall changes? Seems like it won’t really answer any questions with precision.
For me, it was the old tyre vs new. The 15s were singing.
@@wobblysauce they were both brand new for this video
You’d get the same feel from a 16” set up as the 17”
Good video! But in any case, your front 15 inch wheels are not wide enough to take full advantage of your tires. You would need an extra inch. Your front 17s would need an extra half in.
Also, the larger diameter helps longitudinal grip.
Thanks for posting your test!
Hey Marc !
Yep, fronts on the 15s need to be 9s, rear 8s... Here the fronts especially just kill the handling with that balloon fitment. Less grip, less turn-in, less feedback... less everything really. The 17s are closer to optimal hence why they're faster. I don't think they would be otherwise. But of course the more power the car has the more it can handle bigger rims without being hindered, to a point.
The btcc originally fitted bigger rims in order to fit bigger brakes it looks cool but unless you change your gearing it is not something for the street other than looks
I loved this video. Definitely informative.
IMO smaller wheels/tire combo is always better. Cheaper, lighter, better mpg, more comfortable ride, etc.
True. For a daily. They’re on a track tho.
I was talking about daily tho. However, you don't see F1 with huge wheels. The slightly faster lap time is mainly due to fatter tires, not bigger wheels. Of course you may have to go for bigger wheels for fatter tires, but that's an indirect reason since no one make wide 15 in wheels. Also I would say 1:22.5 and 1:22.0 is almost negligible. Pretty sure if he did several more times he would get variable results.
Carbrickscity I’m not disagreeing with you. And I understand that you’re talking about a daily. That’s why I mentioned it. I’m just saying that for track cars, mpg, comfort don’t really matter. And for some even price doesn’t matter. And yes. I agree with everything else about wide tyres etc2.
Well again I was mainly talking about daily, but you brought up tracking, so I responded. I was just saying in this video for his civic, 15 and 17 doesn't make a huge difference even in track time and to me it doesn't worth the time and money to switch it back and forth between road and track. And I am saying you don't see huge wheels in F1 cars, which is arguably the one top racing events. Wider tires is what makes the track time quicker, not bigger, heavier wheels.
Onizuka is agreeing with you idiot
The ending song is very accurate lol. Great info in the video though! I actually had a friend who down sized their tire based on the results they got on racing simulator, which gave them an advantage to win their national title IRL (after winning they banned the ability to change wheel/tire combos). I think a lot has to do with the track you're racing at as well.
So you need more tire for more power for grip.
Who knew, lol everybody.
If you are spinning you ain't winning.
As a follow up I’d be interested to see a 205 vs 225 on the same 15” rim.
So it’s more about width than diameter.
you were just told the more tire you put on hthe faster you can go.
You CAN NOT PUT 225 on "15" rims.
@@alhalimi1383 if its 8' u can
Traction vs weight/rolling diameter,
traction wins.
I now want to see 15" traction vs 17" traction.
Will miss the bronze of the 15's! But the 17's look good.
And youndid too much. Bad science. You shoukd have changed 1 thing. You should have compared diameters at the same width.... or different widths at the same diameter which was unecessary. Clearly wider is better
The shorter sidewall on the 17s makes it stiffer, resulting in crisper turn-in. Nice to see real experience on the hearing. Great stuff.
Nice, white 86 in the background. I used to own a K-swapped civic - wonderful engine, terrible FWD chassis, very sloppy and uninspiring driving feel due to FWD understeer. I'd take the slower 86 over these jimmy rigged K-swaps any day.
@Mr1983abraham And it takes care of the appearance too, because they're ugly as shit.
I went bigger unlike everyone else in my class SMF in autocrossing. A lot of FTD’s😉🚗🔥💨
Ugh all these comments about science and true variables, get over it and enjoy, these guys make great content
"BMW driver alert" LMFAO
Little rim = big heavy tire
Big rim= light skinny tire
If.... you go for same overall height and quality shoot for a reduced mass rim 🤔
Damn those shifts are crisp 👌🏿👌🏿👌🏿👌🏿
Sorry but i had to give you the thumbs down because of so much talking
I would rather 15 inch with 205 tyre rear and 16 inch front with 225 front tyre
I would go with 245/40R15 square setup.
The point of 17's is to fit a rim over , over sized brake calipers. That 15's can't clear.
Nothing to do with speed lol.
15s were understeer city
Your observation is awesome. Brother what kind of lip u put on your car. Let me know plzz
Very cool test, but I agree, it ended up being very dependent on the track and gearing combo.
Seriously dude you have an Turkish twin brother called yunus Emre check it out on Netflix 😎
There are many variables to why the handling changed to less understeer,
1- The Roll center changed when you installed the taller tyres
2- the camber you dialed in might better suit the 235 tyre, giving in a bigger contact patch
3- the 15" tyres were already used, compared to the 17" wich are new, and its known that a tyre gives its highest grip levels in its 1st heat cycle or first 10laps, after that the grip fall-off curve gets sharper, wich might explain the sharp terminal understeer
not very scientific. u tested tire patch not wheel sizes. u should have used 225/35/17 for a closer comparison
HA! Love the ending and the BMW driver joke.
After driving a while on my E39 on roadlegal coilovers i wonder why normal coil suspension is legal. They are much better. The range on them are made knowing the car is lower and cant do same absorbing range. If i forgetting a short high speed bump in moderate too fast for it. The car neither slams the ground or jumps. The shockers stop the car reaching down. And they have 2 different types if coil springs. So i driving quite soft in normal conditions and they other take over from there. I have with original dudpension on a frontheavy Volvo slammed so hard that it is undescribeable. BUT THAT "HEADACHE" of convinsed car should got bended . And i knew it was there but just underestimated it. And normal lowering kits slam down in situations like that. Had s ford sierra with liwering kit and that one got bended and windshield cracked over the while middle after a jump. So my conclution is that coilovers are the best bedides sir suspension. Thst would also been good combo with the dampers and where it stop before hitting tarmac. But i struggle a bit with norwegian "high roads" some times a year. (When the middle of the road reaching up between the wheels) my car isnt even so low as it can legally be. So therefor i say the road reach UP😉 so i have 2cm more i can lower it in the front. But havent done that because my next tyres in front will have lower profile:) my car is legal with different with and those dimensions. But i dont know if i can have different radius on rim and tyre on it. As for exampla 19" bak and 18" or 17" in front wheels. I have been driving with different variables of such and i dont ser what should been the problem on a rwd car. That my rear wherls was wider didnt do any bad at all. The laws in europe are more strict then Usa when it comes to some details.
Looks like this car has a desperate need for more front negative camber.
Negative camber reduces straight line grip.
I bought hypers for my car because of this video. They look great amd i cant wait to throw my proxes rr on them
I would like if you tried the 17inch in front and 15inch in the back
Thats what she said
stupid
Why is that stupid jesus?
@@bonjouravecuns different od would make the car handle really bad
@@joobaggs6886 wrong. Literally every single fwd race car runs staggered. Rule is to run as little tyre in the rear as possible.
why not compare say 15x8 to 17x8 both with the same width tire. and diameter.
so all your really comparing wheel height and tire sidewall.
16inch wheels are the best choice for na civics
I rather put on 235 15 inch wheels bbn or even 16. But if it fits the gearing on the track I'm down.
Why not meet in the middle with 16s? Curious what the outcome would be..
I had 17s on my teg before, they are way too big and heavy for the car. I wouldnt go any bigger than 16s on a civic or integra
That was all tyre width, the diameter would have been going against it, but the width compensated for it and then some. Bigger heavier wheels are always a disadvantage, tyre width is king, if you have to go upto a bigger diameter to go wider, than obviously you have to, but only do it if you have to.
15x10's on my old MX5 with 225's and it was killer.
295's on my 34GTR and it had less mid corner than the MX5.
Tyre contact patch to car weight ratio does matter.
This guy going to 19's for a 295 is pointless, you should always stay at 18", you can still get 315 semis on an 18.
I went from a 205 to a 245 in my dsm and that made an incredible difference. Going to a wider tire is my favorite "mod"
Why not stay with the 15s and go with a wider wheel+tire?
That was bad as bro . Your a good driver
Handles better with original wheel, and tire if you know and drive Honda. You know 15 is the best fit why fix something that isn't necessary.