Uriah Smith: The Idol of Many pt 1-Pastor Bill Hughes
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- Опубліковано 4 вер 2024
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Listen to the Prophet 👇:
Dr. Caro is now speaking at five o’clock p.m. upon the HEALTH QUESTION. Elder Daniells speaks this evening upon the EASTERN QUESTION. May the Lord give His Holy Spirit to inspire the hearts to make the truth plain.
13LtMs, Ms 189, 1898, par. 9
"Aug. 25, 11:00a.m. The first two pages were written Sunday after I had spoken to the crowd. The evening meeting was largely attended. Elder Smith spoke with great clearness, and many listened with open eyes, ears, and mouths. The outsiders seemed to be intensely interested in THE EASTERN QUESTION. He closed with a very solemn address to those who had not been preparing for these GREAT EVENTS IN THE NEAR FUTURE."
Lt55-1884 par. 7
Remember that Uriah Smith taught that the King of the North was the papacy for many years, so we need to discover when he switched his view to Turkey and then go back and confirm that the EGW quotes used are referencing his teaching on the KoN being the papacy or the KoN being Turkey
I will look into this. May truth win in the end. It's my understanding that the first editions of Daniel and the Revelation included this. I don't think his view changes until the 1880s or 1890s. We will need to confirm this and then review the quotes in question
@@truthtriumphantministries8461 hello, the term " Eastern Question " is not a religious term or one for SDAs alone, it's Political, historical term used by scholars in those fields. And it has a specific meaning. Google search the word. Here's what I found from Wikipedia as the definition of Eastern question.
.[1] In an attempt to triangulate between these various concerns, the historian Leslie Rogne Schumacher has proposed the following definition of the Eastern Question:
The "Eastern Question" refers to the events and the complex set of dynamics related to Europe's experience of and stake in the decline in political, military and economic power and regional significance of the Ottoman Empire from the latter half of the eighteenth century to the formation of modern Turkey in 1923.[2]
*********
The term does not refer to the Papacy in any way. The scholars of history and geo political will tell you .
I humbly request truth triumphant to do research on this.
"Elder Smith spoke on the Sabbath question to a large congregation this morning, and this evening he speaks on the EASTERN QUESTION. I feel so grateful that Brother Smith is not lost to the cause. HE SEEMS FULLY AND THOROUGHLY UNITED WITH US; seems like Brother Smith of old. Oh, thank the Lord! Praise His Holy Name, that His love, His wondrous love has been exercised toward the children of men. It is so dark, I must stop. Will write you tomorrow."
Lt55-1884 par. 6
Remember that Uriah Smith taught that the King of the North was the papacy for many years, so we need to discover when he switched his view to Turkey and then go back and confirm that the EGW quotes used are referencing his teaching on the KoN being the papacy or the KoN being Turkey
I will look into this. May truth win in the end. It's my understanding that the first editions of Daniel and the Revelation included this. I don't think his view changes until the 1880s or 1890s. We will need to confirm this and then review the quotes in question
"Sunday morning the weather was still cloudy, but before it was time for the people to assemble the sun shone forth. Boats and trains poured their living freight upon the ground, as was the case last year. Elder Smith spoke in the morning upon the EASTERN QUESTION. The subject was of SPECIAL INTEREST, and the people listened with the most earnest attention. It seemed to be just what they wanted to hear."
Review and Herald, September 6, 1877
Remember that Uriah Smith taught that the King of the North was the papacy for many years, so we need to discover when he switched his view to Turkey and then go back and confirm that the EGW quotes used are referencing his teaching on the KoN being the papacy or the KoN being Turkey
I will look into this. May truth win in the end. It's my understanding that the first editions of Daniel and the Revelation included this. I don't think his view changes until the 1880s or 1890s. We will need to confirm this and then review the quotes in question
P. Bill needs to take this to heart "We are to repeat the words of the pioneers in our work." R&H May 25, 1905.21. And that includes Uriah Smith!!!
Statements like that are never totally inclusive without the use of common sense. Mrs. White means repeat the words of the pioneers when they are not in error--obviously. I believe you know that that is how God speaks. Repeat the truths, not the errors, that may include Uriah Smith or not or just some. Again, you know better about this principle. If the Holy Spirit is saying, just repeat the words of the pioneers even when they contradict each other and themselves then God is the author of confusion--of course it does not mean that. When will we as a people be guided by principles and not the letter?
Bill Hughes thank you sir for your teachings on the last days you and all the pastors there. I learned so much and I am grateful that the Messiah allowed me to learn some very powerful messages from you and the brethren. Thank you so much and God bless you all.
Dear Brother… One Brother, who had intimated in his writing on the subject that the king of the North might be the pope, told me that Sister White told him he “never should have intimated any such thing, and that his idea would only create confusion.” This was not put in print, but it was what he told me in autumn 1878 ...
J. N. Loughborough’s letter to Wilfrid Belleau, March 25, 1915.
Apparently this is presumed to have been talking about James White
“God used the author [Uriah Smith] of this book [Daniel and the Revelation] as a channel through which to communicate light to direct minds to the truth.” 1MR 63
“There must be no long discussions, no presenting of new theories in regard to prophecies that God has already made plain.” RH, November 27, 1900
Happy sabbath Pastor Bill, your presentation today is so important for us. If we don’t have an understanding of who the players are in these final events then we will not see the evil workings of the correct counterfeit King of the North coming before us right now. The Roman Papacy is just about ready to bring us politically into its form of government- fascism and spiritually into its form of worship- the Sunday Law. If we’re stubbornly looking for Turkey to achieve this evil, the joke is on us. So thank you for teaching us as the Holy Spirit has moved you today.
No one expects turkey to do this. People who consider kon to be turkey still believe everything you do as well as the extra bit about the invasion of Israel, before the cop
Which church are preaching the gospel of the kingdom around the world to all nations as Jesus Christ said? Matthew 10:16,24:14,28:19-20,Mark 13:10.
@@vusimngomezulu2500 Pavel Goia, Eugene Prewitt, Dennis Preiby, and a bunch of others. There are a number in the church preaching the 3 angels messages. But please answer my question
Happy blessed Sabbath Pastor Bill and to all brethren herein. Glad for this timely teaching
Happy Sabbath Wycliffe!
Happy Sabbath Pr. Hughes and everyone at Truth Triumphant and in the comment section!
Happy Sabbath Guy!
I'm so happy to understand so many thing about our church and thank you so much for your job wonderful job wonderful group God bless you❤
The interest in Daniel and the Revelation is to continue as long as probationary time shall last. God used the author of this book as a channel through which to communicate light to direct minds to the truth. Shall we not appreciate this light, which points us to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, our King? - {1MR 63.1}
When does the prophecy of Daniel 11 switch from literal to spiritual?
If you watch the Antichrist Showdown series, there is a step by step look at Daniel 11
@@truthtriumphantministries8461 Louis Were came on the scene with his heresy only in 1940 not much older than I am at 79 years old. the Bible admonishes us in Jeremiah 6:16 to Ask for the old paths, but ancient Israel said no we won't, modern Israel is saying the same.
@@truthtriumphantministries8461
Who is the Third Woe ? The First 2 were from the Ottoman Empire.
Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, THE THIRD WOE COMETH QUICKLY
The first four trumpets are GOD’S JUDGMENTS ON IMPERIAL ROME or pagan Rome REPRESENTED BY the legs. The downfall of the Roman Empire was wrought by the barbarians. Who swept over Western Rome and ended the dominance of that empire. The three horns that were plucked up were the Heruli, the Vandals, and
the Ostrogoths. No division could take place, or at least none is said to have taken place, till the weakening element of the clay was introduced; and we do not find this till the feet and toes. Rome accepting the Christian faith mingled with paganism. A little horn came up, and, thrust aside three of its fellows. Daniel 7:24 says "And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings."
THE LAST THREE ARE GOD’S JUDGMENTS ON APOSTATE CHRISTIAN ROME or Papal Rome REPRESENTED by the feet. The Saracens and The Ottoman were to hurt and torment Papal Rome while overrunning Eastern Rome While the Ottoman empire made concerted efforts to capture Constantinople. Had the Papal apostasy not been hindered in its early development, the reformation of the East may not have survived.
In the last and the third Woe The Turks shall come to their end. “He shall come to his end,
and none shall help him.” Daniel 11:45. This expression plainly implies that this power has previously received help. And it is a notorious fact that since the fall of the Ottoman supremacy in 1840, the empire has existed only through the sufferance of the great powers of Europe. Without their pledged support, she would not be long able to maintain even a nominal existence; and when that is withdrawn, she must come to the ground.
Under the 3 angels message the stone smites the image upon its feet for it's fornication between the Church and State. The image is dashed in pieces for The enforcement of the mark of the beast. The Papacy, on the other hand, is the power “whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth,
and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming” 2 Thessalonians 2:8
The role the Papacy has of persecuting God’s people as given in Revelation 13 and 17 must not be confused with the role Turkey the King of the North has of signaling to the world what next event follows. “And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain …” (Dan 11:45). “ This movement on the part of Turkey is the signal for the standing up of Michael; that is, it marks this event as next in order” (Uriah Smith, 1882 edition, p. 389).
James White on Armageddon and the sixth plague Again, it may be asked how the way of the kings of the East will be prepared by the drying up or consumption of the Ottoman power? The answer is obvious. For what is the way of these kings to be prepared? Ans. To come up to the great battle. Where is the battle to be fought? At Jerusalem. See Joel and Zephaniah. But Jerusalem is in the hands of the Turks. They hold possession of the land of Palestine and the sacred sepulchres. Here is the bone of contention. On these the nations have fixed their covetous and jealous eyes. But though Turkey now possesses them, and others want them, it is nevertheless thought necessary to the tranquility of Europe that Turkey should be maintained in her position, in order to preserve, as it is called, the "balance of power." Her office therefore at present seems to be merely like that of a great and distended shell, which so long as it can be kept from collapsing, keeps at distance belligerent and hostile powers. Therefore the four allied powers of Europe are pledged to sustain the integrity of the Sultan's throne. By them alone it is now maintained, and when they shall withdraw their hands, and leave it to itself, as we believe they will do under the sixth plague, that symbolic river will be clean dried up, Turkey will be no more, and the way will be all open for the nations to rush to the holy land. The kings of the East, the nationalities, powers, and kingdoms lying east of Palestine, will act a conspicuous part in the matter; for Joel says in reference to this scene, Let "the heathen" be wakened and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat. {December 2, 1862 JWe, ARSH 5.6}
Why The king of South is not Atheism:
According to the words of the prophet, then, a little before the year 1798 some power of satanic origin and character would rise to make war upon the Bible. And in the land where the testimony of God's two witnesses should thus be silenced, there would be manifest the atheism of the Pharaoh and the licentiousness of Sodom. . . . This prophecy has received a most exact and striking fulfillment in the history of France. DURING THE REVOLUTION, IN 1793, "the world for the first time heard an assembly of men, born and educated in civilization, and assuming the right to govern one of the finest of the European nations, uplift their united voice to deny the most solemn truth which man's soul receives, and renounce unanimously the belief and worship of a Deity. . . The atheistical power that ruled in France during the Revolution and the Reign of Terror, did wage such a war against God and His holy word as the world had never witnessed. . . . It was in 1793 that the decrees which abolished the Christian religion and set aside the Bible passed the French Assembly. THREE YEARS AND A HALF LATER A RESOLUTION RESCINDING THESE DECREES, THUS GRANTING TOLERATION TO THE SCRIPTURES, was adopted by the same body. The world stood aghast at the enormity of guilt which had resulted from a rejection of the Sacred Oracles, and men recognized the necessity of faith in God and His word as the foundation of virtue and morality.
-The Great Controversy, p. 269-287
1793 + THREE YEARS AND A HALF LATER = 1796
RELIGION ESTABLISHED AGAIN :
In 18th-century France, ninety-five percent of the population were adherents of the Catholic Church; most of the rest were Protestant Huguenots, who, although greatly outnumbered by the Catholics, nonetheless retained powerful positions in French local governments. . . . The dechristianisation of France reached its zenith around the middle of 1794 with the fall of Robespierre. By early 1795 a return to some form of religion-based faith was beginning to take shape and a law passed on February 21, 1795 legalized public worship, albeit with strict limitations.
-(tinyurl.com/ytdcj6).
1904 Sabbath School quarterly on book of Daniel taught the Eastern Question. This is years after James White died and 1 yr after Uriah Smith died. Only Sr.White was alive amongst the three. Surely the truth on the matter should have been taught at this time.
Pr. Hughes , are you able to access this SS quarterly of 1904 3rd quarter?
Josiah Litch, in 1838, 1841 and 1842, clearly spelled out in publications just who the kings of the north and south were:
“The king of the south shall push at him.” At whom? The answer is, at the subject of prophecy in the preceding verses-the revolutionary government of France. That power is clearly antecedent to “him,” in this verse. “The king of the south.” And who is the king of the south? The answer is given in the exposition of the first six verses of the chapter, which the reader can examine. It is clearly the government of Egypt. I do not know that there is a dissenting voice to the application of this term to Egypt in the former part of this chapter; nor can I see any good reason why there should be in the latter part, as long as it was literally fulfilled in Egypt. That a collision did actually take place between the French and Egypt is notorious. In the winter of 1798, after Bonaparte’s return from his Italian campaign, he was appointed by the directory, commander-in-chief of the foreign armies of the French nation; and in that character he left France, on the morning of May 20th, 1798, with a fleet “of thirteen ships of the line, and fourteen frigates, and four hundred transports. They carried 40,000 picked soldiers and officers.” On the 1st of July they reached the coast of Egypt, and landed the army about a mile and a half from Alexandria. “Shall push.” The weakness of this term signifies only a feeble and ineffectual resistance. The contrast is the more remarkable when compared with the strength of the next clause-“The king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind;”-shall come with an overwhelming power. . . . “Like a whirlwind.” The king of the north, it is universally acknowledged, signifies in this chapter, Syria, as being the northern division of the empire of Alexander the Great.
Josiah Litch, Prophetic Expositions, vol. 2, pp.99-102 [1842]
It may be said that there is a general agreement upon this subject, and that all eyes are turned toward the war now in progress between Turkey and Russia as the fulfillment of that portion of prophecy which will give great confirmation of faith in the soon loud cry and close of our message.
James White, Review and Herald, November 29, 1877, p. 172.
James white says there was a general consensus on the king of the north being turkey!!!!
Amen brother 144mile !!!!!!!!
Happy Sabbath Pastor Bill and Truth Triuphant!
Happy Sabbath Gina!
Dear Pr. Hughes, what is the postion of A.T Jones and E.J Waggoner on the Daniel 11 issue?
Ive read A.T Jones' pamphlet with the title The Eastern question. This is foud in the EGW estate with the code EQ.
Have you seen this pamphlet pastor?
What's your view on what Jones says in that pamphlet?
@@leakeywekesa3078 exactly 💯
Sorry for your Loss Pastor Bill I have heard Jesse ask questions many times.Prayer for family!
THANKYOU FOR TRUTH BLESSINGS
I am so glad that so many people can see the error in this presentation.
Louis Were was one of the most dangerous men ever involved in Adventism. Along with Kellogg and Leroy Froom.
Sharing a few quotes I cherish on this topic.
Uriah Smith states in D&R, "The attempt which some make to bring in the papacy here is so evidently wide of the mark that it need not be considered." p. 294.
Ellen White called Uriah Smith's presentation on Daniel 11:45 "TRUTH". “Sunday forenoon Elder Smith spoke upon the ‘Eastern Question’ [Daniel 11:45]. Many had listened to the TRUTH, and the day of final reckoning will reveal the results of that day’s meeting.” {Letter 10a, 1877}
“Everything that can be done should be done to circulate Thoughts on Daniel and Revelation. I know of no other book that can take the place of this one. It is God's helping hand.” MS, 76, 1901.
“The books Daniel and Revelation and The Great Controversy are the books which above all others should be in circulation now. Give them to the people. LIGHT and TRUTH they must have.” Ms29-1890.28
"The interest in [the book] Daniel and the Revelation is to continue as long as probationary time shall last. God used the author of this book as a channel through which to communicate light to direct minds to the truth. Shall we not appreciate this light, which points us to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, our King?” {Ms174-1899.10}
Thank you for providing this information. Remember that Uriah Smith taught that the King of the North was the papacy for many years, so we need to discover when he switched his view to Turkey and then go back and confirm that the EGW quotes used are referencing his teaching on the KoN being the papacy or the KoN being Turkey
I will look into this. May truth win in the end. It's my understanding that the first editions of Daniel and the Revelation included this. I don't think his view changes until the 1880s or 1890s. We will need to confirm this and then review the quotes in question
@@truthtriumphantministries8461 It may be said that there is a general agreement upon this subject, and that all eyes are turned toward the war now in progress between Turkey and Russia as the fulfillment of that portion of prophecy which will give great confirmation of faith in the soon loud cry and close of our message.
James White, Review and Herald, November 29, 1877, p. 172.
James white says there was a general consensus on the king of the north being turkey!!!!
God alone can make the impression and give the increase. He alone can water the seed that has been sown. I pray to the Lord that the labor put forth may not be in vain. Many seem to feel deeply. We feel to thank and praise God that this large number could have a chance to hear the truth for themselves. Dr. Caro is now speaking at five o’clock p.m. upon the health question. Elder Daniells speaks this evening upon the Eastern Question. May the Lord give His Holy Spirit to inspire the hearts to make the truth plain. {Ms189-1898} What truths was she talking about. From the context it looks like it has to be on the "Eastern Question."
Who is the Third Woe ? The First 2 were from the Ottoman Empire.
Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, THE THIRD WOE COMETH QUICKLY
The first four trumpets are GOD’S JUDGMENTS ON IMPERIAL ROME or pagan Rome REPRESENTED BY the legs. The downfall of the Roman Empire was wrought by the barbarians. Who swept over Western Rome and ended the dominance of that empire. The three horns that were plucked up were the Heruli, the Vandals, and
the Ostrogoths. No division could take place, or at least none is said to have taken place, till the weakening element of the clay was introduced; and we do not find this till the feet and toes. Rome accepting the Christian faith mingled with paganism. A little horn came up, and, thrust aside three of its fellows. Daniel 7:24 says "And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings."
THE LAST THREE ARE GOD’S JUDGMENTS ON APOSTATE CHRISTIAN ROME or Papal Rome REPRESENTED by the feet. The Saracens and The Ottoman were to hurt and torment Papal Rome while overrunning Eastern Rome While the Ottoman empire made concerted efforts to capture Constantinople. Had the Papal apostasy not been hindered in its early development, the reformation of the East may not have survived.
In the last and the third Woe The Turks shall come to their end. “He shall come to his end,
and none shall help him.” Daniel 11:45. This expression plainly implies that this power has previously received help. And it is a notorious fact that since the fall of the Ottoman supremacy in 1840, the empire has existed only through the sufferance of the great powers of Europe. Without their pledged support, she would not be long able to maintain even a nominal existence; and when that is withdrawn, she must come to the ground.
Under the 3 angels message the stone smites the image upon its feet for it's fornication between the Church and State. The image is dashed in pieces for The enforcement of the mark of the beast. The Papacy, on the other hand, is the power “whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth,
and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming” 2 Thessalonians 2:8
The role the Papacy has of persecuting God’s people as given in Revelation 13 and 17 must not be confused with the role Turkey the King of the North has of signaling to the world what next event follows. “And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain …” (Dan 11:45). “ This movement on the part of Turkey is the signal for the standing up of Michael; that is, it marks this event as next in order” (Uriah Smith, 1882 edition, p. 389).
Amen 🙏 Happy Sabbath 🙂
Happy Sabbath!
In the book Bible readings for the home circles old edition (1915) has a section on the EASTERN question reaching Ottoman Empire to bw the KN in Daniel 11:40-45.
Modern editions ot the book including the one published by Harvestime ministry and shared by truth triumpant removes the entire portion of the eastern question.
Pr. Hughes, can you access the old edition of the BRHC?
Why does that section remain the same when sr.white is alive and is removed only after she's dead?
This presentation blends well with Kody's ongoing series teachings, the one God movement folks indeed hails Uriah Smith as if he was the one who was inspired, just because Uriah Smith wrote that the three horns who were uprooted by the papacy were Arians, so they argue that the sole reason for their annihilation was because they opposed the Trinity doctrine since they believed in the Arian doctrine, and so they claim even Ellen White endorsed Uriah's book an indication that she agreed with everything that Uriah wrote and that's being misguided, uriah was also wrong on the identity of one of the ten horns (tribes) of Rome claiming to be Huns and this brought contention between him and the duo of AT Jones and Waggoner in 1888 alongside the Righteousness by Faith message, in addition to all this expounding from Pr. Bill, it is clear that many have wrongly canonized Uriah as well explained and it's not wrong to say they've been largely deceived by him as if his thoughts or conclusions were final and infallible
Very Well Said!
Thanks pastor for the message. A lot of people indeed idolize some pioneers taking what they said as final.
How can the eastern question be correct? Old Jerusalem is a dark and cursed place - Lt. 44,1894,par. 25 ;RH June 9, 1896,par.4. Can’t be the Glorious Holy Mountain. The Western Question is the event that the end is near.
I am somewhat confused. Is this an open forum or a presentation/monologue? Why are folks both interjecting commentary that is not much more at all than what the presenter is stating or else getting ahead of the presentation? The presenter does so very fine on his own. Why is he periodically interrupted and only to the detriment of the presentation? His own unenthusiastic response to the additional commentary indicates all the more how unnecessary these distractions are.
I personally think Uriah's view makes sense for a lot of reasons not really discussed (I am definitely in the minority in conservative Adventism), though I agree Uriah's book is certainly not infallible. Over the years I have come to the conclusion that it isn't clear enough, and the controversy becomes a complete distraction (pretty much like the whole Godhead thing, though I certainly agree with you on that one!). I have found that it creates division for no gain. If this view is true, I don't see it adding much, as I agree with all the ideas you say, but just use different verses. If Uriah was right, then it doesn't really add much other than the extra waymark of Islamic power taking over Israel and then being hammered by the world powers. Even still, the final waymark is very clearly stated in the 3 angels messages / the Great Controversy, which is the mark of the beast / Sunday Law, etc.
If it were that important, Ellen White would have explicitly detailed it in the great controversy. Uriah made a lot of mistakes in 1888, but he eventually woke up.
IMO pioneer Stephen Haskell explained so well what the significance of Turkey as the final waymark in Daniel 11:45 means to us.
"These angels now hold the winds of strife, waiting for the church of God to prepare for His coming. The sealing angel goes through Jerusalem [the church] to place the seal of the living God on the foreheads of the faithful, and while this work goes forward, Turkey stands as a national guidepost to the world, that men may know what is going on in the sanctuary above." "God's eye is upon His people, and He never leaves himself without a witness in the world. No man knows when Turkey will take its departure from Europe, but when that move is made, earth's history will be short. Then it will be said, 'He that is unjust let him be unjust still, ...and he that is righteous let him be righteous still.' Today is 'the day of preparation...' while the world watches Turkey, let the servant of God watch the movements of his Great High Priest, whose ministry for sin is almost over." (1901 Stephen N Haskell, Story of Daniel the Prophet, p. 248.)
Amen777
hi, sorry for the writing and possible errors but to communicate this I use Google Translator... in the last period through the study of Daniel and Apocalypse I have the feeling that the King of the North and King of the South are similar to the feet of Iron and Clay, where the North and Clay are complementary (we think that Babylon was made of clay bricks) and the South and Iron are equally complementary, therefore religious/spiritual power on one side and political/temporal power on the other.... I think Dante too Alighieri, changing the story of the clay statue of Daniel/old man a little, had intuited this with all its limitations....hello and thank you for your sermons.
Happy Saturday, I need to understand from you if I am understanding Revelation 17:9-11 correctly, I ask you because you are more structured than me and think more carefully than myself.... I hope this message doesn't bother you/ thought/advice....what are these 8 kings of the beast in its last stage in Revelation 17? Being precisely at its last phase, the angel describes the last process before its final fulfillment... looking at the statue of Daniel in chapter two we have 6 elements, but I noticed that we mistakenly count the feet of clay and iron as a single element and here lies the "error".... as I wrote to you yesterday I am convinced that these represent two kings, north and south, spiritual/religious power and temporal/political/atheistic power, and as Daniel says inspired by God they will never unite except only at the end for one hour (Revelation 12) at the fulfillment of human history....so we have 6 kings, Babylon, Medio-Persia, Greece, pagan Rome, papal Rome and European political power which has various dominions in turn among the European states, therefore six kings....as already said we are in the final part of history and therefore in the last phase of the life of the beast before its last final transphoation, and therefore five kings have fallen, Babylon, Middle -Persia, Greece, pagan Rome, papal Rome (he suffered the mortal wound), only the king of the South remains (in that historical period France 1798), one is.... the other who has not yet come and will have to last a short time is the beast that rises from the earth, the United States, the 7th King... in my opinion the United States cannot be excluded from the completion of the last phase of the beast because it will be them as Ellen White says and Revelation 13 a healing the wounded head, the papacy, as is currently happening...8th king, who was one of the 7 is precisely the institution of the image of the papacy supported by Protestantism, spiritualism and political power....this analysis of the verses can it have any basis for you? Thank you and see you soon and happy Shabbat, Nunzio
Remember the King of the North and the King of the South are directly related to the prophecies in Daniel 8, that is where we need to look to find the most accurate parallels
@@truthtriumphantministries8461 thank you for your answer....maybe from my question it seemed that I was questioning whether the little horn was papal Rome, but I thought it was implied, like it is the King of the North...sometimes being too synthetic can make misunderstandings arise....I live here in Italy and I am well convinced that all roads lead to Rome, I only think of the Calvi case (God's bankers) where Sindona dies in prison poisoned, Calvi under the bridge of the Black Friars in London, Licio Gelli a few years in prison and Marcinkus not even a day in prison, I think we understand from this where the real power is.... Italy is the country with the most unsolved mysteries in the world (the USA competes with it, I know ) and we understand why... the commemoration of the massacre of judges Falcone and Borsellino ended a few days ago and it wasn't four shepherds who killed them, they had understood who was really behind the Italian crime and not only that, but still here we're talking about the Mafia....anyway, going back to what I wrote, my intent was and is to provide as much clarity as possible, find a line of understanding that avoids going astray, because as Ellen White herself says, in whom I believe firmly, when the books of Daniel and Apocalypse are better understood, the remnant of the people of God will be able to find that union that is currently missing due to the too many controversies that will still exist until the omega shaking/apostasy... thanks again for your sermons which they helped me and continue to help me continue my knowledge of the Bible and therefore of the Lord....see you soon...
I think I have found the final square, I hope with the help of God and the Holy Spirit....apocalypse 17:9-11 wants to tell us, the five kings are Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, pagan Rome, Papal Rome ( clay), the sixth is Europe (iron/temporal power) and the 7th will be Papal Rome again when it heals the wound....when it is said that it is an 8th king it is because it is linked to Daniel 7 and the little horn which appears after the 10 horns and cuts down three of them, which is why he is the 8th king and one of the seven (the seven heads in the history of human governments)....bye and see you soon, Nunzio
There are persons ready to catch up every new idea. The prophecies of Daniel and the Revelation are misinterpreted. These persons do not consider that the truth has been set forth at the appointed time by the very men whom God was leading to do this special work. These men followed on step by step in the very fulfillment of prophecy, and those who have not had a personal experience in this work, are to take the Word of God and believe on “their word” who have been led by the Lord in the proclamation of the first, second, and third angelsʼ messages. Selected Messages bk 2 pg 111
Gardening is good .. do an evening class in motor repair.
What do you say about A . T . Jones on his book Mashalling of the Nations? This is what he has to say on the subject under discussion......
Now, the last verse of the eleventh chapter of Daniel, speaking of the king of the North, the power controlling the territory of which Constantinople is the center, says, "And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him."
For fifty years or more the world has been expecting the end of Turkey to come. The existence of the Turkish nation has been all this time, and is to-day, due to the common consent of the great powers of Europe. Turkey exists to-day as a power solely by the agreement of Russia, Britain, Germany, and other powers of Western Europe. MON 31.1 - MON 31.2
Now this eleventh chapter of Daniel is a sketch of the history from the beginning of the reign of Darius the Mede until the time of the setting up of the kingdom of God, as is shown by the words of the last verses of the eleventh chapter and the first few verses of the twelfth. It reaches from the first year of Darius the Mede until the resurrection of the dead and the end of the world. The first part of the twelfth chapter reads:-
"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time; and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise "teachers," margin shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end." Daniel 12:1-4. MON 28.3 - MON 29.1
So, when we come to the fortieth verse of the eleventh of Daniel, we are not reading of affairs away back in the days of the empire of Greece, nor of the affairs of Rome, but of affairs down here at "the time of the end," as mentioned in the thirty-fifth verse. Other verses also show the same thing. And bear in mind that the king of the South is always in Egypt, and the king of the North is always the power occupying the territory of which Constantinople is the center. And all the world knows that since 1453 A. D., the territory of which Constantinople is the center, has been held and ruled by the Turks. Then the king of the North at the time of the end is the Turkish dominion. MON 30.3
Why do you take the first 22 verses as literal and from verses 23-45 as spiritual? That is uncalled for.
I wouldn't say its a literal to spiritual issue but a specific history to a spiritual history of the King of the South then King of the North. Daniel 8 only identifies the little horn which is clearly Pagan Rome and then Papal Rome (both in the symbol of the horn) based on the timeline and characteristics. Daniel 11 is the explanation of Daniel 8 ending in the close of the 2300 year prophecy (this encompasses Pagan and Papal Rome again). There are other clues in the chapter as well: the signposts point us to Julius Caeser corrupting the daughter of women, the Abomination of Desolation, the time of the end (1798)--these are specific time-markers which help us to remain in perspective. Rolling from "the time of the end" (1798) the King of the South "pushes" at the King of the North. If you are looking at Turkey you will find no historical reference for this event. If you understand the King of the South (Spiritual Egypt--Atheism according to the GC) pushes at the King of the North (not turkey but Rome)--perfect harmony. Atheistic France overthrew the papacy in 1798 delivering a deadly wound. There's more too: If we look at the spiritual understanding of the KoN, we see that it more closely aligns with Pope for several reasons. God the Father is the true KoN (Lucifer wants to rule from the sides of the north [Is. 14]; when lambs were slain they were slain on the north-side of the altar 'before the LORD" [see Leviticus]; even in Freemasonry the 'north' side is the place of darkness---to a group that prides itself on being "illuminated" its obvious that its because God is toward the north].
Pastor Bill i agree with you. Its the same thing with the feet of iron&clay in chapter 2. Some cant see the papacy in chapter 2 but it is this composite that the Little Horn lines up with. Yet when we go to Revelation 13 its recognized. As you read from James White, it is the same thing throughout 2, 7, 8, 11 but for the absence of the head of gold paralell in the later chapters. James White doesnt use the term feet of iron&clay but its not like we dont know that its on the image. I heard Conrad Vine said something when they were having the Daniel 11 seminar that when we understand present truth we should teach it in connection with the clarity that it now gives us on what wasnt clear before, not as if we are still in darkness. Same with the heads in Rev.17.
Pastor Bill,
"The interest in Daniel and the Revelation is to continue as long as probationary time shall last. God used the author of this book (Uriah Smith) as a channel through which to communicate light to direct minds to the truth. Shall we not appreciate this light, which points us to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, our King." 1 MR 63.
Pastor Bill, where is the interest in D&R today? It doesn't exist except for those who still believe that Turkey is the king of the north.
Also, when the Bible says "north" it means "north" not northwest. I have a globe, the king of the south being Egypt, directly north of there is Turkey. NW is Rome
Amen Pastor Bill. You are right on point. It's very simple to see Uriah Smith's errors when you compare his exposition of Daniel's prophecy with history of those Nations. Turkey I think it's mentioned once in the Bible thus in the book of Revelation. Turkey is not King of the North and was never one. Turkey never ever ruled the world like what Babylon, Medo-persia, Greece, Rome and Papal Rome did
The enemy of souls will produce anything to mislead and deceive our minds - anything to take the emphasis and focus off the Antichrist power and its correct identification and position in prophecy. Just as with the perversion of Truth through preterism and futurism, the historical falsehood of Antiochus Epiphanes, and any other deception he can conjure up and spread through his agents in this world, his work is to present and promote the Papacy in glowing and virtuous appearance. No matter what any person may claim or say, accurate Bible (and SOP) study is our only safeguard.
Uriah even told Willie White to fix his book, Daniel and Revelation and remove the minor errors. I have to find that letter.
What about S.N. Haskell what did he say on his book The story of Daniel the Prophet on the subject under discussion?........
At the time of the end (1798) the kings of the north and the south again contended. From the founding of Constantinople by Constantine in 330, the power which held that city had maintained control of the Mediterranean, for Constantinople is recognized by all nations as the key to both Asia and Europe. In the time of the end, history will again center about this city. SDP 245.3
In 1453, however, Constantinople was captured, and has since remained in the hands of the Turks, the boldest advocates of the doctrine of Mohammed. As the founding of Constantinople is a guidepost in history, so the capture of that city in 1453 is another landmark SDP 246.1
God's eye is upon his people, and he never leaves himself without a witness in the world. No man knows when Turkey will take its departure from Europe, but when that move is made, earth's history will be short. Then it will be said, "He that is unjust let him be unjust still, ...and he that is righteous let him be righteous still." To-day is "the day of preparation." The fate of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome is recorded for the edification Margin of the nations of to-day, and the lessons taught by all center in the events just before us. While the world watches Turkey, let the servant of God watch the movements of his great High Priest, whose ministry for sin is almost over. SDP 248.2
What about the fact that the King of the South pushes at the King of the North at the time of the end (1798), what is that fulfillment? Also, what is the fulfillment of the King of the North returning like a whirlwind with many ship and Eqypt shall not escape? Is your view aligned with Scripture?
This application of the prophecy calls for a conflict to spring up between Egypt and France, and Turkey and France, in 1798, which year, as we have seen, marked the beginning of the time of the end; and if history testifies that such a triangular war did break out in that year, it will be conclusive proof of the correctness of the application.
We inquire, therefore, Is it a fact that at the time of the end, Egypt did "push," or make a comparatively feeble resistance, while Turkey did come like a resistless "whirlwind," against "him," that is, the government of France? We have already produced some evidence that the time of the end commenced in 1798; and no reader of history need be informed that in that very year a state of open hostility between France and Egypt was inaugurated. DAR 273.4 - DAR 273.5@@truthtriumphantministries8461
Was the coming of the king of the north, or Turkey, like the whirlwind in comparison with the pushing of Egypt? Napoleon had crushed the armies of Egypt; he essayed to do the same thing with the armies of the sultan, who were menacing an attack from the side of Asia. Feb. 27, 1799, with 18,000 men, he commenced his march from Cairo to Syria. He first took the fort of El-Arish, in the desert, then Jaffa (the Joppa of the Bible), conquered the inhabitants of Naplous at Zeta, and was again victorious at Jafet. Meanwhile, a strong body of Turks had intrenched themselves at St. Jean d'Acre, while swarms of Mussulmans gathered in the mountains of Samaria, ready to swoop down upon the French when they should besiege Acre. Sir Sidney Smith at the same time appeared before St. Jean d'Acre with two English ships, reinforced the Turkish garrison of that place, and captured the apparatus for the siege, which Napoleon had sent across by sea from Alexandria. A Turkish fleet soon appeared in the offing, which, with the Russian and English vessels then co-operating with them, constituted the "many ships" of the king of the north DAR 276.1
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Let us be honest with ourselves we not idolizing the book Thoughts on Daniel and Revelation we are putting it in the level where the Spirit of Prophecy puts it....
“God desires the light found in the books of Daniel and Revelation to be presented in clear lines. It is painful to think of the many cheap theories picked up and presented to the people by ignorant, unprepared teachers. Those who present their human tests and the nonsensical ideas they have concocted in their own minds, show the character of the goods in their treasure house. They have laid in store shoddy material. Their great desire is to make a sensation” (Ellen G White, 1MR 62.3).
“Those who are preparing to enter the ministry, who desire to become successful students of the prophecies, will find Daniel and the Revelation an invaluable help. They need to understand this book. It speaks of past, present, and future, laying out the path so plainly that none need err therein. Those who will diligently study this book will have no relish for the cheap sentiments presented by those who have a burning desire to get out something new and strange to present to the flock of God. The rebuke of God is upon all such teachers. They need that one teach them what is meant by godliness and truth. The great, essential questions which God would have presented to the people are found in Daniel and the Revelation. There is found solid, eternal truth for this time. Everyone needs the light and information it contains” (Ellen G White, 1MR 61.2).
@@samkelondlovu887 I see your perspective. Another question: Is Turkey part of the prophecies mentioned in Daniel 8?
5:38-6:55
Pastor Bill Hughes said:
“Well, the facts are these: from the 1840s until the 1870s, Millerite prophetic expositors held to the belief that the final king of the north in Daniel 11 was the papacy and they held that position for a good reason.”
Can Hughes substantiate his own claim? I mean: can he give evidences that ALL Millerite prophetic expositors were unanimous in holding to the belief that the final king of the north in Daniel 11 was the papacy? Did he himself study the original documents (sermones, articles etc.) and come to his conclusion? Or, does he simply regurgitate the Louis F. Were’s following statement: «The godly pioneers of the Advent Movement, from their consecrated study of the Word of God, came to the conclusion that the power referred to in the closing verses of Daniel 11 was the Papacy.» (Louis F. Were, «The King of the North at Jerusalem», p.4)?
Does William Miller qualify for a Millerite prophetic expositor? Definitly, he does. In his public lectures, he expounded the Bible prophecies. Joshua V. Himes in 1842 in “The Midnight Cry!” published Miller’s lectures “EVIDENCE, FROM SCRIPTDRE AND HISTORY, OF THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST ABOUT THE YEAR 1843” (vol. 1, from No. 13 to No. 26; also printed as a book in 1842 by Himes). In his 6th lecture (“The Midnight Cry!” Dec. 10, 1842, p. 4) Miller said: “We have now arrived to the end of the third division of the angel's history ; for the next verse tells us, "and at the time of the end,'' meaning the end of his power to tread on the church by his civil authority, or reign over the kings of the earth, and to dispose of lands for gain. I have brought you down, my kind hearer, through a long prophetic history of more than 2200 vears and landed you at the year A. D. 1798, when the Pope of Rome lost his civil power. In the beginning of the year 1798, on the 15th of February, a French gencral Berthier, entered Rome with a French army without resistance, deposed the Pope, abolished the Papal government, and erected the republic of Italy. The Pope, being taken prisoner, was carried a prisoner by them first to Sienna in Tuscany, from thence to Florence, afterwards to Grenoble, and then to Valence, in France, where he died on the 19th of August, 1799); since which time the Pope of Rome has exercised no more of his former power over any of the kings in Europe, or the Protestant church. We shall now close our lecture on this history for the present, reserving the remainder of Gabriel's interesting history for another lecture.”
In the 7th lecture he said: “We therefore begin at the 40th verse of the 11th chapter of Daniel, " and at the time of the end " of the papal civil power. Now, another person has obtained this civil power ; this was Bonaparte, the ruler of the French nation. This year of which we are now treating was the very year that the French destroyed the power of the pope, and Bonaparte began his extraordinary career in conquest and authority … At this time, then, our prophecy begins, and Bonaparte is the person designated by the pronouns he and him in the prophecy : "And, at the time of the end, shall the king of the south push at him ; and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships." This is a description of an alliance entered into by the king of Sardinia, Italy and Spain, in the south, and Great Britain, in the north, for six years.” (ibid).
It is clear that Miller, the LEADING Millerite preacher, thought that the king of the north in Dan. 11:40 was Great Britain and the king of the South was the ruler of Sardinia, Italy and Spain. He also thought that the glorious land is Italy: “"He shall enter also into the glorious land," (or land of delight, as it might have been translated.) This, I have no doubt, means Italy. Bonaparte fought some of his most brilliant battles in this delightsome country.” (“The Midnight Cry!” Dec. 12, 1842, p. 2)
Even this fact is enough to refute the Hughes’ claim. But I will add more. [to be continued in the next comment …]
It seems that the position that the Pope in 1798 lost his civil power was the standard Millerite position. In “The Midnight Cry!” (Nov. 18, 1842, p. 4) Joshua V. Himes published “DIAGRAM OF DANIEL'S VISIONS” explained by C. French who wrote: “Here commences the history of the fourth or Roman kingdom. Dan. vii. 7, 8, as a persecuting power under its different forms; 1st. Pagan Rome, 666 years. 2d. Christian Rome, or the ten kings, who have their power one hour with the beast, Rev. xvii. 12, which we shall prove is 30 years. 3d. Papal Rome, or the union of the civil and ecclesiastical powers of Rome, to the time of the end, or taking away of the civil power, 1260 years. Dan. vii. 25, xii. 7 ; Rev. xi. 2, xiii. 5. 4th. From the taking away the civil power to the final destruction of Daniel's fourth kingdom, with the brightness of the coming of Christ, 2 Thess. ii. 8, a period of 45 years. … A. D. 1798, the pope of Rome lost his civil pfnver. On the fifteenth of February, Berthier, a French general, entered Rome with a French army, deposed the pope, abolished the papal government, and erected the republic of Italy. The pope was taken prisoner, was carried by them a prisoner first to Lienna in Titscany, from thence to Florence, afterwards to Grenoble, then to Valence, in France, where he died, on the nineteenth of August, 1799 ; since which time the pope of Rome has exercised no power over any of the kings in Europe, or the Protestant church. We are now brought to g, the commencement of the time of the end, (see Dan. xii. 9,) or taking away of the civil power of the pope. Now from e h = 1335 days take eg =1290 and we have gh = 45 years, or lime of the end from the taking away of the civil power to the resurrection.”.
In Review and Herald, Jan. 20, 1853 (vol. 3, No 18, p. 142) J. S. White as the editor published Otis Nichols’ article “Papacy and France” in which it is written: “England stands at the head of the Protestants in Europe, "the king of the north," France now stands as the head of the Papal power, " the king of the south," and Russia is the power of the Greek church in the east,-the three divided parts of the great city, Babylon. Rev. xvi, 19. … At the time of the end shall the king of the south [France] push at him." [The Papal power.] Verse 40. This refers to the reversion of the Papal authority to France by Napoleon I. " The time of the end" applies to the end of the 1260 years of the Papal rule, the "time appointed." Verse 35. "And the king of the north [England] shall come against him [Napoleon or France] like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen." Verse 40. This was literally accomplished by England and their allies under the Duke of Wellington, by whom Napoleon was made a prisoner to England. … Verse 44, has been noticed; it remains to be fulfilled. "And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas, in the glorious holy mountain," or, as it is in the margin, "goodly mountain of delight." Verse 45. This, no doubt, means Italy, which is called the most delightsome country in the world. It is a long promontory of more than six hundred miles, extending between the seas, the gulf of Venice, and the Mediterranean. The tabernacle of his palace may refer to Rome as the seat, or tribunal of the little horn, or it may refer to Italy, while under the French empire, when Bonaparte was crowned the king.”
So, the Millerite-Adventist Otis Nichols believed, like Miller, that the king of the north was England and the glorious land was Italy.
In Review and Herald, Aug. 24, 1869 (!) J. N. Andrews as the editor published J. N. Loughborough’s article “Judgement” in which its author wrote in the footnote (p. 67): “The charge is made by some that this time was sealed up, and so we have nothing to do with it. It was only sealed till "the time of the end." There are two events given to mark the time of the end. In Dan. xi, 35, we learn that the people of God were to fall by the hand of the Papal power, till the time of the end. But none have fallen by the hand of that power since A. D. 1798. In verse 40 of chap, xi, we read of this power, that, " At the time of the end the king of the South shall push at him, and the king of the North shall come against him." In 1798 this was literally accomplished. France pushed at the Papacy, and England pushed against France. We are now in the TIME of THE END.”
It is clear that, in essence, Loughborough held to the same view as W. Miller and O. Nichols did.
Hiram Edson, in his “The Time of the End; Its Beginning, Progressive Events, and Final Termination” (Auburn,1849, p.10) wrote: “But who is this king of the north? I answer Russia. This king of the north is to plant the tabernacle of his palace in the glorious holy mountain, and there comes to his end and none to help him”.
In “Bible Examiner” (December 1, 1854, p. 312,313) the editor George Storrs published the article “Discordant Opinions” in which it is stated:
"We do not believe that Russia is "the king of the north." It is our opinion that any power that reigns over Syriais-for the time being-"the king of the north," spoken of Daniel xi; hence that Turkish Dynasty is now [1854] that power. If Russia, Austria, England, or France should become possessed of supreme power over Syria, then it-which ever it might be-would then become the king of the north. Till then none but the Turkish Dynasty occupies that position, in our opinion. Our views of Russia, Turkey, and France are known to our readers. No arguments, nor ridicule, that has yet appeared, has in the least shaken our mind; yet we do not affirm that we are right; events may convince us that we are wrong in this matter. We have no theory at stake, and shall feel, we think, no mortification to find we are-just what we believe all others to be-fallible."
From this it is clear that the “Bible Examiner” publishers held to the view that the king of the north was the Turkish Dynasty. And their opinion was contrary to the Edson’s view. Interestingly enough, J. S. White partially reprinted this article in Review and Herald, December 12, 1854, p. 134. By doing so, he virtually acknowledged that there was the difference of opiniones on the subject of the king of the north in Dan.11:40-45 in 1854 among Millerite preachers.
In his “Address To The Public, And Especially The Clergy, on The Kingdom Near Approach of the Glorious, Everlasting Kingdom of God on Earth” (Boston, J. V. Himes, 1842, pp. 98, 100) Josiah Litch wrote: “ "The time of the end" is a period to which frequent allusion has been made, and now we are brought down to the period where it is introduced. It has before been stated, that " the time of the end" is from the fall of Popery, 1798, to the end itself. The king of the South, we have also seen in the preceding remarks, is Egypt, and the king of the North, is Syria. "Him," in the 40th verse, is the atheistical government of France. … Thus "the king of the North," Syria, came " against him like a whirlwind," with "horsemen," with "chariots," or wheeled artillery, and with many ships; two British ships, and a Turkish fleet.”
So, Litch thought that the king of the north is Syria.
Yes, people, Ellen White endorsed Smith a bit in that 1884 quote on the Eastern question. But that is before 1888. When 1888 came and the law of God began to shine, Smith wanted to let pork abstinence be based on medical reasons alone, instead of on moral and medical! Smith is just not trustworhy in the end, so, Bill Huges is right. The most trustworthy pioneer seems to be S.N. Haskell, by far.