No fan of saracens but the ref had it in for them today . Clearly forward was never a yellow for goode and the red looked like the sale player led with the elbow . Very strange !
And to make it worse the TMO said that there was nothing clear or obvious as to why the try should not be given. What’s the point of a TMO when they can’t see that? Shocking officiating.
@@paulsmith3966 that’s not what makes a forward pass. The lines are irrelevant. It’s much less forward than people are making out. Still forward though but I can understand why it was given taking into how the game treats forward passes.
I generally feel people complain too much about individual calls in Rugby these days, but a couple of calls in this match are almost impossible to ignore. That pass was a damn through-pass, forward out of the hand to a guy who catches it 5 metres ahead of him. And its the assist pass for a try so it can't be "missed" in the run of play - it was examined and declared ok despite it being *impossible* to do so. The most die hard Sale fan would call it forward. It is not possible for a human to do otherwise. Only a crookedness or PCP can explain that, both of which *require* the TMO getting the sack. Btw was Claire Hodnett, AGAIN refusing to do her job, in case you were wondering who it was in the TMO booth. Followed by yet another example of a defending player getting a straight permanent red for being the passive participant in an accidental and incidental contact which hurt neither guy. Give him a yellow if you must, since I suppose defenders should know better than to lazily look away and leave your head there to be hit these days - but a permanent red card for being the victim of a flying headbutt is beyond irrational and we are seeing it every week now.
I have some sympathy with your first point, but on the second - if a tackler is stupid enough not to pivot at the hips after years of attempts to reduce head contact, he deserves a red card. It's not ideal, but it's been the law for long enough for professionals to do better. Apart from anything else, it's woeful tackle technique.
There's something about Sale this season. The ground is full, crowd is fully behind the team, the homegrown players are showing their quality. Only thing dodgy is the state of the pitch.
They missed the forward pass, true. Cards were justified though, relating to how rugby is refereed now. Don't think Sarries can feel too aggrieved. They were bested in the 2nd half.
Looked like a good game of rugby. That pass was definitely forward and on that metric I was almost positive they’d give them the try that was clearly in touch as well hahaha
Relieved the win was not down to the try scored by James, I think WRU has got its collective head up its arse when it comes to how they referee a forward pass, I feel when I watch League that is called forward everytime and in the game without either a tmo, endless replays or assistants running the line that is called forward. Decent gap to third but next three games are all away against teams hunting that third/fourth spot, might be close at the - come on Sale!
Sale won, with enormous assistance from the ref and TMO (who was probably watching Arsenal v Chelsea women on BBC1). Saracens can rightly feel very aggrieved with that.
@@somanytakennames When it massively changes the result of the game, yes, it is. Sarries were 16-3 up at one point. I can think of at least 3 games this season where officials have altered the end outcome of the game, this being one of them.
Because like RDP and Carpenter he is having a stellar season, he has matched every other scrum half in the premiership and outplayed JVP and Mitchell, simple really
It comes back to the ref's on-field decision doesn't it? If the null hypothesis was that the pass was forward then it would be hard to overturn. But since his on-field decision was that the pass was fine, it's the burden of the TMO to establish that the forward motion of the pass was not down to relative velocity.
That yellow card for Goode was not deserved. And the rede for high tackle was yellow at most. Definitely not red. Sarries player was leaning away from him as he knew he was high.
Yes. The tackler was upright or even, as you suggest, leaning backwards a bit. Whereas the ball carrier was leading with his head... Officials must start to penalise whichever player is causing the potential danger. It's absurd to assume that's always the tackler.
@@paulsmith3966 the problem was caused by the tackler being upright. You can hear the ref say it to the TMO. The ball carrier isn't responsible for going low into a challenge. The tackler is
@@watermelonkang What about cases (which we're seeing quite often) when the tackler doesn't have time or space in which to dip down, not without making head on head contact more likely to occur and more likely to be serious? ...I really do feel there're some collisions caused by the ball carrier's leading with his head.
Long term Quins fan here, even I will admit Saracens were absolutely robbed, first and hopefully last time I will ever say that. Foley is normally decent but blimey what a shocker, TMO was even worse. Makes me wonder if she was even watching the game
@@pushthetempo2 Thank you!! I’ve been looking for the name of that song for literally 3 years but haven’t even heard it anywhere to shazam it until watching the rugby a few weeks back hahah
I agree that the pass was forward, but watching the lines is not the way to do it. Everything depends on what direction the hands are pointing when the ball is thrown and *zero* emphasis is given to the position on the field where it was caught relative to where it was thrown. Go watch the video explaining forward passes that has been on the official WR channel for 11 years now...
performance in second half let us down but at the same time terrible officiating. Goode's is never a yellow and the red is harsh as there isn't extreme force. that pass is so forward how have they not checked that.
@@kitrigg1008 in any other game, it would not be as signficant. Because it is a top 2 clash, officials simply have to get the big decisions right, which they failed to do (on at least 4 occasions)
Great to see the boot on the other foot against saracens. The amount of poor refereeing decisions going their way this season, getting some balance back from the forward pass is probably just karma
It seems the special treatment Exeter gets from refs still carries with their players after they’ve left 💀 most blatant forward pass. ‘Nothing compelling’…shut up love
Just deeping aswell as the blatant forward pass, they also shouldn’t have had the try where Goode kicked and it came off the sale hand because it so clearly went into touch. Fucking joke
Sale play so much better when Ford doesn’t play, they look more free and they actually get the ball out, there’s no chance Ford should come back into this back line, Du Preez is a much better 10
@@rorylynn6305 the fact that Sale haven’t won a game with Ford and looked terrible when he played and then the first game he’s not there they win and look a lot better isn’t a coincidence, some players just don’t fit teams systems and Ford certainly doesn’t fit at sale, if Sale had any sense they’d let him go in the summer
@@Danimal13 he’s played less than 5 games, after almost a year out of the sport, Rob has been at the club for four times as long, not to mention how many games he’s played at 10
@@thomaswoodruff5244 Rob du preez has had an up and down tenure at Sale but this season he’s on fire and should not be replaced at 10 especially by Ford, it throws off everything we’ve been good at this season 1. because Ford is shit and 2. Because all Ford wants to do is kick where as Rob can actually play and not get scared when there’s a little bit of pressure and we can’t afford to put Ford in and lose us the game because he’s too predictable, weak and easily flustered, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it
The amount of Salty Saracens fans, 😂 I was in the stadium, and highlights failed to show how much time wasting Saracen’s did, they ended up getting a penalty against them on the 5 metre line for goodness sake, solely for huddles, which they constantly used as an illegitimate way off running down the clock, I’m saying 30 seconds per, they were boring and only trying to hold onto there lead past the first 20 minutes. Sale opened up their play in the second half and countered with line speed and dominated Saracens with dummy runs, Sale were the better team, decisions went both ways and it’s hard not to smile 😃
Yes the pass was forward, but Saracens got away with with over spending on the salary cap for a number of years, so they got away with a lot for a number of years.
Still makes me laugh how people still ain’t done their research on what the ‘overspending’ actually was. Nigel Wray, a man who genuinely cares about rugby, unlike corrupt twats like tony rowe, helping players set up careers after they retire because he knows how shit it can be for them. They’d have been at sarries anyway so makes no fuckin difference to the outcomes of the season. U dickheads just believe what u want cos hatred defines you
As a neutral, that was such a painfully obvious forward pass… unbelievable 😅
As a Sale fan I 100% agree, but I also absolutely love it!
As another Sale fan - yup, that was beyond benefit of the doubt.
Criminal. Match officials should be severely punished for not ruling that a blatant forward pass.
@@peterdixon6807 I'd say not criminal, a mistake that you can forgive someone for making.
I don't understand that law anymore. Even O'Flaherty's body language suggested in the second after he released it that he thought it was forward.
I'm all for benefit of the doubt when the pass is a flat, but there's 2-3 metres difference from start to finish on that O'Flaherty pass.
You're right. It's given behind the line and caught in front of the line. That ought to make it easy for officials to call it correctly.
No fan of saracens but the ref had it in for them today . Clearly forward was never a yellow for goode and the red looked like the sale player led with the elbow . Very strange !
And to make it worse the TMO said that there was nothing clear or obvious as to why the try should not be given. What’s the point of a TMO when they can’t see that? Shocking officiating.
@@paulsmith3966 that’s not what makes a forward pass. The lines are irrelevant. It’s much less forward than people are making out. Still forward though but I can understand why it was given taking into how the game treats forward passes.
Claire Hodnett strikes again. Or rather, doesn't strike, since she is too busy being " a stunning and brave trailblazer" to do her damn job.
An NFL Quarterback would be proud of how far forward that O'Flaherty pass was. Ludicrous decision to allow that.
Yes, how far is too far? One yard, two, must have been at least three!
I generally feel people complain too much about individual calls in Rugby these days, but a couple of calls in this match are almost impossible to ignore.
That pass was a damn through-pass, forward out of the hand to a guy who catches it 5 metres ahead of him. And its the assist pass for a try so it can't be "missed" in the run of play - it was examined and declared ok despite it being *impossible* to do so. The most die hard Sale fan would call it forward. It is not possible for a human to do otherwise. Only a crookedness or PCP can explain that, both of which *require* the TMO getting the sack. Btw was Claire Hodnett, AGAIN refusing to do her job, in case you were wondering who it was in the TMO booth.
Followed by yet another example of a defending player getting a straight permanent red for being the passive participant in an accidental and incidental contact which hurt neither guy. Give him a yellow if you must, since I suppose defenders should know better than to lazily look away and leave your head there to be hit these days - but a permanent red card for being the victim of a flying headbutt is beyond irrational and we are seeing it every week now.
I have some sympathy with your first point, but on the second - if a tackler is stupid enough not to pivot at the hips after years of attempts to reduce head contact, he deserves a red card. It's not ideal, but it's been the law for long enough for professionals to do better. Apart from anything else, it's woeful tackle technique.
Solid refereeing. Salty Sarries supporter.
Time stamp of the forward pass?
Incredible to see Sale players performing so well, Dugdale was very very good as he always is!
There's something about Sale this season. The ground is full, crowd is fully behind the team, the homegrown players are showing their quality.
Only thing dodgy is the state of the pitch.
and the referee decisions 🤣
They missed the forward pass, true. Cards were justified though, relating to how rugby is refereed now.
Don't think Sarries can feel too aggrieved. They were bested in the 2nd half.
@@rugbyfan9225 Bollocks mate. Both the cards were wank decisions. GOode did nothing wrong, and other should have been a yellow no shoulkder contact
@@volteks1817 bollocks
@@watermelonkang are you all right mate
Check out the grass lines...it was 5m forward.
The TMO should get a significant penalty for that blunder. It's as blatant as eye gouging by a player.
Fair play to Sale but as so many have observed that pass was about a mile forward 😮! Good job the result doesn’t matter.
Looked like a good game of rugby. That pass was definitely forward and on that metric I was almost positive they’d give them the try that was clearly in touch as well hahaha
Well done Sale - an important scalp
Relieved the win was not down to the try scored by James, I think WRU has got its collective head up its arse when it comes to how they referee a forward pass, I feel when I watch League that is called forward everytime and in the game without either a tmo, endless replays or assistants running the line that is called forward. Decent gap to third but next three games are all away against teams hunting that third/fourth spot, might be close at the - come on Sale!
Sale won, with enormous assistance from the ref and TMO (who was probably watching Arsenal v Chelsea women on BBC1). Saracens can rightly feel very aggrieved with that.
Sale got a couple of decisions, everything else went saracens way.. everything!
@@bd2691 you must have been watching a different game. Neutrals were commenting how horrendous the officials were. Ruined the game for all the fans
@@JamesHall-xb7dw don’t think it ruined the game for anyone but saracens fans
It’s always the officials fault isn’t it
@@somanytakennames When it massively changes the result of the game, yes, it is. Sarries were 16-3 up at one point. I can think of at least 3 games this season where officials have altered the end outcome of the game, this being one of them.
รอบนี้ทีมฉลามชนะ ✌️🦈🏉♥️
Can Nienaber please just give Du Preez some games in the 10 shirt this year! He thoroughly deserves it!
What a game
As an avid Sale fan l enjoyed that. But how was that not a forward pass?
Why does Quirke not get the starting 9 shirt?
Because like RDP and Carpenter he is having a stellar season, he has matched every other scrum half in the premiership and outplayed JVP and Mitchell, simple really
It comes back to the ref's on-field decision doesn't it? If the null hypothesis was that the pass was forward then it would be hard to overturn. But since his on-field decision was that the pass was fine, it's the burden of the TMO to establish that the forward motion of the pass was not down to relative velocity.
That yellow card for Goode was not deserved. And the rede for high tackle was yellow at most. Definitely not red. Sarries player was leaning away from him as he knew he was high.
Yes. The tackler was upright or even, as you suggest, leaning backwards a bit. Whereas the ball carrier was leading with his head... Officials must start to penalise whichever player is causing the potential danger. It's absurd to assume that's always the tackler.
Agree the ball carrier actually led with his elbow and he should of seen red . Very strange decisions
@@paulsmith3966 the problem was caused by the tackler being upright. You can hear the ref say it to the TMO. The ball carrier isn't responsible for going low into a challenge. The tackler is
@@watermelonkang What about cases (which we're seeing quite often) when the tackler doesn't have time or space in which to dip down, not without making head on head contact more likely to occur and more likely to be serious? ...I really do feel there're some collisions caused by the ball carrier's leading with his head.
The ref had everything spot on except the forward pass
Long term Quins fan here, even I will admit Saracens were absolutely robbed, first and hopefully last time I will ever say that. Foley is normally decent but blimey what a shocker, TMO was even worse. Makes me wonder if she was even watching the game
Carpenter is so unlucky that Steward is currently so good for England
I just wish that Steward had carpenters running game
What’s with both teams and the opposite colored socks?
Controversies aside, this looked like a great game
Not forward, WOW
What did Alex Goode do wrong?
Purposely blocked the Sale player while pretending not to.
Anyone know the song at 1:58?
The chemical brothers - don’t hold back
@@pushthetempo2 Thank you!! I’ve been looking for the name of that song for literally 3 years but haven’t even heard it anywhere to shazam it until watching the rugby a few weeks back hahah
@@daveyy64 hahah you owe me a pint then 😄🍺
How is that not a forward pass? 2:07
Passes the ball 5 m BEFORE 22, catches it on the 22.
I don’t really understand the Goode yellow….the ball goes out of play so O’F is not getting to it anyway. So he doesn’t block the player 🤷🏻♂️
That's not how the laws work. He intentionally blocked Tom from even having a chance to get to the ball, it's cynical and a yellow
Correct.
Rugby referees are woefully incompetent. Wish we could have 100 Nigel Owens to ref and tmo every game
who actually checks these forward passes? The mowed lines are 5m apart. the pass went from one to the next. Unbelieveable.
Claire Hodnett does, or rather doesn't. God knows what she does up there, because it sure isn't her job.
I agree that the pass was forward, but watching the lines is not the way to do it. Everything depends on what direction the hands are pointing when the ball is thrown and *zero* emphasis is given to the position on the field where it was caught relative to where it was thrown. Go watch the video explaining forward passes that has been on the official WR channel for 11 years now...
Who's here watching the wrong highlights package after the final?
Yaaaaaas Sale! Always a good day when Sarries get beaten. 👍🙏👌
Knowing sarries, they'll go on a revenge tour and crush sale in the final 😉
@@JamesHall-xb7dwlol
Never a red
performance in second half let us down but at the same time terrible officiating. Goode's is never a yellow and the red is harsh as there isn't extreme force. that pass is so forward how have they not checked that.
The ridiculous refereeing /officiating decisions in this game is what is killing rugby.
And influencing results !.
sale just look far better in that game - if it comes to a salaries v sale final you bet im backing sharks to win
That was pretty close to a sale first team and that was very far from a sarries first team
Who are salaries. And as long as sale get the same ref and TMO, they are bound to win
@@JamesHall-xb7dw have you finishing complaining in this comment sections yet? We get it you're upset but it's just a game... move on with your life.
@@kitrigg1008 in any other game, it would not be as signficant. Because it is a top 2 clash, officials simply have to get the big decisions right, which they failed to do (on at least 4 occasions)
Great to see the boot on the other foot against saracens. The amount of poor refereeing decisions going their way this season, getting some balance back from the forward pass is probably just karma
It seems the special treatment Exeter gets from refs still carries with their players after they’ve left 💀 most blatant forward pass. ‘Nothing compelling’…shut up love
Just deeping aswell as the blatant forward pass, they also shouldn’t have had the try where Goode kicked and it came off the sale hand because it so clearly went into touch. Fucking joke
What’s the point of TMO when they miss stuff and once again the commentators keep talking over the ref ffs shut up
Sale play so much better when Ford doesn’t play, they look more free and they actually get the ball out, there’s no chance Ford should come back into this back line, Du Preez is a much better 10
Ridiculous
If Du Preez played 10 against Exeter, Sale would've won that game easily!
@@rorylynn6305 the fact that Sale haven’t won a game with Ford and looked terrible when he played and then the first game he’s not there they win and look a lot better isn’t a coincidence, some players just don’t fit teams systems and Ford certainly doesn’t fit at sale, if Sale had any sense they’d let him go in the summer
@@Danimal13 he’s played less than 5 games, after almost a year out of the sport, Rob has been at the club for four times as long, not to mention how many games he’s played at 10
@@thomaswoodruff5244 Rob du preez has had an up and down tenure at Sale but this season he’s on fire and should not be replaced at 10 especially by Ford, it throws off everything we’ve been good at this season 1. because Ford is shit and 2. Because all Ford wants to do is kick where as Rob can actually play and not get scared when there’s a little bit of pressure and we can’t afford to put Ford in and lose us the game because he’s too predictable, weak and easily flustered, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it
The amount of Salty Saracens fans, 😂 I was in the stadium, and highlights failed to show how much time wasting Saracen’s did, they ended up getting a penalty against them on the 5 metre line for goodness sake, solely for huddles, which they constantly used as an illegitimate way off running down the clock, I’m saying 30 seconds per, they were boring and only trying to hold onto there lead past the first 20 minutes. Sale opened up their play in the second half and countered with line speed and dominated Saracens with dummy runs, Sale were the better team, decisions went both ways and it’s hard not to smile 😃
Yes the pass was forward, but Saracens got away with with over spending on the salary cap for a number of years, so they got away with a lot for a number of years.
And they got rightly punished for it. Let it go and move on and accept when something goes against them
Still makes me laugh how people still ain’t done their research on what the ‘overspending’ actually was. Nigel Wray, a man who genuinely cares about rugby, unlike corrupt twats like tony rowe, helping players set up careers after they retire because he knows how shit it can be for them. They’d have been at sarries anyway so makes no fuckin difference to the outcomes of the season. U dickheads just believe what u want cos hatred defines you
@@p-rate-plate2152 init
Relevance to this game is...
Goode should have been red. Purely intentional foul at head.