Why Visions of Mana Is Avoiding 'Westernizing' The Game
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- Опубліковано 1 кві 2024
- This video takes a look at a new interview with Masaru Oyamada - producer of Visions of Mana.
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Automaton's report:
automaton-media.com/en/news/v...
Automaton's full interview:
automaton-media.com/en/interv... - Ігри
Even the west doesn't like the "Westernizing" of western games.
Western games are adjusted to the twisted view of a small group of malevolent people in the West.
It's so bizarre Western companies are speaking on our behalf. Japan needs to understand there's a conflict between the gaming audience and studios acting as moral busy-bodies.
The audience and the Western companies speaking on behalf of the audience have different and incompatible tastes.@@NekoBoyOfficial
@@NekoBoyOfficial The problem is that Japanese companies are doing the exact same thing. Square Enix says they're not "westernizing" the game, but that's exactly what they've done for every single one of their franchises for the last 20 yrs.
(((Westernizing)))
I don't want it to focus on my cultural upbringing or find it relatable. There's a reason why I liked the JRPG genre and why I only like a few now.
Travis :D
Jrpg should stayed with their own identity,(should just followed the formula during the best era for Jrpg like 90s till late 2000s while tweaking there and here a bit)
Just don't forget that calling it a Jrpg is offensive to japanese....but I'm more shocked its coming to xbox. Squareenix hates Microsoft.
@@Zero_Tester 99% of it is localizers fault.. JP still gets JP version of the game, we get murican version of the game.. sad.
@@clarafedde8674 literally one guy said this once a few years ago and you people krep parotting this bs lmao.
theres thousands of "why" they shouldn't. props on them for chosing success.
Exactly, having games have to skew so much from a original vision the development team had due to a certain group of people throw a pissy fit over things that dont fit thar limited scope, whether its to get `moneyz` from that limited group or to not step on that group`s toes is so stupid.
Innovation and intruiging things are always about doing something outside of so-called comfort zones cause it lets people get excited for those things, have a much different experience from some other generic title and help to actually separate itself from the `pack` of these so called Westernization triple A games that end up feeling like whatever polish that could of originally been present was so sanded down you feel a massive disconect on something like the visuals vs the voice & text attached to it.
And i still get extremely annoyed by groups like these that also wanna spout crap like `rewriting games`, `having severe racist boners, while saying they totally aren`t` and `only freaking afloat because they abuse exploits to steal `easy money` from certain policies and thats the only reason they are in a group they despise, when they rather be hypocrites because they dont wanna work at a fastfood joint or retail store.`
Which atleast those 2 damn places would fking suplex those kind of people into the mantle of the earth if they brought said politices & ramblings to a `wendies` or mc donalds.
Capcom tried this years ago and it failed. People buy western games for a western experience and they buy Japanese games for a Japanese gaming experience. I wouldn't want to go to Japan just to eat a regular McDonald's meal.
Don't talk smack about JP McDonald's, the stuff they have unique to there isn't so bad!
Jokes aside, "Westernization" from an eastern approach only works if it's done in a cheesy, over-the-top manner, like Metal Wolf Chaos.
Bad example considering McDonald’s in Japan is a whole other ballgame apparently.
But I get what your saying.
I think a better example is going to a Japanese restaurant and then being given a hot dog that maybe has some Japanese spices here and there….
that analogy would've worked with any fast food restaurant chain BUT mcdonalds 😂
@@Wolfedge75that's why they said "regular Mac Donalds meal".
@@CurtyTailsthat's why they said "regular Mac Donalds meal".
It's so sad westernization has spread so much in Japanese gaming...
I agree but unfortunately the Japanese gaming market outside of Mobile is very small. So devs have to appeal to Americans.
and anime
recently they censored re zero new season and they literally said "we did it to pander to the western audience" and now the Japanese audience has to swallow that censorship
@@perfectlyslicedegg3348 They don't. When that happens, that's when these games fail.
Ditching your target audience on an established franchise has never done any good to any of the franchises.
@@tempoaccla4041 Are you SERIOUS? Please tell me about that.
@@Vulpas They changed the designs of the two goddesses to cover them up a bit more.
It is nice to hear that there are still parts of SquareEnix that want to do things the Japanese way. The worst thing to happen to Japanese games was globalizing and Westernizing them. I fell in love with Japanese gaming precisely because it was so different from what Western gaming offered. Japanese gaming had always had such a unique identity, and it gave me a home to escape into when most of Western gaming has always been obsessed with copying trends and churning out the same crap year after year. When major players in the space, like SquareEnix, Capcom, and a host of others started Westernizing their games to make even more money, they were actively destroying the very elements that had made myself and so many of us consumers into lifelong customers and fans. I have watched so many franchises become something I hate to play in order to get a few more Western dollars. As the years go by, I have to look harder and harder to find the games that tell me the stories and provide the experiences that I have grown up loving. It’s sad that the unique gaming space that was once a doorway into so many amazing experiences is getting slowly homogenized and erased for profit. As gaming gets more and more homogenized, there will be less and less to play for people like me that treasure the unique experiences offered by games that aren’t following Western trends. As it stands now, I feel like gaming is losing a lot by all these devs and publishers looking to follow the path of Western gaming instead of blazing their own trails.
It’s never the company but the people behind it or hired
The problem is that Square Enix is already heavily westernized and burned everything to the ground along the way already. The Mana games are basically one of the last pieces of IP they haven't completely wrecked yet.
Capcom still has a franchise that doesn't westernize like sengoku Basara and battle network.... although the series has its own America country in the game..
Dei infesting everything it can it's terrible
This is why downtown in many places in the US they all look the same for restaurants and possibly even layout. This is what they want gaming to look like, except Western styled and globalized into a big homogenous blob of CRAP.
Keeping the visual style is good, but the writing is also important. Will need to see how faithful the translation is.
Facts. Since they din't talk about that we should asume they are allowing the localization team to bastardise the script untill proven otherwise.
i remember back when fire emblem if was localized into fire emblem fates, developer interviews showed that the japanese director or whoever just didn't really give a damn what the western team did to the names, dialogues, scripts, etc, because above all else they just wanted it to sell, and if the western localization team thought that meant meme-ifying the script and dumbing down character names (or altering them outright), changing character personalities and marketing the game for a young teen audience instead of a young adult one, then that's what they fucking did. and unfortunately everyone mostly loved it and as always people that want a faithful experience are seen as a loud angry few, and we're often lumped in with the same assholes that use bad localization and censorship as an excuse to be toxic and shitty on the internet.
I don't know that I've ever seen the "style" of a game get hit. It's almost always specific parts of character designs. Changing the "atmosphere" of a series would be significant, throwing some black cloth across the characters is unapologetic censorship but it's the most common kind.
They can't control the localizers. No one can. Localizers have more power than all world leaders combined. The are the ultimate power in this universe, clearly. If the game is selected for culturalization, it will be done. Localizers are literal gods or demigods, obviously.
How else could they gloat about being terrible at their jobs and acting out of spite for their customers with no repercussions if not that? I hypothesize that they must have been gods at some point, but were somehow trapped in mortal bodies. Now their goal is to create a new kingdom on this earthly domain, that they might one day discover a way to sever their ties to this mortal coil and return to the heavens.
I pray we dont get another uwu Charlotte situation again. That was so cursed and unnecessary tacked on that for the official version of the game I never bothered including her in my party setups because it was that unnerving and forced.
The interviewer is strangely trying to form a Narrative that mana developer was not even alluding to. Keeping a series identity and design aesthetic is different from being open minded about global appeal.
Nah
I noticed that too
Yeah, doesn’t sound like they’re avoiding ‘westernization’, it sounds more like they’re just keeping to the core aspects of the appeal of the series
Briliant response from the developer. I think I can finally allow myself having some amount of hype for this game.
because they want to actually make money with their game
Can't believe people settle for no local multiplayer these days. Trinity trigger was goofy but at least has it. No point with this and trials. Let alone I doubt anyone will be less covered up than Angela from trials of mana who was censored, let alone did stupid eek jumping in English, which was as bad as Elmer Fudd Charlotte. Acting will be a big barrier unless you go to Japanese by default. Original trials from collection of mana is better with multiplayer and no bad voice acting.
Don't celebrate just yet. Keep your hopes down and heads up for any update regarding the game. Never board the hype train. Go to the next station to see whether it'll arrive.
this
Some people did learn from Inafune's era on Capcom, some people don't
I don't get how companies can go "people loved our games for what they were and how they played, now let's change everything they liked about them and sell them a butchered product masquerading under those old titles." We want to experience the Japanese gaming vision, not another 4kids Pokemon/One Piece massacre.
If you try to go for a global audience, the best case scenario is a Jack of all trades master of none kind of game, and worst case is that no one is interested in it.
I'll believe it when I see it. I honestly have little to no trust in Square Enix these days.
Wow, this is refreshing news. I pray to god that more companies and developers will reject westernization. I will be paying attention to this game now.
"it is best to deliver the game based on the developers' creative vision" This words give me hope
they probably saw the massive backlash to localizers.
For actually good reason.
I hope so
More should be made aware.
Nah. Twitter isn't real life. Nobody in Japan / the real world actually cares about that kind of stuff
@@Danny-mp8dq Yet they point out real life examples of people doing and saying things hmm curious.
Masaru Oyamada is that kind of producer that stays true to the core vision of the developers because he knows that is why this series is so beloved. "Even the West rejects the westernization of its games". ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
I'd like to see some Western games get Easternized for a change.
While it was more 50/50, Lollipop was a nice mix of east and west
That could lead to more Ghost of Tsushima and there is nothing wrong with that.
That would be interesting to see
Jade Empire
@@EatWave Ghost of Tsushima is a western game true and true, it' just set in Japan.
Wow what a crazy concept! When I play a Japanese game I want it to feel like a Japanese game! I’m not going to Korea for a fucking Big Mac!
You'd be surprised how many Americans actually do this though.
Like 99% of US tourists are looking for McDonald's in my country
@@VagrantValmar Well, at least they made it clear that they know what they want. Good for them.
A franchise set in a European world 99% of the time
"Japanese"
I hope more developers in Japan take this sort of stance.
Considering that Square Enix still talks to SBI, somehow I doubt that they're being completely honest.
Japanese companies are much more resistant to SBI's (and companies like them) extortion. The same kind of outrage and cancel culture just doesn't really exist so much over there, and Japanese companies are more removed from the usual Western games media that usually gets called out to attack a developer who refuses to bend the knee.
What game have Square worked with them on?
@@sigvif Unconfirmed, but Square Enix is listed as a client on the SBI website. If I had to guess, the failure that was Forspoken has SBI stink all over it.
Thanks again for pointing out the hypocrisy
Love how the interviewer is still trying to put words in his mouth. Globalization and westernization might as well be synonyms.
That's what I get from that too. It doesn't seem to me that the developer has said anything close to "we don't want to westernize our game", he's just creating a game according to his vision, I don't think he even cares about whether that vision can be considered "westernized" or not.
Probably the best marketing they could have done
It already has an appeal to western gamers... by not looking or feeling anything like a western game.
This is certainly going to be a step in the right direction if it is a step in the right direction we'll have to see how it pans out
Thank you
It'll be interesting to see how the final product turns out. I hope it stays true to the developers' creative vision.
Another great video as always man!
Makes sense.
I've heard promises like this before. I'm not holding my breath.
This is pretty damn good news. That mean I don't have to feel conflicted or cringy vibe anymore when comparing JP dub with translation subtitle.
But if the game also has english dub, its recommended for them to also have their own western style subtitle so global audience can choose their own preference.
ps: Its possible to achieve since having multiple subtitle in game is normal these day. Except game usually never include 2 type eng sub translation to match up with either JP/ENG dub
Thank you! My jaw dropped when I saw the Trials of Mana remake shown off at E3 2019, and the second it was out the following year i bought it, i've played it through several times. I love the visual style, the basic yet satisfying combat, the awesome bosses, the cute characters. Producer is right. The main people into the series these days are the ones who grew up with it and want to recapture a little bit of childhood.
It's because of Mana that i prefer cartoony and colourful artstyles over the latest grey brown shooter.
When we talk about "westernization" it's not really about the art style but about a lot of other issues western media and activists have. We will see about that "not westernization". In any case I'm just SO GLAD to finally get another proper Mana RPG.
They pure Mana series, they already killed Final Fantasy and will kill Dragon Quest.
Yeah this is why I'm not looking forward to dragon quest 12. 11 is peak
With Toriyama's gone, I'd say Dragon Quest is even more finished than before 😢
@@AL-np1im hey, hey, let's not jump the gun, we haven't seen a lick of the game yet. This "changed combat" and "darker storyline" might just as well be misguided promotional BS. I doubt they'll dare to make a butcher DQ for the sake of an experiment - they have FF for that.
Nice.
We as gamers don't want JRPGs to be westernize, we already have RPGs outside Japan. Let the JRPGs alone, we love them the way they are
Aight. This is definitely a day 1 purchase for me
Good on this guy! Now I'm even MORE inclined to pick up this game! Glad to see someone recognizing that if you try to please everyone, you'll end up pleasing no one.
Can you cover shadows of the damned hella remastered and SMTV vengeance when they come out? curious to see how much will be censored there
Great! There are good japenese games that mainly appeal to the west, but some things should stay in their place. Not everything needs to be transformed just for the sake of it.
Keep it real
This is excellent news.
Props to that director. Others who want to become more westernized should do the same.
Simple but very effective
it would be so fucking funny if mana outsold dragons quest 12 since they said they are gonna westernize DQ12 and make it "mature"
What's wrong with the accents?
@@sonic23233 what are you talking about?
@@tempoaccla4041 Dragon quest
@@sonic23233 what accents?
@@sonic23233 Square Enix has generally used the British accent to depict "minorities" in a lot of their games. It was a mandate handed down during the development of FF12 and continued through FF13. That's kind of why you see so many people with British accents from FF12 through FF14.
I’m not even interested in the Mana series but this info has me interested. I might need to check them out.
they said that but the trailer, even the JP version of trailer use English dubs. its totally westernized
What are you babbling about
That's hardly evidence. Resident Evil and Devil May Cry used only English dubs until pretty late in the games' lives, and I don't think anyone would say those games started off very Western.
@@Boyzby those games are very western though.
What is blud even waffling about right now
Can people in this fantasy European inspired world not speak English
Compared to trials of mana I feel like the game has been toned down. You're not going to see a character like Angela again.
This is great news! I hope it stays this way and I hope to enjoy the proper story and elements the artists intend.
This is such a relief. I was looking forward for this game. So tired of the modern western politics that invaded video games.
Thank God.
Honestly screw what the west wants. All Devs should be free to make the game they want without anyone saying anything because Video Games are Art! You don't tell the artist HOW TO DO THEIR JOB!
This gives me hope for Dragon Quest. I’m pretty sure even the president of SE knows that if they ever globalize, or worse westernize, a mainline DQ game, Japan will never let them live it down.
I have never played the Mana series (I was born in 1993 so perhaps missed the launch a bit) but still, hope it goes well for them.
I don't trust Square Enix one bit, but I'm hoping this is the beginning of a turning point.
I'm so glad Mana is still fun and colorful, and goofy, and god--good lord am I worried about the next Dragon Quest game...
Nice. I love Seiken Densetsu 3 and its remake. I have high hopes for Visions of Mana.
Finally a word from real creators! Just make stuff you love, people will resonate to that.
Nice. I hope more developers are like this. People love a particular IP for what it is. Hopefully the localization team don't mess this up
Anyone remember Secret of Evermore? I miss that one.
These companies keep acting surprised their games keep failing spectacularly. I hope these guys what they stated. I'd wager it isn't his call, though.
I played JRPGs because they weren't western. I never liked 95% of western RPGs because they played like action games. JRPGs used to be built different. I'd start buying them again if they went back to that.
I play JAPANESE GAMES to experience a JAPANESE GAME...
Thats like going Japan and complaining that the Mc Donald's burgers dont taste like the ones in America..
I just hate what capcom did with their latest rpg. Why even sell the teleportation packs?
TLDR;
If you don't alienate anybody, you probably don't have much of an identity on the first place. Be yourself so that people have the opportunity to like your qualities, instead of diminishing your qualities in order to appear at most, vaguely not offensive.
This puts this game way higher on my list.
Sweet baby inc. Collector edition!
WOOOOOOOOOO YEAH BABY!!!!!!!!
Wow, Squeenix finally getting the message?
And that's a good thing!
Gotta love Japanese games
I started playing games in the late 80s, and it was in the SNES days, between 92 and 97, that I fell in love with Japanese games, as well as Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Taiwanese and Thai cinema. I don't want these games and movies to look and feel like the games and movies the US make, and which I mostly despise. I want them to look and feel and sound like their Asian creators intended. That's why while I love Final Fantasy 1 to 7, I hate every following Final Fantasy: they tried to appeal to American audiences. I am not even American, thank god.
more like the game looks incredible and there's not a need to add new elements to an already-established formula from what appears to be Trials of Mana.
awesome job, Oyamada-san.
thank god
So happy to have stumbled on this. I was very worried this game was going to get westernized but now I'm even more ready to throw money at it, if only to support the Japanese devs that won't jeopardize the identity of their games. Let's hope this game does very well, because it could also send a message to Squeenix itself that actual Western *Gamers* still love Japanese-oriented games. Many of us don't want nor desire them to be "Westernized". Literally defeats the point of playing a game that isn't from the West.
Go woke is go broke. I think that would apply to single player game.
Saying you're homophobic and transphobic without saying you're homophobic and transphobic.
@@robynwolph3836 We're normal. Stay angry.
@@robynwolph3836 y'all won't really ever become women
Tbh forced wokeness always makes companies go broke, I don't know any company who's products didn't lose money through wokeness.
It can be done well if not forced and I'm certain there are examples in the past of ppl doing it well; sadly they can't do it well today.
That and you get ppl like robynwolph below who instead of talking about it like an adult, decide to deflect the argument with the "it's not meant for you" or "you're just being x or x" as an insult rather than being an adult and discussing it.
Tbh for every game I enjoy, I'd rather play the original over the altered version for the west. Because that's the true vision of its creator. I've had enough 4kids censorships that I'm tired of it, I just find it weird when some censorships wanted to remove the japan from japanese games. If they didn't like it, why take it up in the first place. Even as a kid I didn't believe shows like pokemon or digimon were american; no matter how many rice balls you call a jelly donut.
@@robynwolph3836 Your ilk poisoned enough games. Get lost and leave the hobby alone.
Hope it doesn't get censored like the last Mana game that was remastered
Based!
Thank you, Mana devs! While I understand why companies try to localize, I think many gamers just want what the devs are wanting to make instead of what companies think certain country's interests are. As long as the translation is faith and outside companies aren't changing what the game is over sensibilities of the non-target audience, the audience is always there (even if Nintendo doesn't release something like Mother 3 outside of Japan)
This sounds more about not doing what FF16 did and trying to make their series Gritty and Dramatic like that particular title was in the series. I don't think this is about strict localization.
To THAT. I agree, I love the magical adventure of the Mana series. Legend of Mana was a story book,dreamlike adventure and i'll always love it. I want that style to live on.
You know what made JRPG’s memorable and unique? The J!!! It’s different and unique. They’re not WRPG (western rpg)
A developer that gets it. The reason why we westerners like Japanese media is because it's unlike the media in the West.
i play the Mana series for the Mana series. keep that and we're good.
You know when a reporter only asks leading questions in their interview, which the interviewee tries to avoid as best as they can only to then be "quoted" as specifically doing the [by the reporter] suggested thing, which then gets re-quoted and referenced to by other news outlets? That's when something inside of my dies.
It's too early to claim "victory" but it's a very positive sign.
Probably one of the most beautiful games I've seen in a while, will definitely pick this one up.
Good
Fingers crossed.
It's great that they kept to their vision. I think the Mana franchise is quite niche with the large gaps between mainline games, so "westernizing" the game might do more harm than good. I think a lot of fans of the franchise want more Mana games releases. Not release a Mana game that gets critically panned and the franchise is shelved for ages again.
Can anyone explain what "westernizations of Japanese games" means? Like I understand that it means to try and appeal to western players/global market appeal but what does that actually MEAN when put under a microscope compared to a unwesternized Japanese game?
Makes me wonder too. People’s thoughts and ideas of ‘censorship’ has changed in many ways, just like this UA-cam channel.
The first and foremost is the characters. Japanese characters tend to be very exaggerated. Take a look at any Japanese live action drama and how they highlight the stark contrast in a character. An example of this is the J-Drama "Hotaru no Hikari", an older single woman who is professional at work, but prefers to laze around at home to the point where she sleeps in 30 year old newspapers and beer cans she finished before going to bed. Think of the later "The Fast and the Furious" movies where "family" becomes a meme and Vin Diesel is chucking Dwayne Johnson through walls and consider that as your "normal" in Japan. Meanwhile, there's a Japanese drama where a dying man marries a twenty year old woman homeless woman to help take care of his six problematic kids in a Scooby Doo style mansion when he passes (Atashinchi no Danshi). We're seeing the design of these characters and concepts being toned down for western audiences.
Two, Japanese RPGs are more tightly constructed narrative/scenarios. You are guided to go from point A to point B for the most part. Side quests and optional content tends to be sparse until later parts of the game. There are no multiple endings based on completion, but one ending.
We're also seeing more Japanese games designed with the English language in mind. This is generally a plus when it comes to translation/localization in the west (less work and proper lip syncing), but Japan is not liking this because they're the ones essentially watching bad Hong Kong dubs now.
And as of the release of Trails Through Daybreak (2021), we're starting to see a push that turn based is a defining element of JRPGs. Japan's rejection of FF7R2 also seems to have reignited this sentiment as well.
@@ohnosmoarlulcatz that was very concisely put and explained! Thank you! I kinda knew there was a difference but it felt more like an "I know it when I see it" feel. On top of that I don't play as many games as I used to, often opting for older games I used to like so my modern pool of "What is westernization???" Is rather low as most my Japanese game pool is Pre-westernization jrpgs.
I'm pretty sure I've mentioned this at other times on your videos, but we have to remember that the Japanese audience is far, far smaller than the entire "west." It goes without saying that our cultures (what people have come to want and accept in their consumable media) are different, and both developers and localizers are aware of this when bringing games from one side to the other. In America, for example, we simply cannot shake off our puritanical tendencies and allow the risqué portrayal of main female characters to go unchecked, even in an age when religion (which influenced those tendencies) has declined dramatically. Censorious people now have "secular" arguments in their arsenal for handling these situations, and aren't afraid to use shame, much like the holier-than-thou self-righteous people of old.
Stuff like references, cultural inside jokes, are obvious targets for localization, because games don't come with a Translation Notes page like manga. All this to say that since the western audience is considerably bigger and more diverse than one homogeneous country, obviously the diverse region will have far more sensitivities and differences to consider, and when you're trying to sell things, you must keep these things in mind.
I like my japanese game to be japanese.
The reason i really like Japanese media is because it's different from my own and provides variety in my entertainment.
If everything is the same life gets very boring
while i like the developers response, it doesn't mean the release is safe by any means. it will have to be looked through when it does appear.
I never would've expected to hear that from current Square. That leaves me hopeful. I'll need to remember to keep an eye on Visions of Mana. For me, 'Global Audience' might as well be a slur, I buy Japanese games because I like the Japanese feel to them.
I put 224 hours of play time into the Trials of Mana remake despite never having played a game in the series before. I'm more than willing to try this out.
Wish it had a switch version. Would throw money at it 💸
This sounds like good news to me.
2:01 I see what you did there, good one.
Good news!
Japanese games have to be Japanese, they must feel Japanese, not European or American. This happens every now and then in Japan, they always fall flat on their faces with the western approach in Japanese games but for some reason they soon forget that it failed the previous times and try it again. My favorite case of the realization about this is from Yosuke Hayashi when he talked about why Ninja Gaiden 3 and the spin-off Yaiba failed. He said something along the lines of: "We were trying to make a hamburger when we should have made sushi instead."
Yeah, imagine that. The reason people play the games is because they are different from what we get. The best thing you can give a foreign nation is acceptance and a bunch of us love their games for being 100% for them. I don't have to be from there to appreciate their stuff and it does not have to be catered to me too for me to enjoy it, since when we play it we can learn that stuff and it's always fun in my opinion. But it is weird how all the footage has been just the English dub. It does mean we can catch any weird localization stuff early.