I miss the way classic was at launch. Where people were leveling and experiencing content like dungeons and questing. Im keen to level new characters, but I'm not interested in boosting at all. I'd start fresh for that initial experience again.
I was lucky to have that initial experience with first pandemic wave back in march. People were running dungeons and questing and helping each other out etc. Wonderful experience. Now I got to quest alone and maybe have luck to find a Mara group that is not boosting. :C
I haven't raided in classic. So my knowledge is minimal But surely I can't see TBC raids being much harder then classic , as people will play the game smarter. Like they did in classic. So I'm fairly sure the TBC raids will not that difficult in the current state
@@maxforster9892 progression isn't so one to the next like classic vanilla is. Many guilds will skip kael'thas, Lady Vashj, and Archemonde and even fewer will make it to twins in sunwell, let alone KJ. Patience is a virtue that most, especially retail players lack.
Heres the thing about tbc (being a private server player, but also take what I have to say with a grain of salt as the server may have altered things). Classes are SLIGHTLY more balanced than they were in vanilla. Shamans, druids, and shadow priests got significant buffs. Arguably, this expansion is when everyone coined the phrase boomkin. Not like in wotlk like everyone believes, though they did get another power boost then. The only good paladin to play as dps were BE because in tbc certain races got certain abilities with certain classes. IE BE with seal of blood. Raids were not hard. They were more challenging than molten core, perhaps, but that's about it. Sunwell, on the other hand is actually pretty difficult. But mostly because of the dps checks. Fact of the matter is, these raids have been out for years and 1000s of guides are on the internet. People have these raids down and players are just all around better at the game today than they were before.
What I have learned about classic is that it is not the game itself that people miss but it is the feeling of what it was like to play back then 15 years ago that they miss the most. It is the feeling of a much better time in wow
Blizz should open fresh classic servers periodically, with no transfers from servers at a later phase. When the server is ready for TBC, split the server and merge the legacy version with another legacy server. This gives fresh servers for players who want them, and player infusions for legacy servers that would otherwise be slowly dying (I assume).
This is what a good 99% of us will be doing. We will charge through the portal at full speed and never look back. Blizzard pretty much guaranteed this with how they handled classic. The same shit developer will still be in charge... but since BC/LK are better games up front; they can suffer the damage and keep going. Classic could not.
@@YourDeathNoob WotLK has a special place in my heart personally. Classic has it's charm, but I want to return to the part of the game where things are fairly fleshed out for the PVE side of things and the honor system is a bit more fine tuned for PvP.
i would not be playing on a seasonal server. It is the same reason as i would not play on a private server, it may die and vanish at any time. Seasonal would be timebased but still is more like a neverending PTR. I want my characters to exist until i decide to delete them or the game is canceled completely :P.
Many, MANY private servers lived longer than Classic will. I played myself on private servers for years and this argument with "servers vanishing" is just bonkers. Some of them do, of course, but it's only a good thing - why? because you learn to not bond with a virtual character for life and give yourself an opportunity to start a new adventure at any point in your life. I've been playing wow since 2010 and I visited like 5 or 6 servers, and while I spent only months on some, I spent over 2 years on Atlantiss' T11 + T12 and it was a blast.
@@ashrasmun1 You are advocating for an even bigger bastardization than what retail wow could ever commit. The whole point of MMO's or rather the RPG part is that your character grows in power and ability. The reset basically spits in the face of the RPG aspect and the MMO aspect as a whole. There are other genres that you can play for 20 minutes and then forget about like MOBA's and BR's. If you want a single special sever that only lasts for like a year that is fine, but many classic players wanted to recreate their journey because they couldn't recognize the former mains on retail. If there is no stability then the MMO genre loses it's meaning.
@@Numbers_Game While I understand your argument about RPG part of the game (which I don't agree, but I understand), I cannot agree with seasonal servers ruining the MMO aspect. The whole Classic cycle could be treated as a "season". Is 2 years comparable to 20 minutes? I beg to differ. Some people (like you) think that RPG is all about constant increase in power, and I get that, but for many people, progression is more important than getting to the end. It's like, some people prefer chasing the rabbit, and some just want to get to the rabbit asap. I wouldn't like to create a new character on Classic, because it lost it's flavour after first phase - everyone was already boosting, spellcleaving and whatever. Everyone already knows what's up, so leveling up would be a waste of time. It would, however, be great to be able to join the server on which you get for example one lvl 55, and start getting into endgame content asap. 2 years pass, reset. I made multiple characters in my life and I never got into a point in which I lost a character, all the progression was lost and I decided that I'm never going to play again.
Keep classic the way it is, with people leaving to TBC servers, allow realm transfers. Open TBC servers, allow people to copy their character over from classic servers. People have waited over a decade for classic servers, if it dies then let it die in peace
Seasonal servers are the way to go. There's a reason why "seasons" are so popular in almost all online games now. They solve a lot of problems and the negatives aren't yet realized.
The only negative is lack of persistence, although Diablo 3 for example solves that by simply converting the character once the season is over and all items are transferred. It's a neat system, but it wouldn't really work as well in World of Warcraft.
I LOVE that you mentioned seasonal servers, and Runescape's leagues. I used to play RS, and OSRS is a great example of how to revitalize and maintain a game/community for a legacy game. The different servers, each with different purposes, the constant polling, and the quirky faster leveling events that upend metas, all serve to make the developer-player interactions flourish.
I want them to launch the TBC server 1 month early to simulate the pre patch, leave Classic as it is with the occasional fresh server depending on demand. When the TBC server goes up, use the same server list and restrict which servers you can transfer to in order to keep the communities together as best as possible. I would suggest leaving the fresh classic servers until after TBC has had its (presumably) 3 phases, I wouldn't mind playing a fresh classic server, but not quite yet. My main desire is to have my classic characters either cloned to the TBC server or onto a classic stasis server as default, I don't want players to feel they have to commit to 1 version of the game over the other, id like to play Classic with my guild 1 night and then with the same guild, TBC the next night
I think you hit the nail on the head with the good changes. First, the tried and true changes from pservers. No artificial lag (spellbatching, leeway), much higher render distance, PvE rebalancing, no boosting, worldbuffs removed (Light's Hope style?), new herb/mine nodes + more aggressive dynamic respawning (should combat the shortages). Then do some class rebalancing. It doesn't have to be major - only need pre-patch inspired changes to the shit hybrid specs, and then everything else can be changed in numbers/scaling changes (nerfs for warrior/rogues/mages, buffs for hunters). (For enhancement in particular, it might also be a good idea to allow them to "turn in" tier gear that drops in raid in exchange for an enhance statted version since they also struggle on gear. Not as relevant for ret though, which can wear a bunch of fury warrior stuff). Finally, changing the honor system to be based on an Elo/MMR system, so that top premades can have high level play against one another, and pugs who just want to fuck around can fight eachother instead of getting dumpstered by premades. That would be my dream, and I think it is pretty doable.
Blizzard have already implemented Seasonal style play in D3. A similar mechanic should be implemented. Play seasonal and at the end, all gear/inventory is then transferred to your non-seasonal server.
WillE is like we should make private server content! YES..... but i dont want BOTS this time FFS. Activision has to fix is bot problem and im sure the damage is already done.
@@britneyspheres7yearsago11 It's because of the inherent value that things have in the game. Because people buy things from the bots for real money, it's worth doing it. If not for that, we wouldn't see nearly as many bots.
@IberianArmy You severely overestimate how much they earn from bots. Oh, and you're probably one of the most ignorant people ever if you believe bots don't affect you. Either that or you don't actually play the game.
For your next poll, please do a *_"Would you ever copy/transfer your 60 characters to a new Classic realm with SIGNIFICANT _**_#changes_**_ if you had that chance?"_* (e.g. *_1.5 AV_* / *_old epic mounts models_* brought back / most of the ones you suggested in this video but Class tuning imho), so basically a full fledged Classic + server but only for 60 characters. In doing so, people would still have to: - level up on Legacy servers first => this will mitigate the playerbase fragmentation again Also, I really liked your Seasonal Servers suggestion, but I'd add the possibility for us to be able to transfer those temporary characters to a legit Legacy Realm before the whole 12-months seasonal server goes down (not sure if that was implied in the first case tbh).
Patch all the realms up to BC then release new classic ones for those that want to stay behind. This is the most logical route because 99% of us will want to go to outlands with the characters we already worked up. One guy called me a "pleb" recently but you wait and see. If they don't patch these realms up... you're going to have one long row of empty classic realms that now need merges. Most likely, they'd just shovel the realms and YOU would be stuck paying for transfers to get to the 1 good classic realm that survived. This situation could be avoided in the first place however if they just patched the realms up then made a smaller handful of new ones for classic.
"Patch all the realms up to BC then release new classic ones for those that want to stay behind. " I don't agree. A lot of people who leveled slowly are still working on their characters. There needs to be choice rather than what you think people want. I'll move over to TBC however they do it and probably never look back.
TL:DR - How OSRS Seasonal servers (Leagues) have worked. One thing that should be noted about leagues in OSRS is that many players play the start of a league (Jagex underestimated the launch server count for the recent league) but the population drop-off is quick in most cases. I think the recent introduction of the point-unlock task system for newer players, and the introduction of combat and skilling relics (essentially skill trees) in the newer trailblazer league is what increased player retention. For those that don't know, Jagex does seasonal servers with unique, creative mechanics that completely change the nature of the playing experience. The most recent league had a region-locked system and as you completed tasks within the regions you could unlock more regions and the experience rates got better (up to 16x normal xp). This xp increase also applied to some turn-in quests that resulted in some players getting millions of xp in a single game tick all at once. I do not think region-locking or ironman mode (self-sufficient) would be particularly good in WoW classic, but I like the idea of experimenting with the game to create a unique experience. Edit: I also forgot that one of the big contributions to the success of Leagues is that Jagex reached out and collaborated with the Wiki to make sure that all region, spawn, and other information was correct for wiki items and quests (though of course, they didn't catch everything, the game is silly huge).
TBC and Wrath were the golden age of WoW. I'll certainly be moving to TBC. I think they just need to open up several classic only servers and leave them forever.
About seasonal servers there is a french MMO called "Dofus" who actualy do it, every year they open a new server with new rules that change the way you play the game. Every seasonal server launch we see tons of players coming back on the game and it's very refreshing. Also Dofus is an old MM who launched in the same period as WoW and has recently opened "classic" servers of the original version of the game and just as WoW it has been a complete succes.
I think a lot of people would be interested in a fresh classic server done right, just not right now. Most of us have been playing classic daily for over a year and are ready for something "new" like TBC.
I'm interested in a fresh server by this time next year. Classic was released for the private server community after mountains of effort, there's simply no reason to let Vanilla decay, otherwise we'll go reroll on the next best thing - and I would always select Blizzard operated servers.
@@zugdarr i do think they should release more classic servers. a lot of people only play classic im sure. just personally for me "and i think a lot of people" i would enjoy something else for a while.
Sadly I don't think blizz dare doing something weird. They found a "easy" way to pump alot of money of this classic stick. Sure when classic wotlk is done something like fun servers might be relevant. But that's like 2024, by then the market have prob shifted.
i think one thing they could do to satisfy the people who want a fresh start without all the high level and stupidly rich people, they could have some servers locked of where people can only start fresh on it and lock it off so no one could transfer to it but only transfer from it and then after some time unlock it because at that point it wont even matter if you start fresh on it with say 4-6 months have gone past after its release.
im gonna play tbc but im just over bots and dungeon boosts, the whole idea of classic was so we can play as a community and boosting has really ruined that
I personally dont mind classic fresh servers with a lot of changes that you proposed, as long as there is a fresh classic server, the original vanilla one. Except batching, leeway and layering this time around. Think about people who still havent tried the original classic, but dont want to start in p6. You need fresh servers for them to experience the original game.
Can’t wait for TBC classic. Going to be amazing just like current classic. I just hope they let us start lvling shamans/paladins with the pre patch launch so we can be ready for when the portal opens. Nice Video as usual. Hope you got more info for us soon!!!!!!
Because of how horrible the grind is due to borked AH's, boosters, and an utter lack of grouping me and my friend kind of abandoned classic for the time being. If/when TBC is released odds are we'll get back into the game, but some of these things listed here would potentially bring me/us back to the fold.
I'd largerly prefer to have changes tested on a PTR and applied to the classic permanant servers if the experiment is successful, and keep a couple pure vanilla servers instead of seasonnal servers. I want Classic+ but not if my progress is wiped every couple month, retail does that too well to my liking.
I'm all for the idea of seasons. They're still fun even in Diablo 3 and I'm not sure there's been an MMO that's tried the seasonal format before. I think there's a lot of potential to be had if they decide to do it
I really hope that they do seasonal servers with changes. It would be really cool. I'd even be okay with rewards so long as they stayed on seasonal servers only. Things like titles and maybe a pet for the top 1%. A structure like: participated (got to at least lvl 20) - Title "participant" Cleared a main objective - Title related to said objective Cleared objective in the top 100/world first/top 1% - Title and a pet. Titles carry over to future seasons. The participant title is always the same (literally a participation trophy). Objective based titles should be descriptive but at the end of the day its just a string of text before or after your name (shouldn't require much in the way of resources). Top 1% is the same title but you also get a pet that is either a recolor of an existing pet or just a boss model made into a pet.
SAAAAAME! One of every class of each faction, so 16 decked out toons! That's gonna take me over a decade at my pace. This was supposed to be the answer to "can I play only one game for the rest of my life?"
@@laner.845 I think they forget that we're all Mum and Dad now days there's probably going to be more than 100000 office paying $15 a month and maybe playing 20 hours a month
@@australiaisnotrealjustaska4379 yup, nailed it. The original Vanilla crew is a completely different generation from the kids and college students these days. Some are two or three generations removed.
I still think Classic would be really cool if they structured it like OSRS/RS, even if it was just a seasonal thing to test it. Two main things (there are a lot more important details, but these are the upfront, fundamental changes): 1.) Boss loot/rare items. Rather than having all bosses drop loot on a weekly lockout, make it so that bosses have a small chance of dropping a single (maybe 2, very very rarely) piece of loot, but there is no lockout. Then, make it so all gear items are tradeable and non binding. This is how gear in runescape works. I know everyone will say that it makes it pay to win, but it doesn't work like that in runescape. Everyone can tell someone who earned it from someone who rwts for it. There is even a specific meme about "mom's credit card." 2.) Make all professions accessible to all players, but they take much longer to level, especially once you reach higher levels. (for example, in runescape, 1-2 takes 83 xp, whereas 98-99 takes ~1.2m xp). This would have a cool effect especially in the early game with people rushing to make devilsaur sets and onyxia cloaks, etc. You could also potentially do highscores for "virtual levels" (levelling past max, but has no effect on the actual skill level, just shows how much you have trained it) or something like that. Runescape economy is much, much, much more gold-centric than any other economy I've seen in a similar type of mmo and it makes it have very different incentives. You do PvM (PvE) to get gold, then use that gold to buy good equipment which is extremely expensive, requiring hundreds of hours of efficient grinding in a skilled group to obtain a single piece, such as twisted bow or elysian spirit shield. This means that if you enjoy speed clearing raids over and over again to farm good drops, you can do so or if you like farming ores to get your gear, you can do that. One will, undoubtedly, be more efficient, but there is so much player freedom in runescape as compared to more typical/traditional (i.e. WoW-like) MMOs. I love TBC and it was where I started, but frankly in hindsight, I think a lot of the problems with wow becoming more theme park and less sandbox started with TBC and vanilla has a charm to it that no other xpac ever matched, so I'd like to see Blizzard at least try out different approaches to give the game more longevity than a simple re-release patch cycle. Edit: for things like onyxia cloak, devilsaur (or any crafted item), you would need to have either a cooldown on crafting them or make the reagents rare drops instead of guaranteed, to prevent people from funneling resources into one character to rush them to max LW and have a total monopoly on creating a ton of them. Again, this sort of thing would create lots of different incentives and would definitely force people to re-think their approach to the game economically, while leaving it open to any sort of balance/gameplay changes.
I would agree with the 'fresh with major changes' but not specifically the changes you mentioned, I would prefer to see batching and leeway gone, prenerf raids, maybe new raids based off what they were setting up and working on during retail vanilla. But not things that would fundamentally change the game.
What do you think will happen with Classic once TBC comes out? I'm personally not that interested in TBC, but I'm not a hardcore Classic player so I'm afraid that the Classic servers will dissapear once TBC comes out. That would really suck.
Id be up for seasonal because I could try a new class. But hat I really want to see is a semi-hardcore server; Where every time you die that character is locked for 24 hours, and every NPC has a long respawn as well. It would completely change the meta for pvp and add tension, and you could wipe out a major city and everything in it would be gone for a set time.
I feel like seasonal servers would not really be that difficult for them. They already have basic systems set up for that kind of thing from Mythic+ affixes. While not the most riveting changes, would be a great foundation to start with. Changing class scaling, world buff meta, etc would also be a ton of fun because there would be no set meta to follow. Leveling would be a quick adjustment too now that Shadowlands has a level cap of 60. Just copy/paste xp to level, mob xp and quest xp, boom. I reckon it would end up being less than 3 days to level without the normal bonuses and instant port to dungeons in retail
Combining things like the affixes from m+ into dungeons, while adding passives that change your class like some of the torghast builds do, would make each season play completely different
Seasonal servers have been a dream of mine since they announced WotLK. They already took Classic first, and now they were going to take TBC, which I had grown to love so much. I knew Diablo II had ladder, so why couldn't Blizz just do that to WoW as well?
Because the people who still play Diablo II are not playing Vanilla Diablo II, they play one of the many mobs or fan made expansion packs for the game.
that actually sounds really fun. If there was a season buff like "every second in combat decreases global-cd" or other fun shenanigans I can totally see myself hopping on and having some fun. But theres the problem, Blizzard...and Fun....
Actually 100% agree to your proposal. Edit: except for the seasonal bit. I would never play a character that has an expiration date attached to it. Pretty sure this goes for most people. If we just progress the servers as is, most servers will just be fucked in terms of population. Some people who just enjoy Classic will stop playing bc a lot of the content will make them level up against their will. If legacy servers aren't merged, should we get them, they'll all die due to people slowly leaving. And if we only got fresh TBC servers, most people would probably be pissed as they want to keep their names, characters and gear, going into TBC. For me personally, it's important to keep my lvl 60 toons as they are, as a bit of Classic with the option to do some fun pvp, every now and then. If there were no such option, I'd keep them as is and never level them up. Anything else would just be a repeat of retail, which is what got us private servers, in the first place. But I also want to power level to 70 with a group of friends like I did for Classic. That was the most fun I had these entire 16 or so months. Character copies are the way to go that'll make everyone happy, no matter their preference.
The wow seasonal servers i've played are sick, like project ascension for example. HOWEVER, that example is extremely different from vanilla wow; it's basically a whole new game set in the warcraft world. I don't think seasonal servers will work for another 3-4 years when the playerbase gets behind them. That being said, there is absolutely HUGE potential in a seasonal meta game version of WoW.
I'm confident that Fresh can be a valid option for certain people but it's not the answer for a continued experience. Continued Classic Experience = Game Replayability which in WoW translates to Alts. As I seriously doubt Blizzard would ever invest in a true Classic+ project at this point (despite the fact that reusing "old" assets from other expansion would be much cheaper than creating anything from scratch), they could at least implement an account-wide progression system which players can use to unlock convenience (strictly non-performance-related) features. That could include, for instance: newer flight paths, closer cemeteries, more mail boxes/vendors/banks and other facilities that could improve gameplay and speed up alt leveling. The above would be a non-invasive modification of the game to bring at least some parts of it (which, tell me what you want, are - and were even back then - simply ill conceived) in line with a more modern gameplay.
Most people commenting, as far as I have read their own statements, have not even raided in classic, not to mention the Naxxramas content. I'm in a guild since November 2019, and even though I dislike making appointments for raids, I eventually only missed one raid in about 14 months. These guys, all adults with jobs and many with children, are the player base I personally wanna play with. I don't think that tbc will live up to the hype of classic anymore. Raids with 10-25 people are more flexible, in interchangeable per guild, but this will rip out the core of a guild. If I was downgraded to the second guild's raids, or replaced, I would not have raided every week for more than a year in a row. Having 40 people at once was the most inspiring part of World of Warcraft to me. Even though my priest heal was sometimes the best healer and many times underperforming because of all the overheals, I still don't want to play in a raid with less people and more responsibility.
Not gonna lie, I really like the idea of seasonal server even though I'm not sure I would re-roll right away since I'm more into moving into TBC. But comparing with D3, seasons really gave the game some new life so to speak. But beyond that, I'm more worry about server population balance moving into TBC more than anything, I'm currently playing on a rather death faction (Westfall - Horde) and though a lot of people is counting on a lot of new horde player due to racials for rading guilds I'm not that optimistic and even if the table turns and it might make the problem "disappear" for me is not really a fix since alliance would have the some problem as we have now. I think blizz should commit to have a more active roll balancing population this time around. Great video, I'd like to hear your thoughts about this topic.
Just my two cents but I think it would be great if at the point where the last raid of TBC is finished (final raid cleared or some percentage of guilds full clear) on a server a rescale happens. The vanilla content (raids, tier gear, purple weps, and legendaries) are scaled up to be on par with endgame content of TBC. Then hold it there and begin introducing content that was never finished or put into the game such as that area by Karazhan or that island I have seen mentioned. I have always thought it is a shame that things like vanilla legendaries and such are not so legendary in the next expansion. They could have a team working on the scale up plan for raids and purple gear all the way to the release of the final raid. There are so many interesting items from Vanilla that the mixing and matching with the TBC gear at top level would make things really interesting. Especially when used in the "unreleased-now-released" new content or pvp. Tons of character variety.
According to the most recent leak TBC will release on 4th May, and prepatch will be on 14th April. It also implies all realms will progress automatically to TBC (which should be surprise to nobody)
I think seasonal would be awesome, but player apathy is gonna be quite strong for Vanilla content for a little while. I think they should probably see how TBC goes and then consider seasonal servers for vanilla alongside or perhaps during a low point in Wrath relaunch or something. Ultimately, I think any new classic servers will be fairly underwhelming population wise compared to other options, but the real appeal for blizzard IMO for fresh classic servers asap is to experiment with the formula ahead of TBC/Wrath, which are probably some guaranteed slamdunk financial years for the company.
I would LOVE to see seasonal servers if the progress at the end can be transferred to the normal classic server. Obviously if something like OP ele shamans happen I don't expect that to carry over to the normal classic server, but I'd love to still keep that shaman when the season ends instead of having him deleted. Then I can be like yeah this is my shaman in naxx dps gear I used to use on the seasonal server. Also I would only play classic for any amount of time after tbc classic if some sweeping changes were made. No more world buffs in raids is a pretty easy one most people agree on but I personally would also like to see stuff like pallies and shaman being made available to everyone, craftable Edgemasters Handguards (those things are WAY too expensive on most servers), and maybe slight buffs to meme specs so they arent "meme" so much as they are just average
Significant changes could also include things which some private servers introduced; the best(and worst) server i've ever played was Ascension, and PVP high Risk (Factions are FFA, loot drops on player kill like in runescape, pick own rainbow spec) made the game completely new and exciting. while making the regular feel dull.
I just want to take everything I've built to TBC, but this time with #somechanges (looking at you, Leatherworking). You're right and I think we can all see that #NoChanges was not the best possible classic, so I hope that's learned from. Was still a lot of fun though, but round 3? Maybe in twenty years for me. Onward.
As long as the main classic game progresses to TBC I would be happy for seasonal servers to exist. One problem with seasonal though - to use your example, say Enh shaman is the new top DPS. EVERY dps would roll it, far higher percentage than even fury warriors in current classic.
I don't know how much I'll be playing either. 2020 was a special case and I don't know what the future looks like. But I will be playing TBC and if there are fresh classic servers, I would probably dabble a little. Doing stuff a little differently, maybe playing a new class or at least switching factions.
I wanna play fresh start server with balance changes. No meme specs. No world buffs, or buy it from npc so you don't need to w8 logout. Pvp gear with better loot system than rank 14
@@Drain_Life_Archive no tbc still have meme specs and fly mounts. So in 2 years we will have retail, classic , tbc classic and wtlk classic? I prefer 2 versions of the game . Retail and classic. the classic with seasons sound's ok if you can maintain then in non season realm.
Meme specs are in classic; nothing else. Flying was never mentioned before now. If you want to stay on classic, that's fine, but you're not going to have all the balance changes that BC had. If you want those, you need to go up to BC like the rest of us will be doing.
Imho, idealy, Blizzard should rework their whole character management system and let players decide on a per character basis when and where that character would progress into another expansion. Then have at least one server for each expansion and you're done. Seasonal servers, although totally not my cup if tea, could be added on top, maybe requiring a certain minimum number of players total on that expansion.
Personally i lean towards fresh/level start 58 servers for TBC. Mainly due to the inflated gold market in classic compared to the lower gold income in TBC (mostly due to aoe nerfs). As blizz once said in vanilla most people didn't do nax. While these days i'd say almost anyone who is max level has. The economy and playerbase is different now to back then. While yes taking all my gold into TBC guarantees me max level flying and more or less anything i want as soon as my level allows it i also feel it takes some of the experience/fun out of it. Servers running on TBC client/patch with all classic raids unlocked. AOE nerfs would reduce boosts/massively boost levelling community (Atm its 99% boosters in LFG/world), Resets the economy and gold amounts to fit into TBC. No 420g an hour classic savings to carrying into TBC where the hourly gold made will be much lower. Also gives anyone who wants to play one of the new races a better start experience as more people to level with without being left behind in content (can have your shammys/pally there for week 1 raiding).
There should be content locked BG's. Where I could choose where the gear cap was for the BG. I know it's a big ask lol I think why classic pirate always wants a fresh is that the power creep gets out of control. With out a cap on gear the BG crowd disappears. Similar to when the raid gets too scaled up that it begins too take up too much of the players focus on one specific place in the game the game fails.
Hope they are smart and do fresh servers for TBC. Leveling XP for 1-60 becomes way less anyway They didn't even bother putting in anti botting software (for classic) and allowed people to bot for 1 year+ Tons of botted gold in economy Tons of people bringing TFs into TBC etc not really fun
I would love to see classic release on a fresh server with all 6 phases of content available from start. And watching the pro players strive for World first Naxx clear with all content available
Right now I have a main in classic that I've been parsing on, and I also have alts that I gear out in ZG/AQ20/MC/BWL and do BGs and other random things on the side. If they add seasonal servers, I could keep my main in TBC and instead of alts, I could play on these seasonal servers on the side instead. This is a really good idea and it would be really cool if they did it.
i havent done any research about this at all but i think all servers will move on to TBC and they will add 1 or 2 fresh vanilla servers, possibly with the seasonal idea except that it goes through all the phases again as blizz released them then starts over again.
What i think they should do: Make tbc progressive from classic Copy all classic characters to a second server to continue on the classic experience as is. When tbc releases, server transfers from high pop servers to low pop servers are removed. Free transfers from low pop to high pop servers. Any servers that end up with no remaining population are reset to day 1. Players cannot transfer to these servers but they can start fresh on them if they choose to do that. When the final boss of Naxx has been killed on all servers, all servers in classic will be reset.
Diablo 3 has done this to keep the game fresh. Now in Season 22. I think it's a great idea. Or even throw in a little mythic + elements to classic wow to make dungs harder and what not. Or add timers to really boost the speed running community. Hardcore servers anyone?
I think it would be really cool if Blizz just added new content to classic, making new raids that fit the mechanics and gameplay of classic. Obviously they aren't gonna do this because dev time + a lot of classic players have no faith in blizz so it probably wouldn't even go over well, but OSRS did it and that game is better then it ever was.
If TBC will use the same servers as we have now, I probably won't play. The biggest botch job of classic so far has been the state of server population management, if anything needs a reset, it's that.
imagine seasonal classic wow where everyone can only play as a paladin and gets a corrupted ashbringer and you have to full clear naxx to "cleanse" it. You start at lvl 1 and at 60 you get a dungeon quest that requires you to kill every end of dungeon boss (including lower level ones) scaled to 60. At the end you get a corrupted ashbringer and are tasked with clearing naxx. Once you complete the quest you get put on the leaderboard and get a title that carries over to the next season.
I think the invasion broke on my server. We are almost two weeks past completing the event and it's still going. Not complaining as it is giving people more stones/oils for naxx.
the problem with megaservers is, that TBC places aren't that big. If you had to put there like 8k people and half of them with flyin, things could get out of hand pretty fast
@@wisniamw yeah but looking at what classic is right now it can already get out of hand. Look at how phase 2 went, they didn't need flying mounts to kill the game for a while, and we got past it. And with arena I think that other than a few degenerates most people would PvP in the most efficient way possible and not waste time harrassing lowbies. I'm still concerned about how tbc is going to go at launch and can't imagine a worse time than most of us are going to have at launch anyways, it's going to be a bloodbath lol
5:00 the one thing about this poll is that I feel like people right now are still attached to their character, so I think some people are more likely to cling onto their current character than want to start over when there’s still some stuff to be done, mostly Naxx gearing. I think if you did this poll a year from now, a lot of people would be much more in favor of a new fresh Classic as people’s original servers stagnate.
lock tbc and wotlk classic at 60, so that classic gear from at least phase 6 is relevant. mainly because gear was easily replaceable in tbc is what made people not care about gear in naxx which discouraged many from progression
For the 2022 winter season, the theme of the server would be cracking down on anti-community behavior. All gold buyers, boost-buyers, botters, auction house skimmers/goblins and multiboxers (even manual ones) would get barred from the seasonal server, while being free to do their thing on the regular classic servers or retail.
seasonal is cool but changes should be limited, somewhat progressive, and community-driven. changes like spell batching removal/reduction and the minor changes they've made so far are perfect examples. start the next fresh the current changes and some new ones (like spell batching removal/reduction and leeway removal/reduction). add/alter raid boss mechanics to make them more difficult. experience rates should not be altered (although dungeon exp rates should be changed to nerf boosting). classes could get some minor rebalancing but adding new spells/talents changes the game too much. class changes would need to be minor tuning to certain abilities to nerf/buff them in certain situations. good example would be nerfing sap/polymorph duration in pvp or making feral druid damage scale with weapon damage to some degree. once the next fresh concludes, start the following fresh with that server's current changes rinse/repeat. community should be involved in the change decision-making process.
Personally I hope they keep classic and make TBC too. I would play classic - wotlk on my sub if they make them all. I would come back even for just fresh classic for now. I love the original feeling of classic as well as each side having a special class only to that faction, if they remove the boosting then that world pvp and stuff from classic would return. In TBC i enjoyed the changes, new zones, arenas, and still world pvp. TBC was the last game where it felt like world pvp was common. I loved wotlk but if they rework the LFD to require going to instance port to queue it will help it.
Seasons works in Diablo 3, and still even in Diablo 2 (Ladder). I don't understand how it's a bad idea in WoW. Private server ppl are indeed all over this idea. I don't think anyone understands how many people actually play Priv these days.
I miss the way classic was at launch. Where people were leveling and experiencing content like dungeons and questing. Im keen to level new characters, but I'm not interested in boosting at all. I'd start fresh for that initial experience again.
Me too dude!
Same here!
I was lucky to have that initial experience with first pandemic wave back in march. People were running dungeons and questing and helping each other out etc. Wonderful experience. Now I got to quest alone and maybe have luck to find a Mara group that is not boosting. :C
@@unius2009 Yep, my friends and I also started classic in March. Was a good time to join.
On Firemaw-EU it's still like that
Tbh, all we need is class balance, and harder raids, and it is naturally solved by TBC which requires less work than classic+ for blizzard.
I haven't raided in classic. So my knowledge is minimal
But surely I can't see TBC raids being much harder then classic , as people will play the game smarter. Like they did in classic. So I'm fairly sure the TBC raids will not that difficult in the current state
Class balance in TBC? Oh this comment will age well 😆
@@maxforster9892 progression isn't so one to the next like classic vanilla is. Many guilds will skip kael'thas, Lady Vashj, and Archemonde and even fewer will make it to twins in sunwell, let alone KJ. Patience is a virtue that most, especially retail players lack.
Heres the thing about tbc (being a private server player, but also take what I have to say with a grain of salt as the server may have altered things). Classes are SLIGHTLY more balanced than they were in vanilla. Shamans, druids, and shadow priests got significant buffs. Arguably, this expansion is when everyone coined the phrase boomkin. Not like in wotlk like everyone believes, though they did get another power boost then. The only good paladin to play as dps were BE because in tbc certain races got certain abilities with certain classes. IE BE with seal of blood.
Raids were not hard. They were more challenging than molten core, perhaps, but that's about it. Sunwell, on the other hand is actually pretty difficult. But mostly because of the dps checks. Fact of the matter is, these raids have been out for years and 1000s of guides are on the internet. People have these raids down and players are just all around better at the game today than they were before.
@end of daze He covers that in other videos. Yes, we know everyone will play Horde.
What I have learned about classic is that it is not the game itself that people miss but it is the feeling of what it was like to play back then 15 years ago that they miss the most. It is the feeling of a much better time in wow
Blizz should open fresh classic servers periodically, with no transfers from servers at a later phase. When the server is ready for TBC, split the server and merge the legacy version with another legacy server. This gives fresh servers for players who want them, and player infusions for legacy servers that would otherwise be slowly dying (I assume).
Sadly once TBC kicks in I will be leaving Classic forever and doing TBC only
I only played classic for the novelty and hoping they would make TBC so I could actually play the best version of WoW.
I only want TBC/WOTLK, I disslike Classic
This is what a good 99% of us will be doing. We will charge through the portal at full speed and never look back. Blizzard pretty much guaranteed this with how they handled classic. The same shit developer will still be in charge... but since BC/LK are better games up front; they can suffer the damage and keep going. Classic could not.
@@Drain_Life_Archive If they implement a level lock system on the Classic servers, I feel like the level 60 content can mostly be salvaged.
@@YourDeathNoob WotLK has a special place in my heart personally. Classic has it's charm, but I want to return to the part of the game where things are fairly fleshed out for the PVE side of things and the honor system is a bit more fine tuned for PvP.
i would not be playing on a seasonal server.
It is the same reason as i would not play on a private server, it may die and vanish at any time.
Seasonal would be timebased but still is more like a neverending PTR.
I want my characters to exist until i decide to delete them or the game is canceled completely :P.
you know, I never could sum up why I don't like the idea of seasonal expansions, but "neverending PTR" really hits the nail on the head.
Many, MANY private servers lived longer than Classic will. I played myself on private servers for years and this argument with "servers vanishing" is just bonkers. Some of them do, of course, but it's only a good thing - why? because you learn to not bond with a virtual character for life and give yourself an opportunity to start a new adventure at any point in your life. I've been playing wow since 2010 and I visited like 5 or 6 servers, and while I spent only months on some, I spent over 2 years on Atlantiss' T11 + T12 and it was a blast.
Well, at the end of the seasonal Blizz would have to give you the option to transfer your characters to the legacy servers.
@@ashrasmun1 You are advocating for an even bigger bastardization than what retail wow could ever commit. The whole point of MMO's or rather the RPG part is that your character grows in power and ability. The reset basically spits in the face of the RPG aspect and the MMO aspect as a whole. There are other genres that you can play for 20 minutes and then forget about like MOBA's and BR's.
If you want a single special sever that only lasts for like a year that is fine, but many classic players wanted to recreate their journey because they couldn't recognize the former mains on retail. If there is no stability then the MMO genre loses it's meaning.
@@Numbers_Game While I understand your argument about RPG part of the game (which I don't agree, but I understand), I cannot agree with seasonal servers ruining the MMO aspect. The whole Classic cycle could be treated as a "season". Is 2 years comparable to 20 minutes? I beg to differ. Some people (like you) think that RPG is all about constant increase in power, and I get that, but for many people, progression is more important than getting to the end. It's like, some people prefer chasing the rabbit, and some just want to get to the rabbit asap.
I wouldn't like to create a new character on Classic, because it lost it's flavour after first phase - everyone was already boosting, spellcleaving and whatever. Everyone already knows what's up, so leveling up would be a waste of time. It would, however, be great to be able to join the server on which you get for example one lvl 55, and start getting into endgame content asap. 2 years pass, reset.
I made multiple characters in my life and I never got into a point in which I lost a character, all the progression was lost and I decided that I'm never going to play again.
Keep classic the way it is, with people leaving to TBC servers, allow realm transfers.
Open TBC servers, allow people to copy their character over from classic servers.
People have waited over a decade for classic servers, if it dies then let it die in peace
Continue playing on current realm with the option to COPY to a Burning Crusade server! Dammit! Is it so hard??
Seasonal servers are the way to go. There's a reason why "seasons" are so popular in almost all online games now. They solve a lot of problems and the negatives aren't yet realized.
The only negative is lack of persistence, although Diablo 3 for example solves that by simply converting the character once the season is over and all items are transferred. It's a neat system, but it wouldn't really work as well in World of Warcraft.
@@CottidaeSEA think Diablo 2 instead
@@iddqdx I'm not too familiar with how it works in Diablo 2 as I've never been into the online side of that game. Always just played offline or LAN.
Facts
@@iddqdx but d2 loot system is better, and I doesn’t need others(or even gears) to clear contents.
I LOVE that you mentioned seasonal servers, and Runescape's leagues. I used to play RS, and OSRS is a great example of how to revitalize and maintain a game/community for a legacy game. The different servers, each with different purposes, the constant polling, and the quirky faster leveling events that upend metas, all serve to make the developer-player interactions flourish.
See ya in burning crusade 2021!
I want them to launch the TBC server 1 month early to simulate the pre patch, leave Classic as it is with the occasional fresh server depending on demand. When the TBC server goes up, use the same server list and restrict which servers you can transfer to in order to keep the communities together as best as possible. I would suggest leaving the fresh classic servers until after TBC has had its (presumably) 3 phases, I wouldn't mind playing a fresh classic server, but not quite yet. My main desire is to have my classic characters either cloned to the TBC server or onto a classic stasis server as default, I don't want players to feel they have to commit to 1 version of the game over the other, id like to play Classic with my guild 1 night and then with the same guild, TBC the next night
TBC where everyone starts from 0. Leveling experience along with the new races 😁
I think you hit the nail on the head with the good changes.
First, the tried and true changes from pservers. No artificial lag (spellbatching, leeway), much higher render distance, PvE rebalancing, no boosting, worldbuffs removed (Light's Hope style?), new herb/mine nodes + more aggressive dynamic respawning (should combat the shortages).
Then do some class rebalancing. It doesn't have to be major - only need pre-patch inspired changes to the shit hybrid specs, and then everything else can be changed in numbers/scaling changes (nerfs for warrior/rogues/mages, buffs for hunters). (For enhancement in particular, it might also be a good idea to allow them to "turn in" tier gear that drops in raid in exchange for an enhance statted version since they also struggle on gear. Not as relevant for ret though, which can wear a bunch of fury warrior stuff).
Finally, changing the honor system to be based on an Elo/MMR system, so that top premades can have high level play against one another, and pugs who just want to fuck around can fight eachother instead of getting dumpstered by premades.
That would be my dream, and I think it is pretty doable.
Blizzard have already implemented Seasonal style play in D3. A similar mechanic should be implemented. Play seasonal and at the end, all gear/inventory is then transferred to your non-seasonal server.
Jus logged into d3 this season for the first time since pd2 came out.. its dead af. Thats how seasoned wow would be in a few years.
this has already been discussed a lot and it doesnt fit to wow progression, not happening this video is useless basically
0:31 myth confirmed Ivus the forest lord exists
WillE is like we should make private server content!
YES..... but i dont want BOTS this time FFS. Activision has to fix is bot problem and im sure the damage is already done.
It’s crazy that retail has more bots than private servers
@@britneyspheres7yearsago11 It's because of the inherent value that things have in the game. Because people buy things from the bots for real money, it's worth doing it. If not for that, we wouldn't see nearly as many bots.
@@britneyspheres7yearsago11 Not really. There isn't nearly as much money to be made on illegal servers.
@IberianArmy You severely overestimate how much they earn from bots. Oh, and you're probably one of the most ignorant people ever if you believe bots don't affect you. Either that or you don't actually play the game.
Blizzard doesn’t care about classic. They purge bots every couple months then leave the game alone.
merry xmas wille thanks for a great year of videos :)
Good vid
this is pretty much what private severs do , so its great idea and i think it will work , whether blizz will do it is another thing .
Bots everywhere in shadowmoon valley
And Nagrand farming motes
Ni'hao!
My girlfriend and I started playing classic because we were casual players when TBC came out and I just want to relive Outland with her.
You're gonna laugh at me but it's true. A big part that can and will keep classic alive is the RP community
35% were positive, 75% were negative, you made me lose my math mind for a second there
its because some numbers are rounded in decimals
For your next poll, please do a *_"Would you ever copy/transfer your 60 characters to a new Classic realm with SIGNIFICANT _**_#changes_**_ if you had that chance?"_*
(e.g. *_1.5 AV_* / *_old epic mounts models_* brought back / most of the ones you suggested in this video but Class tuning imho), so basically a full fledged Classic + server but only for 60 characters.
In doing so, people would still have to:
- level up on Legacy servers first => this will mitigate the playerbase fragmentation again
Also, I really liked your Seasonal Servers suggestion, but I'd add the possibility for us to be able to transfer those temporary characters to a legit Legacy Realm before the whole 12-months seasonal server goes down (not sure if that was implied in the first case tbh).
Patch all the realms up to BC then release new classic ones for those that want to stay behind. This is the most logical route because 99% of us will want to go to outlands with the characters we already worked up. One guy called me a "pleb" recently but you wait and see. If they don't patch these realms up... you're going to have one long row of empty classic realms that now need merges. Most likely, they'd just shovel the realms and YOU would be stuck paying for transfers to get to the 1 good classic realm that survived. This situation could be avoided in the first place however if they just patched the realms up then made a smaller handful of new ones for classic.
also blizz showed in the past, that they can't handle proper merges
"Patch all the realms up to BC then release new classic ones for those that want to stay behind. " I don't agree. A lot of people who leveled slowly are still working on their characters. There needs to be choice rather than what you think people want. I'll move over to TBC however they do it and probably never look back.
@@robertp457 I think the answer was in the question.
TL:DR - How OSRS Seasonal servers (Leagues) have worked.
One thing that should be noted about leagues in OSRS is that many players play the start of a league (Jagex underestimated the launch server count for the recent league) but the population drop-off is quick in most cases. I think the recent introduction of the point-unlock task system for newer players, and the introduction of combat and skilling relics (essentially skill trees) in the newer trailblazer league is what increased player retention.
For those that don't know, Jagex does seasonal servers with unique, creative mechanics that completely change the nature of the playing experience. The most recent league had a region-locked system and as you completed tasks within the regions you could unlock more regions and the experience rates got better (up to 16x normal xp). This xp increase also applied to some turn-in quests that resulted in some players getting millions of xp in a single game tick all at once. I do not think region-locking or ironman mode (self-sufficient) would be particularly good in WoW classic, but I like the idea of experimenting with the game to create a unique experience.
Edit: I also forgot that one of the big contributions to the success of Leagues is that Jagex reached out and collaborated with the Wiki to make sure that all region, spawn, and other information was correct for wiki items and quests (though of course, they didn't catch everything, the game is silly huge).
TBC and Wrath were the golden age of WoW. I'll certainly be moving to TBC. I think they just need to open up several classic only servers and leave them forever.
About seasonal servers there is a french MMO called "Dofus" who actualy do it, every year they open a new server with new rules that change the way you play the game. Every seasonal server launch we see tons of players coming back on the game and it's very refreshing.
Also Dofus is an old MM who launched in the same period as WoW and has recently opened "classic" servers of the original version of the game and just as WoW it has been a complete succes.
I think a lot of people would be interested in a fresh classic server done right, just not right now. Most of us have been playing classic daily for over a year and are ready for something "new" like TBC.
I'm interested in a fresh server by this time next year. Classic was released for the private server community after mountains of effort, there's simply no reason to let Vanilla decay, otherwise we'll go reroll on the next best thing - and I would always select Blizzard operated servers.
@@zugdarr i do think they should release more classic servers. a lot of people only play classic im sure. just personally for me "and i think a lot of people" i would enjoy something else for a while.
Sadly I don't think blizz dare doing something weird. They found a "easy" way to pump alot of money of this classic stick. Sure when classic wotlk is done something like fun servers might be relevant. But that's like 2024, by then the market have prob shifted.
i think one thing they could do to satisfy the people who want a fresh start without all the high level and stupidly rich people, they could have some servers locked of where people can only start fresh on it and lock it off so no one could transfer to it but only transfer from it and then after some time unlock it because at that point it wont even matter if you start fresh on it with say 4-6 months have gone past after its release.
That’s a good idea
im gonna play tbc but im just over bots and dungeon boosts, the whole idea of classic was so we can play as a community and boosting has really ruined that
Transfer classic characters to retail , and making fresh tbc would be uuhh good, i would like to have my classic stuff on retail
I personally dont mind classic fresh servers with a lot of changes that you proposed, as long as there is a fresh classic server, the original vanilla one. Except batching, leeway and layering this time around. Think about people who still havent tried the original classic, but dont want to start in p6. You need fresh servers for them to experience the original game.
Yeah that’s me. The classic servers are dead for new players
ye gonne oen mate like blizzfrad are gever gona spend money on theisms gameo loooolloooooo
Can’t wait for TBC classic. Going to be amazing just like current classic. I just hope they let us start lvling shamans/paladins with the pre patch launch so we can be ready for when the portal opens. Nice Video as usual. Hope you got more info for us soon!!!!!!
Because of how horrible the grind is due to borked AH's, boosters, and an utter lack of grouping me and my friend kind of abandoned classic for the time being. If/when TBC is released odds are we'll get back into the game, but some of these things listed here would potentially bring me/us back to the fold.
I'd largerly prefer to have changes tested on a PTR and applied to the classic permanant servers if the experiment is successful, and keep a couple pure vanilla servers instead of seasonnal servers. I want Classic+ but not if my progress is wiped every couple month, retail does that too well to my liking.
I'm all for the idea of seasons. They're still fun even in Diablo 3 and I'm not sure there's been an MMO that's tried the seasonal format before. I think there's a lot of potential to be had if they decide to do it
I really hope that they do seasonal servers with changes. It would be really cool. I'd even be okay with rewards so long as they stayed on seasonal servers only. Things like titles and maybe a pet for the top 1%.
A structure like:
participated (got to at least lvl 20) - Title "participant"
Cleared a main objective - Title related to said objective
Cleared objective in the top 100/world first/top 1% - Title and a pet.
Titles carry over to future seasons. The participant title is always the same (literally a participation trophy). Objective based titles should be descriptive but at the end of the day its just a string of text before or after your name (shouldn't require much in the way of resources). Top 1% is the same title but you also get a pet that is either a recolor of an existing pet or just a boss model made into a pet.
I'm staying with classic I was wanted 10 characters fully decked out
SAAAAAME! One of every class of each faction, so 16 decked out toons! That's gonna take me over a decade at my pace. This was supposed to be the answer to "can I play only one game for the rest of my life?"
same here
@@laner.845 I think they forget that we're all Mum and Dad now days there's probably going to be more than 100000 office paying $15 a month and maybe playing 20 hours a month
@@australiaisnotrealjustaska4379 yup, nailed it. The original Vanilla crew is a completely different generation from the kids and college students these days. Some are two or three generations removed.
Why would you do this to yourself?
What I would give for Classic+!!! Revamped PVP; rebalanced classes; higher tuned raids (or no/caps on world buffs)
love your videos man
I am a Classic Legacy player. I think this video is full of very good ideas.
I still think Classic would be really cool if they structured it like OSRS/RS, even if it was just a seasonal thing to test it. Two main things (there are a lot more important details, but these are the upfront, fundamental changes):
1.) Boss loot/rare items. Rather than having all bosses drop loot on a weekly lockout, make it so that bosses have a small chance of dropping a single (maybe 2, very very rarely) piece of loot, but there is no lockout. Then, make it so all gear items are tradeable and non binding. This is how gear in runescape works. I know everyone will say that it makes it pay to win, but it doesn't work like that in runescape. Everyone can tell someone who earned it from someone who rwts for it. There is even a specific meme about "mom's credit card."
2.) Make all professions accessible to all players, but they take much longer to level, especially once you reach higher levels. (for example, in runescape, 1-2 takes 83 xp, whereas 98-99 takes ~1.2m xp). This would have a cool effect especially in the early game with people rushing to make devilsaur sets and onyxia cloaks, etc. You could also potentially do highscores for "virtual levels" (levelling past max, but has no effect on the actual skill level, just shows how much you have trained it) or something like that.
Runescape economy is much, much, much more gold-centric than any other economy I've seen in a similar type of mmo and it makes it have very different incentives. You do PvM (PvE) to get gold, then use that gold to buy good equipment which is extremely expensive, requiring hundreds of hours of efficient grinding in a skilled group to obtain a single piece, such as twisted bow or elysian spirit shield. This means that if you enjoy speed clearing raids over and over again to farm good drops, you can do so or if you like farming ores to get your gear, you can do that. One will, undoubtedly, be more efficient, but there is so much player freedom in runescape as compared to more typical/traditional (i.e. WoW-like) MMOs.
I love TBC and it was where I started, but frankly in hindsight, I think a lot of the problems with wow becoming more theme park and less sandbox started with TBC and vanilla has a charm to it that no other xpac ever matched, so I'd like to see Blizzard at least try out different approaches to give the game more longevity than a simple re-release patch cycle.
Edit: for things like onyxia cloak, devilsaur (or any crafted item), you would need to have either a cooldown on crafting them or make the reagents rare drops instead of guaranteed, to prevent people from funneling resources into one character to rush them to max LW and have a total monopoly on creating a ton of them. Again, this sort of thing would create lots of different incentives and would definitely force people to re-think their approach to the game economically, while leaving it open to any sort of balance/gameplay changes.
I would agree with the 'fresh with major changes' but not specifically the changes you mentioned, I would prefer to see batching and leeway gone, prenerf raids, maybe new raids based off what they were setting up and working on during retail vanilla. But not things that would fundamentally change the game.
What do you think will happen with Classic once TBC comes out?
I'm personally not that interested in TBC, but I'm not a hardcore Classic player so I'm afraid that the Classic servers will dissapear once TBC comes out. That would really suck.
They will probably get squished down to 2 pvp servers and a single pve server and allowed to exist until WoW shuts down
What mcfry said is spot on. It'll have a few realms and that's it because everyone else will be in outlands.
@@mcfry13 That make sense yeah. Thanks
Id be up for seasonal because I could try a new class. But hat I really want to see is a semi-hardcore server; Where every time you die that character is locked for 24 hours, and every NPC has a long respawn as well. It would completely change the meta for pvp and add tension, and you could wipe out a major city and everything in it would be gone for a set time.
I feel like seasonal servers would not really be that difficult for them. They already have basic systems set up for that kind of thing from Mythic+ affixes. While not the most riveting changes, would be a great foundation to start with. Changing class scaling, world buff meta, etc would also be a ton of fun because there would be no set meta to follow.
Leveling would be a quick adjustment too now that Shadowlands has a level cap of 60. Just copy/paste xp to level, mob xp and quest xp, boom. I reckon it would end up being less than 3 days to level without the normal bonuses and instant port to dungeons in retail
Combining things like the affixes from m+ into dungeons, while adding passives that change your class like some of the torghast builds do, would make each season play completely different
Seasonal servers have been a dream of mine since they announced WotLK. They already took Classic first, and now they were going to take TBC, which I had grown to love so much.
I knew Diablo II had ladder, so why couldn't Blizz just do that to WoW as well?
Because the people who still play Diablo II are not playing Vanilla Diablo II, they play one of the many mobs or fan made expansion packs for the game.
that actually sounds really fun. If there was a season buff like "every second in combat decreases global-cd" or other fun shenanigans I can totally see myself hopping on and having some fun. But theres the problem, Blizzard...and Fun....
Actually 100% agree to your proposal. Edit: except for the seasonal bit. I would never play a character that has an expiration date attached to it. Pretty sure this goes for most people.
If we just progress the servers as is, most servers will just be fucked in terms of population.
Some people who just enjoy Classic will stop playing bc a lot of the content will make them level up against their will.
If legacy servers aren't merged, should we get them, they'll all die due to people slowly leaving.
And if we only got fresh TBC servers, most people would probably be pissed as they want to keep their names, characters and gear, going into TBC.
For me personally, it's important to keep my lvl 60 toons as they are, as a bit of Classic with the option to do some fun pvp, every now and then. If there were no such option, I'd keep them as is and never level them up. Anything else would just be a repeat of retail, which is what got us private servers, in the first place.
But I also want to power level to 70 with a group of friends like I did for Classic. That was the most fun I had these entire 16 or so months. Character copies are the way to go that'll make everyone happy, no matter their preference.
The wow seasonal servers i've played are sick, like project ascension for example. HOWEVER, that example is extremely different from vanilla wow; it's basically a whole new game set in the warcraft world. I don't think seasonal servers will work for another 3-4 years when the playerbase gets behind them. That being said, there is absolutely HUGE potential in a seasonal meta game version of WoW.
I'm confident that Fresh can be a valid option for certain people but it's not the answer for a continued experience. Continued Classic Experience = Game Replayability which in WoW translates to Alts.
As I seriously doubt Blizzard would ever invest in a true Classic+ project at this point (despite the fact that reusing "old" assets from other expansion would be much cheaper than creating anything from scratch), they could at least implement an account-wide progression system which players can use to unlock convenience (strictly non-performance-related) features. That could include, for instance: newer flight paths, closer cemeteries, more mail boxes/vendors/banks and other facilities that could improve gameplay and speed up alt leveling. The above would be a non-invasive modification of the game to bring at least some parts of it (which, tell me what you want, are - and were even back then - simply ill conceived) in line with a more modern gameplay.
were getting fresh tbc wether you like it or not, and classic wont change
Most people commenting, as far as I have read their own statements, have not even raided in classic, not to mention the Naxxramas content. I'm in a guild since November 2019, and even though I dislike making appointments for raids, I eventually only missed one raid in about 14 months. These guys, all adults with jobs and many with children, are the player base I personally wanna play with. I don't think that tbc will live up to the hype of classic anymore. Raids with 10-25 people are more flexible, in interchangeable per guild, but this will rip out the core of a guild. If I was downgraded to the second guild's raids, or replaced, I would not have raided every week for more than a year in a row. Having 40 people at once was the most inspiring part of World of Warcraft to me. Even though my priest heal was sometimes the best healer and many times underperforming because of all the overheals, I still don't want to play in a raid with less people and more responsibility.
Classic must live on!
Not gonna lie, I really like the idea of seasonal server even though I'm not sure I would re-roll right away since I'm more into moving into TBC. But comparing with D3, seasons really gave the game some new life so to speak. But beyond that, I'm more worry about server population balance moving into TBC more than anything, I'm currently playing on a rather death faction (Westfall - Horde) and though a lot of people is counting on a lot of new horde player due to racials for rading guilds I'm not that optimistic and even if the table turns and it might make the problem "disappear" for me is not really a fix since alliance would have the some problem as we have now. I think blizz should commit to have a more active roll balancing population this time around. Great video, I'd like to hear your thoughts about this topic.
I just want to enter the Dark Portal with my main character i was focusing on for last year.
What would be so exciting about this? We can see this version of the game today, they never changed the quests, graphics or anything about TBC.
@@zugdarr it's the "latest" content from back then. Old spells, class feels, population etc.
Just my two cents but I think it would be great if at the point where the last raid of TBC is finished (final raid cleared or some percentage of guilds full clear) on a server a rescale happens. The vanilla content (raids, tier gear, purple weps, and legendaries) are scaled up to be on par with endgame content of TBC. Then hold it there and begin introducing content that was never finished or put into the game such as that area by Karazhan or that island I have seen mentioned. I have always thought it is a shame that things like vanilla legendaries and such are not so legendary in the next expansion. They could have a team working on the scale up plan for raids and purple gear all the way to the release of the final raid. There are so many interesting items from Vanilla that the mixing and matching with the TBC gear at top level would make things really interesting. Especially when used in the "unreleased-now-released" new content or pvp. Tons of character variety.
According to the most recent leak TBC will release on 4th May, and prepatch will be on 14th April. It also implies all realms will progress automatically to TBC (which should be surprise to nobody)
I just wanna have enough time to level a char to 60 in the time between tbc getting announced and then dropping, if it will be progressive
Im lvl 34 hunter. Im afraid it's too late for me to get 60 and enjoy getting pvp and pve gear
I think seasonal would be awesome, but player apathy is gonna be quite strong for Vanilla content for a little while. I think they should probably see how TBC goes and then consider seasonal servers for vanilla alongside or perhaps during a low point in Wrath relaunch or something.
Ultimately, I think any new classic servers will be fairly underwhelming population wise compared to other options, but the real appeal for blizzard IMO for fresh classic servers asap is to experiment with the formula ahead of TBC/Wrath, which are probably some guaranteed slamdunk financial years for the company.
I would LOVE to see seasonal servers if the progress at the end can be transferred to the normal classic server. Obviously if something like OP ele shamans happen I don't expect that to carry over to the normal classic server, but I'd love to still keep that shaman when the season ends instead of having him deleted. Then I can be like yeah this is my shaman in naxx dps gear I used to use on the seasonal server.
Also I would only play classic for any amount of time after tbc classic if some sweeping changes were made. No more world buffs in raids is a pretty easy one most people agree on but I personally would also like to see stuff like pallies and shaman being made available to everyone, craftable Edgemasters Handguards (those things are WAY too expensive on most servers), and maybe slight buffs to meme specs so they arent "meme" so much as they are just average
I agree Wille! They already "sort of" do this in Diablo 3
Significant changes could also include things which some private servers introduced; the best(and worst) server i've ever played was Ascension, and PVP high Risk (Factions are FFA, loot drops on player kill like in runescape, pick own rainbow spec) made the game completely new and exciting. while making the regular feel dull.
TBC pre-nerf would be amazing, but sadly it won't happen UNLESS everyone asks for it...
The way guilds were blowing by raids in Classic, I can see Blizzard making it harder. And I don't think raiders would be upset about it.
@@sineater7172 would be amazing ye
Implement the Ashbringer quest
I just want to take everything I've built to TBC, but this time with #somechanges (looking at you, Leatherworking).
You're right and I think we can all see that #NoChanges was not the best possible classic, so I hope that's learned from. Was still a lot of fun though, but round 3? Maybe in twenty years for me. Onward.
As long as the main classic game progresses to TBC I would be happy for seasonal servers to exist. One problem with seasonal though - to use your example, say Enh shaman is the new top DPS. EVERY dps would roll it, far higher percentage than even fury warriors in current classic.
I don't know how much I'll be playing either. 2020 was a special case and I don't know what the future looks like. But I will be playing TBC and if there are fresh classic servers, I would probably dabble a little. Doing stuff a little differently, maybe playing a new class or at least switching factions.
Seasonal WoW would be really fun, honestly.
Also, if I play TBC Classic I'll have to start all over anyway to play Blood Elf.
I wanna play fresh start server with balance changes. No meme specs. No world buffs, or buy it from npc so you don't need to w8 logout. Pvp gear with better loot system than rank 14
The game you're talking about is calling Burning Crusade.
@@Drain_Life_Archive no tbc still have meme specs and fly mounts. So in 2 years we will have retail, classic , tbc classic and wtlk classic? I prefer 2 versions of the game . Retail and classic. the classic with seasons sound's ok if you can maintain then in non season realm.
Meme specs are in classic; nothing else. Flying was never mentioned before now. If you want to stay on classic, that's fine, but you're not going to have all the balance changes that BC had. If you want those, you need to go up to BC like the rest of us will be doing.
@end of daze check ret palas in tbc.. gl to be on top of dps. Hunter and locks are top in tbc.
Imho, idealy, Blizzard should rework their whole character management system and let players decide on a per character basis when and where that character would progress into another expansion.
Then have at least one server for each expansion and you're done. Seasonal servers, although totally not my cup if tea, could be added on top, maybe requiring a certain minimum number of players total on that expansion.
Bots and server population issues are the most important issues to address as no matter which route is taken, they will make or break it.
Personally i lean towards fresh/level start 58 servers for TBC. Mainly due to the inflated gold market in classic compared to the lower gold income in TBC (mostly due to aoe nerfs). As blizz once said in vanilla most people didn't do nax. While these days i'd say almost anyone who is max level has. The economy and playerbase is different now to back then. While yes taking all my gold into TBC guarantees me max level flying and more or less anything i want as soon as my level allows it i also feel it takes some of the experience/fun out of it.
Servers running on TBC client/patch with all classic raids unlocked. AOE nerfs would reduce boosts/massively boost levelling community (Atm its 99% boosters in LFG/world), Resets the economy and gold amounts to fit into TBC. No 420g an hour classic savings to carrying into TBC where the hourly gold made will be much lower. Also gives anyone who wants to play one of the new races a better start experience as more people to level with without being left behind in content (can have your shammys/pally there for week 1 raiding).
There should be content locked BG's.
Where I could choose where the gear cap was for the BG.
I know it's a big ask lol
I think why classic pirate always wants a fresh is that the power creep gets out of control.
With out a cap on gear the BG crowd disappears.
Similar to when the raid gets too scaled up that it begins too take up too much of the players focus on one specific place in the game the game fails.
Hope they are smart and do fresh servers for TBC. Leveling XP for 1-60 becomes way less anyway
They didn't even bother putting in anti botting software (for classic) and allowed people to bot for 1 year+
Tons of botted gold in economy
Tons of people bringing TFs into TBC etc
not really fun
I would love to see classic release on a fresh server with all 6 phases of content available from start. And watching the pro players strive for World first Naxx clear with all content available
Right now I have a main in classic that I've been parsing on, and I also have alts that I gear out in ZG/AQ20/MC/BWL and do BGs and other random things on the side. If they add seasonal servers, I could keep my main in TBC and instead of alts, I could play on these seasonal servers on the side instead. This is a really good idea and it would be really cool if they did it.
If my character doesn't copy over to TBC then WOW dies for me.
i havent done any research about this at all but i think all servers will move on to TBC and they will add 1 or 2 fresh vanilla servers, possibly with the seasonal idea except that it goes through all the phases again as blizz released them then starts over again.
What i think they should do:
Make tbc progressive from classic
Copy all classic characters to a second server to continue on the classic experience as is.
When tbc releases, server transfers from high pop servers to low pop servers are removed. Free transfers from low pop to high pop servers.
Any servers that end up with no remaining population are reset to day 1.
Players cannot transfer to these servers but they can start fresh on them if they choose to do that.
When the final boss of Naxx has been killed on all servers, all servers in classic will be reset.
We will get the bear minimum and you know it
Diablo 3 has done this to keep the game fresh. Now in Season 22. I think it's a great idea. Or even throw in a little mythic + elements to classic wow to make dungs harder and what not. Or add timers to really boost the speed running community. Hardcore servers anyone?
I think it would be really cool if Blizz just added new content to classic, making new raids that fit the mechanics and gameplay of classic. Obviously they aren't gonna do this because dev time + a lot of classic players have no faith in blizz so it probably wouldn't even go over well, but OSRS did it and that game is better then it ever was.
If TBC will use the same servers as we have now, I probably won't play. The biggest botch job of classic so far has been the state of server population management, if anything needs a reset, it's that.
Fuck that such a dumb suggestion. You people really don't understand the draw of an MMO do you?
imagine seasonal classic wow where everyone can only play as a paladin and gets a corrupted ashbringer and you have to full clear naxx to "cleanse" it. You start at lvl 1 and at 60 you get a dungeon quest that requires you to kill every end of dungeon boss (including lower level ones) scaled to 60. At the end you get a corrupted ashbringer and are tasked with clearing naxx. Once you complete the quest you get put on the leaderboard and get a title that carries over to the next season.
you know what change would be good? double spec... new ui... buffing everything to be on pair with 1.12 state of chars
I think the invasion broke on my server. We are almost two weeks past completing the event and it's still going. Not complaining as it is giving people more stones/oils for naxx.
1 or 2 legacy megaservers per expansion would be perfect to me
the problem with megaservers is, that TBC places aren't that big. If you had to put there like 8k people and half of them with flyin, things could get out of hand pretty fast
@@wisniamw yeah but looking at what classic is right now it can already get out of hand. Look at how phase 2 went, they didn't need flying mounts to kill the game for a while, and we got past it. And with arena I think that other than a few degenerates most people would PvP in the most efficient way possible and not waste time harrassing lowbies. I'm still concerned about how tbc is going to go at launch and can't imagine a worse time than most of us are going to have at launch anyways, it's going to be a bloodbath lol
5:00 the one thing about this poll is that I feel like people right now are still attached to their character, so I think some people are more likely to cling onto their current character than want to start over when there’s still some stuff to be done, mostly Naxx gearing. I think if you did this poll a year from now, a lot of people would be much more in favor of a new fresh Classic as people’s original servers stagnate.
lock tbc and wotlk classic at 60, so that classic gear from at least phase 6 is relevant. mainly because gear was easily replaceable in tbc is what made people not care about gear in naxx which discouraged many from progression
For the 2022 winter season, the theme of the server would be cracking down on anti-community behavior. All gold buyers, boost-buyers, botters, auction house skimmers/goblins and multiboxers (even manual ones) would get barred from the seasonal server, while being free to do their thing on the regular classic servers or retail.
seasonal is cool but changes should be limited, somewhat progressive, and community-driven. changes like spell batching removal/reduction and the minor changes they've made so far are perfect examples. start the next fresh the current changes and some new ones (like spell batching removal/reduction and leeway removal/reduction). add/alter raid boss mechanics to make them more difficult. experience rates should not be altered (although dungeon exp rates should be changed to nerf boosting). classes could get some minor rebalancing but adding new spells/talents changes the game too much. class changes would need to be minor tuning to certain abilities to nerf/buff them in certain situations. good example would be nerfing sap/polymorph duration in pvp or making feral druid damage scale with weapon damage to some degree. once the next fresh concludes, start the following fresh with that server's current changes rinse/repeat. community should be involved in the change decision-making process.
Personally I hope they keep classic and make TBC too. I would play classic - wotlk on my sub if they make them all. I would come back even for just fresh classic for now. I love the original feeling of classic as well as each side having a special class only to that faction, if they remove the boosting then that world pvp and stuff from classic would return.
In TBC i enjoyed the changes, new zones, arenas, and still world pvp. TBC was the last game where it felt like world pvp was common. I loved wotlk but if they rework the LFD to require going to instance port to queue it will help it.
So the character I'm playing now will mean nothing in 6-12 months? No
Seasons works in Diablo 3, and still even in Diablo 2 (Ladder). I don't understand how it's a bad idea in WoW. Private server ppl are indeed all over this idea.
I don't think anyone understands how many people actually play Priv these days.
1 - No more Mega Server pop
2 -true bam hammer every day on Bots
3 -New fresh BC realms !