7:15 To be fair Ohtani's 9.1 war as a DH is insane to begin with, the highest season record by a DH by far, 2.2 ahead of Edgar Martinez in second place.
I would actually give the title of the best non-mvp season to 2022 shohei ohtani, which was the first season in which a player wualified as both a hitter and a pitcher, and he was a well above average hitter (.850+ ops) and placed 4th in Cy young voting (2.33 ERA in 160+ innings) and finished behind the aforementioned 2022 Aaron judge year when he hit 62 homers.
1941 Ted Williams 10.4 bWAR(Witt had 9.4 bWAR) at 22 years old, finished second to Joe Dimaggio. Ted had 11.0 fWAR in '41. Ted hit .406 in '41, but Dimaggio had his 56 game hit streak. Any voter in the '41 mvp had a tough choice. Dimaggio got 15 first place votes, Ted got 8.. but what is amazing is that the other first place vote went to.... Thornton Lee??? (Remember him? I don't) Lee was a pitcher for the White Sox who had a career year in 1941 and accumulated 9.0 bWAR, so, he was very worthy in most years... but not in 1941.
I know its a hot take but I still give the MVP to Witt. I wont get into the nitty gritty but I just feel like he was more valuable. Royals are a .500 team without him, its most VALUABLE player not best player. I know I know, Judge had a higher WAR, but Im ready to die on this hill. Witt is a complete player, and generally if an IF and OF have somewhat similar numbers, Im always giving it to the IF if they're even average defensively.
Well the MVP stopped being the most valuable player and simply who had the best season award, decades ago, they should really just rename it. But also by WAR, WRC+, and whole lot of other statistics Judge was more valuable, but Witt is one hell of a player, he's going to be great for a long time, he'll get his MVP accolades.
This has been such a great season for incredible performances. Otani, judge and Bobby Witt Jr have been everything and then some. It just really sucks for my man Jose Ramirez because there are quite a few years in the last 10 to 15 years where Jose Ramirez would win the MVP. I've had the absolute honor of being a Guardians fan and watching that man play baseball. He truly is incredible. He is the heartbeat of the Guardians and he deserves to have an MVP someday. His play has earned it.
_inb4 Mets fans ask about Lindor_ The thing with the awards is that there are a lot more teams (and therefore starting players) now than there were 70+ years ago when awards seem to have "gained" their importance. At least Bobby Witt Jr. can say he put up the most valuable season in Royals history to-date.
So you’re not gonna put the best season we’ve ever seen from a right handed hitter (statistically proven) over players you’ve never seen who played before integration? Nice.
The most wild thing is this video is calling mr no knees a future hall o famer. Its too early to tell until we see how he can perform off two season ending injuries
I don't think you understand how WAR works. The fact Shohei was barely behind Bobby as a DESIGNATED HITTER is insane. That hurts your point, not helps it. If shohei pitched or played the outfield, his war would obliterate boby;s.
Yeah but he didnt, so even though I agree, thats just speculation. End of the day Bobby got a higher WAR for doing more for his team. What ifs shouldnt be implemented.
Yes, the hypothetical fully healthy Shohei Ohtani season would have been more valuable than Witt's, but at the end of the day it is just a hypothetical. Witt's season was more valuable in 2024
@@Wilyticssaying “bobby witt was more valuable than shohei ohtani” is a factual statement but it bolsters Ohtani’s case if anything. Would Witt win the MVP if he was in the NL? Of course. But the fact that Ohtani was worth merely 1.3 less wins than Witt despite having the gap in defensive value needs to be talked about. If you look at bWAR, that gap narrows to 0.2. I only introduce bWAR to highlight that Ohtani’s -16 positional adjustment for being a DH and his -1.7 dWAR (compared to Witt’s +10 positional adjustment and 1.2 dWAR) is offset by his offensive contributions. If it weren’t for that Aaron Judge guy, Ohtani would’ve led all of MLB in a number of categories.
100% understand the Judge argument. Not saying I don’t. However… Witt literally does everything other than hit for power better than him. Literally everything. And did everything other than hit more home runs better than him this year. Again, I get the argument for Judge completely. I might even join that camp. Dude raked and drove and runs. But I definitely think the better offensive season belong to Bobby Witt Jr. Then add in the defense…
Isn't Witt the first player ever to accomplish the following: a batting title, 200+ hits, 40+ doubles, 10+ triples, 30+ homeruns, 30+ stolen bases, 100+ runs/rbi, a gold glove and a silver slugger ???
The thing with judge is that the Yankees would have done decent without him but the royals would have sucked without Bobby so I think Bobby is more deserving of MVP
I would say Big Mac's 70 homer season and not winning a MVP is more glaring. Witt will eventually win one because he is just starting his prime and barring injury will have many more great seasons.
I'm sorry, but I will excuse both Kansas City journalists for voting Witt to make this not unanimous. Witt plays both sides of the ball. Judge plays one side a little better and one side significantly worse. Not to mention in high leverage situations Bobby took his game to an even higher level while Judge's game reverted a little closer to league average. About a month ago while Francisco Lindor's fWAR was higher than Ohtani's people were still calling Ohtani the MVP. Now that Ohtani has run away with the fWAR statistic, I still see some fans who would give it to Lindor on the simple basis that he plays both sides of the ball. My main gripe with the whole dialogue around the award this season is that Witt was never going to have a shot. 2 months ago when his fWAR overtook Judge's briefly, it was not even a discussion that Judge would be MVP. "But the home runs!!", Yankee fans cried out in unison. Now that Judge has fallen short of the 60 HR mark that many thought he would get to, but his fWAR is clear of Bobby's, we have reverted to acting like fWAR is the end all be all. And I think we all know damn well the only reason for this is that one plays for the biggest MLB team and the other plays for a small-ish market team.
wRC+ normalizes the value so that 100 is league average for that given year. Depending on the year, the offensive environment could be a lot different. wRC+ allows us to easily control for that. For example, in 2019 the balls were “juiced” so the average hitter was producing a lot more than the average hitter in 2024. A hitter who produced the same in 2019 and 2024 would be more valuable in 2024 since hitting overall was much harder to come by. This would be reflected in wRC+, but not in wRC.
I love your videos my guy but there were a few moments where you made some small reaches and left some important context out. Kinda felt like narrative ball a little bit not that it’s a horrible thing but feels like this could’ve used another review. It was a great season and in many years would’ve been the mvp favorite but not necessarily an all time great season, that phrase seems a bit overused. That makes it sound like a top ten season of all time when I’m not sure that’s exactly the case. Fantastic season though and you’ve put out great videos. Can’t wait to see you continue to grow. All love.
bWAR is not “normal war”, there is no normal war. There are 2 types of war which specialize in different things. fWAR is better for position players to take into account full value while bWAR is better for pitchers.
1. the mvp has nothing to do with the team record 2. the Yankees absolutely do NOT make it to the playoffs without judge and I say this as a yankees fan
7:15 To be fair Ohtani's 9.1 war as a DH is insane to begin with, the highest season record by a DH by far, 2.2 ahead of Edgar Martinez in second place.
Ozuna put up 4.3 WAR this year, almost double Martinez' 2.2.
@@jbryant5253 lol no he's saying shohei's 9.1 was 2.2 ahead of second place. so martinez's was 6.9, not 2.2 lmao
@@buklau6953youre talking to a braves fan, reading comprehension isnt their strong suit
@@buklau6953 Oh, I'm really tired lol
The only reason he was lower is because the penalty for DH is extremely high
I would actually give the title of the best non-mvp season to 2022 shohei ohtani, which was the first season in which a player wualified as both a hitter and a pitcher, and he was a well above average hitter (.850+ ops) and placed 4th in Cy young voting (2.33 ERA in 160+ innings) and finished behind the aforementioned 2022 Aaron judge year when he hit 62 homers.
Remember he is not white , black nor American. Murican don't like that .
Judge just taking vengeance for Altuve’s robbery
1941 Ted Williams 10.4 bWAR(Witt had 9.4 bWAR) at 22 years old, finished second to Joe Dimaggio. Ted had 11.0 fWAR in '41. Ted hit .406 in '41, but Dimaggio had his 56 game hit streak. Any voter in the '41 mvp had a tough choice. Dimaggio got 15 first place votes, Ted got 8.. but what is amazing is that the other first place vote went to.... Thornton Lee??? (Remember him? I don't) Lee was a pitcher for the White Sox who had a career year in 1941 and accumulated 9.0 bWAR, so, he was very worthy in most years... but not in 1941.
Yeah Witt was great, but Ima still go with Ted Williams hitting .406 and not winning MVP
I know its a hot take but I still give the MVP to Witt. I wont get into the nitty gritty but I just feel like he was more valuable. Royals are a .500 team without him, its most VALUABLE player not best player. I know I know, Judge had a higher WAR, but Im ready to die on this hill. Witt is a complete player, and generally if an IF and OF have somewhat similar numbers, Im always giving it to the IF if they're even average defensively.
Well the MVP stopped being the most valuable player and simply who had the best season award, decades ago, they should really just rename it. But also by WAR, WRC+, and whole lot of other statistics Judge was more valuable, but Witt is one hell of a player, he's going to be great for a long time, he'll get his MVP accolades.
This has been such a great season for incredible performances. Otani, judge and Bobby Witt Jr have been everything and then some. It just really sucks for my man Jose Ramirez because there are quite a few years in the last 10 to 15 years where Jose Ramirez would win the MVP. I've had the absolute honor of being a Guardians fan and watching that man play baseball. He truly is incredible. He is the heartbeat of the Guardians and he deserves to have an MVP someday. His play has earned it.
“Best non-MVP season ever”
‘21 Ruth, ‘34 Gehrig and like 3 Ted Williams seasons have entered the chat…
A bunch more too tbh his whole argument is based off of WAR
Ted Williams is the name I think of, but yeah every year there’s a guy.
Mike trout the year miggy hit the triple crown as well
@@JakeGraham-r6r and another one.
There wasn’t even an MVP award in 1921
_inb4 Mets fans ask about Lindor_
The thing with the awards is that there are a lot more teams (and therefore starting players) now than there were 70+ years ago when awards seem to have "gained" their importance. At least Bobby Witt Jr. can say he put up the most valuable season in Royals history to-date.
Jram quietly having a 39/39 season
*39/41
Jram will always be the most underrated player in the league. He's been doing this for so long
Witt deserves some MVP consideration....plus, I'm not putting Judge's season above some of the prime Ruth, Gehrig, Ted Williams etc seasons
So you’re not gonna put the best season we’ve ever seen from a right handed hitter (statistically proven) over players you’ve never seen who played before integration?
Nice.
they were hitting meatballs. judge is batting .95 in their era
The most wild thing is this video is calling mr no knees a future hall o famer. Its too early to tell until we see how he can perform off two season ending injuries
Not really that far, as Mr. no knee is only 26 years old and has produce comparable result to Harper in that age
A lot of Bobby Witt’s numbers were put up against the historically bad White Sox.
Same for every team
@@JerseyJayHawk no not everyone plays in the AL Central.
A lot of Aaron’s judge’s numbers were put up in the historically small matchbox ballpark he plays in
@@kolsenpapon779 I agree. Both he and Bobby Witt are overrated.
@@milesnexusicon9635 that is a hot take lol. I think both are incredible. But put Judge in Kauffman, and Witt in Yankee stadium and Witt wins MVP easy
Ted Williams has the best non MVP season of all time. But this is also a good one.
great video man!
I don't think you understand how WAR works. The fact Shohei was barely behind Bobby as a DESIGNATED HITTER is insane. That hurts your point, not helps it. If shohei pitched or played the outfield, his war would obliterate boby;s.
Right. If you're going to compare WAR with a DH, you need to break down the the WAR into offensive and defensive.
Yeah but he didnt, so even though I agree, thats just speculation. End of the day Bobby got a higher WAR for doing more for his team. What ifs shouldnt be implemented.
Yes, the hypothetical fully healthy Shohei Ohtani season would have been more valuable than Witt's, but at the end of the day it is just a hypothetical. Witt's season was more valuable in 2024
@@Wilyticssaying “bobby witt was more valuable than shohei ohtani” is a factual statement but it bolsters Ohtani’s case if anything. Would Witt win the MVP if he was in the NL? Of course. But the fact that Ohtani was worth merely 1.3 less wins than Witt despite having the gap in defensive value needs to be talked about.
If you look at bWAR, that gap narrows to 0.2. I only introduce bWAR to highlight that Ohtani’s -16 positional adjustment for being a DH and his -1.7 dWAR (compared to Witt’s +10 positional adjustment and 1.2 dWAR) is offset by his offensive contributions. If it weren’t for that Aaron Judge guy, Ohtani would’ve led all of MLB in a number of categories.
Witt is pretty much a SS version of Trout
Possibly a tier above. Trout was only an elite defender his rookie year. He's had several negative DRS/OAA seasons since then
Ted Williams had like 4 season he should have won mvp, he hit 400 and didn't even win
100% understand the Judge argument. Not saying I don’t.
However… Witt literally does everything other than hit for power better than him. Literally everything. And did everything other than hit more home runs better than him this year.
Again, I get the argument for Judge completely. I might even join that camp. Dude raked and drove and runs. But I definitely think the better offensive season belong to Bobby Witt Jr. Then add in the defense…
Isn't Witt the first player ever to accomplish the following: a batting title, 200+ hits, 40+ doubles, 10+ triples, 30+ homeruns, 30+ stolen bases, 100+ runs/rbi, a gold glove and a silver slugger ???
The thing with judge is that the Yankees would have done decent without him but the royals would have sucked without Bobby so I think Bobby is more deserving of MVP
I would say Big Mac's 70 homer season and not winning a MVP is more glaring. Witt will eventually win one because he is just starting his prime and barring injury will have many more great seasons.
4:25 lindor is a joke man, he's featured 5 times in the list 😂
I'm sorry, but I will excuse both Kansas City journalists for voting Witt to make this not unanimous. Witt plays both sides of the ball. Judge plays one side a little better and one side significantly worse. Not to mention in high leverage situations Bobby took his game to an even higher level while Judge's game reverted a little closer to league average.
About a month ago while Francisco Lindor's fWAR was higher than Ohtani's people were still calling Ohtani the MVP. Now that Ohtani has run away with the fWAR statistic, I still see some fans who would give it to Lindor on the simple basis that he plays both sides of the ball.
My main gripe with the whole dialogue around the award this season is that Witt was never going to have a shot. 2 months ago when his fWAR overtook Judge's briefly, it was not even a discussion that Judge would be MVP. "But the home runs!!", Yankee fans cried out in unison. Now that Judge has fallen short of the 60 HR mark that many thought he would get to, but his fWAR is clear of Bobby's, we have reverted to acting like fWAR is the end all be all. And I think we all know damn well the only reason for this is that one plays for the biggest MLB team and the other plays for a small-ish market team.
Ohtani in 2022 is the greatest non mvp season and it’s not even close. Trouts rookie year id also put ahead of Witt
What about Ohtani’s 2022 season when he came second to Judge’s 62 homer season
David wright 2007 gotta be up there
I don't understand why we use wRC+ as opposed to wRC when comparing people across seasons, can someone explain why?
wRC+ normalizes the value so that 100 is league average for that given year. Depending on the year, the offensive environment could be a lot different. wRC+ allows us to easily control for that.
For example, in 2019 the balls were “juiced” so the average hitter was producing a lot more than the average hitter in 2024. A hitter who produced the same in 2019 and 2024 would be more valuable in 2024 since hitting overall was much harder to come by. This would be reflected in wRC+, but not in wRC.
@@Wilytics Is that just because of differences in the ball year to year? What else could change year to year?
They both had great seasons but I wouldn't say either is anywhere close to the best season ever
Imo the biggest mvp snub is mark in 1998
I love your videos my guy but there were a few moments where you made some small reaches and left some important context out. Kinda felt like narrative ball a little bit not that it’s a horrible thing but feels like this could’ve used another review. It was a great season and in many years would’ve been the mvp favorite but not necessarily an all time great season, that phrase seems a bit overused. That makes it sound like a top ten season of all time when I’m not sure that’s exactly the case. Fantastic season though and you’ve put out great videos. Can’t wait to see you continue to grow. All love.
why reupload?
copyright (MLB doesn't want people to grow their game)
BRO REALLY RE UPLOADED IT
Re-uploaded what?
@@ZyR0708 this vid I watched it when he just released it and re uploaded it after ten
Goat
The new Jr
Just beat judges team and get that revenge Bobby
Now they've both shown they choke in the playoffs
Ted Williams hit .406 and didn't get the MVP.
F war accounts fielding more so I recommend using normal war or bwar regardless amazing video
bWAR is not “normal war”, there is no normal war. There are 2 types of war which specialize in different things. fWAR is better for position players to take into account full value while bWAR is better for pitchers.
Barry Bonds exists, and he was in fact the greatest player in the history of MLB. There's nothing more cringe than "baseball snobs".
Not even close to the greatest. Hit .250 in the playoffs and won nothing
@@nickpeitchev7763 LOL, his 7 MVP awards say hi!
@Narniak69 clemens won 7 golden gloves and an MVP and no one considers him the goat pitcher.
@@Narniak69 who cares about 7 MVPs if you're a serial playoff choker?? Look at his playoff stats they're disgusting
Im not putting Bonds ahead of Ruth, Gehrig, T.Williams, Mays, Aaron
Bobby deserves MVP more than Judge
Yes but a 1:100 ops is the best in terms of stats
@@Baseball_Kid26 There's a difference between the Most Valuable Player and Best Player.
This might be the most brain dead take I’ve ever seen
@@BillyBall35???
@@BillyBall35there’s not, the best player is the most valuable, don’t overthink it
Witt should get it because without him the royals don’t make the playoffs, the Yankees make it without judge
1. the mvp has nothing to do with the team record
2. the Yankees absolutely do NOT make it to the playoffs without judge and I say this as a yankees fan