This bayonet also serves as a short sword in the Falcata and or Kukri style. That curve helps concentrate the strike force. Side note: the Spanish FR-8 bayonet has the Falcata pattern recurve.
Not falcata or kukri style, the blade is officially named a Yatagan style blade. That is a bit akin to a jukri or falcata in that it is recurve, but that's about it.
Michiel Prak On,on ,Porthos! On,Athos ! Oh for Ian to have had a bit part in the Three Musketeers of Raquel Welch and Spike Milligan. Cannot remember the year,early 1980s,but one of the funnier adventure movies going. Mind you he was probably too young,but Ian with a bayonet from the Bayonne iron works would be really something.
Richard Lester's The Three Musketeers: Queen's Diamonds were released in 1973 and The Four Musketeers: Milady's Revenge in 1974. I have never seen any other TTM adaptation whole, but I'll be damned if this one isn't the best. No one can beat Christopher Lee as Rochefort! (Except Michael york as d'Artagnan).
Václav Fejt You are of course quite correct. What I am remembering was renting those movies on VHS. Apparently the story goes is that the Four Musketeers sequel was made because all of the movie people were having such a marvelous time they did not wish to stop. The first movie is so delicious the flaws in the second were inconsequential. Glad you enjoyed them as much as I did.
Nah, they wanted to shoot one long film, but couldn't make the deadline, so they released one part first and the other later. It actually angered the actors, because nobody told them about it - and they were only being paid for one film. It set a precedent for contracts. - Btw. I remember it on a VHS too, recorded off TV, in the early 2000's.
You are absolutely correct about the muzzle clearance. And the curve in the blade does give is a bit better slashing ability at the sweet spot. Along the same lines as the Kuhkri. Sir Richard Burton covers this in his seminal "The Book of the Sword"
Ian, some yatagans do have second curve. They are rare, but they are there. vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/raamaturott/images/d/dd/Yataghan.png/revision/latest?cb=20140919184846&path-prefix=et upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Jatagan_1.jpg i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ADUAAOSwq~tZV6yj/s-l1600.jpg
Nice, The french 1842 pattern Yatagan bayonet was used with the RIFLED 1842 muzzleloader carbine "carabine de chasseur modèle 1842". The standard 1842 pattern SMOOTHBORE muzzleloaders had a spike baionette.
A very knowledgeable weapons collector I knew when I was a kid told me the curve was made to allow the blade to slide under a charging horse's breastbone when the butt of the rifle was planted into the ground, like a pike. Made sense at the time!
Some Forgotten Weapons days are three minute days, and some are thirty. But all are good days. I really enjoy the shorts! It brings bits of knowledge into focus that might not be substantive enough to warrant a longer video.
I don't believe you're correct on the reasoning for the curve. The Yataghan bayonet is clearly styled after the Yataghan sword. The purpose of what is called an incurved blade is for cutting. This would still be effective as a bayonet. As a matter of fact, I would suggest that it loses almost nothing for thrusting and gains quite a lot for the purposes of cutting. Using the Incurve design and attaching it to a long lever (the rifle) would significantly aid cuts and chops.
As for why they switched to straight blades I think that's actually easy if considering the historical context. In WWI many of the traditional military knives were of a typically single edge with a slight curve (kind of like bowie). There was an issue with these kinds of knives being able to pierce the thick coats often worn in the trenches (mostly by the Germans). The switch to straight bladed knives was made in order to more easily pierce this coats. This is where the "Trench Knife" was invented. After WWI this style of knife became the norm. For obvious reasons, this would apply to the Bayonets as well.
Makes sense. Oh and it looks cool too. I am not sure what word they used for "cool" back then, but I am sure it was relevant when it came to weapon designing. At least as relevant as today.
I fully agree with you! As usual, the serious need made the new innovation, and always that the first step in the process of deduction "why?" and "for what?"
the fuller down the middle is what strengthens the blade. it has a cross section like an i-beam. this is necessary when you have such a long thin blade, otherwise the blade would be to heavy to use effectively.
I dispute that it doesn't make for a good sword, as the original Yataghan is actually a Turkish sword en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yatagan The curve also helps with slashing, especially drawcuts, since now, unlike mode curved blades that curve away from the victim, this just bites extra deep
No matter whether the original swords are good or not, bayonets typically have extremely thick profiles leading to a very blunt edge (because they're stabbing weapons) and are too light for a sword. So even if the thing they're named after is a good sword, they themselves would not be.
AdstarAPAD It isn't about the tip, for a slash. The Chassepot, and even better, the Danish Rolling Block Yataghan, have the belly of the curve right at the center of percussion. This enables WICKED draw cuts, just like other curved (and recurved) swords. What the yataghan allows is cuts like a curved blade, thrusts like a straight one, and all the advantages Ian noted. Only drawback is they are too heavy. Thus the Gras, etc. (Take a close look at my avatar pic).
looking at that one it seems to be about as broad and thick as some Tulwar blades, use it to slash while still on the rifle and it would be one hell of a nasty polearm.
Based on a traditional Turkish sword design. The bayonet makes a wicked-looking short sword. The French bayonets have good steel that takes a good edge.
Can't help thinking that a committee was involved with this bayonet design. It would've been much easier just to offset the bayonet lugs by a couple of inches. Thank you Ian for another Forgotten Weapons accessory video. I like these as much as the actual gun videos as they record some of the forgotten aspects of guns. :>)
I just bought one for my 1879 Argentine RRB last month. I also have 2 Toledo, Spain Artillery Swords from the late 1800s that used this type of blade but heavier and without the "T" rib at the top.
Yataghan's are all shaped that way, some more prominent than others. The reason for this with the swords was to aid in the cutting capacity. I do bet that not stabbing yourself when reloading was a major selling point into its adoption as a bayonet.
It's also just an efficiency issue in reloading, that the bayonet isn't getting in the way of trying to ram the charge - skinned knuckles were a common complaint of troopers quick-loading weapons with bayonets fixed.
I like this format of video. Not everything needs a 20 minute long history lesson. Don't get me wrong, I love the 20 minute history lessons but this is cool too.
Reminds me of when I go out to a seafood restaurant, and somebody orders mussels. They'll usually eschew eating the mussels that are closed, saying they're "bad" or were dead when cooked. And it all comes from some 1970's cookbook where some lady took a wild guess, and then the myth became repeated as "common knowledge." Yet, even when you tell people this, they'll say the mussels taste bad and are "rotten," totally neglecting the obvious-- because the shell remained closed during cooking, the sauce didn't enter the meat, and so a more seawatery taste is prevalent... easily solved by dunking the mussel in the sauce. I've seen people throw out up to a third of their food because the mythology mesmerization is so strong and "just makes sense" to them. So, despite Ian pointing out an incredibly obvious and practical truth, I am sure I will continue to read all kinds of weird suppositions for bayonet curvatures. Anyhoo, thanks for a dose of sanity in an insane world, Ian! Be safe.
Ah, so it does have a purpose. In the heat and excitement of battle it would certainly be possible to shove your hand down on tbe bayonet point. Glad the designers and engineers were keeping the common soldier in mind. They so often don't. Great video as always. Thank you
curved blades also give a better cutting ability. after that first volley you may not have time to reload on a charge, then the gun becomes essentially a poll arm and a club
My grandparents have a bayonet like this hanging in their house. I don't know how they got it, but it has some latin script on the blade and I always assumed it was curved like some sort of Civil War era cavalry sabre. Really informative video
@@cymond Well, ur in luck. I was gifted the sword recently but had forgotten all about it. I checked it out and the engraving along the spine reads in french, "Mre. D’Armes St. Etienne-Ouib(t) 1873". Not sure on the last word. The blade seems almost identical to the bayonet shown in the video, but it has a totally metal handle, guard, and sheath with no bayonet attachment. The decorative handle depicts a suit of armour with two halberds crossed behind it. Pretty neat; thanks for the prompt to check it out!
@@ekzpo3876 That's French, and it basically says "Manufacturer of Arms, Saint-Etienne". St-Etienne is a city in France. It sounds a lot like a model 1866 Chassepot bayonet (which were still being made in 1873), but the fact that it doesn't have a bayonet mount is *weird* . I have a genuine 1906 US Cavalry saber, which are worth a few thousand dollars in good condition. Unfortunately, somebody in the past decided to *paint* it, and restoring it would cost a fortune.
I've got 2 of these (One Chassepot bayonet, and a one for a Swedish Remington Rolling Block). I was always under the impression that the French adopted the yataghan style because they thought it looked cool, and then everyone copied them because they figured France, a perennial powerhouse, knew what it was doing when it came to weapons design.
My failure to recognise the presence of a colon in the title, caused me substantial confusion initially. Because bro, there ain't no such thing as a Short Yataghan Bayonet. Awesome vid though, as always.
....now, wait a minute. I just picked up an Enfield 1961 musketoon and was wondering about this bayonet, and how I didn't like this design. Small world.
Totally logical, but maybe you still get the "sabre" slashing dynamics from the blade when used as a sword? (In addition to the "thrust"). Also does the bayonet blade (on any rifle) impinge on the balistics of the bulet as it leaves the barrel? personally I love the Yataghan "aesthetic" and it still lives on (in a more subtle form) in the French Opinel pen knife. (thanks for reading :-)
Why would leaders wanted that their soldiers shoot and reload while their bayonets are attached to the bore? Until now I tought after the "fix bayonets" command there was only melee fighting. I mean way back then, in the era of muzzle loading muskets/rifles...you know what I mean.
that's an interesting theory but I fear the French muzzleloaders used all a spike bayonet and the yataghan bayonets started to be used only with the 1st breechloaders
+veuzou, in 1842 the French Chasseurs (elite light infantry) received a RIFLED muzzleloading carbine with a yatagan style bayonet. The standard SMOOTHBORE muzzleloaders had a spike bayonet.
I disagree, it can make a pretty good sword. Speaking from a blade perspective, the curve can be an advantage in some ways, for example being able to attack around any blocks the opponent puts up, found in weapons like the kukri and falcata. However, how often that would be a relevant advantage during a much more sudden and rush type of combat makes it a fairly moot(US) point. Great video!
As opposed to the british who had a straight blade on a pole that was offset 90 degrees. And if you had a baker I think they assumed that if you were having to use your bayonet things were going south anyway
Yeah, I don't think that the members of Royal Rifle Corps fixed their bayonets in combat very often. I think it was used as sword more often than it was used as a bayonet.
AldanFerrox the 95th were expected to fight in square with regular infantry thats why their sword was so honking long, but if you are in square things are going south.
Why would things be going south just because you're in a square? Square was formed to repel cavalry charges, and they were excellent in this regard. And just because you are receiving a cavalry charge doesn't mean the battle has gone south.
Gilmaris as a light infantryman it means things are going badly if youve been caught out in a cavalry charge. Line infantry sure it might not necesserily mean things are going badly for you but one generally doesnt deploy cavalry against infantry that is well organised, at Waterloo (for instance) Ney assumed the british were in disarray, unless its alone or you think you can break it before it goes into square as happened at Quatre Bras. What perhaps I should state is if you are in a square as a rifleman you arent going to be reloading. You are a pikeblock at that point, the smoothbores can do the shooting.
keith moore at 3 rounds a minute absolute maximum with a rifle you could still face an effective charge. Yes the range made it less likely it wouldnt make it through but thats not guaranteed.
Great video ian, but rather than it being to avoid the pointy end would the curve not be to accommodate a clenched fist on the ram rod? I'm in the uk so I'm not sure how much force you would need to load a muzzle loader!
This bayonet also serves as a short sword in the Falcata and or Kukri style. That curve helps concentrate the strike force. Side note: the Spanish FR-8 bayonet has the Falcata pattern recurve.
Not falcata or kukri style, the blade is officially named a Yatagan style blade.
That is a bit akin to a jukri or falcata in that it is recurve, but that's about it.
@@simonmagnum7821 that’s why I said “style” and not that it IS a falcata. Thanks for the name update.
Yup, I thought of slashing too.
Ian really looks like a french musketeer. All he needs is the clothes and stand at a castle.
Michiel Prak On,on ,Porthos! On,Athos ! Oh for Ian to have had a bit part in the Three Musketeers of Raquel Welch and Spike Milligan. Cannot remember the year,early 1980s,but one of the funnier adventure movies going. Mind you he was probably too young,but Ian with a bayonet from the Bayonne iron works would be really something.
Richard Lester's The Three Musketeers: Queen's Diamonds were released in 1973 and The Four Musketeers: Milady's Revenge in 1974. I have never seen any other TTM adaptation whole, but I'll be damned if this one isn't the best. No one can beat Christopher Lee as Rochefort! (Except Michael york as d'Artagnan).
Václav Fejt You are of course quite correct. What I am remembering was renting those movies on VHS. Apparently the story goes is that the Four Musketeers sequel was made because all of the movie people were having such a marvelous time they did not wish to stop. The first movie is so delicious the flaws in the second were inconsequential. Glad you enjoyed them as much as I did.
Nah, they wanted to shoot one long film, but couldn't make the deadline, so they released one part first and the other later. It actually angered the actors, because nobody told them about it - and they were only being paid for one film. It set a precedent for contracts.
-
Btw. I remember it on a VHS too, recorded off TV, in the early 2000's.
I even liked Charlton Heston as Cardinal Richelieu; it was a bit of a stretch for his normal range, but I thought he played it well.
You are absolutely correct about the muzzle clearance. And the curve in the blade does give is a bit better slashing ability at the sweet spot. Along the same lines as the Kuhkri.
Sir Richard Burton covers this in his seminal "The Book of the Sword"
Ian is an original. He speaks in complete sentences, he's knowledgeable and he's a model of clarity.
This video was very on point.
boo
the Yataghan is originally a Turkish sword, they were curved to make it easier to wear and to give more powerful cuts.
Note that the swords do not have the second recurve that the bayonets do.
Ian, some yatagans do have second curve. They are rare, but they are there.
vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/raamaturott/images/d/dd/Yataghan.png/revision/latest?cb=20140919184846&path-prefix=et
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Jatagan_1.jpg
i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ADUAAOSwq~tZV6yj/s-l1600.jpg
Nice, The french 1842 pattern Yatagan bayonet was used with the RIFLED 1842 muzzleloader carbine "carabine de chasseur modèle 1842". The standard 1842 pattern SMOOTHBORE muzzleloaders had a spike baionette.
You've just solved a major family mystery. We've had one of these in the family for 100+ years and never knew why it "wobbled". Ta!
Can I mount one on a Webley revolver?
Stu Saville does this fit on a glock?
I prefer to mount brunettes on a sofa
No, but there are Webley revolvers that accept bayonets.
edi have you looked at the rail mount pistol bayonets?
Mount a bayonet on a Beretta.
A very knowledgeable weapons collector I knew when I was a kid told me the curve was made to allow the blade to slide under a charging horse's breastbone when the butt of the rifle was planted into the ground, like a pike. Made sense at the time!
Some Forgotten Weapons days are three minute days, and some are thirty. But all are good days. I really enjoy the shorts! It brings bits of knowledge into focus that might not be substantive enough to warrant a longer video.
I don't believe you're correct on the reasoning for the curve. The Yataghan bayonet is clearly styled after the Yataghan sword. The purpose of what is called an incurved blade is for cutting. This would still be effective as a bayonet. As a matter of fact, I would suggest that it loses almost nothing for thrusting and gains quite a lot for the purposes of cutting. Using the Incurve design and attaching it to a long lever (the rifle) would significantly aid cuts and chops.
As for why they switched to straight blades I think that's actually easy if considering the historical context. In WWI many of the traditional military knives were of a typically single edge with a slight curve (kind of like bowie). There was an issue with these kinds of knives being able to pierce the thick coats often worn in the trenches (mostly by the Germans). The switch to straight bladed knives was made in order to more easily pierce this coats. This is where the "Trench Knife" was invented. After WWI this style of knife became the norm. For obvious reasons, this would apply to the Bayonets as well.
I'm Turkish and I didn't know this existed. Fascinating. Thanks Ian!
I went to a museum a few years ago and I though these were warped or badly made. I feel like an idiot now.
Makes sense. Oh and it looks cool too. I am not sure what word they used for "cool" back then, but I am sure it was relevant when it came to weapon designing. At least as relevant as today.
I fully agree with you! As usual, the serious need made the new innovation, and always that the first step in the process of deduction "why?" and "for what?"
the fuller down the middle is what strengthens the blade. it has a cross section like an i-beam. this is necessary when you have such a long thin blade, otherwise the blade would be to heavy to use effectively.
Thank you I learn all the time with your videos Ian.I learned with books and thought I knew my weapons,nowadays with your videos I keep learning.
Matt Easton of Scholagladiatoria just did a video on these blades. The two of y'all really need to do a video together.
The point of these bayonets was to miss the point. So, they weren't pointless.
I dispute that it doesn't make for a good sword, as the original Yataghan is actually a Turkish sword en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yatagan The curve also helps with slashing, especially drawcuts, since now, unlike mode curved blades that curve away from the victim, this just bites extra deep
Christoffer Öberg curve is a different shape
No matter whether the original swords are good or not, bayonets typically have extremely thick profiles leading to a very blunt edge (because they're stabbing weapons) and are too light for a sword. So even if the thing they're named after is a good sword, they themselves would not be.
AdstarAPAD It isn't about the tip, for a slash. The Chassepot, and even better, the Danish Rolling Block Yataghan, have the belly of the curve right at the center of percussion. This enables WICKED draw cuts, just like other curved (and recurved) swords. What the yataghan allows is cuts like a curved blade, thrusts like a straight one, and all the advantages Ian noted.
Only drawback is they are too heavy. Thus the Gras, etc. (Take a close look at my avatar pic).
looking at that one it seems to be about as broad and thick as some Tulwar blades, use it to slash while still on the rifle and it would be one hell of a nasty polearm.
There is always someone who will argue about anything. Good luck in life.
Based on a traditional Turkish sword design. The bayonet makes a wicked-looking short sword. The French bayonets have good steel that takes a good edge.
isn't the yataghan traditionally a balkan or ottoman style of knife with a similar curve?
Yes.
I liked the concept of short vídeos
wearing form-fitting black because he's adding to his collection later … about 2am when the guards change at the Rock Island Auction Company.
Can't help thinking that a committee was involved with this bayonet design. It would've been much easier just to offset the bayonet lugs by a couple of inches. Thank you Ian for another Forgotten Weapons accessory video. I like these as much as the actual gun videos as they record some of the forgotten aspects of guns. :>)
Yataghans were excellent swords
I just bought one for my 1879 Argentine RRB last month. I also have 2 Toledo, Spain Artillery Swords from the late 1800s that used this type of blade but heavier and without the "T" rib at the top.
Thanks for yet another interesting video, one of my favourite UA-cam channels, better than anything on mainstream broadcasting too
Cool explanation. Never even thought about the reloading problem.
this design is also reminiscent of the Greek kopis, which was a very good cutting sword.
Yataghan's are all shaped that way, some more prominent than others. The reason for this with the swords was to aid in the cutting capacity. I do bet that not stabbing yourself when reloading was a major selling point into its adoption as a bayonet.
A large, utilitarian space, lots of blades, and Ian in black ninja gear; is this his secret underground dojo?
I like this style, as well as the bolo.
Short and to the point, nice.
Also adds a little more mass. Beneficial if you find yourself needing to hack away at shrubs, ropes, enemy soldiers etc.
This was a really interesting to look at, I'm a person who really enjoys bladed weaponry and of you were to cover more bayonets I'd really like that
It's also just an efficiency issue in reloading, that the bayonet isn't getting in the way of trying to ram the charge - skinned knuckles were a common complaint of troopers quick-loading weapons with bayonets fixed.
Holy footbally, that's a fucking sword at this length.
the curve makes a slashing stroke when hand held more effective
I always learn something when I watch Forgotten weapons . Thanks Ian & Team.
I own one of these bayonets, they handle pretty nice when you put your index finger over the cross guard like you would with a side sword.
Thanks Ian, I really enjoy your channel
My uncle has one of this from one of my Ancestors. Now I know where it's from! Thanks!!!
I like this format of video. Not everything needs a 20 minute long history lesson. Don't get me wrong, I love the 20 minute history lessons but this is cool too.
I have one of these and have often wondered "why?" the tip was offset like it is - now I know!! Thank you!
Never would have thought of that, good lesson
I think you nailed it
Never knew these existed. Thank you
Ian really made a lot of good points on this one! *runs*
I actually have one of these and knew very little about it. Thanks!
Reminds me of when I go out to a seafood restaurant, and somebody orders mussels. They'll usually eschew eating the mussels that are closed, saying they're "bad" or were dead when cooked. And it all comes from some 1970's cookbook where some lady took a wild guess, and then the myth became repeated as "common knowledge." Yet, even when you tell people this, they'll say the mussels taste bad and are "rotten," totally neglecting the obvious-- because the shell remained closed during cooking, the sauce didn't enter the meat, and so a more seawatery taste is prevalent... easily solved by dunking the mussel in the sauce. I've seen people throw out up to a third of their food because the mythology mesmerization is so strong and "just makes sense" to them. So, despite Ian pointing out an incredibly obvious and practical truth, I am sure I will continue to read all kinds of weird suppositions for bayonet curvatures. Anyhoo, thanks for a dose of sanity in an insane world, Ian! Be safe.
with the curve at the end, used as a sword theres alot of cutting power in that bend also.
Ah, so it does have a purpose. In the heat and excitement of battle it would certainly be possible to shove your hand down on tbe bayonet point. Glad the designers and engineers were keeping the common soldier in mind. They so often don't. Great video as always. Thank you
Great short video.
curved blades also give a better cutting ability. after that first volley you may not have time to reload on a charge, then the gun becomes essentially a poll arm and a club
I'm so glad you made this video, I inherited two of these from my grandfather :D
My grandparents have a bayonet like this hanging in their house. I don't know how they got it, but it has some latin script on the blade and I always assumed it was curved like some sort of Civil War era cavalry sabre. Really informative video
Or would be great if you can find out what it says. Translations are easy in the tech age.
@@cymond Well, ur in luck. I was gifted the sword recently but had forgotten all about it. I checked it out and the engraving along the spine reads in french, "Mre. D’Armes St. Etienne-Ouib(t) 1873". Not sure on the last word. The blade seems almost identical to the bayonet shown in the video, but it has a totally metal handle, guard, and sheath with no bayonet attachment. The decorative handle depicts a suit of armour with two halberds crossed behind it. Pretty neat; thanks for the prompt to check it out!
@@ekzpo3876 That's French, and it basically says "Manufacturer of Arms, Saint-Etienne". St-Etienne is a city in France.
It sounds a lot like a model 1866 Chassepot bayonet (which were still being made in 1873), but the fact that it doesn't have a bayonet mount is *weird* .
I have a genuine 1906 US Cavalry saber, which are worth a few thousand dollars in good condition. Unfortunately, somebody in the past decided to *paint* it, and restoring it would cost a fortune.
I've got 2 of these (One Chassepot bayonet, and a one for a Swedish Remington Rolling Block). I was always under the impression that the French adopted the yataghan style because they thought it looked cool, and then everyone copied them because they figured France, a perennial powerhouse, knew what it was doing when it came to weapons design.
I've never seen Ian wear a shirt that fits well
Yay for Ian!
It is shaped similarly to the ancient Kopis design of short sword/large knife, and probably has similarly devastating properties
Also it looks pretty cool. Like osman-turkish conqueror's blade. Yalla!
As soon as you said for a muzzle loader I put 2 and 2 together then sent it to my scientists and came back with 4. :)
Thank you for the history lesson
it's pronounced yataaan. great short as always.
Thanks for that explanation,
Most informative
and
Most interesting!
A curve helps deepen a pushed or drawn cut, it's why Arabic swords are curved. I guess maybe the slashing cut was replaced with just a stab.
That's a bloody short-sword that happens to fit on a rifle!
Short, sweet, effective.
My failure to recognise the presence of a colon in the title, caused me substantial confusion initially. Because bro, there ain't no such thing as a Short Yataghan Bayonet. Awesome vid though, as always.
That black was very slimming
Actually I learned two things about them. 1. They exist. 2. Why they exist.
Damn that looks brutal
....now, wait a minute. I just picked up an Enfield 1961 musketoon and was wondering about this bayonet, and how I didn't like this design. Small world.
Maybe 1861????
Man I love a long rifle with a long bayonet
I really need a sheath for my chassepot bayonet. Also a rifle would be cool to go with it.
Totally logical, but maybe you still get the "sabre" slashing dynamics from the blade when used as a sword? (In addition to the "thrust"). Also does the bayonet blade (on any rifle) impinge on the balistics of the bulet as it leaves the barrel? personally I love the Yataghan "aesthetic" and it still lives on (in a more subtle form) in the French Opinel pen knife. (thanks for reading :-)
Thanks Ian, now I feel I need one. Trouble is there are Ottoman blades too. A real rabbit hole.
Why would leaders wanted that their soldiers shoot and reload while their bayonets are attached to the bore?
Until now I tought after the "fix bayonets" command there was only melee fighting. I mean way back then, in the era of muzzle loading muskets/rifles...you know what I mean.
I thought you did a video on this already ? Still a good video , Thank you .
Hey I have one of those somewhere. No scabbard but still... pretty schweet.
i have a long one of these from 1868!!
that's an interesting theory but I fear the French muzzleloaders used all a spike bayonet and the yataghan bayonets started to be used only with the 1st breechloaders
+veuzou, in 1842 the French Chasseurs (elite light infantry) received a RIFLED muzzleloading carbine with a yatagan style bayonet. The standard SMOOTHBORE muzzleloaders had a spike bayonet.
Oh great, Ian is talking about bayonets YATAGHAN!!
Pons aren't as effective in writing but you should get it.
Funny but....Maybe you mean "PUNS"
I always wondered. Thanks.
That is fascinating.
I disagree, it can make a pretty good sword. Speaking from a blade perspective, the curve can be an advantage in some ways, for example being able to attack around any blocks the opponent puts up, found in weapons like the kukri and falcata. However, how often that would be a relevant advantage during a much more sudden and rush type of combat makes it a fairly moot(US) point. Great video!
I now want a Khopesh bayonet.
British snider rifles used that or something similar believe.
Cool thing but I wonder if they would be better suited to a slashing attack then the standard bayonet.
Any reason why there would be a M1A under the serial number on a French 1866 one
As opposed to the british who had a straight blade on a pole that was offset 90 degrees.
And if you had a baker I think they assumed that if you were having to use your bayonet things were going south anyway
Yeah, I don't think that the members of Royal Rifle Corps fixed their bayonets in combat very often. I think it was used as sword more often than it was used as a bayonet.
AldanFerrox the 95th were expected to fight in square with regular infantry thats why their sword was so honking long, but if you are in square things are going south.
Why would things be going south just because you're in a square? Square was formed to repel cavalry charges, and they were excellent in this regard. And just because you are receiving a cavalry charge doesn't mean the battle has gone south.
Gilmaris as a light infantryman it means things are going badly if youve been caught out in a cavalry charge. Line infantry sure it might not necesserily mean things are going badly for you but one generally doesnt deploy cavalry against infantry that is well organised, at Waterloo (for instance) Ney assumed the british were in disarray, unless its alone or you think you can break it before it goes into square as happened at Quatre Bras.
What perhaps I should state is if you are in a square as a rifleman you arent going to be reloading. You are a pikeblock at that point, the smoothbores can do the shooting.
keith moore at 3 rounds a minute absolute maximum with a rifle you could still face an effective charge. Yes the range made it less likely it wouldnt make it through but thats not guaranteed.
I noticed the british wartime diet did not hurt your silhouette.
Great video ian, but rather than it being to avoid the pointy end would the curve not be to accommodate a clenched fist on the ram rod?
I'm in the uk so I'm not sure how much force you would need to load a muzzle loader!
Bayonet Jesus? John the Stabber? Ian of the cutty clan?
Interesting way of solving a problem by simply bending the bayonet.
Great info, the “ahh haa” moment. Thanks for posting!👍🏼
Short and to the point....
Ian, I don't care what they say about you, I like you