Just so you know, mecha and sand were new abilities added in the remake, and the original rtdl only had ninja dojo and a arcade style shooter that sadly never returned.
I was kinda surprised he never talked about the differences between the original RTDL and the Deluxe edition, since the most obvious one is probably a different artstyle and Dedede's design.
Whenever I see these types of critiques, I'm always left with one lingering question: "what do people want?" I don't mean this to deride your opinion on these games - this is a very thorough and well-constructed analysis and I really enjoyed seeing you dive into just about every aspect they have to offer. That being said, this constant criticism of "oh, it's just more of the same..." it doesn't make sense to me. Each and every one of these games introduces new worlds to explore, creative new level ideas, has their own visual identity (one of the areas in which Star Allies fell flat in comparison), and has new characters and boss fights and cool climaxes all their own. Why, then, is it so bad that they maintain an established gameplay formula and series identity? This isn't like NSMB, which re-uses level tropes, boss fights and music wholesale. This is more akin to Tropical Freeze in contrast to DKCR, a game that just about everyone likes and absolutely *nobody* calls stale or a retread of what's already been done, even though that's objectively what that is in the EXACT same way as this. So what do people *want* ? Is this all a cry for a 3D game? It can't be, because we *have* that now, so you'd think they'd be able to look back and understand the strengths that these games offer in re-establishing the series' identity after a long hiatus of HAL-made Kirby games instead of pining because... we didn't get Forgotten Land sooner? But I've even seen people act like Forgotten Land is the same "formula" as these past few games, and that the series still needs to shift in other ways that they conveniently never detail. I don't get it, I truly don't. These are some of the most inventive 2D platformers I've played; I think people are harsh on Kirby in a way that they simply aren't for other games in the genre (i.e. Donkey Kong as I outlined earlier) and frankly I just don't think it's fair.
"It can't be, because we have that now" how do you think we got that? also was a big change people have wanted. some people are not entirely satisfied with it due to the approach being similar to games like super Mario 3d world, and not like super mario odyssey
Yeah, I'm in agreement with pretty much everything you said. While it's true that these three games share the same design philosophy, each one differs in its presentation, mechanics, side content, story, etc. And just to echo your point from before, the modern Kirby series has managed to stay fresh and interesting despite sticking to an established formula, unlike the NSMB series. Star Allies was one instance where it felt like HAL kinda dropped the ball, but since then, we've seen them prove that they're still capable of delivering creative, unique experiences. I can't help but sense a bit of entitlement from ITOI's thoughts on the "Silver Age of Kirby". I'm not saying that he doesn't make any valid points, but his complaints about how the three games parallel with each other make it seem like he's trying to expose a problem which doesn't exist. In the end, it comes off more as nitpicking than a well-thought-out critique.
Hey just saying, you missed out on the True Arenas of these games. They unlock after you beat EX mode, Dededetour and Meta Knightmare Returns. They are the ULTIMATE challenge of all these games and contain new final forms for the final bosses so I definitely recommend you check them out, I would say they are essential to the Kirby experience.
I’m already disagreeing with the title of the video lol. To me, and many others, this is the golden age of Kirby. The games are all great, and further pushed the series as a whole. While yes, the games don’t differ as much from eachother like say DL1->KA->KSS, I can’t even feel disappointed. There was a clear vision and passion behind the series, something the early 2000s Kirby games were lacking. Hal labs has really only improved. The amount these games have done for the series, such as bringing in so many new fans and just by their sheer quality, make this the best time to be a Kirby fan. Not to mention the Greta amount of stuff we’ve received recently as well. Either way, great video! Love these types of retrospectives, and I always love hearing more about Kirby
The reason he calls it the silver age is what he says at the end of the video: they’re less pioneers and more about refinement. I think the modern entries are a lot better than the classics, but you can’t deny that, aside from storytelling, the Return Era was a somewhat safe one compared to the classic era or even the Flagship Duology.
I think we have been in a golden age since Return to Dreamland, even with a few missteps. After Forgotten Land it doesn't feel like that is going to change, the devs seems to love making Kirby's games too much
Aw, hell yeah! An hour long extensive look at the second rise in the Kirby series timeline, from one of the most underrated channels on the entire platform. Can't wait to dive into this, and hopefully come out with new appreciation for this fantastic trio of games. Keep up the wonderful work, and have a lovely day.
The Kine and Mine masks give Kirby the enhanced water gun at all times when underwater, the game never tells you about it either, so it’s pretty rad easter egg
dang all your content is great, even. though most of your content doesnt get many views you still make content that overpasses most content made by others. I love to binge all of your content, you need to be more appreciated
Ah, the era of the series that made me a fan. Retrospectives of these games are always fun, as HAL Laboratory really knocked it out of the park with (most of) the Return Era. These three games are easily the series’ best entries pre-Forgotten Land and are definitely NOT the silver age. RTDLDX’s new content on top of a solid base game makes this the most content rich title and best remake, Triple Deluxe’s compact and always fun level design and bosses, and everything about Planet Robobot being absolute peak (and actually, Planet Robobot still tops Forgotten Land)… although the way you misname so many abilities and places kind hurts a little bit😅 Actually, truth be told, there were a number of… interesting claims and comparisons made. Like, I HEAVILY disagree on the devs feeing “tired” of the formula by RTDL, this is where Kumazaki came in and lead the team to breathe new LIFE into the series, I would not call Triple Deluxe “stock standard” or “by the numbers” in actual level or boss design, Archer and Ninja are nothing alike… but aside from that, this was a heartwarming retrospective. And many others have said, HIGHLY recommend The True Arenas in each game, they are some of the most fun challenges in the entire series, and can be incredibly brutal.
Halfway through the vid and I don't know if you're going to mention, but archer is one of the most op moves. Holding guard (I think) makes him invincible to most attacks. And that with the charge attack is a great combo
The original Return the Dream Land only had 2 sub-games and Merry Magoland has 10 total with 9 new ones. The Lor Starcutter just added them to have access from the story mode. There’s a consistent lack of knowledge/research in this video
Planet Robobot does have nice themes and ideas, but I personally think the roster of bosses are the least original. Not the least creative, because the game does interesting things with these bosses... *sadly the mid-bosses didn't get the same treatment and behave the exact same as they did in previous games, the only difference being aesthetics. Would've been cool if they attacked differently. But it's just the fact that a grand majority (80%?) of bosses in this game either: -a) Are already existing characters -b) Literally from the last game or so The 2nd world boss is a pretty big offender of this... Triple Deluxe is a bit more original and varied with bosses. But I guess one may percieve Robobot's Re-use of bosses from the last 2 games more as a way to expand on Kirby's world and Lore a bit... Because yeah, the reintroduced bosses get some added lore and clarity (Especially with a secret boss in the Metaknightmare mode) EDIT: had to rephrase comment about mid-bosses
@@EscarBOOM Clanky Woods: is a really cool spectacle and a highlights for sure, but honestly its attacks are quite boring, compared to Flowery Woods, until the last phase (which has no health). Mecha knight: is quite slow and the only struggle is how much health he has, not so much the attacks. (Burning roof attack is neat Though, although it is also easy to avoid seeing the attack by defeating Mecha knight fast enough) D3 clone: the first phase is boring, the second phase is too chaotic its hard to tell what’s going on at times. The Cannon is really *really* boring.
@@EscarBOOM Never said the main returning bosses weren't "spiced up enough", that sentence was referring to the mid-bosses who play the same as they did in Triple Deluxe and Returns to Dreamland. I do wish they got the same treatment as clanky woods and mecha-knight tho... but alas the only changes the mid-bosses got were texture changes But I can see how it could be misread
L opinion on taking return to dream land as a "retread" there’s a reason why it’s lived shame you’re too cowardly to respond and act like you’re always flawless.
Just so you know, mecha and sand were new abilities added in the remake, and the original rtdl only had ninja dojo and a arcade style shooter that sadly never returned.
I was kinda surprised he never talked about the differences between the original RTDL and the Deluxe edition, since the most obvious one is probably a different artstyle and Dedede's design.
@@falendemo546 It seems pretty clear that this is the only version of the game they played, which would make the mistakes here make a lot more sense
Whenever I see these types of critiques, I'm always left with one lingering question: "what do people want?"
I don't mean this to deride your opinion on these games - this is a very thorough and well-constructed analysis and I really enjoyed seeing you dive into just about every aspect they have to offer. That being said, this constant criticism of "oh, it's just more of the same..." it doesn't make sense to me.
Each and every one of these games introduces new worlds to explore, creative new level ideas, has their own visual identity (one of the areas in which Star Allies fell flat in comparison), and has new characters and boss fights and cool climaxes all their own. Why, then, is it so bad that they maintain an established gameplay formula and series identity?
This isn't like NSMB, which re-uses level tropes, boss fights and music wholesale. This is more akin to Tropical Freeze in contrast to DKCR, a game that just about everyone likes and absolutely *nobody* calls stale or a retread of what's already been done, even though that's objectively what that is in the EXACT same way as this.
So what do people *want* ? Is this all a cry for a 3D game? It can't be, because we *have* that now, so you'd think they'd be able to look back and understand the strengths that these games offer in re-establishing the series' identity after a long hiatus of HAL-made Kirby games instead of pining because... we didn't get Forgotten Land sooner?
But I've even seen people act like Forgotten Land is the same "formula" as these past few games, and that the series still needs to shift in other ways that they conveniently never detail.
I don't get it, I truly don't. These are some of the most inventive 2D platformers I've played; I think people are harsh on Kirby in a way that they simply aren't for other games in the genre (i.e. Donkey Kong as I outlined earlier) and frankly I just don't think it's fair.
"It can't be, because we have that now" how do you think we got that? also was a big change people have wanted. some people are not entirely satisfied with it due to the approach being similar to games like super Mario 3d world, and not like super mario odyssey
@@tsu08761e i love it when people reply to my comments fixating on a single sentence instead of taking the message i'm trying to convey as a whole
Yeah, I'm in agreement with pretty much everything you said. While it's true that these three games share the same design philosophy, each one differs in its presentation, mechanics, side content, story, etc.
And just to echo your point from before, the modern Kirby series has managed to stay fresh and interesting despite sticking to an established formula, unlike the NSMB series. Star Allies was one instance where it felt like HAL kinda dropped the ball, but since then, we've seen them prove that they're still capable of delivering creative, unique experiences.
I can't help but sense a bit of entitlement from ITOI's thoughts on the "Silver Age of Kirby". I'm not saying that he doesn't make any valid points, but his complaints about how the three games parallel with each other make it seem like he's trying to expose a problem which doesn't exist. In the end, it comes off more as nitpicking than a well-thought-out critique.
Hey just saying, you missed out on the True Arenas of these games. They unlock after you beat EX mode, Dededetour and Meta Knightmare Returns. They are the ULTIMATE challenge of all these games and contain new final forms for the final bosses so I definitely recommend you check them out, I would say they are essential to the Kirby experience.
They are! I'm baffled
I’m already disagreeing with the title of the video lol. To me, and many others, this is the golden age of Kirby.
The games are all great, and further pushed the series as a whole. While yes, the games don’t differ as much from eachother like say
DL1->KA->KSS, I can’t even feel disappointed. There was a clear vision and passion behind the series, something the early 2000s Kirby games were lacking. Hal labs has really only improved.
The amount these games have done for the series, such as bringing in so many new fans and just by their sheer quality, make this the best time to be a Kirby fan. Not to mention the Greta amount of stuff we’ve received recently as well.
Either way, great video! Love these types of retrospectives, and I always love hearing more about Kirby
The reason he calls it the silver age is what he says at the end of the video: they’re less pioneers and more about refinement. I think the modern entries are a lot better than the classics, but you can’t deny that, aside from storytelling, the Return Era was a somewhat safe one compared to the classic era or even the Flagship Duology.
I think we have been in a golden age since Return to Dreamland, even with a few missteps. After Forgotten Land it doesn't feel like that is going to change, the devs seems to love making Kirby's games too much
Aw, hell yeah! An hour long extensive look at the second rise in the Kirby series timeline, from one of the most underrated channels on the entire platform. Can't wait to dive into this, and hopefully come out with new appreciation for this fantastic trio of games. Keep up the wonderful work, and have a lovely day.
Surely you know about true arena right?? That's the white knuckle challenge you're looking for, especially in this remake with extra bosses
As someone else has already said, you missed out on the True Arenas, which are quite challenging (especially Planet Robobot's)
The Kine and Mine masks give Kirby the enhanced water gun at all times when underwater, the game never tells you about it either, so it’s pretty rad easter egg
Such a great deep dive. Really enjoyed listening to this 🙏🏼
this is a super underrated video
dang all your content is great, even. though most of your content doesnt get many views you still make content that overpasses most content made by others. I love to binge all of your content, you need to be more appreciated
I missed your content man glad to see this new video!!
Great video brother 🐐 Keep it up (or maybe just relax for a bit!)
great video, really enjoyed it ^^
Ah, the era of the series that made me a fan. Retrospectives of these games are always fun, as HAL Laboratory really knocked it out of the park with (most of) the Return Era. These three games are easily the series’ best entries pre-Forgotten Land and are definitely NOT the silver age. RTDLDX’s new content on top of a solid base game makes this the most content rich title and best remake, Triple Deluxe’s compact and always fun level design and bosses, and everything about Planet Robobot being absolute peak (and actually, Planet Robobot still tops Forgotten Land)… although the way you misname so many abilities and places kind hurts a little bit😅
Actually, truth be told, there were a number of… interesting claims and comparisons made. Like, I HEAVILY disagree on the devs feeing “tired” of the formula by RTDL, this is where Kumazaki came in and lead the team to breathe new LIFE into the series, I would not call Triple Deluxe “stock standard” or “by the numbers” in actual level or boss design, Archer and Ninja are nothing alike… but aside from that, this was a heartwarming retrospective.
And many others have said, HIGHLY recommend The True Arenas in each game, they are some of the most fun challenges in the entire series, and can be incredibly brutal.
Halfway through the vid and I don't know if you're going to mention, but archer is one of the most op moves. Holding guard (I think) makes him invincible to most attacks. And that with the charge attack is a great combo
Oh shit new ITOI video! Click
This my dude was pretty damn good, I really gotta get those 3ds kirbys but they ain't cheap rip lol.
Honesty I now wonder how's your thoughts on the Kirby spin-offs, especially the Game Boy and 3DS ones.
Great video! It definitely deserves more love!!!
Downloading this right now! Gonna listen to while working
i love planet robobot, honestly i will be very surprised if hal ever manages to top that game. star allies and forgotten land just don't hit the same
People would absolutely argue in favor of Forgotten Land over Planet Robobot and honestly I love that
I'm still waiting for Kirby Epic Yarn discussions 😢
57:41 you’re the one who’s jaywalking
What's the music in the beginning of the video? It's slipping my mind
HE CALLED MR.DOOTER MID
commenting again for the algorithm
The original Return the Dream Land only had 2 sub-games and Merry Magoland has 10 total with 9 new ones. The Lor Starcutter just added them to have access from the story mode. There’s a consistent lack of knowledge/research in this video
The minigames are new to the remake
Kirby :]
why does magolor makes me feel funny tho
❤❤
It's taranza lol not tarzanna
Planet Robobot does have nice themes and ideas, but I personally think the roster of bosses are the least original. Not the least creative, because the game does interesting things with these bosses... *sadly the mid-bosses didn't get the same treatment and behave the exact same as they did in previous games, the only difference being aesthetics. Would've been cool if they attacked differently. But it's just the fact that a grand majority (80%?) of bosses in this game either:
-a) Are already existing characters
-b) Literally from the last game or so
The 2nd world boss is a pretty big offender of this...
Triple Deluxe is a bit more original and varied with bosses. But I guess one may percieve Robobot's Re-use of bosses from the last 2 games more as a way to expand on Kirby's world and Lore a bit... Because yeah, the reintroduced bosses get some added lore and clarity (Especially with a secret boss in the Metaknightmare mode)
EDIT: had to rephrase comment about mid-bosses
Please tell me how Clanky Woods, Mecha Knight or D3 are not "spiced up" enough
@@EscarBOOM
Clanky Woods: is a really cool spectacle and a highlights for sure, but honestly its attacks are quite boring, compared to Flowery Woods, until the last phase (which has no health).
Mecha knight: is quite slow and the only struggle is how much health he has, not so much the attacks. (Burning roof attack is neat Though, although it is also easy to avoid seeing the attack by defeating Mecha knight fast enough)
D3 clone: the first phase is boring, the second phase is too chaotic its hard to tell what’s going on at times. The Cannon is really *really* boring.
@@nonamer6621 Skill issue
@@EscarBOOM are you sure?
@@EscarBOOM Never said the main returning bosses weren't "spiced up enough", that sentence was referring to the mid-bosses who play the same as they did in Triple Deluxe and Returns to Dreamland.
I do wish they got the same treatment as clanky woods and mecha-knight tho... but alas the only changes the mid-bosses got were texture changes
But I can see how it could be misread
*Promo SM*
L opinion on taking return to dream land as a "retread" there’s a reason why it’s lived shame you’re too cowardly to respond and act like you’re always flawless.