Adventism and the Trinity Part 2 | Pastor Ron Kelly | Repost from February 2019
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- Опубліковано 19 лип 2024
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God and Jesus alone are to be exalted.
Can we say that we are in the shaking. Those that will not hold to what the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy says is true will be shaken out. Those that will be left will be filled with the Holy Spirit and the latter rain will fall. We are so close to Christ’s second coming we all would be running from our worldly thing just like Lot and his wife did. I pray we might not be so attached to our things that we might loose heaven. Stand firm and fight a good fight of faith🙏🏻♥️
I'm thinking this sudden controversy about the Holy Spirit is just another iteration of a "divide and conquer" tactic. In my memory there was the book of Daniel as interpreted by an Australian pastor, then the ordination of women and now the nature of the Godhead.
THE SECOND COMMANDMENT, THE TRINITY, AND THE OMNIPRESENCE OF GOD
I always wondered what was so significant about the second Commandment that Rome found it necessary to remove it altogether from the Ten Commandments. But it appears that there is a fundamental truth in that Commandment concerning where God's presence is that is intended to protect us from all forms of false worship.
The second Commandment tells us that we should not bow down before any image. This implies that God is not in any image. Which means that God is not everywhere. The Bible tells us that God is in heaven; and heaven is not everywhere. Heaven is above the earth and that is where we should direct our worship to God, where He is. He knows everything that happens everywhere and can go wherever He pleases but His abode is in heaven where Jesus, our High Priest and intercessor, is presenting our cases to Him. - "Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens" (Heb. 8:1).
Furthermore, both the prophets Daniel and John saw God in heaven with the angels gathered around His throne and Jesus being separate and distinct (Dan. 7 and Rev. 4, 5). Daniel said "the Ancient of days did sit" (Dan. 7:9) and "one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days" (Dan. 7:13). John said "one sat on the throne" (Rev. 4:2) who was worshipped as the Creator to whom it was said "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created" (Rev. 4:11), with Jesus appearing before Him to receive a book and power and authority, as the Lamb who was slain, while the angels sang, "Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." (Rev. 5:13).
God is not everywhere all at once like a vapour while part of Him or an image sits on the throne representing Him. God Himself sits, of whom man was made in His image after His likeness, "made after the similitude of God" (James 3:9).
Logically, if God is everywhere, He can be worshipped wherever He is. One could then bow down and worship before a stone, a tree, a person or any object, not as worshipping the object but as worshipping God, since God is in it. That would open the door for the worship of false Gods as no one would be able to tell the difference whether you are worshipping the true God or not.
It would not be consistent to forbid worshipping before an object if God is in the object and one is worshipping, not the object, but God who is in the object. This is evident in the experience of the children of Israel in the wilderness. God appeared to them in a cloud and they were not forbidden to bow before Him in the cloud - "And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud" (Ex. 19:9), "And all the people saw the cloudy pillar stand at the tabernacle door: and all the people rose up and worshipped, every man in his tent door" (Ex. 33:10). If God is not in a particular place, say in an image, it means that there is at least one place where He is not. He cannot be everywhere and not everywhere at the same time.
The idea that the Holy Spirit is God present everywhere was precisely the argument that Dr. John Harvey Kellogg put forward to justify his pantheistic teachings. And Ellen White told him that he was wrong. Initially, he said that God was in everything. And when God instructed Ellen White to oppose it, he modified it by saying that at the time of his first presentation of the matter in the book "The Living Temple" he did not believe in the Trinity. Because of that, he said he had not given a clear explanation of the matter. He went on to explain that he had now come to believe in the Trinity and could better explain his idea. The new explanation was that it was not God the Father, but God the Holy Ghost who was everywhere and in everything. Ellen White told him that he was wrong. And we can see why. If God the Holy Spirit is everywhere and can be worshipped, it is a doorway to replace worshipping God and Christ in heaven entirely.
Another modified version of Kellogg's idea is that the Holy Spirit is really Christ himself or both God and Christ in an omnipresent form. This is also not correct as it places God and Christ on earth rather than in heaven.
The pioneers of Seventh-day Adventism stated in their Fundamental Principles of faith published in the 1889 Yearbook that God was everywhere present by His representative, the Holy Spirit. At face value, this would suggest that this representative is omnipresent. But it is perhaps more consistent with scripture to say that He is everywhere present by His representatives the holy spirits. Holy spirits are ministering spirits sent from heaven - "And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man." (John1:51). "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?" (Heb. 1:14).
This is consistent with the Hebrew word ruach and the Greek word pneuma that are translated in the Bible as spirit. These words are also translated spirits, thus indicating that the Holy Spirit need not be seen as one individual being who is omnipresent but many spirit beings representing God everywhere.
From this perspective, there is no denying that the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, sent at Pentecost is a person - only not a God-being to be worshipped. Like the Angel of Revelation 18 who comes down from heaven with the latter rain - a similar occurrence as that which took place at Pentecost except more extensive - the Comforter would be seen as a messenger sent by Christ from heaven, as stated repeatedly in John 14-16. Ellen G. White describing the latter rain speaks of a mighty angel from heaven being sent to do this work and further said, "Angels were sent to aid the mighty angel from heaven" (Ellen. G. White, Story of Redemption, p. 399).
It should be noted that Jesus's warning against blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is not implying that the Holy Spirit is more to be revered than Jesus Himself. Jesus went back to heaven and promises to return to this earth to take us to His Father's house in heaven. He left the Holy Spirit to guide us until He returns. If we reject that guidance by blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, there will be nobody to guide us. The situation is like what God told the children of Israel in the wilderness - "Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him." (Ex. 23:20, 21). It is simply warning us not to reject the Holy Spirit's guidance. It is not forbidding us seeking to understand who the Holy Spirit is or what the Holy Spirit does.
So, there we have it. The church has now fully accepted Kellogg's idea. Ellen White said that the initial presentation by Kellogg was the alpha of deadly heresies. She said that the omega would follow shortly afterwards and would be accepted. And it did follow shortly afterwards in Kellogg's modified version, based on his acceptance of the Trinity. And the church has now fully accepted it - that God (the Holy Spirit) is everywhere and should be worshipped. So, based on current practice, Jesus is worshipped, the Holy Spirit is worshipped but the One true God is almost entirely ignored. Jesus, praying to His Father, made it clear who the "only true God" is and identified Himself as the one sent by God - "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3).
Nowhere in the Bible is worship given to anyone else except the one seated on the throne who is referred to as "LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come" (Rev.4:8) and to Christ, the Lamb, as it will be in the new earth - "And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it." (Rev. 21:22). God is the Father of Christ. Accordingly, Christ, the Lamb is seen with "an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads" (Rev. 14:1). It is the name of the Lamb's Father that will be written in their foreheads.
Whatever one's concept of the Godhead, the term "godhead" is used only three times in the Bible (Acts 17:29, Rom. 1:20 and Col. 2:9) and in none of these places is the expression used to replace the idea of God being a single individual who has a Divine Son who is worshipped alongside Himself. And not even once does the term "godhead" in scripture allude to the worship of anyone else.
All worship should be directed to God and Christ in heaven. It is not about where we are when we worship but, like sending a petition to the king of England, we do not send it to Spain or Australia but to him in England where he is. Similarly, Jesus in teaching us how to pray directed that we say, "Our Father which art in heaven".
We should not be praying to nor worshipping anything on earth. We should pray to God in heaven, approaching His throne through Christ, our Mediator, and we should direct our worship to heaven where God is. This is the substance of the second Commandment that Rome has removed.
1 cor 8 v 6
"Nothing can be allowed to divide us." Amen, Pastor Kelly. Don't let Satan have his way in dividing our church. We are almost home, beloved!!!
He is misguided, and misleading his flock. Study the scripture for yourselves and pray for discernment and truth.
Thanks pastor Kelly for presenting this topic. May God enlighten those that are dividing our church
You are following the wrong shepherd .
Ezekiel 8:3-18
Matthew 15:9
Wonderful 3 part series. This topic is a real tension in the church; along with the other things that do not glorify God or bring others close to Him. Maranatha! :)
What is the 3 part?
It is strange that these brethren who argue for the trinity doctrine do it with such arrogance and in the spirit of the Pharisees of Christ's days.
Christ in you the hope of glory. Col 1:27
PRAISE GOD FOR HIS TRUTH; UNCHANGEABLE TRUTH. THANK GOD FOR HIS MESSENGER. FALSE DOCTRINE WILL NEVER CHANGE THE FACT OF THE EXISTENCE OF THE PRESENCE OF THE GODHEAD. ONLY THOSE WHO WANT TO BE DECEIVED WILL BE DECEIVED. AS FOR ME I AM STANDING FIRM IN MY CONVICTION OF THE THIRD PERSON OF THE GODHEAD. AND NEITHER PRIDE NOR PRESUMPTIOUSNESS WILL DETER OR ALTER MY FAITH IN THE PERSONAL PRESENCE AND WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. JOHN 14:16--18 ; THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT JOHN 15:26 ; JOHN 16:7-- 14. PRAISE GOD FOR SENDING HIS HOLY SPIRIT TO TEACH US THINGS ABOUT THE PRESENCE OF THE GODHEAD IN OUR WORLD. JOHN 8:32 YOU SMALL KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE.
Preach it, Pastor Kelly. God is with you.❤
What God? Satan loves that this man is not telling the truth. Do your own homework and see for yourself.
Did not Lucifer attempt to set up the first Trinity in Heaven? Satan accomplished setting up Trinity after flood with Nimrod. Basically, all major religions have a Trinity of Gods.....simple....papacy promotes mystery of Trinity as foundation (something similar) of their theology....not good to mimic papal/Catholic theology Pr. KELLY....UGH!
@@JudyAnn17The devil has deceived you sister😢
@@herz4326 if God is a trinity , why didn’t God say to call himself a trinity?
Isn’t true like Sunday sabbath that the trinity was developed overtime by Rome? Do you know your history?
Do you know that David Asscherick even admitted that you cannot prove trinity from the old testament? Do you know the Adventist church even omitted the Trinity is it in assume doctrine not really taught in the word of God? Are you going to base your beliefs on assume doctrine that’s man-made? Man’s traditions will not save you. Knowing God the Father and his only begotten Son is life eternal. John 17:3. The doctrine of Jesus is 👉both👈 Father and Son.
The Trinity doctrine is one god in three persons, yet one god, who are all the same age and equal in every way.
How can a son be as old as his own father? Didn’t Jesus say his Father is Greater = Elder?
Didn’t Jesus say his Father is head over Christ?
The Trinity doctrine and Sunday sabbath worship are in bed together. I highly recommend you read the Ten Commandments again and study the order given above how you love God.
Have no other God’s before me, remember the the seventh day Sabbath…right?
It’s all about who you worship.
Ingo Sorke a SDA pastor alongside with many others are standing up against this false doctrine of the trinity.
our opponents sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which is not explicitly stated in scriptures… but the protestant churches have them self excepted such dogmas as the Trinity for which there is no such precise authority in the gospels.
Life Magazine, October 30, 1951. p. 51.
Just as the work of Reverend Gibbons in the Catholic Mirror on the true Sabbath. Also Gibbons shows how the trinity was developed over time in his work the fall of Rome.
I have been censored and block so you probably won’t even be able to read this.
@@JudyAnn17 Satan has deceived you sister. All your questions including your desire to know God's origin are the same questions Satan deluded against God and implanted in the minds of the other angels. Listen to Gabriel Estevao, an ex-satanist, who was very, very close to Satan. He knows and explains in detail how Satan has copied everything from God and how he distorts Bible truths. He sends his angels to teach error in churches. Gabriel himself talks about the Deity of heaven and the Holy Spirit. I believe the Bible alone, the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and the word of God! You should be trembling with fear, because your teaching is the teaching of DEVILS!
There will be a LOT of surprised people when Jesus comes and says 'Depart from me, I never knew you."
I do my best every day to stay in The Word. John 1:1
To those in the SDA church seeking an understanding of this subject, you will never know the multitude of falsehoods in this sermon unless you study this issue for YOURSELF and study it FROM the Bible with an OPEN HEART. As a nontrinitarian, I can tell you this sermon is riddled with falsehoods about what nontrinitarians believe. The claims made are calculated to deceive you and secure you in a belief of the false god of the trinity. If you want to know what we SDA nontrinitarians believe and why we hold to the teachings in our past history, GO TO A NONTRINITARIAN and ask. The truth needs no false pretensions to prop it up and it can bear investigation. But have confidence in this at least, that the explanations you get from a trinitarian about what nontrinitarians believe is going to be slanted at best, and a lie at worst. Prove all things and hold fast to that which is good.
Is this your only complaint?
@@jasonstych1687 It certainly is our preeminent ailment... Yes?
Not a thing was wrong with this sermon. If you didn't hear it then the Holy Spirit was unable to talk to you about it. May God have mercy. At the very least you listened.
I DID just that, deep, deep diving into the Word and SOP. Because a relative promoted the false view, causing 40 years of divisions, I searched for myself, most earnestly beseeching God's wisdom at every step. And I found the three person Godhead to be absolutely biblical.
@@carmengraves7562 God in three persons, yet one God? Catholic Holy Trinity says, one God in three persons too😉 if God is three persons, and the Lamb of God sits at the right hand of God, doesn’t that make four God’s? Trinity doctrine is a falsehood. God the Father is ONE. He is not three. Life eternal is to know the only true God, and his only begotten Son. John 17:3
Trinity doctrine is to know three.
Recommend you compare the Catholic trinity diagram which can be found online to the seven day Adventist trinity diagram. See for yourself.
POPULAR ARGUMENTS FOR THE TRINITY ADDRESSED
The Bible teaches that there are three powers in heaven: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But it did not say that together, they are the one true God, or that they are co-equal. The concept of God as a Trinity has been prevalent in pagan religions and cultures but entirely absent from the religion of ancient Israel, the apostolic religion and even the religion of later pioneers such as James White, Joseph Bates, J. N. Andrews, J. N. Loughborough, J. H. Waggoner, and others.
The Seventh-day Adventist church requires that persons wishing to become members make a vow to believe in "one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three coeternal Persons.” whereas the Bible does not explicitly teach that. The previous vow that persons took prior to 1980 was belief in "God the Father, in His Son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Spirit", which the Bible clearly teaches. The church has not allowed views like those of the pioneers to be expressed in the church and has disfellowshipped or sidelined those who hold similar beliefs as the pioneers on this matter. The church then accuses those very persons whom they forced out of the church and who then operate outside of the church, of causing division or calling people out of the church. Is that fair? Or is it a repeat of Ahab’s accusation against Elijah?
A few of the popular arguments for the Trinity are now addressed below.
1. Assertion: SDA pioneers only objected to the Catholic version of the Trinity.
Response: The pioneers of Seventh-day Adventism fully understood the doctrine of the Trinity and rejected it as error. Later, some persons such as John Harvey Kellogg and S. N. Haskel spoke favourably of the Trinity but earlier pioneers who Ellen White described as laying the foundations of our faith consistently objected to the Trinity. There is a common definition of the Trinity that is shared by all Trinitarians, whether Catholic or otherwise, even though explained differently by various bodies. This definition as given in the dictionary is that the one God of scripture is three co-equal persons. The SDA Church expresses its trinitarian belief that “There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three coeternal Persons.” (SDA Fundamental Beliefs number 2). The definition of who is Catholic, as given in the Edict of Thessalonica expresses the same idea as follows: “let us believe in the one deity of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, in equal majesty and in a holy Trinity. We authorize the followers of this law to assume the title of Catholic Christians; but as for the others, since, in our judgment they are foolish madmen, we decree that they shall be branded with the ignominious name of heretics” (Edict of Thessalonica issued 380 AD). This definition of who is Catholic and who is heretic was used as the basis for persecuting God’s people during the dark ages and continues to define what is considered Christian orthodoxy by the World Council of Churches (WCC). The Basis of the WCC speaks of “one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.” (Basis of the WCC, adopted by the Third Assembly (New Delhi 1961). The Bible teaches otherwise, as Jesus, in praying, stated that the one true God is His Father - “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3).
2. Assertion: The Hebrew word for “one” that describes God really means “united”.
Response: The Bible says that God is one (echad). The word echad is the first counting number in Hebrew, as with the numeral one. In other places of the Bible God is described using similar words such as “only” (quoted above in Jesus’s prayer), “none else”, “no other”, “He”, “none like me”. The Jews themselves, in whose language the word echad is used to describe God, understood it to mean one individual. The one God (one supreme Being) of the Bible is Jesus’s Father - “For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named” (Eph. 3:14, 15). The Father has no co-equals. He is “the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see” (1 Tim. 6:15, 16). There aren’t three supreme beings, only One. All other beings are subject to Him. Another word that Trinitarians appeal to is Elohim, where God (Elohim) said “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness” (Gen. 1:26). They assume that God (Elohim) is three persons. The Bible does not say that. Ellen White explains, “I saw that when God said to his SON, Let us make man in our image, Satan was jealous of JESUS.” (Ellen G. White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 1, pp. 17, 18). God (the Father of Christ) was speaking to His Son only. His Son is “the express image of His person” (Heb. 1:3). Ellen White speaks again explicitly in the following words: “The Sovereign of the universe was not alone in His work of beneficence. He had an associate - a co-worker who could appreciate His purposes”. “Christ, the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father - one in nature, in character, in purpose - the only being that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God.” (E. G. White, Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 34).
3. Assertion: Jesus is co-equal with the Father
Response: Jesus never claimed full equality with God, His Father, at any point in His existence. Before He came to earth, His Father anointed and appointed Him - “Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.” (Heb. 1:9; see also verse 2). While He was on earth, He said “my Father is greater than I” (John 14:28). After sin is finished, He will still be subject to His Father - “And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.” (1 Cor. 15:28).
4. Assertion: The Holy Spirit is co-equal with the Father
Response: The Bible does not speak anywhere of a third God-Being who has the image or likeness of God or “the similitude of God.” (James 3:9). There is no denying that the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, sent at Pentecost is a person - only not a God-being to be worshipped. Like the Angel of Revelation 18, the Comforter carries out a work of worldwide extent and is aided by other heavenly beings. Ellen G. White describing the latter rain speaks of a mighty angel from heaven being sent to do this work and further said, "Angels were sent to aid the mighty angel from heaven" (Ellen. G. White, Story of Redemption, p. 399). The language of John 14-16 speaks of someone whom Jesus would ask the Father to send. That Person would not speak of himself but would speak only what He hears and would bring back to the minds of the disciples the things that Jesus would have told them - “he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak” (John 16:13). The three powers of heaven are God, Christ, and angels. There are many such references; for example: “I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things” (1 Tim. 5:21). These are the same ones who were present at the creation - “Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? …. When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?” (Job 38:4-7). Again, “Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne” (Rev.1:4). These seven spirits are later described as “seven lamps of fire” (Rev. 4:5) and as “the seven angels which stood before God” (Rev. 8:2). This is consistent with the Hebrew word ruach and the Greek word pneuma that are translated in the Bible as spirit. These words are also translated spirits, thus indicating that the Holy Spirit need not be seen as one individual being who is omnipresent but many spirit beings representing God everywhere.
5. Assertion: Ellen White led the church into a Trinitarian understanding of God.
Response: Ellen White never used the term Trinity to describe God. She spoke of three persons of the godhead, which is consistent with the view expressed here that the Holy Spirit is a person, just not someone co-equal with God or to be worshipped. Regarding Ellen White’s statement that “In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived” (Desire of Ages, p. 530), the full statement shows that it is not Jesus Himself that is being described, but rather, life - which Jesus has and is able to impart. Here is the full statement as it was originally published in Signs of the Times: “In Him was life, original, unborrowed, underived. This life is not inherent in man. He can possess it only through Christ.” (The Signs of the Times, April 8, 1897; also Selected Messages, vol. 1, pp. 296, 297). Being described is the nature and quality of this life and not the origin of it. Original - not a pattern or copy, but something genuine, authentic. Unborrowed - does not have to be returned. Underived - not being drawn from a source; He has it in Himself. How He came in possession of it? It was given to Him by His Father. Jesus said: “For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself” (John 5:26).
The Trinity denies the most fundamental truth of the gospel that God loved us to the point of giving His only begotten Son to die for us (John 3:16). It was not an eternal God who cannot die, but the literal Son of God who did die and was raised from the dead by His Father (Gal.1:1).
And yet ELLEN WHITE believed clearly in the trinity, so I'll take her inspired opinion, and the gospels over your suppositions.
Also I detect another mirantha media supporter, I'm not going to sit idly by while that organization ruins souls for eternity.
@@matthewkabushWhere did she say that she believed in the Trinity?
@@matthewkabushThe personal attack, which is typical of those who have no scriptural support for their position, is not worthy of a response. Who is mirantha media? And how did they get into this conversation?
Then why the controversy?
n Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived. “He that hath the Son hath life.” 1 John 5-12. The divinity of Christ is the believer's assurance of eternal life. DA 530.3
Milian Lauritz Andreasen (June 4, 1876 - February 19, 1962), a Seventh-day Adventist theologian, pastor and author. was such a staunch non trinitarian that when he saw that statement in Desire of Ages he couldn't believe that EGW wrote it. He went to her house in Elmshaven a decade later and only after that visit did he become trinitarian. Here's his testimony:
"How astonished we were when Desire of Ages was first published, for it contained some things that we considered unbelievable; among others the doctrine of the Trinity, which was not generally accepted by the Adventists then. I was particularly interested, in the statement in Desire of Ages which at one time caused great concern to the denomination theologically: 'In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived' (p. 530). That statement may not seem very
revolutionary to you, but to us it was. We could hardly believe it. ... I was sure Sister White had never written, 'In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived.' But now I found it in her own handwriting just as it had been published." ML Andreasen
May God help us sort through these confusing times as we trod the journey to the New Jerusalem.
Our Father,
Who art in heaven, hallowed be your most holy and righteous name, may your kingdom comes within our hearts and minds, may your will be done in our lives. We are calling upon you because there are so much confusion going on within your Church, and we are praying that you will give us wisdom, because you promised that if any of us lacks wisdom to ask of you, who gives liberally, so we petition your throne if grace for wisdom and understanding. I pray for your people like the way Moses your servant prayed for the Children of Israel in his time. Please be merciful to us for we are but dust. Please send us clarity and understanding towards the truth. In Jesus name I pray, Amen.
Amen.
What a solemn sermon?
Lord I see my need, mercy.
Glory to the Father unto the son and unto the Holy spirit 🙏
I rest my case, am at sweet peace with this doctrine.
Glory to the Father Son and Holy Spirit 🙏
the issue I have with this the more I see is
are we a church of FROOME ? or ELLEN G WHITE AS OUR FUNDAMENTAL BELIEFS
FROOME uses EGW quotes and so did DES FORD use citation of EGW
as we see this develop FROOME supersedes ELLEN G WHITE
I see so many SDA PASTORS with their walls of books in there homes of WORLDLY WRITERS AND PHILOSOPHY
December 7, 1955
Elder L.E. Froom
Office
Dear Brother Froom:
Mrs. Soper calls to our attention the fact that you are seeking information as to the position held by our early workers concerning the Trinity, the personality of the Holy Spirit, and the pre-existence of Christ as this may be revealed in their writings.
I think we will have to concede that our early workers were not Trinitarians.
I would like to direct you to a thesis prepared by Christie Taylor on the subject of the views of Seventh-day Adventists on the Trinity. I gave some study to this question in assisting Elder Taylor in his work. I believe what he has presented is a fair and correct presentation.
Sincerely your brother,
Arthur L. White, Secretary
Ellen G. White Publications
ALW:ro
Q. & A. File # 25-0-1
Trinity, belief of early pioneers re.
See R & H articles
Jesus is your brother. One intercessor between God man.
Because ye are sons ,God has sent forth the spirit of his son into your hearts.... Did Jesus breathe the third person of the Godhead into his Disciples?
Did Jesus ever pray that The Father and the Son and the Spirit be one in us ? Confusion.
Jesus is everything and it's time
to lift Him up. I'm always amused by the convoluted way they try to explain the trinity.
One spirit, One Lord ,one baptism. I believe that the spirit of God is our everything.
Love you all. Soon.......
A good sermon to go with this one is "Is Jesus Jehovah God?" - J Reynolds Hoffman. He covers some details that bring this subject clarity on the Triune Godhead. Maranatha! :)
Holy! Holy! Holy! Three Holy Beings
Isaiah 6:3 "And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.”
Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
“Did you catch that? That’s one “holy” for each person of the Godhead!“
You are born unto God, and you stand under the sanction and the power of the three holiest beings in heaven, who are able to keep you from falling. 7MR 267.2
“The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the three holy dignitaries of heaven, have declared that they will strengthen men to overcome the powers of darkness.”-5 Bible Commentary, 1110. (Manuscript 92,1901).
@@Keating-ue6do who is the Lord God Almighty only according to Revelation 21:22?
Is He 1 Person, 2 persons or three persons? Who is the Lamb? If they are the same, explain it?
In Revelation 1:4 who is this that it is talking about, God the Father, or a trinity God? 👉His throne👈is who?
Revelation 1:5 gives you the answers 😉
Holy, Holy, Holy is referring to 👉Whom? 👈
It certainly says nothing about trinity God’s . I recommend you study with a clean pure heart for truth and not man man up doctrines. Isn’t true trinity is not ever found in the word of God? Where did the word trinity come from? Who invented it and how did the doctrine develop? Have you done your homework in this area? I am pretty sure you didn’t.
Back up text for Lord God Almighty Revelation 4:8
Revelation 4 is proving God is one not three in one😉
Revelation 1:1 shows God is the ONLY one who gives to his Son. The order of Heaven.
@@JudyAnn17 We don't believe in Catholic trinity. The anti-trinity folk do. We believe in the Godhead.
CATHOLIC TRINITY
The Trinity of the Catholic Church is derived from Greek philosophy and teaches that it is the Father who eternally generates the Son. The Son is seen as having been derived/begotten by the Father while the Holy Spirit proceeds from both. This implies that the generation of the Son depends on the Father theologically and that the Father is the only one without origin. The Catholic Church affirms the eternal subordination of the Son.
ANTI-TRINITARIANS
Anti-Trinitarians have substantial similarities to the Roman Catholic Church’s concept of the trinity. They seem to have inherited the Roman Catholic Church’s understanding of God
with the Son in subordination to the Father having been begotten in a birthing event deriving his existence from the Father. This similarity is also seen in the procession of the Holy Spirit from both the Father and Son.
The anti-trinitarians in reality are expounding Roman Catholic trinity doctrine and it is possible that Rome herself is at the head of their movement and has them deceived.
@@Keating-ue6do Godhead means what?
One God in three persons? Explain yourself 😉
Godhead is only found how many times In holy Scriptures?
Holy, Holy, Holy is reference to how many and to whom?
You said three persons 😉😉
@@Keating-ue6do Jesus wasn’t a trinitarian. Neither were his disciples. Neither was Mrs. White or the true founders of our SDA church.
@@Keating-ue6do Didn’t Jesus say God was head over him ?
Isn’t that biblical? Wouldn’t that mean that a Son is subject to his father ?
Jesus was begotten from eternity from his Father. God sent his only begotten Son, isn’t that biblical? Wouldn’t that mean the Only begotten Son is subject to the will of his Father?
When was the last time you read your Bible and Sop Vol 1. p. 17?
The Holy Spirit is the Comforter, in Christ’s name. He personifies Christ, yet is a distinct personality. Ms93.1893.8
Distinct means "not the same as" "another"
Until you understand what it means by personify you will struggle with how the Holy Spirit can "become Christ to us" while a distinct Person. He takes on personality, thoughts and words of Christ on his behalf. He knows the mind of Christs and the Father's thoughts. 1 Corinthians 2:11 - even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Definition of Personify
Personify- embody, epitomize, exemplify, manifest,typify, express, image, imitate, impersonate, materialize, mirror, substantiate.
Helpful
How is it that Jesus named the Catholic Church as The Beast, Babylon the Great, The Whore and Antichrist, and still it is believed that she is correct when she profess the following: "The mystery of the Holy Trinity is the most fundamental of our faith. On it everything else depends and from it everything else derives. Hence the Churchs constant concern to safeguard the revealed truth that God is One in nature and Three in Persons".
ALL of her false dogmas, including sunday-sabbath is based on the false personality of God. It is beyond all imagination that our church fell for that deception contrary to the fact that the Bible does not support it.
I have come to the conclusion that it was meant to be that way. The Adventist Church is not the remnant. The remnant is a small minority within the Adventist Church.
Amen.
How is it even remotely plausible that the mother harlot would concede and oblige to the one true God of the Bible?
The beast MUST have it's own god.
Sadly...we quite recently now submit to their same god.
The Omega?... has fully ripened.
'Toward the north; where was the seat of the Image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.' Ezekiel 8:3
'This Image of jealousy in the entry.' Ezekiel 8:5
@rogeraak7281
AGREE.
The little horn overthrew 3 horns.
Those 3 horns were all anti-trinitarian.
I was baptized 1981.
I did not believe in the trinity.
I was not permitted to 'join' the church that hosted the prophecy series.
I was only permitted to 'join' the Ohio Conference Church.
I was fine with that - there was no way I was going to compromise my belief.
43 years later I still believe in God the Father, Jesus the Son of God, and THEIR spirit.
It is so much more than an issue of semantics...it is life eternal ♥
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3
I live in NY and got one of those packets; I have no idea who sends them to me but have received them for years. They are confusing and now I refuse to open them, they just go in the trash. I do have a feeling who may have sent them though; they always come to me directly no matter how many address changes I have. Weird.
And yet you haven't studied it out to know if it's the truth? You'll be responsible to answer for it because it came in front of you. You can't say it is wrong if you have done the deep digging to see if it's the truth. On Judgement Day saying but, Pastor Kelly said so and the the church rules were.. won't cut it. You have to give an account for yourself and whether you LOVED the Truth!
@@user-qn3kh3ip9t yes, I am fully aware of that, thanks.
Bredrien, the words sound good. Truly not all that glitter is not gold. There's was a time when didn't have the spirit of prophecy because an organized body thinks it was of no importance to the ordinary folks. Yes, the Holy Spirit is a person, but it is not a person separate from the Father and the son. The Holy Spirit is Christ himself by his Spirit. Go and read the spirit of prophecy for yourself. The Godhead is not a trinity.
The imparted Holy Spirit enabled His disciples, the apostles, to stand firmly against every species of idolatry and to exalt the Lord and Him alone. Who, but Jesus Christ by His Spirit and divine power, guided the pens of the sacred historians that to the world might be presented the precious record of the sayings and works of Jesus Christ? Ms 1, 1892, par. 5
Christ has taken human nature. Therefore He does not have a "spirit". Moreover, Christ gave up His omnipresence when He took our nature. He cannot be in heaven and on earth in the same time. Especially through a "spirit" that He does not have.
Is this an issue over there in the Village church nowadays? 😮 it happened in Brazil when I used to live there, it also has happened here in Colombia where I am currently living now. It seems that the devil is bringing up the same issue and deceit everywhere.
So much apostasy since the early 1960's.
I found these audio videos of a campmeeting with Colin Standish.
VERY ENLIGHTENING
Colin Standish on the Omega of Apostacy
ua-cam.com/play/PLJIHyAnsG9SPWbrVwkvhrEQspKj73Ezhs.html
I did not find the attitude Christ like. What Spirit is in control.
the Apostles Peter and Paul are buried in the catacombs under the Vatican. When Christ returns, the bodies of both Peter and Paul will be resurrected from under the Altar in the Vatican.*
Proof. How did the Vatican find the bodies of people from the first century? How did they identify the remains as Peter and Paul?
REVELATION CONFIRMS ONE GOD, ONE MEDIATOR AND HOLY SPIRITS
Jesus said: “The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord” (Mark 12:29). The scribe, to whom Jesus spoke, responded, “Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he” (Mark 12:32). To this, the Divine record says, “And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.” (Mark 12:34). Jesus considered the scribe’s answer a discreet one. Revelation confirms that God is one person, not three. In vision, John saw that “one sat on the throne. And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone” (Rev. 4:2, 3). The beings around the throne worship Him, saying “Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.” (Rev. 4:11). He is the Creator. Separate from this Being who is called “Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come” (Rev. 4:8), we see Jesus, as the “Lamb that was slain” (Rev. 5:12). The beings in heaven worship both God and Christ, saying “Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.” (Rev. 5:13).
The book of Revelation begins with a declaration of a chain of command: God gave to Christ, Christ gave to His angel, and the angel gave to John - “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John” (Rev. 1:1). There is no confusion here, and most people seem to understand this.
The Revelation continues with greetings being brought to the seven churches from God, Christ and the seven spirits before God’s throne - “Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead” (Rev. 1:4, 5). This is where some people get confused - they say that it is not really seven spirits but one spirit - the ‘seven-fold’ spirit. But the Revelation is clear that the seven spirits are seven discrete entities, not one entity - “And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.” (Rev. 4:5).
What are these seven lamps of fire before God’s throne, who can send greetings? They must be living beings! Is there any category of living beings who are described as lamps of fire? Let the scriptures answer - “And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.” (Heb. 1:7); and further, “But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?” (Heb. 1:14).
There ought to be no confusion as to who these seven spirits are, who send greetings. But lest some say that they are still unclear, let the scriptures describe in further detail those who stand before God’s throne - “And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God” (Rev. 8:1, 2). Recall that it is the same scene in which the throne of God is described with seven lamps of fire before it, and the lamb came to Him that sat on the throne, took the book from His hand and started to open the seals of the book. The word of God is clear, for those who will receive it.
THE PERSONHOOD OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
The big challenge of most Trinitarians and Non-Trinitarians alike is that they fail to accept all that the scriptures say about the Holy Spirit without adding to it. Trinitarians accept that the Holy Spirit is a Person - He speaks, He can be grieved, He is sent, He is separate from Jesus, as seen when Jesus was in the water and the Holy Spirit appeared separately as a dove etc. - all scriptural; but they add to the scriptures by saying that He is co-equal with the Father and should be worshipped - totally unscriptural. Many Non-Trinitarians on the other hand reject all the scriptures that point to the Holy Spirit as someone that Jesus sends in His place to comfort us till He returns - “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you” (John 15:26); and “but if I depart, I will send him unto you” (John 16:7) etc. and claim that there is no third individual called the Comforter. The Bible and Ellen White are clear that there is a third being, the Comforter, who is sent to dispense spiritual gifts and coordinate the work until Christ returns. The Angel of Revelation 18 will come at the right time to do a similar but more extensive work. Ellen G. White describing the latter rain speaks of a mighty angel from heaven being sent to do this work and further said, "Angels were sent to aid the mighty angel from heaven" (Ellen. G. White, Story of Redemption, p. 399).
Much of the confusion on the part of many Non-Trinitarians has to do with the fact that the mind is also called spirit. So, yes, Christ’s spirit (or mind) is in us, meaning that our minds (thoughts) are shaped by His mind through His word that we accept and believe, but this should not be confused with the fact that the Comforter is a separate being sent by Christ - just not a co-equal; and there is only one supreme Being, the Father of Christ, not three.
I think it is sad that so many people trust other people to explain the Bible to them, and thereby believe in philosophies not mentioned or explained in scripture.
Think about how the following fact fits into a Trinity doctrine (IT DOESN'T FIT) : Christ now sits on His Fathers Throne, when the Father has put all enemies of Christ under His feet, then Christ receives His OWN THRONE, under God, His Father, who is also His God, according to scripture.
1Cor 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he (Jesus) shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he (Jesus) shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.25 For he (Jesus) must reign, till he (Father) hath put all enemies under his feet.26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be SUBJECT unto him (Father) that put all things under him, that God (Father) may be all in all.
Rev 3:12,21 Him that overcometh will I (Jesus) make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me (Jesus) in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in HIS THRONE.
Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Heb 1:1-14…when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high….But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom….But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool?
“Our heavenly Father is the God of the universe, and Christ is the divine Son, the One equal with the Father.” 21LtMs, Ms 49, 1906, par. 26
“God is the Father of Christ; Christ is the Son of God. To Christ has been given an exalted position. He has been made equal with the Father. All the counsels of God are opened to His Son.” CCh 76.5
Who is the God of the Universe? The Father or a Triune God?
If Christ is given His own throne subject unto His Father, that sits as the God of the Universe on the heavenly Throne the philosophy of a Triune God sitting as a singular God on a singular throne is nonsensical.
God is like a fire. Although fire is one thing it has the aspects of light, smoke and heat. A fire is not a fire without any of those 3 parts… but it is one thing. God is similar in that He is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit but is still the Lord.
Sample scriptures for Jesus being part of the Trinity:
John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Sample scriptures for the Holy Spirit being part of the Trinity:
2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2 Corinthians 3:3-8 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
2 Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
@@villagemediaministry "God is like fire" Wow, you should read what SOP has to say about your comment :
“I am instructed to say, The sentiments of those who are searching for advanced scientific ideas are not to be trusted. Such representations as the following are made: “The Father is as the light invisible; the Son is as the light embodied; the Spirit as the light shed abroad.” “The Father is like the dew, invisible vapor; the Son is like the dew gathered in beauteous form; the Spirit is like the dew fallen to the seat of life.” Another representation: “The Father is like the invisible vapor. The Son is like the leaden cloud. The Spirit is rain fallen and working in refreshing power.” 21LtMs, Ms 21, 1906, par. 8
All these SPIRITUALISTIC representations are simply nothingness. They are imperfect, untrue. They weaken and diminish the Majesty which no earthly likeness can be compared to. God cannot be compared with the things His hands have made. These are mere earthly things, suffering under the curse of God because of the sins of man. The Father cannot be described by the things of earth. The Father is all the fulness of the Godhead bodily and is invisible to mortal sight.” 21LtMs, Ms 21, 1906, par. 9
All your sample scriptures proves what I believe, that there is a Heavenly Father that manifested His Love to us by sending His own Son to be the propitiation for our sin, and that in their physical absence here on earth they manifest themselves to us in a spiritual way, as the Comforter.
None of your texts define God as a Trinity, that is the assumption you make. Maybe you could rather read my first comment and explain how the idea of a Trinity fits in with Christ receiving His own Kingdom and Throne UNDER God, after He leaves His Fathers Throne , whom Christ also calls His God.
Nothing we can point to can explain God fully but, like the Lord used parables, sometimes we have to use aspects of His created nature to attempt to bring greater understanding.
@@villagemediaministry All your sample scriptures proves what I believe, that there is a Heavenly Father that manifested His Love to us by sending His own Son to be the propitiation for our sin, and that in their physical absence here on earth they manifest themselves to us in a spiritual way, as the Comforter.
None of your texts define God as a Trinity, that is the assumption you make. Maybe you could rather read my first comment and explain how the idea of a Trinity fits in with Christ receiving His own Kingdom and Throne UNDER God, after He leaves His Fathers Throne , whom Christ also calls His God.
How do you reconcile the statements in John 1 that the Word (Jesus Christ) was there in the beginning and was God... this is before He was born on earth.
We haven't even mentioned that no mere creation could die for our sins. It had to be God Himself incarnate. If God could create the sacrifice and creation costs Him nothing... how could that ever suffice? If God only created Jesus then that sacrifice would be no different than the goat He created dyeing in the earthly sanctuary.
People become confused with the word " ONE" in Duet 6:4
The Hebrew language is NOT thebEnglish. The word one God is the word ehkward as in one people ot more than one . If God was the one and only the word one would be eesh. The Israelites knew what they were talking about we think we do Also the word " LORD" always refers to Jehovah. ThebFather , the Son and the Holy Spirit were aall called " LORD' Since the incarnation luke 24: 36-43, says Jesus is no longer a Spirit but a man as one of us . This is the reason why He gave us the Holy Spirit to take His lpace on earth after His resurrection John 16,17. The disciples relied on the Holy Spirit.to guide them in preaching the gospel
ELLEN G WHITE has a whole book on TRUTH ABOUT ANGELS
why is there no book on the
TRUTH ABOUT THE THIRD BEING ???
silly question ?
The apostle here contrasts the mortal state with the immortal; the present imperfect, with that which will be perfect; the cloudy present while we walk by faith, with the open glory of the life to come. Here, we only know in part, prophesy in part; there, that which is in part will be done away. Here, we see through a glass darkly; there, face to face. Here, we know in part; there, we shall know, even as we are known. Charity, or love, will never end. Here, it is the highest Christian grace; there, it will be the crowning glory of immortals forever and forever. In this sense, love will never fail. But prophecies will fail, tongues will cease, and knowledge will vanish away. The light of heaven through the dim medium of these, and the other gifts of the Holy Spirit, is represented as being only in part, and is to be superseded by the perfect day of glory when we may talk face to face with God, Christ, and angels, as our first parents talked with God in Eden before sin entered. But when? This is the vital question. When were the gifts to be done away? Let Paul answer: “But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” “And let all the people say, Amen.”
3SG 14.1
face to face with God, Christ, and angels
no 3rd PERSON
Not a silly question. The Father, no man has seen. And Jesus is still in His human form in the holy of holies. So who's down here? The trinity issue is simply contending with a false world predecessor just like the Sabbath. Their werent this torrent over shapes and symbols until solomons seals. Now the triangle has to be connotated as evil. Its absurdity.
You are born unto God, and you stand under the sanction and the power of the three holiest beings in heaven, who are able to keep you from falling. 7MR 267.2
@@chrischung2365
where is this book dedicated to the 3RD BEING ???
DESIRE OF AGES is JESUS
The apostle here contrasts the mortal state with the immortal; the present imperfect, with that which will be perfect; the cloudy present while we walk by faith, with the open glory of the life to come. Here, we only know in part, prophesy in part; there, that which is in part, will be done away. Here, we see through a glass darkly; there, face to face. Here, we know in part; there, we shall know, even as we are known. Charity, or love, will never end. Here, it is the highest Christian grace; there, it will be the crowning glory of immortals for ever and for ever. In this sense love will never fail. But prophecies will fail, tongues will cease, and knowledge will vanish away. The light of heaven through the dim medium of these, and the other gifts of the holy Spirit, is represented as being only in part, and is to be superseded by the perfect day of glory when we may talk face to face with God, Christ, and angels, as our first parents talked with God in Eden before sin entered. But when? This is the vital question. When were the gifts to be done away? Let Paul answer: “But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” “And let all the people say, Amen.”
MIRP 15.2
walk FACE TO FACE with GOD + CHRIST + ANGELS
where does EGW say walk with the 3RD BEING
SEEMS SOME there is no CLOUDY - DARK GLASS some seem to know all
Pr. Kelly does focus on "Holy, Happy people" that "have been with Jesus". Very true. Too many Sadventists open to division. I respect individual choice to stand up for what they believe. I'm still studying topics and church history. I have an issue where things are heading with speaking in tongues (gibberish), promotion of spiritual formation, slipping of morality, dress codes, rock music in church, going with feeling. Agree totally that Satan has plan to have anything take place of focusing on Jesus as OUR LORD AND SAVIOR.
@@chrischung2365
this is a snippet as there are other whole paragraphs
BORN UNTO GOD - FIRST - HEADSHIP LOVE IT
I really appreciate more than 80% of pastor Ron's message. May the Lord bless his ministry.
But I must say that to have a holier, happier Advent movement we need to at a minimum, follow Ellen White's appeal from Jeremiah 6:16, to return to the old paths where was good way, and we will find rest for our souls, our resting place.
1. I'm not sure what the package said, but Jesus didn't leave His disembodied spirit here, He is omnipresent. The rest of the last statement is found in 14MR23.3. I'll paraphrase: "The Spirit is Himself; [Jesus] would represent Himself by His Holy Spirit. Thus everyone can...." Please read the actual publication.
There a biblical precedent for Jesus being in two places at once.
"Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared....
For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off." (Exo. 23:20,23).
It was the Spirit of Christ representing His Father on the mountain, and His bodily presence down in the camp.
2. Concerning Adventist non-trinitarianism, "Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth." (1 John 2:7-8)
I meant to be explaining the omnipresence of Christ as Ellen White wrote in 14MR23.3
@@DavidBurdick-fe9cg Christ left forever His omnipresence, when He became a man. He can no longer be here on this earth, as when He walked it as a man.
Although our Lord ascended from earth to heaven, the Holy Spirit was appointed as His representative among men. "If ye love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not,, neither knoweth Him; but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless." Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally; therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave them, go to His Father, and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is Himself, divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof. Christ would represent Himself as present in all places by His Holy Spirit,-as the Omnipresent. "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall [although unseen by you] teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. . . . Nevertheless, I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away, for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you." - PrT May 30, 1895, par. 7
m.egwwritings.org/en/book/452.296
Thou shalt have no other gods before ME. Who is the ME?
Did not say.... Us.....
Both the Father and Son proclaimed the law on Sinai, no?
God is like a fire. Although fire is one thing it has the aspects of light, smoke and heat. A fire is not a fire without any of those 3 parts… but it is one thing. God is similar in that He is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit but is still the Lord.
Sample scriptures for Jesus being part of the Trinity:
John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Sample scriptures for the Holy Spirit being part of the Trinity:
2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2 Corinthians 3:3-8 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
2 Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
@@chrischung2365
where did JESUS set up a church temple or service to worship him ?
@@scottwakefield9741 yet in the beginning He did say let us make man in our image. also there are 3 in heaven that bear witness, the Father, the word, and the holy spirit, and these 3 are 1. how do we reason that out? i can think of another place where the same language is used. the beast, the dragon, and the land beast. there are 3, yet they are of one mind.
Elijahandmoses. Y.i. 1898 say Christs HUMANITY died not His DIVINITY. Jesus is the resurrection and the life. John 10:17,18. His body did not corrupt in the tomb Psa 16:10. and He would have been dead for 40 hours or so. He didnt rely on His Father for this life.
EGW says
both JESUS and holy SPIRIT
are subject to FATHERS WILL
3SG 14.1
The apostle here contrasts the mortal state with the immortal; the present imperfect, with that which will be perfect; the cloudy present while we walk by faith, with the open glory of the life to come. Here, we only know in part, prophesy in part; there, that which is in part will be done away. Here, we see through a glass darkly; there, face to face. Here, we know in part; there, we shall know, even as we are known. Charity, or love, will never end. Here, it is the highest Christian grace; there, it will be the crowning glory of immortals forever and forever. In this sense, love will never fail. But prophecies will fail, tongues will cease, and knowledge will vanish away. The light of heaven through the dim medium of these, and the other gifts of the Holy Spirit, is represented as being only in part, and is to be superseded by the perfect day of glory when we may talk face to face with God, Christ, and angels, as our first parents talked with God in Eden before sin entered. But when? This is the vital question. When were the gifts to be done away? Let Paul answer: “But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” “And let all the people say, Amen.”
face to FACE WITH GOD + CHRIST AND THE ANGELS
where is this 3rd PERSON ?
we are going down a path of man made inventions
I don't see anything about the Spirit being subjected to the Father's will in this passage. The gifts from the Spirit are superceded, not the Spirit himself. 3 SG 13.2 shows Mrs. WHITE was commenting on the gifts listed in 1Cor 13:8-12. For example, we won't need prophecy when we can see God face to face. The gifts will be obsolete, not the Spirit.
@andresomerville4896
Do need to find it for you ?
Egw states . Both are subject to father's will
@@Simon-Simon-Simon Your accusing the church of being in error. The burden of proof is on you. You've given me no reason to think evidence for your claims exists. The only quote you provided doesn't say what you claimed.
@@Simon-Simon-Simon "But prophecies will fail, tongues will cease, and knowledge will vanish away. The light of heaven through the dim medium of these, and the other gifts of the Holy Spirit, is represented as being only in part, and is to be superseded by the perfect day of glory when we may talk face to face with God, Christ, and angels." That's all that was said in Spiritual Gifts vol 3 pg 14.1 about the Holy Spirit. Totally unrelated to your claims about the trinity.
Ellen White told the publishing house not to publish his book! Why would you now be promoting it?
we as a church the closest to the HOLY SPIRIT EXPERIENCE IS EGW
so rejecting EGW is rejecting the HOLY SPIRIT
Lies. You have been deceived.
How dare you put a woman who stole and lied next to the Holy Spirit . That is blasphemy to the fullest. Tread carefully with your words and test your prophet. We are admonished to do so.
💚 Jeremiah 23: 30-32 💚
@@Snowcrystalsfalling
This is the issue with TRINITARIAN side
Then why are you here following this shepherd, smh!
A man named Kellogg the alpha of apostasy
OTG is the omega apostasy
Provide evidence for what you are saying please. Here’s evidence that Kellogg believed very similar to modern non trinitarians except he did to the Father what the modern movement often do to the Son. Note Butler refuting him:
"I have not by any means reached your conclusion, that the Holy Ghost and the Father are one", and probably never shall. The Scriptures say that God is a Sun; God is a light, etc. There is certainly a sense in which these statements are true. God and the Son of God MUST BE TWO DIFFERENT PERSONS. Christ says, "My Father is greater than I", and yet He says we should be one, even as the Father and He are one. It would be pretty hard to make fifteen or twenty of us, all children of God into ONE PERSON. BUT IT IS JUST AS DIFFICULT TO MAKE THE HOLY GHOST AND THE FATHER ONE PERSON." Butler to Kellogg
The Spirit of God is NOT God the Spirit Jesus said there is ONE true GOD not 3. and OT Due 4:6
The mystery of God your finite mind can’t comprehend, so stop explaining which our prophet said was not revealed to her.
One means mono. Two means bi. Three means tri. Your fight is with phoenetics and linguistics. Thats like saying a starfish or the orbital projection of venus is a satanic symbol.
Our God is One God, our finite created minds cannot comprehend the idea of a unified God presenting Himself in 3 ways doing different works with the same aim.
You left your friends and comfortable home, and came to teach me how to find Jesus, and believe in Him as the only true God. ChS 274.1
God is like a fire. Although fire is one thing it has the aspects of light, smoke and heat. A fire is not a fire without any of those 3 parts… but it is one thing. God is similar in that He is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit but is still the Lord.
Sample scriptures for Jesus being part of the Trinity:
John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Sample scriptures for the Holy Spirit being part of the Trinity:
2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2 Corinthians 3:3-8 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
2 Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.