Down the rabbit hole into the theories of the night photos from Kris Kremers & Lisanne Froon camera
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- Join me as we look deeper in the the theories of the night photos of Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon. Does the official narrative mach the night photos.
In the disappearance of these two Dutch girls, there are two hypotheses that I don't understand and I believe I need a more careful analysis:
1- If in the two calls to the Dutch emergency number, they were already under the control of kidnappers, why didn't the criminals take the phones, the camera and all their belongings?
This doesn't make any sense! No offenders with murderous or sexual intentions would risk being photographed by their victims, or even run the risk of girls calling the police or leaving a message recorded on their cell phones for when they are found by the authorities.
2- Why don't you have any attempt to call an emergency overnight?
What would be the worst moment for two girls from an urban environment, lost in the middle of a tropical jungle?
Do you agree with me that this worst moment would be to spend the night in the forest?! Exhausted, cold, with animals moving on the ground, animal movement in the dark forest, a plague of insects, rain spray, hunger, thirst and darkness everywhere. This would be without a doubt, the moment when they would try to connect to an emergency number, but they didn't! Which is very suspicious!
Trying to explain these two hypotheses, the best way to harmonize was as follows:
Lisanne and Kris decided on their own, to continue the trail long after the viewpoint, when they realized they could no longer make it back before nightfall, or because they really got lost and disoriented, they decided to make the first two calls in the late afternoon of the 1st. April. Without succeeding, he must have certainly screamed for help. They were certainly answered and rescued by someone who heard them both scream, or someone who somehow passed them on the trail. This would be an explanation of how girls did not call an emergency number during the night, that is, they felt safe to be accompanied by someone they believed to be trustworthy and well intentioned.
After that, they certainly went with that someone, to some nearby property, where they continued to be deceived by lies that reassured them, but that at dawn and after a night's sleep, they always tried to make another emergency call, until the cell phone battery has discharged.
It was at that moment that someone certain that they were totally incommunicado and certainly decided to attack and take their belongings that were all inside the backpack.
From then on, all the evil that befell the girls began.
In my opinion, between the moment the last cell phone ran out of charge and the dawn of the 8th, Kris Kremers was killed, so in the photos taken on the 8th, only the hair of a lifeless body of Kris appears, trying to simulate a disappearance, as if they were lost in the night trying to signal their position in the woods and kris dead in Lisanne's arms (who doesn't appear in the photos) for it's the killer planting false evidence, not Lisanne Froon!
As the pieces of Lisanne Froon's skin were found in June, in an initial state of decomposition, this shows that Lisanne was killed in early June and was under the control of someone who killed her for about 60 days. She was the last to die.
Note 1: Seeing the holes in Kris' Jeans, shows that her dead body was dragged a short distance, where it was thrown. That is, this may indicate that the place where Kris and Lisanne were killed and the bodies were chemically treated for dismemberment and then concealment, are very close to each other, and may be in the connections of this property or place, where they felt " safe".
Note 2: Kris Kremers' body is about 4 meters behind this rock that appears in the photo that was taken 18 seconds after the photo of Kris' hair.
In the hair photo, no lower right corner, you can see the contours of the girl's neck and ear with an earring that has a black square-shaped ornament. There's also something like A GAG OR GANGER around Kris Kremers' neck, like a white band two fingers' width apart.
Kris' body appears to be face down or leaning on the left side of the body.
I also got the impression that a person holding the camera is pulling Kris' hair up so he can photograph her hair from the back of her neck.
Note 3: Kris Kremers' boot found, it was clean and no remains inside, ok? No animal in the forest, would be interested in carrying a leather boot in its mouth! It's not food! That's how animals would see this boot, any object, as sniffed and gone. That boot was taken to the forest by the killer.
Note 4: The police know of more evidence, maybe even the photo that was deleted. At the very least, they want to make some strategic use or are hiding something that would prolong the investigations (they don't want that).
5- Accessing Kris' cell phone without entering the PIN code, it might be a stranger trying to access the cell phone, but I believe it could be Lisanne herself trying to access Kris' cell phone after Kris died and didn't say the password for Lisanne.
Conclusion: Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon, were held captive in an environment they thought was safe, were killed, stripped naked, with the bodies being dismembered by some as yet unknown chemical process. Some dismembered parts, along with the girls' boots, clothes and backpack with all the girls' belongings, were deliberately abandoned along the straight-line trail to create false leads and simulate that the girls died of hunger and thirst after getting lost in the deep in the forest.
The death of these innocent girls touched me a lot! This is my small contribution to unravel their deaths and thus lead to a punishment, the possible murderer and the possible collaborators.
Elias Lima, Fortaleza-CE, Brazil.
@Elias Lima : Brilliant analysis. You should make your own documentary on the subject. I share your opinion and am also convinced that the two girls were retained and murdered on a local farm, wich are a lot all round the trail, then buried in a field on the outskirts (Kriss in any case at first, hence the presence of phosphorus in her bones linked to the agricultural fertilizers). When the search operations gained momentum, the peasants became afraid and the bodies and objects were scattered to cover the tracks around the indigenous villages and also to make them accused ...
It should be noted besides that thanks to the native woman who brang back the backbag, most of all informations about this case have been learned. So isn't it absolutly disgusting that she never had been given a penny, of the reward yet promised, especially since all her family and tribe live in the higher poverty...? ...
I never saw anywhere, in any documentary, a single word written for this native woman and her people... What a shame for our so confortable "civilization"... Where Consciousness for decades is still missing and always... When did She disappear? And will She be found back one day, in the blind greed for consumption, by some rescue operation? ....
@@AlternActivesProd Envie novamente sua mensagem, não consegui abrir o "ler mais". Ocorreu algum erro.
@@eliaslima5506 Mensagem de retorno : Brilliant analysis. You should make your own documentary on the subject. I share your opinion and am also convinced that the two girls were retained and murdered on a local farm, wich are a lot all round the trail, then buried in a field on the outskirts (Kriss in any case at first, hence the presence of phosphorus in her bones linked to the agricultural fertilizers). When the search operations gained momentum, the peasants became afraid and the bodies and objects were scattered to cover the tracks around the indigenous villages and also to make them accused ...
It should be noted besides that thanks to the native woman who brang back the backbag, most of all informations about this case have been learned. So isn't it absolutly disgusting that she never had been given a penny, of the reward yet promised, especially since all her family and tribe live in the higher poverty...? ...
I never saw anywhere, in any documentary, a single word written for this native woman and her people... What a shame for our so confortable "civilization"... Where Consciousness for decades is still missing and always... When did She disappear? And will She be found back one day, in the blind greed for consumption, by some rescue operation? ....
@@AlternActivesProd Thank you for your comment.
I'm not an expert, I'm just an ordinary person who tried to see the relevant information about the disappearance of the girls, and analyze everything with the maximum of common sense, logic and full contact with reality.
About making a documentary, it takes more work, maybe if I ever decide to be a youtuber, I will definitely consider talking about the case of the Dutch girls who were murdered in Panama.
@@AlternActivesProd This theory you read is my old theory. I have a new one where I fix some things and look at phone calls in a different way.
I've been keeping up with this story. I was raised in rural Louisiana . Hunt , fished and camped in some remote places. Out of all UA-cam videos I believe you nailed it. Your explanation makes more sense than all other videos. At first I was leaning on homicide.
I think they didn't use good judgement and had no thoughts of the dangers involved in a remote dangerous place. They were from a small European country where most people don't even have a backyard. They went on this carefree adventure without any rules and got lost after wandering far off the trail. All of the sudden they were lost and it was getting late. I bet they didn't even consider time and it was getting late. And then one fell and got hurt. Terribly injured. And then mother nature slowly ended their lives. Here in the states we always think homicide due to movies and it being one of the most dangerous countries in the world now.
Thanks for your video. You are gifted.
I am having trouble believing they took these photos
In what state of mind were they? If they become irrational, it will be hard to make sense of all this.
I've seen many people suggest they might have been trying to attract attention with the flash. We can probably discount the possibility of a helicopter: I haven't heard it claimed that there was a helicopter searching for them at 1am on the 8th. What is someone came through the jungle at night and passed near the place where they were? Surely they could have made themselves heard? And why only take photos on this night, on the seventh /eighth day after getting lost? I still think that this is an attempt by the killer to ensure that the deleted photo is well and truly overwritten on the memory card, so there would be no chance of recovering that photo, while simultaneously adding apparent credibility to the narrative that they were lost.
I thought similarly; either someone is attempting to overwrite a series of images. This would explain why the girls who, up until that point, had well documented their trip, suddenly stopped. They hadn’t, merely any photographs taken were overwritten.
The other thought is that it was a local that recovered the camera, which was not with the girls. Attempted to use it / did not know whether it was in working condition, so took a number of pictures (albeit a lot for a check). I think that a few of the belongings found in their bags were in good condition because they were recovered a lot earlier than officially stated… maybe they were attempting to get the belongings back from the locals.
There was night search parties and helicopters in that area
These theories of killers forging a bunch of things to look like they were lost makes little sense... It would be much easier for killers to disappear with everything for good... I've already been kidnapped and criminals don't have time for that.. .They're pretty straightforward. They take any form of communication... It would be a huge risk for criminals to call 911... If there is foul play in this case, it was before the girls fled and were lost in the escape... Maybe they escaped from captivity... But after they fled I don't think the kidnappers had access to anything about them or to them... They could have been injured before or during the escape...Imagine a criminal using a flash... What a criminal wants most is to stay in the dark and not be seen. Think about it... its just my opinion...
@@videosdeecologia7468 So you think killers are always dull and just act the simplest way? Supposing you are the killer and want to hide things...is it really the best idea to keep everything secret so that the police and the relatives will go on searching forever because then this will be a lost or murder case? After the residues appeared the police closed the case very soon...mission completed. How do you explain deleted pic 509? Or the deaths of several young men involved in the case? Or that even the parents mentioned it is nearly impossible to get lost? Or that after the few bones and backpack appeared (only when there was a reward...) NO OTHER things have been found since then and the residues look strange (working phones, bras in backpack, bones with different conditions)? How do you explain that Kris hair looks neat in the night pic after several days in the jungle? Or that these night pics are taken in a way which does not allow to judge if the girls have been alive or not? Why are there so many attempts to call but no personal messages left? What is the logical explanation? The killers both know how to mislead people and fool the police because they are no beginners and they know the area VERY WELL (which includes the network connection).
If they were near a river (I believe some of the photos show that?), then it's likely the river was making a loud noise so their voices couldn't be heard over it. So the "flash as signal" theory still makes sense, except I'm also unsure if Seniproc did nighttime searches.
The night photos were not taken by Kris and Lisanne, they were taken at random by their killers to try and make it look like the girls got lost. Sadly Kris was already deceased at that time. 😢
The main problem I have with that theory is if you're the killer why leave any evidence behind at all? Why carry their cell phones around with you for 8 days or however long and make random calls to 911? Why risk any of that when you could just dispose of all of it? The fact of the matter is there is no more evidence that they were killed than there is that they got lost/injured. Let me ask you this, if someone did get lost or injured in the jungle with very little supplies how long do you think they would make it? Let's assume they have minimal drinking water that they can find from wherever they are... I would guess between 5 and 8 days. The bones were found months later. Do you think the Killers waited that long to let the bones float down the river?
@@Shacktown110 A great effort was done to make it look like or appear the 2 women had got lost and injured and died in the Jungle .
@@patriciaensey8601 I see that is what's being implied I'm just asking Why would the killer go to all that trouble? Why not just kill them and then dump their bodies in the river and be done with it? But mainly what is the evidence that this occurred as opposed to it all just being an unfortunate accident? Why would the killer bleach the bones? Why would the killer leave the foot in the shoe and why would the killer even think any of the bones were going to be recovered that long after the fact? How long do you think the killer waited to disperse the bones and to set the backpack out? Did they have the bodies the entire time? Why not just find a way to get rid of the bodies so that there's no trace of the crime? Also why not just get rid of the backpack as well? Plenty of places to do that in the jungle. But you're saying they wanted these things to be found and I'm asking you what evidence there is for that. There really is none it's just an assumption. It's just an opinion. Just like it's my opinion that it was an accident. I can't really back it up any more than you can but I'm still open to the idea that it wasn't. It seems like a lot of other people are just thoroughly convinced that someone did this and then made it look like an accident which I don't even think this is how you would go about it if you were going to do that.
@@Shacktown110 "Why not just kill them and then dump their bodies in the river and be done with it?"
Because in that case the police MUST start a murder case which will cause a lot of trouble and searching going on.
As the killers are gang members and quite smart it was their decision from the very start to make it look like the girls got lost. They hoped that the police search would stop soon and in that respect they have been right because they know the police there.... What they did NOT expect was that the family and their helpers went on searching and were still quite nosy as they did not find any sign of life. They simply did not want to leave until they got something. This was not pleasant for the crime syndicate as a lot of drug business is going on there. So they decided to place some parts so as to strengthen the lost theory and end the private search which was also successful. But as the girls did NOT get lost now there are plenty things that does not make sense and look weird.
- pic 509 was deleted without a memory gap on the SD card. This is only possible with a PC or with the camera right after the pic is taken. But Lisanne did not delete pics before.
- the food and red insole that was found in a cave 23 km away...
- the deaths of several men soon after which had connections to a) the swimming photo and b) the pharmacy where the girls went to AFTER their hike and c) a local gang
- No messages left on the mobiles or other pics with the camera (because there was no time for it as they were captured)
- even the families of K and L confirmed it is not possible to get lost there. You can even see Boquete from top. And IF you get lost after some time someone will hear you...because this is not an empty area, the pianista trail is being hiked almost every day and locals live nearby. In the first week search teams were around and did not find anything.
- After a full week without any "action" suddenly there are night pics with no sign of life but which show strange details such as Kris clean hair (and some bones and cuts below the hair if you look closer).
- There are only wrong pin entries after 3 days...
- Some bones of Kris look like being bleached and there was phosphorus on them (which is used by farmers...). The bones of Lisanne still had rather fresh flesh attached. Both cases are not probable if lost in the jungle. Very probable if stored in a bag or treated with chemicals.
- The bones which were found (at places where F. told to search...) were placed upstream the river where the the backpack was found but also downstream....
- No other bones (especially larger parts) have been found later on (and they never will because they are hidden and probably show signs of cutting etc.).
- The electronic devices in the backpack (proper condition...) were in smaller plastic bags (which for example tourguides use so as to avoid water damage)...
- The pharmacy video was also deleted....
- The taxi driver who brought the girls to the start of the hike also died
- The last trial to log in on the phone was on 11th (!) April...three days AFTER the night pics. What happened in the meantime?
- Tourguide F is a liar. He lied to Kris parents when asked if there are other (secret) trails back from the mirador although he knows better. He also threatened locals not to talk about the case. And in an early interview (Dutch TV) he claimed to have seen the girls mobiles in the room...where he straight went into the other day just because of an appointment with the girls that no one can confirm. He is always present and around and plays the helpful guy but this might be a way to control what is going on.
....I can go on and on ....there are FAR MORE hints at foul play. The lost theory can not explain these strange details at all. They only make sense in a murder case.
If government corruption played a role in the investigation. Who knows what facts are really true or not. The police could be working with the criminals. They could of been paid more not to do a good investigation.
It also possible they didn't do much and are not being accountable. They jusy didn't have any ambition. You will see this with some police investigations worldwide. The police just want smooth sailing without having to put the effort in if the day is the same at the end of the week.
This is why people spend money on private investigators who have more ambition.
Even if the police did a crappy investigation it still doesn't mean they was murdered.
I have always thought it was a combination of both that someone to advantage of the opportunity. It also possible they fell while being chased. So they either got away or was let go and fell to death escaping at night.
I made it through the entire video….excellent points you make. I still have the glasses outside in the hot sun, rain and wind……..no change in color. I think they’ve been out there for three, four weeks now and there is no bleaching and change of color yet.
As of may 2022, 400 people have gone missing in the Panama in the last 12 months. insane!!
😳
I believe that they were tricked and kidnapped by someone the same day they went to that path but then managed to escape. It was after their escape that someone could have killed them or left them to die. This is the only explanation I give myself to make sense of the photos taken at night. The position suggests that they were taken while lying down. Then the battery couldn't last that long. Maybe they had a second battery... This is also strange but it is certainly very unlikely that someone would take photos for 3 hours in a row in the rain, even in a forest and during the night. Unless there is some tunnel that connects some Narcos places that produce drugs to resell during the night... Maybe they heard something, found them and killed them. Or this happened later.
The bird was saying, excuse me! I was just saying hi! Don’t need to roast me! 😂
If we take these April 8th images as 'genuine' then One interesting feature to these photographs is that they are mostly all taken facing one direction, and indeed if you think on the orientation even the SoS display is facing that same direction, you speculated with a convincing argument elsewhere that these photographs may well have been taken with the photographer lieing down, perhaps with Kris laying on her for comfort, and this may be a clear reason for Lisanne only having a limited movement and therefore a limited range to shoot in. But the SoS display seems to indicate that the hopes for rescue come from that _one_ direction upwards of that rockface and what appears to be a slope looking upwards.
This is a little puzzling. But we must also accept that the limited perspective o the 90 images don't give us a full enough picture of the area they are taken in, some of the geography is pure guesswork or assumptions being made, and yet what the SoS display and rockface suggest is that both friends are wedged in between rocks, sheltered perhaps, and they have some hopes of the SoS display attracting attention from above.
But the questions are various, and significant - how are they surviving the long nights of exposure and almost certain hypothermia? If one is injured or sick, and has been for some time, why is this crisis and growing desperation not reflected on the phone logs? Where can they be out there if no one found a single trace of them, and to this day they simply dropped off the face of the earth on that April afternoon?
None of it quite makes sense.
Do you think it's worth speculating about the girls' mental state at this time? Lost in a very alien environment for which they are hopelessly dressed. No tent or sleeping bags. Hardly any food or water. Several days have gone by with no sign of rescue. Struggling against hypothermia during the nights. Struggling to sleep in the terrifying blackness of the night with the constant sounds of animals they cannot see. Perhaps one or both of them are injured, or ill. Eventually any hope they have disappears and they're facing imminent death. I would have thought that this constant intense fear and anxiety over a period of days could well have pushed them into a kind of delirium in which they lose contact with reality. Then there's an electrical storm and a girl's response to the lightning is to flash back. It has no meaning. The photos have no meaning.
A white British man totally vanished from the city there and he was a tourist . The man was young and very healthy looking and never no trace of him . Maybe he was taken for organs .
Peopke ask why didn't they make a video for there parents to let them know what happened. I think they thought they were gonna be found but succumbed to the elements. Also delirium had set in. When that happens your brain shuts down. Last thing they are gonna think to do is leave message. So sad.
@@TinaLoggA man got into a fight a bear and had his face ripped off and on his hike to safety he was writing text messages to his wife even though there was no signal. 2 men were caught in a fire and even though they were on the phone with 911, they made videos to their families saying goodbye.
It’s giving me headaches why not returning to the top of the Mirador. Which you know is a daily visited location and +/- 3,5 hr walk. With a broken leg you could use a stick and one of the girls that could support the other. They also couldn’t be at the location of the picture at the 8th op April which is a lot further. So they still could move themselves.
How can u return if u in captivity?
The girls could have got fed up waiting in the same place day after day : the thing that puzzles me is that the girls never tried to contact their parents or boyfriends - you would think that would be the first thing they would do. I saw a photo of the camera on you tube and it was covered in rust.
Quale?
Not only that, but they did not take photos everyday, they left no video saying goodbye to their families or friends, etc. It's very weird that two girls so "obcessed" with taking photos did not use their phones and cameras for days for that purpose.
These pics are from days after they disappeared... it's like someone else used the camera to fake one of the two was using it. Basically, to create fake evidence.
My theory :
They were murdered on April 1 somewhere at or near the Caldera Hotspring. The place where many young people and tourists want to go. I believe the Gang did it and the Dutch girls already have some kind of friendship with them. Feliciano was the father of Henry who was the gang leader. He knew how to protect his son and how to create the Pianista lost scenario . Don't bother too much if the girls had or hadn't hiked the trail. Nothing wrong there.
Feliciano's tour guide job was superficial. Deep down inside he was working with multiple cartel of drug, human and organ trafficking. He was protected and he will continue to do these evils for the rest of his life because he has no conscience.
I believe the Panama Authority and some Boquete locals knew the truth. Kris and Lisanne never arranged any tour guide service with Feliciano but they have met on March 31 at the language school.
The photoshopping theory is true.
My advice: do not go ✋
Good information on your channel re: this case, thanks for publishing. I havent seen this on other Ytube channels
I've heard it said of the area that it's **not** that remote; that there are trails surrounding the area and that it gets regular foot traffic. 11 days out of sight AND sound? How would they have not been able to get the attention of just ONE person in all that time? It's also not clear why they would have stayed in one place for so long-surely at some point, one of them would have sought help on foot when it was clear it was do or die? And what are the chances that both were injured so badly that neither could walk? Perhaps they were just so far out of their experience that they froze in place but survival instinct tends to overcome that. Did it start with them getting lost and end in murder?
The only thing that makes no sense about all of this is what the hell is the point of someone doing this? Why not just Kill them…find their remains or what’s left and call it a day?
Why put in all these variables which will make things worse.
If they wanted the money then they could have just released the bag with no camera?
All this insane photoshop expert that no one can confirm was done makes me believe the pictures are just what they are. Pictures on the camera and they took them for whatever crazy reason they did.
It not logical to enough for someone to go through this huge elaborate scam.,..unless someone can prove that one of the other 9 or so people connected to this care who were murdered was a photoshop expert then I’ll believe it
Well I guess they just got lost and the pianista is so complicated that 20 days of searching couldn't find them dead or alive! The backpack just magically appeared and Feliciano has such great eyesight he spotted the bone fragments. Panama's govt is honest and would tell the truth that Kris and Lisanne were murdered so that will attract lots of tourists to Boquette, right? You have to higher than a kite to believe the accident theory.
@@unix6805 I never said I believed it was an accident. I just don’t believe it’s some sort of elaborate scam people make it out to be. They got killed, they took fucked pictures for reasons unknown. The backpack was found early on and given to the police to try and collect 30k. That’s it. People have to remember most of this Elaborate plan was premeditated if “actually” done.no photoshopping done just re-saved pictures to lower the quality, it’s not the first time pictures were released in low quality after an investigation. The police-They also deleted one picture for a reason
Someone doing this elaborate scam wouldn’t have screwed up by erasing a picture like that and not knowing it would cause an issue. Makes no sense logically
I agree on many things:
They were trapped inside there for days. SOS and branch with red plastics were done during daytime and with purpose of being found and signal search teams.
Night pics were ONLY taken for the flash (the center of the pics concentrates around the gap in the foliage that the photographer knew from daytime)
You are so informative ❤
Why take pictures of these two sos areas at all? To send?
The red ripped pieces of bag on the sticks is a sign that one girl went in one direction and the other girl in the other direction. That's what this picture is saying!
Theory regarding the statement at 11:45ish:
You're right that the flash at night would be blinding. But if you have the same camera can you test if you're able to hold the trigger half way down to make a red light appear. I remember some old cameras used to do that for some reason. What if they weren't using the flash to see but using the half press (red or orange?) indicator light to see, and taking the picture was just a consequence of that?
This could explain the the strange angle, they were using the red light to see then pointing the camera up to avoid blinding themselves
Thanks for suggesting this. Just tried it. The light is Green! More or leas its a laser for the camera to focus. But what I found is if you hold the trigger half way down in the dark. The green light will stay on indefinitely. You don't have to take one photo to see.
@@BackpackerCoach перевод на русский нету😢коментарии
Could the picture represent a person either helping or attacking another ? ( meaning the one down on the rock is the injured one and the other one is looking over them ?) to me it could represent people too with the twigs being their arms .
Bruh who says these women were smart with survival tactics? I’m from the hood, I would legit have no clue what to do. All the, that seems odd to me this guy is saying in the video, a dumbass like me might do dumb shit like this.
Concerning The night Time photos - the girls were trying to attract attention from search helicopters etc. it was a tragic accident.
There's no guarantee that the Dutch rescue team would have seen them even if they were close by but I'm guessing that the girls were well away from the search areas anyway..!!
Maybe the girls were sinalizing at some plane... That's why all the effort made at rainy night... It is well known that in the 8th appril the rescuers flew over the region...
She used the potato chips container's tube as a reflective mirror to attract the attention of the rescue helicopter, it may be because her legs are seriously hurt or hunger and so she cannot move.
I agree with most common comments but if they were alive and they heard something unsettling they may have used the camera to see at night so to speak.
I still don't know which theory i tend to believe. what is clear to me is that the two were at least present when the night photos were taken. we can't see them completly in any picture but there is the picture of Kris hair and in another picture you can see (probably) a chin or a jawline and some hair (probably female hair). thats why i think they were present when the pictures were taken. I don't know if they took the photos by themselves but i think they were still alive. I want to know the truth so bad. the accident theory and the foul play theory both make sense to me. at the same time there are logic errors in both theories.
What’s the number of another photo where you can see the jawline or chin? I don’t remember one.
That’s news to me!
Did they ever recover the stick with red plastic and other stuff they left on the trail? Where there footprints of their boots on the trails?
NO!
@@BackpackerCoach ......ok then
I have a theory that can explain the large gap in the timing of the photos.
What if on day 1 the camera got submerged.
What if it didn't work for an entire week and then by some miracle on the 8th it turned on?
Yes, that's possible. That also could explain why the flash wasn't working properly.
I thought so
Coach, good video. You covered several points very well. I still say there is no evidence for an SOS- just an O. But we can agree to disagree on that.
Imperfect Plan released a video on UA-cam where they led viewers to believe Kris and Lisanne stayed at same spot for all photos. I think I gave you the link. Would be very interested in you making a video response on their video.
where can i find this video? Please do share with us. TY
Can you link to the video you mention?
@@nobull9541 I'm not going to do all the work for you. Perhaps put "imperfect plan" and Lisanne or Kris in search bar. Why would I help you after you insult me?
⚠️ TriggerWarning, Upsetting Conclusion 👇
I always believed these 2 red plastic things, each red thingy hanging on it's own separate twig, along with the silvery colored torn wrappings laying nearby, had a way darker and much sinister 👹 meaning!
I hope you're ready for this one 😓.. So 👇
I truly believe that what you see hanging on these twiggs are; 2 used condoms !¡!
(they're red so I assume they were most likely condoms with a fruity flavour, like strawberry taste or something)
The silvery things nearby on the rock are the wrappings these condoms were in 😒..Uhgg!
So therefore it's my believe the girls were captured and the man or more probably plural, men who had Kris & Lisanne under their control, purposely made this photograph, leaving their (cryptic) signature behind, but really are telling us what happend to them, at the same time mocking 😑 the entire situation, showing their total disrespect/disregard for human life, through this 1 picture!!!
▪︎If you zoom in a bit closer in that picture, you can see it not thick plastic, to me it has the tell-tale texture of a condoms and on the silver torn wrappings, you can see that there is lettering on it, probably from a brand but unfortunately it's not clear enough to be readable 🧐
I'm dutch, so I saw it happen live on tv, the parents, talkshows, news and when the family went to panama 4 answers.
Everyone first thought they had a tragic accident, fell of a cliff, couldn't get help, had no cellservice, but when more info came forward, especially the release of the pictures...
At that moment it was clear to me something went very wrong there and the events leading to their death wasn't' because of it being their own fault, or mistake, not because of misadventure, like they both had an accident 🤨 Non of that, but much worse.
It has bothered me greatly when I came to the realisation, I was looking at 2 condoms on display, obviously on purpose 😝
Very disturbing!
So this has been my conclusion ever since, I'm surtain a 3rd party was involved and they were r*pd, m*rdered and disposed off. Peace✌Out. Thanks 2 you Sir 🙏 for taking an in-depth look into this case.
🇳🇱🌹RIP ♡ Kris & Lisanne🌹🇳🇱
I had the exact same thought looking at those "red bags," they do resemble condoms. I hate to even mention it but having been hiking, I have come across, um, "treasures" like these hung from branches at times, left behind by couples. Disgusting, yes. I wonder if there is a local brand of condom that matches the description?
That's genius. It's 99% condoms, not just plastic.
@@kevinfisher5492 Wait, so... this is a common thing? Because I have never seen condoms being exposed like this in forests. If what you are saying is real, then it is very likely these are really condoms.
They don’t look like condoms to me. If you actually zoom in on the original picture, or even in this video, the outline of how a condom’s shape should be is missing. Unless the kidnappers cut the condoms to specifically make it look like that, I don’t think that’s what they are.
Plus, think about it this way: If the kidnapper(s) knew that they were going to kill these two women, why would they bother with condoms? A condom, usually is used to prevent a pregnancy. If the victim’s destiny in the eyes of the murderer is death, then it loses all purpose. It just wouldn’t make any logical sense.
Kris red and white top has never been found. RIP girls.
Spelling out SOS in torn paper is ridiculous, because they would all blow away.
Not by the girls.
Bruh who says these women were smart with survival tactics? I’m from the hood, I would legit have no clue what to do. All the, that seems odd to me this guy is saying in the video, a dumbass like me might do dumb shit like this.
The stick with the two plastic bags tied to it are to keep flies off. You spin /twist the stick in your hand and the bags spin like a propeller
Keep your trap shut in the future. No one needs stupid input like this...
The flash photos at night are to signal the rescue helicopters they heard. The searchers were looking for them while they were still alive
No helicopter was out in the night....
6:39 - It is not a mirror, it is the potato crisp tube, they have one potato crisp product bottle-like container in another photo inside their room , but did they use it to reflect the light to arouse the potational searching helicopter's attention for rescue?
Potational?!? 😳😮😮
After seeing the original pictures which you’re the only person i’ve seen show the original ones definitely doesn’t add up, also why wouldn’t they take pictures of themselves to show they’re injured or anything, why wouldn’t they have pictures of one another if ones unconscious. I’m not saying this is true but it’s a theory that it was a 3rd party which were taking pictures for some odd reason.
Great video BTW ❤
It's possible one girl was flashing to notify the other where she was. Like if they got separated and one had to hide in this cave, the flash would be a beacon.
That sounds risky though, because that would have also attracted whatever else was out there
I could be wrong but when I first looked into this case I thought the same thing the narrarator said that the person ripped up tiny pieces off a larger red plastic bag but later on again while looking into this case I read an article that said the red plastic pecies where actually candy or cough drop wrappers and not ripped from a larger bag... that the cough/candy wrappers where actually found in the girls room and match this picture... does anyone have the correct information on this or a link where you can go through and see the list of what was found in the search of their rooms and the bag after?
Interesting, but the red bag things don't look that small either. In the girls room there is a red bag I think. It is just really hard to tell the scale in this photo.
@@BackpackerCoach thank you! There are so many inconsistencies on this case. Your photo line ups and conclusions are awesome. Thank you for the very well thought out and insightful content!
@@BackpackerCoach
People have been saying that the red pieces of plastic are actually two used CONDOMS!
I guess the perpetrators left the signs are their “victory” and a mockery on these photos!
Those are condoms. They were raped and got their organs harvested.
They could have been very disoriented from exposure and doing odd things at this point like taking pictures in the rain
Poor girl made it to the summit 😢 and beyond and still made it back they were taken by a gang with a red van / truck that took them off plus the water in the river kremers family walked with guides they were drinking out of the water 💧 thats my thoery
Hi . I have followed this mystery of Kris Kramer and Lisanne F for many years. Their are many u tuBe channels / videos showing the night pictures. Almost all the pictures of Kris Kramers ( the hair photo) don’t show the very top of photo. Please look at fellow u TuBer , @ You Don’t fool me’ . On this channel is the whole night picture of Kris Kramers hair. On that channel look at 5:08 to 5:10. Look at the left at the very top of photo just left of Kris Kramers hair you can see a man in the background. You have to blow up the picture and look closely but to me that is clearly a man standing their facing the camera. I don’t know if anyone has ever brought this up before so please take a look . Please comment……. I typed in…. You don’t fool me Kris and Lisanne ….. and it was the first video. Please look at 5:10 in video . Kris K hair very top of photo immediately left of her hair
There is nothing there! I have enlarged it, Lighted it. and looked at it very close. There is nothing there!
@@BackpackerCoach ok you specifically went to the video of u Tuber You don’t fool me I’m assuming. It’s the only video I’ve seen that has the whole picture of Kris Kramers hair. As you see the hair pictures at first they appear light in color around 5:07 and at 5:10 the hair picture looks brighter. Use that picture. As if reading a book from left to right go to top of picture and zoom in on dark area on left side closest to where hair is pretty concentrated. Again this is the only u TUbe picture that I found that shows the top portion of hair picture. You will see a man’s face clear as day , what appears to be a reddish shirt he’s wearing facing the camera. I blew up the picture on my phone and showed it to co workers without giving them any information whatsoever and asked them to tell me what they saw , and they said “a person standing their.” Once you see him you’ll see him every time but again it was Only on that you TuBe channel , “you don’t fool me’.. and remember the video shows the hair pictures and suddenly at the 5:10 mark it gets brighter. Use that picture and blow it up. You will see him. It’s faint and hard to see at first but once you see him you know it’s clearly a man standing their in background.
@@RS-dd4hf First of all the photo of the hair is the same as it always has been. It is the one off of Juan's Google album. I have that photo down loaded. so I have lighted it, enlarged it. and I see nothing. But some thing I didn't notice before in that left hand corner is the hair has some blood on it. You can down load it your self here. See link below
photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOaDcK-zyudR_UXP4xNvvSpKhbEUNHFkl1cvaGaZrvkiKqkgSL0BK5mjUL2SGcDjw?key=UjkzUHpsRmtLNUc2RlphdjVTWHRZSVEySjNYS0NR
@@RS-dd4hf What youtuber is that? I searched it and there is no video.
I wonder if it's possible if someone can do a 360 of the location Juan has asserted to be the location of the night photos.
All though Juan is right about a lot of things on the L and K case. He is way off on this one. We have already proven that all the photos are in one spot. Not in multiple spots like Juan thinks. Some one has already made a 3D image of all the night photos. It helps a little to see it in 3D. But as long as you understand how the photos were taken. Looking froward to looking up nearly behind you, you get the idea.
@@BackpackerCoach My idea was that one can Google Maps panorama street view the site Juan alleges and see whether or not that that's the site. Particularly useful for a layman like me.
@@Urlocallordandsavior Well the problem with that is you can't get close enough to any part of the trails near Boquete other then a few main roads. You would have to find a over hang that no one knows about.
I believe it happened at the Lost waterfalls
its getting 7 waterfalls at pianista..
Possibly using the camera flashes as a light for flounder gigging. Locals may have found the camera and just used it. Native tribes fish with a trident. Twig with plastic is perhaps a home made lure to attract fish.Lights are possible reflections of fireflies in water.
Too bad they couldn’t find them ! How intense is that jungle jeesh ! They should have combed the jungle . Sad
Who's to say it's a plastic bag. It could be a wrapper or popped balloon!
People have been saying that the red pieces of plastic are actually two used CONDOMS!
I guess the perpetrators left the signs are their “victory” and a mockery on these photos!
In the book "Verloren in de jungle" there is an explanation of the reason for the appearance of the points of light. These are not raindrops, but dust. This explains why the stone where the branch with the plastic lies is dry.
That book was biased from the beginning. The more research that is done into the Netherlands I think you may be surprised about how much the government controls and even influences. The book, "The girl with the dragon tatoo" sheds light into it.
Kris and Lisanne were abducted or killed on April 1, 2014.
@@arnolddonaldson7129 I'm not talking about a book, but about the reason for the formation of luminous points. Where can I get the book "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo"?
@@sergeyko-ris6264 I buy all my books on Amazon. It's a tough read. It was written in Dutch and translated to English.
@@arnolddonaldson7129 Who is the author of the book?
I don't buy it. They look too much like rain drops. Why would there be so much dust. What are the girls doing dancing the jig. Maybe that is how one of them broke their leg. But seriously, Dust? It's a rain forest not the desert.
Did they have internet or not??
Of course not
They do a photo sow the screen of camera do a litle flash. That why photo have no sense and are vertical .. maybe one of the girl feel bad and other wanan help sow need flash.
Si fuera por usted el caso no avanza, tiene una ingenuidad bastante perezosa...😎
No. The camera is hand held with different angles. This isn’t a phone they’re holding. It’s a camera. Logically it follows, if they held the camera at different angles, the pictures would come out with different angles.
Also, they themselves wouldn’t have to turn over upside down, crawling to get those pictures, they could simples hold the camera different and snap.
I think they fell and were dieing, someone found them, saw their stuff, handled the camera without knowing or caring it was taking photos as they held it. Took their things and left the 2 girls to die. A rainstorm then washed their bodies or parts of it down the river. The people who took the things saw their was a reward offered and had no use for the items and gave them to authorities to try and get whatever money they could out of it.
Good theory...
This does sound good, but the only thing is how to explain that picture taken on that 7th night of what is obviously Kris' red hair.
There’s no way. There’s SO much that suggest foul play. Keep watching videos and or read the blogs.
Lo rojo no serán condones?
I think the "plastic" represent the orange color from neatherland... and there are 2 girl, the tree's branck are the form of the distance btw girls..and the white powder in ther rock or white paper is like a flag point or some neutral or bad area.
Someone said in the comments here the "plastic" is in reality condom material. They really look like condoms and they are 2, just like there were 2 girls so you know... probably someone did "that" and got rid of them :/
The night of the 8th there was a big thunder storm that night. Probably included lightning. I think in her diminished mental state Lisanne just pulled the camera out to "join in" so to say. They're seeing lighting light up the sky and the jungle. They're used to pitch black every night but now this is happening. Lighting flash.......1001, 1002, 1003...BOOM-Thunder rumble shaking the ground. Lisanne decides to pull out the camera and join in by adding her own "lightning". She times up her flash with the thunder rumble. There's a cadence that ensues. Lightning.....1001.1002.1003...BOOM/Rumble/camera flash.........Lightning ......BOOM/thunder/camera Flash. Over a three hour period she was just mimicking the storm cadence. The pictures are literally taken every 10 to 15 seconds over two to three hours. No thought or reason to "what" she was taking pictures of, just mimicking the storm. At one point Kris sits up in front of Lisanne to watch the storm. That's my theory anyway.
do you have discord? wanna show you something the night pictures they are not empty... its just not visible for you... i can show it you
Dud... How do you think I made the collage? I lightened all the images to see what is there. What I was trying to say is, If the girls were looking at the images on the camera most of them where dark. Which begs the question, if the first couple photos are too dark to see why take 99 more?
@@BackpackerCoach yes it wars dark and i think 1 light on the photos are the search light from a helicopter.. because you got some really high light point in the pictures...
wath if the only use the camera for only use the flash for getting signals to the light of an helicopter?
or wath if the use the light(thunder) for sending some SOS signals so the pictures are in this szenario incidental
.. more strange is that nobody has filming some leg or an other
what i find rather astonishing almost impossible is... really not in any of the pictures... not a single one.... you can't see legs or shoulders or a shadow... or a backlight... especially when i don't have a torch and suppose i only have a flash... i take a picture of the wound with the camera so i know if it's inflamed or not and especially what hurts there... and above all i try to write a text on my mobile phone
even if the sms is not sent due to network problems, the mobile phone records the entries...
which i also don't understand... if the camera is connected to a radio mast for a very short time, gsm data should be available because the signal was active for 2 sec.
to come back to your point ... sorry if it came across funny but my english is really bad. and on top of that i'm upset about all this reiit crap where people say ohh it was all just an accident,.... they probably both just fell into a ravine... although shortly after the two went missing, several people who were in contact with the two accidentally drowned...
The clean backpack with all their stuff and camera neatly inside makes no sense. 3 months in the jungle, a backpack wouldn't look like that. Is it possible their bodies were carried away by predators, but their stuff was in a cave, and somebody found it? Yes. But then they would have found the emergency signal and other things too. Plus the pattern of phone calls, incorrect pin codes etc, all points to fould play.
In the photo you can't see how long a tree branch actually it is, but maybe they used that tree branch and small red bags for their smartphones, to hope they can get connection to network.
Looking these video, i guess maybe they got surprise for the killer/s in the middle of the night and im thinking...he fights with the girls or one...grab her for her legs while she lays on the floor with the camera..and press the buton several times .. capturing her friends hair too. You see some pictures looks very close to the floor (or rocks)that tells that you take it laying down.. i dont know..
Qué dicen de este video donde parece que hay un rostro en una foto nocturna aproximadamente en los minutos 8:50? 👉ua-cam.com/video/YtPpkLYezCI/v-deo.html
It is just an idea, but are the red plastics not condoms with a colour ? (red) I can see a round entrance in the plastic . Why the girls had condoms with them , I have not a clue.
If those are really condoms, it would be because someone 4bus€d them. The only weird part about this theory is... r4p|sts usually do not even bother to use protection.
The photo that appears at minute 10,, 54 of the video, looks like the eyes and eyebrows of a face. taken close to the target.
No it doesn’t!