Yeah except you also excluded the Europeans who beat the Americans to get twin jet-engine airliners into service as the French had the Caravelle and the British had the 1-11
@@asif9700 No idea where you are coming from (my ten cents: US), but here in Europe at least some streaming offers are being geo-blocked because of the rights of broadcasting certain movies, events and so on. And, by the way, this often depends on the owners of these broadcasting rights, often enough big American companies, who obviously remember the olde latin sayin': Divide et impera - sell the broadcasting rights separately to each and every European contry and the hinder them broadcasting freely.
"How DC-9: Douglas change Air Travel forever?"... ... aaaahh killing more people that any other aircraft in the world🥺?? ..+.. wait is the DC-9 or the DC-10 the one that hold that disastrous record 🤔?? .+.
My dad was an engineer at Douglas specializing in landing gear stress analysis (using a slide rule, but that's a different story.) He was on the DC-9 (and by extension the MD-xyz) project from the time before it came off the drawing board until long after the merger. Even after it was out of production, he still worked on it. In those days you used to keep analyzing failures to support the operator even if no new aircraft are being built. Long story short, he spent the vast majority of a 40-year career working on that one design and its variants. Thanks for the good memories.
@@gendaminoru3195 No. He was pretty handy, but he really was a stress engineer first and foremost. He did have a go bag with calipers and specialized measuring tools, so he could fly in and show the operator how their maintenance procedures caused failures, such as wheels coming off, etc. (Not pointing any fingers Hawaiian Airlines.)
@@msromike123 Some data can only be collected after time has done a job on the component, the more quality data the better the estimate of mean time between failure. Predictive maintenance was my bag and it was very interesting but also swiss cheese in a can of worms. I raise my beer to your Dad and to those who have gone before.
I'm 75yrs old..retired with a 47yr career with the airlines..worked the ground as a CSA(customer service agent)...we had DC3's and Convair 580's to start...when we got our first DC9's we were so ezcited and proud..what beatiful planes...loved working them. Flew to a lot of northern Michigan cities and when the weather got really bad(snowstorms)..those trustee old Convairs always seem to get in...loved those 2 aircraft..miss those early days..many blessed memories and life lessons..I thank God he granted me the pleasure of those experiences😊❤
Just prior to Eastern closing it's doors I booked a flight from Miami to Atlanta to visit my girlfriend. The DC-9 we flew was stopping in West Palm Beach (we picked up 18 more passengers) before continuing on to Atlanta. Well, on the Miami to Palm Beach leg I was the ONLY PASSENGER! I couldn't believe it. What added another layer of humor to the whole thing was that one of the flight attendants quizzed me on the emergency procedures instead of briefing them (asked me questions like.... where are the nearest exits, etc). She and I were laughing as she asked the questions. Its such an amazing memory that it brings a smile to my face whenever I tell the story. Love the channel.
I almost did the same - but reckon I can better your story as I was very nearly refused entry to the U.S. by immigration for the lack of a visa! My then boss had been assured we could fly visaless ( which was true then ) but to do so we needed booked return tickets - but in a typical flight of skinflinting - followed another tip to fly to NYC and pick up an internal commuter. If I hadn't known a bit about NFL and had the good fortune to meet an official the spitting image of N.Y. Giant's Lawrence Taylor - "how about that! A Brit that follows football!" He let me use his phone to buy onward tickets to Orlando from TWA whose terminal was next door and we could get there without tainting non airside soil. ( Funnily enough, in Florida they just stamped our passports.) Our D.C.9 was the last flight of the evening and was practically empty - 9 passengers with 14 crew! Lucky for me - long before security doors and after a chat with the chief trolly dolly about our route - I spent most of the trip up in the pointy end - I was even asked "are you familiar" which I still dine out on! And when I told the the crew that I'd flown a Tiger Moth - it was them that were overawed "gee! that's real flying." Mind you, a couple of days later we saw STS26 Discovery launch from the Cape so the whole trip was rather spiffing.
I became a flight attendant for American Eagle out of DFW when I was just 19 years old (you had to be at least 19 although most airlines have a minimum age of 20) and I was usually on the ATR 72 during the dark Roselawn period. I live in Dallas and have always lived just north of downtown close to Love Field so when a company called Legend Airlines announced that it was the new Dallas Airline flying only out of Love Field instead of DFW, with a small fleet of 3 DC-9 jets I jumped at the chance and was the 3rd Flight Attendant out of about 100 finally hired . I fell in love with the DC-9 and although they were not necessarily new, ours were completely stripped of the original cabin configuration and became 2/2 with 64 seats instead of 2/3 with 90-100 seats. The concept was an all first class airline with leather recliner seats, one of the first airlines with TV’s in every seat back, designer uniforms, full inflight 3 course meal service with complimentary champagne and wine. I always bid the number 3 position so I could be in a forward jump-seat with the number 1 F/A rather than having to sit in the aft jump-seat (number 2 position) because of the noise of the engines and the terrible thought that if we had to evacuate the aircraft I’d have to use the aft cone exit that we used only for emergencies not for boarding or deplaning. I fell in love with the DC-9 and we were probably the last company that flew them exclusively from DAL to LAX, LAS, Washington DC, and LGA. Great memories of great equipment that we will probably never use commercially again.
I am retired aircraft engineer in Australia, the DC-9 was my first jet powered a/c I was licensed on. Achieved that privilege in 1971. At retirement I have 47 jet endorsements on my licence. The DC-9 is my second best favourite a/c. Great plane, easy to work on, reliable and easy to understand the systems. (except for the electrical crosstie bus system, 11 relays in series that had to operate in the correct order or you would get a crosstie lockout. Only could be rest by an engineer.) My favourite though is the Airbus A320. That is the greatest.
Surprised to hear that the A320 is your favourite. Why so? In the airline I worked in, the engineers hated the Airbus models, they preferred Boeing. I think because Airbus wouldn't let them clear a defect if the system still self tested a fault. Whereas Boeing allowed them to easily clear tech log entries by the pilots.
@@ACSFlyingfish Thanks for the reply. The 737 is so dated and costly to maintain. eg. A thrust reverser sync lock check on a 737, 5 maint. qualified personnel are required. 2 in the flt.deck, 1 in the fwd. e&e, 1 in the mid e&e and one in the wheelwell/u/c area. A320, 2 people. If a fault is detected on a 320, the on board maint. fault system (CFDS) will adsvise the engineer of not only the correct maint. procedures, but also the ref. #, revision status and safety procedures required to trouble shoot the problem. I remember when I joined Virgin Australia and was doing my 3 month training course to get my 737-700/800 license, our instructor from Alteon, the Boeing training establishment, told our course that Boeing had the best BITE (Built in test equipment) system going. He was pissed when I told him that Airbus did not use that antiquated system. The a/c could automatically check itself if asked by the engineer. I could go on, but both a/c are great, you just have to remember the 737 is a 1960's a/c. A lot of ground crew could not get their heads around Fly By Wire.An example. After Ansett collapsed in 2002, a number of ex Ansett engineers were taken on by the big Aussie airline. That airline had just started operating A330 a/c. At virgin we had one LAME on duty at all time, the other mob had at least 6/8. One day an A330 had a steering problem reported before landing. BSCU 1& 2 defect. Not only did they contact an off duty, ex Ansett LAME, but asked the Virgin LAME for help as well. (Airbus systems are very much identical between a/c types.) Ended up safely, but the guys who were Boeing transfixed were overcome with the Airbus systems. Today of course that is water under the bridge. Oz continues to have a great safety record. As for the tech log record, all Aussie maint records are on paper, in triplicate. The records are kept on file as long as the a/c remains registered in Oz. To clear a reported defect, the engineer must not only record the procedure used, the AMM chapter/subchapter/ATA ref #/ATA maint procedure number. ie ( An exterior light change for example, 34.40.601.30.) this is regardless of make or model of a/c. I will admit by the the time I retired, the paper work was getting to me. But when I started in 1964, almost all of our Captains were WW11 vets. God bless them.
@@rosssmith6205 Thanks for your detailed reply. I understand your explanation. Tech logs seem pretty much standard with at least 3 copies made in most countries. I was type rated on the classic 737s, McDs, Fokkers, Airbus, DHC, of these I least liked flying the 737s because of the old systems and the perpetual technical issues like leaking brake reservoirs, aircond packs that couldn't produce sufficient pressurization just to name 2 that I recall from the yesteryears.
Oh, come on, the electrical system was simple. Lose a generator and the Crosstie immediately closes and puts its buses on the remaining operating generator, while simultaneously jettisoning the Galley loads. Just two Generator Buses, two engine generators, an APU, ground power (obviously only on the ground), a bunch of TRs for 28Vdc, and a battery to start the APU and operate a tiny set of loads in an emergency. Now the DC-10 was tough, and don't even get me started on the all-electric 787 which can power a small town!
My last flight on a DC-9 was in early 2002, flying Air Canada from YYZ to DCA. As I was boarding, I found myself standing in the doorway and looked up and read the Douglas nameplate that said the airframe had been manufactured in 1968. Have since flown on MD-80s and 90s.
I flew the Air Canada DC-9 on a charter from Toronto to Thunder Bay for our ski team for the Canadian Winter Games, we had the run of the plane it was amazing
I was a ramp agent in Lincoln, NE for TWA from '98-2000. We almost exclusively had the dc-9 md-80 variants 4-6 times a day. These were great planes to work on. We were a remote station and were trained on APU starts, engine starts and engine push-backs. I can still recall going through the APU startup procedure on a cold morning to help make it ready for the flight crew. We also had the best deep cleans on the evening shift. Bins were scrubbed, gum cleaned from carpets and galleys and bathrooms deep cleaned like new condition. The crews thought we brought them a new aircraft in the morning. I miss the days of sitting organizing the sky-mall magazines with new clean safety cards and crossing seat-belts after removing all the pretzel salt from each seat back. I still have my TWA ramp training manual and APU engine start procedure book ready to go.
My grandfather was a chief pilot for Eastern Airlines and got to captain many of the jets in their fleet, all the way up to the venerable L10-11. But he said that the DC-9 was easily his favorite to fly. Like a little "hot rod".
@StefanMochnacki The DC-9-20 Took that principle pretty far though. It had the JT-8D-200 series engine which was intended for the stretched 30-50 series of DC-9, but used on the shorter -20 as well.
I lived 3 miles off the end of the runway in Long Beach California. As they flew directly overhead, the Boeing 727s (PSA airlines) were real screamers, while the DC9 were noticeably less noisy. I did like hearing the newly assembled DC 10s take off. They had a distinctive low whine, and of course provided many jobs to Long Beach.
There's a small museum in the original terminal building at the Long Beach Airport. It shows all kinds of historical events that took place at the Long Beach Airport. Strangely none of the exhibits is about Douglas, which produced all its jet aircraft there. But the "Fly DC Jets" sign still stands!
@@AutonomousNavigator In spite of the admittedly checkered early history of the DC 10, it remains my favorite passenger jet of all time. Nothing was more comfortable for me, more spacious or more accommodating.
In 1979 Douglas had a two page ad in Aviation Week touting "This new baby doesn't scream" and goes on to say how quiet the jet was versus its predecessors.
I still get some 727 flying as private jets to LBG airport near Paris... And man are they loud 😂 They're only outlouded by fighter jets and maybe c17s And the god forsaken Piaggio Avanti 💀
I have a soft spot in my heart for the DC-9 as it was the first jet I piloted. My relationship started as a passenger in 1967 flying on a TWA DC-9 from PIT to STL to attend collage. In 1977 I upgraded from being a 727 Flight Engineer to DC-9 First Officer. What a thrill it was for me as all of my previous experience was flying prop aircraft. The biggest short coming of the DC-9 for me was the lack of ground cooling for the cockpit. On hot days we would open the cockpit windows when taxiing and waiting for takeoff and close the outflow valve (the valve in the back of the plane that controls cabin pressurization by opening and closing) so all the air-conditioned air would flow out of the plane through the cockpit windows. When you did that you had better make sure the outflow valve was open before closing the cockpit windows!! This was the only way to keep cool in the southern cities we served. I only flew the DC-9 for about a year when I moved to the right seat of the 727. After the 727 I few the 757, 767, and ended on the 777 but the DC-9 will always be my first!!
At one time I worked for a computer manufacturer based in Minneapolis.Flying there often involved going to Chicago and riding a DC9. My favourite memory was one time when we arrived somewhere with all the normal gates busy. Parked near a door, some passengers left using the built-in stairs. When it came to leaving the pilot used the thrust reverser to go backwards unassisted and off we went
As a pilot on the DC9 for Air Canada we did the reverse thrust backup off the gate for a short time but the cost savings were cancelled by the FOD (Foreign Object Damage) to the engines over time.
I flew the DC9 as both FO and Captain. I always told my FO, "I am the FMC." Probably my most memorable DC9 experience (among many) was on a flight between MSP and Toronto. Approaching Toronto we were cleared to an NDB to hold on an NDB radial. It was nighttime and we were in the clouds with an 80 knot crosswind to our holding radial. By the time we figured out the correct crosswind heading to maintain the radial, we were cleared out of holding. The DC9 was a very physical airplane to fly. It may have been the first commercial aircraft with an integrated master caution/warning system. It was fun to actually pilot, but exhausting after the fourth or fifth leg. My favorite variant was the -30 with -15 engines. Still can't believe we used reverse thrust (where allowed) to back out of our gates. One other note- it had to have the most complex cockpit window closing mechanism of any aircraft in history.
As a child, my first experience with the DC-9 came as a result, of meeting my sister's Godparents. Her Godfather worked for Northwest Airlines, at the maintenance facility in Minneapolis - St. Paul. He took us aboard a DC-9, and sat me in the cockpit. "Don't touch the landing gear handle!" (as if it wasn't pinned). I also remember going through the engine shop, where I marveled at the clam-shell thrust reverser. In my professional career, I flew many times on DC-9s and it's variants. I can't say it was my favorite airliner, but who can forget those PSA DC-9s with the big smile painted on their fuselage? I also was involved in evaluating proposals for the US Navy P-3 replacement (Long Range Air Anti-submarine Warfare Capable Aircraft, LRAACA), which included a MD-80 variant with unducted fan engines, the P-9,; a designation clearly giving homage to it's DC-9 roots.
I love these videos, because I'm in my late 60s, and grew up transitioning from airliners like the DC-3, DC-7s, Constellations, etc., to the DC-9s, 727s, 737s, and the 707. It was striking (putting it mildly!) to make a flight in a DC-3 at 8000 feet, then switch to a jet, and travel at 30,000 feet, and three times faster.) :)
@Petter, super, super thanks so much for doing this story. For us living in Norway (Bergen), the DC9 and the following MD-8x, MD-9x series was the benchmark of aviation for decades, flying with SAS between Bergen and Oslo. I loved, loved, loved flying the DC9 ❤💙💛 I reckon that insanely steep takeoff angle is unprecedented in any other airplanes. Actually, I even miss the DC9 today 💔🥲
I used to work on dc-9s as a young A&P mechanic, absolutely love them, easy to work on you can reach everything under the wing simple controls easy Avionics, just easy access for everything
I always liked airliners as we went to the airport often to pick up or drop off relatives. Those were the great days of being a kid in the 1960's as you could go to the airport and just watch aircraft land and take off. The staple of airliners I saw at the airport and flying over our house were the 727 and DC-9 series of airliners. This tutorial brought back a lot of great memories of a time when flying was a real treat and seeing airliners was a true thrill for me. Thank you for taking the time to make these tutorials of the various airliners in this series.
I loved the “Dizzy 9.” It once led to me flying part of a trip in first class by pure luck. I was flying from EVV to BOS with a connection in PIT. It was when airlines started experimenting with giving all your boarding passes at your first check-in. The EVV ticket agent asked if I had a seat preference and I asked for an aisle seat forward. She checked her screen and and said you can have 3B. After a further look she said you can have 3B on both flights. When I boarded the plane was a DC-9 and was configured as all one class. Where the story gets interesting is the connection in PIT. It was supposed to be 2 hour connection, which was OK because it gave me time for an unhurried dinner. The weather in Pittsburgh was wretched, with heavy thunderstorms. Planes were delayed both in and outbound. My 1900 departure finally boarded at 2200. When I stepped onto the plane, it turned out to be a 727 with seat 3B in first class. I sat down and the FA said, “would you like something to drink?” I replied, “I wouldn’t mind shaking hands with Jack Daniels.” The head FA kept came forward three times muttering about 93 in the back and 6 in the front. At one point the first class attendant asked to see my boarding pass. Seeing the 3B assignment she asked if I would like another Jack Daniels. Finally the head FA said 93 in the back, 6 in the front, we’ve got our 99, let’s go. So I got to enjoy the flight to BOS in the relative luxury of USAir first class.
Another great and informative video and I loved flying on the DC-9 and the Mad Dogs and 717s but by far my favorite airliner is the Convair 580 which is a Turboprop Conversion of either a CV-340 or CV-440 utilizing a pair of Allison 501d-13 or 501d-13h turboprops with 13’6” Aeroproducts Square Tipped 4 Blade Propellers! This was a very similar engine/prop package used on the Lockheed C-130 (Allison T-56) with the reduction gearbox mounted above the engine as opposed to below and with the engines derated to “only” 3,750 SHP with an additional 800lbs of jet thrust. The Lockheed 188 Electra 2 and P-3 Orion also used the same powerplant. The Convairliners series was an important and influential aircraft in its own way and deserves its own episode on your fantastic channel, several aircraft are still flying and earning their keep including 6 C-131 aircraft that have been “stretched” to produce the Convair 5800!
My dad flew the DC-9, MD-80 and MD-90 in the past. As an 80s airline brat I was lucky enough to sit on the jump seat many times, and even got to fly the DC-9 simulator SAS had in Stockholm. Long live the legendary DC-9 and thanks for the video!
I just collected my 1st pension check for 13 years at Long Beach. Thanks for pointing out how DAC went to great lengths to accomodate customers, keeping systems simple, making planes efficient and efficiently. I rehired in 2003 and stayed another 18 years, and they still ask me to come back. We did NOT ruin Boeing, far from it.
Amen brother. Haters have to pin blame on someone. Convair -> General Dynamics/Douglas -> McDonnell Douglas -> Boeing. Pick a scapegoat, any scapegoat at all. "If it wasn't for the merger Boeing never would have worried about profit as a means of staying in business." LOL If you want to blame anyone for Boeings problems, blame Airbus.
Towards the end of the DC-9’s passenger service in the US, it was a minor hassle for air traffic control. Because it didn’t have GPS or as modern an FMS navigation system, it would not hold course as precisely as newer aircraft. GPS equipped airliners fly a straight line right down the center of an airway; older aircraft like the DC-9 using VOR navigation tend to wander back and forth very slightly, essentially making a shallow zig-zag down an airway (Victor airways in the US are 8nm wide). Back in the day when all aircraft did that, it wasn’t a problem. But when you have a GPS airliner right behind a DC-9 at the same speed, you will slowly lose separation since one aircraft is flying a straight line and the other is zig-zagging slightly. In busy airspace, that can be an issue. A friend of mine is an ATC center controller, and I remember him telling me back then, if he had a DC-9 and something newer side by side and he had to pick one to sequence first, he’d always put the DC-9 in the back of the line to avoid separation issues.
Decades ago (in the 1970s and 1980s), Continental Airlines had a major presence at both airports in Houston, Texas - Houston International (north side of the city) and Hobby Airport (south side of the city). Continental would connect passengers between the two airports with an hourly shuttle service using DC-9s (-10 series). As the distance between the 2 airports is only about 25 miles (40 kilometers), the flight time was very brief (about 12 minutes from takeoff to landing). Furthermore, those DC-9s flew unpressurized as their “cruise altitude” was between 3,000 feet to 5,000 feet (914 meters to 1,524 meters) above sea level. I was a DC-9 mechanic/engineer for Continental Airlines back in the 1980s at Houston Hobby Airport.
In the early 1970's I flew many times on Air Canada DC-9s. I really loved them as they were the most common aircraft within Canada at that time and they just seemed to fly so well. In many smaller airports at that time, there were no gates that the aircraft pulled right up to, and instead the internal ladder was dropped and we all went down that and walked across the tarmac to the terminal - often in subzero temperatures. It was indeed very refreshing to start out of the warm plane and be attacked by sub-zero winds as one went down the stairs until one could scurry into the terminal Nothing like a drop in temperature from plus 20C to minus 25C!
As a passenger I was summoned to the flight deck whilst on a flight back to the Uk from europe. Initially confused it transpired that my close friend and best man at my wedding who worked for the airline had arranged this. It was a 737 and I spent 30 minutes in the cockpit ( not allowed now ) talking to the pilot and crew . Never forgotten.
I was the software specialist supporting the two CAE built MD80 simulators at Longbeach from '84 to'to' 86. Great and interesting times. Thanks for reminding me.
Douglas developed the DC-9 during a high inflationary period, and took many orders at a fixed price years before delivery. As Douglas's production costs increased, the strong orders stretched cash flow, and led Douglas to seek a buyer. McDonnell Aircraft had only government contracts during the space race and the Vietnam War, on either a cost-plus basis, or fixed price with short time horizons, which led to ballooning profits in an inflationary environment, giving them excess cash flow to acquire Douglas. And US government tax policy led to the development of the 707. The government imposed a "war profiteer" tax during the Korean War, and because at the time Boeing was almost completely a government contractor, it's profits were much more exposed to the "war profiteer" tax than competitors like Douglas, Lockheed and Convair. Because R&D was a tax shield, developing the 707 reduced Boeing's exposure to the tax in ways that weren't available to its competitors.
That a really very interesting and important additional Information, thank you very much!👍It explains, too, why Douglas found themselves with these huge succes of the DC-9 in the need to be merged with McDonnell, what was finally the beginning of the end for them.
Very interesting! A similar principle could be applied to "pandemic profiteers", but NO government dared to raise taxes on those who did well during Covid-19 (e.g. work-at-home professionals, Big Pharma etc.). Instead, we got inflation thanks to the helicoptered relief money. But certainly an exemption for R&D is a great idea...
One of the things I've enjoyed about your channels are how it brings back memories of the planes that were in common service when I was a child, and how they differed from todays aircraft.
1974 first airplane ride. Delta DC-9 from Atlanta to Miami. They used to call the Delta version the Snoopy because the front with its black 'nose' resembled Snoopy's head.
Spent almost 2 years in building 84, where I worked on the MD-11, right next door to bldg 80, where the md-8* was built. Thanks for going down that old road, Petter. steve
The most striking DC-9's feature I noticed is that its engines are installed pointing slightly upward. I had some trouble understanding this, as such configuration would induce a huge, parasite down-pitch momentum, with a cascade of undesirable consequences. I found the answer on the Internet some time later. The engines are so installed so as to properly align them with the airflow "bent downward" by the wings' upper surfaces. To compensate for this, the engines' exhausts are "bent upward" by the engines' cowlings, thus avoiding the down-pitch. Clever!
Very first jet plane I flew in was a DC-9, shuttle from Newark to Boston. You showed up at the airport without a reservation, walked to the gate (no security back then), filled out a card, walked out onto the tarmac, put your bag on the baggage cart, and boarded the plane. In flight, the drinks cart came down the aisle, but it didn't have drinks - it had the credit card machine. You hadn't purchased a ticket yet. Super efficient.
I used to fly the DC-9 on Ozark Airlines from MKE to ORD to plane spot and listen to ATC on a portable radio when I was 16 yrs old. I usually flew down on a Fairchild twin-prop and flew back on a DC-9. It was so much fun, and the round trip ticket cost $25... Which I earned by delivering newspapers (remember those?). Great video. Seeing that clip of Ozark Airlines brought back so many memories. I love the DC9 and all twin engine rear mounted jets like the CRJ. May their rocket take-offs live forever.
When I flew out of John Wayne Airport in the 1980’s (while a M-D employee) there were 10-12 MD-80s lined up every morning for departures. They were the prime airframe for AirCal, PSA, and Texas International. (Ever heard of them?)
Boeing tried to do too much with the 737. They wanted large passenger capacity with the wide mainliner fuselage, they wanted light weight and more capacity with wing mounted engines, and they wanted the fuselage low to the ground for easy servicing and on-board airstair--decisions that curse them to this day and indeed throughout the history of the 737 (fuselage structural problems, original thrust reversers lifting the plane off the runway). The DC-9 did have the disadvantage of fuselage mounted engines which means either higher weight (as the wing attachments have to carry both the fuselage and the engines) or a lower zero fuel weight, but this meant that it could easily be stretched to insane proportions like the MD-90 by stretching the fuselage forward of the wing and adding larger and heavier engines behind it to balance it out. Another small disadvantage of the DC-9 was its narrower fuselage... which reduces ultimate passenger and baggage capacity (particularly overhead bin space) and makes boarding and disembarking more tedious. The near perfectly sized single aisle plane was introduced in 1967: the 727-200. 189 passengers maximum. This captured the lions share of 727 sales and defined domestic mainline operations in the US. Boeing couldn't modernize the 727 because of the tail mounted engine. Three engines was too much and there was no way to eliminate the second engine. So Boeing designed the 757 to replace it. They made it slightly larger to be more profitable, and they built a lot of growth into it to prevent the headaches they had with all of their other narrow body airliners. But.. it was too big.. and with deregulation and the transition from hub and spoke to point to point travel, it didn't make any sense. And for long haul passengers prefer wide body aircraft. So when it came time for Airbus to enter the single aisle market, they took square aim at the 727. The only major things they changed was the number of engines, and any requirement to do regional flying at unserviced airports. They could make it a little bigger into the A321 to make inroads against the 757, and a bit smaller to compete with the 737 Boeing had no choice. It had to stretch the 737 into the -400 to compete. It had to stretch the NG into the awkward and poor selling -900 to compete against the 321 as the 757 line was shut down. What's interesting is that Boeing kept the 717 alive as a regional airliner after the merger.. since it was smaller than the 737-600 which was a poor seller because like the 757 it was too huge for the capacity. But the 717 didn't sell much either and Boeing was shutting down Long Beach and legacy MD products save the lucrative C-17 orders. Regional airlines were gobbling up CRJs and ERJs as smaller cheaper jets. But both the airlines and the travelling public desired something larger so we got into the five across E-Jets and C-Series. One wonders what would have happened if the 717 was redeveloped and modernized as it would have been the perfect size--scope clauses notwithstanding. Flying in a 717 is heaven compared to a CRJ.
Interesting points. My quibble list: 727 ended production years before the A320 entered service, so maybe you mean the A320 was aimed squarely at the sort of use airlines had made of the 727? Overhead bins on an MD-80 had to have a depth comparable to the competition or allowable-length carry-ons couldn't fit wheels-first (not that today's wheeled bags existed yet). So five people instead of six vying for about the same volume. The offset aisle could make for a slightly unbalanced walking experience, however. To my way of thinking, the 717 already represented "redeveloped and modernized" to the extent it could be thought of as a DC-9-30 update. FWIW, I see the 757 as more of a 707 replacement, especially the earlier 707s which couldn't match a DC-8 (hence the 707-320). But as you note, it was sort of a tweener.
The A 320-Family of Airbus isn´t a Copy of the 727 - it´s a Development from Scratch, with the than revolutionary Fly-by-Wire-System and Sidesticks instead of Yokes. The Fly-by-Wire-System was imported from the French Mirage Fighter Jets which were produced by Dassault since 1961.
@@dennisg1045 MD-87/717 was tailor made for island hopping, even if somewhat by accident. Because it was a 140k# (MD-80) brake on a 100k# aircraft, brake heating in quick-turnaround island-hopping scenarios (Hawaii, Indonesia, ...) was substantially less than for competing 737 models.
Never had the pleasure of flying the DC (for Direct Cable...haha) 9, but I rode jumpseat on it a lot. Ours were super basic. VOR navigation and a really rudimentary autopilot. Compared to our 737s and Airbuses, it was practically archaic. I asked one captain of a flight I was jumpseating on if he liked it. He said that he did. I asked him what he liked about it and he said, "If I crash in this thing, at least I'll know why!" He had a point; there's something to be said for old school flying.
Looking over Mentours vids, when an event happens on contemporary planes, the pilots are surprised, and confused. They have to immediately think through all the interlocking layers of automation. Try that with a warning horn blaring. There’s something to be said of old school because it kept the pilot engaged. As an aside I had experience reading machine pressure both with a “steam” gage and digital simultaneously. The steam gage provided a visual sense of rate of pressure rise/loss. Extending this to glass cockpits ..automation and side sticks deprive the pilots of sensory information.
@@danbenson7587 Agreed. With that said, technology can be a wonderful thing and can greatly reduce a pilot's workload...as long as it's working. Over-reliance on technology, however, is a bad thing and has proven far more than once to be fatal. There are too many accident reports that show both pilots working a problem with the automation...while leaving the automation engaged. If automation is the problem, turn it off! The pilot flying needs to hand-fly, wings level, pitch and power to prevent exceedance of the critical angle of attack while respecting terrain. It's the pilot monitoring's job to work the problem. So many catastrophic accidents could've easily been prevented if one pilot just disconnected from automation and aviated while the other pilot did the troubleshooting. PS You're right. While some aural warnings can't be canceled until whatever is causing them is rectified, very often the aural caution and/or warnings alerts keep blaring away causing a great distraction. Once whatever is causing them to sound is ascertained, they should always be immediately canceled to prevent undue distraction.
I said this and I will say this again NO ONE ever does it better than mentour pilot🤩🔥 i mean just look at the amount of information he puts in his videos real images and vidoes historical aviation stuff that will make me brag about it in my workplace 🤩 mentour pilot every single video of yours I watch I learn new and new things which makes me do more research on my own which turns me into a real seat of the pants aviator 👨🏻✈️ just look at the details, English, historical background and all just in one video. Peter never ever fails to amaze me with every new video🤙🏽 I’m forever your most loyal fan mentour pilot. A lot of aviation history and how it started I learned about it from your channel then ventured into doing more research on my own which makes me so so much a better aviator 🤙🏽 we 100% appreciate you Peter
Before retiring seven years ago I had over 40 years flying commercial aircraft as a passenger. I am also an FAA licensed pilot for GA aircraft having owned one myself for some years. There is no doubt in my mind that I preferred the DC9 family of aircraft over the 737 family. The DC was smoother flying, quieter and , from my experiences, more reliable. On the other hand, giver my annual air miles exceeded 100,000 most years, I also experience a total of seven unscheduled landings. Three in the DC8, two in 707s, one IL72 (a Soviet copy of the DC8) and one 727. I have to say that only the DC8 unscheduled landings were scary, each being the result of loss of power on the flight deck in all three cases! Losing an engine, even when they explode or fall off, is not as traumatic as the aircrew not being able to see their instruments at night, in bad weather and without radio communication to air traffic control. But given a choice for short haul flights, I'd always choose a DC9 variant. The only design flaw was with the air-conditioning, which was powered from the JT8Ds, and turned off(!) when taking off or landing, just when all the Alitalia passengers were exuding the maximum amount of garlic from their sweat pores.
Thank you very much for this new Episode on Aviation History!🙂👍👍👍 - The DC 9/ MD 80/ MD 90/ B 717 -Family is definetely worth of it! Thank you also to mention the Sud Aviation Caravelle, without whom it wouldn´t exist. It´s really informative and teaching!🧡 Personally I´ve flown only two times on a MD-87 - from Finnair between Hamburg and Helsinki and back in the late 1990ies. Finnair was during decades one of the loyal Douglas Customers since the times of the DC-2 and I can still remember their MD 80ies, DC 10 and MD 11 lining up at the Airport of Helsinki Vantaa. After McDonnell Douglas merged with Boeing they switched over to Airbus. I can remember to have bought tickets for more front seats because it was well known from the "Mad Dogs" that the rear seats nearby the Engines were horrible noisy.
I’ve got 10,000+ hours flying the DC-9,:still my favorite plane except maybe for the A-330. I only needed to worry about two speeds in the DC-9, 250kts and 350kts. I flew it at 350kts until it was time to slow down and get the slats out at 250kts.
I have about 10,000 hours in the mighty DC-9 as both First Officer and Captain at Northwest Airlines. I flew the -10, -30, -40 and -50 series and they were great airplanes. From the doorway the cockpit looked cramped but once you climbed in and got in your seat it was very spacious and comfortable, as long as being cool in the summer wasn't a requirement. Very rarely did it leave us stranded and that was quite remarkable for an airplane with some very complicated solutions for simple problems. For instance, the circuit breaker for the battery bus was on the forward bulkhead just behind the radome. To reset that breaker there was a BATT BUS reset lever on the aft of the center pedestal that was connected to a small cable that ran through conduit and around pulleys that would pull up on a metal flap with a bolt in it. When you pulled the reset lever the cable would pull up the metal flap and the bolt head would push the circuit breaker in. It was an awesome aircraft and a real pleasure to fly. Boeing built airplanes, Douglas built character.
TAA (now Qantas domestic) flew DC9s. My first DC9 flight was to Launceston in Tasmania, where the terminal is half-way along the runway. TAA pilots had worked out that, if they touched down near the very start of the runway, slammed down the nose and hit the brakes hard, they could stop in half the runway length and turn straight into the terminal! Their competitor's 737s needed more runway and had to taxi back to the terminal.
Absolutely the best, most comprehensive analysis of the Douglas evolution from props to jets, and particularly the DAC Twinjet Family. I started my career in 1979 on the 1st MD-80 (LN 909/FSN 48000), and the MD-95 was my favorite of the DC-9 family. Excellent story - keep up the good work!
My uncle was a captain on a DC-9 for Eastern until he died in 1988. I had the privilege of flying in the Jump Seat from LGA-ATL once in 1984. It was quite the experience for a 12-year-old boy. It was a tremendous short-haul aircraft. I recently flew on the 717 with Delta, and it brought back many memories of my Uncle.
My first flight on a DC-9 was on North Central Airlines from Chicago to Traverse City, Michigan, across the lake on a DC 9-10. We boarded via a jetway, and deplaned in Traverse using the rear airstairs. Little did I know then that I would fly on it(the -30 and MD-82) thousands of times more as a flight attendant for USAir. My all time favorite plane!
I worked on the C-9A "Nightengale" for 5 years (aircraft maintenance specialist) during my time in the Air force at Scott AFB in Illinois. It was basically a flying hospital and could handle many medical needs.
Interesting - I got checked out as co-pilot on the Nightingale in Sept of 84. What a great airplane: slick, fast and reliable. And what a great mission - you felt you were doing something meaningful every day. An important part of AF history not often remembered.
I really enjoy your videos. My father worked for TWA for over 30 yrs as a A&P Mech/Inspector. I basically grew up at and around the now defunct Overhaul base at MCI. We had a metal desktop model of the DC-9. Along with a DC-8, a 707 , 727 and a 747. All in the TWA livery...old school of course. I used to get into trouble playing with them.......good times 😉
In the 1970s, I had the great pleasure of having as my Stanford aeronautical engineering grad school advisor, Dick Shevell, who was head of aerodynamics at Douglas for the DC-9. It was fascinating to learn of the many engineering decisions that made the DC-9 superior to the 737-100/200. It was also depressing to see that the McDonnells were already killing Douglas, just as they have nearly killed Boeing.
@@davidpowell3347 Acquired in reality. Douglas was great at engineering, not so good at finance. McDonnell had cash flow from military contracts, but ignorant as to how the commercial business worked, being paid upon delivery. A Lockheed merger almost happened, and would have been much better for both as the L-1011 vs DC-10 competition was a financial disaster.
@@jimandmandy - I was working at the McDonnell-Douglas factory in Long Beach when Lockheed cancelled the L10-11. Both companies stock price jumped on the news.
The DC-9 has been the best aircraft I have flown in my aviation career. I flew around 1200 hours on DC9-32 and MD-80. Thank you for sharing the history about it. Regards.
I've flown as a passenger in a Delta Air Lines DC-9, 4 Delta Air Lines MD-88's, and 33 Airtran Airways B717's, for a total of 38 variants. I've flown on a total of 85 planes. So 44.7% were DC9 variants. Incidentally, Petter, you will appreciate this: 23.5% of the planes I've flown on as a passenger were B737s (Classics and NGs, 20). The remaining 31.8% included 4 B767's, 2 SAAB 340A's, 2 Embraer EMB120 Brailias , a Bombardier Q400, 4 Embraer ERJ12245's, 3 Bombardier CRJ200's and 10 Airbus A320 variants (4 A319's and 6 A320's).
I just did a wikipedia search for the specs on the DC 9 and the French made Caravelle. Both held the same number of passengers, 139, and had the same range, 1300 miles. The Caravelle was created in 1955 and the DC 9 in 1965. Hats off to the French for their innovation. The Caravelle inspired other planes to be made.
The flying boom refueling system was developed by Boeing and was why it was the only contender for the jet tanker program. The commercial potential of the design led to the 707. With the transcontinental/intercontinental 707/720 launched, Boeing turned to the next market sector which was around 100pax, medium haul, smaller airports. This was the 727 with three JT8Ds. Douglas judged that market was not big enough for two aircraft (no one took the Trident seriously) so it went down to the next sector - a short haul jet with two JT8Ds. Boeing was fully committed with the 707/727/C-135 and decided to wait before entering that sector. It was a little crowded with the BAC 1-11 and the Caravelle. The rightness of the decision to go with the DC-9 can be seen in all the airlines that opted for a 727/DC-9 mix. Match made in heaven. When Boeing decided to join the fray it decided to make its aircraft different from the five abreast, rear engined competition. The 737 would be six abreast with the engines under the wing. That was the future although Boeing's desire to keep the floor height the same as the 727 has been the 737's weak point. Too many compromises have had to be made to fit later engines under the wing that the A320 has never had to make. In hindsight Boeing should have replaced the 737-200 with a shortened 757 fuselage/cockpit, new wing and pylon mounted CFM56s. But has to be admitted Boeing was heavily committed to the 757 and 767 programs and probably did not have the resources. The 737-300 was four years before the A320. Things might have been different if Boeing has waited two more years and used the 757 fuselage/cockpit as the starting point for a 737 replacement.
I took my first jet flight in 1970 on the B707 from the US to Europe. Over the years I also flew on various turboprop airliners, the DC8, DC9/MD80, DC10, B737, B757, B767, B747, B787, L1011, CRJs, various Airbus airliners and the military C141 Starlifter and C9 Nightingale. My 3 favorite aircraft are the B747 (my second favorite) , B787 (my all time favorite), and the DC9/MD 80 family (my favorite short haul aircraft). I love the sleek appearance of the DC9 airliner family and the 3-2 seat configuration that gives you a chance to avoid the dreaded middle seat. Maybe because they look fast and are relatively small I've always felt like the DC9 and the variants are the sports cars of the passenger airliner world.
I've been on DC-9, MD-80, and MD-90, the last time I was on a DC-9 was in the late 90's as the Air Force was giving some Navy guys a ride back to state side after a 6 month cruse. Advance teams always fly back a few days early. Also we had 1st watch for a week so all could spend time with family.
Interesting video with lots of facts : The BAC 111 (twin rear jet) was not totally eclipsed by the Caravelle as 244 were made and it enjoyed success with many airlines including in the USA : American Airlines, Mohawk and Braniff. It first flew in 1963.
I was an ICAO licence engineer on the DC9 - MD 80 serie and is amazed of the simplicity and well done construction of this a/c. I also had license on the B737- 200- 900 and this was a more clomsy and heavy a/c. A clear thumb up for the DC 9 👍
Air Canada's DC-9s got us around a lot when I was growing up...in Canada, and they were great fun to me as a kid. When we moved to the States later, the 727s (on Braniff, United, TWA, Pan Am et al) were way more common and somehow a more solid machine. In any case, great segment - thanks to you and the team!
Growing up in Scotland in the 1970's, we predominantly took package holidays to Europe with some sort of charter from Glasgow. More often than not, those were Britannia 737-200's to the Spanish mainland and islands. It's a type I still love - there's not nearly enough on UA-cam about what the Jurassic's did apart from the last few survivors soldiering on for Canadian gravel runways. But now and then we would get a surprise, one Spanish trip we had an Aviaco DC-8 which seemed impossibly huge. In the early eighties we switched our holidays to Yugoslavia and those flights are almost exclusively on Inex Adria DC9's of a similar vintage. It may well have been down to their predominately ex-military crews, but they always felt like sports cars compared to the short stubby Boeings.
I flew on an original DC-9 only once, but had a few flights on various MD-80s and even 717s. When I had the chance to be on a DC-9 in the second half of the 2000s, it was clear that I had to sit all the way in the back to enjoy the JT8D sound, and enjoying it I did. I also link this aircraft family (at least before the MD-87) to a few very unique sounds, much like today the "barking dog in the cargo hold" PTU sound is something iconic for the A320 family. For one, every time the PA came on, there was this 400 Hz sound overlayed, likely because filtering of the AC power wasn't nearly as good back then. And also when the engines were started up, you could hear the ignition capacitors charge through the PA speakers. Something I have never heard anywhere else. (Some other aircraft had the 400 Hz tone, but not as pronounced as the DC-9s)
The DC9 and the 727 were, and still are, my favorite aircraft design. I was always fascinated with the look of the T-tail and rear mounted jet engines. The 727 cockpit windows and fuselage nose looked really cool as well. Good video, thanks!
I swear SAS pilots flying these aircraft out of Oslo were training for a top secret Norwegian space programme. I have flown out of Oslo twice. On both occasions, we went up like a rocket and banked so sharply that we tracked back parallel to the runway from which we had just taken off! My first experience with the DC9, though, was with Cyprus Air in 1976 just after the punch-up of 1974. As RAF Akrotiri was about 100 miles away on poor roads my parents decided I should fly Cyprus Air to Larnaca rather than the RAF to Akrotiri. Larnaca was only about 15 miles or so from Dhekelia where we lived. At the time, Nicosia had been the only commercial airport for Cyprus but had been abandoned following the war. It is still abandoned. Larnaca was then a general aviation airfield but had been pressed into service to replace Nicosia. To say it was basic would be an understatement. Anyway, Cyprus Air had no maintenance facilities in Cyprus so they had to use Heathrow and hope for the best if problems developed en route. On my flight, we lost an engine about an hour out of Cyprus. I don't know what the pilots were facing in terms of other potential problems but I remember we came in very hard and fast. The aircraft slammed into the runway bounced three times and raced off the end of the runway into bushland where it eventually came to s stop. After about 30 minutes, a fleet of tractors arrived from nearby farms to haul the aircraft back. How they managed it I do not know but they got the aircraft back onto the tarmac and it was able to make its way to the terminal under its own power. My parents were watching all this from the viewing balcony on top of the terminal building. They saw Number 1 son merrily careering down the runway, hopping and skipping as he went and then watched the whole recovery operation unfold. Needless to say, my Mum put her foot down with a firm hand and I always flew RAF after that, necessitating a 200 mile round road trip for my poor Dad! The world was a different place back then!
I flew in a lot of dc-9s and MD-80s over the years. The coolest design to me was the 727, even tho it was NOT a “Whisperjet”. LOL. I thought it was a neat design with short field ability -4800 ft runway I think? Plus the built in stairs in the rear - before that was disabled - but that certainly was useful for small airports. Alas, the noise rules killed it, the engine in the tail couldn’t be modified for those requirements. Sigh.
The interesting thing about the DC-9 is that while it sold more than the 737 initially, its development actually cost Douglas so much money that it had to sell themselves to McDonnell. Paul Eddy's Destination Disaster is a great book to read about how the history of Douglas led up to the DC-10 door problems (though it was released in 1975, so a lot of statistics are outdated).
I think Douglas promised a locked in price for the planes when ordered,meanwhile Vietnam war related inflation caused their cost for building the planes to soar ,eroding their profit.
I used to work for Airborne Express as a Line Service Technician, I will always remember the fun of being around the DC-8’s and DC-9’s. The scream of the 9’s JT8D engines and the bellowing roar of the 8’s JT3D’s in all three variant -3, -3B, and -7 long duct!
Petter, you have found your calling, my dude! You could literally host an entire network devoted to aviation. We need pilots like you in America to help solve NTSB accidents. It’d be an honor to one day shake your hand.
I am always impressed with the topics you select, the due diligence in your research and neutral stance. All presented in s manner thats light, fun, yet full of aviation system details for us enthusiasts. Thank You
I worked at Republic Airlines and then Northwest Airlines and then Delta Airlines through mergers. I retired at the end of July 2020. I spent over 38 years in maintenance. I worked on all of the different DC-9 models and the MD-80's and B-717. I always loved the DC-9, i was able to go on pilot trainer flights and fly the different simulators
Everts Air Cargo and Air Fuel in Alaska actually still operates C-46, DC-6, and MD80, DC9, and MD82/3 aircraft for cargo and tanker operations. I got the pleasure to fly on both the MD80, and the DC-6 many times while working for them. We delivered to extremely remote locations all over Alaska. You should look into the crash of Everts Air flight N451CE in Candle Alaska. It happened during my time with the company, I remeber it being a particularly harrowing time. I was involved with the recovery of the crew/plane/cargo. Unfortunately the airfram was a total loss. There is also a video of the crash on youtube if you can find it.
I flew the 'nine' for the first in 1979. The model that was very agile and sensitive on the controls was the 10 series. I well remember my surprise at the performance and the way it felt the first time I flew it. A little rocket. I was lucky enough to spend 11 years on this beautiful aircraft (10 and 30 series). I really enjoyed this video. Thank you, Petter!
Thank you for wonderful history lesson. Back in the 80s, I flew several time on PSA and i thought those were DC9 (not sure). Then in the 90s, flew a lot on MD80/MD90 up and down the west coast for work. There were wonderful as well. Good memory.
Hi! Thank you for the video about the DC-9 - it was a great memory for me because I was able to fly DC-9s as co-pilot for my first four years (1979-1983). At Swissair we had DC-9-32s and DC-9-51s for passengers, the DC-9-33F for cargo and the DC-9-34 for Balair charters - all cross-licensed. It was a great plane for a young pilot and I really enjoyed it. However, after four years it was easy for me to switch to the MD-80 for a year and then to the DC-10-30(ER) and enjoy long-haul flights for eight years until I upgraded to the PiC on the MD-80!
Great Job Sir, I really enjoy Your channel. I trained as an Aircraft mechanic and learn a lot from You, wanted to be a pilot but never quite got the opportunity. Your videos are very easy to understand and very informative. Keeps Me current on many aspects of aviation. I also like how You share other info on 'life' for instance, mental health, online apps and so forth. Hope to join Your Patreon group soon. Thanks and God bless!!👌👍
The DC-9 will always hold a special place in my memory, as it was the first plane I ever flew on in 1977. I was 12 years old on a school trip to Washington, DC. We flew from Boston to Baltimore (BWI) on a USAir DC-9. I remember sitting in row 1 of the single-class plane and being surprised by how steeply it climbed. More than 3 decades later, my final DC-9 flight was on an American Super 80 from Boston to DFW.
Get an Exclusive NordVPN deal here ➼ nordvpn.com/mentournow It's completely risk-free with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee! ✌
Yeah except you also excluded the Europeans who beat the Americans to get twin jet-engine airliners into service as the French had the Caravelle and the British had the 1-11
@@asif9700 No idea where you are coming from (my ten cents: US), but here in Europe at least some streaming offers are being geo-blocked because of the rights of broadcasting certain movies, events and so on. And, by the way, this often depends on the owners of these broadcasting rights, often enough big American companies, who obviously remember the olde latin sayin': Divide et impera - sell the broadcasting rights separately to each and every European contry and the hinder them broadcasting freely.
"How DC-9: Douglas change Air Travel forever?"... ... aaaahh killing more people that any other aircraft in the world🥺?? ..+.. wait is the DC-9 or the DC-10 the one that hold that disastrous record 🤔?? .+.
Of those 2 planes, the DC-9 has had more accidents
A hacked company! Good advice, thanx.
My dad was an engineer at Douglas specializing in landing gear stress analysis (using a slide rule, but that's a different story.) He was on the DC-9 (and by extension the MD-xyz) project from the time before it came off the drawing board until long after the merger. Even after it was out of production, he still worked on it. In those days you used to keep analyzing failures to support the operator even if no new aircraft are being built. Long story short, he spent the vast majority of a 40-year career working on that one design and its variants. Thanks for the good memories.
"In those days you used to keep analyzing failures to support the operator even if no new aircraft are being built." The industry still does that.
did he have a machine shop overhauling landing gear in Riverside or thereabouts after he retired?
@@gendaminoru3195 No. He was pretty handy, but he really was a stress engineer first and foremost. He did have a go bag with calipers and specialized measuring tools, so he could fly in and show the operator how their maintenance procedures caused failures, such as wheels coming off, etc. (Not pointing any fingers Hawaiian Airlines.)
@@msromike123 Some data can only be collected after time has done a job on the component, the more quality data the better the estimate of mean time between failure. Predictive maintenance was my bag and it was very interesting but also swiss cheese in a can of worms. I raise my beer to your Dad and to those who have gone before.
Very interesting, thank you for sharing these Memories.
I'm 75yrs old..retired with a 47yr career with the airlines..worked the ground as a CSA(customer service agent)...we had DC3's and Convair 580's to start...when we got our first DC9's we were so ezcited and proud..what beatiful planes...loved working them. Flew to a lot of northern Michigan cities and when the weather got really bad(snowstorms)..those trustee old Convairs always seem to get in...loved those 2 aircraft..miss those early days..many blessed memories and life lessons..I thank God he granted me the pleasure of those experiences😊❤
Just prior to Eastern closing it's doors I booked a flight from Miami to Atlanta to visit my girlfriend. The DC-9 we flew was stopping in West Palm Beach (we picked up 18 more passengers) before continuing on to Atlanta. Well, on the Miami to Palm Beach leg I was the ONLY PASSENGER! I couldn't believe it.
What added another layer of humor to the whole thing was that one of the flight attendants quizzed me on the emergency procedures instead of briefing them (asked me questions like.... where are the nearest exits, etc). She and I were laughing as she asked the questions. Its such an amazing memory that it brings a smile to my face whenever I tell the story. Love the channel.
I almost did the same - but reckon I can better your story as I was very nearly refused entry to the U.S. by immigration for the lack of a visa! My then boss had been assured we could fly visaless ( which was true then ) but to do so we needed booked return tickets - but in a typical flight of skinflinting - followed another tip to fly to NYC and pick up an internal commuter. If I hadn't known a bit about NFL and had the good fortune to meet an official the spitting image of N.Y. Giant's Lawrence Taylor - "how about that! A Brit that follows football!" He let me use his phone to buy onward tickets to Orlando from TWA whose terminal was next door and we could get there without tainting non airside soil. ( Funnily enough, in Florida they just stamped our passports.)
Our D.C.9 was the last flight of the evening and was practically empty - 9 passengers with 14 crew! Lucky for me - long before security doors and after a chat with the chief trolly dolly about our route - I spent most of the trip up in the pointy end - I was even asked "are you familiar" which I still dine out on! And when I told the the crew that I'd flown a Tiger Moth - it was them that were overawed "gee! that's real flying."
Mind you, a couple of days later we saw STS26 Discovery launch from the Cape so the whole trip was rather spiffing.
yeah, 20+ years ago I flew a few flights in the eastern US that definitely used DC-9s. Nice planes. a bit small, but quite nice.
THAT STEWARDESS WAS A GEM!!!
I became a flight attendant for American Eagle out of DFW when I was just 19 years old (you had to be at least 19 although most airlines have a minimum age of 20) and I was usually on the ATR 72 during the dark Roselawn period. I live in Dallas and have always lived just north of downtown close to Love Field so when a company called Legend Airlines announced that it was the new Dallas Airline flying only out of Love Field instead of DFW, with a small fleet of 3 DC-9 jets I jumped at the chance and was the 3rd Flight Attendant out of about 100 finally hired . I fell in love with the DC-9 and although they were not necessarily new, ours were completely stripped of the original cabin configuration and became 2/2 with 64 seats instead of 2/3 with 90-100 seats. The concept was an all first class airline with leather recliner seats, one of the first airlines with TV’s in every seat back, designer uniforms, full inflight 3 course meal service with complimentary champagne and wine. I always bid the number 3 position so I could be in a forward jump-seat with the number 1 F/A rather than having to sit in the aft jump-seat (number 2 position) because of the noise of the engines and the terrible thought that if we had to evacuate the aircraft I’d have to use the aft cone exit that we used only for emergencies not for boarding or deplaning. I fell in love with the DC-9 and we were probably the last company that flew them exclusively from DAL to LAX, LAS, Washington DC, and LGA. Great memories of great equipment that we will probably never use commercially again.
I made around 2600 flight hours as a first officer on the MD-80. It was a great aircraft to fly. A real "classic" with old instrumentation and no FMS.
I am retired aircraft engineer in Australia, the DC-9 was my first jet powered a/c I was licensed on. Achieved that privilege in 1971. At retirement I have 47 jet endorsements on my licence. The DC-9 is my second best favourite a/c. Great plane, easy to work on, reliable and easy to understand the systems. (except for the electrical crosstie bus system, 11 relays in series that had to operate in the correct order or you would get a crosstie lockout. Only could be rest by an engineer.) My favourite though is the Airbus A320. That is the greatest.
Surprised to hear that the A320 is your favourite. Why so? In the airline I worked in, the engineers hated the Airbus models, they preferred Boeing. I think because Airbus wouldn't let them clear a defect if the system still self tested a fault. Whereas Boeing allowed them to easily clear tech log entries by the pilots.
@@ACSFlyingfish Thanks for the reply. The 737 is so dated and costly to maintain. eg. A thrust reverser sync lock check on a 737, 5 maint. qualified personnel are required. 2 in the flt.deck, 1 in the fwd. e&e, 1 in the mid e&e and one in the wheelwell/u/c area. A320, 2 people. If a fault is detected on a 320, the on board maint. fault system (CFDS) will adsvise the engineer of not only the correct maint. procedures, but also the ref. #, revision status and safety procedures required to trouble shoot the problem. I remember when I joined Virgin Australia and was doing my 3 month training course to get my 737-700/800 license, our instructor from Alteon, the Boeing training establishment, told our course that Boeing had the best BITE (Built in test equipment) system going. He was pissed when I told him that Airbus did not use that antiquated system. The a/c could automatically check itself if asked by the engineer. I could go on, but both a/c are great, you just have to remember the 737 is a 1960's a/c. A lot of ground crew could not get their heads around Fly By Wire.An example. After Ansett collapsed in 2002, a number of ex Ansett engineers were taken on by the big Aussie airline. That airline had just started operating A330 a/c. At virgin we had one LAME on duty at all time, the other mob had at least 6/8. One day an A330 had a steering problem reported before landing. BSCU 1& 2 defect. Not only did they contact an off duty, ex Ansett LAME, but asked the Virgin LAME for help as well. (Airbus systems are very much identical between a/c types.) Ended up safely, but the guys who were Boeing transfixed were overcome with the Airbus systems. Today of course that is water under the bridge. Oz continues to have a great safety record.
As for the tech log record, all Aussie maint records are on paper, in triplicate. The records are kept on file as long as the a/c remains registered in Oz. To clear a reported defect, the engineer must not only record the procedure used, the AMM chapter/subchapter/ATA ref #/ATA maint procedure number. ie ( An exterior light change for example, 34.40.601.30.) this is regardless of make or model of a/c. I will admit by the the time I retired, the paper work was getting to me. But when I started in 1964, almost all of our Captains were WW11 vets. God bless them.
@@rosssmith6205 Thanks for your detailed reply. I understand your explanation. Tech logs seem pretty much standard with at least 3 copies made in most countries.
I was type rated on the classic 737s, McDs, Fokkers, Airbus, DHC, of these I least liked flying the 737s because of the old systems and the perpetual technical issues like leaking brake reservoirs, aircond packs that couldn't produce sufficient pressurization just to name 2 that I recall from the yesteryears.
Oh, come on, the electrical system was simple. Lose a generator and the Crosstie immediately closes and puts its buses on the remaining operating generator, while simultaneously jettisoning the Galley loads. Just two Generator Buses, two engine generators, an APU, ground power (obviously only on the ground), a bunch of TRs for 28Vdc, and a battery to start the APU and operate a tiny set of loads in an emergency. Now the DC-10 was tough, and don't even get me started on the all-electric 787 which can power a small town!
My last flight on a DC-9 was in early 2002, flying Air Canada from YYZ to DCA. As I was boarding, I found myself standing in the doorway and looked up and read the Douglas nameplate that said the airframe had been manufactured in 1968. Have since flown on MD-80s and 90s.
Mine was in August 2001. Northwest Airlines KMEM to KBHM
Back in 2014 I flew on an american airlines md82 from KDFW to KSTL
They brought the 9 back later or maybe they never went out of production. I read all the stamps too😊
@TechnicalBard Years ago I was lucky enough to fly on both the DC-9 and the BAC111. I liked the DC9 more than the one eleven.
I flew the Air Canada DC-9 on a charter from Toronto to Thunder Bay for our ski team for the Canadian Winter Games, we had the run of the plane it was amazing
I was a Flight Attendant for three years from 2000-2003 and the MD-80s were my favorite plane to fly :)
I was a ramp agent in Lincoln, NE for TWA from '98-2000. We almost exclusively had the dc-9 md-80 variants 4-6 times a day. These were great planes to work on. We were a remote station and were trained on APU starts, engine starts and engine push-backs. I can still recall going through the APU startup procedure on a cold morning to help make it ready for the flight crew. We also had the best deep cleans on the evening shift. Bins were scrubbed, gum cleaned from carpets and galleys and bathrooms deep cleaned like new condition. The crews thought we brought them a new aircraft in the morning. I miss the days of sitting organizing the sky-mall magazines with new clean safety cards and crossing seat-belts after removing all the pretzel salt from each seat back. I still have my TWA ramp training manual and APU engine start procedure book ready to go.
My grandfather was a chief pilot for Eastern Airlines and got to captain many of the jets in their fleet, all the way up to the venerable L10-11. But he said that the DC-9 was easily his favorite to fly. Like a little "hot rod".
Pilots are awesome...I have great respect for them.
My uncle was an Eastern L-1011 captain. A shame that airline ended the way it did.
Twin engine aircraft are by definition over-powered so that they can successfully climb if one engine should fail at take-off.
@StefanMochnacki The DC-9-20 Took that principle pretty far though. It had the JT-8D-200 series engine which was intended for the stretched 30-50 series of DC-9, but used on the shorter -20 as well.
@@juliemanarin4127thank you from a pilot. 🧑✈️ and my passengers are awesome in that they allow us pilots to do what we love ❤😊
I lived 3 miles off the end of the runway in Long Beach California. As they flew directly overhead, the Boeing 727s (PSA airlines) were real screamers, while the DC9 were noticeably less noisy. I did like hearing the newly assembled DC 10s take off. They had a distinctive low whine, and of course provided many jobs to Long Beach.
There's a small museum in the original terminal building at the Long Beach Airport. It shows all kinds of historical events that took place at the Long Beach Airport. Strangely none of the exhibits is about Douglas, which produced all its jet aircraft there.
But the "Fly DC Jets" sign still stands!
@@AutonomousNavigator In spite of the admittedly checkered early history of the DC 10, it remains my favorite passenger jet of all time. Nothing was more comfortable for me, more spacious or more accommodating.
I’ll never forget the iconic DC-10 engine whine! You knew exactly what was flying overhead without even looking.
In 1979 Douglas had a two page ad in Aviation Week touting "This new baby doesn't scream" and goes on to say how quiet the jet was versus its predecessors.
I still get some 727 flying as private jets to LBG airport near Paris... And man are they loud 😂
They're only outlouded by fighter jets and maybe c17s
And the god forsaken Piaggio Avanti 💀
I have a soft spot in my heart for the DC-9 as it was the first jet I piloted. My relationship started as a passenger in 1967 flying on a TWA DC-9 from PIT to STL to attend collage. In 1977 I upgraded from being a 727 Flight Engineer to DC-9 First Officer. What a thrill it was for me as all of my previous experience was flying prop aircraft. The biggest short coming of the DC-9 for me was the lack of ground cooling for the cockpit. On hot days we would open the cockpit windows when taxiing and waiting for takeoff and close the outflow valve (the valve in the back of the plane that controls cabin pressurization by opening and closing) so all the air-conditioned air would flow out of the plane through the cockpit windows. When you did that you had better make sure the outflow valve was open before closing the cockpit windows!! This was the only way to keep cool in the southern cities we served. I only flew the DC-9 for about a year when I moved to the right seat of the 727. After the 727 I few the 757, 767, and ended on the 777 but the DC-9 will always be my first!!
At one time I worked for a computer manufacturer based in Minneapolis.Flying there often involved going to Chicago and riding a DC9. My favourite memory was one time when we arrived somewhere with all the normal gates busy. Parked near a door, some passengers left using the built-in stairs. When it came to leaving the pilot used the thrust reverser to go backwards unassisted and off we went
As a pilot on the DC9 for Air Canada we did the reverse thrust backup off the gate for a short time but the cost savings were cancelled by the FOD (Foreign Object Damage) to the engines over time.
My Zeos computer was a wonderful PC.
MDs too in DFW, Texas with AA
When they used to use thrust reversers to go back, good times 😂😂😂
I flew the DC9 as both FO and Captain. I always told my FO, "I am the FMC." Probably my most memorable DC9 experience (among many) was on a flight between MSP and Toronto. Approaching Toronto we were cleared to an NDB to hold on an NDB radial. It was nighttime and we were in the clouds with an 80 knot crosswind to our holding radial. By the time we figured out the correct crosswind heading to maintain the radial, we were cleared out of holding. The DC9 was a very physical airplane to fly. It may have been the first commercial aircraft with an integrated master caution/warning system. It was fun to actually pilot, but exhausting after the fourth or fifth leg. My favorite variant was the -30 with -15 engines. Still can't believe we used reverse thrust (where allowed) to back out of our gates. One other note- it had to have the most complex cockpit window closing mechanism of any aircraft in history.
As a child, my first experience with the DC-9 came as a result, of meeting my sister's Godparents. Her Godfather worked for Northwest Airlines, at the maintenance facility in Minneapolis - St. Paul. He took us aboard a DC-9, and sat me in the cockpit. "Don't touch the landing gear handle!" (as if it wasn't pinned). I also remember going through the engine shop, where I marveled at the clam-shell thrust reverser. In my professional career, I flew many times on DC-9s and it's variants. I can't say it was my favorite airliner, but who can forget those PSA DC-9s with the big smile painted on their fuselage? I also was involved in evaluating proposals for the US Navy P-3 replacement (Long Range Air Anti-submarine Warfare Capable Aircraft, LRAACA), which included a MD-80 variant with unducted fan engines, the P-9,; a designation clearly giving homage to it's DC-9 roots.
Nice! 😊
I'm old enough to remember when families and friends could take you to work with them. Thank you for your interest informative background storyline.
I love these videos, because I'm in my late 60s, and grew up transitioning from airliners like the DC-3, DC-7s, Constellations, etc., to the DC-9s, 727s, 737s, and the 707. It was striking (putting it mildly!) to make a flight in a DC-3 at 8000 feet, then switch to a jet, and travel at 30,000 feet, and three times faster.) :)
@Petter, super, super thanks so much for doing this story. For us living in Norway (Bergen), the DC9 and the following MD-8x, MD-9x series was the benchmark of aviation for decades, flying with SAS between Bergen and Oslo. I loved, loved, loved flying the DC9 ❤💙💛 I reckon that insanely steep takeoff angle is unprecedented in any other airplanes. Actually, I even miss the DC9 today 💔🥲
I was a captain on the DC9 -10,30 ,50 , MD80 and MD95/717….loved every minutes of it !
I used to work on dc-9s as a young A&P mechanic, absolutely love them, easy to work on you can reach everything under the wing simple controls easy Avionics, just easy access for everything
I always liked airliners as we went to the airport often to pick up or drop off relatives. Those were the great days of being a kid in the 1960's as you could go to the airport and just watch aircraft land and take off. The staple of airliners I saw at the airport and flying over our house were the 727 and DC-9 series of airliners. This tutorial brought back a lot of great memories of a time when flying was a real treat and seeing airliners was a true thrill for me. Thank you for taking the time to make these tutorials of the various airliners in this series.
I loved the “Dizzy 9.” It once led to me flying part of a trip in first class by pure luck. I was flying from EVV to BOS with a connection in PIT. It was when airlines started experimenting with giving all your boarding passes at your first check-in. The EVV ticket agent asked if I had a seat preference and I asked for an aisle seat forward. She checked her screen and and said you can have 3B. After a further look she said you can have 3B on both flights. When I boarded the plane was a DC-9 and was configured as all one class. Where the story gets interesting is the connection in PIT. It was supposed to be 2 hour connection, which was OK because it gave me time for an unhurried dinner. The weather in Pittsburgh was wretched, with heavy thunderstorms. Planes were delayed both in and outbound. My 1900 departure finally boarded at 2200. When I stepped onto the plane, it turned out to be a 727 with seat 3B in first class. I sat down and the FA said, “would you like something to drink?” I replied, “I wouldn’t mind shaking hands with Jack Daniels.” The head FA kept came forward three times muttering about 93 in the back and 6 in the front. At one point the first class attendant asked to see my boarding pass. Seeing the 3B assignment she asked if I would like another Jack Daniels. Finally the head FA said 93 in the back, 6 in the front, we’ve got our 99, let’s go. So I got to enjoy the flight to BOS in the relative luxury of USAir first class.
Another great and informative video and I loved flying on the DC-9 and the Mad Dogs and 717s but by far my favorite airliner is the Convair 580 which is a Turboprop Conversion of either a CV-340 or CV-440 utilizing a pair of Allison 501d-13 or 501d-13h turboprops with 13’6” Aeroproducts Square Tipped 4 Blade Propellers!
This was a very similar engine/prop package used on the Lockheed C-130 (Allison T-56) with the reduction gearbox mounted above the engine as opposed to below and with the engines derated to “only” 3,750 SHP with an additional 800lbs of jet thrust. The Lockheed 188 Electra 2 and P-3 Orion also used the same powerplant.
The Convairliners series was an important and influential aircraft in its own way and deserves its own episode on your fantastic channel, several aircraft are still flying and earning their keep including 6 C-131 aircraft that have been “stretched” to produce the Convair 5800!
My dad flew the DC-9, MD-80 and MD-90 in the past. As an 80s airline brat I was lucky enough to sit on the jump seat many times, and even got to fly the DC-9 simulator SAS had in Stockholm. Long live the legendary DC-9 and thanks for the video!
I work as a mechanic at skydive perris! Thanks for the shout out 🤝🏽🥹 Love your videos!
I just collected my 1st pension check for 13 years at Long Beach. Thanks for pointing out how DAC went to great lengths to accomodate customers, keeping systems simple, making planes efficient and efficiently. I rehired in 2003 and stayed another 18 years, and they still ask me to come back. We did NOT ruin Boeing, far from it.
Amen brother. Haters have to pin blame on someone. Convair -> General Dynamics/Douglas -> McDonnell Douglas -> Boeing. Pick a scapegoat, any scapegoat at all. "If it wasn't for the merger Boeing never would have worried about profit as a means of staying in business." LOL If you want to blame anyone for Boeings problems, blame Airbus.
Towards the end of the DC-9’s passenger service in the US, it was a minor hassle for air traffic control. Because it didn’t have GPS or as modern an FMS navigation system, it would not hold course as precisely as newer aircraft. GPS equipped airliners fly a straight line right down the center of an airway; older aircraft like the DC-9 using VOR navigation tend to wander back and forth very slightly, essentially making a shallow zig-zag down an airway (Victor airways in the US are 8nm wide). Back in the day when all aircraft did that, it wasn’t a problem. But when you have a GPS airliner right behind a DC-9 at the same speed, you will slowly lose separation since one aircraft is flying a straight line and the other is zig-zagging slightly. In busy airspace, that can be an issue. A friend of mine is an ATC center controller, and I remember him telling me back then, if he had a DC-9 and something newer side by side and he had to pick one to sequence first, he’d always put the DC-9 in the back of the line to avoid separation issues.
Decades ago (in the 1970s and 1980s), Continental Airlines had a major presence at both airports in Houston, Texas - Houston International (north side of the city) and Hobby Airport (south side of the city). Continental would connect passengers between the two airports with an hourly shuttle service using DC-9s (-10 series). As the distance between the 2 airports is only about 25 miles (40 kilometers), the flight time was very brief (about 12 minutes from takeoff to landing). Furthermore, those DC-9s flew unpressurized as their “cruise altitude” was between 3,000 feet to 5,000 feet (914 meters to 1,524 meters) above sea level. I was a DC-9 mechanic/engineer for Continental Airlines back in the 1980s at Houston Hobby Airport.
In the early 1970's I flew many times on Air Canada DC-9s. I really loved them as they were the most common aircraft within Canada at that time and they just seemed to fly so well. In many smaller airports at that time, there were no gates that the aircraft pulled right up to, and instead the internal ladder was dropped and we all went down that and walked across the tarmac to the terminal - often in subzero temperatures. It was indeed very refreshing to start out of the warm plane and be attacked by sub-zero winds as one went down the stairs until one could scurry into the terminal Nothing like a drop in temperature from plus 20C to minus 25C!
Done the same many times - Sudbury at -25C taking off in a snowstorm bouncing from 'snowdune' to 'snowdune'.
As a passenger I was summoned to the flight deck whilst on a flight back to the Uk from europe. Initially confused it transpired that my close friend and best man at my wedding who worked for the airline had arranged this. It was a 737 and I spent 30 minutes in the cockpit ( not allowed now ) talking to the pilot and crew . Never forgotten.
I was the software specialist supporting the two CAE built MD80 simulators at Longbeach from '84 to'to' 86. Great and interesting times. Thanks for reminding me.
Douglas developed the DC-9 during a high inflationary period, and took many orders at a fixed price years before delivery. As Douglas's production costs increased, the strong orders stretched cash flow, and led Douglas to seek a buyer. McDonnell Aircraft had only government contracts during the space race and the Vietnam War, on either a cost-plus basis, or fixed price with short time horizons, which led to ballooning profits in an inflationary environment, giving them excess cash flow to acquire Douglas.
And US government tax policy led to the development of the 707. The government imposed a "war profiteer" tax during the Korean War, and because at the time Boeing was almost completely a government contractor, it's profits were much more exposed to the "war profiteer" tax than competitors like Douglas, Lockheed and Convair. Because R&D was a tax shield, developing the 707 reduced Boeing's exposure to the tax in ways that weren't available to its competitors.
I didnt understand most of that but interesting indeed.
That a really very interesting and important additional Information, thank you very much!👍It explains, too, why Douglas found themselves with these huge succes of the DC-9 in the need to be merged with McDonnell, what was finally the beginning of the end for them.
@@NicolaW72Beginning of the end for Boeing, too!
Now we know the rest of the story.
Very interesting! A similar principle could be applied to "pandemic profiteers", but NO government dared to raise taxes on those who did well during Covid-19 (e.g. work-at-home professionals, Big Pharma etc.). Instead, we got inflation thanks to the helicoptered relief money. But certainly an exemption for R&D is a great idea...
One of the things I've enjoyed about your channels are how it brings back memories of the planes that were in common service when I was a child, and how they differed from todays aircraft.
1974 first airplane ride. Delta DC-9 from Atlanta to Miami. They used to call the Delta version the Snoopy because the front with its black 'nose' resembled Snoopy's head.
Spent almost 2 years in building 84, where I
worked on the MD-11, right next door to
bldg 80, where the md-8* was built. Thanks
for going down that old road, Petter.
steve
Thanks for being here, enjoying it! 💕💕
I worked the MD-11 line on the engine crew from 88-92. we probably know a lot of the same people!
The most striking DC-9's feature I noticed is that its engines are installed pointing slightly upward. I had some trouble understanding this, as such configuration would induce a huge, parasite down-pitch momentum, with a cascade of undesirable consequences. I found the answer on the Internet some time later. The engines are so installed so as to properly align them with the airflow "bent downward" by the wings' upper surfaces. To compensate for this, the engines' exhausts are "bent upward" by the engines' cowlings, thus avoiding the down-pitch. Clever!
I think they were trying to make it pitch change neutral when engine power is changed either up or down.
Very first jet plane I flew in was a DC-9, shuttle from Newark to Boston. You showed up at the airport without a reservation, walked to the gate (no security back then), filled out a card, walked out onto the tarmac, put your bag on the baggage cart, and boarded the plane. In flight, the drinks cart came down the aisle, but it didn't have drinks - it had the credit card machine. You hadn't purchased a ticket yet. Super efficient.
I used to fly the DC-9 on Ozark Airlines from MKE to ORD to plane spot and listen to ATC on a portable radio when I was 16 yrs old. I usually flew down on a Fairchild twin-prop and flew back on a DC-9. It was so much fun, and the round trip ticket cost $25... Which I earned by delivering newspapers (remember those?). Great video. Seeing that clip of Ozark Airlines brought back so many memories. I love the DC9 and all twin engine rear mounted jets like the CRJ. May their rocket take-offs live forever.
MKE sure loved the DC-9. Very fond memories of flying Midwest Express as a kid and spotting them. 🍪 ✈️
When I flew out of John Wayne Airport in the 1980’s (while a M-D employee) there were 10-12 MD-80s lined up every morning for departures. They were the prime airframe for AirCal, PSA, and Texas International. (Ever heard of them?)
Boeing tried to do too much with the 737. They wanted large passenger capacity with the wide mainliner fuselage, they wanted light weight and more capacity with wing mounted engines, and they wanted the fuselage low to the ground for easy servicing and on-board airstair--decisions that curse them to this day and indeed throughout the history of the 737 (fuselage structural problems, original thrust reversers lifting the plane off the runway).
The DC-9 did have the disadvantage of fuselage mounted engines which means either higher weight (as the wing attachments have to carry both the fuselage and the engines) or a lower zero fuel weight, but this meant that it could easily be stretched to insane proportions like the MD-90 by stretching the fuselage forward of the wing and adding larger and heavier engines behind it to balance it out. Another small disadvantage of the DC-9 was its narrower fuselage... which reduces ultimate passenger and baggage capacity (particularly overhead bin space) and makes boarding and disembarking more tedious.
The near perfectly sized single aisle plane was introduced in 1967: the 727-200. 189 passengers maximum. This captured the lions share of 727 sales and defined domestic mainline operations in the US. Boeing couldn't modernize the 727 because of the tail mounted engine. Three engines was too much and there was no way to eliminate the second engine.
So Boeing designed the 757 to replace it. They made it slightly larger to be more profitable, and they built a lot of growth into it to prevent the headaches they had with all of their other narrow body airliners. But.. it was too big.. and with deregulation and the transition from hub and spoke to point to point travel, it didn't make any sense. And for long haul passengers prefer wide body aircraft.
So when it came time for Airbus to enter the single aisle market, they took square aim at the 727. The only major things they changed was the number of engines, and any requirement to do regional flying at unserviced airports. They could make it a little bigger into the A321 to make inroads against the 757, and a bit smaller to compete with the 737
Boeing had no choice. It had to stretch the 737 into the -400 to compete. It had to stretch the NG into the awkward and poor selling -900 to compete against the 321 as the 757 line was shut down.
What's interesting is that Boeing kept the 717 alive as a regional airliner after the merger.. since it was smaller than the 737-600 which was a poor seller because like the 757 it was too huge for the capacity. But the 717 didn't sell much either and Boeing was shutting down Long Beach and legacy MD products save the lucrative C-17 orders.
Regional airlines were gobbling up CRJs and ERJs as smaller cheaper jets. But both the airlines and the travelling public desired something larger so we got into the five across E-Jets and C-Series. One wonders what would have happened if the 717 was redeveloped and modernized as it would have been the perfect size--scope clauses notwithstanding. Flying in a 717 is heaven compared to a CRJ.
Interesting points. My quibble list:
727 ended production years before the A320 entered service, so maybe you mean the A320 was aimed squarely at the sort of use airlines had made of the 727?
Overhead bins on an MD-80 had to have a depth comparable to the competition or allowable-length carry-ons couldn't fit wheels-first (not that today's wheeled bags existed yet). So five people instead of six vying for about the same volume. The offset aisle could make for a slightly unbalanced walking experience, however.
To my way of thinking, the 717 already represented "redeveloped and modernized" to the extent it could be thought of as a DC-9-30 update.
FWIW, I see the 757 as more of a 707 replacement, especially the earlier 707s which couldn't match a DC-8 (hence the 707-320). But as you note, it was sort of a tweener.
Did BA ever think of a 757SP shorter jet?
The A 320-Family of Airbus isn´t a Copy of the 727 - it´s a Development from Scratch, with the than revolutionary Fly-by-Wire-System and Sidesticks instead of Yokes. The Fly-by-Wire-System was imported from the French Mirage Fighter Jets which were produced by Dassault since 1961.
Loved the 717's for island hopping in Hawaii.
@@dennisg1045 MD-87/717 was tailor made for island hopping, even if somewhat by accident. Because it was a 140k# (MD-80) brake on a 100k# aircraft, brake heating in quick-turnaround island-hopping scenarios (Hawaii, Indonesia, ...) was substantially less than for competing 737 models.
They are very quiet while sitting in the front cabin. You can almost not hear the engine during take off. Onle the wheels! That is an amazing feeling
Never had the pleasure of flying the DC (for Direct Cable...haha) 9, but I rode jumpseat on it a lot. Ours were super basic. VOR navigation and a really rudimentary autopilot. Compared to our 737s and Airbuses, it was practically archaic. I asked one captain of a flight I was jumpseating on if he liked it. He said that he did. I asked him what he liked about it and he said, "If I crash in this thing, at least I'll know why!" He had a point; there's something to be said for old school flying.
Looking over Mentours vids, when an event happens on contemporary planes, the pilots are surprised, and confused. They have to immediately think through all the interlocking layers of automation. Try that with a warning horn blaring. There’s something to be said of old school because it kept the pilot engaged.
As an aside I had experience reading machine pressure both with a “steam” gage and digital simultaneously. The steam gage provided a visual sense of rate of pressure rise/loss. Extending this to glass cockpits ..automation and side sticks deprive the pilots of sensory information.
@@danbenson7587 Agreed. With that said, technology can be a wonderful thing and can greatly reduce a pilot's workload...as long as it's working. Over-reliance on technology, however, is a bad thing and has proven far more than once to be fatal. There are too many accident reports that show both pilots working a problem with the automation...while leaving the automation engaged. If automation is the problem, turn it off! The pilot flying needs to hand-fly, wings level, pitch and power to prevent exceedance of the critical angle of attack while respecting terrain. It's the pilot monitoring's job to work the problem. So many catastrophic accidents could've easily been prevented if one pilot just disconnected from automation and aviated while the other pilot did the troubleshooting.
PS You're right. While some aural warnings can't be canceled until whatever is causing them is rectified, very often the aural caution and/or warnings alerts keep blaring away causing a great distraction. Once whatever is causing them to sound is ascertained, they should always be immediately canceled to prevent undue distraction.
I said this and I will say this again NO ONE ever does it better than mentour pilot🤩🔥 i mean just look at the amount of information he puts in his videos real images and vidoes historical aviation stuff that will make me brag about it in my workplace 🤩 mentour pilot every single video of yours I watch I learn new and new things which makes me do more research on my own which turns me into a real seat of the pants aviator 👨🏻✈️ just look at the details, English, historical background and all just in one video. Peter never ever fails to amaze me with every new video🤙🏽 I’m forever your most loyal fan mentour pilot. A lot of aviation history and how it started I learned about it from your channel then ventured into doing more research on my own which makes me so so much a better aviator 🤙🏽 we 100% appreciate you Peter
Before retiring seven years ago I had over 40 years flying commercial aircraft as a passenger. I am also an FAA licensed pilot for GA aircraft having owned one myself for some years.
There is no doubt in my mind that I preferred the DC9 family of aircraft over the 737 family. The DC was smoother flying, quieter and , from my experiences, more reliable. On the other hand, giver my annual air miles exceeded 100,000 most years, I also experience a total of seven unscheduled landings. Three in the DC8, two in 707s, one IL72 (a Soviet copy of the DC8) and one 727.
I have to say that only the DC8 unscheduled landings were scary, each being the result of loss of power on the flight deck in all three cases! Losing an engine, even when they explode or fall off, is not as traumatic as the aircrew not being able to see their instruments at night, in bad weather and without radio communication to air traffic control.
But given a choice for short haul flights, I'd always choose a DC9 variant. The only design flaw was with the air-conditioning, which was powered from the JT8Ds, and turned off(!) when taking off or landing, just when all the Alitalia passengers were exuding the maximum amount of garlic from their sweat pores.
TMI 😱
Thank you very much for this new Episode on Aviation History!🙂👍👍👍 - The DC 9/ MD 80/ MD 90/ B 717 -Family is definetely worth of it! Thank you also to mention the Sud Aviation Caravelle, without whom it wouldn´t exist. It´s really informative and teaching!🧡
Personally I´ve flown only two times on a MD-87 - from Finnair between Hamburg and Helsinki and back in the late 1990ies. Finnair was during decades one of the loyal Douglas Customers since the times of the DC-2 and I can still remember their MD 80ies, DC 10 and MD 11 lining up at the Airport of Helsinki Vantaa. After McDonnell Douglas merged with Boeing they switched over to Airbus.
I can remember to have bought tickets for more front seats because it was well known from the "Mad Dogs" that the rear seats nearby the Engines were horrible noisy.
I’ve got 10,000+ hours flying the DC-9,:still my favorite plane except maybe for the A-330.
I only needed to worry about two speeds in the DC-9, 250kts and 350kts.
I flew it at 350kts until it was time to slow down and get the slats out at 250kts.
I have about 10,000 hours in the mighty DC-9 as both First Officer and Captain at Northwest Airlines. I flew the -10, -30, -40 and -50 series and they were great airplanes. From the doorway the cockpit looked cramped but once you climbed in and got in your seat it was very spacious and comfortable, as long as being cool in the summer wasn't a requirement. Very rarely did it leave us stranded and that was quite remarkable for an airplane with some very complicated solutions for simple problems. For instance, the circuit breaker for the battery bus was on the forward bulkhead just behind the radome. To reset that breaker there was a BATT BUS reset lever on the aft of the center pedestal that was connected to a small cable that ran through conduit and around pulleys that would pull up on a metal flap with a bolt in it. When you pulled the reset lever the cable would pull up the metal flap and the bolt head would push the circuit breaker in. It was an awesome aircraft and a real pleasure to fly. Boeing built airplanes, Douglas built character.
BA evaluated the 737/DC9 in the late 70s. The DC 9 was a bit faster and definitely better built but they still went for the 737.
TAA (now Qantas domestic) flew DC9s. My first DC9 flight was to Launceston in Tasmania, where the terminal is half-way along the runway. TAA pilots had worked out that, if they touched down near the very start of the runway, slammed down the nose and hit the brakes hard, they could stop in half the runway length and turn straight into the terminal! Their competitor's 737s needed more runway and had to taxi back to the terminal.
Absolutely the best, most comprehensive analysis of the Douglas evolution from props to jets, and particularly the DAC Twinjet Family.
I started my career in 1979 on the 1st MD-80 (LN 909/FSN 48000), and the MD-95 was my favorite of the DC-9 family.
Excellent story - keep up the good work!
My grandfather flew Constellations with Capital. After the United merger he transitioned to the DC-9. He enjoyed flying it.
My uncle was a captain on a DC-9 for Eastern until he died in 1988. I had the privilege of flying in the Jump Seat from LGA-ATL once in 1984. It was quite the experience for a 12-year-old boy. It was a tremendous short-haul aircraft. I recently flew on the 717 with Delta, and it brought back many memories of my Uncle.
My first flight on a DC-9 was on North Central Airlines from Chicago to Traverse City, Michigan, across the lake on a DC 9-10. We boarded via a jetway, and deplaned in Traverse using the rear airstairs. Little did I know then that I would fly on it(the -30 and MD-82) thousands of times more as a flight attendant for USAir. My all time favorite plane!
Thank you for this. I do remember the DC-9 (MD-80 and 90, too), as it was flown by Air Canada and other Canadian air carriers for the longest time.
The US Air Force had a DC-9 version called the "C-9 Nightingale". It was used for aeromedical transport. I flew on a 3-day mission on one in 1984.
I was med-evac'd in two of them. :)
I worked on the C-9A "Nightengale" for 5 years (aircraft maintenance specialist) during my time in the Air force at Scott AFB in Illinois. It was basically a flying hospital and could handle many medical needs.
Interesting - I got checked out as co-pilot on the Nightingale in Sept of 84. What a great airplane: slick, fast and reliable. And what a great mission - you felt you were doing something meaningful every day. An important part of AF history not often remembered.
I really enjoy your videos. My father worked for TWA for over 30 yrs as a A&P Mech/Inspector. I basically grew up at and around the now defunct Overhaul base at MCI. We had a metal desktop model of the DC-9. Along with a DC-8, a 707 , 727 and a 747. All in the TWA livery...old school of course. I used to get into trouble playing with them.......good times 😉
Yes,my first flight was on DC-9,Accra to Lagos with Ghana airways.Fantastic
I like, when Uncle Peter tells me stories!
Love your new talkshow setting!
In the 1970s, I had the great pleasure of having as my Stanford aeronautical engineering grad school advisor, Dick Shevell, who was head of aerodynamics at Douglas for the DC-9. It was fascinating to learn of the many engineering decisions that made the DC-9 superior to the 737-100/200. It was also depressing to see that the McDonnells were already killing Douglas, just as they have nearly killed Boeing.
Was it during the development period for the DC 10 that Douglas was merged into or acquired by McDonnell ?
@@davidpowell3347 Acquired in reality. Douglas was great at engineering, not so good at finance. McDonnell had cash flow from military contracts, but ignorant as to how the commercial business worked, being paid upon delivery. A Lockheed merger almost happened, and would have been much better for both as the L-1011 vs DC-10 competition was a financial disaster.
@@jimandmandy - I was working at the McDonnell-Douglas factory in Long Beach when Lockheed cancelled the L10-11. Both companies stock price jumped on the news.
@@jimandmandy Indeed very interesting Information! Thank you for sharing them.👍
McDonnell was a vampire corporation
The DC-9 has been the best aircraft I have flown in my aviation career. I flew around 1200 hours on DC9-32 and MD-80. Thank you for sharing the history about it. Regards.
I've flown as a passenger in a Delta Air Lines DC-9, 4 Delta Air Lines MD-88's, and 33 Airtran Airways B717's, for a total of 38 variants. I've flown on a total of 85 planes. So 44.7% were DC9 variants. Incidentally, Petter, you will appreciate this: 23.5% of the planes I've flown on as a passenger were B737s (Classics and NGs, 20). The remaining 31.8% included 4 B767's, 2 SAAB 340A's, 2 Embraer EMB120 Brailias , a Bombardier Q400, 4 Embraer ERJ12245's, 3 Bombardier CRJ200's and 10 Airbus A320 variants (4 A319's and 6 A320's).
I just did a wikipedia search for the specs on the DC 9 and the French made Caravelle. Both held the same number of passengers, 139, and had the same range, 1300 miles. The Caravelle was created in 1955 and the DC 9 in 1965. Hats off to the French for their innovation. The Caravelle inspired other planes to be made.
The flying boom refueling system was developed by Boeing and was why it was the only contender for the jet tanker program. The commercial potential of the design led to the 707. With the transcontinental/intercontinental 707/720 launched, Boeing turned to the next market sector which was around 100pax, medium haul, smaller airports. This was the 727 with three JT8Ds. Douglas judged that market was not big enough for two aircraft (no one took the Trident seriously) so it went down to the next sector - a short haul jet with two JT8Ds. Boeing was fully committed with the 707/727/C-135 and decided to wait before entering that sector. It was a little crowded with the BAC 1-11 and the Caravelle. The rightness of the decision to go with the DC-9 can be seen in all the airlines that opted for a 727/DC-9 mix. Match made in heaven.
When Boeing decided to join the fray it decided to make its aircraft different from the five abreast, rear engined competition. The 737 would be six abreast with the engines under the wing. That was the future although Boeing's desire to keep the floor height the same as the 727 has been the 737's weak point. Too many compromises have had to be made to fit later engines under the wing that the A320 has never had to make.
In hindsight Boeing should have replaced the 737-200 with a shortened 757 fuselage/cockpit, new wing and pylon mounted CFM56s. But has to be admitted Boeing was heavily committed to the 757 and 767 programs and probably did not have the resources. The 737-300 was four years before the A320. Things might have been different if Boeing has waited two more years and used the 757 fuselage/cockpit as the starting point for a 737 replacement.
I took my first jet flight in 1970 on the B707 from the US to Europe. Over the years I also flew on various turboprop airliners, the DC8, DC9/MD80, DC10, B737, B757, B767, B747, B787, L1011, CRJs, various Airbus airliners and the military C141 Starlifter and C9 Nightingale. My 3 favorite aircraft are the B747 (my second favorite) , B787 (my all time favorite), and the DC9/MD 80 family (my favorite short haul aircraft).
I love the sleek appearance of the DC9 airliner family and the 3-2 seat configuration that gives you a chance to avoid the dreaded middle seat. Maybe because they look fast and are relatively small I've always felt like the DC9 and the variants are the sports cars of the passenger airliner world.
I've been on DC-9, MD-80, and MD-90, the last time I was on a DC-9 was in the late 90's as the Air Force was giving some Navy guys a ride back to state side after a 6 month cruse. Advance teams always fly back a few days early. Also we had 1st watch for a week so all could spend time with family.
Interesting video with lots of facts : The BAC 111 (twin rear jet) was not totally eclipsed by the Caravelle as 244 were made and it enjoyed success with many airlines including in the USA : American Airlines, Mohawk and Braniff. It first flew in 1963.
Love the MD80. Beautiful aircraft.
Very well told and enjoyable piece of aviation history. Thank you for a good one.
The DC-9 & its many variants are my favourite airliner
My first DC-9 flight was about 40 years ago. Done many also in MD-8(0)s and 717s. Loved every time.
Please make more outtakes. Nice video as always. :)
Please don't. Self deprecating humor is way overdone and old. Keep your dignity. We respect your opinions.
I was an ICAO licence engineer on the DC9 - MD 80 serie and is amazed of the simplicity and well done construction of this a/c. I also had license on the B737- 200- 900 and this was a more clomsy and heavy a/c. A clear thumb up for the DC 9 👍
One of the FINEST aircraft ever produced!!!!
Many times, flew in the Aeromexico version of it. Also, the B727 from Mexicana with Jatos!. Great series!
Amazing. I was so in the mood in for a new aviation video of any type and this literally popped up. For it to be a Petter video was even better.
Aww, that’s so nice to hear
Air Canada's DC-9s got us around a lot when I was growing up...in Canada, and they were great fun to me as a kid. When we moved to the States later, the 727s (on Braniff, United, TWA, Pan Am et al) were way more common and somehow a more solid machine.
In any case, great segment - thanks to you and the team!
Was just in the US last month and now recall seeing Air Canada MD-80s in both St Louis and Washington DC. The DC-9 in all its incarnations lives on!
Growing up in Scotland in the 1970's, we predominantly took package holidays to Europe with some sort of charter from Glasgow. More often than not, those were Britannia 737-200's to the Spanish mainland and islands.
It's a type I still love - there's not nearly enough on UA-cam about what the Jurassic's did apart from the last few survivors soldiering on for Canadian gravel runways.
But now and then we would get a surprise, one Spanish trip we had an Aviaco DC-8 which seemed impossibly huge.
In the early eighties we switched our holidays to Yugoslavia and those flights are almost exclusively on Inex Adria DC9's of a similar vintage. It may well have been down to their predominately ex-military crews, but they always felt like sports cars compared to the short stubby Boeings.
I flew on an original DC-9 only once, but had a few flights on various MD-80s and even 717s. When I had the chance to be on a DC-9 in the second half of the 2000s, it was clear that I had to sit all the way in the back to enjoy the JT8D sound, and enjoying it I did.
I also link this aircraft family (at least before the MD-87) to a few very unique sounds, much like today the "barking dog in the cargo hold" PTU sound is something iconic for the A320 family. For one, every time the PA came on, there was this 400 Hz sound overlayed, likely because filtering of the AC power wasn't nearly as good back then. And also when the engines were started up, you could hear the ignition capacitors charge through the PA speakers. Something I have never heard anywhere else. (Some other aircraft had the 400 Hz tone, but not as pronounced as the DC-9s)
The DC9 and the 727 were, and still are, my favorite aircraft design. I was always fascinated with the look of the T-tail and rear mounted jet engines. The 727 cockpit windows and fuselage nose looked really cool as well. Good video, thanks!
The Chinese copying a foreign design? Say it isn't so!
I swear SAS pilots flying these aircraft out of Oslo were training for a top secret Norwegian space programme.
I have flown out of Oslo twice. On both occasions, we went up like a rocket and banked so sharply that we tracked back parallel to the runway from which we had just taken off!
My first experience with the DC9, though, was with Cyprus Air in 1976 just after the punch-up of 1974. As RAF Akrotiri was about 100 miles away on poor roads my parents decided I should fly Cyprus Air to Larnaca rather than the RAF to Akrotiri. Larnaca was only about 15 miles or so from Dhekelia where we lived.
At the time, Nicosia had been the only commercial airport for Cyprus but had been abandoned following the war. It is still abandoned.
Larnaca was then a general aviation airfield but had been pressed into service to replace Nicosia. To say it was basic would be an understatement.
Anyway, Cyprus Air had no maintenance facilities in Cyprus so they had to use Heathrow and hope for the best if problems developed en route.
On my flight, we lost an engine about an hour out of Cyprus. I don't know what the pilots were facing in terms of other potential problems but I remember we came in very hard and fast. The aircraft slammed into the runway bounced three times and raced off the end of the runway into bushland where it eventually came to s stop.
After about 30 minutes, a fleet of tractors arrived from nearby farms to haul the aircraft back. How they managed it I do not know but they got the aircraft back onto the tarmac and it was able to make its way to the terminal under its own power.
My parents were watching all this from the viewing balcony on top of the terminal building. They saw Number 1 son merrily careering down the runway, hopping and skipping as he went and then watched the whole recovery operation unfold.
Needless to say, my Mum put her foot down with a firm hand and I always flew RAF after that, necessitating a 200 mile round road trip for my poor Dad!
The world was a different place back then!
I haven't flown in a DC9 but I have flown in a Caravelle. It was the first flight I ever took, Gatwick to Geneva, back in 1973❤.
1996 first aircraft I ever flew on was a Northwest Airlines MD-80. That was quite the experience sitting near those engines and hearing them spool up.
I flew in a lot of dc-9s and MD-80s over the years. The coolest design to me was the 727, even tho it was NOT a “Whisperjet”. LOL. I thought it was a neat design with short field ability -4800 ft runway I think? Plus the built in stairs in the rear - before that was disabled - but that certainly was useful for small airports. Alas, the noise rules killed it, the engine in the tail couldn’t be modified for those requirements. Sigh.
Thunderjet.
@@davidpowell3347 Haha! Right! Espcially sitting all the way in the back!
Thanks for this video . I flew in the OZARK DC 8 in the 1970’s. Still miss the MD 80 . 🛩 and the DC 9
The interesting thing about the DC-9 is that while it sold more than the 737 initially, its development actually cost Douglas so much money that it had to sell themselves to McDonnell. Paul Eddy's Destination Disaster is a great book to read about how the history of Douglas led up to the DC-10 door problems (though it was released in 1975, so a lot of statistics are outdated).
I think Douglas promised a locked in price for the planes when ordered,meanwhile Vietnam war related inflation caused their cost for building the planes to soar ,eroding their profit.
I used to work for Airborne Express as a Line Service Technician, I will always remember the fun of being around the DC-8’s and DC-9’s. The scream of the 9’s JT8D engines and the bellowing roar of the 8’s JT3D’s in all three variant -3, -3B, and -7 long duct!
The “who let the dogs out” at the beginning sent me lollll
Petter, you have found your calling, my dude! You could literally host an entire network devoted to aviation. We need pilots like you in America to help solve NTSB accidents. It’d be an honor to one day shake your hand.
Yes, the DC-9 was the first airliner I flew in as a passenger, and leaving it through the rear eit felt really cool
I am always impressed with the topics you select, the due diligence in your research and neutral stance. All presented in s manner thats light, fun, yet full of aviation system details for us enthusiasts.
Thank You
I worked at Republic Airlines and then Northwest Airlines and then Delta Airlines through mergers. I retired at the end of July 2020. I spent over 38 years in maintenance. I worked on all of the different DC-9 models and the MD-80's and B-717. I always loved the DC-9, i was able to go on pilot trainer flights and fly the different simulators
de Havilland Canada DHC-6 Twin Otter 😆 It’s now being built in Calgary again. First plane went into service in 1965
Everts Air Cargo and Air Fuel in Alaska actually still operates C-46, DC-6, and MD80, DC9, and MD82/3 aircraft for cargo and tanker operations. I got the pleasure to fly on both the MD80, and the DC-6 many times while working for them. We delivered to extremely remote locations all over Alaska.
You should look into the crash of Everts Air flight N451CE in Candle Alaska. It happened during my time with the company, I remeber it being a particularly harrowing time. I was involved with the recovery of the crew/plane/cargo. Unfortunately the airfram was a total loss.
There is also a video of the crash on youtube if you can find it.
And then subsequently, the DC-9 became the "anyways, here's Wonderwall" of planes.
😂😂
I flew the 'nine' for the first in 1979. The model that was very agile and sensitive on the controls was the 10 series. I well remember my surprise at the performance and the way it felt the first time I flew it. A little rocket. I was lucky enough to spend 11 years on this beautiful aircraft (10 and 30 series). I really enjoyed this video. Thank you, Petter!
DC9s were the mainstay of my childhood flying memories, as there were tons of them flying out of MCI in the 80s and 90s through multiple airlines.
Thank you for wonderful history lesson. Back in the 80s, I flew several time on PSA and i thought those were DC9 (not sure). Then in the 90s, flew a lot on MD80/MD90 up and down the west coast for work. There were wonderful as well. Good memory.
Hi! Thank you for the video about the DC-9 - it was a great memory for me because I was able to fly DC-9s as co-pilot for my first four years (1979-1983). At Swissair we had DC-9-32s and DC-9-51s for passengers, the DC-9-33F for cargo and the DC-9-34 for Balair charters - all cross-licensed. It was a great plane for a young pilot and I really enjoyed it. However, after four years it was easy for me to switch to the MD-80 for a year and then to the DC-10-30(ER) and enjoy long-haul flights for eight years until I upgraded to the PiC on the MD-80!
Great Job Sir, I really enjoy Your channel. I trained as an Aircraft mechanic and learn a lot from You, wanted to be a pilot but never quite got the opportunity. Your videos are very easy to understand and very informative. Keeps Me current on many aspects of aviation. I also like how You share other info on 'life' for instance, mental health, online apps and so forth. Hope to join Your Patreon group soon. Thanks and God bless!!👌👍
0:42 WHO LET THE DOGS OUT... 🤣
The DC-9 will always hold a special place in my memory, as it was the first plane I ever flew on in 1977. I was 12 years old on a school trip to Washington, DC. We flew from Boston to Baltimore (BWI) on a USAir DC-9. I remember sitting in row 1 of the single-class plane and being surprised by how steeply it climbed. More than 3 decades later, my final DC-9 flight was on an American Super 80 from Boston to DFW.