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Sucks that LS has been doing this for more than a decade but redditors still assume he pulls his takes on the meta straight out of his ass if he doesn't immediately provide evidence or screenshots of their goat agreeing with him.
That's reddit, it's always been a cesspool of low elos who talk like they aren't. At least summonerschool has people's ranks next to their names.
its actually good that reddit posts like these are made. Then people start discussing more, bringing more attention to urgot, and why he is actually good. Analyzing matchups is always great. This urgot, believes because of his own experience and maybe vod reviews of other urgots laning against rumble, that rumble is a hard counter. Bwipo SAYS that, opposite is true only if URGOT HAS HANDS to play against rumble, if not then its hard to deal with [easy to get fked by rumble1v1 = hard counter by soloq thought process]. YEP
basically this urgot is worse than bwipo, that makes his own experience worse vs rumble, thats why he has this opinion. Only way to solve this matchup by himself, not by talking to pro players like Bwipo, is if he vod reviews for example Kin's urgot vs rumble, or bwipos. I do believe that Urgot is a very rare toplaner, that is kinda hard to get good vods to solve the matchup. YEP
He didn't even read the thread, in the post he says LS is coming from last year info, but Urgot changed in the meantime. And LS while defending himself he is saying how he remember talking about the match up last year with onion.
funny how after 10years+ in the scene, People still dont realise that LS has high lvl resource material, in form of top players that communitcate with him. They make it seem he takes all his stances just because he wants to be different and dont even listen to the things he says. And like always, braindead reddit takes the bait. Maybe just maybe realise that this guy knows what he is talking about and is more than open to any kind of open discussion, compared to any other high lvl streamer. im Pretty sure if i made enough uproar in the comment section/twitter and demanded to properly talk to him about something in a discussive matter, then i would be able to do so at one point. Dont know why him and dom are just reddits favorits.
yep LS has proven time and time again he knows what he's talking about
Neither player has provided evidence to substantiate his or her points. I talked with pro players/ high elo players isn't evidence.
Imagine if I said X item is good when a pro player bought it to LS when LS says pros build wrong items a lot.
People need to provide video clips of what's happening in the game and need to have some stats (non-anecdotal "data") to substantiate things.
@@ACE112ACE112 people still shouldnt default to saying that he's just talking out of his ass when he's proven fully capable. The other guy is just some rando.
@@aeririahelmold Neither person has provided evidence
Bro.... every single Urgot main on the planet knows Urgot sucks vs Rumble. The challenger Urgots label it as one of his HARDEST matchups. You have absolutely no idea about the matchup and neither does LS. "Oh but Urgot beats him at lvl 9 and one item!" Yeah, he can. As he does in most matchups. GETTING to that point is the hard part. Rumble absolutely dumpsters Urgot before that and the smallest mistake can make your lane over. I think you should take the word of the best Urgot otps in the world rather than LS who has very little idea about his matchups. Not hard to understand.
Reddit and Twitter are competing for who has dumbest league community
Bwipo wrote in his message that: 1) Rumble is hard to manage as Urgot 2) Rumble is hard to land against as Urgot 3) that Urgot counters Rumble hard after 1 item. How does this description lead to the conclusion that Urgot is a hard counter to Rumble in general? Wouldn't it just be a normal counter, since a hard counter is by definition better than the opposition in all situations, leading to utter defeat or complete nullification? Precision in language is hardly ever wrong, and I think it would be helpful to define things more precisely and name them clearly.
Bwipo said that it's a hard lane, that just means that it takes skill/effort.That is not the same thing as being hard countered. When you are hard countered, that means that the matchup deprives you of autonomy/ability to fight back. Malzahar has hard lane into LeBlanc because if you aren't careful she can kill you really easily, but once you get 6 you hard counter her because any time she tries to all in you, you just ult her and she can't do anything about it.
1 item is very little. There is no standard definition for what "hard counter" means, this isnt a semantics issue. If you play urgot vs rumble you have a significantly improved chance of winning. Thats all it is
@@christiannovak5340 The Malzahar LeBlanc matchup is a good example of a hard counter, as LeBlanc's entire game plan is nullified no matter how bad Malzahar is and how poorly he plays the lane, he just needs to be able to press R. However, I find your other points lacking. What requires no skill/effort? How does Rumble/Urgot interfere with each other's autonomy, to the point of outright nullification? Like I said, a counter yes, a hard counter I don't think so.
@@youssefsammouh501 Just because 1 item isn't the world, the first 14 minutes of the game are still significant, regardless of the role. Just because we use words carelessly at the moment, why shouldn't we strive to improve so that we have a clear and concise understanding of each other without the need for lengthy explanations. Such as, in this case, the distinction between an advantageous matchup, a counter, and a hard counter. And even now we have some understanding of a hard counter. As the previous commenter pointed out using the example of LB and Malz, would you say that Urgot and Rumble is a similar type of matchup/counter?
@Manker00 no, nothing is significant besides win rate when played correctly. What is the winrate of challenger otp urgot vs rumbles? Thats the only question you need to ask
LS and Front Page of Reddit, name something more iconic
Genuinely - the whole "Hannah Baker soon" thing, as well as the twitter name and icon - I dont find it funny anymore at some point. "haha suicide" - yeah, I get it.
I dont know, but after what Reckful did and having watched LS on dr k as well as his career recap stream etc - I just don't find it funny anymore. It just genuinely makes me feel like "we might lose LS soon too". And thats sad to me. I don't even watch his streams or videos anymore, I just dont vibe with most of the guests. He did the "career recap" so I guess there's no more high quality content like the freezing video coming, ever. Maybe im just a doomer, but this is just sad way things are turning out.
Yeah I'm genuinely concerned. Man gets so much absolutely vile hate online that I definitely wouldn't be able to handle in his shoes
Even if we can interpret the Bwipo statement differently, we should agree on one thing - The Urgot player said that "Rumble is one of the hardest counters to Urgot" which Bwipo's message is against.
We can disagree on definitions of "hard counter" but let's just notice that it is not clear cut - we have three opinions seemingly going in different directions (some a bit different, some opposite)
I don't think anyone who isn't directly in the pro scene has more resources than LS when it comes to studying this exact thing. It's crazy delusional to try and call him out on Reddit.
call him out? bro, an Urgot OTP GM outlines his opinion on Urgot's prevalence in pro play and he dedicated like 5 lines to why he disagrees with LS' opinion that he is a Rumble counter and explains why he doesn't think that's the case..that's somehow calling him out? 5 lines in a multi-page review on Urgot to dispel the thesis that LS himself put out there? how dare that guy have an opinion! how DARE he disagree!
Even if LS is right he can engage in a civil conversation..the guy just has a different experience playing the champ, no harm done
Is the reddit thread really calling LS out? The reddit poster who plays Urgot just made a post about why he thinks LS is wrong. Doesn't matter if he did it on UA-cam, reddit, twitter, pornhub etc.
Idk, I just checked stats and in GM/Challenger, Urgot is, on average, ~1k gold behind at 15 min vs Rumble.
I might be pisslow but just thinking about it, I don't see how Urgot ever wins unless Rumble is braindead and runs at you in straight line.
Are you... Inbred? It's a hard lane, of course you're going to be behind in gold on average. As Bwipo said, you hard counter him AFTER your first item.
thats a bad way to justify if a champion is good/bad against another. since some champions fundamentally function better with less gold, and are going to be behind, especially if its just the 15min mark. Plus there are champions where you would be ok with giving a gold lead because it doesnt matter and enables you to scale better
@@wchye9734 when I think of "hard counter", I think of someone who wins lane, not someone who can maybe survive the lane and potentially outscale. Especially in this case, where I really doubt that Urgot even outscales Rumble.
@@Cozeris sure, but regardless that’s a terrible way to dictate what is a hard counter or not. Because even hard counters a champion can go even in lane. Also when you are looking at gm/chal only data sample size can be very low especially depending on region.
People keep thinking "1k gold behind" is already "behind"
Here's the thing. Rumble needs gold to a certain extent until gold doesn't mean anything for him. Urgot flat out always has value just because of his kit at lvl 6.
@wchye9734 also said it. Gold leads are always dependent on the matchup. And gold means don't mean anything if you buy the wrong items even.
I understand the sentiment that hard counter = pure win lane. While that's not often true, that's a typical "vacuum answer" which is also why 1v1s are a terrible gauge, albeit much more visible.
That thread did not even attack him just disagreed and he proceeds to call it cancer, aids and an attack on him. Just say u disagree like a normal human being. And Bwipo in that DM didn't even disagree with the urgot player.
It's typical League streamer stuff. Everything is a personal attack
The thread isnt just the opening post my guy. I doubt the comments were civil considering how much reddit hates LS.
Bwipo kind of did, he said it was a hard counter (after 1 item), but lane is hard. thats still a hard counter then
I didn't see it as a personal attack on Urpog, more on the brain-lets on the sub that @ LS over this
@@wchye9734 it isn't though - it's hard to lane..and when rumble gets ahead, he runs all over you (worlds 23 perma B1 pick for that very reason)..so you hard counter only IF you survive about 12-15 minutes of suffering that is Rumble's early game? there are no conditions to hard countering..thats the definition of hard counter: better always (in every equal state of the game)...
lmfao "guys gragas counters yone he hurts me a lot during laning phase, and pushes me in"
gragas does counter yone
@@jmgalloway99 pain pain pain pain pain pain pain pain pain pain pain
I don't think the thread was to flake you, but to claim that you were incorrect on something, which isn't unreasonable to do.
Broi hate fking hate how LS speaks or even when he says his points so "agressive"...but u cant deny that most of the time his right whether you like or not
And i actually like it a lot, but i like your comment a lot as well :)
The Bwipo message didn't really back up LS too much.
What happenes to oniongod?
You two can disagree with each other, but he made this post with good will. Why call his thread c**cer and *ids?
Yeah. I love LS and I understand why he would be tilted by this (redditors are genuinely 100IQ) but he should be the bigger person and more professional approaching this kind of stuff.
Victim mindset.
the thread is cancer mostly because of the comments and as demonstrated, misconstrues LS original point
while the OP of the thread falls under the term "this thread" I'm not sure he meant OP specifically. He said his mentions we're filled with people seeing this thread and "attacking" him (for a lack of a better term, english is not my first language) just because they saw the post that disagreed with him.
He calls the thread, which includes the post AND the comments, "cancer" probably because of the people seeing this and just taking it to shit on him. As soon as someone disagrees with LS and makes a post on reddit that blows up, so many people just take it to shit on him. If anyone that seems like they are knowledgeable disagrees with LS, so many people take it as an opportunity to flame him.
The thread would be the same without mentioning LS but since he's mentioned, his haters just flock to it and use it as ammo. So in his view it's "cancer" because it gives his haters a new reason to flood him with more hate messages.
because the thread is CANCER and AIDS
damn. i hope league never gets shut down. i hate to see where all these lunatics move to. hopefully they move to roblox and not elsewhere.
jcole level response
lore on jcole?
@@ACE112ACE112 you should be informed (you live on mars otherwise) about the kendrick lamar vs drake beef. It originally included also a diss track towards Kendrick by JCole, in response to Like That, called Might Delete Later, which was a quite pitiful attempt and clearly made just because he was forced to respond. 5 seconds later he apologized and swiftly exited the beef.
@@ACE112ACE112 Dom and Ls are having a convo and random guy in chat has a T1 take. Ls apologies to dom, who proceeds to drop 3 legendary T1 Hater videos about guy in chat.
@@27flash27 Wdym "you should be informed" not everyone is up to date with normie celebrity gossip 💀
@@Kain1805 ik a little bit about the kendrick vs drake diss tracks but idk the details
Pretty sure thats an alt account LCS pro 😂
That thread was so cancer lmao
2024 and last shadow still being cringe
I dont get why Ls always gets giga tilted from stupid reddit post, like dunno 90% of posts are stupid or even more. If a lot of people ask him about it on social media or on stream why doesnt he just say the post is trash really quickly and moves on instead of getting so invested in random reddit threads
Taking 4 mins out of his day to argue against a thread about him on the "front page of Reddit" doesn't seem giga crazy
@@alextodLS seemed super tilted about the thread when he called it cancer and aids.
Neither person has provided evidence to prove his or her point.
He is on the autistic spectrum
That is why things that are not important tilts him so much
@ACE112ACE112 he cited 2 high elo/pro player opinions in the video... and yeah, I'd be tilted too if people kept making comments about my opinion without backing up any claims
@@alextod Ls's original tweet which he didn't show in the video was about was about a pro player self counter picking with rumble. he provided no evidence there. I don't think the redditor who made the post posted any real evidence aside from quoting some high elo urgot players.
I don't think the reddit poster had any malice toward LS.
It must be difficult to provide evidence and explanations on why the match up is good when you could just call the post cancer and aids and move on without proving your point 💀
He just disagreed with you... You don't need to be dramatic about it...
sure he does, he's a youtuber
Dom did the same thing with Udyr and people said theres no way Udyr beats rumble so he got a pro player and went into a custom game with Udyr and showed why Udyr beats Rumble
I don’t understand why some people are crying that the Reddit thread is true? This is a conclusion that LS reached WITH pro players. They talked and demonstrated that Urgot can be a good pick into Rumble. The onus now is on urpog for just shoving words into LS’s mouth while also contradicting himself with LS’s own resources. Bruh moment.
+1
both of them just spewed words my dude. There's really no evidence being thrown around yet one way or the other
I am an LS fan, but he didn’t show evidence here, what he did is an authority argument, that an Urgot player said, that rumble was good during the time.
Yes he also said he would be willing to demonstrate, what he says, but I am not sure, if there is any LS or rumble vs Urgot player demonstrating the Match up.
LS is definitly right about a lot of things, if you test them and he has some very interesting and good concepts about themes in draft, but in this clip he didn’t demonstrate anything.
Easiest thing to show, that he is often correct about, is itemization.
Collector vs LDR actually got me into running math on all of my champions, so now I know optimal itemization on mages, Tanks, enchanters and ADCs.
I still struggle a bit with fighters sometimes, but I am starting to slowly get the hang of their items and as well.
The community shift. Most player on reddit are ne player from 2017+ and that's being generous
love how bwipo didnt support his argument
worst LC clip i ever seen i got a lot of respect for LS but this is just bitching in no way did he actually defend his position with facts
sourcing 2 pro/high elo players that disagree with shittass "urpog" is definitely not defending his position!
@@alextod Sourcing others is a he said she said and is not an actual position LS being LS should be able to cite WHY it is a counter not go IDK ASK THEM! Your take is stupid. Do not be a sheep ask questions if LS says something is better i will believe him but i also want to know why.
@@alextodBro if you watch LS, you should know that he hates appeal to authority, so no, him asking pro players for their opinion is not sufficient evidence.
Crazy how, in the thread, not only do they argue that you are wrong, they are so deluded as to make it seem that them being right about you being wrong is like a fact, and with no evidence on the post other than themselves (not nessesarily unjustified, but it's showing complete dissonance to even consider another person's view of the matchup).
Have u read the reddit thread? The person literally goes indepth on why they believe what they believe.
LS using Bwipo and Onion is an appeal to authority fallacy which LS himself hates, and even Bwipo said that he thinks its hard to manage and lane against Rumble, and only after 1 item do you counter him. Thats not a hard counter either
I mean thats not really an appeal to authority fallacy, because the authority is accurate in this case and relevant. Its not just a pro player, its one that do understand urgot. But i mean if you really want to see him prove it, go tweet at him asking for clips he has done this before in the past,
I used to think LS was smart. Then I realised he is just an arrogant guy who uses big words to confuse his audience into thinking he's intelligent
He literally just proved that he could demonstrate why he was right while the other person on the thread couldn't. Can't tell if ur baiting, but if you are, good job.
having legit pro player connections is arrogance and big words for sure
@@bananaman1380LS didn't provide any evidence to to justify the claim that rumble is good/bad into Urgot. Saying I talked with a bunch of high rank players and pro players isn't evidence of anything. Bwipo says that one of the champions needs to get one item etc. isn't evidence. Show a video clip. LS says that he can demonstrate things at 2:35. Where is the video of Rumble being bad into Urgot? Are there any correlations that suggest Rumble loses/performs worse when playing into Urgot.
Also in general someone being wrong about something shouldn't matter in the sense that someone shouldn't be so invested into his or her opinion that when it gets proven wrong that he or she is malding. Not saying either LS nor redditor is rigjt/wrong
The Redditor Urgot player hasn't provided any evidence too. He says that he talked to high elo Urgot players. All of those players are going to have different skill levels.
edit: also anecdotal "data" isn't good due to it just being a few people's experiences.
Guys this is just a 2 min clip taken out from his stream where he talks about the effects of this Reddit thread. He can demonstrate it but he didn't. You shouldn't take this clip as some gospel it's a "clip & highlights" channel that is done by some editor of his
@@hazmat1LS didn't show a single message he got after the reddit thread gained traction.