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Here is my study regiment. I listen to the same topic from John macarthur, Voddie baucham, rc Sproul, Charles Lawson, Paul Washer, Mike Winger, and Jeff Durbin. I then do all the reading for myself and pray that I'll get the best understanding for myself. Hear the opinions of many people you trust, research for yourself and pray for true understanding. In other words never just follow one man blindly on anything. All men are fallible at some point.
You're assessment is practically a carbon copy of my gameplan...I like washer as far as his expository delivery, but he's a little frail or weepy sounding, so I cant "binge study" with him,like I do sproul. Recently I've started to listening to spurgeon on audiobooks, I drive 18, so I'm attempting to see if its possible to "0'd" on Gods word! (so far there's been no negative side effects)! Athey creek, is a really fresh expository teacher, that is a recent add on to my studies! Peace out!
@@kenstephenslivingroomlegends i do indeed...its quite phenomenal, his strong personal perseverance, and strength! I didnt say he was frail. I articulated that he was "frail SOUNDING" or "weepy SOUNDING"! Its nothing personal against pw. His theology is spot on, i cant recall anything i disagree with(as far as his teachings). Its more of a "quirk" on my end probably,...i regularly listen to expositors whose delivery isnt quite so ,shall i say , "with such a sad tone". I dont like screaming,(either) its counterproductive. R.c., john lennox, steve lawson,etc,etc,etc are who i gravitate to,in the long term. I apologize if I offended anyone....thanx for causing me to reflect and self examine! Shalom.
This was a great blessing to me. Was really sad when the conversation was over. I could’ve listened for hours. Thanks Jeff and Dr Boot for sharing your conversation. From a fellow Canadian.
So many people have no idea. They never hear any kind of preaching that has any depth. Only hear very superficial watered down God loves you preaching. I myself was caught up in that type of church. By God’s grace He has led me to solid biblical pastors and gave me the hunger and desire to seek Him diligently. So thankful for teaching like this ! 🙏🙏🙏
Thank you for speaking out about this topic. As a Pastor and biblical counselor for over 31 years, I have spoken out about this topic on numerous occasions. Having been delivered from said lifestyle, I have a unique perspective on said conversion. Let the name of Jesus be praised! I will be in prayer for the church in Canada. Such laws are not far from this country. I have been banned from Facebook for preaching the gospel to lost souls that are bound by homosexual desires. The gospel of Jesus Christ is an absolute necessity in this world today. Romans 1 rings loud and clear. God's best to you and all that preach the gospel in these perilous times.
I never thought I would be a theonomist, but Joe Boot was right- 2020 forced the church to think through these issues and our foundations. Thankful for you dear brothers for faithfully expounding truth.
I’m sorry to hear, you left the Narrow way to become a theonomist. Jesus in Matthew 28 tells us to preach the Gospel, and be concerned with Salvation of men and their eternal life. The Gospel and Jesus is our foundation, not placing the Law of Moses on Culture.Acts15 said that the Law was a heavy yoke on the Jewish people. Although the Law was good, we could not keep it.. The Law of Moses was kept perfectly by Jesus and when we become born again he gives us His perfect righteousness. The Law came through Moses, Grace and Truth through Jesus Christ John1. God richly bless you!
Jeff has a golden track record of introducing me to giants of the faith, Dr. White of course, Doug Wilson, Bahnsen, and now the Boot. Before the man even spoke I knew I was in for a treat just by Jeff’s introduction. I will now embark upon the Boot trail, which surely won’t disappoint!
Being a Canadian. I do NOT agree with what the government has passed. This goes against everything I believe as a Christian. But I believe this is all leading up to something much bigger. Jesus is coming soon. And all we can do is pray, and try and convert as many unbelievers as possible . God bless you all.
Looking forward to Dr. Boot's new book. I read his Kingdom Of God in two days! Keep spreading the Gospel. God bless you all. Pre-Ordered the book! 5-8 days 😍
Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
As always wonderful The Lord keep opening doors for His Word to be accurately and boldly proclaimed and by His Sovereign Power delivering and saving the many Always grateful for you folks. Stay strong and The Lord be with you Lead us all Holy Spirit in YOUR TRUTH
It took me a while to understand the way you all read the statement, because I read it totally different. The way I read it was “MacArthur is not advocating the theonomic notion that suggests [the rest of the statement]’’, meaning that just like your kind selves, he disagrees with that notion of theonomy and would instead advocate a theonomic notion that affirms what he considers to be more accurate. Kind of like saying, ‘’I don’t ascribe to/advocate the theological (study of the nature of God) doctrine that [insert doctrine of modalism], rather I would advocate the theological doctrine that [insert doctrine of Trinity]. Of course, I am only speculating. Only the original speaker truly know what he meant to say. Shalom.
I agree. I think we're getting hung up on word semantics. I find it hard to believe someone with any kind of basic biblical understanding would actually think "commandeering the government and forcing Christianity on everyone" was actually a theonomic or biblical notion. I don't know anything about Phil Johnson but if Jeff speaks so highly of him it seems like it would have been better to assume a poor choice in verbiage rather than spend a whole podcast dedicated to reading too much into it. I think its pretty clear what Phil Johnson likely meant and ironically its exactly what Jeff and Joe are saying. Regardless, Jeff and the rest of Apologia, thank you for all of the great content you put out. The Christmas advent series was A+ and I've spent many hours watching your sermons. Keep it up!
I think the question that arises about theonomy is what do we do when the government refuses to listen? The impression some get is that rebellion is a proper response if the government refuses to obey God. The Bible tells us to submit joyfully and endure persecution. This is the point of contention. Macarthur believes the Revolutionary War was unbiblical. Others think it was biblical. I think this is the dividing line.
This show does a great job showing what Edom and Amaleck are all about is a great funnel for people to be lead astray by drinking their wine what a great staggering wine mix they came up.
Your comment about Pastor John MacArthur finally coming around, made me laugh. Pastor MacArthur was around and standing for the Gospel, long Before any of you!!
Did you hear the comment where MacArthur said one could take the mark,and still repent,and be forgiven? If I hadn't heard it myself,I wouldn't have believed it...MacArthur has had some bad days ,just like anyone else...js.
@@stevecollins5290 you are right about bad days, everyone has them. I was surprised to hear Durbin talking about filling in his new tattoo and audio recording people he was counselling.
Another MacArthur/wingnut nut. Recording you guys is smart. Making sure snakes can't get a bite into you is necessary. When R.C. died all you people did was show yourselves
I found a podcast called "Governed by God" Eric Luppold I believe that is the spelling. He has also done a few shows directly dealing with Lex Rex. Does anyone mage Lex Rex t-shirts yet?
@@steelerhog8638, is Jeff saying John and Phil think God wants the world to be all Christian? I guess I’m not understanding what their point is? And even if they are right why is there such glee in the disagreement?
You said Christians (theonomists) are not interested in taking over the government and imposing Christianity on the U.S. So then, what are the political implications of this ethic? Thanks!
Consider this: Luke thought John the Baptist was preaching the Gospel when he confronted the rich (class of people), the tax gathers (class of people), and the soldiers (class of people). Luke's mindset has been lost. John the Baptist obviously maintained it. Luke 3:18 So with many other exhortations he preached the gospel to the people.
Please Give us more teachings on the Theonomist view in full. My family and I are in a reformed Baptist church, that teaches what Phil Johnson said. Instead God's Law is not for Pagans, it's for his people. We should learn to live a quite and peaceful life if possible. I've been taught Theonomist want to take over governments. Example, supposed Christians using the local law in the name of Christendom killed Indians, hung witches, abused women, had slave ships, ect ect, Rather than bringing them under subjection by sharing the Gospel. I'm trying to understand. Please help.
The law of the mosaic covenant is not applicable to the Church. It was applied to old testament Israel. It was a covenant made specifically with the Israelites. And other nations were not held to that covenant demands or promises. Therefore, though we can get good principles from it, we are not under that covenant, and it's laws were not given for us to be ruled under it.
@@Brandon.Germany it applies to us because it is a command continued in the davidic covenant. Which was extended to us. But the 10 commandments per-se don't apply to us. We still follow 9 of the 10 commandments. The one we don't follow is the only one that wasn't reiterated.
@@Lucas747G We don’t follow the sabbath in any sense? Is Jesus your sabbath that still “remains,” or are you disobedient like those condemned in Hebrews 4?
@@Lucas747G That's not what we're talking about. That might be what you are talking about, but it is not what Jeff, Joe, and I are talking about. We are talking about the Law of Christ, not the Old Covenant or the Mosaic law as if it is in effect on its own authority. You are operating under the error that the only things included in the Law of Christ are those things which are reiterated word for word in the pages of the New Testament books, which just so happen to include only 9 out of 10 of the decalogue. I just showed you that we obey the sabbath as it is typologically fulfilled in Hebrews 4. So why did you claim we don't follow the sabbath, without any nuance? If you admit you obey the sabbath as described in Hebrews 4, then you can also agree with me that we Christians do indeed obey every law of the Decalogue. Right?
Question: we live in a Democratic Republic which basically means ( forgive my crude definition) that as long as you don’t violate the constitutional laws, the Democratic majority gets to make laws ( through the law making bodies ). If humanist make human ( Godless ) laws via Democratic majority can theonomist make God honoring laws?
When you say we Christians abandoned the government I don't think that is strong enough. I think we unwittingly strengthen the hand of evildoers like God's people did before. We can do this; I think we have done this and God will judge it like before. Jer 23:14 "Also among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: The committing of adultery and walking in falsehood; And they strengthen the hands of evildoers, So that no one has turned back from his wickedness. All of them have become to Me like Sodom, And her inhabitants like Gomorrah. What if, like them, we are not even saved???
When you suggest that Phil maligns a position I think JM does that also. He would never talk about family like he talks about government. While people are taking John out of context I thought I would play with it a bit. I respect John and love him dearly, but on this issue with the government God created and put over me I think he errors. To see how serious this is, let's berate the institution of family like Dr. MacArthur berates the institution of government. Here are some of his quotes where I replace government with family to hear how wrong this is: • Do "we get diverted into the illusion that we can change our country by affecting changes in the [family]"? • "The reason I don't [have a family] is because I'm not willing to alienate all the [single people.] What do I gain by that because [family] isn't the issue?" • "I don't expect [family] to act in a Christian way. They have nothing to do with the church." • [Here is a bad idea:] "If we're going to reach the world we've got to have a Christian [father] a Christian [mother] ...[Here is why: advocating for family] has nothing to do with the kingdom of God. And what you do in terms of social change lobbying hard and fast [in your family] for [family integrity] and giving too much of your time to that uh has nothing to do with the kingdom of God."
Post Mill is gaining traction (again) or better stated it is in a mode of retrieval and since 2020 theonomy has also made a “comeback” or being relooked at by many. Mac (who I love) threw out some caricatures of post-mill recently as well. Wildly inaccurate. Same with Phil.
Hey I wasn’t following when you guys were mentioning the law and the gospel aren’t separate or however you were saying it could explain what you mean by that ?
I am do disappointed and angry at the same time I had to stop going to my church because of my vaccination status. Yup you heard well I live in NY. I want to leave the state but my husband doesn't even knowing we are the segregated society.
@@ApologiaStudios Is there a theonomic “notion” (not by theonomist but among others who don’t understand what is meant by theonomy) that believe theonomy is the act of forcing People into Christianity? Could this be what Phil was referring to? Because that idea is what the God haters and misinformed present in many cases.
@@ApologiaStudios thank you I also for a long time believed that Christianity is in every part of our lives including the government but no one felt the same around me...I just joined the apologia online family so Bahnsen U will help a lot in terms of theonomy
Theonomy ended JD Hall now that he is forced to reference Old Testament case laws in order to counter false social justice with any remotely coherent biblical justice. Think accusations should only be brought before a judge to cross examine on the basis of 2-3 witnesses and not mere mob justice? What you know…you’re a theonomist. There is no standard of justice aside from Old Testament law.
From your perspective how do you understand verses like these regarding the Old Covenant law of God? I’m coming from a PC/NCT viewpoint and trying to better understand your view. I respect Jeff Durbin a lot. Thanks! Romans 7:6 (ESV): “But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.” 2 Corinthians 3:5-11 (ESV): “Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.” Hebrews 7:12 (ESV): “For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.”
I think the romans passage is simply stating that we will obey the law from the inside out instead of being forces from the outside in. So God's opinion of right and wrong doesn't change. Only HOW his people are conformed to His image. God tells us in the new covenant the Law will ne written on his peoples hearts. This doesn't mean that the laws change. So our laws should reflect God's laws...only that our ability to keep the law will come from the spirit of God and work on us from the inside out.
@@anthonyburrell5761 My question for clarification here comes out of another context, but I am going to leave that out for now in just asking this: which laws are you saying have not changed? Are you saying all the Torah is applicable and in effect today? To give just one example, although circumcision is given to Abraham as a sign of the covenant, it is nonetheless commanded in the Torah for all males and also any servant who would observe Passover. Is a male follower of Christ today operating outside of God’s law in remaining in uncircumcision of the flesh if no commandment has changed? I assume you are speaking more broadly about principles being derived from the laws but either way I just wanted to get clarification here. Thank you ahead of time and I think this may help me understand better the comment you made here.
@@miketisdale7341 the laws that have "not changed" is the standards God holds all humanity to and has always held humanity to. This is based on God's on moral character that cannot change. This cannot change, but Christ's atonement allows the faithful to access that standard, thus doing what the Law was powerless to do. Christ also demolished the division between jew and gentile by fulfilling all the types and shadows of the mosaic law. He grafts us believers into Israel by allowing us to not only fulfill God's moral standards (God's moral law thanks to Christ), but also all those walls of separation that God had erected around Israel to keep them holy are also fulfilled in Christ Circumcision = Circumcision of the heart by Christ. Sabbath = Sabbath rest in christ. Purity Laws = separation from the world system. Etc.... So God's moral standards have never changed. Christ fulfills for us. The ceremonies that kept Israel separate are transformed in Christ as all mankind are invited to participate. That's the way I see it anyway.
@@anthonyburrell5761 I whole heartedly agree and thank you very much for clarifying what you meant. The reason I had to ask is I have had different dealings with HRM people and so when I see a comment that God‘s law has not changed or that his laws do not change, red flags go off as they really do you mean that Christians should be following the Mosaic law (circumcision, dietary, ceremonial, clothing, etc). Some go as far to say that those laws are eternal and have been kept and passed down since Adam and Eve.
The bible is very clear to make disciples of all nations . Jesus Himself declared this world is not of His Kingdom. What we need to do is rebuke and instruct and correct endeavouring to brings others to a saving faith in Christ. During COVID-19 the church should have spoken up against social distancing and not going to work etc . Rodney Howard-Browne a false preacher who calls himself the Holy Ghost bartender stood up against the draconian laws of Florida thus forcing Ron DeSantis to open up the state of Florida.
Set your mind on Jesus Christ with a repentant heart and leave Him, to decide what you'll leave behind. The reason I say this, is because it is by grace through faith, that we are saved and that is not of ourself. So it isn't by works or anything we do, or don't do, but by faith alone, having believed that Jesus died for our sins once for all, and that God raised Him from the dead. The bible says we are to believe this in our heart and confess it with our mouth, unto salvation. So, does doing this, make it a works based salvation? Not at all, it is an act of obedience to God, the Holy Spirit, Whom, has indwelt the believer, causing regeneration of our spirit that was dead in Adam. Just like He did in the one thief on the cross next to Jesus. We have been given a new spirit and a new heart that is not hardened toward righteousness and a renewing of the mind, which completely changes our volition. This is why a sinner would be willing to walk away from sin and follow Jesus as Lord of their life. Just like you are thinking, you may wanna do. Judging by the comments, it sounds to me as though you are doing exactly what you said in your heart, you would be willing to do. The Lord is the One that will see the work He has begun in you, through unto completion. Which of course, will be when we meet Him face to face in our new glorified digs. Our new glorified body, I was just trying to sound cool by saying, "digs". Lol.. I purposely said it that way, to show you that we Christians are just like everyone else, in that we like to have fun, still wanna come across as cool, unique and individual or whatever our thing is, just not prideful or immoral, or anything sinful. We live a new more abundant life inside these vessels, that is pleasing to God and brings glory to Him. This is the fruit of the Spirit. His Spirit, the Paraclete, Who is working in us, doing all of the heavy lifting and comforting us, and rooting us onward to the finish line, by encouraging and enabling us. He is also sanctifying us, which of course is setting us apart from the world around us. Making us a peculiar people, something like God's chosen people, the Jews. Only for them it was in the physical sense as they were commanded to live in a way that was so different than anyone else, that they remained separate from everyone, thus ensuring a pure bloodline to the throne of David, and our Lord and King, the long awaited Messiah or Christ Jesus, Who will reign on David's throne forever. But, in us the elect, it is spiritual, and yes we too, are a peculiar people, in the sense that we are merely sojournors in a land that is not our own, as we are just passing through, to reach the destination that God has placed the desire for, in our hearts. Here is the tough part, and I can tell you this without concern of you turning and running the other way, because if indeed you are elect, then you, like myself and all of the brethren will be cast, in the furnace of affliction. Notice that I didn't say "cast into", like Daniel's three buddies, who were cast into a furnace in an effort to destroy them. Rather, I said "cast in" and the reason for this, is because for us, it is not for punishment and destruction, but discipline and admonishment and through affliction, we are being perfected in Christ or you could say, being made into the image or likeness of Christ. This is achieved by our suffering, as He did. This I believe is only one of the reasons behind what Paul meant when he said, to take up our cross and follow Him, and also, work out your salvation with fear an trembling. When we are following Christ, we are the light of Christ, to the world around us. I am not saying we are Christ. But, when people see and hear a true blue born of God Christian soldier, there is such a vast difference between them and us, that those that remain rebellious against the Lord become uncomfortable because they love darkness and all the sinfulness that goes with it. They hate the light and shun it because it reveals the truth about their wickedness and the dark sinful condition of their heart, We need to be on our guard from attacks by the evil one, who works his craft in and through those that remain spiritually dead in Adam, as they are lost and deceived. We will be persecuted for Christ's name sake. That is one of the marks of a godly man. Just look at all that our Lord allowed, for Paul to suffer for Christ's name sake. Also let us not forget that there is a spiritual battle for the mind, taking place, and the reading of the word and prayer are where we will find some of our best defense against any accusations from the evil one, not to mention, both the word and prayer can be a quiet place of refuge, to shelter us from any of the storms we must go through in our trials. I am confident, that the Lord has already begun a great work in you. Tonight when I head down to the lake, to spend time with the Lord. I will include all of you in my prayer. Anyhow brothers and sisters, I love you, as do all of the brethren, as does our gracious Lord
This is why I think we as a whole church need to start denouncing Premil as heresy. People say eschatology isn’t a primary issue, but it kind of is- maybe not 1a but 1b. Jesus came to proclaim the gospel of the kingdom. We have seen how destructive the premil worldview is and how thoroughly contradictory it is to scripture. We don’t tolerate this with the gospel of salvation so we shouldn’t tolerate it with the gospel of the kingdom. I am not condemning any premil person as a heretic because i understand the how the tradition took root here. But its time we stop pretending like its a valid position.
@@stephanieaveau5491 ua-cam.com/video/NtLOYPeYw-Y/v-deo.html Our creator doesn't care about you. Only 12 tribes of Israel. Wake up. No one's saving you.
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Here is my study regiment. I listen to the same topic from John macarthur, Voddie baucham, rc Sproul, Charles Lawson, Paul Washer, Mike Winger, and Jeff Durbin. I then do all the reading for myself and pray that I'll get the best understanding for myself. Hear the opinions of many people you trust, research for yourself and pray for true understanding.
In other words never just follow one man blindly on anything. All men are fallible at some point.
I love this list. And I love that you included Mike Winger.
You're assessment is practically a carbon copy of my gameplan...I like washer as far as his expository delivery, but he's a little frail or weepy sounding, so I cant "binge study" with him,like I do sproul. Recently I've started to listening to spurgeon on audiobooks, I drive 18, so I'm attempting to see if its possible to "0'd" on Gods word! (so far there's been no negative side effects)! Athey creek, is a really fresh expository teacher, that is a recent add on to my studies! Peace out!
And that’s how you do it it’s called discernment God bless!
@@stevecollins5290 Paul Washer "frail"? Do you know his story?
@@kenstephenslivingroomlegends i do indeed...its quite phenomenal, his strong personal perseverance, and strength! I didnt say he was frail. I articulated that he was "frail SOUNDING" or "weepy SOUNDING"! Its nothing personal against pw. His theology is spot on, i cant recall anything i disagree with(as far as his teachings). Its more of a "quirk" on my end probably,...i regularly listen to expositors whose delivery isnt quite so ,shall i say , "with such a sad tone". I dont like screaming,(either) its counterproductive. R.c., john lennox, steve lawson,etc,etc,etc are who i gravitate to,in the long term. I apologize if I offended anyone....thanx for causing me to reflect and self examine! Shalom.
This was a great blessing to me. Was really sad when the conversation was over. I could’ve listened for hours. Thanks Jeff and Dr Boot for sharing your conversation. From a fellow Canadian.
So many people have no idea. They never hear any kind of preaching that has any depth. Only hear very superficial watered down God loves you preaching. I myself was caught up in that type of church. By God’s grace He has led me to solid biblical pastors and gave me the hunger and desire to seek Him diligently. So thankful for teaching like this ! 🙏🙏🙏
Thank you for speaking out about this topic. As a Pastor and biblical counselor for over 31 years, I have spoken out about this topic on numerous occasions. Having been delivered from said lifestyle, I have a unique perspective on said conversion. Let the name of Jesus be praised!
I will be in prayer for the church in Canada. Such laws are not far from this country. I have been banned from Facebook for preaching the gospel to lost souls that are bound by homosexual desires. The gospel of Jesus Christ is an absolute necessity in this world today. Romans 1 rings loud and clear. God's best to you and all that preach the gospel in these perilous times.
I never thought I would be a theonomist, but Joe Boot was right- 2020 forced the church to think through these issues and our foundations. Thankful for you dear brothers for faithfully expounding truth.
I’m sorry to hear, you left the Narrow way to become a theonomist. Jesus in Matthew 28 tells us to preach the Gospel, and be concerned with Salvation of men and their eternal life. The Gospel and Jesus is our foundation, not placing the Law of Moses on Culture.Acts15 said that the Law was a heavy yoke on the Jewish people. Although the Law was good, we could not keep it.. The Law of Moses was kept perfectly by Jesus and when we become born again he gives us His perfect righteousness. The Law came through Moses, Grace and Truth through Jesus Christ John1. God richly bless you!
@@theresaread72 this is ignorant
Jeff has a golden track record of introducing me to giants of the faith, Dr. White of course, Doug Wilson, Bahnsen, and now the Boot. Before the man even spoke I knew I was in for a treat just by Jeff’s introduction. I will now embark upon the Boot trail, which surely won’t disappoint!
Same, I learn a lot from Jeff. God bless!
Bahnsen U is fantastic! I listen daily
Being a Canadian. I do NOT agree with what the government has passed. This goes against everything I believe as a Christian. But I believe this is all leading up to something much bigger. Jesus is coming soon. And all we can do is pray, and try and convert as many unbelievers as possible . God bless you all.
Thank you for this video. Praying for our Canadian brothers and sisters.
I have to agree, that monologue around 34 minutes was beautiful.
Looking forward to Dr. Boot's new book. I read his Kingdom Of God in two days! Keep spreading the Gospel. God bless you all. Pre-Ordered the book! 5-8 days 😍
You read Kingdom of God in 2 days? I bench a thousand pounds!
@@habsfan170 It was a great read. Enjoyed it very much so I was able to pay attention and take it all in. Go back to it all the time too 🙂✌️❤️
Mark 12:30
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
As always wonderful
The Lord keep opening doors for His Word to be accurately and boldly proclaimed and by His Sovereign Power delivering and saving the many
Always grateful for you folks.
Stay strong and The Lord be with you
Lead us all Holy Spirit in YOUR TRUTH
Excellent. Love Dr Boot.
Awesome discussion on Gods laws and mans laws. Excellent!
It took me a while to understand the way you all read the statement, because I read it totally different. The way I read it was “MacArthur is not advocating the theonomic notion that suggests [the rest of the statement]’’, meaning that just like your kind selves, he disagrees with that notion of theonomy and would instead advocate a theonomic notion that affirms what he considers to be more accurate. Kind of like saying, ‘’I don’t ascribe to/advocate the theological (study of the nature of God) doctrine that [insert doctrine of modalism], rather I would advocate the theological doctrine that [insert doctrine of Trinity]. Of course, I am only speculating. Only the original speaker truly know what he meant to say.
Shalom.
I agree. I think we're getting hung up on word semantics. I find it hard to believe someone with any kind of basic biblical understanding would actually think "commandeering the government and forcing Christianity on everyone" was actually a theonomic or biblical notion. I don't know anything about Phil Johnson but if Jeff speaks so highly of him it seems like it would have been better to assume a poor choice in verbiage rather than spend a whole podcast dedicated to reading too much into it. I think its pretty clear what Phil Johnson likely meant and ironically its exactly what Jeff and Joe are saying. Regardless, Jeff and the rest of Apologia, thank you for all of the great content you put out. The Christmas advent series was A+ and I've spent many hours watching your sermons. Keep it up!
I'm in Louisiana. Let's geaux!
The eyes in the Cromwell painting shifted to the left and the right. Or, was that my imagination. LOL. Great setting and great monologue there.
Been reading Mission of God! Sooo good!
Amen this was a great discussion.
Great conversation and overall insight.
Australia passed those kind of laws about conversion therapy etc. last year.
I think the question that arises about theonomy is what do we do when the government refuses to listen? The impression some get is that rebellion is a proper response if the government refuses to obey God. The Bible tells us to submit joyfully and endure persecution. This is the point of contention. Macarthur believes the Revolutionary War was unbiblical. Others think it was biblical. I think this is the dividing line.
I’ve listened to MacAuthur, I was under the impression he thought the law was over. He is not reformed, he is “Calvinistic”.
This show does a great job showing what Edom and Amaleck are all about is a great funnel for people to be lead astray by drinking their wine what a great staggering wine mix they came up.
When will you be in Louisiana in March? I will be there 3/17-3/19 and would love to join y'all!
Your comment about Pastor John MacArthur finally coming around, made me laugh. Pastor MacArthur was around and standing for the Gospel, long Before any of you!!
Did you hear the comment where MacArthur said one could take the mark,and still repent,and be forgiven? If I hadn't heard it myself,I wouldn't have believed it...MacArthur has had some bad days ,just like anyone else...js.
@@stevecollins5290 you are right about bad days, everyone has them. I was surprised to hear Durbin talking about filling in his new tattoo and audio recording people he was counselling.
Another MacArthur/wingnut nut. Recording you guys is smart. Making sure snakes can't get a bite into you is necessary.
When R.C. died all you people did was show yourselves
@@robertknight3354 w0w!... you sure told those guys!...
I found a podcast called "Governed by God" Eric Luppold I believe that is the spelling. He has also done a few shows directly dealing with Lex Rex. Does anyone mage Lex Rex t-shirts yet?
That guy's set is crazy chic.
Please consider doing shows on David Nathan's eschatology 2017 videos.
Listen to more from Apologia Studios by subscribing to Apologia All Access. Click here for more info.
ean.link/bahnsenu
In plain simple words what is it, that Jeff and others disagree with what John MacArthur and Phil Johnson said?
That theonomy is wanting a government that forces everyone into converting to Christianity
@@steelerhog8638, is Jeff saying John and Phil think God wants the world to be all Christian? I guess I’m not understanding what their point is? And even if they are right why is there such glee in the disagreement?
More info on when y’all come to SC
Get Mission of God. Get two.
I’ve had mission of god for quite some time now just haven’t read it
Could you explain the relationship of law and gospel and what you guys meant by that ?
You said Christians (theonomists) are not interested in taking over the government and imposing Christianity on the U.S. So then, what are the political implications of this ethic?
Thanks!
Awsome
Consider this: Luke thought John the Baptist was preaching the Gospel when he confronted the rich (class of people), the tax gathers (class of people), and the soldiers (class of people). Luke's mindset has been lost. John the Baptist obviously maintained it.
Luke 3:18 So with many other exhortations he preached the gospel to the people.
Please Give us more teachings on the Theonomist view in full. My family and I are in a reformed Baptist church, that teaches what Phil Johnson said. Instead God's Law is not for Pagans, it's for his people. We should learn to live a quite and peaceful life if possible. I've been taught Theonomist want to take over governments. Example, supposed Christians using the local law in the name of Christendom killed Indians, hung witches, abused women, had slave ships, ect ect, Rather than bringing them under subjection by sharing the Gospel. I'm trying to understand. Please help.
The law of the mosaic covenant is not applicable to the Church. It was applied to old testament Israel. It was a covenant made specifically with the Israelites. And other nations were not held to that covenant demands or promises.
Therefore, though we can get good principles from it, we are not under that covenant, and it's laws were not given for us to be ruled under it.
"Do not murder" doesn't apply to us?
@@Brandon.Germany it applies to us because it is a command continued in the davidic covenant. Which was extended to us.
But the 10 commandments per-se don't apply to us. We still follow 9 of the 10 commandments. The one we don't follow is the only one that wasn't reiterated.
@@Lucas747G
We don’t follow the sabbath in any sense? Is Jesus your sabbath that still “remains,” or are you disobedient like those condemned in Hebrews 4?
@@IAmisMaster the Sabbath in the sense dictated in the mosaic covenant. That's what we're talking about.
@@Lucas747G That's not what we're talking about. That might be what you are talking about, but it is not what Jeff, Joe, and I are talking about. We are talking about the Law of Christ, not the Old Covenant or the Mosaic law as if it is in effect on its own authority.
You are operating under the error that the only things included in the Law of Christ are those things which are reiterated word for word in the pages of the New Testament books, which just so happen to include only 9 out of 10 of the decalogue. I just showed you that we obey the sabbath as it is typologically fulfilled in Hebrews 4. So why did you claim we don't follow the sabbath, without any nuance? If you admit you obey the sabbath as described in Hebrews 4, then you can also agree with me that we Christians do indeed obey every law of the Decalogue. Right?
Jesus fulfilled an unattainable law. Do we still sacrifice?
Any updates on reformcon?
Question: we live in a Democratic Republic which basically means ( forgive my crude definition) that as long as you don’t violate the constitutional laws, the Democratic majority gets to make laws ( through the law making bodies ). If humanist make human ( Godless ) laws via Democratic majority can theonomist make God honoring laws?
Is there a ReformCon this year?
In May
Phil is a premillennialist. Makes a difference
When you say we Christians abandoned the government I don't think that is strong enough. I think we unwittingly strengthen the hand of evildoers like God's people did before. We can do this; I think we have done this and God will judge it like before.
Jer 23:14 "Also among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: The committing of adultery and walking in falsehood; And they strengthen the hands of evildoers, So that no one has turned back from his wickedness. All of them have become to Me like Sodom, And her inhabitants like Gomorrah.
What if, like them, we are not even saved???
Hi
When you suggest that Phil maligns a position I think JM does that also. He would never talk about family like he talks about government. While people are taking John out of context I thought I would play with it a bit. I respect John and love him dearly, but on this issue with the government God created and put over me I think he errors.
To see how serious this is, let's berate the institution of family like Dr. MacArthur berates the institution of government. Here are some of his quotes where I replace government with family to hear how wrong this is:
• Do "we get diverted into the illusion that we can change our country by affecting changes in the [family]"?
• "The reason I don't [have a family] is because I'm not willing to alienate all the [single people.] What do I gain by that because [family] isn't the issue?"
• "I don't expect [family] to act in a Christian way. They have nothing to do with the church."
• [Here is a bad idea:] "If we're going to reach the world we've got to have a Christian [father] a Christian [mother] ...[Here is why: advocating for family] has nothing to do with the kingdom of God. And what you do in terms of social change lobbying hard and fast [in your family] for [family integrity] and giving too much of your time to that uh has nothing to do with the kingdom of God."
Post Mill is gaining traction (again) or better stated it is in a mode of retrieval and since 2020 theonomy has also made a “comeback” or being relooked at by
many. Mac (who I love) threw out some caricatures of post-mill recently as well. Wildly inaccurate. Same with Phil.
Hey I wasn’t following when you guys were mentioning the law and the gospel aren’t separate or however you were saying it could explain what you mean by that ?
I am do disappointed and angry at the same time I had to stop going to my church because of my vaccination status. Yup you heard well I live in NY. I want to leave the state but my husband doesn't even knowing we are the segregated society.
The key word was commandeer, to force govt. Do you really believe Phil Johnson doesnt understand the Great commission?
No.
However, that was a misrepresentation. Gross misrepresentation of Theonomy.
@@ApologiaStudios Is there a theonomic “notion” (not by theonomist but among others who don’t understand what is meant by theonomy) that believe theonomy is the act of forcing People into Christianity? Could this be what Phil was referring to? Because that idea is what the God haters and misinformed present in many cases.
I want to understand theonomy more, any book recommendation or videos?
By This Standard by Greg Bahnsen is the best introductory book.
Theonomy in Christian Ethics by Bahnsen is also great.
@@ApologiaStudios thank you I also for a long time believed that Christianity is in every part of our lives including the government but no one felt the same around me...I just joined the apologia online family so Bahnsen U will help a lot in terms of theonomy
JD Hall ended theonomy in 3 hrs when he debated McDurmon
Theonomy ended JD Hall now that he is forced to reference Old Testament case laws in order to counter false social justice with any remotely coherent biblical justice. Think accusations should only be brought before a judge to cross examine on the basis of 2-3 witnesses and not mere mob justice? What you know…you’re a theonomist. There is no standard of justice aside from Old Testament law.
From your perspective how do you understand verses like these regarding the Old Covenant law of God? I’m coming from a PC/NCT viewpoint and trying to better understand your view. I respect Jeff Durbin a lot. Thanks!
Romans 7:6 (ESV): “But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.”
2 Corinthians 3:5-11 (ESV): “Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.”
Hebrews 7:12 (ESV): “For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.”
Read Hebrews 7:11, to address one of these. It is specifically addressing the laws of the Levitical priesthood.
I think the romans passage is simply stating that we will obey the law from the inside out instead of being forces from the outside in.
So God's opinion of right and wrong doesn't change. Only HOW his people are conformed to His image.
God tells us in the new covenant the Law will ne written on his peoples hearts. This doesn't mean that the laws change.
So our laws should reflect God's laws...only that our ability to keep the law will come from the spirit of God and work on us from the inside out.
@@anthonyburrell5761 My question for clarification here comes out of another context, but I am going to leave that out for now in just asking this: which laws are you saying have not changed? Are you saying all the Torah is applicable and in effect today? To give just one example, although circumcision is given to Abraham as a sign of the covenant, it is nonetheless commanded in the Torah for all males and also any servant who would observe Passover. Is a male follower of Christ today operating outside of God’s law in remaining in uncircumcision of the flesh if no commandment has changed? I assume you are speaking more broadly about principles being derived from the laws but either way I just wanted to get clarification here. Thank you ahead of time and I think this may help me understand better the comment you made here.
@@miketisdale7341 the laws that have "not changed" is the standards God holds all humanity to and has always held humanity to. This is based on God's on moral character that cannot change.
This cannot change, but Christ's atonement allows the faithful to access that standard, thus doing what the Law was powerless to do.
Christ also demolished the division between jew and gentile by fulfilling all the types and shadows of the mosaic law. He grafts us believers into Israel by allowing us to not only fulfill God's moral standards (God's moral law thanks to Christ), but also all those walls of separation that God had erected around Israel to keep them holy are also fulfilled in Christ
Circumcision = Circumcision of the heart by Christ.
Sabbath = Sabbath rest in christ.
Purity Laws = separation from the world system.
Etc....
So God's moral standards have never changed. Christ fulfills for us.
The ceremonies that kept Israel separate are transformed in Christ as all mankind are invited to participate.
That's the way I see it anyway.
@@anthonyburrell5761 I whole heartedly agree and thank you very much for clarifying what you meant. The reason I had to ask is I have had different dealings with HRM people and so when I see a comment that God‘s law has not changed or that his laws do not change, red flags go off as they really do you mean that Christians should be following the Mosaic law (circumcision, dietary, ceremonial, clothing, etc). Some go as far to say that those laws are eternal and have been kept and passed down since Adam and Eve.
The bible is very clear to make disciples of all nations . Jesus Himself declared this world is not of His Kingdom. What we need to do is rebuke and instruct and correct endeavouring to brings others to a saving faith in Christ. During COVID-19 the church should have spoken up against social distancing and not going to work etc . Rodney Howard-Browne a false preacher who calls himself the Holy Ghost bartender stood up against the draconian laws of Florida thus forcing Ron DeSantis to open up the state of Florida.
👋
Set your mind on Jesus Christ with a repentant heart and leave Him, to decide what you'll leave behind.
The reason I say this, is because it is by grace through faith, that we are saved and that is not of ourself. So it isn't by works or anything we do, or don't do, but by faith alone, having believed that Jesus died for our sins once for all, and that God raised Him from the dead.
The bible says we are to believe this in our heart and confess it with our mouth, unto salvation.
So, does doing this, make it a works based salvation? Not at all, it is an act of obedience to God, the Holy Spirit, Whom, has indwelt the believer, causing regeneration of our spirit that was dead in Adam. Just like He did in the one thief on the cross next to Jesus.
We have been given a new spirit and a new heart that is not hardened toward righteousness and a renewing of the mind, which completely changes our volition. This is why a sinner would be willing to walk away from sin and follow Jesus as Lord of their life. Just like you are thinking, you may wanna do.
Judging by the comments, it sounds to me as though you are doing exactly what you said in your heart, you would be willing to do. The Lord is the One that will see the work He has begun in you, through unto completion. Which of course, will be when we meet Him face to face in our new glorified digs. Our new glorified body, I was just trying to sound cool by saying, "digs". Lol..
I purposely said it that way, to show you that we Christians are just like everyone else, in that we like to have fun, still wanna come across as cool, unique and individual or whatever our thing is, just not prideful or immoral, or anything sinful.
We live a new more abundant life inside these vessels, that is pleasing to God and brings glory to Him. This is the fruit of the Spirit. His Spirit, the Paraclete, Who is working in us, doing all of the heavy lifting and comforting us, and rooting us onward to the finish line, by encouraging and enabling us. He is also sanctifying us, which of course is setting us apart from the world around us. Making us a peculiar people, something like God's chosen people, the Jews. Only for them it was in the physical sense as they were commanded to live in a way that was so different than anyone else, that they remained separate from everyone, thus ensuring a pure bloodline to the throne of David, and our Lord and King, the long awaited Messiah or Christ Jesus, Who will reign on David's throne forever.
But, in us the elect, it is spiritual, and yes we too, are a peculiar people, in the sense that we are merely sojournors in a land that is not our own, as we are just passing through, to reach the destination that God has placed the desire for, in our hearts.
Here is the tough part, and I can tell you this without concern of you turning and running the other way, because if indeed you are elect, then you, like myself and all of the brethren will be cast, in the furnace of affliction. Notice that I didn't say "cast into", like Daniel's three buddies, who were cast into a furnace in an effort to destroy them. Rather, I said "cast in" and the reason for this, is because for us, it is not for punishment and destruction, but discipline and admonishment and through affliction, we are being perfected in Christ or you could say, being made into the image or likeness of Christ. This is achieved by our suffering, as He did. This I believe is only one of the reasons behind what Paul meant when he said, to take up our cross and follow Him, and also, work out your salvation with fear an trembling.
When we are following Christ, we are the light of Christ, to the world around us. I am not saying we are Christ. But, when people see and hear a true blue born of God Christian soldier, there is such a vast difference between them and us, that those that remain rebellious against the Lord become uncomfortable because they love darkness and all the sinfulness that goes with it. They hate the light and shun it because it reveals the truth about their wickedness and the dark sinful condition of their heart,
We need to be on our guard from attacks by the evil one, who works his craft in and through those that remain spiritually dead in Adam, as they are lost and deceived. We will be persecuted for Christ's name sake. That is one of the marks of a godly man. Just look at all that our Lord allowed, for Paul to suffer for Christ's name sake. Also let us not forget that there is a spiritual battle for the mind, taking place, and the reading of the word and prayer are where we will find some of our best defense against any accusations from the evil one, not to mention, both the word and prayer can be a quiet place of refuge, to shelter us from any of the storms we must go through in our trials.
I am confident, that the Lord has already begun a great work in you. Tonight when I head down to the lake, to spend time with the Lord. I will include all of you in my prayer.
Anyhow brothers and sisters, I love you, as do all of the brethren, as does our gracious Lord
Awesome Dale. Ty.
@@mikevarozza403 Bless you Mike.
Boom
Looks like we are going to have to build a wall on the Canadian border!! 😂 😂
Shoot my wife and I travel an hr to go to our church every Lord's Day! Worth it!
Hi...who here is dead to the law? Anyone?
Wait until you discover that Hebrew Cosmology is true as is ALL of scripture.
This is why I think we as a whole church need to start denouncing Premil as heresy. People say eschatology isn’t a primary issue, but it kind of is- maybe not 1a but 1b. Jesus came to proclaim the gospel of the kingdom. We have seen how destructive the premil worldview is and how thoroughly contradictory it is to scripture. We don’t tolerate this with the gospel of salvation so we shouldn’t tolerate it with the gospel of the kingdom.
I am not condemning any premil person as a heretic because i understand the how the tradition took root here. But its time we stop pretending like its a valid position.
Trans actress Freemason Jeff Durbin.
You good bro? Cause nothing you just said makes sense. Lol
@@stephanieaveau5491 ua-cam.com/video/NtLOYPeYw-Y/v-deo.html
Our creator doesn't care about you. Only 12 tribes of Israel. Wake up. No one's saving you.
Ahhhh ok now I understand , may The Holy Spirit open your eyes and soften your heart to hear the Gospel! Believing that for you!
@@stephanieaveau5491 Good girl
@@riffsidechaos No one cares you don't believe in God. But, you are still under His judgment nonetheless. So stop being a silly troll and repent.
Biblical Libertarians!! Love it.